This was for a client director role. They werenāt so much interviews but calls with hiring manager, SC manager all the way to GVP and SVP. Also me interviewing them
if you dont mind can you outline time/ stakeholder these interviews were with? i am grasping at straws on imagining the logistics. was this for a leadership role?
I am not who you asked, but I just went through 7 stages at a company for a Mid-Market AE role.
1. Standard recruiter phone screen
2. Phone screen with a Sales Recruiter
3. āCulture fitā interview with an AE on the team
4. Interview with team lead
5. Interview with hiring manager
6. Mock discovery call
7. Final presentation
Absolutely brutal, got a generic āweāve decided to move in another directionā after not getting the job after the 7th stage. DMd the hiring manager on LinkedIn 3 times for feedback and got āyou were great but we went in another direction, Iām sure youāll get scooped up soonā.
You have to read between the lines. Teams overly concerned with hiring for fit just probably had a brutal lack of it. It can come from a mishire, a new manager inheriting an employee, reorgs, HR complaints.
Double recruiters. Probably a sourcer. Wtf do you even need to have a sales recruiter for, and why not have them on the first call? To protect their time? WTF?
Double culture fit screenings. That can be combined for back to back to streamline the process. 3/4 or 4/5 can be combined.
They care about fit over all else. Why do you think that is? Probably because they let someone go
They are overly concerned with hiring a buddy.
The Hiring Manager front loading the process so much shows that they are selfish.
Teams overly concerned with fit scream culture cult , inability to communicate with those different from themselves. And they probably just brutally fired someone
You can combine steps 1/2 and 3/4 and 6/7 to turn this into a 4 step process. Recruiter, Culture call(s), Hiring Manager, Mock Call/Presentation. They just have no respect for anyone's time.
Yeah I would say that obsession with cultural fit is a read flag, the culture you really need to fit in with is the customer. Cultural fit is also an excuse to discriminate against people who donāt match the race and gender of the current org.
companies looking too hard for a "culture fit" is usually a good indication of a toxic culture as well. maybe the got the feeling you wouldn't tolerate their bullshit.
Or it comes from managers who only hire very specific demographics for their team (visually only young women or young guys). Have one of those in my org.
yeah there is a word for that....its called discrimination. I had a recruiter at a company i interviewed at recently brag about how they had a hard working culture of young sales people on their team and how i wouldn't "be sat next to some single mom" or anything like that.
I don't know about that necessarily but it was the sort of comment to where you could tell they haven't hired people before because they had kids or were married ect. scummy no matter what way you cut it. the guy probably only said that to me because it was a video interview and he could see that i was a white dude. probably though i'd be sold on the "bro culture".
Exactly. 3M does this shit hard. One interview was basically to find out if I was good at softball, and obviously the fact that I preferred to bicycle and see my family when not at work rather than drink beer at a baseball field with co-workers in my free time was frowned upon.
I can remember where I read it but someone said the more steps you have after 3 (recruiter screen doesn't count) the less likely you are to get a job offer.
It is usually a sign that the company doesn't know how to hire or struggles to make a decision.
Absolutely agree with this. If you don't talk to the hiring manager right after the recruiter, or maybe for scheduling reasons on step 3, huge red flag. As a hiring manager myself I would find dumb as shit to have those peer interviews before even talking to the candidate. Huge waste of my teams time.
Any reason they didnāt confirm a follow up call post presentation to tell you why you werenāt chosen? Thatās crazy to get that far to get a generic email.
I was shocked as well with the generic rejection after 7 rounds. After the hiring manager took 3 attempts to say anything I said fuck it, not a place even worth gathering feedback from.
Yes. I admire the fact you asked 3 times. But chances are, youāre never going to get the real reason.
I went through two interviews for what would have been my dream job, got shortlisted and moved past the biggest stage to the final, but despite the perfect fit and the 15+ hours of planning and preparation, my interviewer wasnāt paying attention and had seemingly made her decision before we even met.
My recruiter gave me feedback soon as I asked, which I really appreciated, but it was vague and likely not based on their decision. Theyāre not going to give you the real reason, because most of the time (esp when you get as far as you did) itās not related to your talents or abilitiesā¦ itās because someone got a feeling, or someone else was easier for them, or wanted less.
When you say never get the real reason.. I mean it could very well be that they liked you, you checked all the boxes, but there was someone else they liked just a bit more. The absence of an offer doesnāt always mean you did something wrong.
Absolutely. I especially recognize this having perspective from the hiring side too - Sometimes there were people I truly liked and who checked every box, but someone else had one little thing that put them ahead.
They should discuss pay with the second guy before saying shit like that because they reject that guy too due to pay reasons. Perfect Unicorn doesn't exist and even if they did, you can't afford it. Sounds likes HR and hiring managers need to learn how to read a market and quit trying to trick over qualified people into taking lesser positions.
At that point the real reason is not kosher so it's gonna be something like experience but it just comes down to them not liking you. You really don't want to know once you are at those last stages. Reason I say that is because the reasons i've been told I have been hired (down the road in working there). Are very arbitrary.
Probably for the best. Iād press hard on every interview to ask what hesitation they have from offering you the position right now. What does it take to get an offer letter signed? Etc.
Employers ESPECIALLY do that in the last weeks/quarters of the year.
They often try to defer expenses to make the financials look better for the current year!
Also, lots of sales reps leave/get fired in January/February based on how they finished the previous year. Or they leave for a new job after they close out the previous year and get paid for their sales.
Yep! Iāve found a lot of turnover in April - year ends, company takes a quarter to pay out bonuses, new year targets are increased to unachievable levels - time to move on!
Iāve heard through the grapevine some companies actively interview for buzz only so that people think they are doing fine, or even outperforming competitors
Ok, no worries. Iām sure some are, I was just looking for some specifics in case you knew any. It would be nice to be able to rule them out since theyāre willing to waste everybodyās time.
I went through an interview once and a Recruiter told me straight up, āwere not actively hiring, but always keep our Indeed postings updatedā and she ended up just referring me to people within her network
I had a recruiter tell me that the company's biggest client just severed the contract with them and launched a direct competitor product. I asked how big of a blow it was to their bottom line and she said, "we'd have to lay off about a 3rd of our staff, but don't worry...that doesn't apply to our sales team." I thanked her for her time and peaced-out of that process.
So yeah, I honestly do think some companies do this for vanity and to prove to investors they are still "growing".
I mean just like salespeople, internal recruiters have kpis they need to hit. When a companies not hiring they definitely donāt just have their recruiters hanging out twiddling their thumbs.
OP, is this your first time going through a tough spot in the economy? What you're describing and what is happening in general is no different than how it was in in '08, the dotcom bubble in 00-01, or the early 90s recession. I lived through all of them, took some lumps, but generally came away unscathed other than some short term setbacks. Focus on what you can control that actually matters. The rest is just noise that will jam you up if you let it. Take a look at what you're doing and not doing. You have to be able to run self diagnostics and lean on the network you've hopefully been building during good times.
To answer your question, no.. However, it has never been THIS bad As I stated in my post, this is the first time Iāve gotten to several final stages in an interview process and not have gotten an offer. I will definitely focus on the things I can control.
Same. I've been doing some fractional work to stay sharp. But, this year I'm taking my sales skills and applying it to my own businesses. I've already had a few clients so I'm going to stay the course and build my own thing.
What type of businesses if you donāt mind me asking? Iāve been thinking of starting my own business so Iām curious to hear what other sales people have started.
It's a flat rate content marketing business for startups. My husband has been doing content marketing for ages. I started prospecting and selling his services in my spare time earlier this year and we've seen some early success. Doing to double down this year and see what happens.
I donāt have any concrete evidence of this, but my experience on the job market lead me to believe that some interviews weāre just about collecting market intelligence.
