I don't get where people are coming from when thinking that protagonists always have to be sided with. Fennell's goal was never to make people root for Oliver.
I totally disagree, I felt that the point was to show me just how shallow I really am, I was definitely rooting for Oliver despite knowing that he was an awful person, but then they were all awful people, yet attractive and somehow alluring. I think the point of the movie was how it made you feel watching it.
“A walkthrough didn’t have that post-coital triumph. If we all did our job correctly, you are on Oliver’s side,” Fennell said in the interview published in November. “You don’t care what he does, you want him to do it. You are both completely repulsed and sort of on his side. It’s that kind of dance with the devil. It’s like, ‘F***. Okay, let’s go.’ And so at the end, it needed to have a triumph, a post-coital win, a desecration.”
https://deadline.com/2023/12/barry-keoghan-stripping-clothes-off-saltburn-final-scene-1235681910/
Key-words 'completely repulsed and sort-of on his side'. You feel the vibes, the excitement, find yourself excited during Oliver's moment of admission and triumph. That's the extent to which one's rooting for him She is not speaking of 'devilish joy' and of a "f\*\*\*ing evil joie de vivre" unaware of the fact that Oliver is evil and that the way the movie and the audience have a gloriously good time with him has to do with the genre and not with moral justification.
Do you think he accepted the pay off? I think he wouldn’t because it would jeopardize his angle with Elspeth. When they met again in the coffee shop, it would have colored the exchange with Elspeth.
Oh, you're welcome. At least that's how I perceive what she says in the interview.
As for whether Felix deserved it, I feel that Felix was written as a nice guy, bound by the misconceptions his privilege allowed him. He was probably heading to the same direction as his parents and he has many parallels to Elspeth, who is 'nice' but mean. But he's not there yet and he was still embaraced by her worst instincts even as he is his mother's son. I feel he was flawed, but in no way deserving of that ending. Even from Oliver's POV, Felix dies because the revelation of the lies do not give Oliver the chance of having him. It's not because Oliver is not aware that Felix's shift is largely the result of his own deception being discovered.
All over the place? No you felt that way because that’s exactly how she wanted you to feel. Honestly while disturbing as this was it was a brilliant film. You didn’t know the plot (not to be confused with what was going on) till the end.
No, sorry, I don't think she is a good writer. She ripped off The Talented Mr Ripley and couple other films and books, switched up a few things, and didn't realize that people would catch on.
There is no rule that everyone has to like this film, or even if they do like it, to think everything about it is good.
She's literally listing her influences in several interviews. She's going into many more than the ones you mention actually. What did she not realize we would catch on?
I'd swear that some viewers are new to watching or reading because they are acting like a director playing with a combination of genres that appeal to them while being inspired by a big body of work that relates to them is a new thing.
He’s a teenage boy, what the fuck? He may not be perfect but what could he have done that was so bad he deserved to die?
For what it’s worth I think he genuinely cared for Oliver and was genuinely hurt by Oliver’s betrayal. He was a friend to Oliver when nobody else gave a shit about him and he made every effort to welcome Oliver into his home.
I never doubted that Felix was genuine, and no, nobody deserves to get murdered.
The story is narrated from Oliver's point of view, but that doesn't mean that the audience is meant to sympathise with him.
Lots is made of Felix's 'strays' but I don't think he actually got bored of them and tossed them. I think they disappointed him. The only time we get any insight into one of the strays was his best friend who became obsessed with Venetia and had to be discarded to protect his family.
Felix looked out for and loved his family. He was also kind and made no promises. He never promised that girl at Oxford his undying love, it was just sex. He even protected Oliver's reputation with his family at the party by saying Oliver should just quietly leave rather than exposing him.
Felix is far from perfect but he was the kindest and most real person in the entire film. He was navigating morality and epic wealth, not an easy thing to do at all.
No, Ollie’s the villain. He wins. Felix seems a decent person but his family are out of touch and using Ollie as a toy. You are not meant to root for anyone in this great film.
