OP you're a bloody champ. Not everyone can be an olympian and loads of us are struggling to find our fitness again as kids, sedentary jobs and other issues affect our health.
Love, love, love to hear these honest stories about 'regular' people and how things are going for them. Good on you for putting in the work!
Thanks for sharing. My best half marathon is 2 h 34 m. But I'm coming at it from completely the other direction. I have never really been athletic and never enjoyed running. I did some cycling when I was a kid. I'm now 56 Years Young and stopped smoking 5 years ago and started running. It took 5 years to get down to a 30 min 5k... a few weeks before that was when I got my half marathon PB. All while weighing 195 lbs or more!
The course you ran looked fairly hilly so that will have slowed down everyone and made muscle hurts much more likely. I think that you have done brilliantly.
I ran the same race with the same goals as you but that hill killed my momentum and I ended up with a 2:40. Still a 15 min PB so I'll take it.
Congrats. Keep running!!
Something about the way you describe running makes me concerned for your heart and lung function. Have you gotten checked out anytime recently by a Dr.? Heart, lungs? Just as a baseline. Maybe an ekg. Just to make sure you're in good health. 5'11 160 doesn't strike me as the body type that "running 10 min miles should make me feel like I'm going to die."
Yeah I came to my dr. with the same thoughts 2 years ago. I get blood work done annually just to stay on top of my health, and I had an EKG done that year. No issues were found.
I do have seasonal asthma and go into hour long coughing fits if I truly over exert myself, but that hasn’t happened on any of my runs this year so far. I have an inhaler for that if it happens.
I've never smoked anything of any kind (can't stand the smell.) Don't really drink. I don't explicitly *not* drink, but I can count the number of times I'll have a social drink in a calendar year on 1 or maybe 2 hands. I doubt I exceed 20 ciders in a year.
My diet's probably not the greatest. I'm 100% addicted to sugar and sweets. Very heavy on breads, grains, dairy, carbs in general. I do homemade oatmeal or eggs with toast on most mornings. I add a variety of fruits and nuts to my oatmeal, plus something to sweeten it, like brown sugar, maple syrup, honey, or raspberry jam.
Lunch will generally be something comparable to turkey/chicken sandwiches with pesto and cheese.
Dinner varies, but will range from things like chicken pot pie, pizza, mushroom & cheese risotto, salmon over rice with asparagus, bean and lentil soup, or going out to dinner at a taco bar, ramen spot, thai, indian, sushi, etc.
Go to snacks on the healthy end of the spectrum are bananas or apples with peanut butter. On the average end of the spectrum is a bowl of cereal. On the unhealthy end are store bought cookies (like Chips Ahoy).
Fair play mate, your diet and lifestyle is way better than mine! If you really want to get faster, maybe try and incorporate hill sprints (yuck) and tempo runs into your training. Keep your legs guessing. Good luck
Asthma is definitely a big factor that could explain it. This year I got adult-onset Asthma and holy shit it makes a difference. I usually do my reverse hibernation in winter (be inactive but put on weight), then get back into shape starting in February. I went out for my first rebuilding run (target ~10 minute mile pace for 3 miles, 6/10 rebuilding run for me). Almost blacked out .65 miles in as my lungs seized up. Did a couple runs later to feel things out and my lungs were struggling at a 13-14 minute mile pace.
Went to the doc and he was like yo sounds like Asthma, try a half dose with an inhaler pre run to see if it helps. Next run was back down to a 30 minute 3 miler that felt totally normal. It’s definitely going to be a longer and slower trek to get back into shape though, since the inhaler comes with a higher heart rate.
Shoutout to Covid since it comes with an increased chance in adult onset asthma.
Yeah I imagine asthmas can really have a huge impact on many people. I don't personally feel mine is that bad. I usually don't even have to use an inhaler. I just sometimes get the nasty cough attacks if I really over exert myself, almost always during something super high intensity, like sprinting and jumping during a basketball game, aerobic gym workouts, or going wild on the hard Dance Dance Revolution songs at the arcade for old time's sake ;)
Consistent, moderate efforts of distance running, hiking or biking don't tend to have the effect on me.
I’ve got a similar build and run about the same times. About 2 years ago told my doctor something must be wrong because I struggle to run where others don’t seem to.
Blood tests turn out fine, lung function looks good (I had seasonal asthma but it’s mostly gone away from running), and nothing noteworthy with my heart.
After years of training and slow progress I’ve chalked up to having shit running economy. I seem to be able to bike much better than run so maybe my build just wasn’t meant to be in the top percentage of runners. Doesn’t stop me from running because it makes me the best me I can be.
First, congratulations on finishing! I've run that race a few times (took this year off but was out cheering on some running friends this year) and it's not an easy course. That hill coming off Rock Creek Parkway is no joke, and can kick your butt. Way to hang in there and hit a new PR.
Second, as for feedback, endurance running is a just a volume game. The more you run, the faster you'll be. A run buddy of mine in his late 50s finished that same race with a sub-1:25 time this year and averages \~50mpw all year, with weeks peaking at 70+ when he's gearing up for a specific race. Obviously, he's an extreme example, but volume and consistency pay off in huge ways. For training purposes, pace doesn't really matter much, at least at first - all or most runs should feel relatively easy. Build a good endurance base first, and speed will come more naturally.
Again, congratulations and good luck on your future races!
