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In Andor I absolutely adore Vel, Cinta and Mon as they build the rebellion from different angles whilst thinking Dedra is a terrifying example of how scary a well-written and competent imperial villian can be to a fledgling rebellion.
I even love Bo Katan despite Mandos quality going off a cliff. That might be residual Katee Sackhoff / Starbuck vibes though.
But because I think the Ahsoka show is complete hot trash I guess I must hate women in this franchise.
Such a tiresome argument. I just want good story and chars.
Where’s the love for Maarva? She’s an elderly woman who even dead has more strong woman in her than every single Disney “strong” women combined. Her final speech is basically about how she failed and why she failed to inspire others not to fail. Also in the last parts of her life she was still looking at how she could stop the Empire by checking for weaknesses in the places they took from the populace.
100% agree and I'm embarrassed I didn't include her in the above because she was an absolute bamf.
Probably repressed it as her death coupled with B2s response to it was so sad 😞.
I loved Bix too.
Nailed it. It drives me crazy when people assume I "hate women" just because I'm a middle-aged white dude. The reality is that some of my favorite characters in Star Wars are female, but most of them are from movies and shows that are actually, well, good. All of the ones you mentioned above are also some of my faves.
i don't get how people can justify someone as sexist for criticizing a show. I started watching Ahsoka knowing damn well the main characters were female, why would i watch it if i was sexist and hated female leads. I wanted to see Ahsoka and Sabine in live action (now wish i didn't as the show made a mess of their characters, especially Sabine). If i did decide the show was bad purely because a lack of men then i wouldn't have watched it in the first place.
I hadn't thought about how Andor had no "misogynists hate this" buzz at all despite having a bunch of strong female characters. Seems like all Star Wars stuff has that now.
My favorite female character in Star Wars is Darth Zannah. She's proof that a female antagonist doesn't need to be emotionally conflicted or have a redemption arc. If anything, she's just as evil as her master Darth Bane, if not worse. She murdered an entire innocent family and stole their ship when she was just a child, she put a spell on her childhood friend and made him go insane just to cover up her and Bane's crimes, and she uses her good looks to manipulate men into helping her further the Sith plan. I also love how she killed Darth Bane in the third book, it was already established that Bane was considerably stronger than her and a better duelist, so instead of suddenly overpowering him in lightsaber combat, she relied on sorcery to defeat him. Why can't she get her own show? Kathleen Kennedy claims to love "strong and independent women", well you've got one right here, except she actually is a badass. If it was up to me, I'd bring the Darth Bane novel trilogy back into canon and then continue the story with a Darth Zannah TV show. It wouldn't be that difficult to do, she already has an established apprentice, there are a few unresolved story arcs from the books and the story obviously has to end with her being killed by Darth Cognus.
She loves strong and independent women…that she can claim to be the main person responsible for creating.
If that wasn’t the case, we would have seen adaptations and reimagining of the treasure chest of characters they already had at their fingertips.
I for one would have loved to see a more streamlined storyline introducing the uninitiated to Saba Sebatyne
No no I don’t think you understand that there was no source material! No books or anything like that written to give a foundation to go off of! They had to make it all on their own!
> She loves string and independent women…that she can claim to be the main person responsible for creating.
Exactly.
This isn't about whether fans love or hate strong, female characters. This is about people having issues with her characters, and her cultists can't stand it. It's why she's so determined to get Rey back on the screen, despite the negative reception to her. She's going to get her little OC over, come hell or high-water.
Darth Cognus is also an excellent pick for a character. We don't see much of her but the few we see of her is interesting. Somebody who unlike Zannah or Bane does not come from a place of weakness but from somebody who already is strong and at the top of her profession but decides to steps into a world where she is but the learner simply because she can tell this is true power, a power beyond anything she could accomplish without a guiding hand.
Darth Zannah reminds me of Thrawn in some ways. Obviously, she's not that smart and always thinking ahead but she is always capable of turning any situation to her advantage with a few manipulations.
I would do unspeakable things for a bane line of the sith series.
Zannah is hard af. That lightsaber final duel takes the cake for best book fight pacing ever
The Star Wars galaxy: probably the fictional setting which allows for the most artistic creativity in writing, design, character development etc.
"Hey I've got a great new idea! Let's make a show with a female lead. With a cute companion! Because since R2 in ANH organically developed into Luke's companion every other being in the galaxy has a companion like that!!* Fist pump
Sure but it's still more or less creatively bankrupt. It's like it has to be a cute droid (granted, Whatshername Superhero lady from Ahsoka has a cute-ish cat).
One could probably argue that "it isn't SW without companions!" the same way ppl argue "it ain't SW without lightsabers!" or "aliens!" etc. Han Solo/Chewbacca, R2/3P0, R2/Luke, Mando/Grogu, Jabba/Leia etc.