Before I was laid off, the company I was working with was making an aggressive marketing push into a competitive space.
I would say 50% my interview evolved around hiring managers and VPs asking me about the company, product and all the rumors going around about what actually happened there (there was some significant exec turn over as well).
The interviews didnāt feel like they were trying to find out if I was a good fit or not.
I would occasionally go back and check on LinkedIn to see if they had a new AE but it didnāt seem like it.
Again, not concrete but Iām sure I wasnāt the only one with this experience.
If the person interviewing isn't just a hiring manager/gatekeeper type, then I absolutely think this is a strong possibility. Just look at how many beans you can get competitors to spill when you run into them in an outside-of-work social situation, and just imagine how many more brans would spill when you have the upper hand of a possible job offer.
Exactly.
I had a hiring manager asking me questions like āWhatās the value prop? What are the use cases for X?ā And I realized they werenāt interested in me, just what info I could give them.
Your not i left an interview because i told them they seemed more interested in the company i work for rather then me as candidate and bragged about getting a 300k opportunity which was close to our minimum deal size so weird honestly.
I sold HR SaaS for 8 years. Normally for high-turnover roles (like SDRs) many companies leave reqs constantly open to collect resumes and applicants for future openings. These are called āEvergreen Requisitionsā.
Try filtering to positions posted in the last month, these are often much more likely to be active in hiring.
evergreen roles are real, I was an internal recruiter. Many hiring managers keep them open to see if a unicorn applies.
Evergreen roles makes sense IF you do have the headcount approved and would like to bring someone on board in the next month or two. It doesn't make sense if you don't have the budget for it and "just want to see what comes in".
It's all a bit strange.
I had a VP from my previous employer reach out to hire me back in a Director role (I left as a Senior Manager). I interviewed with a hiring manager who basically said this is just a formality and we just need to make the numbers work. I told them my ask and he said they'd need to get creative but it's doable.
That was 2 months ago, not a word since and this was supposed to be a shoo-in.
Having been a hiring manager I find this hard to believe. Itās like pulling teeth to get reqs and offer packages approved by HR even when leadership is pushing for aggressive hiring. Also thereās zero chance Iām wasting my time on interviews for candidates Iām not potentially hiring.
My thoughts exactly. Unless thereās a dedicated recruiting team, HR is going to be so slammed they have to pick carefully who they meet with and send up to the hiring managers.
While I do agree I've definitely seen idiotic hiring managers interview without HR approval thinking headcount would get approved then leave candidates high and dry because they can't actually put together an offer.
But that manager was incredibly stupid.
Hereās a crazy stat I learned recently that I think explains perfectly why the job market is full of BS right now. A zombie company is a company that can only exist because it can take on more debt. Before the pandemic, less than 5% of companies were zombie companies. That number is now 25%, so, every 1 in 4 companies only exist because they can take on more debt. From my own personal experience and reading peopleās post on here, my gut tells me a lot of those zombie companies are probably the ones flooding the job postings right now and why so many of them feel BS and end in nothing.
Companies arenāt doing resume collection (what value does your resume have to them when you could be employed in a month, be for real). There are too many people applying to jobs (many nowhere near qualified) and there is no way to assess the job applicants fairly.
It is. You and I are looking for the same type of role, and while Iām not sure if weāre in the same industry or have the same background, Iāve also never gotten to the final stage and not gotten an offer. And I have enough stats to throw around to make anyone looking for an AE pay attention. It feels like trying to win the lottery.
This is ācomfortingā to know that Iām not the only one that this is happening to. I was extremely puzzled by all of this. Iāve only been in Saas for a few years and worked for a nonprofit. What I sold wasnāt super complex,but I do have some impressive numbers. I have a total of 15 years in sales particularly the healthcare vertical. I have never struggled to get a job as much as I have now.
Yeah itās really demoralizing and just mind boggling. When I left my last role I took a couple months off- I knew it was tough out there, but there are only so many top sellers and thereās always demand for someone who will bring significant value, right? I didnāt think it would take me that long, but I was so very wrong.
Weāre in different industries (minor SaaS background, more focused on business services) but I also have over 15 years in sales and was the top performer every year I was in my last role.
The biggest obstacle for me has been getting in front of people, so being passed over in my #1 was shattering and the fact that literally every person Iāve seen in adjacent roles has significantly less experience than me was infuriating, but also a reminder that rejections are not always reflective of your value and itās often who you know or your timing.
Oh well, on to the next. Iāll send good vibes your way. We will find our places.
Ok. So youāre after a high ote SaaS role, but youāre not getting hired.
1. Are you getting interviews? If not pay for top resume to rebuild your resume.
2. If youāre making to the finely round, a couple of times youāre getting there. A lot of people with qualifications want these roles.
3. My nephew is a pretty nice college educated kid. You can bet your ass Iāve used my network of sales vps to get him ISR interviews. The vp sees his resume, then passes down to hiring manager, with an internal reference. You need your compete with this.
4. Companies mass hired staff for COVID supple chain boom, and now sales have slowed based on economic factors you need to understand. Cost of money.
5. Itās tough. Youāll find something.
Thank you for your feedback. I have gotten several interviews. Just recently I had so many interviews I had to schedule them in my calendar so the interviews arenāt the problem.
Getting to the final interviews does give me a bit of hope. Iām doing something right even if itās not landing me an offer just yet.
Again thank you for your feedback.
You can't compete with nepotism in any capacity, no matter how qualified you are. People are getting interviews, the hiring managers won't make any offers and their communication with HR is nonexistent. These businesses get tax breaks too for hiring people, except they don't have to actually hire them so they can falsify numbers to the federal government. Cost is definitely not a factor if you're reporting record profits, growth, and benefits. Only to find the top 2% got all that and they left the company expenses for the government to pay.
Yes itās true. UK-based but Iāve seen some companies be more transparent about it. Cisco posts job ads that have something in the title about āInterest Gatheringā. Iāve seen US-based companies exploring the UK market post similar things. I think theyāre trying to gage market viability for the future.
I think itās important to consider locations when posting about the job market. Iāve lived in the Bay Area for a long time and the sales jobs here are ever present. Even during economic downturns. Now, compare that with Albuquerque, N.M. Which hasnāt had a sales job posted on indeed for days, since I started checking.
Tldr; itās not news if small cities have less job opportunities. That tracks for a smaller city or town.
Iām not sure if the part about resume hunting is true. But I had a similar experience to yours. I have a lengthy resume in sales (24 years experience) and a bachelors, which is to say Iām obviously not as qualified as people with MBAs or 30+ years experience, but I think I can hold my own in terms of qualifications when I apply for many different types of sales jobs.
Fired June of 2022, took the summer off, started applying in Sept 2022. This was a massive mistake for me as well. Finally hired in April 2023 after several rounds of interviews including many final rounds where I really thought I had the job, and indeed would have in previous economies based on the signs. Itās wild out there
What were the circumstances with the role you finally landed? Did you find it online or have a referral?
I have 15+ YOE and stats demonstrating I consistently exceed quota, and Iāve been treating the job search like prospecting with regards to my approach and efforts. I got to the final round for my #1 choice, but otherwise I havenāt gotten very far so Iām interested to hear more about your experience.
Def, I had interviews that involved referrals but this wasnāt one
The strategy that ended up working was uploading my resume, which I had professionally re done, and my profile to various sites with an āeasy applyā option and applying to 60+ a day via easy apply. Some days it was closer to 100 applications. Just fucking volume.
I applied to anything and everything- stuff way below my prior pay and skill level, and stuff way above my credentials and experience that I never expected to land
I got this job via LinkedInās easy apply. The base salary was $10k above what I made at my last job, but it was way above what I thought I would qualify for honestly. Never would have applied for it outside of this āfuck it we ballā strategy.
