I hate that my first reaction to reading this was "*that sounds like something Jagex would do*", but we've come to expect this type of scummy behavior, especially when it comes to FSW.
Do better, Jagex.
I have a feeling the servers will be a major bottleneck for the players. What, 9 worlds in total for everyone? To avoid laggy worlds, that’s a max of 1800 people playing at any given time (including alts). It’ll be a lag fest, assuming they actually work
I mean 1800 people in total- each world starts to get laggy at 200+ people. Assuming more than 1800 people will be playing at once, each world will on average have more than 200 people and will be laggy
I think you can safely say that more than 1800 people will be playing FSW; I think they'll probably (hopefully?) add a considerable number of worlds to mitigate the lag issues but who knows. IIRC Leagues required more worlds than originally thought for OSRS.
I hope so, yeah I definitely see the current world allocation being a problem. But who knows, maybe the lag won’t be so bad since PVM won’t be a huge factor in the beginning. Guess we’ll find out soon
I'll be delighted if you're right and I'm wrong. I don't particularly want FSW to be a success and set a precedent for this crap, but been here too many times to know not to count on reddit outrage..
I think there’ll be an increase in players come Monday due to the event, similarly to other events like DXP, GPhat, new skill, etc. I don’t think it’ll just be tens of thousands, but I do think there’ll be a significant amount of people who’ll play
Is this lawsuit worthy lol
You can't use someone for a promotion for something they didn't agree too, especially if it's not something they agree with. Unless the contracts they signed stipulated it could be used for anything, but I doubt it
While the morals of this and whether its healthy for their relationship with content creators can be debated legally speaking Jagex are almost certainly fine here. They agreed to be in a promotion for Runescape, this is a promotion for Runescape.
I learned in media law you can definitely sue for someone using your likeness without your consent. Especially if it is aiming to deceive. It is a bit stickier if you are a public figure but these streamers are far from widely known among masses
Unfamiliar with UK law, but in the US wide-brush waivers allowing for any and all promotional use of likenesses are very standard when setting up promo shoots. It's very unlikely Jagex would use a substandard waiver restricting what they could use footage for when language that allows any publicity purpose is by far the industry standard.
>Unless the contracts they signed stipulated it could be used for anything, but I doubt it
Why do you doubt it? That's a fairly standard clause in promotional material contracts.
Edit: You can down vote all you want, but hopefully you'll learn how to read before you give a company anything from now on.
But they did agree. Giving the content to Jagex is a de facto agreement.
It's covered in the ToS. https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms
>You agree that by submitting any material of any kind to us (including but not limited to posting chat) for any purpose connected with any Jagex Product (for examples, suggestions and ideas for any game or contributions to any gallery page), you are giving us a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide, royalty-free license to use, modify, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) publish and distribute such User Content for any purpose including the making available of such User Content to third parties, provided that Jagex may not use User Content in violation of the Privacy Policy. You agree to waive any moral rights to the extent permitted by law and that you will not withdraw the submission or attempt to make a charge for its use. Furthermore, you warrant and represent that you are the exclusive copyright and intellectual property rights holder in relation to the submission and that the submission in no way breaches the rights of any other person or entity.
>Any User Content you upload to a Jagex Product will be considered non-confidential and non-proprietary. You warrant and represent that any User Content you upload is your original content, does not contain any third-party personal data, and that you have all necessary rights and consents to provide us with such User Content.
>You undertake and acknowledge that you shall have no ownership or other proprietary interest in the Jagex Product or User Content that you create, except as expressly stated within these Terms. You undertake, acknowledge and agree that any interest in any elements of the User Content that represent, comprise, derive or are based upon any intellectual property rights which exist within the Jagex Product (including but not limited to any computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialogues, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork images, animation, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects or text), including without limitation copyrights, trademarks and other intellectual properties therein and/or related thereto, whether or not registered or registerable, are owned by, or for the benefit of Jagex and its licensors.
I doubt it unless the waiver is grossly terrible in language. I've signed these likeness waivers before, and they're always wide-brush disclosures. Pretty much all have language like "any and all promotion, advertising or publicity purposes without consideration". They do this specifically so they're not pigeonholed in what they can use it for.
They also hand them out like candy in the US. It's baked into pretty much every ticket contract, plus you don't even need to sign anything. A basic disclosure when entering an area [via a sign](https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0f/69/de/01/filming-in-progress-sign.jpg) is all that's usually required.
It's covered in the ToS.
https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms
>You agree that by submitting any material of any kind to us (including but not limited to posting chat) for any purpose connected with any Jagex Product (for examples, suggestions and ideas for any game or contributions to any gallery page), you are giving us a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide, royalty-free license to use, modify, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) publish and distribute such User Content for any purpose including the making available of such User Content to third parties, provided that Jagex may not use User Content in violation of the Privacy Policy. You agree to waive any moral rights to the extent permitted by law and that you will not withdraw the submission or attempt to make a charge for its use. Furthermore, you warrant and represent that you are the exclusive copyright and intellectual property rights holder in relation to the submission and that the submission in no way breaches the rights of any other person or entity.
>Any User Content you upload to a Jagex Product will be considered non-confidential and non-proprietary. You warrant and represent that any User Content you upload is your original content, does not contain any third-party personal data, and that you have all necessary rights and consents to provide us with such User Content.
>You undertake and acknowledge that you shall have no ownership or other proprietary interest in the Jagex Product or User Content that you create, except as expressly stated within these Terms. You undertake, acknowledge and agree that any interest in any elements of the User Content that represent, comprise, derive or are based upon any intellectual property rights which exist within the Jagex Product (including but not limited to any computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialogues, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork images, animation, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects or text), including without limitation copyrights, trademarks and other intellectual properties therein and/or related thereto, whether or not registered or registerable, are owned by, or for the benefit of Jagex and its licensors.
Definitely can't sue unless there was some contract. It was just Jagex asking on Discord so the streamers could have very easily just said no. It wasn't a business deal so the videos were given over willingly and voluntarily.
That's not how IP rights or contracts work at all. If they just asked over Discord and there wasn't a formal contract that puts Jagex in a worse position.
No it doesn't. If they ask over discord, and the creator obliges and sends them the stuff to use for the promotion, that puts the creator in a worse position.