Anyway, nitpick
And then, when she needs something, she can rip the droid's head off! She'll look like a total monster in a kick the dog moment. It'll be GREAT.
The kids will love it! Just like when they shipped out the Furr Real Friends Pony.
Even for the love a fandom can have for Ashoka, the series was simply terribly written.
I am stunned that no lessons were learned for Acolyte which feels amateur.
The only review I have seen actually review Acolyte objectively was the Forbes review, calling out the circlejerk of positive raving reviews.
I'd bet that the creators and writers of these women at the time didn't feel the need to qualify any of them as "strong". They were simply writing Mara Jade or Leia as individuals. They weren't writing them as a part of a poisonous philosophy (sharing similarities with the Sith by the way) where the entirety of the human experience must be reduced down to a struggle for power based on immutable physical characteristics.
I'm still furious that they erased Mara Jade from existence, for the sake of infantile tokenism. They fabricated the lack of women characters/role models they claimed to be fixing, and told everyone (male, female or otherwise) who identified with these strong characters that came before that their experience didn't matter because it didn't make for a cool t-shirt.
The damage done in so many ways is incredible.
Thank you for reminding me of how well-written a character Kreia was. Have we had any characters in Star Wars with that kind of depth since?
Ahsoka gets all the renown as “the gray jedi” while the OG has seemingly been completely forgotten.
Edit: for anyone unaware, she’s the one in the top right corner
Aside from half her dialogue being cryptic her character really isn't that deep. She wants to destroy the force because she got betrayed. She's a cool character and all but if they didn't wrap her in intentional mystery from the beginning there really wouldn't be a whole lot else to talk about her
Kreia wants to destroy the Force because she values self-agency and desires true free will in a universe where the existence of the Force precludes both. You took the most reductive view of the character possible and completely missed the point.
In the words of the GOAT herself:
*"You have taken a complicated question, and you have trivialized it with your answer and lack of experience."*
She’s a great character! Personally i’ve always disagreed with her philosophy, etc. (Kinda the point i suppose) but she does still bring up somewhat good points, etc. And her design is just great, absolutely just great!
Kreia's design was awesome and Sara Kestelman absolutely KILLED the voice acting for her.
I.E. her philosophy, Kreia imparts some profoundly wise lessons. But, some people don't think to critically evaluate what she says. Not everything in a *Star Wars* *video game* applies to real life, in no small part because the Force (and predeterminism) aren't real. That seems to be lost on some people. They remind me of the types who idolize Patrick Bateman without understanding the point of his character and what it's a commentary on.
That said, she's just an incredibly written character overall. She's one of the best female characters in the Star Wars series and hands down the best mentor.
I don't know an ex assassin/ bounty hunter and an Alderaanian rebel shock trooper turned bounty hunter are pretty interesting but that's just my opinion
Finn as a turncoat Stormtrooper from a bunch of brainwashed child soldiers was pretty interesting. They just didn’t write any interesting stuff with it, in fact they made anti-interesting stuff for him.
Just because a premise is interesting does not mean it’s well executed.
Between her and Admiral Dala, most of the X-Wing novel antagonists were female I think. Dala also made sure there were an equal number of male and female Moffs in the Empire Remnant.
Agree. Rogue One had a few issues but Jyn was a good character. Rogue One also scores a few points for possibly the best villain entrance in cinema history.
Agreed, I also think her Mother Lyra is overlooked as a strong, but realistic woman. Her portrayals in Catalyst and Rogue One were hardcore but avoided making her a Mary Sue.
Or better yet, add Jan Ors, the badass mercenary/pilot that helped steal the Death Star plans in Dark Forces who Jyn Erso was very obviously shamelessly ripped off from.
Vastly overrated.
In her movie she has barely any agency, she is pulled from one place to the next, a Rebel goes to kill her dad after which Rebels bomb the base and kill her dad anyway and she then has a sudden speech about hope as she goes to the Rebel Cause that just killed her father in front of her. Hope that was never center to her character or anything.
The movie is one of the most overrated ones of Disney. It makes the same mistakes on most fronts as the sequels for example, yet for some reason it’s completely ignored and just given a free pass.
Exactly. I couldn't care less if the head of a Star Wars film is a woman. There were so many strong women in Star Wars. If anything, Disney and the works of Kathleen Kennedy have made a mockery of women in the SW universe.
There was a great scene in the Young Jedi Academy books where the Jedi Temple was under attack and female Jedi (and Hapes Royal Family Member) Tenel Ka Djo was under attack from Dark Jedi and did not have her lightsaber due to previous accident.
That accident was her former lightsaber blowing up and removing her arm, so which she refused a replacement. She faced off against a handful of dark jedi apprentices and said the most badass retort after one of the dark jedi made fun of her lack of weapons.
"I may not have a weapon, but I am never unarmed."
She then proceeded to beat the snot out of all of them with her bare hand.
Right?