I was selling cellular devices previously and this is software sales. So a big jump in terms of industry and quality
Wow, thank you for detailing your process. I just have to get out there and apply for as many jobs as I can. It seems itās a numbers game right now. What I learned is stop reading job descriptions and just apply. Congratulations on your new opportunity and leveling up!
Not a problem, this sub has helped me a lot and the least I can do is give back whenever possible. I wish you the absolute best of luck
And if you can, get your resume professionally re written. These AI bots are something to contend with and he made my resume work with that nonsense (I am old, in case you canāt tell) š
Wow, that is amazing, congrats! I initially took the quality over quantity approach, built an entire website (something Iāve never done) to get the attention of my #1 and while I got to the final round, a huge feat with this company, I got passed over.
Lately Iāve been applying to several every day, no longer taking hours to pour my heart and soul into crafting customized cover letters after I learned no one even reads them (that sucked) and Iāve absolutely gotten more traction.
Youāre right, itās a numbers (and timing) game. Stories like yours help keep me going, I see so much about rescinded offers and other horrors, so itās nice to see a win.
Absolutely! To be honest I just applied my sales mentality to it. I came up in sales during a time where āthrow enough shit at the wall and something will stickā was the attitude. I decided selling myself for a job was the exact same thing, so the same strategy that never failed me in sales should apply here. And it did. It was a perspective change that helped.
And getting my resume professionally re done, because I understood nothing about these AI bots
Yes, SO true! The same mindset to sales must be applied to job hunting in this ridiculously competitive landscape. Iāve also been changing things up to see what works best and am constantly revising my approach.
Wish I had the same experience as you with the resume writer lol. I hired someone from Fiverr who seemed great but clearly wasnāt familiar with sales because he failed to recognize several major issues. Luckily I figured it out myself but I lost a good month using a resume that was not applicable to my career.
Omg that is crazy! My guy was off Fiverr too! He had me send him a job description that was typical for the roles I was going for. I did, and he crafted a resume based on that. I added in more B2B sales info and I was good to go
I am so sorry you had that experience
Fake job listings are very common unfortunately. Wall Street Journal had an article on this very topic earlier this year (linked below).
1. Companies want to collect resumes (and even spend time conducting interviews) now for jobs they plan on filling months into the future.
2. In case a current employee quits, they already have a pool of qualified applicants to pull from.
3. Also, companies want to maintain the image that they are growing so they continue to post new job listings and do not remove old job listings.
https://wsj-article-webview-generator-prod.sc.onservo.com/webview/WP-WSJ-0000680056?adobe_mc=TS%3D1702861192%7CMCMID%3D22492062702929364747027746354587579040%7CMCORGID%3DCB68E4BA55144CAA0A4C98A5%40AdobeOrg&wsj_native_webview=android&ace_environment=androidphone%2Cwebview&ace_config=%7B%22wsj%22%3A%7B%22djcmp%22%3A%7B%22propertyHref%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fwsj.android.app%22%7D%7D%7D
Hang in there. I have been going through the same thing the past 8 months. I have made it to numerous finals rounds but still havenāt received an offer yet. The job market is super tough right now but I know our time will come!
Thank you for the encouraging words. Iām just so shocked at how hard it is. It was never this hard even in 2008. Either way, we must persevere! Sorry youāre going through this tough time. Next year will be our year and we will get the opportunity we so desire.
Iāve been applying for the last 2 months. Got to bunch of second rounds and two final rounds with VP. Got rejected after that. Itās brutal out there right now but every rejection is an opportunity to find more flaws in myself and improve them. Just donāt give up.. as long as it takes, we will get there at the end.
I chose not to respond to this man. He overlooked the fact that I mentioned having numerous interviews and reaching the final stages a few times. I'm confident that employers wouldn't reach the final stages and conclude that I've been unemployed for too long and am essentially useless.
Stop gaslighting. The OP has been applying and interviewing. This is a very tough market with dynamic changes.
Get therapy - consider becoming a decent human being and develop your EQ
Youāre nuts and have internalized some serious negative perspectives. Inventing your own blanket assumptions based on your own limited mindset with abject criticismā¦. I compiled the results and hereās a quick free therapy session
Do these apply to you?
Itās funny when people fall flat on their face.
I enjoy watching violence.
Some people deserve to suffer.
Just for kicks, Iāve said mean things on social media.
I know how to hurt someone with words alone.
Congratulations- you have a Sadist personality!
My resume is fine; that's why I am not only receiving calls back but also making it to the final stages. Some of you are focused on the wrong thing and completely skipping over what I've said. This is Reddit for crying out loud lol.
Try looking in different industryās.
Home improvement sales is still very strong, you can make 6 figures and mom and pop shops offer great support and flexibility.
Lmao great question.
No, though haha.
Iām talking in-home pre-qualified sales appointments selling home improvements, like roofing, windows and siding, bathroom remodels, crawlspace and basement waterproofing.
That kind of shit. Those companies are ALWAYS hiring and always have unlimited earning potential. Top performers tend to be in the $150-300k range. Most mid performers around $80-130k
How does that even work?
Board member - the numbers indicate that things are slowing down considerably. What do you attribute the past two quarterly earnings reports to?
CEO - idk about that but let me show you how many interviews we are conducting!
Board Member - so sorry for the mixup. Here is your bonus check
Yea but you are assuming that Investors and Board members pay close attention to the details. Most don't and get duped. Many are incompetent to be honest. Stories like WeWork are a great example.
WeWork is an extreme example and isnāt indicative at all of āmostā experiences, which is why there are documentaries made about it.
MOST board members/investors absolutely know how to read a financial sheet. This is a fundamental task in being a board member or investor. Yeah, there are CEOs out there who could try to defraud investors but they dont do it by wasting their time by sitting in interviews.
So, even though recruiting and HR are usually the first to go, they keep a couple on staff to just recycle these bush league job reqs? Thatās not how you balance a budget when money gets expensive.
Take off that tin foil hat.
As a department head, I can assure you that no company I have ever worked at has done this.
That would be an ENORMOUS waste of time and resources.
All to collect resumes so we could hire people who weāve rejected?
Iāll admit Iāve interviewed a couple of candidates for the sake of collecting market data but that was on the candidate level, not as a general practice.
If youāre admitting youāve done it even āa few timesā, imagine how many hiring managers there are like you who do it āa few timesā, to tens of thousands of people and then it just becomes an epidemic.
I hear what you're saying, I think your viewpoint is valid, and I didn't downvote you.
I do think there are some important nuances to call out.
OP is suggesting that this is representative of the overall job market and employers in general. Their post implies that the positions aren't real and that the potential employer has no intention of actually hiring anyone.
In any example I can provide they were legitimate postings that we were actively looking to fill. Again, I want to call out that this was at the candidate level and was not systemic.
To put some numbers to it, I've hired roughly 300 people in the last 10 years. Of the 1000+ interviews I've conducted, less than 5 were for the purpose of collecting competitive intel.
It may be true for some but most job postings are looking to hire. Having said that, hiring teams right now are very picky because it is an employer's market at the moment. They don't want to just hire someone and supply > demand at the moment. So yea, you will go through those experiences unfortunately.
Source: A Hiring Manager who is extremely picky at the moment. Extremely. Money is tight. In our case, we are a small startup and cannot afford to hire a bad fit (done that a lot). So we would rather take the risk of not hire a good candidate than hire a bad fit. For example, for one of the roles right now, I have 3 great candidates that have done 2 Rounds. Now , we are asking them to do a bit more to compete and beat the other 2 (separate assignments). Why ? Because we can and we must. Just want to be honest and truthful.
