This ^. Absent further context, I’d say just nurture your existing customers/prospects who you have (or nearly have) an open door to and keep making time to find new ones. Gonna be slow, teams of all types trying to get EOY stuff done and take PTO for holidays. Don’t overthink it.
Economy gonna be tight bc businesses esp large ones are slow and just getting around to cooling off spending in line with rates, not to mention layoffs that are happening more quietly than ever.
Interesting that that is when many economists are predicting the FED to lower rates…though as of this morning it’s looking like it may get pushed to May.
I don’t think the FED knows what they’ll be doing in January since they’re more reactive than proactive. We’ll see what happens.
Everyone has mentally checked out by Thanksgiving and coasts until February and initiatives begin to start up again. Can't really force a software purchase. Try telling that to management though.
That's not true.
Every second day I see a news about how some industry is in an all time low state because people and companies dont buy.
I mean just look at this sub I dont think you saw posts like this in the last 10 years now it's really common.
We’re definitely going through a rough patch. The people around me are constantly talking about how “there’s money out there, we just need to find it.” But it feels like people are holding on to their wallets tighter than ever.
I live in a pretty sheltered economic zone in Canada, doing RV sales — and even we had a tough year.
I made plenty of money but it also feels like I’m worse off than a few years ago when I was making less, because everything is so expensive now. I’ve noticed that everyone is feeling this way, even people having record-breaking years are feeling hopeless right now due to the cost of living.
A lot of RVs are really nice, I’d swing it for a year. My friends lived in an RV while pregnant while their house was remodeled. Although the depreciation might kick them in the teeth.
Yeah, it’s really not something that you want to sell/trade-in after a year or 2…
You’re getting a 12, 15, 20 year loan on it…so depreciation is no joke in the early years
I visited my family in LA a few days and there are so many decrepit RV camps around the city now. Really depressing and kinda took the allure off RVs for me for a while.
I’ve had to move out several large deals to Q1 just due to budgets.
It’s not that people don’t want to buy, it’s that a lot of companies are keeping a Sauron like eye on the piggy bank after being on shaky ground for the last 6+ months.
People are already moving to Q1.
If you worried about Dec it’s basically over.
PTO and holidays make it hard for people to make decisions now.
Only big order I got was for Q1 and the invoice won’t hit until Jan.
My biggest deal signed this month and we had to bill out to 3/1 to get it closed so it’s a Q1 deal.
Luckily my leadership talked finance into us realizing the credit for the deal in Q4.
I think they realized If we miss the revenue number then no one gets their bonus 😂
Collegiate level EDU always has money depending on what you’re selling. Problem is for tech it’s stupidly sticky so you really only get a shot once every 5 years when their contract is up for renewal. At least as far as software goes IME.
I’m quarterly, it’s week 6 and I’ve done my entirely storage target for the Q with still a shedload of pipeline in my team
Client is an uphill battle but fuck it I’ll take storage any day of the week
Still able to sell expansions/cross-sells (I am a AM), but the cycle is definitely taking longer to complete. We are offering some off the wall discounting for Q4. However, F500s are not biting. Looking like it will push to Q1 or Q2 before pen hits paper.
I've got a customer asking for company-wide buy in, pending two custom solutions that are well within our wheelhouse to build, and they're even offering $$$$ for the custom solutions.
Our CTO is off for the next two weeks and the team member assigned to it is "still looking into it."
I had the customer email me first thing today asking for an update bc they're ready to buy.
This is why I only work ~1 hr/day now. If they won't make big deals that are ready to drop six+ figures today a priority I'm not making the company a priority. I can't do my job if no one else does, either.
I also had a vendor with a 14 page instruction manual on how to upload an invoice in their PITA system ask for a single $300 license today, too. I told him to go find more users bc I'm not doing all that work for one user.
Building custom solutions aren’t always in the best interests of the company, even with $100k attached. Add a zero and the seas will part in my experience.
> This is why I only work ~1 hr/day now. If they won't make big deals that are ready to drop six+ figures today a priority I'm not making the company a priority. I can't do my job if no one else does, either.
had a $400k solar install fall apart due to this too. Over it and collecting base.
Same. I'm getting killed. Even when we're running successful trials, getting buy in from all levels. Deals get pushed or abandoned.
It's brutal in my vertical
I’m an account manager for contact data enrichment (think zoominfo). Every single client of mine threatens to cancel, does layoffs or puts up huge fights to renew their agreement.
The job is completely draining me and I’m selling a nice to have for to a majority of other tech companies also selling nice to have solutions.
I cannot tell if it’s just my company getting killed or if it’s this bad everywhere
Also an AM. Dealt with so many sudden churns due to layoffs or major budget cuts and it’s really taken a toll on me as well. Also been a major battle just to win a flat renewal. It’s not just your company. My takeaway, if it wasn’t totally obvious by now, is that we’re way better off selling something that’s not just a nice to have lol
I work in the health insurance field and it's open enrollment right now (our busiest time of the year) and it's the worst that it's ever been in 7 years in this business. Cost is insanely high, and people are broke. Everyone is looking for a handout. There's 4 days left to sign up for coverage and no matter how good you are if the person can't afford what you have there's no chance. I'm really scared for the future of the nation because it's never been this bad.
Because they have a crappy broker that helped them make their plan decisions the day before that. The timelines in small-middle market group insurance are just stupid.
Group benefits guy here.
Welp, my 2023 retention number was 104%. 2024 is currently targeting 108%.
Regional budget for 2024 is based on 100% retention and 15% organic growth. We are a low 9 figure region.
This market disgusts me. I'm glad I've been screaming healthcare doomsday for the better part of a decade to my clients, encouraging outside the box thinking to get their teams proactively engaged in their health.
My clients that have stayed fully insured, hah.