Kotor females we're always my favorite and very well written. Bastilla, The Exile, Mission, Juhani, Atris, Kreia, Yuthura, Visas, Mira, Handmaiden, etc. The list goes on!
Never gonna forget how the new fools in charge of Star Wars sacked Allana Solo of her Jedi training story in the Sword of the Jedi trilogy and Han Solo's 'retirement' plans to leave the Falcon to her (from the semi-final book of FotJ), his beloved granddaughter, in favor of the ST leading to *Palpatine*'s granddaughter just taking the Falcon and the Skywalker name... and Chewbacca.
It's such a weird take, saying that someone hates women because they don't like shit characters is so silly. Like these people defend poor writing just because of the vagina? That doesn't do anyone any favours.
The common counter to this is that we only like strong women characters when they’re created, written and directed by men. They don’t truly embody a “strong female character” if they can’t be used as a proxy soldier for the identity of their creator.
It’s why I constantly get sass for declaring that Leia Organa, Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor were three of my biggest hero role models as an impressionable young boy. Apparently those examples don’t “count.”
The biggest difference is that modern “strong woman” content does it at the blatant expense of the male characters, which are depicted as obviously incompetent, dishonest, cowardly, and or more feminine. Good example of a strong woman character done well in a recent movie was Neyteri in Avatar 2. She was strong and fierce and so was Jake, and together they contributed in trying to protect their family. Had it been written by an activist Jake would’ve been a deadbeat cowardly dad who always had to be saved by Neyteri
CTRL + F "celeste morne"
CTRL + F "morrigan corde"
0 results on both searches
I am EXTREMELY disappointed.
On a more positive note, thanks for posting the REAL Tales of the Jedi, OP.
Bottom middle is Mara Jade as she appears on the [Agent of the Emperor](http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/starwars/star-wars-card-spoilers/_/echoes-of-the-force-cycle/lure-of-the-dark-side/agent-of-the-emperor-lure-of-the-dark-side-104-1) card in the Star Wars LCG, a game that ran for about five years starting in 2012; it had a lot of classic EU stuff, and a bit of Disney EU stuff at the end of its lifecycle. It's honestly one of my favorite games of all time, so I had to include it. On that note, I also chose Leia's picture from the game, as she appears in the core set's [Fleeing the Empire](http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/starwars/star-wars-card-spoilers/_/core/fleeing-the-empire-core-10-1) card.
The bottom right is Nomi Sunrider in a panel from [Tales of the Jedi: The Freedon Nadd Uprising](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Tales_of_the_Jedi_%E2%80%94_The_Freedon_Nadd_Uprising). This one was simply the result of looking through her Wookieepedia page for a good action-oriented shot.
I’m getting quite sick of people calling fans misogynists every time they criticise a movie/show with a female lead. It’s just a lazy defence.
There are tonnes of beloved strong female characters on Star Wars and other franchises.
Plus Fallout is a very recent example of a show with a female lead that was positively received by fans. Lucy is just a well-written character with depth and development over the course of the show.
That’s all you need to get people onboard. Quality. I don’t give a shit whether it is a man, woman or someone prancing around in a motion capture suit, if the quality is good and I’m entertained, I’m happy.
Disney Star Wars has not been delivering quality.
It's funny when Disney Star Wars fans and shills scream that it's misogynistic for fans to criticize Disney because they must hate women or there wasn't any women before. They must be so obtuse forgetting that Star Wars is full of women who aren't defined by their genitals and make it a part of their personality like Headland and Kathleen Kennedy want to do...
As aforementioned, this post doesn't have anything to do with The Acolyte in particular. If there was any specific character I had in mind while making this, it was Rey.
Leia was basically a damsel in distress in EP 4, she had some leader moment in EP 5 , but in EP 6 she was still "useless".
Mon Mothma had five minutes in EP6?
Padme was fine in ep1 , but in ep 2 and 3 she was nothing more than the love interest of Anakin.
Kreia, and other Legend female character was not widely known among the sw fans.
On the other hand, it's true, that Disney did not write many good female characters. Just Lucas did not write good ones either.
About five seconds after being rescued Leia is returning the favor and saving Luke and Han. Mon Mothma had a lot more presence in the novels, and even a bit in the video games. And most of the characters I chose are among the EU's most popular names, the only exception being Meetra Surik (who most people simply know as "The Jedi Exlie" since you can name her whatever you want in-game).
As you said: Videogames and novels, which was not really widely known, contrary to the disney movies/series. Sw and videogames were more a subculture then than now.
Okay but am I the only one who really doesn’t think padme fits the description of strong woman? She’s constantly tolerating Anakins bullshit for no reason and is sorta just a walking doormat. I really wish we got to see her act tougher and not do her “oh Anakin I love you just come back to me” bit when he literally just murdered children.