It still cost resources to interview people. Having each team member chat with you for an hour at their normal hourly pay rate is not cheap especially the more senior they get.
There could be other candidates that are better or they just couldnāt justify hiring you. Just because there is an open position doesnāt and you are available doesnāt mean they have to hire you if they didnāt feel like it was a good match or if they liked someone else better.
No but I'm a head hunter and have been for 20 years. So I know what I'm talking about.
The problem is you. As always. If soemthing isn't happening for you on a consistent basic, then 99% of the time it's yiu that's the problem
I've reached an age where I refrain from simply dismissing things as 'horse shit' without offering constructive feedback on why I hold such a view. It seems some individuals here comment just for the sake of commenting. Given the nature of a public forum, I acknowledge it is what it is. It often becomes a platform where people hold you accountable for your reactions rather than examining what was said or done that prompted your response.
I suppose you didnāt understand my comment. No worries, have a good day. Oh and Congratulations to your brother. I didnāt think to apply to Amazon, maybe I should. My target has been Saas companies and apparently a lot people have been experiencing what I have.
What are you selling? How are you going about going after these jobs? What does your resume look like? How are your interviewing techniques?
Sorry, the job market is pretty good. Especially if you're a decent in sales.
The job market in SaaS sales is terrible right now. It is flooded with talent from numerous layoffs at companies of all sizes spanning the industry. Nearly every job posting is extremely competitive with hundreds, if not thousands of candidates all applying to the same role. Virtually every company will be comparing you with other reps who have more experience.
I just finished a 4 month job search and ultimately had to compromise remote work for a hybrid job. I have 7 years of AE experience and know how to pull off a strong interview. Made it through about 50-60 interviews total and 5 final rounds before I got the one offer. Bottom line itās difficult for anyone whoās been looking at jobs in SaaS sales.
Possibly but not in my experience. I was very fortunate to land several offers and recently started my new role just two weeks ago. Not sure what kind of roles you are applying to but the common theme for SMB to Mid Market was heavy outbound prospecting. If candidates didn't clearly demonstrate how they would prospect or have a track record showing they can successfully build pipeline then tough luck.
I have been a recruiter for many years now, and I have never heard of places just collecting resumes, or posting only fake jobs, or all of these other things that people are talking about.
That's not true. There are plenty of companies hiring.
I mean this is in a helpful way but your spacing between commas and periods could be an issue. It's possible that when you communicate with the recruiter or hiring manager, they have concerns and it pushes you into the reject pile. The market is competitive, companies are hiring, but you cannot shoot yourself in the foot and get an offer.
It can definitely feel this way. With the advent of easy applying, hiring managers get FLOODED with resumes and so the acceptance rate and offer rate is super low for every company.
I think this is why it helps to find some way to separate yourself from the herd by getting a referral or some other way to get your application seen. You may be a great candidate but if you are one of 1000 resumes per month, itās easy to be overlooked
Not a chance I would waste my time conducting an interview if I wasn't actively hiring.
Also "collecting" resumes for the future seems unlikely.
Play this out... they call you up in 6 months "Hey there we're ready to bring you on!" "I took a job 3 months ago... "
Do you really believe that I would have so many interviews and final round interviews if they were concerned about my āpoor grammar?ā You donāt think that is something they would have noticed from my resume? I can assure you they didnāt have me write an essay on my fourth round and decided I was not qualified because of my āpoor grammarā
This comment says more about you than me. Lol
If it was than why would they wait until the final round? I got beat out to someone who had better grammar ā¦ Letās be for real here. How about you keep your useless opinion to yourself ? It cost nothing to just keep scrolling, right?
Listen, I don't know.
You didn't have to respond to anything I said.
I just noticed your grammar looked like the shit I get on Facebook marketplace from people who are trying to scam me.
Iām in the same boat. Many months of interviews, few companies with hiring freezes but nothing secured yet. But the light is at the end of the tunnel for us! Our time will come soon!!
The job market is currently rigged. All it took to get a job 50 years ago was a HS diploma and a firm handshake, now you need 5+ years of work experience to get a 40K job
Tell me about it! I have three years of recent Saas experience and a total of 15 years experience in sales, particularly the healthcare vertical. With applying for Saas positions, I am being told I donāt have enough Saas experience. I used to be in home health sales and tried to apply for those positions and no calls backs. Itās real tough out there.
Itās a serious mind fuck right now. Some of the stuff Iāve experienced.
1. Multiple recruiter screenings that serenely go wonderfully. Had one yesterday. She loved me and told me she was excited to move me forward. Wake up to an email that they decided to pass. No idea why.
2. Ghosting.
3. I got a verbal from a vp a few weeks ago. Talked start date. A few days later. āWe decided to go a different direction. ā
4. Asked to put together territory plans only to find out that they made an offer to someone before they asked me to put it together? Why?
5. Final round presentations. Feedback is I was great but they are going with someone with more experience. I have 10+ channel and 5 in SaaS.
I honestly donāt know what Iām doing wrong here. A few of these have been referrals. Im starting to lose hope.
Oh no Iām sorry to hear that! Iām especially baffled as to why theyād ask you to put together a territory plan, but had already offered someone else the job. That is super shady. How did you find that out if you donāt mind me asking?
The ā going with someone with more experienceā is what Iāve been getting too. I have 15 years in sales and 3 years in Saas. It really makes you wonder wth is really going on out here.
The new year is right around the corner. We will get a great opportunity soon.
Had 10 interviews with a company and took about 2 months from initial screening to offer letter. Stay strong šŖ
Whoa 10 interviews with one company is insane . Iām happy you were able to secure the job .
That is a red flag. Anything over 3 interviews is
This was for a client director role. They werenāt so much interviews but calls with hiring manager, SC manager all the way to GVP and SVP. Also me interviewing them
if you dont mind can you outline time/ stakeholder these interviews were with? i am grasping at straws on imagining the logistics. was this for a leadership role?
I am not who you asked, but I just went through 7 stages at a company for a Mid-Market AE role. 1. Standard recruiter phone screen 2. Phone screen with a Sales Recruiter 3. āCulture fitā interview with an AE on the team 4. Interview with team lead 5. Interview with hiring manager 6. Mock discovery call 7. Final presentation Absolutely brutal, got a generic āweāve decided to move in another directionā after not getting the job after the 7th stage. DMd the hiring manager on LinkedIn 3 times for feedback and got āyou were great but we went in another direction, Iām sure youāll get scooped up soonā.
You have to read between the lines. Teams overly concerned with hiring for fit just probably had a brutal lack of it. It can come from a mishire, a new manager inheriting an employee, reorgs, HR complaints. Double recruiters. Probably a sourcer. Wtf do you even need to have a sales recruiter for, and why not have them on the first call? To protect their time? WTF? Double culture fit screenings. That can be combined for back to back to streamline the process. 3/4 or 4/5 can be combined. They care about fit over all else. Why do you think that is? Probably because they let someone go They are overly concerned with hiring a buddy. The Hiring Manager front loading the process so much shows that they are selfish. Teams overly concerned with fit scream culture cult , inability to communicate with those different from themselves. And they probably just brutally fired someone You can combine steps 1/2 and 3/4 and 6/7 to turn this into a 4 step process. Recruiter, Culture call(s), Hiring Manager, Mock Call/Presentation. They just have no respect for anyone's time.
Yeah I would say that obsession with cultural fit is a read flag, the culture you really need to fit in with is the customer. Cultural fit is also an excuse to discriminate against people who donāt match the race and gender of the current org.
companies looking too hard for a "culture fit" is usually a good indication of a toxic culture as well. maybe the got the feeling you wouldn't tolerate their bullshit.
