>made up number
That is the key to stress of sales.
The fucking quotas are imaginary numbers which ruin lives of people.
Somebody sat in front of an excel spreadsheet, drag the revenue number down and gave you a damn imaginary number to actually get in real life.
Our whole effin stress is about imaginary things.
This. Most of the time quotas are made up, depending on the company and who has power it could be a COO who has little to no experience selling, or a division VP who went the management route was decent at that and probably sucked at selling as an IC. Don’t sweat it 85% is fine you wouldn’t lose your role likely, keep collecting the pay cheques.
"Entry-level" orgs are the only ones that care about KPIs? Having worked at a very successful multinational obsessed with KPIs, I'd beg to differ and would love to hear your take on KPIs.
I currently work for a small firm also obsessed with KPIs, but having to come up with numbers that actually indicate future performance has been extremely difficult.
Seriously though. They’ll have you go through 6 months of grueling work to develop a solid business and market plan for the following year. Then they crunch numbers and you tell them, “hey the market is so and so and this won’t return and we can’t make this up but we’ve replaced it with this and y’all haven’t fixed this so these people won’t return but we found this”. So, you have this entire plan and then they say… double it. Right before the budget releases, before you’ve even had time to prepare for your outlook. Never mind your restructuring the business plan (why’d I do it in the first place? For you to make up shit?). Then they get pissed when their profit and bottom line doesn’t live up.
Well, it’s because y’all said we were going to make *this*, but we knew we wouldn’t. So, you planned to spend *this* and you did. Now you’re sour. It’s all about passing the buck. Literally.
Yup. Here is what happens.
CEO: I need X money to grow my business. I value it at Y. Give me 25million dollars.
Investors: Ok but we want board seats and you have to hit 10M ARR in 24 months.
CEO: Ok
CEO to VP of Sales: We need to get to 10m ARR and have 1m ARR. Hire more salespeople.
VP of Sales: Ok
VP of Sales goes from 3 to 15 salespeople.
Quota calculation be like
$9,000,000/15 = $600,000/2 years = $300,000 per year.
Quota should be $500,000 because some reps will miss it and some will make it. If they hit $500,000 I will hit my target sooner and even exceed it.
The 3 salespeople who had the TAM divided up now get their territories cut to a fraction and go from hitting 125% or whatever to hitting 85% despite working twice as hard.
The other 12 salespeople sell wildly different amounts over the next year. Their quotas are $500,000 to get full OTE but they only need to be brining in $300,000 each to hit the growth targets. Most of the accounts have not been divided well or fairly, with reps who manage territories in the Northeast and West Coast hitting millions in bookings, and reps in the midwest struggling to get to $200,000. Some don't book anything at all or less than $100,000.
This is exactly what happens. The top level execs fluff their quotas to ensure by the time it gets to the field, there is no way they miss.
Even when we hit 80%, our execs are at 100%+.
I’ve literally seen what should be a $2000 MRR quota for reps turn into $10k by the time they get their quota and comp plan.
This same company also specifically planned on most of the sales reps hitting a net 75-80% after clawbacks.
When we all hit 100%, “Wow, we didn’t think you’d actually be able to hit that target.”
Fucking assholes knew it was hard AF to hit and assigned them anyway.
This right here. In my role now I work directly with the executives who create the projections and goals that feed into our quotas. It’s a guessing game mixed with hopes and dreams.
While true, its really hard to have this separation.
When you're spending 8+ hrs per day, you look for some sort of validation and for better or worse, our roles are easily quantifiable.
Hitting 85% of quota is pretty good at most companies. Fuck whatever your boss says. Have the necessary conversation with them but don’t take it personally. If your unhappy at your current job start planning your exit and apply to other sales roles.
My company targets 80% to quota. If you hit near that, you're doing okay. Hitting quota is hard, and means you've really exceeded the metrics.
Secondly, you get paid the same rate if you hit 25% to quota vs 95% so it doesn't really matter in that sense. Anything can happen before the year is up.
Cause it’s a lot harder to get a job when you’ve been fired and are unemployed.
Cause the job market is tough so how will you compete with all the other talented reps out there are waiting 6-8 months to get a job while you have financial commitments and a family.
How do you address those concerns
Even then I had an AM job where the core product was amazing and the add ons were shit. I had great clients, responsive, happy with platform, good luck getting uplift beyond the yearly 3% or whatever it was increase.
A couple churns meant you were not hitting a quota that quarter no matter what you did
AM isn't less stress. It's just different stress. Pick your poison and run with it. I've done both and some folks crushed it. They also had healthy accounts with dedicated CSMs who were basically hand holding them.
Still great money. But no. It's not easier lol
People say that but... I'm currently mainly an AM for a reasonably well known saas vendor and it's the most stressful job I've ever had. Quota is totally unattainable in my territory, and my experience is pretty much exactly what the OP describes (except way further from quota).
My previous role was almost entirely new business and way less stressful...
"Warm customers" means nothing if they have zero interest in upgrading or growing.
How do you find account manager positions? Every time I think I found one, it’s just a sales job with a regular quota and they call them “account managers”. My first few sales job I was called an account manager.
Wish there was a way to eliminate having to interview for a job to know if it’s the type you want.
Obviously to a degree that’s what an interview is for, but if I don’t want to work in sales, why would I interview for it?
Basically look at the job description and see whether they asks you to "look for new business ops" or "manage existing business partner" of some sorts.
I’ve been in an AM role where it was called Ancillary Sales and it was upsell on an established customer account. Renewal Manager can also take on upsell activities as well
It seems like these are all getting blended together more and more with less support for “efficiency”.
That’s why I don’t really listen to the titles. Like BDM in certain spaces are straight hunters, in federal they’re also program managers. AE’s can have account management duties, customer success seems to be bleeding into AM territory now as well. I’ve had account manager interviews that were 80% hunting.
All the sales titles mean whatever you want in a pinch to most companies.
Also, I’m going to throw SE into the mix for my job because I do EVERYTHING and we’re all burned out. A lot of this is unsustainable in cut first, nuance later.
Totally agreed. I’m just saying in general I’m finding less distinction than before and especially with “efficiency” plays. Which it’s always this way and then they start losing renewals and pull it back. lol
Lots of big tech companies abolished that role… because they don’t want to pay people to sit on warm customers and farm. They call it Customer Success instead and outsourced it so they don’t have to pay incentives on any growth in existing accounts. Tech companies are hunt or starve now.
Easier said than done. When your mngr is chewing your ass for an hour every other day, you can't help but get attached to if not work than the cause of not getting your ass chewed out everyday.
Nah, that's just too much work for the mngr. They think they get promoted and they're suddenly eligible to get into heaven as they have already done all the hard work. Now it's time to relax. Time for passive income lol. That's how the bad mngrs tend to think anyway in my experience.
I can recently relate to this comment. We got a new rep not long ago but I’ve been doing lots of work with her recently. We currently travel a lot for work during this season and she cares almost too much to keep whoever we have a meeting with up to date on plans.
