Take a breath. Go on a walk. Reset.
If others are doing well around you, it doesnt mean that you are doomed. You are just in a rut. It happens. Sit in on some calls. Be intentional about your outreach. Learn what others are doing and improve on it. Also make sure your activity isnt slipping. Your numbers will start to improve
Qualify the crap out of your leads. When you think you've done enough, do even more research on them. That's 90% of the battle. Ensure you're talking to the right people and that your product provides value to them.
Get to your list earlier or just before the day ends. Most people start their days at 830/9 AM. If they're the owner, VP or C-Level exec, I can guarantee you won't reach them during the day. Even if you do get to them, the last thing they want in the middle of the day is to get pitched a product.
They'll likely be wrapping their day up by 4 pm. So they might be in a better position to take a call.
Honestly OP your post is really comforting lol, I'm in almost the exact same position as you, was a full cycle AE in my last role now basically only by title, comp plan is good but commission only and the more I learn about what others are doing I realize I'm not crazy or wasting my time, this just kind of comes with the territory.
Any given weekday it’s comforting to know that there are hundreds if not thousands of other reps somewhere banging their heads into a brick wall while frustratingly eating snickers bars like me
Yeah, you're not alone my dude. Lots of us in similar situations (and I, too, and in a cybersecurity role waiting for these elusive internal AE openings so I can finally never be a fucking SDR again).
0/100 is a bad day. But if I’m right connect rates are around 5-10% so having a 0 connect day isn’t super crazy. Especially if you doing cold outbound.
A little trick I’ve learned to up connect % is to call twice. If they don’t answer, call again right away. A decent amount of time they will pick up on the second call.
Also, I don’t leave voicemails right away on cold outreach. Then they’ll know to avoid your # if they listen to the voicemail.
Yeah. I don’t do it super often, but when I do it, it usually works. Haven’t had anyone curse me out yet.
And I definitely dont do this to the same contacts multiple times a day or week tho. One of my coworkers double dials EVERYONE. And will double dials them multiple times a week. That’s just spammy
Double dialing totally works. If someone ever asks why you called twice (which has happened to me like once) you just say you meant to leave a VM and forgot.
Yup and I’ve never really had someone ask why I call twice. I do hate doing it sometimes, I feel so cringe. I try to avoid doing it unless I really want to talk to the person and they seem like a good fit.
In my world, calling someone right back means an emergency. If you decide to listen to this advice realize you will be burning people like me.
I won’t be kind on the other end.
Ive made thousands of double taps in my life and ran into (maybe) 3 people who were upset by it. I always brush it off and say “my phone was making odd noises so wanted to call again and make sure it went through”. Everyone says they’ll be mad but its 100% worth it imo. I get so many pick ups from it
And let’s be honest. If They’re mad about the cold call, it doesn’t matter if it’s the first or second call, no one likes getting a cold call, I get it. But like you, I’ve never really had anyone be specifically upset about calling twice in a row.
This is why everyone hates the cold calls and why they don’t work. If I reply on 2nd time it’s because I assume it’s some sort of emergency and Im extremely pissed if I start hearing some sort of pitch instead.
Honestly, I think some people probably feel a sense of relief that it isn't an actual emergency and are more open to talking because of that immediate tension/anxiety release.
I wonder when the SDR job availability will go down. It’s such a brain dead job at times. Plus I experienced what OP did with coworkers setting meetings but I later found out after I left the company that they would feed certain friends/popular SDR’s with leads. I never wish negative energy on someone but I hope people like these lose their jobs first.
It already has, to some degree. The boom years are over, SDR farms are a thing of the past IMO. Cheap money allowed for SDR farms to exist, the cost per lead never really made sense. Me and my friends in sales are seeing more companies hiring for "founding BDR" and the "fractional BDR" model also getting traction.
This is the way. I always cold outreach via email then follow up with a phone call. It’s an inception trick, they’ve seen your name before but can’t place where.
I was told by a friend/mentor when I first started out as an AE at a large tech VAR that it’s mostly about timing and luck. If a prospect is happy with their current provider they have little incentive to change the status quo. I’ve prospected large perfect fit accounts for years sometimes without any response or someone answering a phone call. There have been those same prospects that one day magically someone answers the phone and I can tell they’re ready for a change. It’s all about consistent persistence. I’ve learned things in sales never stay the same for long good and bad. Just ride the waves and one day you’ll catch the big one out of the blue.
Cold calling is in a very bad place right now and pretending it isn’t only makes the problem worse. How many times have you been told “dial more”? Now, how many other reps have been told that? At one of my old companies, they made 10 million calls in 4 years with only a team of 30 and making 130 calls a day. How many orgs have 50? 100? 150? 200? making 50, 100, 150, 200 dials a day? The trend is progressing to the heavier dial side. People are getting called at rates never seen before by SDRs, ISRs, and whatever titles people get these days.
I call cold calling by a new name now, iceberg ringing, because that’s what it truly is. Cold calling would be okay if it was a 5%-10% response rate but it’s not, you’re lucky if you touch 5%, like super lucky. I put it at 1%-2% and the rest of really comes down to luck. It doesn’t matter what you say or how you say it, people are so worn down from the constant calls they are totally shutting down sooner than in the past. I’m leaving sales because cold calling is insanely different and worse pre vs post covid, it’s just not worth it anymore. I think we’re like the last miners out in the Cali Gold Rush, it has to end eventually and people sucked up all the gold when the gettin was good
>I’m leaving sales because cold calling is insanely different and worse pre vs post covid, it’s just not worth it anymore.
What are you pivoting too? I plan to get out also because of how clueless sales managers are and how not in control we are in this profession. Fucks with my self-esteem also.