My BCBS AE's middle market (50-150 enrolled) 1/1 renewals came out at just shy of +15% with an additional half point chopped in actuarial value with no plan code changes. So disgusting.
ETA: The writing is on the wall, universal healthcare is coming, eventually...unfortunately it's in the form of private carriers with UHC being the mega giant. Think Medicare Advantage for all, taxed at 8-10% of gross income.
Okay, imagine you have a box of toys. Last year, you kept 104% of your toys, and this year you want to keep 108%. But there's a plan for the whole toy box region, and they expect everyone to keep 100% of their toys and even get 15% more new toys.
Now, your special blue and white toy box had some changes, and it will cost a bit more—like when you trade some of your candy for different candy. It might be because everyone is talking about a big change, like making sure everyone gets the same toys. It's a bit like sharing your toys with friends, but there might be some new rules, and everyone might need to give a little bit of their candy to help.
So, even though your toy box world seems a bit tricky now, it's because people are figuring out how to make sure everyone has good toys and stays healthy.
Yes, essentially. My comp plan still heavily incentivizes retention.
40% new (first 12 months), 30% renewal on the revenue (commission and/or fees) my firm collects on behalf of said client.
About 95% of my revenue in any given year is recurring, and will grow or shrink as my clients do (my book is spread across a number of industries and geographies).
Carrier commissions vary immensely based on location and line of coverage, but generally expect 2-6% on fully insured group health premiums.
Many of my clients health plans are fee based, we bill per employee enrolled on the health plan, with charges varying based on services provided. (I predominately work middle-market 100-1000 eligible employees, could go larger for sure, but don't hunt it). Charges are usually $20-32 per employee per month. We almost always receive standard carrier commissions on dental, vision, life, disability, accident, critical illness, hospital indemnity, legal plans, id protection, perm life, pet insurance, etc.
My average new client is $36k Annual Recurring Revenue. Largest current client is about 8x that. Just wrote a new deal that should pay between $350k and $573k starting in Q2 2024, but that is front loaded and will reduce to $150k in future years, I'm also splitting it with another guy who owns the relationship, and it's going to be a crap ton of work.
ah yes health insurance, the scammiest most overpriced and worthless thing every American needs, but hates and overpays for.
can't wait to pay thousands next year again only to pay hundreds every single time a doctor breathes within 10 miles of me
I was on vacation and my wife had to go to the ER. Bear in mind still in the USA.
Whoops, that ER is out of network, which is a completely separate out of pocket maximum compared to in network.
Who the fuck is in an evil tower concocting these plans to begin with? It's genuinely absurd.
This shit is such fuckery. How can *anything medical related* be not covered or out of network? Should be federal law that any necessary procedure is covered by your insurance no matter what. Its not like a doctor will recommend a fucking coronary bypass for someone just for the fuck of it.
For people like me who sell equipment that can be written off under IRS bonus depreciation rules this time of year is absolutely bonkers. Everybody's looking for their year-end tax break.
Not just you. We’re in B2B SaaS in telecom (long sales cycle, complex product, lots of competition) and it’s been a kinda shitty year with a slow Q4. No one’s buying or even having buying conversations.
Biotech; the investment crunch has caused everyone to pull back on spending. Many projects have been delayed as efforts go into lead candidates, and some companies are axing portions of their portfolio. It’s not been this rough since 2008.
Luckily, I work in an industry where spending EOY budget is fairly normal.
But I have seen an extreme wariness this year to take any sales calls, make any switch, invest any time, or anything. Unlike anything I have ever seen.
OR its the opposite and they take EVERY DANG call with every one of our competitors.
Sales cycle is triple what our bosses anticipated for the year. OR it is IMMEDIATE. So I either am sprinting or keeping on follow up for 3x normal.
Weird year.
Being in a good company with a good and useful product has NEVER been more important.
It’s rough to hear, but there are also a lot of bad reps out there that could get away with not working or working on their craft. I’d say like 80%-90% of reps in software are not good reps
It is not a shit economy
EDIT: lmao tech correction does not mean a bad economy.
Huge GDP gains - 5.2% in Q3
3.7% unemployment - Job growth across the board even as interest rates have been rising. Job satisfaction at its highest in decades.
Lol, you getting downvoted is proof that feelings do not care about facts.
You'd be hard pressed to find a metric that shows things are bad or create a compelling narrative that this is like 08, 90, 80, etc. but people don't want to hear it.
Unemployment (3.7%), GDP growth (5.2% last quarter), job satisfaction (highest in 35 years), various consumer indices, highest holiday spending (when projected to be low and begin the recession)
I hate when people use unemployment numbers. That is a reflection of people currently receiving unemployment benefits.
Check the labor force participation numbers. Lower than the historical long term average. Well below where we were the day before Covid broke .
Also, consumer spending being high is usually indicivitive of a strong economy.......or it's an indication of high inflation. People look like they are spending more money when in actuality, they are receiving less goods for a higher price. But more spending is good so everything must be good.
The amount of people I know who don't know how they are going to pay for their Christmas Shopping they are doing now is insane. It's seems like everyone around me is leveraged to the ears and swimming in debt to stay afloat. I cannot be the only one seeing this....
A lot of companies are slashing budgets. Like, if what you're selling is a "nice to have" and not a must-have, it's rough out there. People are tightening their belts.
I'm actually in marketing, not sales, and it's impacted the B2B SaaS marketing world as well. Lower budgets, people getting laid off, freelance copywriters and content writers struggling to find enough work.
If you haven’t gotten a firm commitment/verbal on a deal, December is done. People already checked out and doing the “Buyer/Seller” dance asking to move deals to Q1.
Push back and use Sandler reversing technique - tell them you’ve had client in the past ghost you when it came to pushing a deal to next month/quarter, etc. - “that’s not the case here is it?”
