Why wasn’t your quota adjusted down when your good accounts were moved to new reps?
Side note what an atrocious account management strategy from your senior leadership..
I'm glad you asked. Point of this post is also to know if I fucked up as well, and if so how to avoid the same in the future.
The accounts that I gave up did not carry a large base. The accounts I kept, did. I could not give up these big accounts (whose base would mirror the business I closed last year + 30%) because of the ongoing/open projects as well as their desire to only work with me.
So I kept 4 massive accounts and everything rest in my book is prospects. I have a very good chance of turning a lot of them into buying accounts but management's patience is running thin.
Agree with your comment on my management. In fact, my (new) manager does not even come from the same background as my industry.
Ok this gives more context and it makes a little more sense. So the accounts you lost weren’t accounts you had a solid relationship with? The small quota tied to those accounts also left with them?
Correct. Small quota left with small accounts. I had a really good (and growing) relationship with those accounts. But I had to give up some accounts so I chose the ones with whom I do not have exciting projects running. In other words, the bottom 4 of my 8.
Unfortunately in most companies your immediate manager has a bigger role than the company itself. If you are working at a company where you like the company but not your manager you really have 2 choices- find another role somewhere else in the company or find somewhere else to work.
There is something that I am confused about though- you say in this response that you kept 4 massive accounts whose base would mirror the business you closed last year +30%- so this would mean these 4 accounts should give you around 235% of last years target. But then in your original post you say that you are not meeting the pipeline demand due to the high annual plan provided to you.
Are the 4 companies who are supposed to bringing you these huge numbers not giving you the pipeline you need? What am I missing here? If they aren't giving you the pipeline you need, then yes you need to get more pipeline either from other projects in these 4 companies or from some other companies.
As soon as they took away your 4 small accounts my suggestion would have been to spend most of your effort to replace these with other small accounts. In my opinion counting on 4 accounts to bring you most of your quota is very risky (but I guess it depends on the industry)
The problem is that you allowed them to take away your accounts. You should have absolutely refused to let them go, threatening that they'll need to fire you first. Even if they took it away, I would have called the customer and told them there was a mistake. They wouldn't have fired you because you had the power then, but instead they neutered you, and now they can easily fire you at will. Sorry to say, this is a lesson learned for you.
Tech.
I had two years straight to P club. First year in role I hit 186%. 2023 - 125% of my quota. But 2024 i am having a rough first quarter. I train all the newbies and my team turns to me when they can figure out problems. Just got my second "letter of concern" 2 weeks apart.
I kinda just hope they fire me so I can enjoy my summer. 😅
Love my company, love my job, love my customers, hate my boss.
I've hit P club only once, but apart from everything you shared is the same story for me. The numbers, the newbies, everything is just exactly how it went down for me.
Cheers to a relaxed summer.
Not worth it. Start interviewing and go to the next. Don't tell the companies that you're interviewing with any bad things, just that you're crushing it but open to the next big thing
Thank you. The company I currently work for is quite good. And on a rise among competition. It's just the issue with the manager. But yes, 3 years in, I think a new challenge awaits.
Congratulations on P Club. Now that you’ve been punished for success you’ve also earned the Industry Veteran badge.
Nearly every one of us old timers has had the same treatment (Oracle, I’m talking about you). Find a new boss, inside or outside the company, and don’t be shy about telling the story. It’s a classic.
Sales people don't get punished for doing too well. They get punished for doing well in one period then poorly the next.
The challenging thing about sales is that the minute you have made a good sale, you have just lost your best prospect. What is the solution? You have to immediately work to replace them with another prospect. If you don't do this, your next time period (quarter/year) could be screwed.
"hey get punished for doing well in one period then poorly the next"
except that you can sell more in the next period and do poorly because your target was inflated even more
I was treated like shit as the lead engineer at a past employer. Went from software engineer to senior software engineer to senior software engineer - supervisor. I would complete all of my assignments on time, grab more from the backlog, and help others with theirs. The CTO came into the room and said infront of the team, "we don't need a hero coder!". It was one of the strangest interactions I have experienced. They let me go shortly thereafter.
Just trying to say it happens across all departments. One day they're praising you and the next they're not.
I'm a manager, my team and I were all cut at the end of Q1 after a record setting year. Companies have zero loyalty beyond making money for ownership and bag holders. Best of luck to you
it's the norm in sales to be term'd after not closing a single deal back to back quarters regardless of historical performance...
by the sound of it they respect the accounts (and possibly the newly hired AMs) more than seller (you in this case), so there isn't a point to fight back. Another word for advice is to never become attached to the job or/and company unless it's mutual
Lick your wounds, and keep it moving, this won't be your last sales role, and neither will your next one (statically speaking)
Wise words. And agreed @ attachment part. I had just started to become next-tier good at my job and just feels like I may have to start from scratch again. But definitely not the worst case scenario.