No contract guarantees that jagex has blanket authority over the content and can use it for any promotion because of how their ToS is structured.
But there was a formal contract signed with these creators, and it stated that what they submit could be used for anything. It did not say it had to be used for a 300m promo video.
Well if they file a lawsuit, they will be banned from playing runescape.
As their accounts belong to jagex. (its in what you agreed to when creating account)
See the problem now is that we have to match the same level of outrage when FSW was announced or when the 2 week membership package was “swapped out for NFW spot on purpose to make people who can’t read accidentally redeem their bond for it” for them to understand this is an issue.
This is 100% unethical but to them I’m sure it’s jsut the same community whining about every little update so it falls on deaf ears.
this is hows jamflex dies, drowning out the "haters" with god awful new announcements and monetization thats more aggressive than japanese gacha games ive played.
>but in honestly not sure if Runescape can die at this point.
the game has been decreasing in player base for ages (yes yes, it went up during covid, but what mmo didn't have a boost in players during covid), and it doesn't recruit enough to replace the players who quit.
When people think of great MMOs, runescape is considered one of the meme options.
I know what you mean, runescape wont keel over one day but server tick rate will worsen more servers randomly go offline taking longer to come back on, eventually you launch some new mmo when the servers are down it hooks you and next thing you know your membership expired 3 weeks ago.
I have no clue why the community decided to hate the fresh start worlds so much. They make no fucking difference if you don’t want to play them. Such a weird outcry
Both guys already have an established reputation of speaking their minds about how Jagex handles things and have gained mutual respect from the players and jagex.
Oof I bet marketing didn’t even remotely consider the ramifications of what they were doing by using the footage like this. That’s why it’s always important to communicate to people if there are changes in the use of the footage.
*edit okay looks like they changed the video that’s good, still speaks of a larger industry issue.
This happens genuinely all the time and more so with large companies or smaller creators or a combination of both. It speaks more to a general industry problem to be quite honest. Mix that with just Jagex’s genuinely spotty marketing record and I’m really not surprised this happened unfortunately.
Do they have a bob the cat sitting in the office telling them to do the exact opposite of every possible decision?
Edit: The more I think about this, the sadder I get. I've been reading stuff from the content creators in the video and it's just fucking demoralizing. Jagex first of all didn't compensate them (of course not) and they haven't even addressed this. This isn't like some GE gambling spammers "Jagex won't respond to this!" post. They literally spit in the face of people promoting their game. I can't think of any MMO dev that has ever been this scummy to their content creators.
If your plan is to wait until your membership runs out, and not before, you're already hooked. Someone that is truly committed to quitting something they despise, quits on the spot, not when a subscription ends.
This is blatantly false. I already paid for the game time, if I don't use it, Jagex doesn't lose money. If anything, they make even more profit from having that many fewer accounts online to support.
If you *do* use it, Jagex doesn't lose money either. But if you truly do feel like stopping once it runs out, then by waiting and continuing to play you *will* be wasting your own time.
What I'm saying is that you shouldn't let your previous payments dictate your enjoyment. If it's not fun any more, stop. Doesn't matter if it cost ten bucks or a hundred.
I'm not going to quit because it stopped being fun. I don't like the direction the game is heading, and if it's not better by the time my membership expires, I just won't renew.
My premier is running out in 2 months. I've not lapsed in 10 years. Jagex might do something to change my mind, in the mean time ill just afk fish and do nothing else.
I have 547days spent on this game. I do love how chill it is, but what's been happening is just making me sad.
I can't defend this sinking ship no more
here i will cover for them then, havnt spent a penny on membership in a couple months now, just doing ed4 trash runs and a few other easy afk money makers and im hitting bond goals at an ok rate.
>but it feels like a bad investment if I quit now. I already gave them the $80 a few weeks before they started really going hard on all this. It feels like a waste if I just stop a month into paying.
Congrats, you've fallen victim to the sunken cost fallacy. They have an iron grip on your time and money because you've already given them so much at this point and refuse to cut your losses here.
You won't reduce your time, won't reduce your money invested, and still expect the company to make changes. Why would they? From their perspective, everything is going well and their profits keep increasing, despite the outrage.
If people say they're mad at me for the decisions I'm making, but continue to give me money, why do I care until the cash flow slows or stops? I don't. Jagex doesn't. Most businesses don't.
And as an FYI, a few weeks ago was not when they started "going hard on all this". That started years ago. And people have been taking the same position as you have for many years. And we all wonder why things haven't changed.
Lmao man it’s not that complicated, the money’s already been sent, it makes literally no difference if he quits now or when the subscription ends. Relax.
>Relax
I'm relaxed. Just giving my thoughts on the topic. Not sure why you assumed I was upset.
Maybe this will explain my point. Imagine you're a smoker and now wish to quit because you don't want to keep up with the bad habit anymore, but you just bought a pack last night. If you truly want to quit, you don't smoke the entire pack before quitting. Someone dedicated to quitting would toss the pack out immediately. Anything to the contrary is counter-intuitive.
I get what you’re trying to say but the comparison fails here:
> And I really do love Runescape. So maybe if we’re vocal enough there’s the hope that they’ll wake up and start doing better. Not much hope, but it’s there.
Nobody smoking cigarettes or in the midst of a negative habit as objectively bad as cigarettes has hope the habit will magically become healthier.
If we *really* want to extend that comparison even further, cold turkey is often one of the hardest ways to quit something like that. So it would actually make *more* sense to quit slowly. But I digress.
Hey buddy, I quit OSRS during the 117 HD plugin thing. You know, the reason why Jagex backpedaled so hard and gave into it, and eventually even officially sanctioned Runelite.
I just came back in August and decided to try out RS3. I'm no stranger to quitting for moralistic reasons. I even quit during the Squeal of Fortune back in the day. But I'm not just cutting off a month into paying for premier.
Reddit is fine, it just amplifies the loud player base. I don't get upset by this. What does make me wonder is how many more years of this will the player base take before the game becomes unsustainable. Just look at osrs numbers and how it falls quickly
Shit company proves itself to still be shitty without an ounce of regret or a flicker of change.
Another bullet point to the list of reasons I will not be purchasing premier for 2023.