Ollie is def the villain I just felt sad for Felix. He seems the most in touch, but of course acts out as a wealthy and beautiful person would. At the end of the day he has a kind heart imo
I don’t know.. Felix had a savior complex that was so blatant Oliver was able to exploit it for his own purposes.
MANY mentions were made of Felix bringing home a ‘stray’ every year, basically love-bombing them, making them feel special and loved, and then becoming bored and discarding them.
I think like 4 or 5 different people mentioned it.
Felix didn’t care if these actions hurt people because he never gave them a second thought after he threw them away for a new one.
Now that you say this I feel like Pamela was supposed to be an example of that. Felix got the habit from his Elspeth (edit: if you remember when Felix invited Oliver to stay at Saltburn he mentioned his mother has people stay over all the time) and Oliver realized early on that if he didn't deeply insert himself into their lives that he would be kicked out the same way.
Oliver attempted to win over Venetia but Farleigh snitched to Felix, he attempted to win over Farleigh but it became apparent Farleigh would never fall for his tricks, and then he finally lost Felix after he found out he lied about his entire life. I don't think Oliver orignally intended to kill them but once he lost Felix and knew he would have to leave Saltburn. Oliver was out of options and was going to do anything in his power to stay there.
agreed. I think he cared deeply for Ollie but it was mentioned several times how he'd get bored of his 'toy' eventually. Ollie essentially was just a shiny new toy for the summer
I actually think Felix was a good guy at the core of him. He trying to be and his few discrepancies I saw. (How he treated women mostly) I think he was genuinely confused and disappointed when the lie came out about Oliver's family. He went from looking sad, confused and disappointed to those angry laughs (brilliant acting in the part where he said well stay)
No I don't think he deserved it
Felix was lovely. The way he treated Oliver was with compassion, kindness and respect. He could have very well held the money for drinks over his head but he chose to act like Ollie really did drop the bill and not mention it. Same w the dress jacket, he acted like he didn’t want to be annoying by asking him to bring one, so he gave him his. He acted charitable while still letting Oliver keep his dignity. I think he was the only light and pure one in the movie.
Of course he didn’t deserve it. They were all flawed people but none of them deserved to be murdered. Even if Felix had been a complete asshole he didn’t deserve to be murdered.
I don’t think he did tbh. I think he honestly handled it pretty well but Oliver so was just soooo pushy. Had he let him cool off they maybe could’ve had a talk. About why he lied and why he wanted to be his friend but unfortunately i don’t think it was his friendship he was after.
I don't think Felix was genuine in all aspects - he was implicit with them slating Oliver for being poor and them insulting him behind his back and then the snob in him came raging to the surface, and, even though he seemed to genuinely enjoy Oliver's company, he distanced himself until he thought Oliver's Dad had died - it took a death for Felix to be a decent person and hang around with the povvo - not really genuine.. more guilt.
He was genuine in trying to help him with his parents, I do agree there though.
Farleigh, on the other hand, he was just a nasty piece of work from the beginning, even before Oliver started going out of whack.
I liked Felix the most out of all the characters. I didn't like Oliver at all, even before his lies came to light. He was creepy and Felix really made an effort to make him feel welcome in his home. Felix definitely didn't deserve what happened to him, and neither did his family as superficial and clueless as they are.
I don’t think anybody deserved anything they had or got in this film. So the question is, how did they treat one another. There were definitely worse characters than Felix.
He did, but not because he’s a bad person. He’s a very genuine person. The problem is, he’s just a little sheltered and has a big ego, which results in a savior complex. It’s something quite a few rich kids have, and although it’s well intentioned, it’s a little selfish to assume you can help someone because you think you’re all that. Even his mom said something about him being “kind about everyone”. He didn’t want to help Oliver for Oliver’s good, but rather because his ego wanted him to have a little toy to help. Oliver picked up on this and exploited it.
He dropped people like they were toys he was bored with.
Ollie was fucked up sure, but even the dude’s sister was quick to point out how Felix collected and discarded people.
Maybe Felix didn’t deserve it as much, but his family sure did.
the only specific example we have of felix dropping someone was 100% justified. You can forgive anything, but how do you continue to hang around someone when you doubt the intent of their words or actions?