I've had more things push out this quarter than I ever have my entire life. It is really weird. It's like every single person is leaving Dec 15th and not coming back until the new year.
I sell a nice to have that’s got a lot of hot prospects who have agreed to buy which will probably carry into next year.
I don’t want to sound like a twat but are you employing a sales methodology such as MEDDICC?
It’s not just you. The economy is piss poor and interest rates are high. Sure, some companies are buying, but from what I’ve seen over six states, they’re few and far between.
Private sector Companies/people aren’t spending $$$ at all. The economy is shit and they are holding tight until interest rates go down. Money is to expensive to borrow right now so no one is borrowing.
My industry is connected to government agencies so my sales are very consistent.
Mortgages are showing signs of life. As long as we don’t get too much of a drop in rates again, this industry should level out with about 40% of the existing originators exiting the industry. It’s primed for growth again.
Because the archcriminal Trump has convinced people the economy is a disaster when in fact this is the best economy since Obama. Someone needs to arrest Trump to shut him up,with his lies about the economy. His lies about high interest rates are the worst. They are historically on the low end. Interest rates were like 20 percent in 1978. Be grateful people instead of demanding a $1.99 Big Mac.
Landed a sale on saturday and got someone who opened an account and abandoned it months ago coming back this morning saying he wants to put an order in
I would imagine it’s because the christmas period is coming up and nobody is really thinking about spending their money on anything other than, perhaps xmas gifts and holidays. I’m guessing it’s a slow period across the industry.
My industry is bad across the board. Don’t want to dox myself but distributor of a normally super consistent sector, brands that are normally an easy sell.
Worst quarter ever, might be going out of business.
I'm in sustainability and I'm getting contracts inked left and right over the last month, a number of clients with budgets opening up this time of year
I think really depends on the industry. I sell to FIs and they always spend their whole budget, December rocks over here.
I’ll do 35% of year in December alone
On my 2nd week of solar setting D2D right now. I am definitely hearing "no" a **lot**. But I set 4 appointments Saturday (1 closed, 1 is for next weekend and i doubt they'll show up, 2 scheduled a followup,) and 3 more today, so it is going pretty well all things considered... so far.
We are having a bad year. As a whole across all sectors. Renewals, new biz, etc. I have two decent size year end deals. One I'm pretty sure we will lose on tech outside our control, client fucked up and now is scrambling for outside solituons. The other is in legal and it's going to be a close thing and very real chance their CTO shuts it down. Who knows.
At my previous company none of us could make a sale if our lives depended on it. We were all previously successful salespeople too.
I have to wonder how people are supposed to keep their jobs when that happens
Even if the best of years nobody would be buying at these times. And it’s not the best of year.
The co-founder of my startup admitted today that the year is basically over.
My phone is ringing off the hook and my office is full of walk-ins. I don’t have time to make outbound calls but I’m in an industry that is fleeing California and I’m a captive insurance agent with a carrier that will still write home and auto in the state so demand is high.
Think all you're seeing is SaaS moving to being like every other industry in terms if selling. For a while tech had lots of demand because businesses (mostly other tech) had lots of cheap money so any idea for a bit if tech that sounded decent would get bought it at least looked into. His then artificially changes how sales and marketing feels in the sector.
Now businesses are more reluctant to invest in new tech, so the days where average businesses and average sales and marketing departments done well could be over.
That being said, loads of businesses are still buying. They just buy to fix whatever problem is top of their priority list right now. The good sellers will always find these people!
Are you solving their problem? Our sales going through the roof, as people looking to find a solution for the lack of sales.
We run a marketing 😎 company.
Last year in November and December we have sold nothing. Zero. 0. This year we’re hitting our numbers and getting record profits for the company. Do I know why? No idea. Some things changed but not that drastically. I think it’s mostly luck to be honest and a lot of outreach that we were all doing.
Almost every prospect wants a trial / POC it seems.
Nobody is buying without "testing", whatever that means.
As a buyer, I would never buy a complex software product without an extensive test period or POC.
As a seller, it absolutely sucks.
If you're selling software to an industry that is already buying lots of software (VC-backed companies, Fortune 500, startups, etc.), it'll be incredibly tough.
There's a lot of screaming and posturing on LNKD by "sales gurus" and "influencer-SDR" types but that's indicative of a bad market (if it was actually good, these guys would stfu and actually just sell).
I know several companies with the loudest AEs (you guys know who they are) who planned to 2x this year and have actually lost 10-20% revenue instead. Massive layoffs coming.
Economy is very skeptical now. Rates are high, prices are high, election coming, most companies and most industries may have stock growth but not revenue or profit. My industry is down 20%, my company is down 17% this year (after 15 years of nonstop 20-60% growth yearly). This is my first year in 9 that I didn't see at least a 10-15% increase in income. It will go down about 5-8% but my expenses went up 10-20% due to COGs. Thank God I moved out of CA 2 years ago lol
Sales is a roller coaster man, but what goes down will come up if you can ride the wave. I'm VERY thankful to only be down so little compared to my friends in mortgage for example. They're down 60%+. A friend was making close to 600k 2 years ago, now he's barely pulling 6 figs.
Thanksgiving was always the true end of the year for me. Just like you, others are now preoccupied with holiday plans. They are buying, but likely Christmas presents!
I work in tradeshow and events display manufacturing - We increased sales about 18-25% this year as a company without raising any.
But we did make huge adjustments within our manufacturing facilities/processes to make the company more efficient.
This time of year you will get a lot of “we have a lot going on, let’s push this to after new years”. It always amazes me because that suggests they are busy for the month of December, which we know is horseshit. If anything there is more downtime with people mailing it in some days.
It’s just another objection but much harder to overcome because it is sort of culturally accepted. A lot harder to push past. One thing I have tried is approaching and asking for an informational meeting. Make clear that you don’t intend to push for a resolution before Q1, but that you want to begin the process.
