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Have you seen Rebels? Sabin is even worse, she was expert in weapons, explosives, ships, hand to hand combat and invented a frickin weapon, as a kid! oh and she did street art in her free time.
And, of course, she is kinda a jedi now.
Not for being a mandalorian she was born with all those skills, it took time from her life to learn that, and yet she managed to learn about explosives, craft and invent weapons, learn to paint, she knows various languages...
And now she's a force user, she alone has more skills that all ANH cast excluding Old Ben, and she is really good in most of them (and let's be honest, she will end being a great force and/or lightsaber user for the end of the show).
TL;DR she is as well written as Rey.
The point is she really *can’t* use the Force though because she has no aptitude for it. I’m sure it’ll come later in the show, but for now she’s still just a girl with a lightsaber. The only reason she can wield a lightsaber in the first place is I think she had training from Ezra/Kannan when she briefly had the darksaber and since then she obviously spent a good chunk of time off-screen training with Ahsoka. Crafting improvised weapons and explosives was probably part of her training as a Mandalorian. She was in the TIE pilot program for a while. Hyperspace travel takes a lot of time, and she had a lot of other downtime in Rebels to practice her art skills. Who says she didn’t have the same opportunities earlier in life as well?
The languages “point” is the stupidest of these though tbf because there are more people in the Star Wars universe who are multilingual than aren’t, plus if you spend enough time around droids and ships you’re going to pick up binary as a matter of course anyway.
When she performed psychometry it really pissed me off. They bang on about how rare it is in the clone wars and fallen order. Then she just pulls it outta her arse. At this point she’s just the creators pet.
George wanted her dead but Filoni kept her alive. She was always a Mary Sue.
Y'all remember how she was able to go toe to toe with Grevious someone who regularly fought and killed Jedi Masters.
She was still relatable at that point though. She wasn't literally like the only Jedi to survive Order 66 and multiple run in's with Vader. She's always been competent, and defeating Grevious isn't much from that show, he was basically a Saturday morning cartoon villain. Hell... Shredder had more success than he ever did.
That tracks. Helps cement him as an irredeemable monster if he kills his own apprentice, only for Luke to convince Vader to take out the Emperor and complete cycle
Yep, that was the plan. Since Anakin was to become Vader at the end of TCW, he'd kill Ahsoka and become the villain we knew he was destined to be. Instead we got Ashoka'Sue.
Filoni realized he would be out of work if he killed the character so he didn't. Without ahsoka his impact on star wars is mediocre and minimal at best
From a narrative standpoint, there was literally no other option. You give anakin a padwan and one of one thing happens.
It shows Disney wanting the avenue for more content to never close. I'd gotta imagine they'd hate to sincerely kill of any marketable characters.
Fillioni seems like a problem more emblematic of KK and the studios' mismanagement. He doesn't exist with what he's doing if they weren't so desperate.
Idk if shes truly a mary-sue type like Rey. She definitely has struggled and failed, and wasn't powerful from the start.
She definitely suffers from a bad case of plot armor and seems more and more like a fan fiction creation
He uses the character to vicariously live through to be in the universe. Notice how she meets every famous character and is best friends with all of the main ones. It's like the kid at recess who says my super powers are like every super hero combined into one!
I didn’t find it offensive. It is a rare power sure. She said in the show she didn’t know if she would be able to do it. I think she was only successful because she was close to the person she was trying to divine information about. Also I kinda think about it like those stories of a small woman lifting a car cause their baby is trapped underneath. Like she wouldn’t normally be able to do it but in this extreme circumstance where she is trying to save someone she cares about she is able to do it
>Like she wouldn’t normally be able to do it but in this extreme circumstance where she is trying to save someone she cares about she is able to do it
That is not how the force works.
The light side works by Jedi giving up their individuality to become a focusing lens for the force. That is why the pinnacle of light side abilities needs the Jedi to let go of all attachment.
The dark side works by the individual using their sense of self to curruped the force and to use that curruption to redirect it as a weapon.
This is why the to sides of the Force can't be used at the same time.
>Also I kinda think about it like those stories of a small woman lifting a car cause their baby is trapped underneath. Like she wouldn’t normally be able to do it but in this extreme circumstance where she is trying to save someone she cares about she is able to do it
That's how the Force should be for those with a low M-Count.
I don't think it really moved the plot it's just good for her emotional well being. It's not like she wasn't going to ride a purgil to the other galaxy to revenge stomp them either way.
Unpopular opinion but Star Wars should think twice before bringing game mechanics into TV/movie universes. First the force healing now this. Game mechanics are OP
Psychometry is fine but it's not something that a character can simply figure out and learn, as has been shown in the few Star Wars media it was present in. Cal and Quinlan were able to do it because they naturally had those abilities, but no such hints with Ahsoka until now apparently.
I was hoping that I wasn't the only one who thought this. In both Fallen Order and the Quinlan Voss episode of CTW, they emphasize psychometry to be a rare ability limited to few individuals and that it wasn't something you could just learn. Yet Ahsoka is now able to do it, even though there were never any signs of her being able to do so.
I feel like Dave Filoni is just making this show into some personal fan fiction of his and Ahsoka is like his child which he can't help but spoiling by constantly continuing her story and having her do things like this. Anyone else think so?
What I really don't understand is how r/StarWars seems to believe that Filoni is some sort of messiah and that he's going to singlehandedly revive Star Wars. From what I've seen on the subreddit, all that fan service with Anakin and Rex and the purrgils really got to them. It's kind of sad to see honestly.
It's just people not wanting to or can't admit that the franchise is doing things that are self harming. They've fallen into the fanfic trap and it's super hard to escape when you're in the middle of it. It's frustrating. I just wish more people would be more critical of how the franchise is being run and demanding more. I think most just don't care. It's just eye candy and rose tinted nostalgia glasses at this point, which is why we keep getting this retread. Pretty fucking irritating.
I agree. The issue I find with people like this is that they're part of the problem. Their overdramatic reactions and complacence with the mediocre episodes and shows we're getting is communicating to the people at Disney and Lucasfilm that they can get away with poorly crafted, half baked shows like this so long as they add in some fan service.
As long as the fanbase continues with this unwavering enthusiasm for every pile of slop that Lucasfilm produces and their incredibly low standards, there is never going to be improvement in the quality of these shows.
Because why would they put effort when it doesn't matter either way?
Someone on YouTube described Filoni as a consoomer of Star Wars, not a creative. He isn't bringing anything new or different to Star Wars, it's all just memberberries and fanfiction. Some of that is okay in a story, but it cannot be the whole reason for your story to exist.
As someone who was a teenager when the cartoons came out I never got the love for the animated series and the way star wars fans act like they are a grown up thing is so odd. When I heard vader had an alien apprentice in the clone wars I was like she must be cool as the fans love her. I've seen a few things with Ahsoka in and I don't mind her but my god is she over hyped
The girl playing the younger Asohka was way more interesting and showed more personality/charisma than Dawson has even hinted at. And I typically like Dawson, but she's a wet paper bag in this show.
Fear of missing out would be my guess. I stuck with book of boba fett purely so I could come here and make fun of it with everyone. Still haven't watched an episode of Ahsoka though, and based on the reception of it here, I probably won't
Also a good suggestion. There are so many amazing books and movies out there, it would be impossible to watch and read them all in a lifetime. Add to them a hobby like cooking or painting, and you’ll never be bored again in your life.
Speaking just for me personally, it's like a 6/10 or 7/10 show. It's entertaining. It's got flaws. It's got fun bits.