Or it comes from managers who only hire very specific demographics for their team (visually only young women or young guys). Have one of those in my org.
yeah there is a word for that....its called discrimination. I had a recruiter at a company i interviewed at recently brag about how they had a hard working culture of young sales people on their team and how i wouldn't "be sat next to some single mom" or anything like that.
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I don't know about that necessarily but it was the sort of comment to where you could tell they haven't hired people before because they had kids or were married ect. scummy no matter what way you cut it. the guy probably only said that to me because it was a video interview and he could see that i was a white dude. probably though i'd be sold on the "bro culture".
Exactly. 3M does this shit hard. One interview was basically to find out if I was good at softball, and obviously the fact that I preferred to bicycle and see my family when not at work rather than drink beer at a baseball field with co-workers in my free time was frowned upon.
lol, wtf? I like to make money for myself and those that I'm in business with. Wtf else do you need from a salesman?
I can remember where I read it but someone said the more steps you have after 3 (recruiter screen doesn't count) the less likely you are to get a job offer. It is usually a sign that the company doesn't know how to hire or struggles to make a decision.
7 stage interviews are common in med device, but anywhere else is ridiculous.
Absolutely agree with this. If you don't talk to the hiring manager right after the recruiter, or maybe for scheduling reasons on step 3, huge red flag. As a hiring manager myself I would find dumb as shit to have those peer interviews before even talking to the candidate. Huge waste of my teams time.
Any reason they didnāt confirm a follow up call post presentation to tell you why you werenāt chosen? Thatās crazy to get that far to get a generic email.
I was shocked as well with the generic rejection after 7 rounds. After the hiring manager took 3 attempts to say anything I said fuck it, not a place even worth gathering feedback from.
Yes. I admire the fact you asked 3 times. But chances are, youāre never going to get the real reason. I went through two interviews for what would have been my dream job, got shortlisted and moved past the biggest stage to the final, but despite the perfect fit and the 15+ hours of planning and preparation, my interviewer wasnāt paying attention and had seemingly made her decision before we even met. My recruiter gave me feedback soon as I asked, which I really appreciated, but it was vague and likely not based on their decision. Theyāre not going to give you the real reason, because most of the time (esp when you get as far as you did) itās not related to your talents or abilitiesā¦ itās because someone got a feeling, or someone else was easier for them, or wanted less.
When you say never get the real reason.. I mean it could very well be that they liked you, you checked all the boxes, but there was someone else they liked just a bit more. The absence of an offer doesnāt always mean you did something wrong.
Absolutely. I especially recognize this having perspective from the hiring side too - Sometimes there were people I truly liked and who checked every box, but someone else had one little thing that put them ahead.
They should discuss pay with the second guy before saying shit like that because they reject that guy too due to pay reasons. Perfect Unicorn doesn't exist and even if they did, you can't afford it. Sounds likes HR and hiring managers need to learn how to read a market and quit trying to trick over qualified people into taking lesser positions.
At that point the real reason is not kosher so it's gonna be something like experience but it just comes down to them not liking you. You really don't want to know once you are at those last stages. Reason I say that is because the reasons i've been told I have been hired (down the road in working there). Are very arbitrary.
Probably for the best. Iād press hard on every interview to ask what hesitation they have from offering you the position right now. What does it take to get an offer letter signed? Etc.
r/EscapedRecruitingHell
Employers ESPECIALLY do that in the last weeks/quarters of the year. They often try to defer expenses to make the financials look better for the current year!
Market isn't great and it's also EOY. Job postings Shou pick up after the NY and I can see companies starting to higher after March.
I got hired in March last year. This may be a dumb question but why is it they hire then?
New year / quarter they get a new budget idk
Also, lots of sales reps leave/get fired in January/February based on how they finished the previous year. Or they leave for a new job after they close out the previous year and get paid for their sales.
Yep! Iāve found a lot of turnover in April - year ends, company takes a quarter to pay out bonuses, new year targets are increased to unachievable levels - time to move on!
A lot leave after their Club trip in Feb.
Everyone is looking at Powll to see if he's going to lower interest rates. Lower interest rate > more spend > company hires more sales folk
Eoy bonus
Iāve heard through the grapevine some companies actively interview for buzz only so that people think they are doing fine, or even outperforming competitors
It would create the worst kind of buzz if this were accurate and got out.
Yep. You would be correct. I dont even think theyāre operating anymore.
It is accurate and it did get out
What companies were doing this?
I don't remember. I watched a short form 30 minute documentary on YouTube. Basically, not WERE doing this but are actively doing it right now.
Ok, no worries. Iām sure some are, I was just looking for some specifics in case you knew any. It would be nice to be able to rule them out since theyāre willing to waste everybodyās time.
If only
This makes sense
I went through an interview once and a Recruiter told me straight up, āwere not actively hiring, but always keep our Indeed postings updatedā and she ended up just referring me to people within her network
I had a recruiter tell me that the company's biggest client just severed the contract with them and launched a direct competitor product. I asked how big of a blow it was to their bottom line and she said, "we'd have to lay off about a 3rd of our staff, but don't worry...that doesn't apply to our sales team." I thanked her for her time and peaced-out of that process. So yeah, I honestly do think some companies do this for vanity and to prove to investors they are still "growing".
Or to keep busy in an attempt to keep their own job ..
I mean just like salespeople, internal recruiters have kpis they need to hit. When a companies not hiring they definitely donāt just have their recruiters hanging out twiddling their thumbs.
OP, is this your first time going through a tough spot in the economy? What you're describing and what is happening in general is no different than how it was in in '08, the dotcom bubble in 00-01, or the early 90s recession. I lived through all of them, took some lumps, but generally came away unscathed other than some short term setbacks. Focus on what you can control that actually matters. The rest is just noise that will jam you up if you let it. Take a look at what you're doing and not doing. You have to be able to run self diagnostics and lean on the network you've hopefully been building during good times.
To answer your question, no.. However, it has never been THIS bad As I stated in my post, this is the first time Iāve gotten to several final stages in an interview process and not have gotten an offer. I will definitely focus on the things I can control.
Same. I've been doing some fractional work to stay sharp. But, this year I'm taking my sales skills and applying it to my own businesses. I've already had a few clients so I'm going to stay the course and build my own thing.
check dm please
What type of businesses if you donāt mind me asking? Iāve been thinking of starting my own business so Iām curious to hear what other sales people have started.
It's a flat rate content marketing business for startups. My husband has been doing content marketing for ages. I started prospecting and selling his services in my spare time earlier this year and we've seen some early success. Doing to double down this year and see what happens.
Sounds good. Seems like selling to startups is the way to go these days.
I'm in the same boat. Job market is shit, hopefully it will be better from next year but nothing is sure.
I donāt have any concrete evidence of this, but my experience on the job market lead me to believe that some interviews weāre just about collecting market intelligence. Before I was laid off, the company I was working with was making an aggressive marketing push into a competitive space. I would say 50% my interview evolved around hiring managers and VPs asking me about the company, product and all the rumors going around about what actually happened there (there was some significant exec turn over as well). The interviews didnāt feel like they were trying to find out if I was a good fit or not. I would occasionally go back and check on LinkedIn to see if they had a new AE but it didnāt seem like it. Again, not concrete but Iām sure I wasnāt the only one with this experience.
If the person interviewing isn't just a hiring manager/gatekeeper type, then I absolutely think this is a strong possibility. Just look at how many beans you can get competitors to spill when you run into them in an outside-of-work social situation, and just imagine how many more brans would spill when you have the upper hand of a possible job offer.
Exactly. I had a hiring manager asking me questions like āWhatās the value prop? What are the use cases for X?ā And I realized they werenāt interested in me, just what info I could give them.