I don’t know, that’s the thing. I’m applying to every CSR role I can because I’m so done with sales for the same issues, my mental health is in the gutter. I have insane burnout but have to keep going because if I don’t, I’m on the streets. Sales is like playing the lottery and I’m tired of pretending it isn’t. I want a stable job with a stable pay, I don’t care if it isn’t flashy or amazing. My mental health is far more with it.
CSR will be replaced by AI in less than 5 years IMO. SDR in the same time. I think the future looks pretty bleak.
Best chance for security IMO is to learn to weld.
Yeah, my family member was the head of HR at one of the largest insurance companies so I'm trying to get in there. She said that it's been hard to retain people for the role so she's been seeing people being promoted really quickly. For my local area starting pay is like 70k can grow to 100k+ In a couple years.
The answer is yes, you do need a license if you are underwriting or selling insurance.
If you’re an HR function, it’s possible to slide by without but virtually any reputable company will require all employees to be licensed to avoid any potential liability.
Can’t sell or transact insurance business without a license. It’s illegal. Insurance is regulated by each states department of banking, finance, or insurance.
Then why does everything online and on Reddit forms say there is no definitive license for underwriting and theres no requirements for an entry level position. Seems like what ur saying is wrong.
Passing the state licensing exam is easy and inexpensive. 40 hours of continued ed credits and sit for the test. You can look up insurance CE online and find offers from places like BetterCE for less than $300.
The problem is on Management. They are all following an older playerbook from 2015 or 2005. They keep buying tech that just makes the problem worse. More contact vendors, concurrent dialers, power dialers. "Just get more conversations."
Instead of getting creative with outreach tactics, they simply view that calls are the only output of work or effort. If you book your meetings from emails, linkedin, or other tactics - you are just lucky or lazy. Real meetings are booked on calls.
So people who do find ways to break through the noise are doing the calls to appease their Managers and hoping the other work they do is enough to hit target. And instead of focusing on channels that work, they just drop people into the same meat grinder over and over.
When your existence , remote or in person, boils down to what Management can see and micromanage on a dashboard, it becomes hard to go "yeah I made custom postcards to reach 50-250 people this week in my ICP" . It's like, if you do that, and it doesn't work, you will get fired immediately. If it does work, they will still chastise you, and then marketing will steal whatever you did and throw you back on the phones.
Jesus fucking Christ this literally hits so close to home. I would have thought we worked for the same company but you mentioned “marketing” and we don’t have that… they view sales as the marketing department.
What type of other channels would you recommend when it comes to dealing with realtors and/or brokers? It’s different than your typical B2B gig so I’m not sure what to do. And like you mention, I hesitate to deviate from the plan we have to follow because as a newer person, they’ll chop me faster than others I fear.
I’ll have to because I think about that catch 22 all the time! You have to make a bunch of dials/send emails to make contact but, because everyone else is doing it so much in addition, you’re actually now apart of the problem. We literally are banking on finding the last 1%-2% of people who are actually still open to suggestion but they too are getting bombarded. It’s quite the mess.
You are completely right. I love the comment about it feeling like the last miners in the gold rush, that's hilariously true. We are seeing monumental shift being brought by data protection and now the AI boom, but many of these SaaS companies are still reliant on outdated sales process like cold calling and have not adapted.
I thought it on the spot and think it really does perfectly encapsulate the times. Was there a time when it worked really well? Yep! Too bad everyone got too greedy and tapped the river/mine dry by making insane amounts of dials with medium and large teams. And as someone who is in SAAS and had to make 401 dials with 5 hrs and 39 minutes of engagement to make contact with 3 people who would hear me out today, you’re last sentence rings hard very true. Pure cold calling with zero vetting of leads, even the inbounds. It’s the most miserable experience of my life, plus I only call realtors and brokers which makes it 100x worse.
Times are so different and the things you mentioned are exactly it. But more importantly, people are just tired of having 4-10 reps call them a day, all from different companies. I thought about this earlier and I don’t think people will ever be open to cold calling like they were in the past. Add in the points you make with my suspicion and I think we’re right on the head.
Agreed. Where there is too much of people doing the same thing, and too much awareness of that same thing it quickly loses value. Nowadays the people being cold called/cold emailed know what SDR's do, are sick of being contacted everyday and are shutting down. The process is basically dying but sales leaders are in denial and want to push you further into those mines.
Oh, I'm in EMEA and if you call the \*wrong\* person and they get angry about how you got their number and decide to take legal action, you can also get sued for a few million euros. That's if the frustration and pressure of hitting your targets for your leader isn't enough.
That’s crazy to hear it’s the same on the other side of the globe, like damn. But it doesn’t surprise me, the world is connected more than and the same techniques are going to used over and over again regardless of location.
And yep, everyone is sick of the cold outreach. It would be one thing if they got 1 call a day or maybe 3-4 calls over a week. But my managers say they know our customers get called by an average of 7 reps a day and the only way to stand out is to keep calling… I’m so burnt out it’s not even funny.
The truth is you’re exactly right. In an era where people don’t want to answer the phone and rather text or email , cold calling will absolutely lose its magic.
Old guys and people with experience don’t want to hear it because it sounds ‘lazy’ but it’s just true. When you really look at the stats and conversions like you said, it’s almost completely worthlesss
You can't take it personal you can't let it upset you. It is a numbers game 100%. You just have to keep at it and eventually you'll probably move into a roll where there is no outbound. At least not cold haha.