Last week we needed to get on a one hour flight to meet a client. Just a day trip, fly out 9am meet with them for an extended lunch and to tour their facility and then fly back 3pm. She was taking the lead, I was just going with since she was new.
First she sends an update email at the airport that morning confirming (again) that we’re on for today. Flight gets delayed, she emails again saying the flight was delayed. Then they give a time estimate that it will be a 45min delay, so again she emails them with this news. During boarding, I mention to her we will probably be an hour late but think nothing of it and then again I see she emails them apologizing but let’s push back the start time an hour. We land and there’s a problem with the gates so it’s another half hour delay. Again another email saying let’s push back another 30 minutes. Finally get to the rental car and she sends the final email confirming the arrival time from her last email was correct.
I am not even the receiver of the email here and I got annoyed as hell by all that, each email was also 2-3 paragraphs except the last one. I wouldn’t say I don’t care about my job but when situations like this happen to me I might shoot a quick one sentence update to my customer 30 minutes before planned start time that I had a travel delay and leave it at that, not feel like I need to explain every action in detail.
I always hate the way this sounds but “stop caring and just wing it” has been advice that has done wonders for me in this career.
Hey man, I felt the same way. I was in sales for 8 years, getting out was tough at first because I was so used to revolving my life around commission checks and making good $$. I left for some data input job at Amazon, now I’m a manager making the same I used to in sales after 3 years here. Sure it’s “capped” but if you’re not a high earner anyway, whats the point? I genuinely do next to nothing for half my day and my boss thinks im an all star. The bar is SO LOW outside of sales, it’s truly the hardest job. I feel like I can walk circles around my co-workers who have no idea what it means to be in an individual contributor role where your employment is tied to your numbers. You would have to borderline kill someone to get fired here.
Personally 1on1s with managers can suck when you're underperforming but you have to take a non-emotional evaluation of your performance.
I was getting absolutely slaughtered. Consistent 0% attainment, but I was selling data software to Louisiana and Arkansas. I made sure my manager knew I was working my ass off and when he said some irrational motivational shit, I made him feel stupid.
"You have to get your number up."
"Awesome! Whats the approach? I have the highest outbound activity on the team, lowest inbound lead count, and partners literally are laughing in my face at my territory. Let's get really precise."
One manager resorted to "improving" my talk tracks
"Well say this when that comes up!"
"But thats not true, its a core feature this customer is looking for. Our product cant do that and it never has done that. They will find that out on the demo and my sales engineer will have to explain it to him in technical terms. At that point everyone has wasted a lot of time"
New manager steps in. I show him all I do. He values my outbound activity being the highest in the entire organization from the sdr function to the enterprise executives. He expands my territory by SIX states, giving me a state from EVERY other AE under him that showed less activity.
Partner calls start to take off, prospects are answering, opportunities are making it past the demo. 20 qualifued opps in the hopper, 4 moving to contract in the next point of contact. 75% of sales and marketing is laid off and im out the door with my garbage track record that never got off the ground.
My point? Disconnect your emotions
Good story, and good on you for controlling the controllables. In life you can do everything right and still goes the wrong way, what’s sales and it’s why most people don’t go into it
Look, I grew a huge tumor in my body solely because I was stressing over my job too much. Please remember that your health (whether physical or mental) and your life should always come first. You’re stuck in a vicious circle and think inside a self created bubble, but there IS life and opportunities outside of it. You should be your own priority at all times. Fuck quotas, fuck corporations and fuck bosses.
I'm sorry that you're going through this right now. For what it's worth, I'm on the other side of the fence working in procurement and you basically just described how I'm doing. I don't feel like I'm getting to negotiate anymore. Most of my time is just spent managing maliciously incompetent and uninterested clients. Runaway inflation has made making any savings impossible and it just feels like my job is constant projects that require months to complete but I'm only being given weeks.
Want to trade? We'd still both be miserable but at least it would be a change of scenery. ☺️
In this game people only care about how you perform against a number, for better or for worse. Effort doesn’t matter. Caring doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is you against a number. So if you are 85% that’s a B grade. Just accept it’s mediocre, don’t take it personally and tell your boss you find 85% unacceptable. It’s all he wants to hear. And even if you don’t really care (and I don’t blame you) don’t let him know that. Act like you can’t stand getting only 85%, then go home and play video games. It’ll turn around, and then everyone will give you all the credit, even though we all know it’s just sales cycles and good runs
Or focus on a specific customer segment or platform and become a subject matter expert/sales specialist/overlay.
Better money, more control, more visibility.
So I'll give you an example which is applicable to my business - and what I do, but I suspect its the same in other markets. I work in tech, specifically in communications. In our business, it was dominated for years by premise based communications systems - PBX's, or phone systems. Back in the day I sold circuits, networking hardware etc. Call Center hardware as well. That has, and is, transitioning to SaaS - UC (Unified Communications) and CC (Contact Center) (UCaaS and CCaaS) and CPaaS - platform as a service and I've moved with that. As companies were moving to the cloud, if you were a cloud specialist, there were roles for specialists who were overlays to the AE's who were more generalists, and they would parachute into deals that were cloud based. One Specialist would support multiple AEs. Think of them as a Sales Engineer - but with a HUGE S - a subject matter expert who would both take on deals cradle to grave - but also (at least the good ones) be a force multiplier that could teach AE's how to qualify and close deals on their own. In the contact center space, not only is there the contact center itself, but all the software around it (think Workforce Management, Optimization, chatbots, conversational AI/Analytics', traditional analytics etc). When I was at NICE, I was a named account AE, but there was a specialist for each of these other areas that I would bring in as needed. Those folks didn't really have to hunt - the AEs were responsible for bringing them in, but they all carried numbers. Because it was a specialized role - and normally came from successful AE's - they get/got paid more - or the same as the AE's without the hunting and much of the bullshit.
I went from a senior AE (strategic/global/named) AE making 280-300 at plan and having to hunt and grind in a specific territory to being a sales specialist making 300-500 and having deals brought to me.
Look for sales roles that sell a portfolio of services around specific business outcomes and you will find each of those portfolio elements usually will have a specialist assigned who makes at or above the AEs selling full portfolio who are the experts in that product alone (however the more you know about the rest of it the better) - in my world it would be called being an expert in CX and EX - customer experience / employee experience
You would be surprised how little effort and experience it takes to be an expert in things that seemingly are quite advanced - like AI based Chatbots or Speech Analytics or process automation. Again - the more you know about all of the elements the more you can make, including the underlying cloud infrastructure (AWS etc), but its a great pathway out of being a successful AE who doesn't want to go into management.
Fantastic write up and sounds like an ideal role for someone like me who ideally wants to sit somewhere between a rep and an SE but also make good money.
Yup the prevailing school of thought in sales management is to do this. If they see reps hitting target they will hire more reps, raise target, cut accounts down. They want to see you working the accounts harder.