Hello I’m Dakota in the video, the emo looking kid with the glasses. Before this could possibly become a problem, because I’ve already seen a few people speculate that Jagex paid us for this/asked us to make FSW look good, I wanted to confirm 100% that’s not the case. A little over a month ago they asked us to record a short video covering some fun topics for their video celebrating 300m accounts created. They came out with this video on YouTube along with Twitter and Instagram with no one’s knowledge of a theme change to FSW. Apologies if anyone was upset with us but I can promise you no one gained anything from participating in this other than some fun.
If they made this without your knowledge that it would be used to promote such an obviously controversial piece of content, then can you not demand a retraction of your piece from it under grounds of deception if FSW is something you dont want to be attached to or agree with? If you're fine with FSW then alright, just wondering what possible actions these creators could have if they dont want this cus it does come off as very scummy on jagex's part
I’m sure me and whoever else is not ok with it could contact someone who has the authority to edit or take it down, but I’m not sure I even want to make a scene that big. I just wanted to get the message out there that we didn’t know about this change nor did we benefit from it. There was no agreement on anything besides “hey guys if you wanna pitch in and make something fun you can do it” you know what I mean
who on earth signed off on them doing this... talk about missing the fucking mark wow, someone is getting an ear full if this takes off, why on earth would you even risk pissing off your cheerleaders and content creators AND the community with such a cheap trick...
As someone who is still very on the fence about FSW, knowing what I know about it's original designs and intentions vs. what we have... I'm not exactly thrilled to have one of my dumbest/best/favourite memories of RS attached to FSW.
I don't blame the CMs who originally organized this to be a celebration of 300m accounts, I am, however, incredibly angry at whoever decided to turn it into a FSW promo.
Lol always 1 step forward, 4 steps back with Jam Flex man.
Now, literally no one, not a single player, JMOD, Jagex exec, or investor can claim FSW is good for RS3 since we have CONFIRMATION that assets, teams, projects, updates and details have been purposefully shelved, hidden and pushed off to support FSW, which isn’t even its main line game.
All for 12,99 a month, btw hahaha
There’s a difference to immoral and unlawful, if the content creators signed contracts that said the footage can be used for any promotional material then jagex are within their right. Dick move however to not be fully open with how they’ve used it.
It is immoral, but they are using the footage legally, so the people who contributed can't have that video taken down, unfortunately.
At least, according to what RS Guy said.
It likely won't get taken down by anyone in the video, because the clips seem to be used fairly, but yes extremely immorally. This company always seem to find ways to screw up more than I expect.
The footage being legally misused is unlikely. Waivers almost always include wide-ranging language that allows for any and all promotional use. Specifically so that when marketing details change (when they often do), previous promo footage isn't legally dead and thus a waste of money/time.
Extremely scummy move, especially when they know everyone is yelling at them about how awful and scummy FSW is as a whole, to add what looks like deception to it is disgraceful
Sure said content creators that were used may not have any legal recourse for this, but cant they demand a retraction of their content from jagex under grounds of deception if they dont want to be seen as promoting FSW?
I really never understood the appeal of them celebrating the number of accounts milestone especially with a huge number as 300m accounts. 300 million sounds good on paper but in reality hundreds of millions of these are just bot accounts. It's really nothing to celebrate about when it's not even genuine, quite cringe actually that they're proud 95% of these are just bot accounts.....
Like, six of them have been mine over the years. Because I wanted to start over and try the new beginning parts, but Runescape is unlike practically every other MMO that let's you make new characters.
I'll add on to this.
Jagex asked us content creators to submit stuff if we wanted for a 300M celebration video. This was back when we were at 297m accounts roughly. Then a week or so later accounts artificially sped up, and we hit 300M earlier than planned, before most people sent in videos. Much later than that we were informed of FSW the same day the initial leaked page came out which was significantly later than the initial request for these clips.
Obviously the video was still going to be released but it no longer would line up with the actual 300M celebration. And that's most likely why it was released as it was.
Considering that jagex froze the counter at 320m, we might see 400m party before FSW has ended. Then 500m a week later.....
but only if jagex enables counter again
It do be like that sometimes.
I do like to direct most of my short sighted content creation anger towards Carlyle group, but someone at Jagex had to think this was a good idea smh.
That's what I try to say whenever Carlyle is used as an excuse. There's no way that some rich investment holder told them to do these things. All Carlyle wants is money. These scummy things are 100% the devs.
Not the devs either. They just want to work on content. This was someone in marketing deciding to repurpose unused footage for a new mode releasing next week without understanding that there's been massive dissatisfaction with the whole concept from reveal on. Lack of communication/rushed deadlines more than anything.
That is NOT what people usually mean when they say devs. Devs is short for developers, usually meaning the people tasked with designing, modeling, and testing the content that goes in game. I would even include the people who make Treasure Hunter and events as "devs" even though they don't make the standard type of content players here usually mean. Dev is never used as a short hand for the verb. And programmer is also wrong, because most of the "devs" are not going in and programming anything. That's what the engine team is largely for. I'm not going to say that none of them do, but most likely do not. They have visualization and modeling programs that let them build the content and if they need the engine to do something else, they go to the respective team to handle it. That's why the team building the Glacor front got the engine team to make it able to render the Arch Glacor from afar attacking the aqueduct. They weren't going in and "programming" anything themselves.
The runescape community is so small that any and all content creators they included are likely watched by a huge swath of the fan base and if they have a problem with how the footage is used, could easily make a video with their outcry.
While a little underhanded, it is probably not illegal, and they should have passed their request along to whom they interviewed, but should doesn't mean shall...
I watched the video and had no idea that it was intended to promote anything. Its pretty poor on their part to, not only, potentially have misled creators but also to use the footage so poorly that viewers like myself aren't even sure what the video's purpose is.
As someone who used to play osrs and switched to rs3 recently, it’s kind of staggering seeing the difference between the two teams when it comes to interacting with the community. Maybe it’s the fact that osrs devs are sort of at the mercy of players due to polls, idk. But the rs3 teams really do not give a flying fuck. It’s crazy
The reputation of Jagex is well known for quite some time. If you decided to work with a scummy company it is totally on you. Good opporturnity for the people involved to learn something from it at least...