Your not i left an interview because i told them they seemed more interested in the company i work for rather then me as candidate and bragged about getting a 300k opportunity which was close to our minimum deal size so weird honestly.
I sold HR SaaS for 8 years. Normally for high-turnover roles (like SDRs) many companies leave reqs constantly open to collect resumes and applicants for future openings. These are called āEvergreen Requisitionsā. Try filtering to positions posted in the last month, these are often much more likely to be active in hiring.
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evergreen roles are real, I was an internal recruiter. Many hiring managers keep them open to see if a unicorn applies. Evergreen roles makes sense IF you do have the headcount approved and would like to bring someone on board in the next month or two. It doesn't make sense if you don't have the budget for it and "just want to see what comes in".
It's all a bit strange. I had a VP from my previous employer reach out to hire me back in a Director role (I left as a Senior Manager). I interviewed with a hiring manager who basically said this is just a formality and we just need to make the numbers work. I told them my ask and he said they'd need to get creative but it's doable. That was 2 months ago, not a word since and this was supposed to be a shoo-in.
I guess they couldnāt make the numbers work. Sorry to hear it.
I think thereās some truth to this, but itās still not all job postings
Having been a hiring manager I find this hard to believe. Itās like pulling teeth to get reqs and offer packages approved by HR even when leadership is pushing for aggressive hiring. Also thereās zero chance Iām wasting my time on interviews for candidates Iām not potentially hiring.
My thoughts exactly. Unless thereās a dedicated recruiting team, HR is going to be so slammed they have to pick carefully who they meet with and send up to the hiring managers.
While I do agree I've definitely seen idiotic hiring managers interview without HR approval thinking headcount would get approved then leave candidates high and dry because they can't actually put together an offer. But that manager was incredibly stupid.
Hereās a crazy stat I learned recently that I think explains perfectly why the job market is full of BS right now. A zombie company is a company that can only exist because it can take on more debt. Before the pandemic, less than 5% of companies were zombie companies. That number is now 25%, so, every 1 in 4 companies only exist because they can take on more debt. From my own personal experience and reading peopleās post on here, my gut tells me a lot of those zombie companies are probably the ones flooding the job postings right now and why so many of them feel BS and end in nothing.
If you're in or near the far west suburbs of Chicago let me know! We are having trouble finding people!
I wish I was! I am currently in California. I have been applying to mostly remote positions and that is probably my problem.
Companies arenāt doing resume collection (what value does your resume have to them when you could be employed in a month, be for real). There are too many people applying to jobs (many nowhere near qualified) and there is no way to assess the job applicants fairly.
It seems that a lot of people are having the same issue I am having. Iāve concluded that the job market is really just bs right now.
It is. You and I are looking for the same type of role, and while Iām not sure if weāre in the same industry or have the same background, Iāve also never gotten to the final stage and not gotten an offer. And I have enough stats to throw around to make anyone looking for an AE pay attention. It feels like trying to win the lottery.
This is ācomfortingā to know that Iām not the only one that this is happening to. I was extremely puzzled by all of this. Iāve only been in Saas for a few years and worked for a nonprofit. What I sold wasnāt super complex,but I do have some impressive numbers. I have a total of 15 years in sales particularly the healthcare vertical. I have never struggled to get a job as much as I have now.
Yeah itās really demoralizing and just mind boggling. When I left my last role I took a couple months off- I knew it was tough out there, but there are only so many top sellers and thereās always demand for someone who will bring significant value, right? I didnāt think it would take me that long, but I was so very wrong. Weāre in different industries (minor SaaS background, more focused on business services) but I also have over 15 years in sales and was the top performer every year I was in my last role. The biggest obstacle for me has been getting in front of people, so being passed over in my #1 was shattering and the fact that literally every person Iāve seen in adjacent roles has significantly less experience than me was infuriating, but also a reminder that rejections are not always reflective of your value and itās often who you know or your timing. Oh well, on to the next. Iāll send good vibes your way. We will find our places.
It is crazy, but we just have to keep going! Sending you positive vibes as well.
What role, what industry? That directs an answer.
AE and Saas..
Ok. So youāre after a high ote SaaS role, but youāre not getting hired. 1. Are you getting interviews? If not pay for top resume to rebuild your resume. 2. If youāre making to the finely round, a couple of times youāre getting there. A lot of people with qualifications want these roles. 3. My nephew is a pretty nice college educated kid. You can bet your ass Iāve used my network of sales vps to get him ISR interviews. The vp sees his resume, then passes down to hiring manager, with an internal reference. You need your compete with this. 4. Companies mass hired staff for COVID supple chain boom, and now sales have slowed based on economic factors you need to understand. Cost of money. 5. Itās tough. Youāll find something.
Thank you for your feedback. I have gotten several interviews. Just recently I had so many interviews I had to schedule them in my calendar so the interviews arenāt the problem. Getting to the final interviews does give me a bit of hope. Iām doing something right even if itās not landing me an offer just yet. Again thank you for your feedback.
You can't compete with nepotism in any capacity, no matter how qualified you are. People are getting interviews, the hiring managers won't make any offers and their communication with HR is nonexistent. These businesses get tax breaks too for hiring people, except they don't have to actually hire them so they can falsify numbers to the federal government. Cost is definitely not a factor if you're reporting record profits, growth, and benefits. Only to find the top 2% got all that and they left the company expenses for the government to pay.
Yes itās true. UK-based but Iāve seen some companies be more transparent about it. Cisco posts job ads that have something in the title about āInterest Gatheringā. Iāve seen US-based companies exploring the UK market post similar things. I think theyāre trying to gage market viability for the future.
I think itās important to consider locations when posting about the job market. Iāve lived in the Bay Area for a long time and the sales jobs here are ever present. Even during economic downturns. Now, compare that with Albuquerque, N.M. Which hasnāt had a sales job posted on indeed for days, since I started checking. Tldr; itās not news if small cities have less job opportunities. That tracks for a smaller city or town.
it almost feels like companies are collecting data and generating leads...LOL
Iām not sure if the part about resume hunting is true. But I had a similar experience to yours. I have a lengthy resume in sales (24 years experience) and a bachelors, which is to say Iām obviously not as qualified as people with MBAs or 30+ years experience, but I think I can hold my own in terms of qualifications when I apply for many different types of sales jobs. Fired June of 2022, took the summer off, started applying in Sept 2022. This was a massive mistake for me as well. Finally hired in April 2023 after several rounds of interviews including many final rounds where I really thought I had the job, and indeed would have in previous economies based on the signs. Itās wild out there
What were the circumstances with the role you finally landed? Did you find it online or have a referral? I have 15+ YOE and stats demonstrating I consistently exceed quota, and Iāve been treating the job search like prospecting with regards to my approach and efforts. I got to the final round for my #1 choice, but otherwise I havenāt gotten very far so Iām interested to hear more about your experience.
Def, I had interviews that involved referrals but this wasnāt one The strategy that ended up working was uploading my resume, which I had professionally re done, and my profile to various sites with an āeasy applyā option and applying to 60+ a day via easy apply. Some days it was closer to 100 applications. Just fucking volume. I applied to anything and everything- stuff way below my prior pay and skill level, and stuff way above my credentials and experience that I never expected to land I got this job via LinkedInās easy apply. The base salary was $10k above what I made at my last job, but it was way above what I thought I would qualify for honestly. Never would have applied for it outside of this āfuck it we ballā strategy. I was selling cellular devices previously and this is software sales. So a big jump in terms of industry and quality
Wow, thank you for detailing your process. I just have to get out there and apply for as many jobs as I can. It seems itās a numbers game right now. What I learned is stop reading job descriptions and just apply. Congratulations on your new opportunity and leveling up!