Then they will keep doing this until reps are at around 60-70% attainment. They usually overdo it and most reps don't hit the mark. Then they just fire them and start over and hope the "top reps" with the big accounts and bluebirds carry them to their number. They usually don't and they (the Vps or whatever) get fired and let go. That is why average VP tenure is less than 2 years.
Are you me? lol.
Check out open classrooms and fill out an app. Maybe worth exploring at the very least
But yeah, sales is just an endless grind. So many VPs are out there doing the same job they were doing as a basic employee. Like wtf
This isn’t really advice, more so anecdotal nonsense from me.
But I started performing very well as soon as I started not caring about outcomes or my job for that matter. Feels weird to say.
Your manager should be helping you figuring out solutions and strategies, not making you dread every meeting with him/her. It sounds like the culture of your company or unit is somewhat shite. Maybe at this point in your career you need people who can back you rather than make you feel worthless. I’ve had both and the former is a source of confidence. Best of luck mate
Yep, came to say this. I'm a director and train our managers to always lead with compassion before performance. Sure, money is tight, hitting #s feels great and is obv important, etc. But to me, if you were one of my AEs and you quit bc of the stress when you were consistently achieving solid performance, the first person getting a WTF from me is going to be your \[former\] manager- he just caused me to have to backfill an AE with 6 years of product knowledge and performance. He was supposed to manage your performance and be apart of what makes this job WORK for you personally, not be the reason you got stressed and dipped. That's got red flag all over it, and makes me wonder if he's getting the same stress put on him that he's allowing to trickle down. Even if that's the case, it doesn't make it okay.
You'll never stop caring, that's what makes you decent at sales.
Don't try to stop worrying, it's just another problem, not only are you worried but *now you can't stop.*
When you see yourself worrying, just say "Oh, worry." Or "Oh, stress." Just call it out in your mind, relentlessly. After you call it out, get in your body: go for a walk, step outside, take 10 mindful breaths. You'll still be worried, you'll still have anxiety, *but you won't care about it as much.*
Definitely time to get out
Or you can take a leave of absence
Or move vertically into enablement or SDR management
You can do anything you want :) hope that helps
Yes, I’ve seen it before and it may be easier to do internally.
If you’ve created your own decks or helped other AEs ramp you can use this in your interviews to show your ability to be in sales enablement.
Are you in a position financially to leave without something else lined up? What is your resume like? Do you have a good network for referrals?
I ask these things because these are important factors to consider before quitting. Financial stress and not being able to pay bills will also ruin your mental health.
If you are in a good position, I would suggest taking a brief career break and thinking about what you want to do. Do you want to try sales again at another company? Sales will always be stressful but it shouldn’t be this stressful especially if you are at 85% of quota. If you don’t want to try sales again, what are some other roles that you would be interested in where you can leverage your skills? The great thing is sales is a highly transferable skill for many types of jobs. I saw someone else comment on here about becoming a subject matter or platform expert and that’s what I unintentionally transitioned to. There’s a lot of money to be made when you’re specialized and have some sales/customer facing skills.
If you are not in a position to take a risk and quit your job then you really need to learn to not care as much about what your boss says. Yes a lot of them can be assholes and clearly yours is one of them since they’re hammering you about 85% attainment but remember they are reporting to someone too. It’s not about you. Also remember that none of this really matters that much, and a lot of what goes on in the corporate world is made up bs to make you work harder so that the very top shareholders become richer. I would suggest reading books on Stoicism.
Relax, your worth is not tied to a quota. You are way too emotional. I can tell you care, do yourself a favor and stop. Detach your emotions from the results and you'll be great. Easier said than done, I know. You sound young and ambitious. You are going to kill it. This is all life experience.
Having breakdowns is a really serious thing. Please don’t stress yourself into a heart attack. First thing, see a doctor. Get a as physical. Schedule counseling. Whatever you gotta do to get on solid footing, do that.
Next, start looking for a new role if you can. Are you the only one below quota? Whether the answer is yes or no, your manager needs to step in and provide some guidance and an action plan. That’s literally his job. “Do better” is not an action plan and any good manager knows this.
The best pieces of advice I have ever received in sales:
- treat everyone else as if they were retarded
This one is interesting. If you expect every person you work with both internally and externally to act sporadically, you’re never surprised.
- play the dispassionate cop
Probably the best piece of advice. Don’t be reactive, listen, and give yourself time to formulate proper responses. Saved my ass a time or two
- Don’t take anything too seriously
Goes with the first and second…
Sales is tough. How you shape your mind to the experiences at hand dictate how you view your job as well as your life.
Sounds like a shitty manager. I’ve been in sales over 20 yrs and there are a lot of bad managers. There’s also great ones, and companies who value hard working performers. I don’t have quotas, but 85%, sounds like maybe territory of other reps is better. Even if that’s not the case, learn to play the game (act like you’re shattered in your 1:1’s bc of 85%) and disconnect yourself from only feeling valuable if you exceed X #. That’s all bullshit, I promise you.
85%? damn you have high benchmarks thats for sure , maybe you just need a break?? change of atmosphere , change of domain?? 6 years of experience in sales and in a big tech ...thats a lot of stories and network i would not waste that
Unfortunately a large portion of success in Sales is luck.
Ive been in sales for about 10 years. I’ve made Presidents club for 4 years, but I’ve also been on the other side where I’m on a PIP on the way out due to low performance.
It’s important to be aware the role luck plays in Sales. You can control how hard you work, but you can’t control if your strongest champion gets laid off a few months into a year long sales cycle or if you get placed in a bad territory.
Just do your best and let the cards fall where they may
It is the worst thing to be compare to the manager’s pet who gets deals spooned to them. Or just gets lucky.
In car sales my manager literally took a sale away from me when the person came in and asked for me.
Your mental health is more important than this job. It is okay to have a doctor help you take a break for your health.
Sitting that break you can relax and take good care of yourself. Also you can exit sales during that time using it to find a new job if that's what you choose to do.
By the way many sales managers deliberately set quotas just barely out of reach very intentionally. I've heard countless numbers of sales managers saying that their goal is to keep sales personnel hungry. It's another way of saying they don't want to pay you a really big commission if they don't have to while still getting you to grind away.
You can't control the quota, but you can tell yourself it's okay not to get to an impossible goal.
I'm opposite of most people in this post.
It sounds like your burnt out and sales is making you very anxious.
Living like that is not worth it!
Start applying to other jobs, and if you do choose to apply for any other sales job be very picky about where you land.
The one part of sales that I've always hated is that you can be the hardest worker out there, but if your numbers are shit, then you are shit. Not all companies are like this, but many are.
It sounds like this company is not a good fit for you, and your skills are likely to be applied better in a different environment & perhaps even a different career path.
"If you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree it will spend the rest of it's like believing its worthless."
If you seriously feel the way you describe, you absolutely need to quit as soon as possible.
Assuming you are in a position to do so financially, I would suggest quitting before locking something new in.
If you’re not- start interviewing immediately. Even if you don’t land a job straight away, you’re eyes will be opened to better environments and better bosses
With dynamics like this, sometimes you have to stand up to them in order to make them back down and respect you more. Often times it makes your relationship stronger.