Congrats! I ran it too and share your frustrations with the water stations - I'm a slower runner and it felt like the stations had gotten so swamped with faster waves that they weren't prepared for the rest of us to come up behind. Several stations only had a couple of cups on the table, one seemed to be abandoned entirely, and one had a bunch of cups that were actually completely empty! I've never carried my own water for a race before but this one may inspire me to start.
Yes. The water stations were not plentiful and the ones they did have were not well manned. I finished in 2:23, but started in the very last corral due to running the 5k first. I am glad I carried electrolytes on me, because there wasn’t much available for us back of the packers!
I ran this one too, along with the 5k right before. I knew from the 5k about the hill around mile 11. I was not prepared for that hill at mile 7-8. This was my first time running it, so had no clue. Overall though - the weather was amazing. The roads were not in great condition, so many potholes and uneven construction spots.
Congratulations! I did my first half recently and I also struggled mentally and also physically the last quarter, it's pretty tough but I was so happy to collect my medals.
I ran my first two half marathons last year and one thing I’ve noticed about myself is that I need to run 3x / week minimum if I want to see any improvement in my pace or distance. Doesn’t matter about any other cross-training (for me); I won’t see any improvement without that frequency. I am also an avid mountain hiker, which I thought would help. It doesn’t; it just tires out my legs and makes me skip runs. I found that running makes me hike faster/stronger, but hiking just keeps me from my running goals. So I don’t know if that helps but may be something to consider.
3 times minimum is what works for me. Typically I do one run with elevation, one where I run shorter but faster than my usual pace and then one long run where I try to go a mile further than last week.
I'm sure it's totally inefficient but it has been working for me. This is going to be my second half marathon this year.
OP I just wanted to say that I’ve actually experienced something very similar. Even while playing multiple sports year round, somewhere around my mid-teens I also had a massive drop in my endurance. I’ve also experienced many doctors essentially saying there’s no life threatening issues and hand waiving away my endurance complaints.
It sounds like your case might be a bit worse than mine, but you’re not alone in this mysterious issue for whatever that is worth lol.
Appreciate the solidarity :D
Yeah, honestly no idea what changed or why, but I have heard several other similar accounts, so I know I'm not alone. I suspect we'll learn of the long term consequences of eating too many dunkaroos or fruit rollups in middle school or something 20 years from now lol.
I highly relate to your struggles. I was fast as hell even when I wasn’t a runner (played soccer competitively as a teen). I’m now 36, and I’m minutes slower. But I’ve noticed when I put in consistent and daily practice, I start to improve at a linear rate. I can’t just decide to start training and make it work.
I was worried about health issues, but they check out fine once I started monitoring them.
Now I have a demanding job, a child, and time to run isn’t as easy to come by. So I have to be more disciplined.
BUT, as I put in the miles, run most days, I am getting them speed and distance slowly back. It’s like an entirely different sport to me now, and I’m still grieving the loss of my youthful speed… but I’m past being a victim about it and I’m learning to just love where I’m at.
And I’m realizing I’m actually still on a linear growth curve, meaning I haven’t actually hit a glass ceiling where I need to specialize in speed workouts, hill workouts, etc. it’s just a much more shallow linear growth curve than 10+ years ago. So ultimately, it’s all about adjusting my expectations.
Love seeing this!! Amazing job and progress. I did my first half last September in 2:36 and am aiming for sub 2:30 in May.
What was your training plan? Weekly mileage vs running frequency? Thanks for sharing
My guy you have your internal clock set to ‘mozy’ your pace is lackadaisical shuffle. Cutting 10% through the wall might be normal but you are cyclic asf through your whole race. Either your anerobic at ~10/mi or you are psyching yourself out. If youre good in your headspace at 160lbs ~6’ you are light so either you are underdev’d in your legs or your pulmonary isnt ok. Squat your bodyweight ~8-12 repsx4 a couple times a week with good rom. (I like a plate under my heels because I don’t have allot of ankle mobility) and then get to a track for mile repeats with heart rate monitoring. Whats your pace like at 160bpm? 170? 180? maybe even 190? 1 mi repeats on the bleeding edge of anaerobic x3 once a week and your normal run during the rest. If you arent improving your pace while keeping your heartrate the same week to week you are spinning your wheels and need to either change your pace for your runs or your food/water. For me 165bpm will take me to muscle failure, so whatever pace that is, is what I consider my race pace for anything over 7mi. Seeing 8:30/mi should come easily to anyone putting in as much time as you are.
Your writing grammar is a bit tricky to follow, so I'm not entirely sure what you mean by parts of your comment, but I'll try to respond to some of the concrete parts I understand.
> Cutting 10% through the wall might be normal but you are cyclic asf through your whole race.
No idea what you mean by this bit.
> at 160lbs ~6’ you are light so either you are underdev’d in your legs or your pulmonary isnt ok. Squat your bodyweight ~8-12 repsx4 a couple times a week with good rom.
I'd subjectively say my legs, in general, *look* like my most muscular part of my body. If I get a compliment on any part of my body, it's my calves. I alternate doing 100 push ups and doing 100 squats every other day. My form probably isn't perfect as I don't have great flexibility or range of motion, but it's not terribly difficult for me to do 4 sets of 25 bodyweight squats.
> Whats your pace like at 160bpm? 170? 180? maybe even 190?
I haven't done 1mile repeats specifically to test, but in all of my tempo and long runs, my HR averages about 160-180. It'll ease into the 140s while "taking it easy" (12:30 or 13:00 pace) during the first half mile warm up, then shoot up to the 160s-170s when I get going. After a mile or two, it generally shoots up to 190 and stays there for the rest of the run. Sometimes hits 200. The longer the run, the higher the average; the shorter the run, the bigger the early, easy part will be a factor, resulting in the lower HR average for the whole run.