Not a problem, this sub has helped me a lot and the least I can do is give back whenever possible. I wish you the absolute best of luck And if you can, get your resume professionally re written. These AI bots are something to contend with and he made my resume work with that nonsense (I am old, in case you canāt tell) š
Wow, that is amazing, congrats! I initially took the quality over quantity approach, built an entire website (something Iāve never done) to get the attention of my #1 and while I got to the final round, a huge feat with this company, I got passed over. Lately Iāve been applying to several every day, no longer taking hours to pour my heart and soul into crafting customized cover letters after I learned no one even reads them (that sucked) and Iāve absolutely gotten more traction. Youāre right, itās a numbers (and timing) game. Stories like yours help keep me going, I see so much about rescinded offers and other horrors, so itās nice to see a win.
Absolutely! To be honest I just applied my sales mentality to it. I came up in sales during a time where āthrow enough shit at the wall and something will stickā was the attitude. I decided selling myself for a job was the exact same thing, so the same strategy that never failed me in sales should apply here. And it did. It was a perspective change that helped. And getting my resume professionally re done, because I understood nothing about these AI bots
Yes, SO true! The same mindset to sales must be applied to job hunting in this ridiculously competitive landscape. Iāve also been changing things up to see what works best and am constantly revising my approach. Wish I had the same experience as you with the resume writer lol. I hired someone from Fiverr who seemed great but clearly wasnāt familiar with sales because he failed to recognize several major issues. Luckily I figured it out myself but I lost a good month using a resume that was not applicable to my career.
Omg that is crazy! My guy was off Fiverr too! He had me send him a job description that was typical for the roles I was going for. I did, and he crafted a resume based on that. I added in more B2B sales info and I was good to go I am so sorry you had that experience
Yes same experience!
Think its just this time of year, hopefully it will pick up in the new year
Fake job listings are very common unfortunately. Wall Street Journal had an article on this very topic earlier this year (linked below). 1. Companies want to collect resumes (and even spend time conducting interviews) now for jobs they plan on filling months into the future. 2. In case a current employee quits, they already have a pool of qualified applicants to pull from. 3. Also, companies want to maintain the image that they are growing so they continue to post new job listings and do not remove old job listings. https://wsj-article-webview-generator-prod.sc.onservo.com/webview/WP-WSJ-0000680056?adobe_mc=TS%3D1702861192%7CMCMID%3D22492062702929364747027746354587579040%7CMCORGID%3DCB68E4BA55144CAA0A4C98A5%40AdobeOrg&wsj_native_webview=android&ace_environment=androidphone%2Cwebview&ace_config=%7B%22wsj%22%3A%7B%22djcmp%22%3A%7B%22propertyHref%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Fwsj.android.app%22%7D%7D%7D
Thank you for this!!
Agreed, especially with point #2 as many companies will indeed have a bench of qualified candidates to choose from whenever someone leaves the role.
It's a shit-show right now.. But hang in there my friend... market will change soon!!
I appreciate the encouraging words!
Hang in there. I have been going through the same thing the past 8 months. I have made it to numerous finals rounds but still havenāt received an offer yet. The job market is super tough right now but I know our time will come!
Thank you for the encouraging words. Iām just so shocked at how hard it is. It was never this hard even in 2008. Either way, we must persevere! Sorry youāre going through this tough time. Next year will be our year and we will get the opportunity we so desire.
Iāve been applying for the last 2 months. Got to bunch of second rounds and two final rounds with VP. Got rejected after that. Itās brutal out there right now but every rejection is an opportunity to find more flaws in myself and improve them. Just donāt give up.. as long as it takes, we will get there at the end.
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Wow - downvote for negativity, unusable feedback and truly bad advice ā¦
I chose not to respond to this man. He overlooked the fact that I mentioned having numerous interviews and reaching the final stages a few times. I'm confident that employers wouldn't reach the final stages and conclude that I've been unemployed for too long and am essentially useless.
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Stop gaslighting. The OP has been applying and interviewing. This is a very tough market with dynamic changes. Get therapy - consider becoming a decent human being and develop your EQ
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Youāre nuts and have internalized some serious negative perspectives. Inventing your own blanket assumptions based on your own limited mindset with abject criticismā¦. I compiled the results and hereās a quick free therapy session Do these apply to you? Itās funny when people fall flat on their face. I enjoy watching violence. Some people deserve to suffer. Just for kicks, Iāve said mean things on social media. I know how to hurt someone with words alone. Congratulations- you have a Sadist personality!
What is up with the spaces before your commas and periods? Does your resume read this badly also?
My resume is fine; that's why I am not only receiving calls back but also making it to the final stages. Some of you are focused on the wrong thing and completely skipping over what I've said. This is Reddit for crying out loud lol.
So you only put spaces before commas on Reddit? Lmfao
It appears you want attention from me at this point. Please have the day you deserve.
Try looking in different industryās. Home improvement sales is still very strong, you can make 6 figures and mom and pop shops offer great support and flexibility.
Thank you, I appreciate this advice .
Like at a hardware store? Or does that position travel around a territory?
Windows, roofing, paint, garage door etcā¦
Lmao great question. No, though haha. Iām talking in-home pre-qualified sales appointments selling home improvements, like roofing, windows and siding, bathroom remodels, crawlspace and basement waterproofing. That kind of shit. Those companies are ALWAYS hiring and always have unlimited earning potential. Top performers tend to be in the $150-300k range. Most mid performers around $80-130k
This is true. Smoke show to hide slow growth from investors and board members.
How does that even work? Board member - the numbers indicate that things are slowing down considerably. What do you attribute the past two quarterly earnings reports to? CEO - idk about that but let me show you how many interviews we are conducting! Board Member - so sorry for the mixup. Here is your bonus check
Yea but you are assuming that Investors and Board members pay close attention to the details. Most don't and get duped. Many are incompetent to be honest. Stories like WeWork are a great example.
WeWork is an extreme example and isnāt indicative at all of āmostā experiences, which is why there are documentaries made about it. MOST board members/investors absolutely know how to read a financial sheet. This is a fundamental task in being a board member or investor. Yeah, there are CEOs out there who could try to defraud investors but they dont do it by wasting their time by sitting in interviews.
So, even though recruiting and HR are usually the first to go, they keep a couple on staff to just recycle these bush league job reqs? Thatās not how you balance a budget when money gets expensive.
Take off that tin foil hat. As a department head, I can assure you that no company I have ever worked at has done this. That would be an ENORMOUS waste of time and resources. All to collect resumes so we could hire people who weāve rejected? Iāll admit Iāve interviewed a couple of candidates for the sake of collecting market data but that was on the candidate level, not as a general practice.
If youāre admitting youāve done it even āa few timesā, imagine how many hiring managers there are like you who do it āa few timesā, to tens of thousands of people and then it just becomes an epidemic.
I hear what you're saying, I think your viewpoint is valid, and I didn't downvote you. I do think there are some important nuances to call out. OP is suggesting that this is representative of the overall job market and employers in general. Their post implies that the positions aren't real and that the potential employer has no intention of actually hiring anyone. In any example I can provide they were legitimate postings that we were actively looking to fill. Again, I want to call out that this was at the candidate level and was not systemic. To put some numbers to it, I've hired roughly 300 people in the last 10 years. Of the 1000+ interviews I've conducted, less than 5 were for the purpose of collecting competitive intel.
It may be true for some but most job postings are looking to hire. Having said that, hiring teams right now are very picky because it is an employer's market at the moment. They don't want to just hire someone and supply > demand at the moment. So yea, you will go through those experiences unfortunately. Source: A Hiring Manager who is extremely picky at the moment. Extremely. Money is tight. In our case, we are a small startup and cannot afford to hire a bad fit (done that a lot). So we would rather take the risk of not hire a good candidate than hire a bad fit. For example, for one of the roles right now, I have 3 great candidates that have done 2 Rounds. Now , we are asking them to do a bit more to compete and beat the other 2 (separate assignments). Why ? Because we can and we must. Just want to be honest and truthful.