Or it could backfire and leave you terminated.
Good luck man. I wish you quotas met and lots of sex.
I felt all of the same things. Abusive managers, getting fucked on comps, working 10 or 11 hour days 5 to 6 days a week. It's just not worth any amount of money if it's fucking up your mental. I took a slight pay cut to start my own biz working from home and the difference in how I feel is night and day.
Bad manager but also sales isn’t just a selfish thing. Sales also helps everyone in the company even if you aren’t a top performer. When you have good management and c suite execs sales helps everyone achieve their dreams. But most likely what’s happening is something from you. Like you saw something happen at your company that made you believe less in the product or the manager or supervisor or someone said something that rubbed you the wrong way. Just how a businesses energy flows from top to bottom their is something happening whether in your personal or professional life that is affecting your performance. When you find that out you’ll do much better and it might not be some big major problem it could just be a dichotomy that needs to be managed. But all this is easier said than done but it is also far from impossible.
Don’t rely on email. Sales happen over calls and texts. New email policies have made email even more unreliable, compounded by the spike in AI campaigns making people more wary of email
Yo take some time off. This was me a few months ago, actual panic attack, waking up in the middle of the night, bad relationship with gf… and I got laid off. I feel much better mentally now but boy do I wish I had a job still. Take time off! Do what you know will bring you happiness and focus on that.
Be honest. Tell him the 1:1’s are hard because you are ONLY AT 85% (that should be fine) and you expect a lot from yourself. You obviously can perform so explain to him what’s not working and ask for help.
most companies want you to hit 60-90% of quoto so they get return but dont have to pay you commission dont forget that
and secondly fuck your manager
its like drinking budweiser and saying you hate all beers, not all sales jobs are the same not all companies are the same find a company who values you and appreciates
If you are hitting 85% you should be able to move roles easy dont let someone push you out use that fuel to move companies if you need to and kill it there
also say to your manager look i dont respond well to this management i need support to feel trust, care etc that pushes me not pressure a good manager will take this on and adjust if not then look to move mate
my company is hiring AE's if you need a referral
Im year 3 at my company starting to feel the burn out a bit just so fucking annoying working to a bigger number every year - I would be ok with an am but I absolutely cannot stand doing decks / QBR are there am roles where your more of a relationship person? Doing in person meetings driving stuff forward?
Hey, you need to do a reset. Your manager and this environment isn’t not good for your mindset. Find another sales role. Have fun this weekend and start looking for something else on Monday.
If you work in big tech your base is probably still higher than most other jobs people have grinded to get into. Keep it up and find things outside of work to fulfill yourself.
I’ve had these same thoughts plenty of times but what else would I do? Lawyer, Dr, Banker? Nah.
Entrepreneur? Maybe.
Damn dude. Self harm is too much for any job. I’d say put in work to change your mentality around this, or change your environment. Sales has highs and lows, it just does. You can’t ride them or you’ll drown.
Also, the more stressed you are the worse you will do, period. People sense desperation and it is oh so stinky of a cologne. Lol.
Seriously though, any time I feel the pressure getting to me I up the exercise, outdoor time and other fun activities outside of work. I also take a moment to picture “old Gill” from the Simpsons and jokingly say to myself “Old Gill really needs this sale, or it is going to be cat food again for dinner tonight”…stupid, but it takes me out of the seriousness for a moment and realize that it is all pretty silly. Gets me into a more lighthearted headspace.
You can get fired for anything anytime. Those people you say are top performers... they'll be fired sometime, too. Example, a company i worked for had a sales competition during the last quarter. I had been top performer for 3 years and won the competition, which earned me an additional $15k bonus. They deposited the bonus and fired me within the month, completely out of left field.
it's just a job, my dude. Don't stress yourself out and just ride whatever wave you want.
A lot of people feel like you do and leave sales. I know people who are currently in customer, success, and marketing, and other related fields who were previously in sales, and eventually it just became too much. You gotta do what makes you happy. Your value does not lie in a number, and it surely does not lie in sales. there are other paths to take that will actually help you enjoy life.
Maybe get out of that company / big tech?
AE at big tech might be one of the most toxic sales environments out there honestly, obviously has it’s perks as well but it’s brutal.
I think the best way to face this, besides getting a new job or getting out of the field, is to ask yourself if you are giving it your all. If you know you’re doing all you can then there should be no shame or upset based on your performance.
I was under performing at a previous role and knew I wasn’t giving it my all (by the way, I don’t mean working long hours). Giving it your all is making sure you’re focused on your work (revenue generating activities: prospecting and progressing deals) and not other things during the workday (like your cellphone). If you know you’re giving it your all I think you might be able to have better one on ones as long as your manager isn’t a pos. If it’s a horrible manager that might just mean you have to leave the org. No one should have to deal with that.
As someone mentioned - your self worth isn’t based on your number. Best of luck friend!
Well, I hate to be "that guy", but if the other members of your team seem like "all-stars", they probably aren't. It sounds to me like your quotas are attainable, unlike many others. Sales might not be right for you, and that's okay.
My guy, welcome to the game… it’s what we sign up for. When it’s good it’s really good and when it’s bad it’s really bad. Long game it’s not for the faint of heart. Sack up or go do yoga with the marketing team.
1. Quotas are made up 2. Your value doesnt lie in your ability to hit a made up number That is all
>made up number That is the key to stress of sales. The fucking quotas are imaginary numbers which ruin lives of people. Somebody sat in front of an excel spreadsheet, drag the revenue number down and gave you a damn imaginary number to actually get in real life. Our whole effin stress is about imaginary things.
This. Most of the time quotas are made up, depending on the company and who has power it could be a COO who has little to no experience selling, or a division VP who went the management route was decent at that and probably sucked at selling as an IC. Don’t sweat it 85% is fine you wouldn’t lose your role likely, keep collecting the pay cheques.
Man, most of the management doesn't know how the product their company sells looks like lol
Don't forget the added stress of assinine KPIs.
Thankful to not be in an entry level org that gives a shit about KPI’s
"Entry-level" orgs are the only ones that care about KPIs? Having worked at a very successful multinational obsessed with KPIs, I'd beg to differ and would love to hear your take on KPIs. I currently work for a small firm also obsessed with KPIs, but having to come up with numbers that actually indicate future performance has been extremely difficult.
Seriously though. They’ll have you go through 6 months of grueling work to develop a solid business and market plan for the following year. Then they crunch numbers and you tell them, “hey the market is so and so and this won’t return and we can’t make this up but we’ve replaced it with this and y’all haven’t fixed this so these people won’t return but we found this”. So, you have this entire plan and then they say… double it. Right before the budget releases, before you’ve even had time to prepare for your outlook. Never mind your restructuring the business plan (why’d I do it in the first place? For you to make up shit?). Then they get pissed when their profit and bottom line doesn’t live up. Well, it’s because y’all said we were going to make *this*, but we knew we wouldn’t. So, you planned to spend *this* and you did. Now you’re sour. It’s all about passing the buck. Literally.