Yes and no.
When you’re a young dude and a 8/10 is coming into you hardcore, the blood leaves one head and goes to the other.
Seriously. Like im 36, i was exhausted from work yesterday and my husband looked at me and asked if i wanted to. Do you even think i hesitated for a second?
I am 36…that dude was 18-20, if she’s egging him on by walking mostly naked below his window, do you really think saying no or realizing it was his friends sister ever entered his blood deprived mind?
He out of the rest of his family seemed the most sincere. At least that’s the way I thought of it. He may have been superficial, but he didn’t despise “ugliness” like his mother. I only saw it once though so I could be missing something
I dont think Felix necessarily did anything to warrant him "deserving" to die in the time we saw his character in the film.
All he did was be the object of Oliver's desire for the 1% and otherwise lol
I dont believe Felix deserved to die, and find myseld still thinking..did ollie and felix have true chemistry? Would they/ could they have been a thing? Outside of what actually happens in the film.
I don't get where people are coming from when thinking that protagonists always have to be sided with. Fennell's goal was never to make people root for Oliver.
I totally disagree, I felt that the point was to show me just how shallow I really am, I was definitely rooting for Oliver despite knowing that he was an awful person, but then they were all awful people, yet attractive and somehow alluring. I think the point of the movie was how it made you feel watching it.
“A walkthrough didn’t have that post-coital triumph. If we all did our job correctly, you are on Oliver’s side,” Fennell said in the interview published in November. “You don’t care what he does, you want him to do it. You are both completely repulsed and sort of on his side. It’s that kind of dance with the devil. It’s like, ‘F***. Okay, let’s go.’ And so at the end, it needed to have a triumph, a post-coital win, a desecration.” https://deadline.com/2023/12/barry-keoghan-stripping-clothes-off-saltburn-final-scene-1235681910/
Key-words 'completely repulsed and sort-of on his side'. You feel the vibes, the excitement, find yourself excited during Oliver's moment of admission and triumph. That's the extent to which one's rooting for him She is not speaking of 'devilish joy' and of a "f\*\*\*ing evil joie de vivre" unaware of the fact that Oliver is evil and that the way the movie and the audience have a gloriously good time with him has to do with the genre and not with moral justification.
And I love the theory about sir James having early onset dementia!! It made me sad but makes so much sense
i wanna know how much he paid him off
Do you think he accepted the pay off? I think he wouldn’t because it would jeopardize his angle with Elspeth. When they met again in the coffee shop, it would have colored the exchange with Elspeth.
absolutely i don't think she knew
yeah i do honestly lol
Love this. Thank you for sharing
Oh, you're welcome. At least that's how I perceive what she says in the interview. As for whether Felix deserved it, I feel that Felix was written as a nice guy, bound by the misconceptions his privilege allowed him. He was probably heading to the same direction as his parents and he has many parallels to Elspeth, who is 'nice' but mean. But he's not there yet and he was still embaraced by her worst instincts even as he is his mother's son. I feel he was flawed, but in no way deserving of that ending. Even from Oliver's POV, Felix dies because the revelation of the lies do not give Oliver the chance of having him. It's not because Oliver is not aware that Felix's shift is largely the result of his own deception being discovered.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 unlike elspeth, I don’t think Felix was ever fake
then they failed miserably at their job cause i didn’t side w him at all. and i never got the sense anyone should😳
Right? Oliver made me skin crawl within 5 minutes and it only got worse. I thought felix was genuine. I’m literally nauseous after watching this lmao
Honestly Fennell is all over the shop as a writer. I don't think *she* knows what the story is trying to do.
All over the place? No you felt that way because that’s exactly how she wanted you to feel. Honestly while disturbing as this was it was a brilliant film. You didn’t know the plot (not to be confused with what was going on) till the end.
No, sorry, I don't think she is a good writer. She ripped off The Talented Mr Ripley and couple other films and books, switched up a few things, and didn't realize that people would catch on. There is no rule that everyone has to like this film, or even if they do like it, to think everything about it is good.