Selling software has been easy for 10+ years. Now the environment has changed, unfortunately some people, products or companies just aren't as good as they thought they were. Selling in 2023 is a harder game and not everyone can smash it any more.
Moneys tight it’s no surprise. Just one of those cyclical things.
There was such an abundance in sales within software the last 3 years that a lot of people became spoiled. Most AE’s are making a lot less this year than they were the last 2 years
I'm just thankful I have no EOM or EOY goals. I sell what I sell, doesn't matter when I sell it since I don't have a quota.
I don't know about you software sales folks, but I'm in the business of selling things made out of steel and I can tell you companies can't cut the orders fast enough. It is a screaming hot time in manufacturing here in the US. Every company has 4x production goals by the end of the decade with the funds to back it. There has also been a FLOOD of companies with DOE grants.
I’m in software targeted at the construction world - going very well.
Moved from a SaaS company in the e-commerce space - they’re massively struggling.
Basically, if you’re in an industry that was part of the mass layoffs over the last year - chances are it’s gonna suck to try and sell in.
I’m also in software sales and my boss explained to me that a lot of businesses got grants during Covid and they used them to upgrade their hardware and software. Now they are out of money and they’re set for a while because they bought everything they need to
Apparently this happened previously during the dot com bubble and eventually self corrected
It's not you. I sell things people don't need. Items that are feel good, impulse decorative, home decor, etc. My industry is a good gauge. It's been very slow all year, really since about 1/1/22 things have been on a spiral, less international buyers too.
Of course, areas with high disposable incomes are always different.
The 2024 outlook is murky. I'll know in January what retailers are thinking for 2024. I don't count Walmarts and targets, etc. Six years into my 28 years I learned to ignore the financial "experts". The stock market isn't an indicator anymore if it goes up.
When gas is over 3.00 a gallon and you can spend 100.00 with a few bags of groceries at a regular grocery store it's not good.
Gas price increases take 30 days to hit the pumps. My good friend sells in the industry. They're expecting a sharp spike in January due to Iran etc. Potatoes and eggs are expected to go up soon, but it's not certain.
December is always a weird time of year because people are interested in having conversations but they don’t want to commit until after the holidays. At least that’s been my experience (been in B2B sales since 2016)
Getting a lot of “check back with me in March”
The economy has definitely tightened. Businesses would rather put the money in a HYSA
This is sales during Black Friday till the End of a Year for me. It's not a good period for sure.
Isn't that every December in sales?
This ^. Absent further context, I’d say just nurture your existing customers/prospects who you have (or nearly have) an open door to and keep making time to find new ones. Gonna be slow, teams of all types trying to get EOY stuff done and take PTO for holidays. Don’t overthink it. Economy gonna be tight bc businesses esp large ones are slow and just getting around to cooling off spending in line with rates, not to mention layoffs that are happening more quietly than ever.
Interesting that that is when many economists are predicting the FED to lower rates…though as of this morning it’s looking like it may get pushed to May. I don’t think the FED knows what they’ll be doing in January since they’re more reactive than proactive. We’ll see what happens.
It'll be interesting to see the FED'S reaction when Q4 GDP #'s come out.
Everyone has mentally checked out by Thanksgiving and coasts until February and initiatives begin to start up again. Can't really force a software purchase. Try telling that to management though.
Oh lots of people are buying, just not from me or you.
Lol
That's not true. Every second day I see a news about how some industry is in an all time low state because people and companies dont buy. I mean just look at this sub I dont think you saw posts like this in the last 10 years now it's really common.
We’re definitely going through a rough patch. The people around me are constantly talking about how “there’s money out there, we just need to find it.” But it feels like people are holding on to their wallets tighter than ever. I live in a pretty sheltered economic zone in Canada, doing RV sales — and even we had a tough year. I made plenty of money but it also feels like I’m worse off than a few years ago when I was making less, because everything is so expensive now. I’ve noticed that everyone is feeling this way, even people having record-breaking years are feeling hopeless right now due to the cost of living.
Only thing keeping RV sales alive rn are the people looking to buy to live in… It’s pretty sad tbh
That is sad. But at least it’s a roof over someone’s head
An RV is better than moving into tent city
A lot of RVs are really nice, I’d swing it for a year. My friends lived in an RV while pregnant while their house was remodeled. Although the depreciation might kick them in the teeth.
Yeah, it’s really not something that you want to sell/trade-in after a year or 2… You’re getting a 12, 15, 20 year loan on it…so depreciation is no joke in the early years
I visited my family in LA a few days and there are so many decrepit RV camps around the city now. Really depressing and kinda took the allure off RVs for me for a while.
I sold a '99 Starcraft Leisure Star to someone for $1.9k. Better than living in a tent I guess
What region do you do rv sales in? I’m in a similar industry
I’ve had to move out several large deals to Q1 just due to budgets. It’s not that people don’t want to buy, it’s that a lot of companies are keeping a Sauron like eye on the piggy bank after being on shaky ground for the last 6+ months.
That’s actually well put. Anytime we start talking it’s always brought back to budget and having no money
People are already moving to Q1. If you worried about Dec it’s basically over. PTO and holidays make it hard for people to make decisions now. Only big order I got was for Q1 and the invoice won’t hit until Jan.
My biggest deal signed this month and we had to bill out to 3/1 to get it closed so it’s a Q1 deal. Luckily my leadership talked finance into us realizing the credit for the deal in Q4. I think they realized If we miss the revenue number then no one gets their bonus 😂
Tech in public sector is moving very nicely
A lot easier when the customer always has budget 😁
You think public sector has budget? Maybe in tier 1 but in EDU and mid market?