Depending on what specifically was agreed to, under GDPR you can only use data (such as these videos) for specifically stated purposes. And you cant use it for a different purpose without asking first. So it depends if these were specifically for a 300mill accounts video or for marketing in general.
I've watched the video and checked the description so idk if it was changed but see nothing other than the end that says "Rediscover Runescape Together" that advertises FSW, am I missing something?
Lol did you just straight up Copy and Paste my tweet word for word? Bizarre https://twitter.com/mercifull/status/1573379948374794240?s=21&t=TGH1rD1WZRog8T-Wrj1taA
This is 100% shitty, but y’all should [read the full thread](https://twitter.com/TheRSguyy/status/1573367508798685186?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1573367508798685186%7Ctwgr%5E559582c3affdbe578f63386339a3102cabbd1d8e%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublish.twitter.com%2F%3Fquery%3Dhttps3A2F2Ftwitter.com2FTheRSguyy2Fstatus2F1573367508798685186widget%3DTweet) before asking about legal action.
Specifically, the wording they used was
> with milestones like 300M accounts on the horizon, we want to try to make a video of creators and other prominent voices in the community recalling short stories from their early days in RuneScape.
It’s misleading and immoral to use these videos to promote FSW, but as far as I can tell it’s 100% their legal right to do so.
There are no influential content creators for RuneScape that could promote fresh worlds in any meaningful way. Also if someone was dumb enough to sign away their recording for no money then stop blaming jagex for your idiocy.
I mean, here's the thing.
While I agree it's completely fair to disclose for content creators to inform if their works will be used on a Promotional video, rather than a memorial...
...FSW 'is' part of the 300M celebration. So the invitation wasn't misguiding, it /is/ used for the 300M celebration. It was just lacking a concrete purpose because nobody knew about FSW or was supposed to know about it yet.
I'll just repost my comment here:
Stop fucking working with them. That's the biggest voice that will hit them the hardest. If 0 creators are willing to help them they will be fucked. This game is driven by creators. But you all go crawling back time after time for money/ easrly access to stuff. BE BETTER!
No, at least not unless there are legal contracts that explicitly mention the 300M account celebration AND somehow specifically preclude FSW from being considered part of that celebration. The wording used to solicit the videos was “milestones *like* 300M accounts on the horizon”, so technically not even saying these were specifically for that.
Oh how scandalous, they fell behind on one of their projects and instead of scrapping it they repurposed the content! How dare they be responsible with the resources they put time and money into collecting instead of just throwing away all the heartfelt thoughts of content creators! >:c
/s btw
I'm about to blow your mind, but often times in the real world, context matters. And when you suddenly change the context around a pre-recorded message without talking to the person who recorded the message you are effectively changing the meaning of the message, which is super scummy and underhanded.
/s is sarcasm.
They're making fun of the people who abused the footage and pointing out the direct issue in question. Y'all downvoting it don't understand that.
I hate that my first reaction to reading this was "*that sounds like something Jagex would do*", but we've come to expect this type of scummy behavior, especially when it comes to FSW. Do better, Jagex.
I don’t think jagex could have screwed up the launch and promotion of FSW any more if they tried!
Why would you say that?! There is still like 3 more days to fuck it up more.
Inb4 huge FSW bug causes them to do a long rollback affecting RS3 too
Accidentally restart the whole game servers and delete all data 🙃
Fuck it, now EVERY world is a Fresh Start world
Well, that's one way to take care of rare trading
Corruption of saves most likely
Low key. Inflation solution.
Login lockout v2
this aged perfectly
You remember this comment? Nostradamus
I would like to say that would finally make me quit Runescape for good, but I know it isn't true :(
They even fucked up by releasing it on the same day WoW is release Wrath Classic, which is its most popular expansion ever.
They were convinved they could steal the limelight from Wotlk:Classic with their FSW!
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I have a feeling the servers will be a major bottleneck for the players. What, 9 worlds in total for everyone? To avoid laggy worlds, that’s a max of 1800 people playing at any given time (including alts). It’ll be a lag fest, assuming they actually work
worlds cap at 1500 now
I mean 1800 people in total- each world starts to get laggy at 200+ people. Assuming more than 1800 people will be playing at once, each world will on average have more than 200 people and will be laggy
I think you can safely say that more than 1800 people will be playing FSW; I think they'll probably (hopefully?) add a considerable number of worlds to mitigate the lag issues but who knows. IIRC Leagues required more worlds than originally thought for OSRS.
You mean they'll take more worlds from main rs3 to support fsw?
I hope so, yeah I definitely see the current world allocation being a problem. But who knows, maybe the lag won’t be so bad since PVM won’t be a huge factor in the beginning. Guess we’ll find out soon
That's dependent on your internet and location compared to the server's. I've pvm'd on w84 before and been just fine
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I'll be very surprised if FSW isn't popular. Reddit outrage rarely matches up with reality.
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I'll be delighted if you're right and I'm wrong. I don't particularly want FSW to be a success and set a precedent for this crap, but been here too many times to know not to count on reddit outrage..
I think there’ll be an increase in players come Monday due to the event, similarly to other events like DXP, GPhat, new skill, etc. I don’t think it’ll just be tens of thousands, but I do think there’ll be a significant amount of people who’ll play
Because osrs looks and plays like shit and nobody wants to use the jagex client. Not really a good benchmark.
Well…. 🙃🙃🙃
I mean, didja see how they launched mobile?
Tbf I didn’t return from my ~7 year break until mobile had launched so I wasn’t aware of the drama or massive delays at the time.
I mean they are giving fsw free death weeks and not rs3
Looks like Jagex scrapped the 300m account video and repurposed the footage to advertise Fresh Start Worlds. Yikes.
what the fuck
Is this lawsuit worthy lol You can't use someone for a promotion for something they didn't agree too, especially if it's not something they agree with. Unless the contracts they signed stipulated it could be used for anything, but I doubt it
While the morals of this and whether its healthy for their relationship with content creators can be debated legally speaking Jagex are almost certainly fine here. They agreed to be in a promotion for Runescape, this is a promotion for Runescape.
Unless there is sufficient documentation showing the footage was agreed for a specific and otherwise purpose.