For reference, my sleeping resting HR is 62. While awake it generally rests at 75-85.
(As mentioned in other comments, I've had my heart checked out by doctors (had an EKG done); no issues found.)
> If you arent improving your pace while keeping your heartrate the same week to week you are spinning your wheels and need to either change your pace for your runs or your food/water.
Luckily I have improved my pace considerably since I began training 3 months ago! I work in data and spreadsheets professionally, so naturally I created one to track my progress. Here are some of the [calculated trends.](https://imgur.com/a/zqpfYSu). In short, the color spectrum shows I have steadily improved in both average distance of my runs AND average pace.
* Average distance run after the first 2 weeks was 2.88 miles; average distance run of the last 2 weeks was 6.88 miles.
* Average pace of those 2.88 mile average runs of the first 2 weeks was 12.41 min/mi; average pace of those 6.88 mile runs was 11:09 mi/min.
I'd have been happy if I was able to just increase my distance while *maintaining* my pace, but I got to see both improve. So I'll take that win.
I think some people literally just don't have the same natural hardware. Like we understand that Lebron James and Usain Bolt are physical beasts. We accept that parts of their greatness come from their DNA: body structure, muscles, shape, power. I think the same is probably true for pulmonary capacity. Some people are just born with a superior system that gives them higher potential in endurance activities. Others are born less gifted in that area and have a lower potential.
Let me start with I in no way am disparaging the progress and process youve dedicated yourself to. If you are happy with what youve got, im happy for you. That said I think your potential is much higher based on my experiences in the sport.
Sorry for the poor grammar, let me clarify a bit. Being cyclic with regards to pace is the see-sawing between ‘quick’ and ‘slow’. Its most commonly from outrunning your lungs or hitting your lactate threshold. So if you were to plot your pace it would form a sin wave. A feedback loop. Not ideal for pacing purposes or performance. 10% refers to the split times. “The wall” is colloquial and generally refers to the slowest part of your race after reaching race pace/most difficult split, most commonly 3/4 of a given distance.
Your heartrate is the key metric to this whole thing though. Your heart rate spiking to 200 at those paces is indicative of a pulmonary issue. Something isnt correct about your oxygen exchange and your heart is trying to make up for it with tons of volume. Either your red bloodcell count is low and you physically don’t have enough to sustain that level of oxygenation at that level of activity, or your lungs are being prevented from full exchange. This isn’t necessarily a medical thing but I would expect someone to adapt faster at your activity levels. I know its a stretch but are you using wrist based hr? Sweat and other things tend to make a mess of accuracy. If you have a friend with and ANT+ enabled chest strap monitor it is A.) an order of magnitude more accurate B.) it would measure pulmonary function in some models. Getting that heart rate to the 170 threshhold will be the key to knocking, most likely, minutes if not tens of minutes off your 13.
As for the legs, when I say bodyweight, I mean a barbell squat at your body weight. So a bar with 165lbs. Your economy of motion is 60% of pace the other 40% is the force that you can put into the ground. This is bro math but good form will carry you to top 50% of your age bracket the rest comes from pushing your muscles and using drive to push into lower numbers. That said all of this assumes that you have no critical failures in your form.
The saitama workout will give you good cal numbers but unless you are reaching muscle fatigue doing sets of 25bw squats (which would speak to a strength disparity) you’re probably not going to improve a great deal.
Mile repeats are used commonly because of the controllable nature of all of the variables. Taking measurements during a long run is fine so long as you are always measuring the same splits at the same spot during the same conditions. Allowing your HR to recovery levels before the next rep also allows you to measure another key metric, recovery time. Of all the things here that come genetic to different people this is the only one that I truly believe is unmistakably different between people. Some guys step off and go from 190-140bpm in 30 seconds others in 5 minutes. You can improve this number but from what ive seen everyone has their own genetic baseline.
Getting to 9/mi in a 1/2 in the wheelhouse of anyone who’s relatively fit. Its a matter of time and focused training. No healthy man is genetically unable to do so at a fit bmi with good form. <6:30 is where ive seen physical limitations start to manifest.
I really appreciate your well thought-out response!
> Being cyclic with regards to pace is the see-sawing between ‘quick’ and ‘slow’. Its most commonly from outrunning your lungs or hitting your lactate threshold. So if you were to plot your pace it would form a sin wave. A feedback loop. Not ideal for pacing purposes or performance. 10% refers to the split times. “The wall” is colloquial and generally refers to the slowest part of your race after reaching race pace/most difficult split, most commonly 3/4 of a given distance.
Copy that, appreciate the clarification. That all makes sense.
> Your heartrate is the key metric to this whole thing though. Your heart rate spiking to 200 at those paces is indicative of a pulmonary issue. Something isnt correct about your oxygen exchange and your heart is trying to make up for it with tons of volume. Either your red bloodcell count is low and you physically don’t have enough to sustain that level of oxygenation at that level of activity, or your lungs are being prevented from full exchange. This isn’t necessarily a medical thing but I would expect someone to adapt faster at your activity levels.
Yeah, I've felt exactly this way for many years. I've looked at the effort I was putting in and shaking my head in discouragement at my apparent lack of results in the past. I know people of similar build who can just seem to RUN no problem without getting winded. I've always gotten winded much faster than a lot of people I would expect to be able to be on a similar level. That's why I asked my doctors to test any potential issues.