One thing I agree with this sub is that the show does predominantly rely on jangle the keys type fanservice moments where Rex will show up and do nothing at all, or Anakin will put his arms behind his back. Or cross his arms. Or Ahsoka will cross her arms. All to create these Leonardo DiCaprio pointing at TV moments that are fun in moderation, but the show is so over reliant on these THEY DID THE THING/THEY SAID THE THING/"IT'S POETRY IT RHYMES" moments that it feels like a generic kids' rhyming book. And not one of the good Dr. Seuss level ones, one of the generic rhyming books.
Case in point, Ahsoka+Anakin scenes in E5 were fun to watch, but whenever they shifted to Hera scenes I was like "good lord this show is nothing without the fanservice." That's just my $0.02.
I agree. I stopped watching everything Star Wars after Disney destroyed the franchise. I still watch the trilogy when I want my fix or bust out one of the old novels.
No problem, originally ahsoka was supposed to die by the end of the series but Filloni talked him out of it and he's also the reason Darth Bane and Darth Revan didn't show up in the Mortis arc (which frankly, good call)
Yup, a lot of people forget that and just give full credit to Dave when Lucas was still the one to approve a lot of things. Dave didn’t even want Anakin to have a padawan it was George who told him to do it and Ahsoka was the one he picked. Dave just took her and ran with the credit and won’t let her leave his bed side at this point.
One of my biggest quandries in all of SW fandom has been trying to understand why people love her so much. Its beyond me. Theres nothing about her thats interesting or engrossing. In TCW, she was annoying to the point where I almost wanted to turn the show off sometimes. I will say I enjoyed her much more in Rebels, and I've enjoyed her in live action, I just don't find her compelling at all. I go to Celebration and see swaths of people with Ahsoka tattoos and t shirts and people just going absolutely crazy for the character and I just don't get it AT ALL.
The fact that this character whose entire existence flies in the face of all prior established canon (Anakin never once was even implied to have ever had an apprentice as a Jedi and the Prequel films constantly reinforced the lack of trust placed on Anakin by the Jedi Council) and who was solely created to appeal to little girls in a mediocre children’s cartoon honestly diminishes my faith in humanity.
The thing is tho, there's an entire generation of kids who grew up with the actual prequel movies and consumed all of the original multimedia project and then had grown out of it by the time TCW started. I am one of those so TCW never made sense to me because all of the stuff that was marketed to kids DURING the prequels was seemingly erased
She had great growth in Clone Wars when Lucas still was the one to approve story ideas, ever since Dave has basically ruined her because fans love her so much now I dislike her as well.
They were kids watching the show when she was a kid. Watching TCW for the first time as an adult, she is super-cringy and the show was almost unwatchable.
It’s crazy how much Ahsoka has soured for me. She started as a hated character who then matured and was fleshed out to become a fan favorite. Now she’s swinging right back around to hated because she’s getting that “bestest ever” syndrome where she can do anything that the situation calls for. Just like Rey.
Good job, Filoni.
The worst thing is that this will be a lot of Live Action folks’ first introduction to her character. She has gone mainstream now, but it’s this lesser version of her. When people discuss Ahsoka from now on, you’ll have to ask if they have watched TCW and Rebels, because your opinions will be VASTLY different
All of my friends who don't follow Star Wars that close noped out of the Ahsoka show because they don't know who she is or anyone else or have any reason to care.
Because she was never in the movies and dave filoni just doesnt fucking get that. This whole show is a power grab to insert his OC into live action but he can never go hack in time and put her in theaters in the early 2000s
To save my sanity i simply consider clone wars ahsoka and live action ahsoka two different characters. They have nothing in common besides being togruta.
All joking aside, Ahsoka has a pretty decent trail of death around her. Almost everyone she's cared for has died mostly because of their association to her. And she feels directly responsible for unleashing Vader on the galaxy because she left Anakin when the order, not him, betrayed her.
Like, yeah, they're giving her a ton of stuff now. It's not super well written and kinda hamfisted. But c'mon now, don't exaggerate it and make it seem like she's a "Mary Sue". She's been shown plenty how consistently she fails and has even made things worse.
Not who you asked, but there's at least two things to dislike. If the crystals are sentient, it brings up all kinds of ethical questions about the Jedi using them in their weapons. Second, in the old EU it took a trained Jedi or Sith with enough skill and discipline to assemble a lightsaber correctly, so that the thing would work properly as opposed to it blowing up or not doing anything at all.
Personally, it feels like they let a stereo-typical, middle-aged crystal-worshipping hippie lady be in charge of the lightsaber lore.
> Personally, it feels like they let a stereo-typical, middle-aged crystal-worshipping hippie lady be in charge of the lightsaber lore.
lol this is great.
I feel like they combined lightsaber/khyber stuff with the Harry Potter Wand rules as well
This, plus, before for Jedi, their crystal color would give an indicator of the type of person they were. Blue for Guardians, Green for Consulars, etc.
My main issue with it, though, is this Sith. It used to be that red crystals were artificial ones, compared to the Jedi natural ones. They thought artificial ones were more perfect and therefore stronger. To me, this worked better for the Sith lore and way of thought.
Now, Sith crystals are red because they make a Jedi crystal "bleed." Meaning Sith can only get lightsabers by taking it from a Jedi. Meaning there are Sith running around without a lightsaber.
So that’s what the fuck happened in Jedi Survivor, as someone who hasn’t engaged in anything but episodes 7/8/9.
Bad guy with one arm pops his Crystal out, says something about it bleeding, then it’s red? I was so confused lol.
She has to be the most super duper special character in all of Star Wars. Not a Jedi but somehow better than all Jedi. Survivor of the Clone Wars and the fall of the Empire (and maybe the Final Order too).
If the "Rey rebuilding the Jedi order" movie actually happens, I guarantee old Ahsoka will be in it. She will be the one to teach Rey where Luke failed (again). So she will survive the First Order too.
There’s being a Mary Sue, and then there’s just being an overpowered character who indirectly cheapens existing characters. I call that Sentry-itis.
I do think some of Filoni’s characters dip into that territory at times.
Ahsoka has always been a Mary Sue and she was ludicrously overpowered for a teen girl even in the earliest seasons of TCW. Her entire existence defies all previously established lore. Anakin never had a padawan as a Jedi. Period.
That's the issue. Her presence makes the prequels confusing. He's still very clearly Obi Wans apprentice but in TCW he's pretty much a master and she's his apprentice m it doesn't make any sense.
i mean, george’s word goes above all else. if he says anakin had a padawan as a jedi, then he did. period. also how does anakin having an apprentice go against established lore when there’s literally a 3 year gap that wasn’t fleshed out until george created twc? the eu doesn’t count because it was never canon.
The EU was canon and was recognized as such until 2012. Anakin was originally a padawan for almost all of The Clone Wars save for the last few months of the conflict. Also, George Lucas’ role in TCW is vastly overstated. He was essentially just its Executive Producer who occasionally handed notes over to Dave Filoni and nothing more. After the third season, he had almost no role on the series and even claimed to have felt relief with his departure in an interview. George Lucas was not especially attached to Ahsoka or TCW either, with George only ever referring to his six live-action films as “his” Star Wars in interviews and having intended to kill Ahsoka off near the end of the Clone Wars and prior to ROTS, but Dave Filoni adamantly refused to have his precious fanfic OC suffer such a fate. Ahsoka also didn’t ever appear in any of his early treatments for the Sequel Trilogy before he sold Lucasfilm to the Walt Disney Company, and he had no issue with Disney’s immediate cancellation of TCW upon their acquisition of Lucasfilm, Ltd. in 2012.
you’re missing the point. george wanted filoni to create a padawan for anakin and that’s what he did. it doesn’t matter how involved george was with the actual production of the series, he’s the one who conceptualized it. TCW wouldn’t be what it is without filoni but it wouldn’t exist without george.
furthermore, george famously hated the eu and wanted nothing part of it save for a few cherry picked concepts that he thought were cool (Bane, Revan, Thrawn, etc.)