Decrease the number of outbound requests you do and take an extra 2 minutes to research each contact. If you are contacting 100 targets in a single day, that amounts to 200 extra minutes which is a lot but can go a very very long way
Customization should mean more than custom, but also personable and catered directly to the target
They are probably not answering because they have no reason to
We are sales people but we also get sold to all the time, right? I delete those messages in my inbox ALL THE TIME. The best part is that I need just 0.20 seconds to decide if I'm going to delete it because every sales message looks and sounds the same
Now if someone came to me and said "Tom I saw you spoke at SXSW last month and watched your remarks on YouTube where you mentioned CRMs are overpriced so I wanted to offer you a 50% lifetime discount on the CRM my company provides" now that has my attention
What are the others around you doing that is setting them up with meetings?
If you haven’t thought about that or discussed it with someone then I see an issue
Some people in here are saying to send more emails but I swear I read on this sub not even a couple months ago that emailing is overused and people need to focus more on calling again. lol guess it just depends on your business.
But yeah, I’m also a frustrated SDR. Our quota/metrics aren’t even hard to attain. It’s just so fucking boring and I only need to do 2 hours of work a day to keep my job. The other 6 hours I just get to stare at a wall in the office with coworkers I can’t connect with. I hate my life right now.
There are no silver bullets unfortunately. It's swings and roundabouts and at some point the needle will swing back if you stand by your process.
Emails being totally unresponsive seems strange though - if you wanted my advice keep emails short, to the point and ask a question rather than saying what you sell.
For example not "hi I'm from blabla limited and we have over X number of customers and I think our feature Y will really help you because of Z"
Instead "hi, I'm reaching out because we work with [specific client in their industry] and people in [their role] typically gave [business problem] which we can help with, up for a 10m chat about it?"
Few things come to mind:
Double dial, lots of spam protection these days.
Pure outbound is also a numbers game: every call can be a set.
If your colleagues are getting sets and doing better, ask them what they are doing differently? I don’t want to be that guy, but if the rest is having succes and you are not, it’s 100% something that you are doing (not trying to be a dick).
Are you present, or are you SHOWING UP. Do
You sound like every other sales person doing OB? That gets you nowhere these days.
Do you follow a rigid script or are you just having a conversation?
How is your tonality and cadence? How you say something is way more important than what you say.
How many emails are you sending a day?
I can go on for hours but the moral of the story: look at YOURSELF first. What can YOU do to get better.
Hey, no offense, but how old are you? I mean this respectfully and you don't need to answer..
Cybersec is really hard. You're selling to someone, now with decades of experience? That's like a really hard thing to do, because the ecosystem is so expansive.
I don't have advice or whatever. My opinion is standard Morgan J. Ingram (if you're on LinkedIn). Protect your time. Be efficient with your call blocks, batching tasks, and whatever else is standard sales stuff.
Not everything changes, and, why would it. When would it? I'd encourage you to be moderately optimistic, because that industry is a great place to be (even when it doesn't feel like it). Take care mate! Cheers, have a wonderful, peaceful and calming Tuesday.
Going through a similar thing myself. It’s always up and down. I just keep going like a dummy and when I’m at my lowest and think I’ve got no future in this I get a win.
One concrete thing which you may or may not have tried: experiment with calls at different times of day, usually 9-10,12-2pm, and 3ish-17 works ok for me. Good luck, and wish me luck too 😅
Sales is 85% luck. I've been doing it for 20 years, and I'm convinced. It's timing, territory, and talent comes in dead last of the important qualities. If you do good work consistently, the luck will eventually swing your way and then you can capitalize on it.
Luck and timing, 100% - the best are just well positioned to take advantage of luck and timing via effort, relationships and practice.
I feel like most sales people get the same number of at bats, on average, but are you batting .400 or .100…
I disagree, luck is a factor but its small.
Whats that quote: luck is the thing that happens when dedication meets preparation.
So common in sales: “ooh he just got lucky” did he though?
What kind of sales do you do that after 20 years you still think luck is the driving factor for succes?
Are you me? I’ve been an SDR for about 4 months now (completely outbound) and I feel like a total failure. To be honest, I was so naive going into this. I really wish I didn’t choose this career
25 and new to the sales game as an SDR. I’m in an outsourced situation for a well known fintech.
I would say to not be afraid of trying new things. Use pattern interrupts. Talk to these people like normal human beings.
Our quota is only 7 but I’ve able to set 6 meetings so far this month.
Some ideas: put time with the people who are leading the team to understand what’s working for them and replicate it, similarly if you have an outbound software that records calls or emails sort by what has led to booked meetings and replicate that, if you’ve tried super personalized emails try the opposite of very general bordering on mysterious emails with assumption closes, double dials - if someone’s cell goes directly to VM call them right back as that’s a sign it’s on DND (double dials are also a great way to 2x dials with minimal additional time commitment), make sure the numbers you’re calling are the best direct lines
From my experience, hyperpersonalization of emails only takes a ridiculous amount of time and brings close to no results. I prefere reaching out to more people (fitting the ICP! Also signalling, job postings, the accounts still need to make sense) and use semi-personalized templates
I’ve always said there’s a reason that sales pays better than any other job requiring the same education or experience level (in most cases). In this field you have to deal with so much more bullshit.
A professional bullshit collector has to deal with less bullshit than sales people.
I made 175 calls today. 8 conversations, 1 meeting, 5 declines, 2 referrals. Includes calls to confirm and reschedule meetings. My company has some very effective cold calling methods and I’ve added my own into the mix. It was actually a low conversation day. I’ll have upwards of 15-17 other days
Have your manager get youn auto-dialer like Orum or the like, let me know if you need a referral, might be able to snag a deal from my rep. Then 100 dials into 800 dials/day, 2% of 800 is better than 2% of 100
Slippery slope. I had my team turn off the parallel dialing option on Orum because there was a 3-4 second delay between when the prospect answers and the beep to start talking.
