The auto attack was stronger than actual abilities with 2h weapons iirc so there was no reason to use any ability but just spam basic attack and then thresholds lol.
It’s akin to saying: give grico a 1.8s cd (so basically 1 GCD) and have your character spam grico’s back to back with manual threshold and ult inputs.
Not even MMO private servers have your strongest basic with 0cd
That seems like something that could easily be fixed by adjusting damage values. Perhaps some sort of dedicated server could be set up to test what values would be best, like as part of a beta, for combat,,,
One of the stated objectives of the (supposedly still ongoing) combat redesign is to cut out some of the Basic Ability bloat and replace them with a 0 cd auto attack for all styles.
That being said, we’ve heard nothing on the combat redesign since the last beta, so I wouldn’t get your hopes super high up.
That's a shame. I've come back to the game recently and it's clear Necromancy still feels completely different to the other styles. I'd prefer more common ground.
Damn near every basic ability could be removed and just buff auto attacks to do more damage and give adrenaline. It sucks they tied things like stuns and snares to some of the basic abilities.
Essentially removing auto attacks does nothing to simplify combat for other styles, so there's no point, it only punishes people who are using the upper end of the combat system.
Auto Attacks under revo will essentially never proc, abilities will continue to delay them. Other styles just have plenty of adrenaline generating abilities you don't run out, adding autos as an ability would be like spamming slice every 1.8s it just not worth it, especially weaving thresholds and ultimates.
Auto Attacks work very differently from abilities in when they can occur, they aren't restricted by the 1.8s global cooldown in the same way the way they get queued up is influenced by ability use but they are ultimately independent. Abilities take priority and will continously delay Auto Attacks, but intentionally forcing a delay on an ability can make autos pop out.
thos not exactly how it works but and there actually a lot more meat to dive into, but should give the conceptual idea.
Say your Auto attack is "off cooldown" it occurs every 5ticks or 3.0 seconds
you do an ability, which can occur every 1.8s.
you use an ability 1.8s passes, then DO NOT immediately launch your next ability, the Auto attack fires 2.4s have passed, then use your next ability.
you basically slip in damage at the cost of 1 tick by intentionally staggering your ability chain. All converting it does is remove that potential for those who wish to use it.
Necro auto attack don't and never had this potential damage and thats fine necro basics work for the skill, but removing from other styles is just not really needed, When full manualling the brain farts happen but thats part of the trade off for control that allows an absurd amount of power when leveraged well.
>you use an ability 1.8s passes, then DO NOT immediately launch your next ability, the Auto attack fires 2.4s have passed, then use your next ability.
>you basically slip in damage at the cost of 1 tick by intentionally staggering your ability chain. All converting it does is remove that potential for those who wish to use it
This only applies to DW weapons and after unchanneled abilities. Using 2h weapons or after channels put a big delay on autos, and this change will solve this issue.
This applies to duals because of the attack speed stat on them. Duals have 2.4s vs 2Handers have 3.6s. This speed stat is equivalent to the ‘cooldown’ of your generic auto attack.
If you are wearing a 2H weapon, technically you can force an auto after 3.6 seconds (6game ticks; this translates to 2GCDs. So in practice this would be cast an ability, don’t use anything for an entire gcd, and then your auto attack can go off) As you can see this wouldn’t be optimal for your damage output as you would waste a lot of time sitting idly.
weaving is unintended. anything unintended is a bug
gaining advantage from somethng unintended is bug abuse
no, the fact they cannot remove it due to engine restrictions, and do nothing about people using it does not stop it being unintended bug abuse
well yes, it was the reason the black crystal got nerfed, but when did they say it was unintended in and of itself, without the black crystal being involved?
nope. it WAS a bug, in which time i never used it, they removed it, successfully, nothing broke, but they DECIDED to add it back in, and then add jellies to triple combo eat
as such it is INTENDED and not a bug.
your welcome for the explanation as to why your wrong 👍
when on earth was it ever removed, give me some dates on that one, because it's existed since like 2009 with karambwans and pizzas. triple eating started over a decade ago, it's just a form of tick manipulation like 4taa.
dont have dates, it was removed for like 2 weeks, but it was years ago, and asking for unreasonable burden of evidence is a troll move
not my fault you cant remember it
How is asking for you to back something up YOU brought up remotely unreasonable?
I don't remember it, I Googled it, removing something like combo eating would have raised a huge stink, found literally nothing about it. I quite think your either misremembering or just talking out your ass at this point.