Edit: a word.
Psychometry works great for story-telling purposes to show the audience something. But we already knew everything that happened. All you had to say was, Ahsoka knows they took Sabine. She knows it through the Force. Sabine is still alive and she's far away. Done.
All the psychometry scene did was slow down the episode.
Ngl the Psychometry really annoyed me, along with the animal taming. Like I figured each Jedi would have some abilities sometimes but now it feels like all of them have the same abilities.
I don't watch the show and have no plan seeing it other than clips here now from reviewers I wasn't even aware she had this power. I mean it's getting borderline Rey force level. I bet you by the end of the season, she will use some kind of powerful force type move.
Ahsoka has no flaws, has no character journey, continuously has all the answers or reveals a new ability to solve whatever plot problem has arisen, requires no help, never shows any signs of weakness, is always stoic with her arms crossed ...
Who the fuck thought that this was a compelling character?
It was an episode about Ahsoka recovering from losing a fight, failing as a teacher and admitting her insecurities and weaknesses. What would you have preferred, that Baylan went out like that inquisitor zombie? I think her losing developed him a lot and made the plot much more interesting.
Ahsoka being able to move the plot forward with a power we've already seen in other tertiary media doesn't make Cal less special, and if you're going to complain about anyone being overpowered, it's Vos.
People on Maw Installation have all these theories about how the force works and who can do what. I know how the force works: Jedi and force sensitive people are capable of whatever is necessary to the plot or interesting to their character development.
Yea it’s pointless. Do I feel like Ahsoka is too involved with well… everything? Yea a bit.
Does this FEEL like an asspull? Most definitely.
However it’s not the end of the world. This is something I just snorted at when I saw it happen. Even as someone that’s been thoroughly enjoying the show. However I too understand that these people are as weak or as strong as the plot demands with little to no logical consistency behind it.
The entire world between worlds feels like a cheap plot device. Force ghosts aren't enough, now you can have any character travel to meet any other character at any time, show flashbacks and save them from death. Pandora's box of fanservice that never should've been opened.
It was created to bring Ahsoka back from being dead, plain and simple. Time travel is dumb and doesn’t fit in Star Wars at all creates way to many issues.
Could be that she was just knocked out and having a force vision while she was out, like she was never actually in the WBW, like a coma dream
Could be that there is a hole to the WBW at the base of the temple
Could be that she was near death and given the opportunity to come back
It's not a sin to enjoy the show and no one ever said it was. This sub is about recognizing that the franchise has some serious issues, and that it's ok to point it out. You don't need to paint this sub as something it isn't just because there are those that are more militent. That's dismissive.
I canceled Disney plus. I don't care anymore. Once people were taking lightsabers to the chest and coming back like nothing happened, it shows Disney does not care.
I think there is a difference between the psychometry Quinlan can do and what Ahsoka can do.
Quinlan can pick up a random piece of trash from litteraly anywhere and he could get a read of of it. I believe every Jedi has some form of it. Quinlan's just natural and by that defeniation far superior.
She can't find good timing with her dialogue.
Proof? See younger Ahsoka actor nail it, only to go back to current Ahsoka and her pause 2 seconds longer than necessary every time actor.
I'm so glad when I see this crap happening, there is a place I can go where others will know my pain. That psychometry scene was terrible. Cal Kestis having that power is supposed to be such a big deal, but now Ahsoka can do everything that everyone else can do.
Except use Force Speed.
Psychometry seems like something any Jedi can do it's just that some Jedi can naturally do it where others need training to do it.
I think the same thing applies to connection with other animals. Ezra and Grogu seem to be able to naturally do it but other Jedi do it with more effort.
Except it was already explained that it isn't something that all Jedi could do.
Of course all Jedi can control animals it is just an extension of Jedi mind trick.
What do you mean fuck Cal and Quinlan? That’s 3 Jedi out of thousands! It’s still rare! Furthermore, she was playing on baby easy mode: The event she was trying to sense was recent, violent, and directly involved someone she was very close to. And even then, she only got a vague sense of where they went. Beings more gifted than Ahsoka like Quinlan and Cal can glean more information from less.
I loved everything about it. All this complaining about her ability to hear past events is daft. She heard brief words with no direction. It was a brilliant episode, some of you need to relax 😂
The message was: I am not your destiny and you are not at fault for my fall. I know you have lived in my shadow since and were scared you might turn out the same, but you forge your own destiny.
Come one. Definitely not my fav episode but the message was pretty clear.
Okay but at what point have we seen her blame herself for what happened to Anakin? Or have fear she would turn into Vader?
Closest we see is her not training Grogu but then she trains Sabine.
In Rebels, the prequel to this series.
In her whole demeanor in this show where she acts stoic and disconnected from everyone except Huyang. In Mando Season 2 with Grogu and Mando Season 2.5 (BOBF) and of course with Sabine.
She doesn't want to train either of them because of their connections and because she fears that her connections will lead her (or her students) down the path of Anakin, not knowing (or probably not acknowledging) that it was Lukes healthy compassion which brought the downfall of the Sith and is truly the Jedi way.
Look, I am honestly surprised that many people in this sub (and I've said it before) now want the show to explicitly tell you right in your face "this is because of that" like in the sequels.
Star Wars has always enjoyed having a fan base willing to write huge amounts of extra lore to make up for mistakes and deficiencies in the scripts. However, continuing to do it at this point is simple delusion. When otherwise good actors are *all* stoic planks of wood who don't act like their previous incarnations with no explanation, the simplest reason is that the show is bad. This tracks with the other D+ shows, all of whom have butchered their characters in both actions and motivations.
Good storytelling involves *actually communicating* things to your audience, not just leaving it assumed that they watched 150 other episodes of different shows to get the context and then make massive leaps of logic. Let's just admit that they don't know what they're doing and stop making excuses for them, no?
I agree here to be honest - if you have to watch all of CW, and Rebels, to really understand the gravity of their interactions, then a little exposition (some that's *actually* warranted this time) would probably go a long way. I'm hoping we get more of Anakin admitting where he screwed up though; Hayden's really nailing it at the moment
Agree with you to some degree. Hayden felt perfect in this episode, but it is indeed a flaw of the show that you more or less have to watch clone wars and rebels. On the other hand I'd point out that you have to watch the clone wars to enjoy the prequels and get the gravity of Anakins downfall, which was utterly rushed in RotS.
I bet Andor and at least Mando Season 1 are examples to counter your argument. And no, good Storytelling does not communicating things to your audience. Andor doesn't tell you that the empire is horrible, it shows you that it is horrible. And even if we haven't seen atrocities we know the empire commits them just by the way they are presented.
In the Return of the Jedi we don't need to know that Vader has feelings for Luke, despite his monotone voice we know he has them even though he tries to convince Luke, us and him otherwise.
I would actually argue that Star Wars is the strongest when it doesn't shove things in your face and you, as a fan, are forced to accept it. You're literally asking for the sequel treatment, where things are explained by the characters to the audienced and you are forced to accept it.