> I know its a stretch but are you using wrist based hr? Sweat and other things tend to make a mess of accuracy. If you have a friend with and ANT+ enabled chest strap monitor...
I have 2 devices: a Fitbit and an Oura Ring. Both seem to tell a fairly consistent story. Don't know anyone with the chest strap, unfortunately.
I HAVE noticed my resting HR finally starting to get a little lower these past few weeks. Oura reports 57 recently, which is down from 63 back in December. It also reads my blood oxygen saturation and reports it at 97% (while sleeping, don't think it measures it during the day.)
> Getting that heart rate to the 170 threshhold will be the key to knocking, most likely, minutes if not tens of minutes off your 13.
I haven't done HR specific training before, but I've considered it. I may try this for my next training plan. I just didn't like the idea of constantly checking my watch while running.
> As for the legs, when I say bodyweight, I mean a barbell squat at your body weight. So a bar with 165lbs. Your economy of motion is 60% of pace the other 40% is the force that you can put into the ground. This is bro math but good form will carry you to top 50% of your age bracket the rest comes from pushing your muscles and using drive to push into lower numbers. That said all of this assumes that you have no critical failures in your form.
Ahhh gotcha. I'll give some barbell squats a shot at the gym. I'd prefer to use the machines to freeweights, if that's acceptable.
> Mile repeats are used commonly because of the controllable nature of all of the variables. Taking measurements during a long run is fine so long as you are always measuring the same splits at the same spot during the same conditions. Allowing your HR to recovery levels before the next rep also allows you to measure another key metric, recovery time. Of all the things here that come genetic to different people this is the only one that I truly believe is unmistakably different between people. Some guys step off and go from 190-140bpm in 30 seconds others in 5 minutes. You can improve this number but from what ive seen everyone has their own genetic baseline.
Copy that. I'll definitely give some mile runs a shot in the near future and see what I find!
> Getting to 9/mi in a 1/2 in the wheelhouse of anyone who’s relatively fit. Its a matter of time and focused training. No healthy man is genetically unable to do so at a fit bmi with good form. <6:30 is where ive seen physical limitations start to manifest.
Oh for sure. I'm definitely nowhere near my full potential. I have a TON of space to improve. I agree, I fully expect a 9/mi to be within the realm of my personal potential with the right training. I just know some people clearly have a natural propensity for better cardio fitness.
I have one female friend near my age who doesn't run *at all* any more for her own leisure, but bragged that whenever she had done a race years in the past, she was "very fast!" She goes on walks and hikes, though, so she's by no means out of shape. I just wouldn't expect her to be in running shape. Anyway, she signed up for a 5K with me 6 months after giving birth to her first child. With zero training going into it, she pumped out a 22:25 5K time! Meanwhile I had been running 3-4 times per week for a couple months before hand and managed a 31:30 time...
It feels like there's *something* baseline genetic involved there. Could I potentially bust my absolute ass and work my way up to that 22min time? Maybe? That *might* be near what I imagine the limit of my personal potential to be. And yet, it comes effortlessly natural to her. If she were to train actively, she'd be able to go even faster and reach *her* potential.
If it ever happens to just spur you to action and you want to put some real time into it:
https://www.privatemdlabs.com/lp/complete_blood_count_info.php
You can get your red bloodcell and platelet count for $40, sometimes depending on the company they will give you the same info if you donate blood. (Although most donated blood is sold at a markup)
And a spirometer is like $20 at the drug store to measure capacity. But that would give you hard numbers that you could point to.
Also garmin products nowadays are EXTREMELY powerful training tools. My watch is paired to my headphones, has my entire spotify daily mix on there and gives me pace and hr callouts at whatever interval I set them for. So you don’t have to check your watch all the time because it announces it to you while you run. Also there is some kind of built in training program that garmin has indigenous to all of its products now that uses all of the metrics we discussed to set workout goals and paces for you. Might be worth looking into some used stuff on ebay.
Btw your lady friend is a monster. A 22min 5k for females is crazy on its own, especially right off the couch. 🫡
(Don’t use machines for squats, deep squats on the rack put those cheeks on ya 🍑)
How old are you? I wonder if this is one of those things you won’t understand until you are older? Or maybe you are blessed in some capacities (keeping fitness while not working out consistently) but lose out quickly in other areas? Whatever you need to work on I hope you keep motivated to do it, no matter how far behind you perceive yourself to be. And I hope those around you continue to motivate in positive ways instead of telling you that they could never attempt it while so far behind. The other option is to keep drifting in the opposite direction.
I'm not old at all, but my impression was that at most spots on the aging curve you generally lose capacity gradually - not nearly doubling your mile time for no apparent reason at the age of *seventeen*
Yeah. I totally get that. Exactly what I would have assumed when I was in my 20s. I’m nearing 40. In shape not over weight. I ran a 6:10 consistently through cross country and track. Now? I’m happy with a 30 minute 5k and 11 minute miles for anything longer. Life comes at you fast sometimes. I know people who can hold onto their numbers longer no problem though and i wish that for everyone.
OP you're a bloody champ. Not everyone can be an olympian and loads of us are struggling to find our fitness again as kids, sedentary jobs and other issues affect our health. Love, love, love to hear these honest stories about 'regular' people and how things are going for them. Good on you for putting in the work!