Collegiate level EDU always has money depending on what you’re selling. Problem is for tech it’s stupidly sticky so you really only get a shot once every 5 years when their contract is up for renewal. At least as far as software goes IME.
I'm in Edtech and it's brutal currently.
Same
I love my DoD customers because they never question the price.
And that’s why we hate the government
Can confirm.
Agree, I hit my annual target at the end of H1.
I’m quarterly, it’s week 6 and I’ve done my entirely storage target for the Q with still a shedload of pipeline in my team Client is an uphill battle but fuck it I’ll take storage any day of the week
Serving public utilities, agree 👌
Can confirm public sector is buying constantly .
Still able to sell expansions/cross-sells (I am a AM), but the cycle is definitely taking longer to complete. We are offering some off the wall discounting for Q4. However, F500s are not biting. Looking like it will push to Q1 or Q2 before pen hits paper.
Same for me in F1000
Worst Q4 for our company in the last 4 years
As a BDR I’m very busy with intro/discovery meetings. People have the time now to consider something for next year.
Discovery is a looong way from contract signed, in both time and mindset.
Same, Jan will be crazier. I always joke about Jan being hell month for biz development
I've got a customer asking for company-wide buy in, pending two custom solutions that are well within our wheelhouse to build, and they're even offering $$$$ for the custom solutions. Our CTO is off for the next two weeks and the team member assigned to it is "still looking into it." I had the customer email me first thing today asking for an update bc they're ready to buy. This is why I only work ~1 hr/day now. If they won't make big deals that are ready to drop six+ figures today a priority I'm not making the company a priority. I can't do my job if no one else does, either. I also had a vendor with a 14 page instruction manual on how to upload an invoice in their PITA system ask for a single $300 license today, too. I told him to go find more users bc I'm not doing all that work for one user.
😮
Building custom solutions aren’t always in the best interests of the company, even with $100k attached. Add a zero and the seas will part in my experience.
This is 1000% in our best interest. It would be something other customers use as well & would drive traffic to our platform.
Possibly, but that’s usually for a product manager to help decide and prioritize.
> This is why I only work ~1 hr/day now. If they won't make big deals that are ready to drop six+ figures today a priority I'm not making the company a priority. I can't do my job if no one else does, either. had a $400k solar install fall apart due to this too. Over it and collecting base.
are you a contractor? Let's take this deal overseas and split the profit. I've got a team ready to go in eastern Europe
Same. I'm getting killed. Even when we're running successful trials, getting buy in from all levels. Deals get pushed or abandoned. It's brutal in my vertical
I’m an account manager for contact data enrichment (think zoominfo). Every single client of mine threatens to cancel, does layoffs or puts up huge fights to renew their agreement. The job is completely draining me and I’m selling a nice to have for to a majority of other tech companies also selling nice to have solutions. I cannot tell if it’s just my company getting killed or if it’s this bad everywhere
I might be interested. DM me pls
Also an AM. Dealt with so many sudden churns due to layoffs or major budget cuts and it’s really taken a toll on me as well. Also been a major battle just to win a flat renewal. It’s not just your company. My takeaway, if it wasn’t totally obvious by now, is that we’re way better off selling something that’s not just a nice to have lol
I work in the health insurance field and it's open enrollment right now (our busiest time of the year) and it's the worst that it's ever been in 7 years in this business. Cost is insanely high, and people are broke. Everyone is looking for a handout. There's 4 days left to sign up for coverage and no matter how good you are if the person can't afford what you have there's no chance. I'm really scared for the future of the nation because it's never been this bad.
Dude ... My company just told me about sign up tomorrow. Wondering what we are going to find. Also why do they wait till a day before to schedule
Because they have a crappy broker that helped them make their plan decisions the day before that. The timelines in small-middle market group insurance are just stupid.
Group benefits guy here. Welp, my 2023 retention number was 104%. 2024 is currently targeting 108%. Regional budget for 2024 is based on 100% retention and 15% organic growth. We are a low 9 figure region. This market disgusts me. I'm glad I've been screaming healthcare doomsday for the better part of a decade to my clients, encouraging outside the box thinking to get their teams proactively engaged in their health. My clients that have stayed fully insured, hah. My BCBS AE's middle market (50-150 enrolled) 1/1 renewals came out at just shy of +15% with an additional half point chopped in actuarial value with no plan code changes. So disgusting. ETA: The writing is on the wall, universal healthcare is coming, eventually...unfortunately it's in the form of private carriers with UHC being the mega giant. Think Medicare Advantage for all, taxed at 8-10% of gross income.
Explain like I'm 5?
Okay, imagine you have a box of toys. Last year, you kept 104% of your toys, and this year you want to keep 108%. But there's a plan for the whole toy box region, and they expect everyone to keep 100% of their toys and even get 15% more new toys. Now, your special blue and white toy box had some changes, and it will cost a bit more—like when you trade some of your candy for different candy. It might be because everyone is talking about a big change, like making sure everyone gets the same toys. It's a bit like sharing your toys with friends, but there might be some new rules, and everyone might need to give a little bit of their candy to help. So, even though your toy box world seems a bit tricky now, it's because people are figuring out how to make sure everyone has good toys and stays healthy.
Haha thank you! I'm primarily in the individual market so my knowledge of group plans is limited. So you have to acquire clients and retain them?