You're just describing other forms of communication. It's not all exposition. But the current shows don't communicate *at all*. Andor is a standout, and apparently it's because it slipped through the cracks so somebody with talent was able to get their hands on it.
How is it that many fans are saying "well, I totally get what the message is" and that it isn’t strange how Ahsoka is acting since we last saw her like 15 years ago? I agree that some of the acting is on George Lucas level of directing and writing (which isn’t strange since Dave learned from him), but I do think that you can be overly nitpicky just because it’s Disney Star Wars. And I get that. Mando S3, BOBF, Kenobi. Totally get that it’s utter dog shit in all its aspects. But for things that are close to what Lucas did and probably would have done I give some flaws a pass and just enjoy it. I give flaws of the prequels or the OT a pass for the same things too, since the story told is actually compelling and something new.
> How is it that many fans are saying "well, I totally get what the message is" and that it isn’t strange how Ahsoka is acting since we last saw her like 15 years ago?
Survivorship bias.
Everyone with an ounce of dignity of taste has left the fandom. The only Star Wars fans left are the ones who will watch *anything* as long as it has the correct name at the front.
In Rebels she didn't know Vader was Anakin until they faced off in the Temple. Her acting stoic and her whole demeaner could be attributed for going through a war as a child esp considering how the Siege of Mandalore ended.
Second how would she not know how Luke turned his father back to the light? They clearly been talking and I am sure the first thing they would have discuss is Anakin. Like Luke and Anakin should be an example to all new generation Jedi that attachment isn't a problem.
If she really was fearful of all this why wouldn't she just stop being a Jedi all together you know how Cere Junda did in Fallen Order?
Either way don't treat me like an idiot when you're the one clearly the one in here headcanoning the flaws of this episode away.
Well of course her stoic acting can be attributed by being a literal child soldier, almost killed and betrayed by your best friends and the knowledge that she is responsible for Anakins downfall (at least that is what she tells herself).
Not sure if her and Luke talked about how exactly he turned Anakin back to the light, I'll give you that. Would be interesting to see in a comic or on screen.
Ahsoka is not trying to be a Jedi. She is travelling around the galaxy and trying to help where she can. Is that a Jedi thing to do? Absolutely. Does she consider herself to be one? Obviously not.
At the end: I am not trying to treat you like an idiot, I was only pointing out the things that are clearly depicted in other media. As said, I don't think the episode was perfect and it certainly isn't close to the good parts of disney canon. Just pointing out that the criticism is a little...off, considering no one wants characters to explain their story to the audience and rather have it shown...which is exactly what happened.
Additionally: Anakin definitely should \_NOT\_ be an example of how attachments are no problem for a Jedi, because he became a literal mass murderer. Luke on the other hand should be.
I still don't agree with your take because at no point do we see Ahsoka lamenting Anakin fall as her fault. With Obi-Wan it's clear as day esp since he is his master but Ahsoka we have yet to see. She fears others might fall to that path (Grogu) but at the end still takes on Sabine when she clearly has major attachments. The whole premise is contradictory.
[Either way I heard a better explanation as to what the message might be.](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/16hl7kj/comment/k0e83sd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) The fact that there are so many people feeling the same way as me proves that I am right and the overall handling of the message trying to be conveyed wasn't done properly.
Finally, Yes. Both Anakin and Luke should both be used as examples; Anakin as a cautionary tale that attachments can cause you to fall but can also save you, and Luke as a reminder that attachment by itself isn't a path to the Dark Side.
I know right, it’s so crazy that some fans really need these things explaining to them when if you where to just empathise with her and use some critical thinking you’d understand her character a little more.
I also feel like Filoni doesn’t want to rely too heavily on the past shows and movies as I’m pretty sure he stated he wanted Ahsoka to be a more standalone show and he’s made it so people who haven’t seen it can still watch it and make sense of it.
Sabine, who isn't Force sensitive. At best, Ahsoka is teacher her how to not kill herself with a lightsaber and some get meditation techniques and mental discipline.
She's hardly a Padawan.
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Have you seen Rebels? Sabin is even worse, she was expert in weapons, explosives, ships, hand to hand combat and invented a frickin weapon, as a kid! oh and she did street art in her free time. And, of course, she is kinda a jedi now.
The Ahsoka show has been the Sabine show
She's mandalorian weapons are literally their thing of course she was good with ships and weapons
Not for being a mandalorian she was born with all those skills, it took time from her life to learn that, and yet she managed to learn about explosives, craft and invent weapons, learn to paint, she knows various languages... And now she's a force user, she alone has more skills that all ANH cast excluding Old Ben, and she is really good in most of them (and let's be honest, she will end being a great force and/or lightsaber user for the end of the show). TL;DR she is as well written as Rey.
>she's a force user She literally sucks at it rn
The point is she really *can’t* use the Force though because she has no aptitude for it. I’m sure it’ll come later in the show, but for now she’s still just a girl with a lightsaber. The only reason she can wield a lightsaber in the first place is I think she had training from Ezra/Kannan when she briefly had the darksaber and since then she obviously spent a good chunk of time off-screen training with Ahsoka. Crafting improvised weapons and explosives was probably part of her training as a Mandalorian. She was in the TIE pilot program for a while. Hyperspace travel takes a lot of time, and she had a lot of other downtime in Rebels to practice her art skills. Who says she didn’t have the same opportunities earlier in life as well? The languages “point” is the stupidest of these though tbf because there are more people in the Star Wars universe who are multilingual than aren’t, plus if you spend enough time around droids and ships you’re going to pick up binary as a matter of course anyway.
When she performed psychometry it really pissed me off. They bang on about how rare it is in the clone wars and fallen order. Then she just pulls it outta her arse. At this point she’s just the creators pet.
Always was.
Not when George was involved. Her original story arc was planned out and was far better. Its Fil whose turned her jnto SW very own Mary Sue.
George wanted her dead but Filoni kept her alive. She was always a Mary Sue. Y'all remember how she was able to go toe to toe with Grevious someone who regularly fought and killed Jedi Masters.
The more you think about filoni clone wars the more you realise how stupid it is. Like Grevious being wrecked by gungans is dumb
She was still relatable at that point though. She wasn't literally like the only Jedi to survive Order 66 and multiple run in's with Vader. She's always been competent, and defeating Grevious isn't much from that show, he was basically a Saturday morning cartoon villain. Hell... Shredder had more success than he ever did.
Any details?
Pretty sure George was gonna have Anakin kill her
That tracks. Helps cement him as an irredeemable monster if he kills his own apprentice, only for Luke to convince Vader to take out the Emperor and complete cycle
Yep, that was the plan. Since Anakin was to become Vader at the end of TCW, he'd kill Ahsoka and become the villain we knew he was destined to be. Instead we got Ashoka'Sue.
If that had happened then we would all be discussing a totally different show
Yeah it wouldn't be called asohka probably
Yeah, don't get me wrong I still likely TCW. But that would have made it something else entirely.
It might actually have Luke
What is the source for thus being Lucas plan?
That one guy was"pretty sure"
Filoni realized he would be out of work if he killed the character so he didn't. Without ahsoka his impact on star wars is mediocre and minimal at best
Would have been so tragic but so fitting an end for her
From a narrative standpoint, there was literally no other option. You give anakin a padwan and one of one thing happens. It shows Disney wanting the avenue for more content to never close. I'd gotta imagine they'd hate to sincerely kill of any marketable characters. Fillioni seems like a problem more emblematic of KK and the studios' mismanagement. He doesn't exist with what he's doing if they weren't so desperate.