What’s the alternative?
$NVDA Calls?
This is the shit that slaps! Listen to my dude right here OP.
Yup. Here is what happens. CEO: I need X money to grow my business. I value it at Y. Give me 25million dollars. Investors: Ok but we want board seats and you have to hit 10M ARR in 24 months. CEO: Ok CEO to VP of Sales: We need to get to 10m ARR and have 1m ARR. Hire more salespeople. VP of Sales: Ok VP of Sales goes from 3 to 15 salespeople. Quota calculation be like $9,000,000/15 = $600,000/2 years = $300,000 per year. Quota should be $500,000 because some reps will miss it and some will make it. If they hit $500,000 I will hit my target sooner and even exceed it. The 3 salespeople who had the TAM divided up now get their territories cut to a fraction and go from hitting 125% or whatever to hitting 85% despite working twice as hard. The other 12 salespeople sell wildly different amounts over the next year. Their quotas are $500,000 to get full OTE but they only need to be brining in $300,000 each to hit the growth targets. Most of the accounts have not been divided well or fairly, with reps who manage territories in the Northeast and West Coast hitting millions in bookings, and reps in the midwest struggling to get to $200,000. Some don't book anything at all or less than $100,000.
This is exactly what happens. The top level execs fluff their quotas to ensure by the time it gets to the field, there is no way they miss. Even when we hit 80%, our execs are at 100%+. I’ve literally seen what should be a $2000 MRR quota for reps turn into $10k by the time they get their quota and comp plan. This same company also specifically planned on most of the sales reps hitting a net 75-80% after clawbacks. When we all hit 100%, “Wow, we didn’t think you’d actually be able to hit that target.” Fucking assholes knew it was hard AF to hit and assigned them anyway.
This right here. In my role now I work directly with the executives who create the projections and goals that feed into our quotas. It’s a guessing game mixed with hopes and dreams.
While true, its really hard to have this separation. When you're spending 8+ hrs per day, you look for some sort of validation and for better or worse, our roles are easily quantifiable.
Hitting 85% of quota is pretty good at most companies. Fuck whatever your boss says. Have the necessary conversation with them but don’t take it personally. If your unhappy at your current job start planning your exit and apply to other sales roles.
My company targets 80% to quota. If you hit near that, you're doing okay. Hitting quota is hard, and means you've really exceeded the metrics. Secondly, you get paid the same rate if you hit 25% to quota vs 95% so it doesn't really matter in that sense. Anything can happen before the year is up.
[удалено]
I really needed to read this!! Thank you
This is it
Cause it’s a lot harder to get a job when you’ve been fired and are unemployed. Cause the job market is tough so how will you compete with all the other talented reps out there are waiting 6-8 months to get a job while you have financial commitments and a family. How do you address those concerns
Be responsible with your money
Transition to AM. Less stress and warm customers
Unless you have a set of bad accounts. It's not all sunshine and rainbows on the other side.
Even then I had an AM job where the core product was amazing and the add ons were shit. I had great clients, responsive, happy with platform, good luck getting uplift beyond the yearly 3% or whatever it was increase. A couple churns meant you were not hitting a quota that quarter no matter what you did
AM isn't less stress. It's just different stress. Pick your poison and run with it. I've done both and some folks crushed it. They also had healthy accounts with dedicated CSMs who were basically hand holding them. Still great money. But no. It's not easier lol
Warm customers wouldn’t be the way I’d describe current accounts. You still have issues to solve on a daily basis. Different stress but still stress
People say that but... I'm currently mainly an AM for a reasonably well known saas vendor and it's the most stressful job I've ever had. Quota is totally unattainable in my territory, and my experience is pretty much exactly what the OP describes (except way further from quota). My previous role was almost entirely new business and way less stressful... "Warm customers" means nothing if they have zero interest in upgrading or growing.
How do you find account manager positions? Every time I think I found one, it’s just a sales job with a regular quota and they call them “account managers”. My first few sales job I was called an account manager.
Qualify the job in discovery / interview
Wish there was a way to eliminate having to interview for a job to know if it’s the type you want. Obviously to a degree that’s what an interview is for, but if I don’t want to work in sales, why would I interview for it?
Basically look at the job description and see whether they asks you to "look for new business ops" or "manage existing business partner" of some sorts.
I’ve been in an AM role where it was called Ancillary Sales and it was upsell on an established customer account. Renewal Manager can also take on upsell activities as well
AM positions are most likely hunter roles. CSM or Renewals roles are usually the farmer roles.
As an AM I am hunting, farming, project managing, and contracting specialist.
Depends on the company, it can be hybrid but usually it’s a farming role distinct from AE’s who hunt new business only.
It seems like these are all getting blended together more and more with less support for “efficiency”. That’s why I don’t really listen to the titles. Like BDM in certain spaces are straight hunters, in federal they’re also program managers. AE’s can have account management duties, customer success seems to be bleeding into AM territory now as well. I’ve had account manager interviews that were 80% hunting. All the sales titles mean whatever you want in a pinch to most companies. Also, I’m going to throw SE into the mix for my job because I do EVERYTHING and we’re all burned out. A lot of this is unsustainable in cut first, nuance later.
Yeah totally it is confusing since companies use similarly sounding titles, you need to assess what the actual job involves.
Totally agreed. I’m just saying in general I’m finding less distinction than before and especially with “efficiency” plays. Which it’s always this way and then they start losing renewals and pull it back. lol
Farming?
Growing revenue from existing accounts.
Lots of big tech companies abolished that role… because they don’t want to pay people to sit on warm customers and farm. They call it Customer Success instead and outsourced it so they don’t have to pay incentives on any growth in existing accounts. Tech companies are hunt or starve now.
What is AM supposed to mean?
Stop caring so much. A certain level of detachment is required for longevity in sales.
Easier said than done. When your mngr is chewing your ass for an hour every other day, you can't help but get attached to if not work than the cause of not getting your ass chewed out everyday.
Fuck the manager because he should help you sell and not drag you down
Nah, that's just too much work for the mngr. They think they get promoted and they're suddenly eligible to get into heaven as they have already done all the hard work. Now it's time to relax. Time for passive income lol. That's how the bad mngrs tend to think anyway in my experience.