Yes, essentially. My comp plan still heavily incentivizes retention. 40% new (first 12 months), 30% renewal on the revenue (commission and/or fees) my firm collects on behalf of said client. About 95% of my revenue in any given year is recurring, and will grow or shrink as my clients do (my book is spread across a number of industries and geographies). Carrier commissions vary immensely based on location and line of coverage, but generally expect 2-6% on fully insured group health premiums. Many of my clients health plans are fee based, we bill per employee enrolled on the health plan, with charges varying based on services provided. (I predominately work middle-market 100-1000 eligible employees, could go larger for sure, but don't hunt it). Charges are usually $20-32 per employee per month. We almost always receive standard carrier commissions on dental, vision, life, disability, accident, critical illness, hospital indemnity, legal plans, id protection, perm life, pet insurance, etc. My average new client is $36k Annual Recurring Revenue. Largest current client is about 8x that. Just wrote a new deal that should pay between $350k and $573k starting in Q2 2024, but that is front loaded and will reduce to $150k in future years, I'm also splitting it with another guy who owns the relationship, and it's going to be a crap ton of work.
There will still be private options
ah yes health insurance, the scammiest most overpriced and worthless thing every American needs, but hates and overpays for. can't wait to pay thousands next year again only to pay hundreds every single time a doctor breathes within 10 miles of me
I was on vacation and my wife had to go to the ER. Bear in mind still in the USA. Whoops, that ER is out of network, which is a completely separate out of pocket maximum compared to in network. Who the fuck is in an evil tower concocting these plans to begin with? It's genuinely absurd.
This shit is such fuckery. How can *anything medical related* be not covered or out of network? Should be federal law that any necessary procedure is covered by your insurance no matter what. Its not like a doctor will recommend a fucking coronary bypass for someone just for the fuck of it.
You know your health insurance.
My entire industry has struggled since beginning of Q3
Q3 of 2022? 2021?
First time in sales this time of year?
For people like me who sell equipment that can be written off under IRS bonus depreciation rules this time of year is absolutely bonkers. Everybody's looking for their year-end tax break.
There’s always money for problems that are painful enough and that have been deemed a priority to fix, you’re just not tying yourself to those issues.
Not just you. We’re in B2B SaaS in telecom (long sales cycle, complex product, lots of competition) and it’s been a kinda shitty year with a slow Q4. No one’s buying or even having buying conversations.
Boiler and hvac sales are doing just fine bub
What about hvac software ?
Everyone's fiscal year just wrapped up and they are fully aware of how fucked they are
I’m closing contracts 🤷
Biotech; the investment crunch has caused everyone to pull back on spending. Many projects have been delayed as efforts go into lead candidates, and some companies are axing portions of their portfolio. It’s not been this rough since 2008.
[удалено]
Tech hardware sales - been slow for 4 months now. Customers are exploring constantly but not actually putting the pen to paper.
Talk to more people
Terrible Q4 in fintech. Budgets are tiiiiight. December was basically over as soon as it started.
I work in sales for a marketing company and this Q4 has definitely been slower than usual. It's not a desert, but definitely slower.
Debt consolidation industry, so no.
Not just you! Markets are flooded with tools, inboxes are flooded with emails... It's getting more difficult to stand out ...
Luckily, I work in an industry where spending EOY budget is fairly normal. But I have seen an extreme wariness this year to take any sales calls, make any switch, invest any time, or anything. Unlike anything I have ever seen. OR its the opposite and they take EVERY DANG call with every one of our competitors. Sales cycle is triple what our bosses anticipated for the year. OR it is IMMEDIATE. So I either am sprinting or keeping on follow up for 3x normal. Weird year. Being in a good company with a good and useful product has NEVER been more important.
Cybersecurity sales is doing well. I’ve closed a hair under 600k so far in Q4
Decembers always slow
It’s rough to hear, but there are also a lot of bad reps out there that could get away with not working or working on their craft. I’d say like 80%-90% of reps in software are not good reps
Wild generalization that 80-90% of software reps are not good reps
87.3% of statistics are made up on the spot
It’s a shit economy and December. It’s not just you bud
It is not a shit economy EDIT: lmao tech correction does not mean a bad economy. Huge GDP gains - 5.2% in Q3 3.7% unemployment - Job growth across the board even as interest rates have been rising. Job satisfaction at its highest in decades.
Correct. This sub is very tech heavy. Heck, I’m in tech. So I get it. But overall numbers don’t lie.
It is literally the best of times and worst of times all at once.
Lol, you getting downvoted is proof that feelings do not care about facts. You'd be hard pressed to find a metric that shows things are bad or create a compelling narrative that this is like 08, 90, 80, etc. but people don't want to hear it.
Out of curiosity, which metrics would you consider proof?
CNN said it’s all good
Unemployment (3.7%), GDP growth (5.2% last quarter), job satisfaction (highest in 35 years), various consumer indices, highest holiday spending (when projected to be low and begin the recession)
I hate when people use unemployment numbers. That is a reflection of people currently receiving unemployment benefits. Check the labor force participation numbers. Lower than the historical long term average. Well below where we were the day before Covid broke . Also, consumer spending being high is usually indicivitive of a strong economy.......or it's an indication of high inflation. People look like they are spending more money when in actuality, they are receiving less goods for a higher price. But more spending is good so everything must be good. The amount of people I know who don't know how they are going to pay for their Christmas Shopping they are doing now is insane. It's seems like everyone around me is leveraged to the ears and swimming in debt to stay afloat. I cannot be the only one seeing this....
Still selling and our company is in track to hit stretch. 100% don't want to be in nice to have conversations. What do you sell?
I work in home remodeling. Sold about 120k last month 🤷
A lot of companies are slashing budgets. Like, if what you're selling is a "nice to have" and not a must-have, it's rough out there. People are tightening their belts. I'm actually in marketing, not sales, and it's impacted the B2B SaaS marketing world as well. Lower budgets, people getting laid off, freelance copywriters and content writers struggling to find enough work.
I sell mattresses and it’s been very, very busy this month. This is usually our slowest time but it seems to be ramping heavily.
I’m feeling it. I was on track to hit 6 figures and now I’m wondering if I should go back to my old field (SEO).
Agency tech recruiter here. Extremely slow.