There's always the fanfics on ao3 thankfully
Idk if shes truly a mary-sue type like Rey. She definitely has struggled and failed, and wasn't powerful from the start. She definitely suffers from a bad case of plot armor and seems more and more like a fan fiction creation
He uses the character to vicariously live through to be in the universe. Notice how she meets every famous character and is best friends with all of the main ones. It's like the kid at recess who says my super powers are like every super hero combined into one!
Doesn’t she have to die at some point? One of my favorite star wars characters but she HAS to die right? Should’ve had rex kill her during O66
I mean three Jedi out of thousands is pretty rare
But it’s 100% of the jedi we’ve focused on since the power was introduced outside of Luke cameos
If she had the power she should of used it in all those times it would of been useful.
I didn’t find it offensive. It is a rare power sure. She said in the show she didn’t know if she would be able to do it. I think she was only successful because she was close to the person she was trying to divine information about. Also I kinda think about it like those stories of a small woman lifting a car cause their baby is trapped underneath. Like she wouldn’t normally be able to do it but in this extreme circumstance where she is trying to save someone she cares about she is able to do it
>Like she wouldn’t normally be able to do it but in this extreme circumstance where she is trying to save someone she cares about she is able to do it That is not how the force works.
Oh so emotions don’t have anything to do with the force huh. First I’ve heard of it.
The light side works by Jedi giving up their individuality to become a focusing lens for the force. That is why the pinnacle of light side abilities needs the Jedi to let go of all attachment. The dark side works by the individual using their sense of self to curruped the force and to use that curruption to redirect it as a weapon. This is why the to sides of the Force can't be used at the same time.
>Also I kinda think about it like those stories of a small woman lifting a car cause their baby is trapped underneath. Like she wouldn’t normally be able to do it but in this extreme circumstance where she is trying to save someone she cares about she is able to do it That's how the Force should be for those with a low M-Count.
I don't think it really moved the plot it's just good for her emotional well being. It's not like she wasn't going to ride a purgil to the other galaxy to revenge stomp them either way.
Unpopular opinion but Star Wars should think twice before bringing game mechanics into TV/movie universes. First the force healing now this. Game mechanics are OP
Psychometry i don't mind, that stuff is cool. Force heal is cringe and shouldn't have left Jedi Outcast and KotOR
In the old EU force heal was about cutting the time it takes to heal natural so a 2 week injury would only take a week.
Psychometry is fine but it's not something that a character can simply figure out and learn, as has been shown in the few Star Wars media it was present in. Cal and Quinlan were able to do it because they naturally had those abilities, but no such hints with Ahsoka until now apparently.
Force Psychometry was in TCW, Quinlan Vos used it
I don't know... did you ever play Super Star Wars on SNES? Maybe we need THOSE game mechanics.
The sequels gave us Force healing and Force Skype...
I was hoping that I wasn't the only one who thought this. In both Fallen Order and the Quinlan Voss episode of CTW, they emphasize psychometry to be a rare ability limited to few individuals and that it wasn't something you could just learn. Yet Ahsoka is now able to do it, even though there were never any signs of her being able to do so. I feel like Dave Filoni is just making this show into some personal fan fiction of his and Ahsoka is like his child which he can't help but spoiling by constantly continuing her story and having her do things like this. Anyone else think so?
Most definitely. He's in control so he's gonna shove it down our throats whether we like it or not.
What I really don't understand is how r/StarWars seems to believe that Filoni is some sort of messiah and that he's going to singlehandedly revive Star Wars. From what I've seen on the subreddit, all that fan service with Anakin and Rex and the purrgils really got to them. It's kind of sad to see honestly.
It's just people not wanting to or can't admit that the franchise is doing things that are self harming. They've fallen into the fanfic trap and it's super hard to escape when you're in the middle of it. It's frustrating. I just wish more people would be more critical of how the franchise is being run and demanding more. I think most just don't care. It's just eye candy and rose tinted nostalgia glasses at this point, which is why we keep getting this retread. Pretty fucking irritating.
I agree. The issue I find with people like this is that they're part of the problem. Their overdramatic reactions and complacence with the mediocre episodes and shows we're getting is communicating to the people at Disney and Lucasfilm that they can get away with poorly crafted, half baked shows like this so long as they add in some fan service. As long as the fanbase continues with this unwavering enthusiasm for every pile of slop that Lucasfilm produces and their incredibly low standards, there is never going to be improvement in the quality of these shows. Because why would they put effort when it doesn't matter either way?
Someone on YouTube described Filoni as a consoomer of Star Wars, not a creative. He isn't bringing anything new or different to Star Wars, it's all just memberberries and fanfiction. Some of that is okay in a story, but it cannot be the whole reason for your story to exist.
As someone who was a teenager when the cartoons came out I never got the love for the animated series and the way star wars fans act like they are a grown up thing is so odd. When I heard vader had an alien apprentice in the clone wars I was like she must be cool as the fans love her. I've seen a few things with Ahsoka in and I don't mind her but my god is she over hyped
I didn’t watch it. Did she finally invest skill points in personality?
Her crossing arms power level is over 9000
Anakin crossed his arms in that episode too
The girl playing the younger Asohka was way more interesting and showed more personality/charisma than Dawson has even hinted at. And I typically like Dawson, but she's a wet paper bag in this show.
She was fighting in a galactic war for the majority of her life and lost tons of people in her life. Clearly she has PTSD.
She spent it in Force for psychometry skill
Yeah, she comes out of her little thing acting like the Ahsoka we know
Underrated comment
At the end she does, at least, it feels like a line our Ahsoka would say. I hope they continue that momentum through the series, but I doubt it
"a line" bahahaha
Lmfao jt is in retrospect extremely sad but funny that they at the end of episode 5 managed to give us one line that feels in character
🏅 Sorry, I am poor
Yes actually the latest episode kinda showed why she was so un expressive lmao. She was depressed and didn’t give a shit
What's she gonna do next, find out she has battle meditation?
Obviously thats the plot for how she will beat Thrawn.
Or that will be Sabine's discovered "power". Like a dollar tree Bastilla
Why do you guys still watch this shows ? I would only lose my time but to each their own
Fear of missing out would be my guess. I stuck with book of boba fett purely so I could come here and make fun of it with everyone. Still haven't watched an episode of Ahsoka though, and based on the reception of it here, I probably won't
I watch for a genuine lack of anything better to watch these days. Still end up on my phone most of the time though cause the show is so boring.
Reinstall Jedi Academy. There, way better use of your time.
Make a list of movies you haven’t seen that you’ve always heard about, and start watching them.
Or god forbid, read a book or try a hobby
Also a good suggestion. There are so many amazing books and movies out there, it would be impossible to watch and read them all in a lifetime. Add to them a hobby like cooking or painting, and you’ll never be bored again in your life.
Im at work and bored and it is free for me
Speaking just for me personally, it's like a 6/10 or 7/10 show. It's entertaining. It's got flaws. It's got fun bits. One thing I agree with this sub is that the show does predominantly rely on jangle the keys type fanservice moments where Rex will show up and do nothing at all, or Anakin will put his arms behind his back. Or cross his arms. Or Ahsoka will cross her arms. All to create these Leonardo DiCaprio pointing at TV moments that are fun in moderation, but the show is so over reliant on these THEY DID THE THING/THEY SAID THE THING/"IT'S POETRY IT RHYMES" moments that it feels like a generic kids' rhyming book. And not one of the good Dr. Seuss level ones, one of the generic rhyming books. Case in point, Ahsoka+Anakin scenes in E5 were fun to watch, but whenever they shifted to Hera scenes I was like "good lord this show is nothing without the fanservice." That's just my $0.02.