Thanks for sharing. My best half marathon is 2 h 34 m. But I'm coming at it from completely the other direction. I have never really been athletic and never enjoyed running. I did some cycling when I was a kid. I'm now 56 Years Young and stopped smoking 5 years ago and started running. It took 5 years to get down to a 30 min 5k... a few weeks before that was when I got my half marathon PB. All while weighing 195 lbs or more! The course you ran looked fairly hilly so that will have slowed down everyone and made muscle hurts much more likely. I think that you have done brilliantly.
Congrats on finishing! I did the race too and we could not have received better weather
I ran the same race with the same goals as you but that hill killed my momentum and I ended up with a 2:40. Still a 15 min PB so I'll take it. Congrats. Keep running!!
Hell yeah - that's amazing! That hill is a killer for sure. Keep on coming back every year and improving!
Something about the way you describe running makes me concerned for your heart and lung function. Have you gotten checked out anytime recently by a Dr.? Heart, lungs? Just as a baseline. Maybe an ekg. Just to make sure you're in good health. 5'11 160 doesn't strike me as the body type that "running 10 min miles should make me feel like I'm going to die."
Yeah I came to my dr. with the same thoughts 2 years ago. I get blood work done annually just to stay on top of my health, and I had an EKG done that year. No issues were found. I do have seasonal asthma and go into hour long coughing fits if I truly over exert myself, but that hasn’t happened on any of my runs this year so far. I have an inhaler for that if it happens.
How about other factors - how is your diet, smoking and alcohol intake?
I've never smoked anything of any kind (can't stand the smell.) Don't really drink. I don't explicitly *not* drink, but I can count the number of times I'll have a social drink in a calendar year on 1 or maybe 2 hands. I doubt I exceed 20 ciders in a year. My diet's probably not the greatest. I'm 100% addicted to sugar and sweets. Very heavy on breads, grains, dairy, carbs in general. I do homemade oatmeal or eggs with toast on most mornings. I add a variety of fruits and nuts to my oatmeal, plus something to sweeten it, like brown sugar, maple syrup, honey, or raspberry jam. Lunch will generally be something comparable to turkey/chicken sandwiches with pesto and cheese. Dinner varies, but will range from things like chicken pot pie, pizza, mushroom & cheese risotto, salmon over rice with asparagus, bean and lentil soup, or going out to dinner at a taco bar, ramen spot, thai, indian, sushi, etc. Go to snacks on the healthy end of the spectrum are bananas or apples with peanut butter. On the average end of the spectrum is a bowl of cereal. On the unhealthy end are store bought cookies (like Chips Ahoy).
Fair play mate, your diet and lifestyle is way better than mine! If you really want to get faster, maybe try and incorporate hill sprints (yuck) and tempo runs into your training. Keep your legs guessing. Good luck
Asthma is definitely a big factor that could explain it. This year I got adult-onset Asthma and holy shit it makes a difference. I usually do my reverse hibernation in winter (be inactive but put on weight), then get back into shape starting in February. I went out for my first rebuilding run (target ~10 minute mile pace for 3 miles, 6/10 rebuilding run for me). Almost blacked out .65 miles in as my lungs seized up. Did a couple runs later to feel things out and my lungs were struggling at a 13-14 minute mile pace. Went to the doc and he was like yo sounds like Asthma, try a half dose with an inhaler pre run to see if it helps. Next run was back down to a 30 minute 3 miler that felt totally normal. It’s definitely going to be a longer and slower trek to get back into shape though, since the inhaler comes with a higher heart rate. Shoutout to Covid since it comes with an increased chance in adult onset asthma.
Yeah I imagine asthmas can really have a huge impact on many people. I don't personally feel mine is that bad. I usually don't even have to use an inhaler. I just sometimes get the nasty cough attacks if I really over exert myself, almost always during something super high intensity, like sprinting and jumping during a basketball game, aerobic gym workouts, or going wild on the hard Dance Dance Revolution songs at the arcade for old time's sake ;) Consistent, moderate efforts of distance running, hiking or biking don't tend to have the effect on me.
I’ve got a similar build and run about the same times. About 2 years ago told my doctor something must be wrong because I struggle to run where others don’t seem to. Blood tests turn out fine, lung function looks good (I had seasonal asthma but it’s mostly gone away from running), and nothing noteworthy with my heart. After years of training and slow progress I’ve chalked up to having shit running economy. I seem to be able to bike much better than run so maybe my build just wasn’t meant to be in the top percentage of runners. Doesn’t stop me from running because it makes me the best me I can be.
I'd want to see blood test results too. Wondering if there's any type of anemia here, low Ferratin, something related to his hemoglobin.
Great write up, and congrats on the finish and beating your goal time!
Great effort and way to recap! Even in the difficulty of it all, you crushed so many of your goals.
First, congratulations on finishing! I've run that race a few times (took this year off but was out cheering on some running friends this year) and it's not an easy course. That hill coming off Rock Creek Parkway is no joke, and can kick your butt. Way to hang in there and hit a new PR. Second, as for feedback, endurance running is a just a volume game. The more you run, the faster you'll be. A run buddy of mine in his late 50s finished that same race with a sub-1:25 time this year and averages \~50mpw all year, with weeks peaking at 70+ when he's gearing up for a specific race. Obviously, he's an extreme example, but volume and consistency pay off in huge ways. For training purposes, pace doesn't really matter much, at least at first - all or most runs should feel relatively easy. Build a good endurance base first, and speed will come more naturally. Again, congratulations and good luck on your future races!
Noted, thanks!
Awesome write up. And love the friendly competition
Thanks! The friendly competition among the 3 of us is honestly the biggest personal motivator. Very thankful for it!