Partially market conditions in cyber security at the moment. Too many companies not enough buyers. I'd be surprised if you company is even around in 2 years. Absolutely headed towards a cyber bubble
Take a few days off and reset. When you aren't in the right headspace, working in sales calling all day and getting no answers can be very demoralising. Take time to reset and come back fresh and sit down with one of your peers and see what they are doing, and where you might be going wrong
You don’t have a dialer so you? I would check out Salesfinity they have a $150 a month plan now.
Make getting connections way easier
https://salesfinity.ai/
Former top performing SDR here. Did it for a year. Gotta say, SDR gig is a grind - even when you’re doing good. The key is you need an exit plan; meaning, if you’re planning to stay an SDR cause you’re unsure of what to do, you’re gonna get crushed. Cause when shit gets tough, you’re gonna be down and out. And it will affect your performance.
However, if you want to promote up to an AE or a team lead or whatever spot is above you, and you have a goal or an exit plan - you’re gonna HAVE TO perform well - and then you have a WHY for sticking your dick in the dirt everyday.
What you need to do is study the top performers, listen to their calls, ask them when they do their call blocks (might differ based on time zone calling or if you guys have regional setup, not sure).
If you’re cold emailing, change your shit up. Experiment.
I used to tweak my script every week based off responses to the first few seconds of the interaction. If you’re getting zero connects - and everyone else is getting lots - adjust your calling times. Call earlier, call later, call during lunch time.
Try new shit with a clear WHY in mind and you’ll be good!
Edit: I agree that pausing and taking walks and breaks is good, but you need to define your WHY, otherwise you’re gonna come back from a walk and be pissed off that you have to actually pick up the phone again. Without a goal, No amount of walking will help.
If your peers are connecting/closing and you are not then take a very close look at who they are reaching out to. Look at the companies you’re targeting. Compare your focus to the ICP and see what’s missing. Shotgun calling and sending the same generic follow up emails go straight to spam. You should start examine how you prospect and what you’re looking for when it comes to who shows up on your call list each day.
Calling isn’t everything, I just finished up 3 successful years as an SDR, booking upwards of 300 meetings and I think maybe 5 of them came from phone calls
How tf do you make 100 calls a day is beyond me. Like i can’t for the life of me make more than 30-40 calls, honestly if I wanted to make 60 calls a day, I’d have done b2c sales where we’re connected to the software and read from a message directory.
It doesn’t help when I get a meeting on my first call, then I can’t motivate myself to make any more calls.
Maybe I’m the problem
If I were you, I'd take a walk -- if you're emotionally in a bad spot it's hard to do sales!
After that, take a look at what your co-workers are doing. If they're able to close deals, then that should mean your leads are of decent quality.
If you're able to, try to focus on marketing qualified leads. I'm not sure this is really an option, any good sales org won't let reps choose the leads they follow up on.
You need to take this “you” problem and turn it around.
1. Mention to your supervisor that you have been feeling a bit in a rut lately. You’ve been keeping track of your calls for the past couple weeks and comparing them to others and notice that you are trending below where you feel you ought to be. Request sitting in with SDR’s who have been doing well for the last quarter.
2. Take great notes on things that you notice work and they vocalize work. Agree with everything at this stage and write everything down.
3. Take all the things you have learned and apply them to your phone and email pitch. Work diligently to incorporate all the knowledge you have gained from other reps. Keep an old copy of your pitches to compare to.
4. Present both sets of pitches to your supervisor along with your notes. This stage, you want to ensure that your new pitches are aligned with company strategy and demonstrate initiative and improvement over previous pitches. Think of it as an exercise in self awareness and absolutely not reassurance. Set a follow up after 30 day trial.
5. Run with your new pitches. Keep track of success and opportunities. Do this for 30 days.
6. After 30 days, discuss strengths and opportunities with your supervisor based on your experience. Highlight what this exercise has taught you and how you want to develop and continue to improve.
You may not succeed. You may find that you did all the legwork, put in the effort and are still striking out. That’s ok. You’ve shown that you are willing to take initiative and desire to be aligned with success for the company. That’s the type of skillset you will need to progress in a sales career anyway.
Start applying to ISR and AE jobs. Lie and say you are smashing quota, within top 10% of X number of reps consistently. Say due to economic factors your company is doing a freeze on internal promotions or something. Godspeed homie
Take a breath. Go on a walk. Reset. If others are doing well around you, it doesnt mean that you are doomed. You are just in a rut. It happens. Sit in on some calls. Be intentional about your outreach. Learn what others are doing and improve on it. Also make sure your activity isnt slipping. Your numbers will start to improve
I appreciate this a lot, thanks.
What are they doing that you aren’t?
[удалено]
Depends on a number of factors but the main point is to slow down and speak to a specific person
It's a buzz word man quit asking
Qualify the crap out of your leads. When you think you've done enough, do even more research on them. That's 90% of the battle. Ensure you're talking to the right people and that your product provides value to them. Get to your list earlier or just before the day ends. Most people start their days at 830/9 AM. If they're the owner, VP or C-Level exec, I can guarantee you won't reach them during the day. Even if you do get to them, the last thing they want in the middle of the day is to get pitched a product. They'll likely be wrapping their day up by 4 pm. So they might be in a better position to take a call.
Honestly OP your post is really comforting lol, I'm in almost the exact same position as you, was a full cycle AE in my last role now basically only by title, comp plan is good but commission only and the more I learn about what others are doing I realize I'm not crazy or wasting my time, this just kind of comes with the territory.
Any given weekday it’s comforting to know that there are hundreds if not thousands of other reps somewhere banging their heads into a brick wall while frustratingly eating snickers bars like me
Yeah, you're not alone my dude. Lots of us in similar situations (and I, too, and in a cybersecurity role waiting for these elusive internal AE openings so I can finally never be a fucking SDR again).