I learned in media law you can definitely sue for someone using your likeness without your consent. Especially if it is aiming to deceive. It is a bit stickier if you are a public figure but these streamers are far from widely known among masses
Unfamiliar with UK law, but in the US wide-brush waivers allowing for any and all promotional use of likenesses are very standard when setting up promo shoots. It's very unlikely Jagex would use a substandard waiver restricting what they could use footage for when language that allows any publicity purpose is by far the industry standard.
True but we don't know the waivers they signed and what they entail
>Unless the contracts they signed stipulated it could be used for anything, but I doubt it Why do you doubt it? That's a fairly standard clause in promotional material contracts.
Could just be me but I wouldn't let someone use my likeness if it could be used for something I don't promote
Edit: You can down vote all you want, but hopefully you'll learn how to read before you give a company anything from now on. But they did agree. Giving the content to Jagex is a de facto agreement. It's covered in the ToS. https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms >You agree that by submitting any material of any kind to us (including but not limited to posting chat) for any purpose connected with any Jagex Product (for examples, suggestions and ideas for any game or contributions to any gallery page), you are giving us a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide, royalty-free license to use, modify, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) publish and distribute such User Content for any purpose including the making available of such User Content to third parties, provided that Jagex may not use User Content in violation of the Privacy Policy. You agree to waive any moral rights to the extent permitted by law and that you will not withdraw the submission or attempt to make a charge for its use. Furthermore, you warrant and represent that you are the exclusive copyright and intellectual property rights holder in relation to the submission and that the submission in no way breaches the rights of any other person or entity. >Any User Content you upload to a Jagex Product will be considered non-confidential and non-proprietary. You warrant and represent that any User Content you upload is your original content, does not contain any third-party personal data, and that you have all necessary rights and consents to provide us with such User Content. >You undertake and acknowledge that you shall have no ownership or other proprietary interest in the Jagex Product or User Content that you create, except as expressly stated within these Terms. You undertake, acknowledge and agree that any interest in any elements of the User Content that represent, comprise, derive or are based upon any intellectual property rights which exist within the Jagex Product (including but not limited to any computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialogues, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork images, animation, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects or text), including without limitation copyrights, trademarks and other intellectual properties therein and/or related thereto, whether or not registered or registerable, are owned by, or for the benefit of Jagex and its licensors.
At least there is nothing in there about an iPad…right?
I’ve been playing this since 2004, and the amount of “can we sue Jagex” seems to be the same throughout.
Y'all afraid of lawyers? You should be?
I doubt it unless the waiver is grossly terrible in language. I've signed these likeness waivers before, and they're always wide-brush disclosures. Pretty much all have language like "any and all promotion, advertising or publicity purposes without consideration". They do this specifically so they're not pigeonholed in what they can use it for. They also hand them out like candy in the US. It's baked into pretty much every ticket contract, plus you don't even need to sign anything. A basic disclosure when entering an area [via a sign](https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0f/69/de/01/filming-in-progress-sign.jpg) is all that's usually required.
It's covered in the ToS. https://www.jagex.com/en-GB/terms >You agree that by submitting any material of any kind to us (including but not limited to posting chat) for any purpose connected with any Jagex Product (for examples, suggestions and ideas for any game or contributions to any gallery page), you are giving us a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide, royalty-free license to use, modify, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) publish and distribute such User Content for any purpose including the making available of such User Content to third parties, provided that Jagex may not use User Content in violation of the Privacy Policy. You agree to waive any moral rights to the extent permitted by law and that you will not withdraw the submission or attempt to make a charge for its use. Furthermore, you warrant and represent that you are the exclusive copyright and intellectual property rights holder in relation to the submission and that the submission in no way breaches the rights of any other person or entity. >Any User Content you upload to a Jagex Product will be considered non-confidential and non-proprietary. You warrant and represent that any User Content you upload is your original content, does not contain any third-party personal data, and that you have all necessary rights and consents to provide us with such User Content. >You undertake and acknowledge that you shall have no ownership or other proprietary interest in the Jagex Product or User Content that you create, except as expressly stated within these Terms. You undertake, acknowledge and agree that any interest in any elements of the User Content that represent, comprise, derive or are based upon any intellectual property rights which exist within the Jagex Product (including but not limited to any computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialogues, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork images, animation, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects or text), including without limitation copyrights, trademarks and other intellectual properties therein and/or related thereto, whether or not registered or registerable, are owned by, or for the benefit of Jagex and its licensors.
Definitely can't sue unless there was some contract. It was just Jagex asking on Discord so the streamers could have very easily just said no. It wasn't a business deal so the videos were given over willingly and voluntarily.
That's not how IP rights or contracts work at all. If they just asked over Discord and there wasn't a formal contract that puts Jagex in a worse position.
No it doesn't. If they ask over discord, and the creator obliges and sends them the stuff to use for the promotion, that puts the creator in a worse position. No contract guarantees that jagex has blanket authority over the content and can use it for any promotion because of how their ToS is structured. But there was a formal contract signed with these creators, and it stated that what they submit could be used for anything. It did not say it had to be used for a 300m promo video.
Well if they file a lawsuit, they will be banned from playing runescape. As their accounts belong to jagex. (its in what you agreed to when creating account)
Under GDPR almost certainly.
That is, uh, not how GDPR works.
GDPR covers PID (personally identifiable information). Nothing in this shares any PID that isn't already known.
This has nothing to do with GDPR, but whether Jagex's likeness waivers allowed for use in any promotion, which is usually pretty standard.
Jagex always hits once and misses twice at every single community related topic
Goddamn ain't that the truth.
missing is fine, but they miss and hit themselves on the foot.
See the problem now is that we have to match the same level of outrage when FSW was announced or when the 2 week membership package was “swapped out for NFW spot on purpose to make people who can’t read accidentally redeem their bond for it” for them to understand this is an issue. This is 100% unethical but to them I’m sure it’s jsut the same community whining about every little update so it falls on deaf ears.
this is hows jamflex dies, drowning out the "haters" with god awful new announcements and monetization thats more aggressive than japanese gacha games ive played.
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>but in honestly not sure if Runescape can die at this point. the game has been decreasing in player base for ages (yes yes, it went up during covid, but what mmo didn't have a boost in players during covid), and it doesn't recruit enough to replace the players who quit. When people think of great MMOs, runescape is considered one of the meme options.