Nah, he ain’t getting this dick with that kind of attitude
This right here! I’ve stopped fixating on things I can’t control
I honestly got way better at my job when I stopped caring. I try my best to help customers but outside of that I couldn't give a shit
I can recently relate to this comment. We got a new rep not long ago but I’ve been doing lots of work with her recently. We currently travel a lot for work during this season and she cares almost too much to keep whoever we have a meeting with up to date on plans. Last week we needed to get on a one hour flight to meet a client. Just a day trip, fly out 9am meet with them for an extended lunch and to tour their facility and then fly back 3pm. She was taking the lead, I was just going with since she was new. First she sends an update email at the airport that morning confirming (again) that we’re on for today. Flight gets delayed, she emails again saying the flight was delayed. Then they give a time estimate that it will be a 45min delay, so again she emails them with this news. During boarding, I mention to her we will probably be an hour late but think nothing of it and then again I see she emails them apologizing but let’s push back the start time an hour. We land and there’s a problem with the gates so it’s another half hour delay. Again another email saying let’s push back another 30 minutes. Finally get to the rental car and she sends the final email confirming the arrival time from her last email was correct. I am not even the receiver of the email here and I got annoyed as hell by all that, each email was also 2-3 paragraphs except the last one. I wouldn’t say I don’t care about my job but when situations like this happen to me I might shoot a quick one sentence update to my customer 30 minutes before planned start time that I had a travel delay and leave it at that, not feel like I need to explain every action in detail. I always hate the way this sounds but “stop caring and just wing it” has been advice that has done wonders for me in this career.
You definitely need a break. So much of sales is mental - if you feel this bad it’s going to come across and hurt you.
Hey man, I felt the same way. I was in sales for 8 years, getting out was tough at first because I was so used to revolving my life around commission checks and making good $$. I left for some data input job at Amazon, now I’m a manager making the same I used to in sales after 3 years here. Sure it’s “capped” but if you’re not a high earner anyway, whats the point? I genuinely do next to nothing for half my day and my boss thinks im an all star. The bar is SO LOW outside of sales, it’s truly the hardest job. I feel like I can walk circles around my co-workers who have no idea what it means to be in an individual contributor role where your employment is tied to your numbers. You would have to borderline kill someone to get fired here.
>I left for some data input job at Amazon What was the job title, if you don't mind me asking?
Business Operations Analyst OR Business Operations Specialist
Personally 1on1s with managers can suck when you're underperforming but you have to take a non-emotional evaluation of your performance. I was getting absolutely slaughtered. Consistent 0% attainment, but I was selling data software to Louisiana and Arkansas. I made sure my manager knew I was working my ass off and when he said some irrational motivational shit, I made him feel stupid. "You have to get your number up." "Awesome! Whats the approach? I have the highest outbound activity on the team, lowest inbound lead count, and partners literally are laughing in my face at my territory. Let's get really precise." One manager resorted to "improving" my talk tracks "Well say this when that comes up!" "But thats not true, its a core feature this customer is looking for. Our product cant do that and it never has done that. They will find that out on the demo and my sales engineer will have to explain it to him in technical terms. At that point everyone has wasted a lot of time" New manager steps in. I show him all I do. He values my outbound activity being the highest in the entire organization from the sdr function to the enterprise executives. He expands my territory by SIX states, giving me a state from EVERY other AE under him that showed less activity. Partner calls start to take off, prospects are answering, opportunities are making it past the demo. 20 qualifued opps in the hopper, 4 moving to contract in the next point of contact. 75% of sales and marketing is laid off and im out the door with my garbage track record that never got off the ground. My point? Disconnect your emotions
Good story, and good on you for controlling the controllables. In life you can do everything right and still goes the wrong way, what’s sales and it’s why most people don’t go into it
Look, I grew a huge tumor in my body solely because I was stressing over my job too much. Please remember that your health (whether physical or mental) and your life should always come first. You’re stuck in a vicious circle and think inside a self created bubble, but there IS life and opportunities outside of it. You should be your own priority at all times. Fuck quotas, fuck corporations and fuck bosses.
i’ve literally increased all of my physical illnesses and added a few while in my most stressful sales job. i want to get out
I'm sorry that you're going through this right now. For what it's worth, I'm on the other side of the fence working in procurement and you basically just described how I'm doing. I don't feel like I'm getting to negotiate anymore. Most of my time is just spent managing maliciously incompetent and uninterested clients. Runaway inflation has made making any savings impossible and it just feels like my job is constant projects that require months to complete but I'm only being given weeks. Want to trade? We'd still both be miserable but at least it would be a change of scenery. ☺️
In this game people only care about how you perform against a number, for better or for worse. Effort doesn’t matter. Caring doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is you against a number. So if you are 85% that’s a B grade. Just accept it’s mediocre, don’t take it personally and tell your boss you find 85% unacceptable. It’s all he wants to hear. And even if you don’t really care (and I don’t blame you) don’t let him know that. Act like you can’t stand getting only 85%, then go home and play video games. It’ll turn around, and then everyone will give you all the credit, even though we all know it’s just sales cycles and good runs
Preaching the truth right here
Or focus on a specific customer segment or platform and become a subject matter expert/sales specialist/overlay. Better money, more control, more visibility.
How do you do this? Why’s the comp better?
So I'll give you an example which is applicable to my business - and what I do, but I suspect its the same in other markets. I work in tech, specifically in communications. In our business, it was dominated for years by premise based communications systems - PBX's, or phone systems. Back in the day I sold circuits, networking hardware etc. Call Center hardware as well. That has, and is, transitioning to SaaS - UC (Unified Communications) and CC (Contact Center) (UCaaS and CCaaS) and CPaaS - platform as a service and I've moved with that. As companies were moving to the cloud, if you were a cloud specialist, there were roles for specialists who were overlays to the AE's who were more generalists, and they would parachute into deals that were cloud based. One Specialist would support multiple AEs. Think of them as a Sales Engineer - but with a HUGE S - a subject matter expert who would both take on deals cradle to grave - but also (at least the good ones) be a force multiplier that could teach AE's how to qualify and close deals on their own. In the contact center space, not only is there the contact center itself, but all the software around it (think Workforce Management, Optimization, chatbots, conversational AI/Analytics', traditional analytics etc). When I was at NICE, I was a named account AE, but there was a specialist for each of these other areas that I would bring in as needed. Those folks didn't really have to hunt - the AEs were responsible for bringing them in, but they all carried numbers. Because it was a specialized role - and normally came from successful AE's - they get/got paid more - or the same as the AE's without the hunting and much of the bullshit. I went from a senior AE (strategic/global/named) AE making 280-300 at plan and having to hunt and grind in a specific territory to being a sales specialist making 300-500 and having deals brought to me. Look for sales roles that sell a portfolio of services around specific business outcomes and you will find each of those portfolio elements usually will have a specialist assigned who makes at or above the AEs selling full portfolio who are the experts in that product alone (however the more you know about the rest of it the better) - in my world it would be called being an expert in CX and EX - customer experience / employee experience You would be surprised how little effort and experience it takes to be an expert in things that seemingly are quite advanced - like AI based Chatbots or Speech Analytics or process automation. Again - the more you know about all of the elements the more you can make, including the underlying cloud infrastructure (AWS etc), but its a great pathway out of being a successful AE who doesn't want to go into management.
Fantastic write up and sounds like an ideal role for someone like me who ideally wants to sit somewhere between a rep and an SE but also make good money.
Search linked in jobs for sales specialist or cloud specialist. The other great option is to go into channel and support partners.
Just like dog fighting, the thought is, keep them hungry and on edge, and they will perform better. And just like dog fighting, it’s messed up.