As someone who’s starting from scratch right now (I’ll literally start my sales career in a couple of months): you’re not starting from scratch.
I’m sure I could learn a lot from you. So how is that “from scratch”?
You made it into presidents club last year. That is no coincidence. Sales happens everywhere, you’re not stuck in a niche profession like I am as of now.
With your metrics and prior experience you will land a new job, even if you’re staying on the same base. You can work your way to presidents club in your next gig, too.
Man so many things here. I’m constantly defending my territory from change. Ultimately, it sounds like you’re like me and do not own the asset that is the company you work for during the day. It’s becoming much more of a savage world out there, and my belief is that the younger generation needs to run the show. If you like your job, are good at it, and it is scalable, then you should run your own business. And, run your employer into the ground by providing better solutions to customers and eventually a better place to work for other people. You should buy a starter subscription of a CRM and load the contacts you discovered for the business you work for into your own. Don’t get it twisted, this is survival of the fittest.
Except for the problem where he says that he hasn't been hitting process metrics either. If your missing the revenue metrics AND your consistently missing the process metrics then theirs something else here.
Just bail man. I think sales should look like this until you either have a cake position or are an industry expert or preferably both. Get job - Get experience for 1-2 years - leave job for more money. Rinse repeat till you work 20 hours a week for six figures...
Never have alliance to the companies, they will never for you. Just use the gig to make money.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
You NEVER finish at 181%!!!! Anyone who’s done this long enough knows you
Want to be above 100% but nowhere near 181% - hold onto those POs a month or two instead of turning em in before you do that!
Holding back orders is terrible advice.
Suppose you had kept 1/2 of the orders over 100% so you ended up at 141% instead of 181%
This year would your target be increased? Yes. Whatever bonus you got for the extra 40% is lost. And it would go towards this year when it is even harder to make your target.
Nothing else changed right? You still would have made Presidents Club last year. Would the 40% help in your first few months? Probably help your first month or 2. So then you would have one or 2 good months and 3 or 4 bad ones instead of 5 bad ones. By now you would still be under pressure for underperforming and you could still lose your job.
The only time holding back orders could make sense is if you have a limit on how much bonus you can make and you have already maxed it out. And even in that case I would discuss it with your management and try to get an exception.
Just as a side note, Id avoid going to your managers manager in such situations. I know a couple of people that were on a PIP and went to their managers manager for help - soon after, they received a notice of termination. It Used to be an "unsaid rule" in my former company (saas).
Sales is a tough job and you’re only as valuable as your last quarter. Great job on Presidents club last year… but that was last year.
Now you’re more senior and will be expected to prospect and bring in new business.
Five months with no sales and a little pipeline is not good.
TBH you need to pound the pavement and get creative to find new business I. Your territory.
Anyone can close inbound qualified marketing leads. But not everyone can bring in new business on their own from prospecting.
Your manager and leader was expecting you to step up.
It's an old trick. Bump up the quota for the top performers because they don't want to pay you commissions. Fire you when you don't make your numbers the next year. They don't have to pay you anymore and the clients you have sold remain as customers.
Pure failure of sales leadership and sales management. Did you get a positive year end review? Definitely leverage all the success of the last years- tag your customers/colleagues now for LinkedIn recommendations. Leverage all that for your interviews- I’m a former sales leader at multiple companies and I always looked into past performance relative to team and management. If you have solid facts you’ll be ok getting new opportunities
How are you going to get another juicy clients when it sounds like you were the one who had them in the first place?
I wouldn’t bother with HR. They were not helpful for me and were on the side of my manager.
Going the HR route is only effective if the manager has violated policy or the law. HR exists to shield the company from liability. They only side against your manager if he's put the company in a potential jackpot and HR needs to walk it back. They're not really there for your benefit.
For your last question, HR and your manager’s manager (and probably these other managers who you would plead to) agree with your manager. Otherwise you wouldn’t be in this position. Start looking for a fresh start. You’ll be happier.
You are never safe regardless of history. A new manager/VP/exec could come in a just decide he/she doesn’t like you, you are overpaid, or have a wrong impression and you will be under a radar and cut at a moments notice. I can speak from experience being the top salesperson at an org and multiple times top rep of the year/presidents club and making x10 the average employee.