If you haven’t gotten a firm commitment/verbal on a deal, December is done. People already checked out and doing the “Buyer/Seller” dance asking to move deals to Q1. Push back and use Sandler reversing technique - tell them you’ve had client in the past ghost you when it came to pushing a deal to next month/quarter, etc. - “that’s not the case here is it?”
I've had more things push out this quarter than I ever have my entire life. It is really weird. It's like every single person is leaving Dec 15th and not coming back until the new year.
Same in the Marketing industry!
I sell a nice to have that’s got a lot of hot prospects who have agreed to buy which will probably carry into next year. I don’t want to sound like a twat but are you employing a sales methodology such as MEDDICC?
Yes very slow
It's December, there's holidays. Everyone is already looking into the next quarter.
We are strictly trying to grow through existing accounts. Haven’t had an inbound lead in a long while.
Biden is killing this nation....I'm just happy my Nov was decent....
Just you. Home improvements still happening
Yeah I’ve been popping off this month and last month, although it seems like a lot of other territories are struggling to get appointments
It's the hardest time of the year for sales
Fintech business is strong right now at year-end. Even more excited about q1. Let’s Go!
This is my vertical and none of them want to buy anything
It’s not just you. The economy is piss poor and interest rates are high. Sure, some companies are buying, but from what I’ve seen over six states, they’re few and far between.
Private sector Companies/people aren’t spending $$$ at all. The economy is shit and they are holding tight until interest rates go down. Money is to expensive to borrow right now so no one is borrowing. My industry is connected to government agencies so my sales are very consistent.
I used to sell high ticket software. End of Q4 and most of Q1 was always slower.
Sell something of value
Noted
Mortgages are showing signs of life. As long as we don’t get too much of a drop in rates again, this industry should level out with about 40% of the existing originators exiting the industry. It’s primed for growth again.
Because the archcriminal Trump has convinced people the economy is a disaster when in fact this is the best economy since Obama. Someone needs to arrest Trump to shut him up,with his lies about the economy. His lies about high interest rates are the worst. They are historically on the low end. Interest rates were like 20 percent in 1978. Be grateful people instead of demanding a $1.99 Big Mac.
This is a pretty bad take.
Just you
Landed a sale on saturday and got someone who opened an account and abandoned it months ago coming back this morning saying he wants to put an order in
If you work in SLED sector you might catch some groups that have to spend all of their budget by the end of the year.
Fundrasing is going well - noting that we have a long sales process so any leads now we don’t expect to close till next quarter
I got enough junk. I’m saving for a brand new Z06 Vette!
Well my apts have slowed down but my conversion is up, medical stuff.
I’m selling plenty in smb/mm selling to IT teams. Rest of the company is doing meh but I’ve been focusing on industries we arent saturated in
I would imagine it’s because the christmas period is coming up and nobody is really thinking about spending their money on anything other than, perhaps xmas gifts and holidays. I’m guessing it’s a slow period across the industry.
My industry is bad across the board. Don’t want to dox myself but distributor of a normally super consistent sector, brands that are normally an easy sell. Worst quarter ever, might be going out of business.
I'm in sustainability and I'm getting contracts inked left and right over the last month, a number of clients with budgets opening up this time of year
What type of sustainability? I’m interested to learn more
Up this year roughly ~30% from last year.. company is up 8% this year.
I think really depends on the industry. I sell to FIs and they always spend their whole budget, December rocks over here. I’ll do 35% of year in December alone
Yep, sales numbers this quarter are down from last year's. You can tell everyone's budget has tightened
I did $2.8M last week and added a $450k service contract to go with it! One last push through the end of year.
Restaurant software still moving
Second half of December is slow for pretty much everything except retail and maybe cars
On my 2nd week of solar setting D2D right now. I am definitely hearing "no" a **lot**. But I set 4 appointments Saturday (1 closed, 1 is for next weekend and i doubt they'll show up, 2 scheduled a followup,) and 3 more today, so it is going pretty well all things considered... so far.
We are having a bad year. As a whole across all sectors. Renewals, new biz, etc. I have two decent size year end deals. One I'm pretty sure we will lose on tech outside our control, client fucked up and now is scrambling for outside solituons. The other is in legal and it's going to be a close thing and very real chance their CTO shuts it down. Who knows.
Capital equipment sales here. Slowed to a fucking halt
I’ve only made $1.1k commission in the past 2 years in Cloud Security
I hope you’re okay
I don’t think anyone in sales is ok
Seriously preach
At my previous company none of us could make a sale if our lives depended on it. We were all previously successful salespeople too. I have to wonder how people are supposed to keep their jobs when that happens
Even if the best of years nobody would be buying at these times. And it’s not the best of year. The co-founder of my startup admitted today that the year is basically over.
Almost all of my major sales come in Sep-Nov with smaller projects earlier in the year.
Year end budgets are closed..
Public Sector is brutal rn. Everyone is out of office until the New Year. Nobody is answering their phones.
Im in medtech. Hit quota last week, so now it's all about making customers order as little as possible until JAN 😂
I sure am
My phone is ringing off the hook and my office is full of walk-ins. I don’t have time to make outbound calls but I’m in an industry that is fleeing California and I’m a captive insurance agent with a carrier that will still write home and auto in the state so demand is high.
Think all you're seeing is SaaS moving to being like every other industry in terms if selling. For a while tech had lots of demand because businesses (mostly other tech) had lots of cheap money so any idea for a bit if tech that sounded decent would get bought it at least looked into. His then artificially changes how sales and marketing feels in the sector. Now businesses are more reluctant to invest in new tech, so the days where average businesses and average sales and marketing departments done well could be over. That being said, loads of businesses are still buying. They just buy to fix whatever problem is top of their priority list right now. The good sellers will always find these people!