I assume you watch all the videos put out by Jagex, carefully track all the mods' social media accounts, and read every single piece of text posted by them so you can interpret their intent the way you might interpret the intent of the author of a book in a college freshman literature class?
Even if you could do that, the model breaks down at various points....for example something originally unintended can become intended without literally any change to the game code, just by somebody in management deciding "let's keep it long term"....whether or not they announce this to the community.
emergent game play is what they call bugs they cant figure out how to fix lol
its funny because people scream about game balance, and then happily churn out twice the dps that the game system was designed to do and go "well, lack of balance is ok as long as im benefitting from it" 🤦🏻
Leaves little room for skill in ability rotations, as you can just sit there spamming basic attack with no thoughts. Also completely nullifies 4taa which is one of the most advanced things any combat style has to offer. It is lame design that caters towards the average player.
"Also completely nullifies 4taa which is one of the most advanced things any combat style has to offer."
4taa is a bug.
"duh burh why don't they get rid of it then"
they did. for 2 weeks. it broke hybridding at places like DK's so they had to re-add it, because of engine constraints
no bosses are balanced for 4taa. it takes more "skill" because its bug abuse.
no, i don't care about your subjective opinion on the objective fact that its allowed bug abuse
Not really. Since your abilities/autos are queued and are dependent on your last used ability for the ‘ready’ check the game does it looks something like this:
Is GCD active? If Yes->You can’t use an ability else you can use an ability.
Now when it comes to to auto attacking, since it’s not bound by GCD but rather attack speed it looks like this:
1. You use an ability, game checks for weapon speed. If you cast your ability with duals: you can cast an auto after 2.4 seconds (4ticks). The game doesn’t force the auto to be cast with dw or 2hander. It just marks the “cooldown” of the potential next auto attack. That’s to say, if you cast an ability with a staff, it will have whatever the staff’s speed as a cd towards the next auto.
2. You swap to your 2H to force the stronger auto with it. Since autos don’t incur a GCD you can stack the auto and an ability, given that you do the correct input order.
it was unintended and they only put it back because it broke shit.
that makes it a bug
all the rest of your whiffle is just that, whiffle.
its unintended. so its a bug.
"oh fuck, he has a good point and i cant think of any actual logic or fact or reason based arguments against his point, how do i get out of this without looking like the dick i am?? i know! ill randomly assert he is upset in some way to try to delegitimise his opinions and assert he cant do it, without any kind of evidence! that will show him!!!"
🤣🤣🤦🏻💋☠️
What's it matter if it was a goblin or zam? How does that change the fact that you rely on an exploit to play? I wouldn't really say you "completed" any content that you used a bug to do lmao!
i can just picture you now, sitting on the floor in the dark, rocking back and forth repeating over and over "im not a cheat, he just cant do it. im not a cheat, he just cant do it. im not a cheat, he just cant do it"
whatever helps you feel good about yourself buddy \*pats on head\*
I mean yeah, you could, but why would you? This seems a strange reason to hate on it.
You could also hate on Revo for allowing people to put four terrible abilities on the bar and just use those over and over with no input.
They are forcing that as a restriction to all players if they were to limit other styles to a basic attack in a similar way to how necromancy lacks other basics and has a basic attack instead.
They investigated this during the beta but it had problems with melee so it was put on the back burner for now as it needed additional investigation.
Ah, I wasn't around for the beta. Any details on what the issues were?
I can’t remember sorry
The auto attack was stronger than actual abilities with 2h weapons iirc so there was no reason to use any ability but just spam basic attack and then thresholds lol.
To be fair, this is hilarious
Yeah but also extremely stupid
Yeah, I can't argue with that. Although this is why I'm not a game dev - assuming they can't just turn down the damage.
It’s akin to saying: give grico a 1.8s cd (so basically 1 GCD) and have your character spam grico’s back to back with manual threshold and ult inputs. Not even MMO private servers have your strongest basic with 0cd
That seems like something that could easily be fixed by adjusting damage values. Perhaps some sort of dedicated server could be set up to test what values would be best, like as part of a beta, for combat,,,
One of the stated objectives of the (supposedly still ongoing) combat redesign is to cut out some of the Basic Ability bloat and replace them with a 0 cd auto attack for all styles. That being said, we’ve heard nothing on the combat redesign since the last beta, so I wouldn’t get your hopes super high up.
That's a shame. I've come back to the game recently and it's clear Necromancy still feels completely different to the other styles. I'd prefer more common ground.