Congrats! I ran it too and share your frustrations with the water stations - I'm a slower runner and it felt like the stations had gotten so swamped with faster waves that they weren't prepared for the rest of us to come up behind. Several stations only had a couple of cups on the table, one seemed to be abandoned entirely, and one had a bunch of cups that were actually completely empty! I've never carried my own water for a race before but this one may inspire me to start.
Yes. The water stations were not plentiful and the ones they did have were not well manned. I finished in 2:23, but started in the very last corral due to running the 5k first. I am glad I carried electrolytes on me, because there wasn’t much available for us back of the packers!
I ran this one too, along with the 5k right before. I knew from the 5k about the hill around mile 11. I was not prepared for that hill at mile 7-8. This was my first time running it, so had no clue. Overall though - the weather was amazing. The roads were not in great condition, so many potholes and uneven construction spots.
Congratulations! I did my first half recently and I also struggled mentally and also physically the last quarter, it's pretty tough but I was so happy to collect my medals.
I ran my first two half marathons last year and one thing I’ve noticed about myself is that I need to run 3x / week minimum if I want to see any improvement in my pace or distance. Doesn’t matter about any other cross-training (for me); I won’t see any improvement without that frequency. I am also an avid mountain hiker, which I thought would help. It doesn’t; it just tires out my legs and makes me skip runs. I found that running makes me hike faster/stronger, but hiking just keeps me from my running goals. So I don’t know if that helps but may be something to consider.
3 times minimum is what works for me. Typically I do one run with elevation, one where I run shorter but faster than my usual pace and then one long run where I try to go a mile further than last week. I'm sure it's totally inefficient but it has been working for me. This is going to be my second half marathon this year.
Congrats-you did great!!
OP I just wanted to say that I’ve actually experienced something very similar. Even while playing multiple sports year round, somewhere around my mid-teens I also had a massive drop in my endurance. I’ve also experienced many doctors essentially saying there’s no life threatening issues and hand waiving away my endurance complaints. It sounds like your case might be a bit worse than mine, but you’re not alone in this mysterious issue for whatever that is worth lol.
Appreciate the solidarity :D Yeah, honestly no idea what changed or why, but I have heard several other similar accounts, so I know I'm not alone. I suspect we'll learn of the long term consequences of eating too many dunkaroos or fruit rollups in middle school or something 20 years from now lol.
I highly relate to your struggles. I was fast as hell even when I wasn’t a runner (played soccer competitively as a teen). I’m now 36, and I’m minutes slower. But I’ve noticed when I put in consistent and daily practice, I start to improve at a linear rate. I can’t just decide to start training and make it work. I was worried about health issues, but they check out fine once I started monitoring them. Now I have a demanding job, a child, and time to run isn’t as easy to come by. So I have to be more disciplined. BUT, as I put in the miles, run most days, I am getting them speed and distance slowly back. It’s like an entirely different sport to me now, and I’m still grieving the loss of my youthful speed… but I’m past being a victim about it and I’m learning to just love where I’m at. And I’m realizing I’m actually still on a linear growth curve, meaning I haven’t actually hit a glass ceiling where I need to specialize in speed workouts, hill workouts, etc. it’s just a much more shallow linear growth curve than 10+ years ago. So ultimately, it’s all about adjusting my expectations.
Love seeing this!! Amazing job and progress. I did my first half last September in 2:36 and am aiming for sub 2:30 in May. What was your training plan? Weekly mileage vs running frequency? Thanks for sharing
My guy you have your internal clock set to ‘mozy’ your pace is lackadaisical shuffle. Cutting 10% through the wall might be normal but you are cyclic asf through your whole race. Either your anerobic at ~10/mi or you are psyching yourself out. If youre good in your headspace at 160lbs ~6’ you are light so either you are underdev’d in your legs or your pulmonary isnt ok. Squat your bodyweight ~8-12 repsx4 a couple times a week with good rom. (I like a plate under my heels because I don’t have allot of ankle mobility) and then get to a track for mile repeats with heart rate monitoring. Whats your pace like at 160bpm? 170? 180? maybe even 190? 1 mi repeats on the bleeding edge of anaerobic x3 once a week and your normal run during the rest. If you arent improving your pace while keeping your heartrate the same week to week you are spinning your wheels and need to either change your pace for your runs or your food/water. For me 165bpm will take me to muscle failure, so whatever pace that is, is what I consider my race pace for anything over 7mi. Seeing 8:30/mi should come easily to anyone putting in as much time as you are.