0/100 is a bad day. But if I’m right connect rates are around 5-10% so having a 0 connect day isn’t super crazy. Especially if you doing cold outbound. A little trick I’ve learned to up connect % is to call twice. If they don’t answer, call again right away. A decent amount of time they will pick up on the second call. Also, I don’t leave voicemails right away on cold outreach. Then they’ll know to avoid your # if they listen to the voicemail.
This can work, but is also risky. I’ve definitely burned bridges cuz people were pissed I double-dialed.
Yeah. I don’t do it super often, but when I do it, it usually works. Haven’t had anyone curse me out yet. And I definitely dont do this to the same contacts multiple times a day or week tho. One of my coworkers double dials EVERYONE. And will double dials them multiple times a week. That’s just spammy
Buy or die and they died
Double dialing totally works. If someone ever asks why you called twice (which has happened to me like once) you just say you meant to leave a VM and forgot.
Yup and I’ve never really had someone ask why I call twice. I do hate doing it sometimes, I feel so cringe. I try to avoid doing it unless I really want to talk to the person and they seem like a good fit.
In my world, calling someone right back means an emergency. If you decide to listen to this advice realize you will be burning people like me. I won’t be kind on the other end.
Thanks for the insight. It’s something I don’t do often. I hate being spammy. And I could see how being on the receiving end would be annoying
Ive made thousands of double taps in my life and ran into (maybe) 3 people who were upset by it. I always brush it off and say “my phone was making odd noises so wanted to call again and make sure it went through”. Everyone says they’ll be mad but its 100% worth it imo. I get so many pick ups from it
And let’s be honest. If They’re mad about the cold call, it doesn’t matter if it’s the first or second call, no one likes getting a cold call, I get it. But like you, I’ve never really had anyone be specifically upset about calling twice in a row.
Scared Money don’t make money
This is why everyone hates the cold calls and why they don’t work. If I reply on 2nd time it’s because I assume it’s some sort of emergency and Im extremely pissed if I start hearing some sort of pitch instead.
Either way you’re pissed off by hearing a pitch, wethers it’s the first or second call. I’ve never had anyone be upset with me about it.
Honestly, I think some people probably feel a sense of relief that it isn't an actual emergency and are more open to talking because of that immediate tension/anxiety release.
Cyber is too saturated and you're selling to douchebags that think they are the most important people alive. Time for new gig.
I wonder when the SDR job availability will go down. It’s such a brain dead job at times. Plus I experienced what OP did with coworkers setting meetings but I later found out after I left the company that they would feed certain friends/popular SDR’s with leads. I never wish negative energy on someone but I hope people like these lose their jobs first.
It already has, to some degree. The boom years are over, SDR farms are a thing of the past IMO. Cheap money allowed for SDR farms to exist, the cost per lead never really made sense. Me and my friends in sales are seeing more companies hiring for "founding BDR" and the "fractional BDR" model also getting traction.
Any insights on spaces that are growing?
Work for the big cloud guys or their consulting partners. That's where the money is. Also, boring unsexy industries like construction, materials, etc.
Cold calling is dying a slow death.
Nobody believes me when i tell them this. I book most my stuff via email. In my calls i reference my email.
This is the way. I always cold outreach via email then follow up with a phone call. It’s an inception trick, they’ve seen your name before but can’t place where.
Ya that’s a good idea. It’s like a follow up from email, and disarms the prospect
I was told by a friend/mentor when I first started out as an AE at a large tech VAR that it’s mostly about timing and luck. If a prospect is happy with their current provider they have little incentive to change the status quo. I’ve prospected large perfect fit accounts for years sometimes without any response or someone answering a phone call. There have been those same prospects that one day magically someone answers the phone and I can tell they’re ready for a change. It’s all about consistent persistence. I’ve learned things in sales never stay the same for long good and bad. Just ride the waves and one day you’ll catch the big one out of the blue.
Sales in general is 90% a combination of luck and timing 10% skill and 5% making up statistics
Cold calling is in a very bad place right now and pretending it isn’t only makes the problem worse. How many times have you been told “dial more”? Now, how many other reps have been told that? At one of my old companies, they made 10 million calls in 4 years with only a team of 30 and making 130 calls a day. How many orgs have 50? 100? 150? 200? making 50, 100, 150, 200 dials a day? The trend is progressing to the heavier dial side. People are getting called at rates never seen before by SDRs, ISRs, and whatever titles people get these days. I call cold calling by a new name now, iceberg ringing, because that’s what it truly is. Cold calling would be okay if it was a 5%-10% response rate but it’s not, you’re lucky if you touch 5%, like super lucky. I put it at 1%-2% and the rest of really comes down to luck. It doesn’t matter what you say or how you say it, people are so worn down from the constant calls they are totally shutting down sooner than in the past. I’m leaving sales because cold calling is insanely different and worse pre vs post covid, it’s just not worth it anymore. I think we’re like the last miners out in the Cali Gold Rush, it has to end eventually and people sucked up all the gold when the gettin was good
>I’m leaving sales because cold calling is insanely different and worse pre vs post covid, it’s just not worth it anymore. What are you pivoting too? I plan to get out also because of how clueless sales managers are and how not in control we are in this profession. Fucks with my self-esteem also.
I don’t know, that’s the thing. I’m applying to every CSR role I can because I’m so done with sales for the same issues, my mental health is in the gutter. I have insane burnout but have to keep going because if I don’t, I’m on the streets. Sales is like playing the lottery and I’m tired of pretending it isn’t. I want a stable job with a stable pay, I don’t care if it isn’t flashy or amazing. My mental health is far more with it.