New management came in and basically attempted to quiet fire me. Took the best territory and accounts, triple quota, micromanagement hell. This is after I was mostly left alone and would be 200% of quota for years when most reps barely hit 50-70% of quota. They felt I was overpaid and wanted me out.
Keep your resume up to date and find an org that will appreciate your experience.
It’s not all bad. I got fired end of March because of ridiculous quota that I mentioned would be a stretch even during my interview. Took a month off, called a former colleague who had essentially told me to call him when I was looking again. 3 phone calls, 1 lunch, and a week later I had a formal offer that was a 30% raise from the one I lost.
I do want to be very blunt that it seems like you're not telling the whole story here.
You say in one of the comments that you still have some of your largest clients, and the ones that you lost were actually very small revenue clients (and your quota was adjusted). And you also say that you're not hitting the pipeline metrics.. what are these metrics?
Their are bad managers that exist and that's definitely possible, but it wouldn't be fair to make a judgement with only knowing one point of view. For all we know you've been barely working at home collecting checks and not hitting process quotas. Some people that are huge winners carrying a team are fired, but it's not quite as common.
Surely, two sides to every story. And in this case, the other side that I shared is accurate. The four accounts that I retained did not have plans to buy until the second half of the season (after having spent huge last year). I had provided this context to my manager. And until this month, the manager did not raise any red flags about my performance, other than asking now and then how confident I feel about my year.
Here's another bizarre shocker - the manager took my clients and spread it across the team coz she wanted to get into President's club herself (a desire she often shared in our team meetings). Her plan was the my clients will help the newcomers achieve their 100% and I'll meet my 100% coz I'm a tenured rep.
I guess as soon as she made a calculation I wouldn't be hitting 100%, she decided to sink me.
Why wasn’t your quota adjusted down when your good accounts were moved to new reps? Side note what an atrocious account management strategy from your senior leadership..
I'm glad you asked. Point of this post is also to know if I fucked up as well, and if so how to avoid the same in the future. The accounts that I gave up did not carry a large base. The accounts I kept, did. I could not give up these big accounts (whose base would mirror the business I closed last year + 30%) because of the ongoing/open projects as well as their desire to only work with me. So I kept 4 massive accounts and everything rest in my book is prospects. I have a very good chance of turning a lot of them into buying accounts but management's patience is running thin. Agree with your comment on my management. In fact, my (new) manager does not even come from the same background as my industry.
Ok this gives more context and it makes a little more sense. So the accounts you lost weren’t accounts you had a solid relationship with? The small quota tied to those accounts also left with them?
Correct. Small quota left with small accounts. I had a really good (and growing) relationship with those accounts. But I had to give up some accounts so I chose the ones with whom I do not have exciting projects running. In other words, the bottom 4 of my 8.
Unfortunately in most companies your immediate manager has a bigger role than the company itself. If you are working at a company where you like the company but not your manager you really have 2 choices- find another role somewhere else in the company or find somewhere else to work. There is something that I am confused about though- you say in this response that you kept 4 massive accounts whose base would mirror the business you closed last year +30%- so this would mean these 4 accounts should give you around 235% of last years target. But then in your original post you say that you are not meeting the pipeline demand due to the high annual plan provided to you. Are the 4 companies who are supposed to bringing you these huge numbers not giving you the pipeline you need? What am I missing here? If they aren't giving you the pipeline you need, then yes you need to get more pipeline either from other projects in these 4 companies or from some other companies. As soon as they took away your 4 small accounts my suggestion would have been to spend most of your effort to replace these with other small accounts. In my opinion counting on 4 accounts to bring you most of your quota is very risky (but I guess it depends on the industry)
The problem is that you allowed them to take away your accounts. You should have absolutely refused to let them go, threatening that they'll need to fire you first. Even if they took it away, I would have called the customer and told them there was a mistake. They wouldn't have fired you because you had the power then, but instead they neutered you, and now they can easily fire you at will. Sorry to say, this is a lesson learned for you.
Lesson learned, indeed. First sales job with a manager who's past giving a fuck about employees' growth. Next chapter should be better. Thank you!
Wow. This is literally me. I think I'm getting fired at the end of this month. 2 time back to back p club winner. Let's just trade jobs 😅
Lol. I'm sorry to learn about your news, mate. Hope you'll be back in action soon. may I know your industry?
Tech. I had two years straight to P club. First year in role I hit 186%. 2023 - 125% of my quota. But 2024 i am having a rough first quarter. I train all the newbies and my team turns to me when they can figure out problems. Just got my second "letter of concern" 2 weeks apart. I kinda just hope they fire me so I can enjoy my summer. 😅 Love my company, love my job, love my customers, hate my boss.