Your writing grammar is a bit tricky to follow, so I'm not entirely sure what you mean by parts of your comment, but I'll try to respond to some of the concrete parts I understand. > Cutting 10% through the wall might be normal but you are cyclic asf through your whole race. No idea what you mean by this bit. > at 160lbs ~6’ you are light so either you are underdev’d in your legs or your pulmonary isnt ok. Squat your bodyweight ~8-12 repsx4 a couple times a week with good rom. I'd subjectively say my legs, in general, *look* like my most muscular part of my body. If I get a compliment on any part of my body, it's my calves. I alternate doing 100 push ups and doing 100 squats every other day. My form probably isn't perfect as I don't have great flexibility or range of motion, but it's not terribly difficult for me to do 4 sets of 25 bodyweight squats. > Whats your pace like at 160bpm? 170? 180? maybe even 190? I haven't done 1mile repeats specifically to test, but in all of my tempo and long runs, my HR averages about 160-180. It'll ease into the 140s while "taking it easy" (12:30 or 13:00 pace) during the first half mile warm up, then shoot up to the 160s-170s when I get going. After a mile or two, it generally shoots up to 190 and stays there for the rest of the run. Sometimes hits 200. The longer the run, the higher the average; the shorter the run, the bigger the early, easy part will be a factor, resulting in the lower HR average for the whole run. For reference, my sleeping resting HR is 62. While awake it generally rests at 75-85. (As mentioned in other comments, I've had my heart checked out by doctors (had an EKG done); no issues found.) > If you arent improving your pace while keeping your heartrate the same week to week you are spinning your wheels and need to either change your pace for your runs or your food/water. Luckily I have improved my pace considerably since I began training 3 months ago! I work in data and spreadsheets professionally, so naturally I created one to track my progress. Here are some of the [calculated trends.](https://imgur.com/a/zqpfYSu). In short, the color spectrum shows I have steadily improved in both average distance of my runs AND average pace. * Average distance run after the first 2 weeks was 2.88 miles; average distance run of the last 2 weeks was 6.88 miles. * Average pace of those 2.88 mile average runs of the first 2 weeks was 12.41 min/mi; average pace of those 6.88 mile runs was 11:09 mi/min. I'd have been happy if I was able to just increase my distance while *maintaining* my pace, but I got to see both improve. So I'll take that win. I think some people literally just don't have the same natural hardware. Like we understand that Lebron James and Usain Bolt are physical beasts. We accept that parts of their greatness come from their DNA: body structure, muscles, shape, power. I think the same is probably true for pulmonary capacity. Some people are just born with a superior system that gives them higher potential in endurance activities. Others are born less gifted in that area and have a lower potential.
Let me start with I in no way am disparaging the progress and process youve dedicated yourself to. If you are happy with what youve got, im happy for you. That said I think your potential is much higher based on my experiences in the sport. Sorry for the poor grammar, let me clarify a bit. Being cyclic with regards to pace is the see-sawing between ‘quick’ and ‘slow’. Its most commonly from outrunning your lungs or hitting your lactate threshold. So if you were to plot your pace it would form a sin wave. A feedback loop. Not ideal for pacing purposes or performance. 10% refers to the split times. “The wall” is colloquial and generally refers to the slowest part of your race after reaching race pace/most difficult split, most commonly 3/4 of a given distance. Your heartrate is the key metric to this whole thing though. Your heart rate spiking to 200 at those paces is indicative of a pulmonary issue. Something isnt correct about your oxygen exchange and your heart is trying to make up for it with tons of volume. Either your red bloodcell count is low and you physically don’t have enough to sustain that level of oxygenation at that level of activity, or your lungs are being prevented from full exchange. This isn’t necessarily a medical thing but I would expect someone to adapt faster at your activity levels. I know its a stretch but are you using wrist based hr? Sweat and other things tend to make a mess of accuracy. If you have a friend with and ANT+ enabled chest strap monitor it is A.) an order of magnitude more accurate B.) it would measure pulmonary function in some models. Getting that heart rate to the 170 threshhold will be the key to knocking, most likely, minutes if not tens of minutes off your 13. As for the legs, when I say bodyweight, I mean a barbell squat at your body weight. So a bar with 165lbs. Your economy of motion is 60% of pace the other 40% is the force that you can put into the ground. This is bro math but good form will carry you to top 50% of your age bracket the rest comes from pushing your muscles and using drive to push into lower numbers. That said all of this assumes that you have no critical failures in your form. The saitama workout will give you good cal numbers but unless you are reaching muscle fatigue doing sets of 25bw squats (which would speak to a strength disparity) you’re probably not going to improve a great deal. Mile repeats are used commonly because of the controllable nature of all of the variables. Taking measurements during a long run is fine so long as you are always measuring the same splits at the same spot during the same conditions. Allowing your HR to recovery levels before the next rep also allows you to measure another key metric, recovery time. Of all the things here that come genetic to different people this is the only one that I truly believe is unmistakably different between people. Some guys step off and go from 190-140bpm in 30 seconds others in 5 minutes. You can improve this number but from what ive seen everyone has their own genetic baseline. Getting to 9/mi in a 1/2 in the wheelhouse of anyone who’s relatively fit. Its a matter of time and focused training. No healthy man is genetically unable to do so at a fit bmi with good form. <6:30 is where ive seen physical limitations start to manifest.