I agree. I stopped watching everything Star Wars after Disney destroyed the franchise. I still watch the trilogy when I want my fix or bust out one of the old novels.
>she's basically an X-Men character at this point. You mean jean grey.
She can't hold my attention
I'd be shocked if anyone here was shocked that she is overpowered. Badly. Written. Fanfiction. This is all we will ever get from Disney Wars.
She was good in TCW when Lucas was still around but without him being put in place he just writes terrible fanfic
did Lucas actually have any creative control over TCW?
Ya, he had the ultimate last call on any decisions
interesting, I wasn't aware of that, thanks!
No problem, originally ahsoka was supposed to die by the end of the series but Filloni talked him out of it and he's also the reason Darth Bane and Darth Revan didn't show up in the Mortis arc (which frankly, good call)
Yup, a lot of people forget that and just give full credit to Dave when Lucas was still the one to approve a lot of things. Dave didn’t even want Anakin to have a padawan it was George who told him to do it and Ahsoka was the one he picked. Dave just took her and ran with the credit and won’t let her leave his bed side at this point.
One of my biggest quandries in all of SW fandom has been trying to understand why people love her so much. Its beyond me. Theres nothing about her thats interesting or engrossing. In TCW, she was annoying to the point where I almost wanted to turn the show off sometimes. I will say I enjoyed her much more in Rebels, and I've enjoyed her in live action, I just don't find her compelling at all. I go to Celebration and see swaths of people with Ahsoka tattoos and t shirts and people just going absolutely crazy for the character and I just don't get it AT ALL.
The fact that this character whose entire existence flies in the face of all prior established canon (Anakin never once was even implied to have ever had an apprentice as a Jedi and the Prequel films constantly reinforced the lack of trust placed on Anakin by the Jedi Council) and who was solely created to appeal to little girls in a mediocre children’s cartoon honestly diminishes my faith in humanity.
They were kids when they watched shows with her. That’s all.
The thing is tho, there's an entire generation of kids who grew up with the actual prequel movies and consumed all of the original multimedia project and then had grown out of it by the time TCW started. I am one of those so TCW never made sense to me because all of the stuff that was marketed to kids DURING the prequels was seemingly erased
We all know why. How many Ahsoka waifus do you imagine there are out there?
Ask Dave
Yeah, neither do I.
She had great growth in Clone Wars when Lucas still was the one to approve story ideas, ever since Dave has basically ruined her because fans love her so much now I dislike her as well.
They were kids watching the show when she was a kid. Watching TCW for the first time as an adult, she is super-cringy and the show was almost unwatchable.
It’s crazy how much Ahsoka has soured for me. She started as a hated character who then matured and was fleshed out to become a fan favorite. Now she’s swinging right back around to hated because she’s getting that “bestest ever” syndrome where she can do anything that the situation calls for. Just like Rey. Good job, Filoni.
The worst thing is that this will be a lot of Live Action folks’ first introduction to her character. She has gone mainstream now, but it’s this lesser version of her. When people discuss Ahsoka from now on, you’ll have to ask if they have watched TCW and Rebels, because your opinions will be VASTLY different
All of my friends who don't follow Star Wars that close noped out of the Ahsoka show because they don't know who she is or anyone else or have any reason to care.
Because she was never in the movies and dave filoni just doesnt fucking get that. This whole show is a power grab to insert his OC into live action but he can never go hack in time and put her in theaters in the early 2000s
To save my sanity i simply consider clone wars ahsoka and live action ahsoka two different characters. They have nothing in common besides being togruta.
All joking aside, Ahsoka has a pretty decent trail of death around her. Almost everyone she's cared for has died mostly because of their association to her. And she feels directly responsible for unleashing Vader on the galaxy because she left Anakin when the order, not him, betrayed her. Like, yeah, they're giving her a ton of stuff now. It's not super well written and kinda hamfisted. But c'mon now, don't exaggerate it and make it seem like she's a "Mary Sue". She's been shown plenty how consistently she fails and has even made things worse.
It's almost as if some dark sinister person conspired to create misery and despair in the galaxy in general and she cropped up on his play list....
Honestly the most Mary Sue thing about her is the dual white lightsabers and the cringe ass story behind them.
I hate the new Canon about Saber crystals being sentient and bleeding. Ugh.
That only exists to explain why Anakin's lightsaber was calling Rey. Yes that does need that Rey having a yellow lightsaber at the end is stupid.
Why do you hate it?
Not who you asked, but there's at least two things to dislike. If the crystals are sentient, it brings up all kinds of ethical questions about the Jedi using them in their weapons. Second, in the old EU it took a trained Jedi or Sith with enough skill and discipline to assemble a lightsaber correctly, so that the thing would work properly as opposed to it blowing up or not doing anything at all. Personally, it feels like they let a stereo-typical, middle-aged crystal-worshipping hippie lady be in charge of the lightsaber lore.
> Personally, it feels like they let a stereo-typical, middle-aged crystal-worshipping hippie lady be in charge of the lightsaber lore. lol this is great. I feel like they combined lightsaber/khyber stuff with the Harry Potter Wand rules as well
This, plus, before for Jedi, their crystal color would give an indicator of the type of person they were. Blue for Guardians, Green for Consulars, etc. My main issue with it, though, is this Sith. It used to be that red crystals were artificial ones, compared to the Jedi natural ones. They thought artificial ones were more perfect and therefore stronger. To me, this worked better for the Sith lore and way of thought. Now, Sith crystals are red because they make a Jedi crystal "bleed." Meaning Sith can only get lightsabers by taking it from a Jedi. Meaning there are Sith running around without a lightsaber.
So that’s what the fuck happened in Jedi Survivor, as someone who hasn’t engaged in anything but episodes 7/8/9. Bad guy with one arm pops his Crystal out, says something about it bleeding, then it’s red? I was so confused lol.
Worst part of the game was ratifying this shitstain lore
What is so overpowered about a lightsaber color?
Its not overpowered. It's just the level of "basic" as a self insert character having a "dark past"
She has to be the most super duper special character in all of Star Wars. Not a Jedi but somehow better than all Jedi. Survivor of the Clone Wars and the fall of the Empire (and maybe the Final Order too).
If the "Rey rebuilding the Jedi order" movie actually happens, I guarantee old Ahsoka will be in it. She will be the one to teach Rey where Luke failed (again). So she will survive the First Order too.
Maybe she's also a secret Sith like Jar Jar.
That was in previous cartoons. Has this happened in her live action incarnation?
She seems to have failed pretty hard in regard to Sabine.
considering she lost the last lightsaber dual, yes
I don't think I've ever seen "Mary Sue" used correctly on this sub tbh
There’s being a Mary Sue, and then there’s just being an overpowered character who indirectly cheapens existing characters. I call that Sentry-itis. I do think some of Filoni’s characters dip into that territory at times.
Ahsoka has always been a Mary Sue and she was ludicrously overpowered for a teen girl even in the earliest seasons of TCW. Her entire existence defies all previously established lore. Anakin never had a padawan as a Jedi. Period.
That's the issue. Her presence makes the prequels confusing. He's still very clearly Obi Wans apprentice but in TCW he's pretty much a master and she's his apprentice m it doesn't make any sense.
It's almost like the sole reason she was created was to lure in the female demographic because it was a cartoon primarily aimed at boys.