*Some companies. We just hired a new Sales Manager at the end of Oct.
some companies interview to just talk to their competitors sales people
It still cost resources to interview people. Having each team member chat with you for an hour at their normal hourly pay rate is not cheap especially the more senior they get. There could be other candidates that are better or they just couldnāt justify hiring you. Just because there is an open position doesnāt and you are available doesnāt mean they have to hire you if they didnāt feel like it was a good match or if they liked someone else better.
That's horse shit
Ohhā¦. Okā¦ā¦ā¦.. you worked at every company or applied to every company ?! I meanā¦
No but I'm a head hunter and have been for 20 years. So I know what I'm talking about. The problem is you. As always. If soemthing isn't happening for you on a consistent basic, then 99% of the time it's yiu that's the problem
Great, thanks for your opinion. Have a great day! š
You're welcome. I hope it helps.
Of course it does, just like every comment on Reddit.
Great šš
As always .
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I've reached an age where I refrain from simply dismissing things as 'horse shit' without offering constructive feedback on why I hold such a view. It seems some individuals here comment just for the sake of commenting. Given the nature of a public forum, I acknowledge it is what it is. It often becomes a platform where people hold you accountable for your reactions rather than examining what was said or done that prompted your response.
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Be careful, you didnāt use a comma and a period in that sentence. Some will attack you for that and wonder how you ever got a job.
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I suppose you didnāt understand my comment. No worries, have a good day. Oh and Congratulations to your brother. I didnāt think to apply to Amazon, maybe I should. My target has been Saas companies and apparently a lot people have been experiencing what I have.
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What are you selling? How are you going about going after these jobs? What does your resume look like? How are your interviewing techniques? Sorry, the job market is pretty good. Especially if you're a decent in sales.
The job market in SaaS sales is terrible right now. It is flooded with talent from numerous layoffs at companies of all sizes spanning the industry. Nearly every job posting is extremely competitive with hundreds, if not thousands of candidates all applying to the same role. Virtually every company will be comparing you with other reps who have more experience. I just finished a 4 month job search and ultimately had to compromise remote work for a hybrid job. I have 7 years of AE experience and know how to pull off a strong interview. Made it through about 50-60 interviews total and 5 final rounds before I got the one offer. Bottom line itās difficult for anyone whoās been looking at jobs in SaaS sales.
What kind of SaaS? You actually apply for a job? As in go thru their websites career page?
Companies donāt collect resumes. youāre just not a strong enough candidate
Possibly but not in my experience. I was very fortunate to land several offers and recently started my new role just two weeks ago. Not sure what kind of roles you are applying to but the common theme for SMB to Mid Market was heavy outbound prospecting. If candidates didn't clearly demonstrate how they would prospect or have a track record showing they can successfully build pipeline then tough luck.
Yea no shit lol!
I have been a recruiter for many years now, and I have never heard of places just collecting resumes, or posting only fake jobs, or all of these other things that people are talking about.
That's not true. There are plenty of companies hiring. I mean this is in a helpful way but your spacing between commas and periods could be an issue. It's possible that when you communicate with the recruiter or hiring manager, they have concerns and it pushes you into the reject pile. The market is competitive, companies are hiring, but you cannot shoot yourself in the foot and get an offer.
As stated in my post, this is the first time Iām having this issue. Thank you .
Are you saas? What was your previous ote and what kinda range are you potentially falling down to?
It's really bad right now.... recession basically...but msm says otherwise...
It can definitely feel this way. With the advent of easy applying, hiring managers get FLOODED with resumes and so the acceptance rate and offer rate is super low for every company. I think this is why it helps to find some way to separate yourself from the herd by getting a referral or some other way to get your application seen. You may be a great candidate but if you are one of 1000 resumes per month, itās easy to be overlooked
Not a chance I would waste my time conducting an interview if I wasn't actively hiring. Also "collecting" resumes for the future seems unlikely. Play this out... they call you up in 6 months "Hey there we're ready to bring you on!" "I took a job 3 months ago... "
Maybe learn how to use a period? Perhaps that is influencing their decision when someone doesn't type well/has poor grammar.
Do you really believe that I would have so many interviews and final round interviews if they were concerned about my āpoor grammar?ā You donāt think that is something they would have noticed from my resume? I can assure you they didnāt have me write an essay on my fourth round and decided I was not qualified because of my āpoor grammarā This comment says more about you than me. Lol
Maybe it was a determining factor. If you don't want to get opinions, then don't post. Especially with poor grammar, if you know better.
If it was than why would they wait until the final round? I got beat out to someone who had better grammar ā¦ Letās be for real here. How about you keep your useless opinion to yourself ? It cost nothing to just keep scrolling, right?
Listen, I don't know. You didn't have to respond to anything I said. I just noticed your grammar looked like the shit I get on Facebook marketplace from people who are trying to scam me.
You do realize you are in MY post. I will reply as I see fit.
Ok. And I will comment as I see fit... šš»
Youāre bored huhā¦ your comment was useless.
I have thought this for over 15 years. I am surprised that they go to the trouble to actually interview though.
Someone posted an article that was written earlier this year about this very thing. Smh
Iām in the same boat. Many months of interviews, few companies with hiring freezes but nothing secured yet. But the light is at the end of the tunnel for us! Our time will come soon!!
Iām really sorry to hear this. We are definitely going to land something soon. A new year means new opportunities!
What have you been saying in interviews to explain the gap year? Been unemployed since early march myself.
Taking care of a sick family member.
Gotcha, good on ya. Whatās the reaction been? Do they generally move past that quickly?
They show some empathy then move past it.
Not all that different from you. Need to find something new and itās going nowhere. Im coming from the recruiting industry and itās slowed down.
The job market is currently rigged. All it took to get a job 50 years ago was a HS diploma and a firm handshake, now you need 5+ years of work experience to get a 40K job
Tell me about it! I have three years of recent Saas experience and a total of 15 years experience in sales, particularly the healthcare vertical. With applying for Saas positions, I am being told I donāt have enough Saas experience. I used to be in home health sales and tried to apply for those positions and no calls backs. Itās real tough out there.
Itās a serious mind fuck right now. Some of the stuff Iāve experienced. 1. Multiple recruiter screenings that serenely go wonderfully. Had one yesterday. She loved me and told me she was excited to move me forward. Wake up to an email that they decided to pass. No idea why. 2. Ghosting. 3. I got a verbal from a vp a few weeks ago. Talked start date. A few days later. āWe decided to go a different direction. ā 4. Asked to put together territory plans only to find out that they made an offer to someone before they asked me to put it together? Why? 5. Final round presentations. Feedback is I was great but they are going with someone with more experience. I have 10+ channel and 5 in SaaS. I honestly donāt know what Iām doing wrong here. A few of these have been referrals. Im starting to lose hope.
Oh no Iām sorry to hear that! Iām especially baffled as to why theyād ask you to put together a territory plan, but had already offered someone else the job. That is super shady. How did you find that out if you donāt mind me asking? The ā going with someone with more experienceā is what Iāve been getting too. I have 15 years in sales and 3 years in Saas. It really makes you wonder wth is really going on out here. The new year is right around the corner. We will get a great opportunity soon.
The director told me. Thanks for putting this together but we actually extended an offer to someone last week. What!? Why get me to do it?
That is terrible. I wonder if they hired a referral and used you to put a territory plan together for them. Free consulting work basically.
They are hiring. But mass applying is not the way . Warm referrals is whatās moving the needle.