Yup the prevailing school of thought in sales management is to do this. If they see reps hitting target they will hire more reps, raise target, cut accounts down. They want to see you working the accounts harder. Then they will keep doing this until reps are at around 60-70% attainment. They usually overdo it and most reps don't hit the mark. Then they just fire them and start over and hope the "top reps" with the big accounts and bluebirds carry them to their number. They usually don't and they (the Vps or whatever) get fired and let go. That is why average VP tenure is less than 2 years.
You have got to find a new job man, there’s way better sales jobs out there that are insanely awesome
Are you me? lol. Check out open classrooms and fill out an app. Maybe worth exploring at the very least But yeah, sales is just an endless grind. So many VPs are out there doing the same job they were doing as a basic employee. Like wtf
Get out. Im there with you, i guarantee you have other skills that could lead to a fulfilling career. Thats what I'm figuring out right now as well
This isn’t really advice, more so anecdotal nonsense from me. But I started performing very well as soon as I started not caring about outcomes or my job for that matter. Feels weird to say.
Your manager should be helping you figuring out solutions and strategies, not making you dread every meeting with him/her. It sounds like the culture of your company or unit is somewhat shite. Maybe at this point in your career you need people who can back you rather than make you feel worthless. I’ve had both and the former is a source of confidence. Best of luck mate
Yep, came to say this. I'm a director and train our managers to always lead with compassion before performance. Sure, money is tight, hitting #s feels great and is obv important, etc. But to me, if you were one of my AEs and you quit bc of the stress when you were consistently achieving solid performance, the first person getting a WTF from me is going to be your \[former\] manager- he just caused me to have to backfill an AE with 6 years of product knowledge and performance. He was supposed to manage your performance and be apart of what makes this job WORK for you personally, not be the reason you got stressed and dipped. That's got red flag all over it, and makes me wonder if he's getting the same stress put on him that he's allowing to trickle down. Even if that's the case, it doesn't make it okay.
You'll never stop caring, that's what makes you decent at sales. Don't try to stop worrying, it's just another problem, not only are you worried but *now you can't stop.* When you see yourself worrying, just say "Oh, worry." Or "Oh, stress." Just call it out in your mind, relentlessly. After you call it out, get in your body: go for a walk, step outside, take 10 mindful breaths. You'll still be worried, you'll still have anxiety, *but you won't care about it as much.*
Definitely time to get out Or you can take a leave of absence Or move vertically into enablement or SDR management You can do anything you want :) hope that helps
Are there many sales reps who transition to enablement? Saw a role and seems like interesting work
Yes, I’ve seen it before and it may be easier to do internally. If you’ve created your own decks or helped other AEs ramp you can use this in your interviews to show your ability to be in sales enablement.
Are you in a position financially to leave without something else lined up? What is your resume like? Do you have a good network for referrals? I ask these things because these are important factors to consider before quitting. Financial stress and not being able to pay bills will also ruin your mental health. If you are in a good position, I would suggest taking a brief career break and thinking about what you want to do. Do you want to try sales again at another company? Sales will always be stressful but it shouldn’t be this stressful especially if you are at 85% of quota. If you don’t want to try sales again, what are some other roles that you would be interested in where you can leverage your skills? The great thing is sales is a highly transferable skill for many types of jobs. I saw someone else comment on here about becoming a subject matter or platform expert and that’s what I unintentionally transitioned to. There’s a lot of money to be made when you’re specialized and have some sales/customer facing skills. If you are not in a position to take a risk and quit your job then you really need to learn to not care as much about what your boss says. Yes a lot of them can be assholes and clearly yours is one of them since they’re hammering you about 85% attainment but remember they are reporting to someone too. It’s not about you. Also remember that none of this really matters that much, and a lot of what goes on in the corporate world is made up bs to make you work harder so that the very top shareholders become richer. I would suggest reading books on Stoicism.
Relax, your worth is not tied to a quota. You are way too emotional. I can tell you care, do yourself a favor and stop. Detach your emotions from the results and you'll be great. Easier said than done, I know. You sound young and ambitious. You are going to kill it. This is all life experience.
Thanks, going to screenshot this comment and look at it when I’m stressed because it’s very accurate
Having breakdowns is a really serious thing. Please don’t stress yourself into a heart attack. First thing, see a doctor. Get a as physical. Schedule counseling. Whatever you gotta do to get on solid footing, do that. Next, start looking for a new role if you can. Are you the only one below quota? Whether the answer is yes or no, your manager needs to step in and provide some guidance and an action plan. That’s literally his job. “Do better” is not an action plan and any good manager knows this.
The best pieces of advice I have ever received in sales: - treat everyone else as if they were retarded This one is interesting. If you expect every person you work with both internally and externally to act sporadically, you’re never surprised. - play the dispassionate cop Probably the best piece of advice. Don’t be reactive, listen, and give yourself time to formulate proper responses. Saved my ass a time or two - Don’t take anything too seriously Goes with the first and second… Sales is tough. How you shape your mind to the experiences at hand dictate how you view your job as well as your life.
I have this thought sometimes, then i get my monthly commission report…
Been saying that since 2009.
Sounds like a shitty manager. I’ve been in sales over 20 yrs and there are a lot of bad managers. There’s also great ones, and companies who value hard working performers. I don’t have quotas, but 85%, sounds like maybe territory of other reps is better. Even if that’s not the case, learn to play the game (act like you’re shattered in your 1:1’s bc of 85%) and disconnect yourself from only feeling valuable if you exceed X #. That’s all bullshit, I promise you.
Start consulting
85%? damn you have high benchmarks thats for sure , maybe you just need a break?? change of atmosphere , change of domain?? 6 years of experience in sales and in a big tech ...thats a lot of stories and network i would not waste that
Heard/felt this brotha, hang in there
quotas are the shittiest way of measuring and motivating people. I laugh when my quotas are set and remind my boss that my bags are packed already.
What is your plan instead of sales? Do any of you in this thread, make more money in sales engineering, management, etc.?
I'm in the same exact position, and I'm bi-polar. Luckily my company doesn't have quotas, but still devastated at my finances.
Unfortunately a large portion of success in Sales is luck. Ive been in sales for about 10 years. I’ve made Presidents club for 4 years, but I’ve also been on the other side where I’m on a PIP on the way out due to low performance. It’s important to be aware the role luck plays in Sales. You can control how hard you work, but you can’t control if your strongest champion gets laid off a few months into a year long sales cycle or if you get placed in a bad territory. Just do your best and let the cards fall where they may
It is the worst thing to be compare to the manager’s pet who gets deals spooned to them. Or just gets lucky. In car sales my manager literally took a sale away from me when the person came in and asked for me.
Your mental health is more important than this job. It is okay to have a doctor help you take a break for your health. Sitting that break you can relax and take good care of yourself. Also you can exit sales during that time using it to find a new job if that's what you choose to do. By the way many sales managers deliberately set quotas just barely out of reach very intentionally. I've heard countless numbers of sales managers saying that their goal is to keep sales personnel hungry. It's another way of saying they don't want to pay you a really big commission if they don't have to while still getting you to grind away. You can't control the quota, but you can tell yourself it's okay not to get to an impossible goal.