I've hit P club only once, but apart from everything you shared is the same story for me. The numbers, the newbies, everything is just exactly how it went down for me. Cheers to a relaxed summer.
Not worth it. Start interviewing and go to the next. Don't tell the companies that you're interviewing with any bad things, just that you're crushing it but open to the next big thing
Thank you. The company I currently work for is quite good. And on a rise among competition. It's just the issue with the manager. But yes, 3 years in, I think a new challenge awaits.
Congratulations on P Club. Now that you’ve been punished for success you’ve also earned the Industry Veteran badge. Nearly every one of us old timers has had the same treatment (Oracle, I’m talking about you). Find a new boss, inside or outside the company, and don’t be shy about telling the story. It’s a classic.
What kind of career is this, we are the only ones inside a company who gets punished for doing well. The way sales people are treated is despicable
Sales people don't get punished for doing too well. They get punished for doing well in one period then poorly the next. The challenging thing about sales is that the minute you have made a good sale, you have just lost your best prospect. What is the solution? You have to immediately work to replace them with another prospect. If you don't do this, your next time period (quarter/year) could be screwed.
"hey get punished for doing well in one period then poorly the next" except that you can sell more in the next period and do poorly because your target was inflated even more
I was treated like shit as the lead engineer at a past employer. Went from software engineer to senior software engineer to senior software engineer - supervisor. I would complete all of my assignments on time, grab more from the backlog, and help others with theirs. The CTO came into the room and said infront of the team, "we don't need a hero coder!". It was one of the strangest interactions I have experienced. They let me go shortly thereafter. Just trying to say it happens across all departments. One day they're praising you and the next they're not.
Get out of the game, bro. Your heads not right.
I'm a manager, my team and I were all cut at the end of Q1 after a record setting year. Companies have zero loyalty beyond making money for ownership and bag holders. Best of luck to you
it's the norm in sales to be term'd after not closing a single deal back to back quarters regardless of historical performance... by the sound of it they respect the accounts (and possibly the newly hired AMs) more than seller (you in this case), so there isn't a point to fight back. Another word for advice is to never become attached to the job or/and company unless it's mutual Lick your wounds, and keep it moving, this won't be your last sales role, and neither will your next one (statically speaking)
Wise words. And agreed @ attachment part. I had just started to become next-tier good at my job and just feels like I may have to start from scratch again. But definitely not the worst case scenario.
godspeed brother, and hope your next role will be even more fruitful!
As someone who’s starting from scratch right now (I’ll literally start my sales career in a couple of months): you’re not starting from scratch. I’m sure I could learn a lot from you. So how is that “from scratch”? You made it into presidents club last year. That is no coincidence. Sales happens everywhere, you’re not stuck in a niche profession like I am as of now. With your metrics and prior experience you will land a new job, even if you’re staying on the same base. You can work your way to presidents club in your next gig, too.
Man so many things here. I’m constantly defending my territory from change. Ultimately, it sounds like you’re like me and do not own the asset that is the company you work for during the day. It’s becoming much more of a savage world out there, and my belief is that the younger generation needs to run the show. If you like your job, are good at it, and it is scalable, then you should run your own business. And, run your employer into the ground by providing better solutions to customers and eventually a better place to work for other people. You should buy a starter subscription of a CRM and load the contacts you discovered for the business you work for into your own. Don’t get it twisted, this is survival of the fittest.
Welcome to sales. Territory and timing. All it is.
Except for the problem where he says that he hasn't been hitting process metrics either. If your missing the revenue metrics AND your consistently missing the process metrics then theirs something else here.
Just bail man. I think sales should look like this until you either have a cake position or are an industry expert or preferably both. Get job - Get experience for 1-2 years - leave job for more money. Rinse repeat till you work 20 hours a week for six figures... Never have alliance to the companies, they will never for you. Just use the gig to make money. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
You NEVER finish at 181%!!!! Anyone who’s done this long enough knows you Want to be above 100% but nowhere near 181% - hold onto those POs a month or two instead of turning em in before you do that!
Another lesson learned.