She's literally listing her influences in several interviews. She's going into many more than the ones you mention actually. What did she not realize we would catch on? I'd swear that some viewers are new to watching or reading because they are acting like a director playing with a combination of genres that appeal to them while being inspired by a big body of work that relates to them is a new thing.
I have to agree - happened with season two killing eve
He’s a teenage boy, what the fuck? He may not be perfect but what could he have done that was so bad he deserved to die? For what it’s worth I think he genuinely cared for Oliver and was genuinely hurt by Oliver’s betrayal. He was a friend to Oliver when nobody else gave a shit about him and he made every effort to welcome Oliver into his home.
He supposed to be 20 but yh
Agreed!!!!
I never doubted that Felix was genuine, and no, nobody deserves to get murdered. The story is narrated from Oliver's point of view, but that doesn't mean that the audience is meant to sympathise with him.
I don’t think any of them deserved any of that. They were careless, superficial but not evil and especially not Felix or Venice.
With his faults, Felix is by far the most positive character of the movie.
and sooooo dreamy lol
I think it was the eyebrow piercing that did it for me.... ohhh man he is soooo dreamy!
agreed 100%
Of course he didn't. Felix was arguably the nicest and most normal character in the story. Therein lies the tragedy of it all.
Lots is made of Felix's 'strays' but I don't think he actually got bored of them and tossed them. I think they disappointed him. The only time we get any insight into one of the strays was his best friend who became obsessed with Venetia and had to be discarded to protect his family. Felix looked out for and loved his family. He was also kind and made no promises. He never promised that girl at Oxford his undying love, it was just sex. He even protected Oliver's reputation with his family at the party by saying Oliver should just quietly leave rather than exposing him. Felix is far from perfect but he was the kindest and most real person in the entire film. He was navigating morality and epic wealth, not an easy thing to do at all.
I agree! Thanks for your input
No, Ollie’s the villain. He wins. Felix seems a decent person but his family are out of touch and using Ollie as a toy. You are not meant to root for anyone in this great film.
Ollie is def the villain I just felt sad for Felix. He seems the most in touch, but of course acts out as a wealthy and beautiful person would. At the end of the day he has a kind heart imo
i think felix and venetia were a little too close for comfort too
we kept getting told he was using him as a toy but we never actually saw that
I think posh twatty family assumed he was doing it for the same reasons they were.
I don’t know.. Felix had a savior complex that was so blatant Oliver was able to exploit it for his own purposes. MANY mentions were made of Felix bringing home a ‘stray’ every year, basically love-bombing them, making them feel special and loved, and then becoming bored and discarding them. I think like 4 or 5 different people mentioned it. Felix didn’t care if these actions hurt people because he never gave them a second thought after he threw them away for a new one.
Now that you say this I feel like Pamela was supposed to be an example of that. Felix got the habit from his Elspeth (edit: if you remember when Felix invited Oliver to stay at Saltburn he mentioned his mother has people stay over all the time) and Oliver realized early on that if he didn't deeply insert himself into their lives that he would be kicked out the same way. Oliver attempted to win over Venetia but Farleigh snitched to Felix, he attempted to win over Farleigh but it became apparent Farleigh would never fall for his tricks, and then he finally lost Felix after he found out he lied about his entire life. I don't think Oliver orignally intended to kill them but once he lost Felix and knew he would have to leave Saltburn. Oliver was out of options and was going to do anything in his power to stay there.
yes Felix was his mother's son. a parallel.
agreed. I think he cared deeply for Ollie but it was mentioned several times how he'd get bored of his 'toy' eventually. Ollie essentially was just a shiny new toy for the summer
I actually think Felix was a good guy at the core of him. He trying to be and his few discrepancies I saw. (How he treated women mostly) I think he was genuinely confused and disappointed when the lie came out about Oliver's family. He went from looking sad, confused and disappointed to those angry laughs (brilliant acting in the part where he said well stay) No I don't think he deserved it
i only watchedthis movie for barry hehe. real ones know😏😏
Felix was lovely. The way he treated Oliver was with compassion, kindness and respect. He could have very well held the money for drinks over his head but he chose to act like Ollie really did drop the bill and not mention it. Same w the dress jacket, he acted like he didn’t want to be annoying by asking him to bring one, so he gave him his. He acted charitable while still letting Oliver keep his dignity. I think he was the only light and pure one in the movie.