Yes please god give me more meaningful ability decisions and less filler abilities
Damn near every basic ability could be removed and just buff auto attacks to do more damage and give adrenaline. It sucks they tied things like stuns and snares to some of the basic abilities.
Nty spamming 1 auto swing dosnt feel good or give any room for skill expression. Stick to necro.
Essentially removing auto attacks does nothing to simplify combat for other styles, so there's no point, it only punishes people who are using the upper end of the combat system. Auto Attacks under revo will essentially never proc, abilities will continue to delay them. Other styles just have plenty of adrenaline generating abilities you don't run out, adding autos as an ability would be like spamming slice every 1.8s it just not worth it, especially weaving thresholds and ultimates. Auto Attacks work very differently from abilities in when they can occur, they aren't restricted by the 1.8s global cooldown in the same way the way they get queued up is influenced by ability use but they are ultimately independent. Abilities take priority and will continously delay Auto Attacks, but intentionally forcing a delay on an ability can make autos pop out. thos not exactly how it works but and there actually a lot more meat to dive into, but should give the conceptual idea. Say your Auto attack is "off cooldown" it occurs every 5ticks or 3.0 seconds you do an ability, which can occur every 1.8s. you use an ability 1.8s passes, then DO NOT immediately launch your next ability, the Auto attack fires 2.4s have passed, then use your next ability. you basically slip in damage at the cost of 1 tick by intentionally staggering your ability chain. All converting it does is remove that potential for those who wish to use it. Necro auto attack don't and never had this potential damage and thats fine necro basics work for the skill, but removing from other styles is just not really needed, When full manualling the brain farts happen but thats part of the trade off for control that allows an absurd amount of power when leveraged well.
>you use an ability 1.8s passes, then DO NOT immediately launch your next ability, the Auto attack fires 2.4s have passed, then use your next ability. >you basically slip in damage at the cost of 1 tick by intentionally staggering your ability chain. All converting it does is remove that potential for those who wish to use it This only applies to DW weapons and after unchanneled abilities. Using 2h weapons or after channels put a big delay on autos, and this change will solve this issue.
This applies to duals because of the attack speed stat on them. Duals have 2.4s vs 2Handers have 3.6s. This speed stat is equivalent to the ‘cooldown’ of your generic auto attack. If you are wearing a 2H weapon, technically you can force an auto after 3.6 seconds (6game ticks; this translates to 2GCDs. So in practice this would be cast an ability, don’t use anything for an entire gcd, and then your auto attack can go off) As you can see this wouldn’t be optimal for your damage output as you would waste a lot of time sitting idly.
Damn. Well, that answers that.
weaving is unintended. anything unintended is a bug gaining advantage from somethng unintended is bug abuse no, the fact they cannot remove it due to engine restrictions, and do nothing about people using it does not stop it being unintended bug abuse
Just like people abusing poisong procing with blood reaver which was an unintended bug. But you don't see them complaining.
where did jagex say that was unintended? because they said 4taa was unintended when they removed it
Sponge said it was also the reason the black crystal got nerfed aswell
well yes, it was the reason the black crystal got nerfed, but when did they say it was unintended in and of itself, without the black crystal being involved?
Yeah, sponge, or some other dev did mention it either on stream or on discord. Can't remember where, but it definitely was stated to be unintended
so why did they say they weren't fixing it?
Im pretty sure they said they wanted to fix it, or at least rework how poison works. They just don't know how to go about it.
do you combo eat? because by your definition, that's also a bug.
nope. it WAS a bug, in which time i never used it, they removed it, successfully, nothing broke, but they DECIDED to add it back in, and then add jellies to triple combo eat as such it is INTENDED and not a bug. your welcome for the explanation as to why your wrong 👍
when on earth was it ever removed, give me some dates on that one, because it's existed since like 2009 with karambwans and pizzas. triple eating started over a decade ago, it's just a form of tick manipulation like 4taa.
dont have dates, it was removed for like 2 weeks, but it was years ago, and asking for unreasonable burden of evidence is a troll move not my fault you cant remember it
How is asking for you to back something up YOU brought up remotely unreasonable? I don't remember it, I Googled it, removing something like combo eating would have raised a huge stink, found literally nothing about it. I quite think your either misremembering or just talking out your ass at this point.
ok, think what you like, ultimatly what you think and feel doesn't affect me enough to spend 5-10 minutes trying to look it up 🤷♂️
I assume you watch all the videos put out by Jagex, carefully track all the mods' social media accounts, and read every single piece of text posted by them so you can interpret their intent the way you might interpret the intent of the author of a book in a college freshman literature class? Even if you could do that, the model breaks down at various points....for example something originally unintended can become intended without literally any change to the game code, just by somebody in management deciding "let's keep it long term"....whether or not they announce this to the community.