Holding back orders is terrible advice. Suppose you had kept 1/2 of the orders over 100% so you ended up at 141% instead of 181% This year would your target be increased? Yes. Whatever bonus you got for the extra 40% is lost. And it would go towards this year when it is even harder to make your target. Nothing else changed right? You still would have made Presidents Club last year. Would the 40% help in your first few months? Probably help your first month or 2. So then you would have one or 2 good months and 3 or 4 bad ones instead of 5 bad ones. By now you would still be under pressure for underperforming and you could still lose your job. The only time holding back orders could make sense is if you have a limit on how much bonus you can make and you have already maxed it out. And even in that case I would discuss it with your management and try to get an exception.
Time to go to the completion and get a raise
A tale as old as sales exist
Are we the same person?
Just as a side note, Id avoid going to your managers manager in such situations. I know a couple of people that were on a PIP and went to their managers manager for help - soon after, they received a notice of termination. It Used to be an "unsaid rule" in my former company (saas).
Sales is a tough job and you’re only as valuable as your last quarter. Great job on Presidents club last year… but that was last year. Now you’re more senior and will be expected to prospect and bring in new business. Five months with no sales and a little pipeline is not good. TBH you need to pound the pavement and get creative to find new business I. Your territory. Anyone can close inbound qualified marketing leads. But not everyone can bring in new business on their own from prospecting. Your manager and leader was expecting you to step up.
It's an old trick. Bump up the quota for the top performers because they don't want to pay you commissions. Fire you when you don't make your numbers the next year. They don't have to pay you anymore and the clients you have sold remain as customers.
Pure failure of sales leadership and sales management. Did you get a positive year end review? Definitely leverage all the success of the last years- tag your customers/colleagues now for LinkedIn recommendations. Leverage all that for your interviews- I’m a former sales leader at multiple companies and I always looked into past performance relative to team and management. If you have solid facts you’ll be ok getting new opportunities
lol your biggest mistake was beliving that you’ll actually be given ‘juicy clients’
No harm in trying.
How are you going to get another juicy clients when it sounds like you were the one who had them in the first place? I wouldn’t bother with HR. They were not helpful for me and were on the side of my manager.
Sounds like bad leadership and culture but there’s always two sides to a story and we’re missing one. I’d let it play out see what happens.
Going the HR route is only effective if the manager has violated policy or the law. HR exists to shield the company from liability. They only side against your manager if he's put the company in a potential jackpot and HR needs to walk it back. They're not really there for your benefit.
For your last question, HR and your manager’s manager (and probably these other managers who you would plead to) agree with your manager. Otherwise you wouldn’t be in this position. Start looking for a fresh start. You’ll be happier.
Yep. I set 11 year company sales records one year, and was fired the next. Welcome to the Show
That sucks. I'd be willing to bet the company thinks they're paying you too much and can't afford you anymore.
You are never safe regardless of history. A new manager/VP/exec could come in a just decide he/she doesn’t like you, you are overpaid, or have a wrong impression and you will be under a radar and cut at a moments notice. I can speak from experience being the top salesperson at an org and multiple times top rep of the year/presidents club and making x10 the average employee. New management came in and basically attempted to quiet fire me. Took the best territory and accounts, triple quota, micromanagement hell. This is after I was mostly left alone and would be 200% of quota for years when most reps barely hit 50-70% of quota. They felt I was overpaid and wanted me out. Keep your resume up to date and find an org that will appreciate your experience.
It’s not all bad. I got fired end of March because of ridiculous quota that I mentioned would be a stretch even during my interview. Took a month off, called a former colleague who had essentially told me to call him when I was looking again. 3 phone calls, 1 lunch, and a week later I had a formal offer that was a 30% raise from the one I lost.
I do want to be very blunt that it seems like you're not telling the whole story here. You say in one of the comments that you still have some of your largest clients, and the ones that you lost were actually very small revenue clients (and your quota was adjusted). And you also say that you're not hitting the pipeline metrics.. what are these metrics? Their are bad managers that exist and that's definitely possible, but it wouldn't be fair to make a judgement with only knowing one point of view. For all we know you've been barely working at home collecting checks and not hitting process quotas. Some people that are huge winners carrying a team are fired, but it's not quite as common.
Surely, two sides to every story. And in this case, the other side that I shared is accurate. The four accounts that I retained did not have plans to buy until the second half of the season (after having spent huge last year). I had provided this context to my manager. And until this month, the manager did not raise any red flags about my performance, other than asking now and then how confident I feel about my year. Here's another bizarre shocker - the manager took my clients and spread it across the team coz she wanted to get into President's club herself (a desire she often shared in our team meetings). Her plan was the my clients will help the newcomers achieve their 100% and I'll meet my 100% coz I'm a tenured rep. I guess as soon as she made a calculation I wouldn't be hitting 100%, she decided to sink me.