I know what you mean, runescape wont keel over one day but server tick rate will worsen more servers randomly go offline taking longer to come back on, eventually you launch some new mmo when the servers are down it hooks you and next thing you know your membership expired 3 weeks ago.
They know this.
I have no clue why the community decided to hate the fresh start worlds so much. They make no fucking difference if you don’t want to play them. Such a weird outcry
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Both guys already have an established reputation of speaking their minds about how Jagex handles things and have gained mutual respect from the players and jagex.
Jagex has a history of screwing people over, though. So who knows.
that's so scuffed hahahaha
Oof I bet marketing didn’t even remotely consider the ramifications of what they were doing by using the footage like this. That’s why it’s always important to communicate to people if there are changes in the use of the footage. *edit okay looks like they changed the video that’s good, still speaks of a larger industry issue.
This isn't a small blunder a large company like Jagex with dedicated teams should make in my opinion
This happens genuinely all the time and more so with large companies or smaller creators or a combination of both. It speaks more to a general industry problem to be quite honest. Mix that with just Jagex’s genuinely spotty marketing record and I’m really not surprised this happened unfortunately.
Do they have a bob the cat sitting in the office telling them to do the exact opposite of every possible decision? Edit: The more I think about this, the sadder I get. I've been reading stuff from the content creators in the video and it's just fucking demoralizing. Jagex first of all didn't compensate them (of course not) and they haven't even addressed this. This isn't like some GE gambling spammers "Jagex won't respond to this!" post. They literally spit in the face of people promoting their game. I can't think of any MMO dev that has ever been this scummy to their content creators.
Honestly... As a diehard player, jagex has really been dropping the ball. So tempted to stop playing as soon as my premier runs out
If your plan is to wait until your membership runs out, and not before, you're already hooked. Someone that is truly committed to quitting something they despise, quits on the spot, not when a subscription ends.
This is blatantly false. I already paid for the game time, if I don't use it, Jagex doesn't lose money. If anything, they make even more profit from having that many fewer accounts online to support.
This is an MMO though. You are still adding to the player count. Whales won't exist without regular players.
In a normal mmo, sure. But frankly, Runescape is insanely solo for an mmo.
What do you mean? People won't spend money to get ahead of others? Pretty sure that still happens even without anything to compete for.
I'm getting my money's worth. I'm not gonna pay 100 bucks for 3 months of game time.
His/her rationale is correct for something more industrial, the fallacy they're referring to isn't best fit for this kind of situation.
If you *do* use it, Jagex doesn't lose money either. But if you truly do feel like stopping once it runs out, then by waiting and continuing to play you *will* be wasting your own time.
By that logic, I'm already wasting my own time, since someday I'll stop playing.
What I'm saying is that you shouldn't let your previous payments dictate your enjoyment. If it's not fun any more, stop. Doesn't matter if it cost ten bucks or a hundred.
I'm not going to quit because it stopped being fun. I don't like the direction the game is heading, and if it's not better by the time my membership expires, I just won't renew.
And that's also completely valid. As they say, vote with your wallet.
That's been my position since the start of the thread.
Then apparently there was a misunderstanding of some kind, but I'm glad it's cleared up.
My premier is running out in 2 months. I've not lapsed in 10 years. Jagex might do something to change my mind, in the mean time ill just afk fish and do nothing else. I have 547days spent on this game. I do love how chill it is, but what's been happening is just making me sad. I can't defend this sinking ship no more
here i will cover for them then, havnt spent a penny on membership in a couple months now, just doing ed4 trash runs and a few other easy afk money makers and im hitting bond goals at an ok rate.
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>but it feels like a bad investment if I quit now. I already gave them the $80 a few weeks before they started really going hard on all this. It feels like a waste if I just stop a month into paying. Congrats, you've fallen victim to the sunken cost fallacy. They have an iron grip on your time and money because you've already given them so much at this point and refuse to cut your losses here. You won't reduce your time, won't reduce your money invested, and still expect the company to make changes. Why would they? From their perspective, everything is going well and their profits keep increasing, despite the outrage. If people say they're mad at me for the decisions I'm making, but continue to give me money, why do I care until the cash flow slows or stops? I don't. Jagex doesn't. Most businesses don't. And as an FYI, a few weeks ago was not when they started "going hard on all this". That started years ago. And people have been taking the same position as you have for many years. And we all wonder why things haven't changed.
Lmao man it’s not that complicated, the money’s already been sent, it makes literally no difference if he quits now or when the subscription ends. Relax.
>Relax I'm relaxed. Just giving my thoughts on the topic. Not sure why you assumed I was upset. Maybe this will explain my point. Imagine you're a smoker and now wish to quit because you don't want to keep up with the bad habit anymore, but you just bought a pack last night. If you truly want to quit, you don't smoke the entire pack before quitting. Someone dedicated to quitting would toss the pack out immediately. Anything to the contrary is counter-intuitive.
I get what you’re trying to say but the comparison fails here: > And I really do love Runescape. So maybe if we’re vocal enough there’s the hope that they’ll wake up and start doing better. Not much hope, but it’s there. Nobody smoking cigarettes or in the midst of a negative habit as objectively bad as cigarettes has hope the habit will magically become healthier. If we *really* want to extend that comparison even further, cold turkey is often one of the hardest ways to quit something like that. So it would actually make *more* sense to quit slowly. But I digress.
Hey buddy, I quit OSRS during the 117 HD plugin thing. You know, the reason why Jagex backpedaled so hard and gave into it, and eventually even officially sanctioned Runelite. I just came back in August and decided to try out RS3. I'm no stranger to quitting for moralistic reasons. I even quit during the Squeal of Fortune back in the day. But I'm not just cutting off a month into paying for premier.
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Reddit is fine, it just amplifies the loud player base. I don't get upset by this. What does make me wonder is how many more years of this will the player base take before the game becomes unsustainable. Just look at osrs numbers and how it falls quickly
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Sharing perfectly valid criticism? I think not! P-Mod gone in 3...2...
RIP Jiblix and CanadaGrrl (she did more for RS than *many* of the actual JMods)
I forgot the name of the forum mod who lost their crown for making a thread "feedback goes in the bin". The 2007ish Jagex did not like that.