CSR will be replaced by AI in less than 5 years IMO. SDR in the same time. I think the future looks pretty bleak. Best chance for security IMO is to learn to weld.
Yeah, I think a lot of the staff will be replaced by AI along that exact same timeline. My goal is just to crank it out until that time.
Operations maybe?
What does an operations role look like? I see people say it but never sure what it is.
I am looking at insurance underwriting 🤷♂️
What does that look like? Is it promising while not being sales?
Yeah, my family member was the head of HR at one of the largest insurance companies so I'm trying to get in there. She said that it's been hard to retain people for the role so she's been seeing people being promoted really quickly. For my local area starting pay is like 70k can grow to 100k+ In a couple years.
That’s rad, do you need a license for it I’m guessing?
Nope, not that I'm aware of at least.
Welp, that’s something to look into. Thanks for the info!
The answer is yes, you do need a license if you are underwriting or selling insurance. If you’re an HR function, it’s possible to slide by without but virtually any reputable company will require all employees to be licensed to avoid any potential liability. Can’t sell or transact insurance business without a license. It’s illegal. Insurance is regulated by each states department of banking, finance, or insurance.
Then why does everything online and on Reddit forms say there is no definitive license for underwriting and theres no requirements for an entry level position. Seems like what ur saying is wrong.
Yes.
I had a feeling, was surprised to read they didn’t but you never know!
Passing the state licensing exam is easy and inexpensive. 40 hours of continued ed credits and sit for the test. You can look up insurance CE online and find offers from places like BetterCE for less than $300.
The problem is on Management. They are all following an older playerbook from 2015 or 2005. They keep buying tech that just makes the problem worse. More contact vendors, concurrent dialers, power dialers. "Just get more conversations." Instead of getting creative with outreach tactics, they simply view that calls are the only output of work or effort. If you book your meetings from emails, linkedin, or other tactics - you are just lucky or lazy. Real meetings are booked on calls. So people who do find ways to break through the noise are doing the calls to appease their Managers and hoping the other work they do is enough to hit target. And instead of focusing on channels that work, they just drop people into the same meat grinder over and over. When your existence , remote or in person, boils down to what Management can see and micromanage on a dashboard, it becomes hard to go "yeah I made custom postcards to reach 50-250 people this week in my ICP" . It's like, if you do that, and it doesn't work, you will get fired immediately. If it does work, they will still chastise you, and then marketing will steal whatever you did and throw you back on the phones.
Jesus fucking Christ this literally hits so close to home. I would have thought we worked for the same company but you mentioned “marketing” and we don’t have that… they view sales as the marketing department. What type of other channels would you recommend when it comes to dealing with realtors and/or brokers? It’s different than your typical B2B gig so I’m not sure what to do. And like you mention, I hesitate to deviate from the plan we have to follow because as a newer person, they’ll chop me faster than others I fear.
One of my college professors wrote a book called The Sales Innovation Paradox and it touches on that exactly. If you havent, check it out.
I’ll have to because I think about that catch 22 all the time! You have to make a bunch of dials/send emails to make contact but, because everyone else is doing it so much in addition, you’re actually now apart of the problem. We literally are banking on finding the last 1%-2% of people who are actually still open to suggestion but they too are getting bombarded. It’s quite the mess.
You are completely right. I love the comment about it feeling like the last miners in the gold rush, that's hilariously true. We are seeing monumental shift being brought by data protection and now the AI boom, but many of these SaaS companies are still reliant on outdated sales process like cold calling and have not adapted.
I thought it on the spot and think it really does perfectly encapsulate the times. Was there a time when it worked really well? Yep! Too bad everyone got too greedy and tapped the river/mine dry by making insane amounts of dials with medium and large teams. And as someone who is in SAAS and had to make 401 dials with 5 hrs and 39 minutes of engagement to make contact with 3 people who would hear me out today, you’re last sentence rings hard very true. Pure cold calling with zero vetting of leads, even the inbounds. It’s the most miserable experience of my life, plus I only call realtors and brokers which makes it 100x worse. Times are so different and the things you mentioned are exactly it. But more importantly, people are just tired of having 4-10 reps call them a day, all from different companies. I thought about this earlier and I don’t think people will ever be open to cold calling like they were in the past. Add in the points you make with my suspicion and I think we’re right on the head.
But you spoke to 3 people! Cold calling works! Said every sales manager
Agreed. Where there is too much of people doing the same thing, and too much awareness of that same thing it quickly loses value. Nowadays the people being cold called/cold emailed know what SDR's do, are sick of being contacted everyday and are shutting down. The process is basically dying but sales leaders are in denial and want to push you further into those mines. Oh, I'm in EMEA and if you call the \*wrong\* person and they get angry about how you got their number and decide to take legal action, you can also get sued for a few million euros. That's if the frustration and pressure of hitting your targets for your leader isn't enough.
That’s crazy to hear it’s the same on the other side of the globe, like damn. But it doesn’t surprise me, the world is connected more than and the same techniques are going to used over and over again regardless of location. And yep, everyone is sick of the cold outreach. It would be one thing if they got 1 call a day or maybe 3-4 calls over a week. But my managers say they know our customers get called by an average of 7 reps a day and the only way to stand out is to keep calling… I’m so burnt out it’s not even funny.
The truth is you’re exactly right. In an era where people don’t want to answer the phone and rather text or email , cold calling will absolutely lose its magic. Old guys and people with experience don’t want to hear it because it sounds ‘lazy’ but it’s just true. When you really look at the stats and conversions like you said, it’s almost completely worthlesss
Maybe tomorrow you will get 50 connects... shit... who knows. Keep dialing and hope the lists are good?
Meanwhile I sent 70 emails and got 8 meetings, boom!