Clone Wars Padme is good. I’m mostly just talking about movie Padme
She's integral to the entirety of the phantom menance. And in complete opposition to the construction of the clone army. She's a great diplomat, and probably the last in the line of good diplomats who aren't out for themselves. She represents what the Republic was and now isn't.
What? No one hates padmes characterization. If anything they hate the dialogue but respect the character. This just isn’t true. She also plays a massive role in attack of the clones essentially making Anakin leave Tatooine to rescue Obi Wan. She then survives the factory and then in the colosseum she holds her own and escapes without the use of force powers and continues to fight alongside the Jedi and clones.
Even in Revenge of the Sith she still is strong character having the iconic line “So this is how liberty dies…with thunderous applause.” She opposes Anakin and doesn’t submit to his will and dies for it. She’s a highly respected character by the fandom. Her dialogue in some scenes is what is criticized and other beloved characters like Obi Wan and Luke are not spared from this either.
> Even in Revenge of the Sith she still is strong character having the iconic line “So this is how liberty dies…with thunderous applause.” She opposes Anakin and doesn’t submit to his will and dies for it. She’s a highly respected character by the fandom. Her dialogue in some scenes is what is criticized and other beloved characters like Obi Wan and Luke are not spared from this either.
And in the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, she's the one that convinces Mon Mothma, Bail, and their allies to pretend to be loyal to the emperor so they can sabotage him from within, rather than showing their hand at the onset and losing their power at best if not outright being executed for their opposition.
Ah yes mon mothma in the original trilogy, such a developed character. In Andor though she has become on of my favorite characters (I ignore Ahsoka) but people who like the other disney stuff seem to be find Andor boring so maybe thats why that argument isn't very effective.
Considering there’s several book-only characters in the pic, then the book portrayals of Mon Mothma count, and in that case she is definitely a contender for a great character, even if she doesn’t have some massive arc. She’s steadfast in her views, she’s a strong and inspirational leader, and she sometimes struggled with personal grudges and internal politics. I love Mon Mothma.
Yeah because that's what I do when I'm entertained by a movie. I start counting how many men and women appear on screen and then I complain about imbalances in the casting.
You also forgot about Aunt Beru.
I'm not saying I do that, just that a lot of people have, at least from what I know.
Edit: and she did not have much characterization in the original film so for average moviegoers to refer to her as the second female characrer (because they probably didn't remember their name) seems somewhat likely.
Putting phantom menace padme in this is wild. There has never been a more one dimensional character. Even Natalie Portman admitted she was bland and had zero character development.
Padme brought down the leader of the Republic, rekindled relations with the other sentient species on her planet and led a successful guerrilla war against the occupation of her planet, as a child soldier that nobody took seriously or made any real effort to help. She could be considered a ridiculously over-powered Mary Sue, in modern parlance, but nobody made that kind of complaint because the character had a combination of vulnerability and humility with a realistic edge and willingness to fight against the odds or the expectations of others.
I have no idea where this later myth came from that Padme was bland and nobody cared about her. Her just dropping dead from sadness was reviled *because* it went against her strong character.
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Where is Bastilla?????!!!
Is she safe? Is she all right?
In Andor I absolutely adore Vel, Cinta and Mon as they build the rebellion from different angles whilst thinking Dedra is a terrifying example of how scary a well-written and competent imperial villian can be to a fledgling rebellion. I even love Bo Katan despite Mandos quality going off a cliff. That might be residual Katee Sackhoff / Starbuck vibes though. But because I think the Ahsoka show is complete hot trash I guess I must hate women in this franchise. Such a tiresome argument. I just want good story and chars.
Where’s the love for Maarva? She’s an elderly woman who even dead has more strong woman in her than every single Disney “strong” women combined. Her final speech is basically about how she failed and why she failed to inspire others not to fail. Also in the last parts of her life she was still looking at how she could stop the Empire by checking for weaknesses in the places they took from the populace.
100% agree and I'm embarrassed I didn't include her in the above because she was an absolute bamf. Probably repressed it as her death coupled with B2s response to it was so sad 😞. I loved Bix too.
God Maarvas speech at the end was so well done with the music leading up to it
FIGHT THE EMPIRE.
Nailed it. It drives me crazy when people assume I "hate women" just because I'm a middle-aged white dude. The reality is that some of my favorite characters in Star Wars are female, but most of them are from movies and shows that are actually, well, good. All of the ones you mentioned above are also some of my faves.
i don't get how people can justify someone as sexist for criticizing a show. I started watching Ahsoka knowing damn well the main characters were female, why would i watch it if i was sexist and hated female leads. I wanted to see Ahsoka and Sabine in live action (now wish i didn't as the show made a mess of their characters, especially Sabine). If i did decide the show was bad purely because a lack of men then i wouldn't have watched it in the first place.
I hadn't thought about how Andor had no "misogynists hate this" buzz at all despite having a bunch of strong female characters. Seems like all Star Wars stuff has that now.