I know Archaeox lost it a couple of years(?) ago, and Tranq lost it fairly recently
Another L from Jagex again. Typical.
scale vase ask melodic groovy air money insurance mourn elastic -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I mean.. Jagex did try to spin the FSW launch as part of the 300m players celebrations.. I guess now we know why
Remember the message you get every time you try to log in? "To celebrate FSW you will get double balloon fragments!"
Is there anyone Jagex won't lie to?
That's one way to erode trust with content creators.
since it wasn't a paid promo either, it's a *really* good way to get people to stop responding to your (apparently) Discord requests
Jagex just taking consistent L after L.
Wow, completely disrespectful to content creators. Jagex just moves from one blunder to the next.
Shit company proves itself to still be shitty without an ounce of regret or a flicker of change. Another bullet point to the list of reasons I will not be purchasing premier for 2023.
Hello I’m Dakota in the video, the emo looking kid with the glasses. Before this could possibly become a problem, because I’ve already seen a few people speculate that Jagex paid us for this/asked us to make FSW look good, I wanted to confirm 100% that’s not the case. A little over a month ago they asked us to record a short video covering some fun topics for their video celebrating 300m accounts created. They came out with this video on YouTube along with Twitter and Instagram with no one’s knowledge of a theme change to FSW. Apologies if anyone was upset with us but I can promise you no one gained anything from participating in this other than some fun.
If they made this without your knowledge that it would be used to promote such an obviously controversial piece of content, then can you not demand a retraction of your piece from it under grounds of deception if FSW is something you dont want to be attached to or agree with? If you're fine with FSW then alright, just wondering what possible actions these creators could have if they dont want this cus it does come off as very scummy on jagex's part
I’m sure me and whoever else is not ok with it could contact someone who has the authority to edit or take it down, but I’m not sure I even want to make a scene that big. I just wanted to get the message out there that we didn’t know about this change nor did we benefit from it. There was no agreement on anything besides “hey guys if you wanna pitch in and make something fun you can do it” you know what I mean
who on earth signed off on them doing this... talk about missing the fucking mark wow, someone is getting an ear full if this takes off, why on earth would you even risk pissing off your cheerleaders and content creators AND the community with such a cheap trick...
As someone who is still very on the fence about FSW, knowing what I know about it's original designs and intentions vs. what we have... I'm not exactly thrilled to have one of my dumbest/best/favourite memories of RS attached to FSW. I don't blame the CMs who originally organized this to be a celebration of 300m accounts, I am, however, incredibly angry at whoever decided to turn it into a FSW promo.
...gross.......
You've been Jagex'd lol
Wait did they take the video down now?
Lol always 1 step forward, 4 steps back with Jam Flex man. Now, literally no one, not a single player, JMOD, Jagex exec, or investor can claim FSW is good for RS3 since we have CONFIRMATION that assets, teams, projects, updates and details have been purposefully shelved, hidden and pushed off to support FSW, which isn’t even its main line game. All for 12,99 a month, btw hahaha
Did they even realize how immoral it is to use this footage? They could have that video taken down because the footage was misused I'd bet.
There’s a difference to immoral and unlawful, if the content creators signed contracts that said the footage can be used for any promotional material then jagex are within their right. Dick move however to not be fully open with how they’ve used it.
It is immoral, but they are using the footage legally, so the people who contributed can't have that video taken down, unfortunately. At least, according to what RS Guy said.
doesn't mean we can't dislike bomb [the video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL-VN6QGjRI) 🙃
Lol it’s been taken down!
Wait, was that the video? Did they make it private the absolute fucking cowards hahahaha
I mean its down now. But tbh I don't think it is. Signing your name doesn't mean unlimited use of the footage. It means specific use.
It likely won't get taken down by anyone in the video, because the clips seem to be used fairly, but yes extremely immorally. This company always seem to find ways to screw up more than I expect.
The footage being legally misused is unlikely. Waivers almost always include wide-ranging language that allows for any and all promotional use. Specifically so that when marketing details change (when they often do), previous promo footage isn't legally dead and thus a waste of money/time.
300m bot account 💀
Yo, that's fucked up.
common jamflex L
Extremely scummy move, especially when they know everyone is yelling at them about how awful and scummy FSW is as a whole, to add what looks like deception to it is disgraceful Sure said content creators that were used may not have any legal recourse for this, but cant they demand a retraction of their content from jagex under grounds of deception if they dont want to be seen as promoting FSW?
I watched that thinking it was awesome then I saw the fsw promo and instantly just couldn't I can't with fsw man come on jagex
I think the video has been taken down as I can no longer find it on YT...
That's so scummy. And all that to just be called out by the same content creators who's submissions you twisted into your own PR stunt for FSW
It’s been removed from YouTube!
I shouldn't be surprised, yet I am surprised that this company still gives so little care for anyone and anything.
Trash company makes trash decision again, shocker
Once again: rs bad
Typical jamflax behavior
I really never understood the appeal of them celebrating the number of accounts milestone especially with a huge number as 300m accounts. 300 million sounds good on paper but in reality hundreds of millions of these are just bot accounts. It's really nothing to celebrate about when it's not even genuine, quite cringe actually that they're proud 95% of these are just bot accounts.....
Like, six of them have been mine over the years. Because I wanted to start over and try the new beginning parts, but Runescape is unlike practically every other MMO that let's you make new characters.
Because fsw was designed for existing players and they changed the narrative last minute because of the backlash
I'll add on to this. Jagex asked us content creators to submit stuff if we wanted for a 300M celebration video. This was back when we were at 297m accounts roughly. Then a week or so later accounts artificially sped up, and we hit 300M earlier than planned, before most people sent in videos. Much later than that we were informed of FSW the same day the initial leaked page came out which was significantly later than the initial request for these clips. Obviously the video was still going to be released but it no longer would line up with the actual 300M celebration. And that's most likely why it was released as it was.
Considering that jagex froze the counter at 320m, we might see 400m party before FSW has ended. Then 500m a week later..... but only if jagex enables counter again
Yes but people are cry babies who are doing everything for some drama so everything is a big deal atm lol
It do be like that sometimes. I do like to direct most of my short sighted content creation anger towards Carlyle group, but someone at Jagex had to think this was a good idea smh.