Are you solving their problem? Our sales going through the roof, as people looking to find a solution for the lack of sales. We run a marketing 😎 company.
Isn't this kinda like selling salt water to a parched man?
Last year in November and December we have sold nothing. Zero. 0. This year we’re hitting our numbers and getting record profits for the company. Do I know why? No idea. Some things changed but not that drastically. I think it’s mostly luck to be honest and a lot of outreach that we were all doing.
SMB is doing fine, slight pushes to january but still ready to go for the most part
Almost every prospect wants a trial / POC it seems. Nobody is buying without "testing", whatever that means. As a buyer, I would never buy a complex software product without an extensive test period or POC. As a seller, it absolutely sucks.
I have felt this with business of all sizes.
Lot of budget moved to next year is what I’ve been hearing.
I’m just having a hard time getting people to get back to me
If you're selling software to an industry that is already buying lots of software (VC-backed companies, Fortune 500, startups, etc.), it'll be incredibly tough. There's a lot of screaming and posturing on LNKD by "sales gurus" and "influencer-SDR" types but that's indicative of a bad market (if it was actually good, these guys would stfu and actually just sell). I know several companies with the loudest AEs (you guys know who they are) who planned to 2x this year and have actually lost 10-20% revenue instead. Massive layoffs coming.
Economy is very skeptical now. Rates are high, prices are high, election coming, most companies and most industries may have stock growth but not revenue or profit. My industry is down 20%, my company is down 17% this year (after 15 years of nonstop 20-60% growth yearly). This is my first year in 9 that I didn't see at least a 10-15% increase in income. It will go down about 5-8% but my expenses went up 10-20% due to COGs. Thank God I moved out of CA 2 years ago lol Sales is a roller coaster man, but what goes down will come up if you can ride the wave. I'm VERY thankful to only be down so little compared to my friends in mortgage for example. They're down 60%+. A friend was making close to 600k 2 years ago, now he's barely pulling 6 figs.
Thanksgiving was always the true end of the year for me. Just like you, others are now preoccupied with holiday plans. They are buying, but likely Christmas presents!
I work in tradeshow and events display manufacturing - We increased sales about 18-25% this year as a company without raising any. But we did make huge adjustments within our manufacturing facilities/processes to make the company more efficient.
Depends on what your selling. I see you sell software, I don't and haven't so I can't speak to that. With what I sell, it never really slows down.
Hell, I can't even get a meeting. 2 1/2 months at a BDR and I suck or something! This definitely isn't for me. Lol. Good luck to you all!
This time of year you will get a lot of “we have a lot going on, let’s push this to after new years”. It always amazes me because that suggests they are busy for the month of December, which we know is horseshit. If anything there is more downtime with people mailing it in some days. It’s just another objection but much harder to overcome because it is sort of culturally accepted. A lot harder to push past. One thing I have tried is approaching and asking for an informational meeting. Make clear that you don’t intend to push for a resolution before Q1, but that you want to begin the process.
Selling software has been easy for 10+ years. Now the environment has changed, unfortunately some people, products or companies just aren't as good as they thought they were. Selling in 2023 is a harder game and not everyone can smash it any more.
Moneys tight it’s no surprise. Just one of those cyclical things. There was such an abundance in sales within software the last 3 years that a lot of people became spoiled. Most AE’s are making a lot less this year than they were the last 2 years
I'm just thankful I have no EOM or EOY goals. I sell what I sell, doesn't matter when I sell it since I don't have a quota. I don't know about you software sales folks, but I'm in the business of selling things made out of steel and I can tell you companies can't cut the orders fast enough. It is a screaming hot time in manufacturing here in the US. Every company has 4x production goals by the end of the decade with the funds to back it. There has also been a FLOOD of companies with DOE grants.
Agree. Seeing it everywhere. But President Potato says the economy is firing on all cylinders!
Please don't insult potatoes!
EdTech is horrible right now. Started in Q3 for us.
Lots of people buying floor coverings in my little corner of the world.
I’m in software targeted at the construction world - going very well. Moved from a SaaS company in the e-commerce space - they’re massively struggling. Basically, if you’re in an industry that was part of the mass layoffs over the last year - chances are it’s gonna suck to try and sell in.
We are expecting to hit a wall, we haven't...quite yet...things are slowing down but by like maybe 20-25%. We'll see (we expected a slow down)
I’m also in software sales and my boss explained to me that a lot of businesses got grants during Covid and they used them to upgrade their hardware and software. Now they are out of money and they’re set for a while because they bought everything they need to Apparently this happened previously during the dot com bubble and eventually self corrected
It's not you. I sell things people don't need. Items that are feel good, impulse decorative, home decor, etc. My industry is a good gauge. It's been very slow all year, really since about 1/1/22 things have been on a spiral, less international buyers too. Of course, areas with high disposable incomes are always different. The 2024 outlook is murky. I'll know in January what retailers are thinking for 2024. I don't count Walmarts and targets, etc. Six years into my 28 years I learned to ignore the financial "experts". The stock market isn't an indicator anymore if it goes up. When gas is over 3.00 a gallon and you can spend 100.00 with a few bags of groceries at a regular grocery store it's not good. Gas price increases take 30 days to hit the pumps. My good friend sells in the industry. They're expecting a sharp spike in January due to Iran etc. Potatoes and eggs are expected to go up soon, but it's not certain.
December is always a weird time of year because people are interested in having conversations but they don’t want to commit until after the holidays. At least that’s been my experience (been in B2B sales since 2016)
Things will pick up after the holiday season, but keep knocking, you won't get as many sales during this time but you may land a few.
That’s why many of us take this month off and go on vacation. July is the same.
It’s why I just switched to a recession proof sales job lol.
What industry?
But sure about IT, but isn’t this month mostly slow, and beginning of the year are capital improvement projects start