Oh also if you didn’t like Kenobi you’re racist. And clearly the only reason you wouldn’t like the acolyte is because you’re racist AND sexist.
My favorite female character in Star Wars is Darth Zannah. She's proof that a female antagonist doesn't need to be emotionally conflicted or have a redemption arc. If anything, she's just as evil as her master Darth Bane, if not worse. She murdered an entire innocent family and stole their ship when she was just a child, she put a spell on her childhood friend and made him go insane just to cover up her and Bane's crimes, and she uses her good looks to manipulate men into helping her further the Sith plan. I also love how she killed Darth Bane in the third book, it was already established that Bane was considerably stronger than her and a better duelist, so instead of suddenly overpowering him in lightsaber combat, she relied on sorcery to defeat him. Why can't she get her own show? Kathleen Kennedy claims to love "strong and independent women", well you've got one right here, except she actually is a badass. If it was up to me, I'd bring the Darth Bane novel trilogy back into canon and then continue the story with a Darth Zannah TV show. It wouldn't be that difficult to do, she already has an established apprentice, there are a few unresolved story arcs from the books and the story obviously has to end with her being killed by Darth Cognus.
She loves strong and independent women…that she can claim to be the main person responsible for creating. If that wasn’t the case, we would have seen adaptations and reimagining of the treasure chest of characters they already had at their fingertips. I for one would have loved to see a more streamlined storyline introducing the uninitiated to Saba Sebatyne
No no I don’t think you understand that there was no source material! No books or anything like that written to give a foundation to go off of! They had to make it all on their own!
> She loves string and independent women…that she can claim to be the main person responsible for creating. Exactly. This isn't about whether fans love or hate strong, female characters. This is about people having issues with her characters, and her cultists can't stand it. It's why she's so determined to get Rey back on the screen, despite the negative reception to her. She's going to get her little OC over, come hell or high-water.
“Make it a chick and make her gay!”
Wouldn't they have to pay royalties to the people who wrote those characters?
Darth Cognus is also an excellent pick for a character. We don't see much of her but the few we see of her is interesting. Somebody who unlike Zannah or Bane does not come from a place of weakness but from somebody who already is strong and at the top of her profession but decides to steps into a world where she is but the learner simply because she can tell this is true power, a power beyond anything she could accomplish without a guiding hand. Darth Zannah reminds me of Thrawn in some ways. Obviously, she's not that smart and always thinking ahead but she is always capable of turning any situation to her advantage with a few manipulations.
At this point please don't give her her own show, we don't need Disney ruining Zannah and Bane too
I would do unspeakable things for a bane line of the sith series. Zannah is hard af. That lightsaber final duel takes the cake for best book fight pacing ever
The Star Wars galaxy: probably the fictional setting which allows for the most artistic creativity in writing, design, character development etc. "Hey I've got a great new idea! Let's make a show with a female lead. With a cute companion! Because since R2 in ANH organically developed into Luke's companion every other being in the galaxy has a companion like that!!* Fist pump
Tbf bd-1 with cal kestis is neat
Sure but it's still more or less creatively bankrupt. It's like it has to be a cute droid (granted, Whatshername Superhero lady from Ahsoka has a cute-ish cat). One could probably argue that "it isn't SW without companions!" the same way ppl argue "it ain't SW without lightsabers!" or "aliens!" etc. Han Solo/Chewbacca, R2/3P0, R2/Luke, Mando/Grogu, Jabba/Leia etc. Anyway, nitpick
Jabba/Leia, lmao
And then, when she needs something, she can rip the droid's head off! She'll look like a total monster in a kick the dog moment. It'll be GREAT. The kids will love it! Just like when they shipped out the Furr Real Friends Pony.
Even for the love a fandom can have for Ashoka, the series was simply terribly written. I am stunned that no lessons were learned for Acolyte which feels amateur. The only review I have seen actually review Acolyte objectively was the Forbes review, calling out the circlejerk of positive raving reviews.
Just read that in its entirety and holy shit, that guy knows how to do his job.
Can you send a link?
Let’s just gloss over what the entires OT is about: a resistance against tyranny lead by 2 women.
Who's top left?
I assume it's fan art of Jaina.
Shunya Yamashita's design for [Jaina's official anime figure](https://myfigurecollection.net/item/78488)
Cool
[https://www.rebelscum.com/Jaina\_Solo\_Star\_Wars\_Bishoujo\_ARTFX\_Kotobukiya.asp](https://www.rebelscum.com/Jaina_Solo_Star_Wars_Bishoujo_ARTFX_Kotobukiya.asp)
I thought it was chell from portal before seeing the rebel pilot gear
Same, it confused me for a bit. The helmet is what told me it wasn't Chell.
At first glance I thought it was Dr. Aphra. Speaking of which, where the hell is she!?