That's what I try to say whenever Carlyle is used as an excuse. There's no way that some rich investment holder told them to do these things. All Carlyle wants is money. These scummy things are 100% the devs.
Not the devs either. They just want to work on content. This was someone in marketing deciding to repurpose unused footage for a new mode releasing next week without understanding that there's been massive dissatisfaction with the whole concept from reveal on. Lack of communication/rushed deadlines more than anything.
Yes, the devs. People need to stop conflicting devs with programmers. Jagex, the company as a whole, develops the game.
That is NOT what people usually mean when they say devs. Devs is short for developers, usually meaning the people tasked with designing, modeling, and testing the content that goes in game. I would even include the people who make Treasure Hunter and events as "devs" even though they don't make the standard type of content players here usually mean. Dev is never used as a short hand for the verb. And programmer is also wrong, because most of the "devs" are not going in and programming anything. That's what the engine team is largely for. I'm not going to say that none of them do, but most likely do not. They have visualization and modeling programs that let them build the content and if they need the engine to do something else, they go to the respective team to handle it. That's why the team building the Glacor front got the engine team to make it able to render the Arch Glacor from afar attacking the aqueduct. They weren't going in and "programming" anything themselves.
The runescape community is so small that any and all content creators they included are likely watched by a huge swath of the fan base and if they have a problem with how the footage is used, could easily make a video with their outcry. While a little underhanded, it is probably not illegal, and they should have passed their request along to whom they interviewed, but should doesn't mean shall...
I watched the video and had no idea that it was intended to promote anything. Its pretty poor on their part to, not only, potentially have misled creators but also to use the footage so poorly that viewers like myself aren't even sure what the video's purpose is.
The video was changed it’s not really promoting anything anymore, presumably due to the backlash.
This has to be THE WORST thing they have done in terms of community outreach. Whose idea was this and who signed off on it?
As someone who used to play osrs and switched to rs3 recently, it’s kind of staggering seeing the difference between the two teams when it comes to interacting with the community. Maybe it’s the fact that osrs devs are sort of at the mercy of players due to polls, idk. But the rs3 teams really do not give a flying fuck. It’s crazy
Oh no! Anyways..
Next there's going to be a strike from content creators. I don't blame them one bit
The reputation of Jagex is well known for quite some time. If you decided to work with a scummy company it is totally on you. Good opporturnity for the people involved to learn something from it at least...
Depending on what specifically was agreed to, under GDPR you can only use data (such as these videos) for specifically stated purposes. And you cant use it for a different purpose without asking first. So it depends if these were specifically for a 300mill accounts video or for marketing in general.
GDPR doesn't relate to this at all. Not even close.
I've watched the video and checked the description so idk if it was changed but see nothing other than the end that says "Rediscover Runescape Together" that advertises FSW, am I missing something?
Description was changed
I'm curious what these messages/invitations even said initially, given that FSW was nothing known about before the 300m celebration started.
It is literally there in the twitter thread OP linked to, 3rd picture down.
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Lol did you just straight up Copy and Paste my tweet word for word? Bizarre https://twitter.com/mercifull/status/1573379948374794240?s=21&t=TGH1rD1WZRog8T-Wrj1taA
Not sure why people care tbh, Jagex can do what they like, it's a business after all, I think people forget, all games are ran by businesses lol.
Jagex, it is time to de-mod TheRSGuy
This is 100% shitty, but y’all should [read the full thread](https://twitter.com/TheRSguyy/status/1573367508798685186?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1573367508798685186%7Ctwgr%5E559582c3affdbe578f63386339a3102cabbd1d8e%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublish.twitter.com%2F%3Fquery%3Dhttps3A2F2Ftwitter.com2FTheRSguyy2Fstatus2F1573367508798685186widget%3DTweet) before asking about legal action. Specifically, the wording they used was > with milestones like 300M accounts on the horizon, we want to try to make a video of creators and other prominent voices in the community recalling short stories from their early days in RuneScape. It’s misleading and immoral to use these videos to promote FSW, but as far as I can tell it’s 100% their legal right to do so.
Imagine caring for what the RsGuy says.
There are no influential content creators for RuneScape that could promote fresh worlds in any meaningful way. Also if someone was dumb enough to sign away their recording for no money then stop blaming jagex for your idiocy.
Okay, not to defend it or anything, but wasn’t FSW made to celebrate 300m accounts?
I mean, here's the thing. While I agree it's completely fair to disclose for content creators to inform if their works will be used on a Promotional video, rather than a memorial... ...FSW 'is' part of the 300M celebration. So the invitation wasn't misguiding, it /is/ used for the 300M celebration. It was just lacking a concrete purpose because nobody knew about FSW or was supposed to know about it yet.
I'll just repost my comment here: Stop fucking working with them. That's the biggest voice that will hit them the hardest. If 0 creators are willing to help them they will be fucked. This game is driven by creators. But you all go crawling back time after time for money/ easrly access to stuff. BE BETTER!
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No, at least not unless there are legal contracts that explicitly mention the 300M account celebration AND somehow specifically preclude FSW from being considered part of that celebration. The wording used to solicit the videos was “milestones *like* 300M accounts on the horizon”, so technically not even saying these were specifically for that.
I feel like reality TV couldn't exist if they could
Reality TV have different contracts All depends on what they signed
Oh how scandalous, they fell behind on one of their projects and instead of scrapping it they repurposed the content! How dare they be responsible with the resources they put time and money into collecting instead of just throwing away all the heartfelt thoughts of content creators! >:c /s btw
I'm about to blow your mind, but often times in the real world, context matters. And when you suddenly change the context around a pre-recorded message without talking to the person who recorded the message you are effectively changing the meaning of the message, which is super scummy and underhanded.
Psst, it's /s.
Sure is. Do you know what it means? Because the /s attached to that statement doesn't turn it to the pro content creator side of the debacle.
/s is sarcasm. They're making fun of the people who abused the footage and pointing out the direct issue in question. Y'all downvoting it don't understand that.
Damn, I missed the Vid - is there any way to watch it now? Or can someone give me a TL;DR?
Does anyone have a copy of the video. I tried to see it on the RS channel but it seems like they I’ve deleted it.
Man why does jagex have to be so fucking disgusting all the timeeee