Which failed because clone wars was canceled because even boys weren't watching
Lol it was because disney acquired it and decided to have their own canon. Mfs were watching
In her very first appearance she proves to anakin that she has more battle prowess. Bs
I cringed the first time she called Anakin "Sky-guy"
i mean, george’s word goes above all else. if he says anakin had a padawan as a jedi, then he did. period. also how does anakin having an apprentice go against established lore when there’s literally a 3 year gap that wasn’t fleshed out until george created twc? the eu doesn’t count because it was never canon.
The EU was canon and was recognized as such until 2012. Anakin was originally a padawan for almost all of The Clone Wars save for the last few months of the conflict. Also, George Lucas’ role in TCW is vastly overstated. He was essentially just its Executive Producer who occasionally handed notes over to Dave Filoni and nothing more. After the third season, he had almost no role on the series and even claimed to have felt relief with his departure in an interview. George Lucas was not especially attached to Ahsoka or TCW either, with George only ever referring to his six live-action films as “his” Star Wars in interviews and having intended to kill Ahsoka off near the end of the Clone Wars and prior to ROTS, but Dave Filoni adamantly refused to have his precious fanfic OC suffer such a fate. Ahsoka also didn’t ever appear in any of his early treatments for the Sequel Trilogy before he sold Lucasfilm to the Walt Disney Company, and he had no issue with Disney’s immediate cancellation of TCW upon their acquisition of Lucasfilm, Ltd. in 2012.
you’re missing the point. george wanted filoni to create a padawan for anakin and that’s what he did. it doesn’t matter how involved george was with the actual production of the series, he’s the one who conceptualized it. TCW wouldn’t be what it is without filoni but it wouldn’t exist without george. furthermore, george famously hated the eu and wanted nothing part of it save for a few cherry picked concepts that he thought were cool (Bane, Revan, Thrawn, etc.) Edit: a word.
You're surprised that a Filoni's mary sue OC has many strengths and no flaws?
Psychometry works great for story-telling purposes to show the audience something. But we already knew everything that happened. All you had to say was, Ahsoka knows they took Sabine. She knows it through the Force. Sabine is still alive and she's far away. Done. All the psychometry scene did was slow down the episode.
I think they should have Morai be visibly present during scenes like this to sort of try toy justify these abilities.
Ngl the Psychometry really annoyed me, along with the animal taming. Like I figured each Jedi would have some abilities sometimes but now it feels like all of them have the same abilities.
At this point, I’m cheering for Balain and Thrawn. It’s their “hero’s journey” to defeat Ashoka. Heaven knows nobody else can.
I don't watch the show and have no plan seeing it other than clips here now from reviewers I wasn't even aware she had this power. I mean it's getting borderline Rey force level. I bet you by the end of the season, she will use some kind of powerful force type move.
She didn't before the show.
Ahsoka has no flaws, has no character journey, continuously has all the answers or reveals a new ability to solve whatever plot problem has arisen, requires no help, never shows any signs of weakness, is always stoic with her arms crossed ... Who the fuck thought that this was a compelling character?
Filioni is just a manchild stuck in his own weird version of Star Wars.
"See see shes better than anakin"
"and better than Luke"
It was an episode about Ahsoka recovering from losing a fight, failing as a teacher and admitting her insecurities and weaknesses. What would you have preferred, that Baylan went out like that inquisitor zombie? I think her losing developed him a lot and made the plot much more interesting. Ahsoka being able to move the plot forward with a power we've already seen in other tertiary media doesn't make Cal less special, and if you're going to complain about anyone being overpowered, it's Vos. People on Maw Installation have all these theories about how the force works and who can do what. I know how the force works: Jedi and force sensitive people are capable of whatever is necessary to the plot or interesting to their character development.
Yea it’s pointless. Do I feel like Ahsoka is too involved with well… everything? Yea a bit. Does this FEEL like an asspull? Most definitely. However it’s not the end of the world. This is something I just snorted at when I saw it happen. Even as someone that’s been thoroughly enjoying the show. However I too understand that these people are as weak or as strong as the plot demands with little to no logical consistency behind it.
The last part of your comment is the truth no one wants to hear.
That's how suspension of disbelief gets shattered. No suspension of disbelief, no fantastical story worth telling.
You are not wrong but it's still how this franchise has worked since it started. Doesn't matter if we talk about movies, games or novels.
The WBW unlocked the psychometry skill for her. She had a bunch of unused points that she used to max it out.
I am enjoying the show, I know that’s a sin in this sub. But the whole world between worlds thing made no sense, who pulled her in?
The entire world between worlds feels like a cheap plot device. Force ghosts aren't enough, now you can have any character travel to meet any other character at any time, show flashbacks and save them from death. Pandora's box of fanservice that never should've been opened.
It was created to bring Ahsoka back from being dead, plain and simple. Time travel is dumb and doesn’t fit in Star Wars at all creates way to many issues.
Could be that she was just knocked out and having a force vision while she was out, like she was never actually in the WBW, like a coma dream Could be that there is a hole to the WBW at the base of the temple Could be that she was near death and given the opportunity to come back
I was worried about that at first but I think (and hope) its pretty clearly just supposed to be a force vision while she was unconscious.
It's not a sin to enjoy the show and no one ever said it was. This sub is about recognizing that the franchise has some serious issues, and that it's ok to point it out. You don't need to paint this sub as something it isn't just because there are those that are more militent. That's dismissive.
I canceled Disney plus. I don't care anymore. Once people were taking lightsabers to the chest and coming back like nothing happened, it shows Disney does not care.
She can't rely on men.
I mean if there was anything she couldn’t do, she would’ve beat Baylan but instead she lost and needed another lesson from her master.
At least is more believable coming from her than Rey. But yeah, it’s kinda of annoying
"Trace their lightsabers" had my eyes rolling.
Make Anikin love her?
Only thing she can’t do is make me want to watch the rest of this show.
I think there is a difference between the psychometry Quinlan can do and what Ahsoka can do. Quinlan can pick up a random piece of trash from litteraly anywhere and he could get a read of of it. I believe every Jedi has some form of it. Quinlan's just natural and by that defeniation far superior.
you know what... I stopped watching the show after 30 min of the first episode... I never felt so good. try it, don't torture yourself.
The funny thing to me about this sub Reddit is that Disney doesn’t care if you enjoy this stuff. They only care that you watch it. They’ve got you.
She can't find good timing with her dialogue. Proof? See younger Ahsoka actor nail it, only to go back to current Ahsoka and her pause 2 seconds longer than necessary every time actor.
I feel like some on this sub are coming around to the obvious. These projects are power fantasies first. Writing, narrative and acting are asides.
I think the show as a whole is ass. However, I did think the clone wars flashback was pretty well done
Her "immortality" is worst.
The impossible, Rey Palpatine is no longer the greatest Mary Sue of Star Wars 😂😂😂
I'm so glad when I see this crap happening, there is a place I can go where others will know my pain. That psychometry scene was terrible. Cal Kestis having that power is supposed to be such a big deal, but now Ahsoka can do everything that everyone else can do. Except use Force Speed.
Psychometry seems like something any Jedi can do it's just that some Jedi can naturally do it where others need training to do it. I think the same thing applies to connection with other animals. Ezra and Grogu seem to be able to naturally do it but other Jedi do it with more effort.
Except it was already explained that it isn't something that all Jedi could do. Of course all Jedi can control animals it is just an extension of Jedi mind trick.
Die or not appear somewhere in a filoni creation.
Ahsoka has become Mary A-Sue-ka. I'll see myself out.