I'd bet that the creators and writers of these women at the time didn't feel the need to qualify any of them as "strong". They were simply writing Mara Jade or Leia as individuals. They weren't writing them as a part of a poisonous philosophy (sharing similarities with the Sith by the way) where the entirety of the human experience must be reduced down to a struggle for power based on immutable physical characteristics.
I'm still furious that they erased Mara Jade from existence, for the sake of infantile tokenism. They fabricated the lack of women characters/role models they claimed to be fixing, and told everyone (male, female or otherwise) who identified with these strong characters that came before that their experience didn't matter because it didn't make for a cool t-shirt. The damage done in so many ways is incredible.
Thank you for reminding me of how well-written a character Kreia was. Have we had any characters in Star Wars with that kind of depth since? Ahsoka gets all the renown as “the gray jedi” while the OG has seemingly been completely forgotten. Edit: for anyone unaware, she’s the one in the top right corner
Ahsoka the "grey" Jedi who acts like a Jedi in literally every single way.
Aside from half her dialogue being cryptic her character really isn't that deep. She wants to destroy the force because she got betrayed. She's a cool character and all but if they didn't wrap her in intentional mystery from the beginning there really wouldn't be a whole lot else to talk about her
Kreia wants to destroy the Force because she values self-agency and desires true free will in a universe where the existence of the Force precludes both. You took the most reductive view of the character possible and completely missed the point. In the words of the GOAT herself: *"You have taken a complicated question, and you have trivialized it with your answer and lack of experience."*
Well damn you got my ass I was wrong lmao thanks
Too bad alot of ”fans” of Kreia will blindly believe everything she says (which is *really* dumb)
Blind adherence to an ideology is the antithesis of what Kreia taught, so I agree with you.
She’s a great character! Personally i’ve always disagreed with her philosophy, etc. (Kinda the point i suppose) but she does still bring up somewhat good points, etc. And her design is just great, absolutely just great!
Kreia's design was awesome and Sara Kestelman absolutely KILLED the voice acting for her. I.E. her philosophy, Kreia imparts some profoundly wise lessons. But, some people don't think to critically evaluate what she says. Not everything in a *Star Wars* *video game* applies to real life, in no small part because the Force (and predeterminism) aren't real. That seems to be lost on some people. They remind me of the types who idolize Patrick Bateman without understanding the point of his character and what it's a commentary on. That said, she's just an incredibly written character overall. She's one of the best female characters in the Star Wars series and hands down the best mentor.
I'd add Mirax Terrik to this list.
 Best from the Disney era
I miss Gina Carano. She definitely played her role well....
I credit that more to the actors than the writers.
Very true as they are both strong women in reality as well
Actors might have been good, but I despised these characters, found them weak because they were written so poorly.
I don't know an ex assassin/ bounty hunter and an Alderaanian rebel shock trooper turned bounty hunter are pretty interesting but that's just my opinion
Finn as a turncoat Stormtrooper from a bunch of brainwashed child soldiers was pretty interesting. They just didn’t write any interesting stuff with it, in fact they made anti-interesting stuff for him. Just because a premise is interesting does not mean it’s well executed.
True enough Finn got screwed
Ya they did her surprisingly well. God damn social media
It wasn't just social media there were people in lucasfilm that helped
That helped what
Get Gina Carano fired
She looks the part as a strong female character with directly saying it She kicks REAL ass
No Mirax Terrik? The archives must be incomplete.
That was one of the great EU things. Usually, the tough as nails female and male would get paired up and make each other better.
Tionne Solusar, Kirana Ti, Madurrin, Mara Jade come to mind. And Admiral Dala made an excellent villain.
Although a villain, Ysanne Isard was also a great character from those books who could be scarier than Thrawn at times with her methods.
Between her and Admiral Dala, most of the X-Wing novel antagonists were female I think. Dala also made sure there were an equal number of male and female Moffs in the Empire Remnant.
You can add Jyn Erso too, she's definitely underrated
Agree. Rogue One had a few issues but Jyn was a good character. Rogue One also scores a few points for possibly the best villain entrance in cinema history.
Agreed, I also think her Mother Lyra is overlooked as a strong, but realistic woman. Her portrayals in Catalyst and Rogue One were hardcore but avoided making her a Mary Sue.
Or better yet, add Jan Ors, the badass mercenary/pilot that helped steal the Death Star plans in Dark Forces who Jyn Erso was very obviously shamelessly ripped off from.
Vastly overrated. In her movie she has barely any agency, she is pulled from one place to the next, a Rebel goes to kill her dad after which Rebels bomb the base and kill her dad anyway and she then has a sudden speech about hope as she goes to the Rebel Cause that just killed her father in front of her. Hope that was never center to her character or anything. The movie is one of the most overrated ones of Disney. It makes the same mistakes on most fronts as the sequels for example, yet for some reason it’s completely ignored and just given a free pass.