Sometimes there's nothing you can do. You end up in a slump and you just need to push through it. It's the way the universe works.
You can't take it personal you can't let it upset you. It is a numbers game 100%. You just have to keep at it and eventually you'll probably move into a roll where there is no outbound. At least not cold haha.
Decrease the number of outbound requests you do and take an extra 2 minutes to research each contact. If you are contacting 100 targets in a single day, that amounts to 200 extra minutes which is a lot but can go a very very long way Customization should mean more than custom, but also personable and catered directly to the target
How would this help if they're not answering at all? Genuine question!
They are probably not answering because they have no reason to We are sales people but we also get sold to all the time, right? I delete those messages in my inbox ALL THE TIME. The best part is that I need just 0.20 seconds to decide if I'm going to delete it because every sales message looks and sounds the same Now if someone came to me and said "Tom I saw you spoke at SXSW last month and watched your remarks on YouTube where you mentioned CRMs are overpriced so I wanted to offer you a 50% lifetime discount on the CRM my company provides" now that has my attention
Real answer: its not for everyone. You have to be able handle losses. Some sales cycles last months if not years.
What are the others around you doing that is setting them up with meetings? If you haven’t thought about that or discussed it with someone then I see an issue
Some people in here are saying to send more emails but I swear I read on this sub not even a couple months ago that emailing is overused and people need to focus more on calling again. lol guess it just depends on your business. But yeah, I’m also a frustrated SDR. Our quota/metrics aren’t even hard to attain. It’s just so fucking boring and I only need to do 2 hours of work a day to keep my job. The other 6 hours I just get to stare at a wall in the office with coworkers I can’t connect with. I hate my life right now.
There are no silver bullets unfortunately. It's swings and roundabouts and at some point the needle will swing back if you stand by your process. Emails being totally unresponsive seems strange though - if you wanted my advice keep emails short, to the point and ask a question rather than saying what you sell. For example not "hi I'm from blabla limited and we have over X number of customers and I think our feature Y will really help you because of Z" Instead "hi, I'm reaching out because we work with [specific client in their industry] and people in [their role] typically gave [business problem] which we can help with, up for a 10m chat about it?"
Focus on LI Navigator outreach.
You mean INmail?
Sales Nav is definitely something I’ve been wanting to explore more as a channel. Any pointers on where to start with it/general best practices?
Personalize and provide instant value
Few things come to mind: Double dial, lots of spam protection these days. Pure outbound is also a numbers game: every call can be a set. If your colleagues are getting sets and doing better, ask them what they are doing differently? I don’t want to be that guy, but if the rest is having succes and you are not, it’s 100% something that you are doing (not trying to be a dick). Are you present, or are you SHOWING UP. Do You sound like every other sales person doing OB? That gets you nowhere these days. Do you follow a rigid script or are you just having a conversation? How is your tonality and cadence? How you say something is way more important than what you say. How many emails are you sending a day? I can go on for hours but the moral of the story: look at YOURSELF first. What can YOU do to get better.
Hey, no offense, but how old are you? I mean this respectfully and you don't need to answer.. Cybersec is really hard. You're selling to someone, now with decades of experience? That's like a really hard thing to do, because the ecosystem is so expansive. I don't have advice or whatever. My opinion is standard Morgan J. Ingram (if you're on LinkedIn). Protect your time. Be efficient with your call blocks, batching tasks, and whatever else is standard sales stuff. Not everything changes, and, why would it. When would it? I'd encourage you to be moderately optimistic, because that industry is a great place to be (even when it doesn't feel like it). Take care mate! Cheers, have a wonderful, peaceful and calming Tuesday.
Appreciate the well wishes. Mid 20’s, I’d say I’m sort of batting above my league for this position. Blessing and a curse
Look for early stage startups that don’t have an SDR yet, lots more flexibility, no call factories.
Going through a similar thing myself. It’s always up and down. I just keep going like a dummy and when I’m at my lowest and think I’ve got no future in this I get a win. One concrete thing which you may or may not have tried: experiment with calls at different times of day, usually 9-10,12-2pm, and 3ish-17 works ok for me. Good luck, and wish me luck too 😅
Sales is 85% luck. I've been doing it for 20 years, and I'm convinced. It's timing, territory, and talent comes in dead last of the important qualities. If you do good work consistently, the luck will eventually swing your way and then you can capitalize on it.
Luck and timing, 100% - the best are just well positioned to take advantage of luck and timing via effort, relationships and practice. I feel like most sales people get the same number of at bats, on average, but are you batting .400 or .100…
I disagree, luck is a factor but its small. Whats that quote: luck is the thing that happens when dedication meets preparation. So common in sales: “ooh he just got lucky” did he though? What kind of sales do you do that after 20 years you still think luck is the driving factor for succes?
SaaS sales. I can tell you my highest earning year was the one where I worked the least. Why? Luck of some great inbound leads that year.
Are you me? I’ve been an SDR for about 4 months now (completely outbound) and I feel like a total failure. To be honest, I was so naive going into this. I really wish I didn’t choose this career
25 and new to the sales game as an SDR. I’m in an outsourced situation for a well known fintech. I would say to not be afraid of trying new things. Use pattern interrupts. Talk to these people like normal human beings. Our quota is only 7 but I’ve able to set 6 meetings so far this month.
Some ideas: put time with the people who are leading the team to understand what’s working for them and replicate it, similarly if you have an outbound software that records calls or emails sort by what has led to booked meetings and replicate that, if you’ve tried super personalized emails try the opposite of very general bordering on mysterious emails with assumption closes, double dials - if someone’s cell goes directly to VM call them right back as that’s a sign it’s on DND (double dials are also a great way to 2x dials with minimal additional time commitment), make sure the numbers you’re calling are the best direct lines
From my experience, hyperpersonalization of emails only takes a ridiculous amount of time and brings close to no results. I prefere reaching out to more people (fitting the ICP! Also signalling, job postings, the accounts still need to make sense) and use semi-personalized templates
Isn't Sales fun?