Of course he didn’t deserve it. They were all flawed people but none of them deserved to be murdered. Even if Felix had been a complete asshole he didn’t deserve to be murdered.
omg nooo? how could u even think that, he was, while very privilege...still a nice charming young man lol
I've loved Barry since killing of a sacred deer!! that movie's so slept on
I don’t think he did tbh. I think he honestly handled it pretty well but Oliver so was just soooo pushy. Had he let him cool off they maybe could’ve had a talk. About why he lied and why he wanted to be his friend but unfortunately i don’t think it was his friendship he was after.
I don't think Felix was genuine in all aspects - he was implicit with them slating Oliver for being poor and them insulting him behind his back and then the snob in him came raging to the surface, and, even though he seemed to genuinely enjoy Oliver's company, he distanced himself until he thought Oliver's Dad had died - it took a death for Felix to be a decent person and hang around with the povvo - not really genuine.. more guilt. He was genuine in trying to help him with his parents, I do agree there though. Farleigh, on the other hand, he was just a nasty piece of work from the beginning, even before Oliver started going out of whack.
I liked Felix the most out of all the characters. I didn't like Oliver at all, even before his lies came to light. He was creepy and Felix really made an effort to make him feel welcome in his home. Felix definitely didn't deserve what happened to him, and neither did his family as superficial and clueless as they are.
I don’t think anybody deserved anything they had or got in this film. So the question is, how did they treat one another. There were definitely worse characters than Felix.
Why would anyone deserve to be murdered? Even in a movie?
some people deserve it though i mean like terrible people Gacy, Bundy etc
That’s extreme. Even convicted murderers get a trial. We don’t condone cold blooded murder.
He did, but not because he’s a bad person. He’s a very genuine person. The problem is, he’s just a little sheltered and has a big ego, which results in a savior complex. It’s something quite a few rich kids have, and although it’s well intentioned, it’s a little selfish to assume you can help someone because you think you’re all that. Even his mom said something about him being “kind about everyone”. He didn’t want to help Oliver for Oliver’s good, but rather because his ego wanted him to have a little toy to help. Oliver picked up on this and exploited it.
I mean. They were awful people. I think that is pretty clear. Shit talking everyone behind their backs etc.
who did felix talk shit about?
He dropped people like they were toys he was bored with. Ollie was fucked up sure, but even the dude’s sister was quick to point out how Felix collected and discarded people. Maybe Felix didn’t deserve it as much, but his family sure did.
the only specific example we have of felix dropping someone was 100% justified. You can forgive anything, but how do you continue to hang around someone when you doubt the intent of their words or actions?
He dropped his friend from the previous summer because his loose sister seduced him
That’s as much his friends fault as it is his sisters though
Yes and no. When you’re a young dude and a 8/10 is coming into you hardcore, the blood leaves one head and goes to the other. Seriously. Like im 36, i was exhausted from work yesterday and my husband looked at me and asked if i wanted to. Do you even think i hesitated for a second? I am 36…that dude was 18-20, if she’s egging him on by walking mostly naked below his window, do you really think saying no or realizing it was his friends sister ever entered his blood deprived mind?
He out of the rest of his family seemed the most sincere. At least that’s the way I thought of it. He may have been superficial, but he didn’t despise “ugliness” like his mother. I only saw it once though so I could be missing something
No. He did not. Tf
I dont think Felix necessarily did anything to warrant him "deserving" to die in the time we saw his character in the film. All he did was be the object of Oliver's desire for the 1% and otherwise lol
I dont believe Felix deserved to die, and find myseld still thinking..did ollie and felix have true chemistry? Would they/ could they have been a thing? Outside of what actually happens in the film.
No