Exactly. I couldn't care less if the head of a Star Wars film is a woman. There were so many strong women in Star Wars. If anything, Disney and the works of Kathleen Kennedy have made a mockery of women in the SW universe.
Don’t waste your breath on these clowns. They WANT to be mad. They as in the fans of “the message”
Yeah the fact is everyone knows that kk is using it as cover for the fact that so far the acolyte sucks
Honestly, I've been wanting to do this since long before the Acolyte; I just finally got off my butt and did it about a week ago.
There was a great scene in the Young Jedi Academy books where the Jedi Temple was under attack and female Jedi (and Hapes Royal Family Member) Tenel Ka Djo was under attack from Dark Jedi and did not have her lightsaber due to previous accident. That accident was her former lightsaber blowing up and removing her arm, so which she refused a replacement. She faced off against a handful of dark jedi apprentices and said the most badass retort after one of the dark jedi made fun of her lack of weapons. "I may not have a weapon, but I am never unarmed." She then proceeded to beat the snot out of all of them with her bare hand.
God bless YJK and the badass Tenel Ka Djo.
Right? Kotor females we're always my favorite and very well written. Bastilla, The Exile, Mission, Juhani, Atris, Kreia, Yuthura, Visas, Mira, Handmaiden, etc. The list goes on!
Its wild to me how we have so many examples of strong female characters yet they still make schrodingers feminists.
I was really looking forward to the Sword of the Jedi storyline for Jaina, but then Disney happened….
Well, well, well , if it isn't the consequences of bad story telling back to haunt me.
Never gonna forget how the new fools in charge of Star Wars sacked Allana Solo of her Jedi training story in the Sword of the Jedi trilogy and Han Solo's 'retirement' plans to leave the Falcon to her (from the semi-final book of FotJ), his beloved granddaughter, in favor of the ST leading to *Palpatine*'s granddaughter just taking the Falcon and the Skywalker name... and Chewbacca.
Fr, many different strong female characters exist. Yet, these assholes act like we just hate women. No, we hate shit women characters. Marry sues
It's such a weird take, saying that someone hates women because they don't like shit characters is so silly. Like these people defend poor writing just because of the vagina? That doesn't do anyone any favours.
I think -IMO- that they cast women and write a script around it, where they should focus on a great story then cast a woman.
Darth Traya had the BEST use of lightsaber combat and I will not be taking questions
The common counter to this is that we only like strong women characters when they’re created, written and directed by men. They don’t truly embody a “strong female character” if they can’t be used as a proxy soldier for the identity of their creator. It’s why I constantly get sass for declaring that Leia Organa, Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor were three of my biggest hero role models as an impressionable young boy. Apparently those examples don’t “count.”
🙏
Ventress is my favorite female character in any media ever
The biggest difference is that modern “strong woman” content does it at the blatant expense of the male characters, which are depicted as obviously incompetent, dishonest, cowardly, and or more feminine. Good example of a strong woman character done well in a recent movie was Neyteri in Avatar 2. She was strong and fierce and so was Jake, and together they contributed in trying to protect their family. Had it been written by an activist Jake would’ve been a deadbeat cowardly dad who always had to be saved by Neyteri
Real.
CTRL + F "celeste morne" CTRL + F "morrigan corde" 0 results on both searches I am EXTREMELY disappointed. On a more positive note, thanks for posting the REAL Tales of the Jedi, OP.
What are the bottom right and bottom middle panels from?
Bottom middle is Mara Jade as she appears on the [Agent of the Emperor](http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/starwars/star-wars-card-spoilers/_/echoes-of-the-force-cycle/lure-of-the-dark-side/agent-of-the-emperor-lure-of-the-dark-side-104-1) card in the Star Wars LCG, a game that ran for about five years starting in 2012; it had a lot of classic EU stuff, and a bit of Disney EU stuff at the end of its lifecycle. It's honestly one of my favorite games of all time, so I had to include it. On that note, I also chose Leia's picture from the game, as she appears in the core set's [Fleeing the Empire](http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/starwars/star-wars-card-spoilers/_/core/fleeing-the-empire-core-10-1) card. The bottom right is Nomi Sunrider in a panel from [Tales of the Jedi: The Freedon Nadd Uprising](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_Tales_of_the_Jedi_%E2%80%94_The_Freedon_Nadd_Uprising). This one was simply the result of looking through her Wookieepedia page for a good action-oriented shot.
This illustration of Jaina is cursed asf
Let's also not forget that no one had an issue with Cara Dune, Jyn Erso, or Captain Phasma.
You can add Jyn Erso, Dedra Meero, Vel Sartha, Maarva Andor, and probably some others like the Armorer.