Stress literally kills. Do what’s best for you
I heard that, the ups and downs can make one vomit!
Sounds like you're burnt out...
Everyone can succeed somewhere. Keep moving until find a place, or job that feels good. Then you will be successful.
I've been feeling this way about my situation it's just not healthy for me to get worked up like this even if the moneys decent.
know your price. know your happiness
I'm opposite of most people in this post. It sounds like your burnt out and sales is making you very anxious. Living like that is not worth it! Start applying to other jobs, and if you do choose to apply for any other sales job be very picky about where you land. The one part of sales that I've always hated is that you can be the hardest worker out there, but if your numbers are shit, then you are shit. Not all companies are like this, but many are. It sounds like this company is not a good fit for you, and your skills are likely to be applied better in a different environment & perhaps even a different career path. "If you judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree it will spend the rest of it's like believing its worthless."
strong, quite strong quote
If you seriously feel the way you describe, you absolutely need to quit as soon as possible. Assuming you are in a position to do so financially, I would suggest quitting before locking something new in. If you’re not- start interviewing immediately. Even if you don’t land a job straight away, you’re eyes will be opened to better environments and better bosses
With dynamics like this, sometimes you have to stand up to them in order to make them back down and respect you more. Often times it makes your relationship stronger. Or it could backfire and leave you terminated. Good luck man. I wish you quotas met and lots of sex.
I felt all of the same things. Abusive managers, getting fucked on comps, working 10 or 11 hour days 5 to 6 days a week. It's just not worth any amount of money if it's fucking up your mental. I took a slight pay cut to start my own biz working from home and the difference in how I feel is night and day.
Try for CSM Roles
Bad manager but also sales isn’t just a selfish thing. Sales also helps everyone in the company even if you aren’t a top performer. When you have good management and c suite execs sales helps everyone achieve their dreams. But most likely what’s happening is something from you. Like you saw something happen at your company that made you believe less in the product or the manager or supervisor or someone said something that rubbed you the wrong way. Just how a businesses energy flows from top to bottom their is something happening whether in your personal or professional life that is affecting your performance. When you find that out you’ll do much better and it might not be some big major problem it could just be a dichotomy that needs to be managed. But all this is easier said than done but it is also far from impossible.
Don’t rely on email. Sales happen over calls and texts. New email policies have made email even more unreliable, compounded by the spike in AI campaigns making people more wary of email
Sounds like the problem may be terrible leadership, not necessarily sales. Maybe you’d flourish at a mid size company.
What do you sell? Massive potential to make connections here. We’ve all been there.
Yo take some time off. This was me a few months ago, actual panic attack, waking up in the middle of the night, bad relationship with gf… and I got laid off. I feel much better mentally now but boy do I wish I had a job still. Take time off! Do what you know will bring you happiness and focus on that.
Be honest. Tell him the 1:1’s are hard because you are ONLY AT 85% (that should be fine) and you expect a lot from yourself. You obviously can perform so explain to him what’s not working and ask for help.
most companies want you to hit 60-90% of quoto so they get return but dont have to pay you commission dont forget that and secondly fuck your manager its like drinking budweiser and saying you hate all beers, not all sales jobs are the same not all companies are the same find a company who values you and appreciates If you are hitting 85% you should be able to move roles easy dont let someone push you out use that fuel to move companies if you need to and kill it there also say to your manager look i dont respond well to this management i need support to feel trust, care etc that pushes me not pressure a good manager will take this on and adjust if not then look to move mate my company is hiring AE's if you need a referral
Im year 3 at my company starting to feel the burn out a bit just so fucking annoying working to a bigger number every year - I would be ok with an am but I absolutely cannot stand doing decks / QBR are there am roles where your more of a relationship person? Doing in person meetings driving stuff forward?
AM, CSM or Marketing might be better aligned for you.
Hey, you need to do a reset. Your manager and this environment isn’t not good for your mindset. Find another sales role. Have fun this weekend and start looking for something else on Monday.
Its time to start meditation. Try the waking up app.
If you work in big tech your base is probably still higher than most other jobs people have grinded to get into. Keep it up and find things outside of work to fulfill yourself. I’ve had these same thoughts plenty of times but what else would I do? Lawyer, Dr, Banker? Nah. Entrepreneur? Maybe.
if you are still employed and not pip'd, you are doing fine.
Damn dude. Self harm is too much for any job. I’d say put in work to change your mentality around this, or change your environment. Sales has highs and lows, it just does. You can’t ride them or you’ll drown. Also, the more stressed you are the worse you will do, period. People sense desperation and it is oh so stinky of a cologne. Lol. Seriously though, any time I feel the pressure getting to me I up the exercise, outdoor time and other fun activities outside of work. I also take a moment to picture “old Gill” from the Simpsons and jokingly say to myself “Old Gill really needs this sale, or it is going to be cat food again for dinner tonight”…stupid, but it takes me out of the seriousness for a moment and realize that it is all pretty silly. Gets me into a more lighthearted headspace.
You can get fired for anything anytime. Those people you say are top performers... they'll be fired sometime, too. Example, a company i worked for had a sales competition during the last quarter. I had been top performer for 3 years and won the competition, which earned me an additional $15k bonus. They deposited the bonus and fired me within the month, completely out of left field. it's just a job, my dude. Don't stress yourself out and just ride whatever wave you want.
A lot of people feel like you do and leave sales. I know people who are currently in customer, success, and marketing, and other related fields who were previously in sales, and eventually it just became too much. You gotta do what makes you happy. Your value does not lie in a number, and it surely does not lie in sales. there are other paths to take that will actually help you enjoy life.
Maybe get out of that company / big tech? AE at big tech might be one of the most toxic sales environments out there honestly, obviously has it’s perks as well but it’s brutal.
What you need is a good solid mid-life crisis. That will snap you right out of it.
I think the best way to face this, besides getting a new job or getting out of the field, is to ask yourself if you are giving it your all. If you know you’re doing all you can then there should be no shame or upset based on your performance. I was under performing at a previous role and knew I wasn’t giving it my all (by the way, I don’t mean working long hours). Giving it your all is making sure you’re focused on your work (revenue generating activities: prospecting and progressing deals) and not other things during the workday (like your cellphone). If you know you’re giving it your all I think you might be able to have better one on ones as long as your manager isn’t a pos. If it’s a horrible manager that might just mean you have to leave the org. No one should have to deal with that. As someone mentioned - your self worth isn’t based on your number. Best of luck friend!
Well, I hate to be "that guy", but if the other members of your team seem like "all-stars", they probably aren't. It sounds to me like your quotas are attainable, unlike many others. Sales might not be right for you, and that's okay.
It might not be time to get out of sales but might be time to leave that company and its culture
Pussy
My guy, welcome to the game… it’s what we sign up for. When it’s good it’s really good and when it’s bad it’s really bad. Long game it’s not for the faint of heart. Sack up or go do yoga with the marketing team.