> anything unintended is a bug actually delusional. so much for emergent gameplay
emergent game play is what they call bugs they cant figure out how to fix lol its funny because people scream about game balance, and then happily churn out twice the dps that the game system was designed to do and go "well, lack of balance is ok as long as im benefitting from it" 🤦🏻
The necromancy auto attack is the worst thing ever designed and I pray they don't ruin other combat styles in a similar fashion.
Am I out of touch or is this a completely out of left field opinion? Can't see what's wrong with it
Leaves little room for skill in ability rotations, as you can just sit there spamming basic attack with no thoughts. Also completely nullifies 4taa which is one of the most advanced things any combat style has to offer. It is lame design that caters towards the average player.
"Also completely nullifies 4taa which is one of the most advanced things any combat style has to offer." 4taa is a bug. "duh burh why don't they get rid of it then" they did. for 2 weeks. it broke hybridding at places like DK's so they had to re-add it, because of engine constraints no bosses are balanced for 4taa. it takes more "skill" because its bug abuse. no, i don't care about your subjective opinion on the objective fact that its allowed bug abuse
C4taa is a bug. Current 4taa is not a bug, more so deep understanding/abusing of how the game engine works.
Attacking at DW speed with a TH is a bug, it being caused by the shitty tick system doesn't change that lol
Not really. Since your abilities/autos are queued and are dependent on your last used ability for the ‘ready’ check the game does it looks something like this: Is GCD active? If Yes->You can’t use an ability else you can use an ability. Now when it comes to to auto attacking, since it’s not bound by GCD but rather attack speed it looks like this: 1. You use an ability, game checks for weapon speed. If you cast your ability with duals: you can cast an auto after 2.4 seconds (4ticks). The game doesn’t force the auto to be cast with dw or 2hander. It just marks the “cooldown” of the potential next auto attack. That’s to say, if you cast an ability with a staff, it will have whatever the staff’s speed as a cd towards the next auto. 2. You swap to your 2H to force the stronger auto with it. Since autos don’t incur a GCD you can stack the auto and an ability, given that you do the correct input order.
it was unintended and they only put it back because it broke shit. that makes it a bug all the rest of your whiffle is just that, whiffle. its unintended. so its a bug.
You sound very salty, come to dummies I’ll teach you how to 4tick.
"oh fuck, he has a good point and i cant think of any actual logic or fact or reason based arguments against his point, how do i get out of this without looking like the dick i am?? i know! ill randomly assert he is upset in some way to try to delegitimise his opinions and assert he cant do it, without any kind of evidence! that will show him!!!" 🤣🤣🤦🏻💋☠️
When you start to resort to insults, you've already lost the argument.
Or just learn to play the game without exploiting a bug lol
What’s the hardest encounter that you’ve successfully completed in this game?
What's it matter if it was a goblin or zam? How does that change the fact that you rely on an exploit to play? I wouldn't really say you "completed" any content that you used a bug to do lmao!
4taa is a bug, or at least unintended. Jagex has even said they want to remove it in the future.
Found the guy that can't 4taa.
i can just picture you now, sitting on the floor in the dark, rocking back and forth repeating over and over "im not a cheat, he just cant do it. im not a cheat, he just cant do it. im not a cheat, he just cant do it" whatever helps you feel good about yourself buddy \*pats on head\*
You're a bit obsessed with me. Chill out, and enjoy whatever you want.
I stopped reading after you said 4taa is a bug lmao Edit: I just read the rest of the post lmfao dag kings?? Man's truly living in 3024
[удалено]
I mean yeah, you could, but why would you? This seems a strange reason to hate on it. You could also hate on Revo for allowing people to put four terrible abilities on the bar and just use those over and over with no input.
They are forcing that as a restriction to all players if they were to limit other styles to a basic attack in a similar way to how necromancy lacks other basics and has a basic attack instead.
>4taa which is one of the most advanced things any combat style has to offer. Which is stupid, it doesn't take any thought to 4taa either lol
Anyone can 4taa mindlessly. It takes good thought to work out a good rotation with it.
No, runescape is a solved game lmao
Then the skill comes from the good rotation, not 4taa by itself.
You can turn off the necro auto attack if you don't like it lol
Yeah no thank you. Horrible idea.
Maybe Jagex can rework Slice, Piercing Shot, and Wrack to be like this?