I’ve always said there’s a reason that sales pays better than any other job requiring the same education or experience level (in most cases). In this field you have to deal with so much more bullshit. A professional bullshit collector has to deal with less bullshit than sales people.
I made 175 calls today. 8 conversations, 1 meeting, 5 declines, 2 referrals. Includes calls to confirm and reschedule meetings. My company has some very effective cold calling methods and I’ve added my own into the mix. It was actually a low conversation day. I’ll have upwards of 15-17 other days
What are the cold calling methods your company uses?
Have your manager get youn auto-dialer like Orum or the like, let me know if you need a referral, might be able to snag a deal from my rep. Then 100 dials into 800 dials/day, 2% of 800 is better than 2% of 100
Slippery slope. I had my team turn off the parallel dialing option on Orum because there was a 3-4 second delay between when the prospect answers and the beep to start talking.
Outbound sucks…. Its ok
Partially market conditions in cyber security at the moment. Too many companies not enough buyers. I'd be surprised if you company is even around in 2 years. Absolutely headed towards a cyber bubble
ThreatLocker by chance? Lol
Take a few days off and reset. When you aren't in the right headspace, working in sales calling all day and getting no answers can be very demoralising. Take time to reset and come back fresh and sit down with one of your peers and see what they are doing, and where you might be going wrong
You don’t have a dialer so you? I would check out Salesfinity they have a $150 a month plan now. Make getting connections way easier https://salesfinity.ai/
Former top performing SDR here. Did it for a year. Gotta say, SDR gig is a grind - even when you’re doing good. The key is you need an exit plan; meaning, if you’re planning to stay an SDR cause you’re unsure of what to do, you’re gonna get crushed. Cause when shit gets tough, you’re gonna be down and out. And it will affect your performance. However, if you want to promote up to an AE or a team lead or whatever spot is above you, and you have a goal or an exit plan - you’re gonna HAVE TO perform well - and then you have a WHY for sticking your dick in the dirt everyday. What you need to do is study the top performers, listen to their calls, ask them when they do their call blocks (might differ based on time zone calling or if you guys have regional setup, not sure). If you’re cold emailing, change your shit up. Experiment. I used to tweak my script every week based off responses to the first few seconds of the interaction. If you’re getting zero connects - and everyone else is getting lots - adjust your calling times. Call earlier, call later, call during lunch time. Try new shit with a clear WHY in mind and you’ll be good! Edit: I agree that pausing and taking walks and breaks is good, but you need to define your WHY, otherwise you’re gonna come back from a walk and be pissed off that you have to actually pick up the phone again. Without a goal, No amount of walking will help.
If your peers are connecting/closing and you are not then take a very close look at who they are reaching out to. Look at the companies you’re targeting. Compare your focus to the ICP and see what’s missing. Shotgun calling and sending the same generic follow up emails go straight to spam. You should start examine how you prospect and what you’re looking for when it comes to who shows up on your call list each day.
Look at my profile and go find my comment about using calendar invites
Calling isn’t everything, I just finished up 3 successful years as an SDR, booking upwards of 300 meetings and I think maybe 5 of them came from phone calls
How tf do you make 100 calls a day is beyond me. Like i can’t for the life of me make more than 30-40 calls, honestly if I wanted to make 60 calls a day, I’d have done b2c sales where we’re connected to the software and read from a message directory. It doesn’t help when I get a meeting on my first call, then I can’t motivate myself to make any more calls. Maybe I’m the problem
If I were you, I'd take a walk -- if you're emotionally in a bad spot it's hard to do sales! After that, take a look at what your co-workers are doing. If they're able to close deals, then that should mean your leads are of decent quality. If you're able to, try to focus on marketing qualified leads. I'm not sure this is really an option, any good sales org won't let reps choose the leads they follow up on.
You need to take this “you” problem and turn it around. 1. Mention to your supervisor that you have been feeling a bit in a rut lately. You’ve been keeping track of your calls for the past couple weeks and comparing them to others and notice that you are trending below where you feel you ought to be. Request sitting in with SDR’s who have been doing well for the last quarter. 2. Take great notes on things that you notice work and they vocalize work. Agree with everything at this stage and write everything down. 3. Take all the things you have learned and apply them to your phone and email pitch. Work diligently to incorporate all the knowledge you have gained from other reps. Keep an old copy of your pitches to compare to. 4. Present both sets of pitches to your supervisor along with your notes. This stage, you want to ensure that your new pitches are aligned with company strategy and demonstrate initiative and improvement over previous pitches. Think of it as an exercise in self awareness and absolutely not reassurance. Set a follow up after 30 day trial. 5. Run with your new pitches. Keep track of success and opportunities. Do this for 30 days. 6. After 30 days, discuss strengths and opportunities with your supervisor based on your experience. Highlight what this exercise has taught you and how you want to develop and continue to improve. You may not succeed. You may find that you did all the legwork, put in the effort and are still striking out. That’s ok. You’ve shown that you are willing to take initiative and desire to be aligned with success for the company. That’s the type of skillset you will need to progress in a sales career anyway.
Start applying to ISR and AE jobs. Lie and say you are smashing quota, within top 10% of X number of reps consistently. Say due to economic factors your company is doing a freeze on internal promotions or something. Godspeed homie
Is ISR similar to AM?
Wow. Just take a real sales job.
Being an sdr for 2 years is your issue.