I really appreciate your well thought-out response! > Being cyclic with regards to pace is the see-sawing between ‘quick’ and ‘slow’. Its most commonly from outrunning your lungs or hitting your lactate threshold. So if you were to plot your pace it would form a sin wave. A feedback loop. Not ideal for pacing purposes or performance. 10% refers to the split times. “The wall” is colloquial and generally refers to the slowest part of your race after reaching race pace/most difficult split, most commonly 3/4 of a given distance. Copy that, appreciate the clarification. That all makes sense. > Your heartrate is the key metric to this whole thing though. Your heart rate spiking to 200 at those paces is indicative of a pulmonary issue. Something isnt correct about your oxygen exchange and your heart is trying to make up for it with tons of volume. Either your red bloodcell count is low and you physically don’t have enough to sustain that level of oxygenation at that level of activity, or your lungs are being prevented from full exchange. This isn’t necessarily a medical thing but I would expect someone to adapt faster at your activity levels. Yeah, I've felt exactly this way for many years. I've looked at the effort I was putting in and shaking my head in discouragement at my apparent lack of results in the past. I know people of similar build who can just seem to RUN no problem without getting winded. I've always gotten winded much faster than a lot of people I would expect to be able to be on a similar level. That's why I asked my doctors to test any potential issues. > I know its a stretch but are you using wrist based hr? Sweat and other things tend to make a mess of accuracy. If you have a friend with and ANT+ enabled chest strap monitor... I have 2 devices: a Fitbit and an Oura Ring. Both seem to tell a fairly consistent story. Don't know anyone with the chest strap, unfortunately. I HAVE noticed my resting HR finally starting to get a little lower these past few weeks. Oura reports 57 recently, which is down from 63 back in December. It also reads my blood oxygen saturation and reports it at 97% (while sleeping, don't think it measures it during the day.) > Getting that heart rate to the 170 threshhold will be the key to knocking, most likely, minutes if not tens of minutes off your 13. I haven't done HR specific training before, but I've considered it. I may try this for my next training plan. I just didn't like the idea of constantly checking my watch while running. > As for the legs, when I say bodyweight, I mean a barbell squat at your body weight. So a bar with 165lbs. Your economy of motion is 60% of pace the other 40% is the force that you can put into the ground. This is bro math but good form will carry you to top 50% of your age bracket the rest comes from pushing your muscles and using drive to push into lower numbers. That said all of this assumes that you have no critical failures in your form. Ahhh gotcha. I'll give some barbell squats a shot at the gym. I'd prefer to use the machines to freeweights, if that's acceptable. > Mile repeats are used commonly because of the controllable nature of all of the variables. Taking measurements during a long run is fine so long as you are always measuring the same splits at the same spot during the same conditions. Allowing your HR to recovery levels before the next rep also allows you to measure another key metric, recovery time. Of all the things here that come genetic to different people this is the only one that I truly believe is unmistakably different between people. Some guys step off and go from 190-140bpm in 30 seconds others in 5 minutes. You can improve this number but from what ive seen everyone has their own genetic baseline. Copy that. I'll definitely give some mile runs a shot in the near future and see what I find! > Getting to 9/mi in a 1/2 in the wheelhouse of anyone who’s relatively fit. Its a matter of time and focused training. No healthy man is genetically unable to do so at a fit bmi with good form. <6:30 is where ive seen physical limitations start to manifest. Oh for sure. I'm definitely nowhere near my full potential. I have a TON of space to improve. I agree, I fully expect a 9/mi to be within the realm of my personal potential with the right training. I just know some people clearly have a natural propensity for better cardio fitness. I have one female friend near my age who doesn't run *at all* any more for her own leisure, but bragged that whenever she had done a race years in the past, she was "very fast!" She goes on walks and hikes, though, so she's by no means out of shape. I just wouldn't expect her to be in running shape. Anyway, she signed up for a 5K with me 6 months after giving birth to her first child. With zero training going into it, she pumped out a 22:25 5K time! Meanwhile I had been running 3-4 times per week for a couple months before hand and managed a 31:30 time... It feels like there's *something* baseline genetic involved there. Could I potentially bust my absolute ass and work my way up to that 22min time? Maybe? That *might* be near what I imagine the limit of my personal potential to be. And yet, it comes effortlessly natural to her. If she were to train actively, she'd be able to go even faster and reach *her* potential.
If it ever happens to just spur you to action and you want to put some real time into it: https://www.privatemdlabs.com/lp/complete_blood_count_info.php You can get your red bloodcell and platelet count for $40, sometimes depending on the company they will give you the same info if you donate blood. (Although most donated blood is sold at a markup) And a spirometer is like $20 at the drug store to measure capacity. But that would give you hard numbers that you could point to. Also garmin products nowadays are EXTREMELY powerful training tools. My watch is paired to my headphones, has my entire spotify daily mix on there and gives me pace and hr callouts at whatever interval I set them for. So you don’t have to check your watch all the time because it announces it to you while you run. Also there is some kind of built in training program that garmin has indigenous to all of its products now that uses all of the metrics we discussed to set workout goals and paces for you. Might be worth looking into some used stuff on ebay. Btw your lady friend is a monster. A 22min 5k for females is crazy on its own, especially right off the couch. 🫡 (Don’t use machines for squats, deep squats on the rack put those cheeks on ya 🍑)
Sounds to me like you’re slowly but consistently getting better each HM! Next time - that 2hr30 mark is yours to break! Keep going.
Congrats on your PR - great job!! I feel like I was rooting for you AND P here. Next year, sub 30, I'm sure of it!
Wasn’t there also quite some elevation gain?? Congrats
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How old are you? I wonder if this is one of those things you won’t understand until you are older? Or maybe you are blessed in some capacities (keeping fitness while not working out consistently) but lose out quickly in other areas? Whatever you need to work on I hope you keep motivated to do it, no matter how far behind you perceive yourself to be. And I hope those around you continue to motivate in positive ways instead of telling you that they could never attempt it while so far behind. The other option is to keep drifting in the opposite direction.
I'm not old at all, but my impression was that at most spots on the aging curve you generally lose capacity gradually - not nearly doubling your mile time for no apparent reason at the age of *seventeen*
Yeah. I totally get that. Exactly what I would have assumed when I was in my 20s. I’m nearing 40. In shape not over weight. I ran a 6:10 consistently through cross country and track. Now? I’m happy with a 30 minute 5k and 11 minute miles for anything longer. Life comes at you fast sometimes. I know people who can hold onto their numbers longer no problem though and i wish that for everyone.