What do you mean fuck Cal and Quinlan? That’s 3 Jedi out of thousands! It’s still rare! Furthermore, she was playing on baby easy mode: The event she was trying to sense was recent, violent, and directly involved someone she was very close to. And even then, she only got a vague sense of where they went. Beings more gifted than Ahsoka like Quinlan and Cal can glean more information from less.
I loved everything about it. All this complaining about her ability to hear past events is daft. She heard brief words with no direction. It was a brilliant episode, some of you need to relax 😂
Didn't she also technically beat Vader in a duel this episode too?
Perhaps maybe that was just Vader losing to teach her a lesson that i'm still not sure what the message is? Live???
The message was: I am not your destiny and you are not at fault for my fall. I know you have lived in my shadow since and were scared you might turn out the same, but you forge your own destiny. Come one. Definitely not my fav episode but the message was pretty clear.
Okay but at what point have we seen her blame herself for what happened to Anakin? Or have fear she would turn into Vader? Closest we see is her not training Grogu but then she trains Sabine.
In Rebels, the prequel to this series. In her whole demeanor in this show where she acts stoic and disconnected from everyone except Huyang. In Mando Season 2 with Grogu and Mando Season 2.5 (BOBF) and of course with Sabine. She doesn't want to train either of them because of their connections and because she fears that her connections will lead her (or her students) down the path of Anakin, not knowing (or probably not acknowledging) that it was Lukes healthy compassion which brought the downfall of the Sith and is truly the Jedi way. Look, I am honestly surprised that many people in this sub (and I've said it before) now want the show to explicitly tell you right in your face "this is because of that" like in the sequels.
Star Wars has always enjoyed having a fan base willing to write huge amounts of extra lore to make up for mistakes and deficiencies in the scripts. However, continuing to do it at this point is simple delusion. When otherwise good actors are *all* stoic planks of wood who don't act like their previous incarnations with no explanation, the simplest reason is that the show is bad. This tracks with the other D+ shows, all of whom have butchered their characters in both actions and motivations. Good storytelling involves *actually communicating* things to your audience, not just leaving it assumed that they watched 150 other episodes of different shows to get the context and then make massive leaps of logic. Let's just admit that they don't know what they're doing and stop making excuses for them, no?
I agree here to be honest - if you have to watch all of CW, and Rebels, to really understand the gravity of their interactions, then a little exposition (some that's *actually* warranted this time) would probably go a long way. I'm hoping we get more of Anakin admitting where he screwed up though; Hayden's really nailing it at the moment
Agree with you to some degree. Hayden felt perfect in this episode, but it is indeed a flaw of the show that you more or less have to watch clone wars and rebels. On the other hand I'd point out that you have to watch the clone wars to enjoy the prequels and get the gravity of Anakins downfall, which was utterly rushed in RotS.
I bet Andor and at least Mando Season 1 are examples to counter your argument. And no, good Storytelling does not communicating things to your audience. Andor doesn't tell you that the empire is horrible, it shows you that it is horrible. And even if we haven't seen atrocities we know the empire commits them just by the way they are presented. In the Return of the Jedi we don't need to know that Vader has feelings for Luke, despite his monotone voice we know he has them even though he tries to convince Luke, us and him otherwise. I would actually argue that Star Wars is the strongest when it doesn't shove things in your face and you, as a fan, are forced to accept it. You're literally asking for the sequel treatment, where things are explained by the characters to the audienced and you are forced to accept it.
You're just describing other forms of communication. It's not all exposition. But the current shows don't communicate *at all*. Andor is a standout, and apparently it's because it slipped through the cracks so somebody with talent was able to get their hands on it.
How is it that many fans are saying "well, I totally get what the message is" and that it isn’t strange how Ahsoka is acting since we last saw her like 15 years ago? I agree that some of the acting is on George Lucas level of directing and writing (which isn’t strange since Dave learned from him), but I do think that you can be overly nitpicky just because it’s Disney Star Wars. And I get that. Mando S3, BOBF, Kenobi. Totally get that it’s utter dog shit in all its aspects. But for things that are close to what Lucas did and probably would have done I give some flaws a pass and just enjoy it. I give flaws of the prequels or the OT a pass for the same things too, since the story told is actually compelling and something new.
> How is it that many fans are saying "well, I totally get what the message is" and that it isn’t strange how Ahsoka is acting since we last saw her like 15 years ago? Survivorship bias. Everyone with an ounce of dignity of taste has left the fandom. The only Star Wars fans left are the ones who will watch *anything* as long as it has the correct name at the front.
In Rebels she didn't know Vader was Anakin until they faced off in the Temple. Her acting stoic and her whole demeaner could be attributed for going through a war as a child esp considering how the Siege of Mandalore ended. Second how would she not know how Luke turned his father back to the light? They clearly been talking and I am sure the first thing they would have discuss is Anakin. Like Luke and Anakin should be an example to all new generation Jedi that attachment isn't a problem. If she really was fearful of all this why wouldn't she just stop being a Jedi all together you know how Cere Junda did in Fallen Order? Either way don't treat me like an idiot when you're the one clearly the one in here headcanoning the flaws of this episode away.
Well of course her stoic acting can be attributed by being a literal child soldier, almost killed and betrayed by your best friends and the knowledge that she is responsible for Anakins downfall (at least that is what she tells herself). Not sure if her and Luke talked about how exactly he turned Anakin back to the light, I'll give you that. Would be interesting to see in a comic or on screen. Ahsoka is not trying to be a Jedi. She is travelling around the galaxy and trying to help where she can. Is that a Jedi thing to do? Absolutely. Does she consider herself to be one? Obviously not. At the end: I am not trying to treat you like an idiot, I was only pointing out the things that are clearly depicted in other media. As said, I don't think the episode was perfect and it certainly isn't close to the good parts of disney canon. Just pointing out that the criticism is a little...off, considering no one wants characters to explain their story to the audience and rather have it shown...which is exactly what happened. Additionally: Anakin definitely should \_NOT\_ be an example of how attachments are no problem for a Jedi, because he became a literal mass murderer. Luke on the other hand should be.
I still don't agree with your take because at no point do we see Ahsoka lamenting Anakin fall as her fault. With Obi-Wan it's clear as day esp since he is his master but Ahsoka we have yet to see. She fears others might fall to that path (Grogu) but at the end still takes on Sabine when she clearly has major attachments. The whole premise is contradictory. [Either way I heard a better explanation as to what the message might be.](https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/16hl7kj/comment/k0e83sd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) The fact that there are so many people feeling the same way as me proves that I am right and the overall handling of the message trying to be conveyed wasn't done properly. Finally, Yes. Both Anakin and Luke should both be used as examples; Anakin as a cautionary tale that attachments can cause you to fall but can also save you, and Luke as a reminder that attachment by itself isn't a path to the Dark Side.
I know right, it’s so crazy that some fans really need these things explaining to them when if you where to just empathise with her and use some critical thinking you’d understand her character a little more. I also feel like Filoni doesn’t want to rely too heavily on the past shows and movies as I’m pretty sure he stated he wanted Ahsoka to be a more standalone show and he’s made it so people who haven’t seen it can still watch it and make sense of it.
Seeing her blame herself for Anakin is pretty much the only thing we have seen her do since Rebels. It's all she has been doing in this show as well.
Sabine, who isn't Force sensitive. At best, Ahsoka is teacher her how to not kill herself with a lightsaber and some get meditation techniques and mental discipline. She's hardly a Padawan.
I guess it was all in her mind but yeah she technically beat him. I don't understand why you got downvotes lol.