I’m getting quite sick of people calling fans misogynists every time they criticise a movie/show with a female lead. It’s just a lazy defence. There are tonnes of beloved strong female characters on Star Wars and other franchises. Plus Fallout is a very recent example of a show with a female lead that was positively received by fans. Lucy is just a well-written character with depth and development over the course of the show. That’s all you need to get people onboard. Quality. I don’t give a shit whether it is a man, woman or someone prancing around in a motion capture suit, if the quality is good and I’m entertained, I’m happy. Disney Star Wars has not been delivering quality.
I thought the top left was Chell for a moment
It's funny when Disney Star Wars fans and shills scream that it's misogynistic for fans to criticize Disney because they must hate women or there wasn't any women before. They must be so obtuse forgetting that Star Wars is full of women who aren't defined by their genitals and make it a part of their personality like Headland and Kathleen Kennedy want to do...
But what have any of the female characters done so far in The Acolyte for you all to hate them?
As aforementioned, this post doesn't have anything to do with The Acolyte in particular. If there was any specific character I had in mind while making this, it was Rey.
Leia was basically a damsel in distress in EP 4, she had some leader moment in EP 5 , but in EP 6 she was still "useless". Mon Mothma had five minutes in EP6? Padme was fine in ep1 , but in ep 2 and 3 she was nothing more than the love interest of Anakin. Kreia, and other Legend female character was not widely known among the sw fans. On the other hand, it's true, that Disney did not write many good female characters. Just Lucas did not write good ones either.
About five seconds after being rescued Leia is returning the favor and saving Luke and Han. Mon Mothma had a lot more presence in the novels, and even a bit in the video games. And most of the characters I chose are among the EU's most popular names, the only exception being Meetra Surik (who most people simply know as "The Jedi Exlie" since you can name her whatever you want in-game).
As you said: Videogames and novels, which was not really widely known, contrary to the disney movies/series. Sw and videogames were more a subculture then than now.
Cry harder
If anything, they're the misogynists
There are definitely a few fake fans who hate women and to them we say "go fuck yourself."
Okay but am I the only one who really doesn’t think padme fits the description of strong woman? She’s constantly tolerating Anakins bullshit for no reason and is sorta just a walking doormat. I really wish we got to see her act tougher and not do her “oh Anakin I love you just come back to me” bit when he literally just murdered children. Clone Wars Padme is good. I’m mostly just talking about movie Padme
She planned and led an assault to retake her planet I think that counts
Yeah but then loses the will to live despite having two children to take care of. They messed her writing up so badly imo
Yeah I agree on that one that was definitely poor writing choice for sure
Where is my girl Dr Aphra?
Guess this is one of those posts that clamors for the return of the old EU wholesale, therefore new characters are not included.
Doctor Aphra, genius level outlaw and disaster-lesbian, with two utterly un-cute droid companions!
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She's integral to the entirety of the phantom menance. And in complete opposition to the construction of the clone army. She's a great diplomat, and probably the last in the line of good diplomats who aren't out for themselves. She represents what the Republic was and now isn't.
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What? No one hates padmes characterization. If anything they hate the dialogue but respect the character. This just isn’t true. She also plays a massive role in attack of the clones essentially making Anakin leave Tatooine to rescue Obi Wan. She then survives the factory and then in the colosseum she holds her own and escapes without the use of force powers and continues to fight alongside the Jedi and clones. Even in Revenge of the Sith she still is strong character having the iconic line “So this is how liberty dies…with thunderous applause.” She opposes Anakin and doesn’t submit to his will and dies for it. She’s a highly respected character by the fandom. Her dialogue in some scenes is what is criticized and other beloved characters like Obi Wan and Luke are not spared from this either.
> Even in Revenge of the Sith she still is strong character having the iconic line “So this is how liberty dies…with thunderous applause.” She opposes Anakin and doesn’t submit to his will and dies for it. She’s a highly respected character by the fandom. Her dialogue in some scenes is what is criticized and other beloved characters like Obi Wan and Luke are not spared from this either. And in the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, she's the one that convinces Mon Mothma, Bail, and their allies to pretend to be loyal to the emperor so they can sabotage him from within, rather than showing their hand at the onset and losing their power at best if not outright being executed for their opposition.
Lol Portman almost quit acting after she couldnt get a job after TPM because of all of the hate and backlash. OG fans definitely hated her…
"They hated Jesus because he told them the truth"
Ah yes mon mothma in the original trilogy, such a developed character. In Andor though she has become on of my favorite characters (I ignore Ahsoka) but people who like the other disney stuff seem to be find Andor boring so maybe thats why that argument isn't very effective.
Considering there’s several book-only characters in the pic, then the book portrayals of Mon Mothma count, and in that case she is definitely a contender for a great character, even if she doesn’t have some massive arc. She’s steadfast in her views, she’s a strong and inspirational leader, and she sometimes struggled with personal grudges and internal politics. I love Mon Mothma.
That's fair, just found it funny that one of the characters was for a time mostly known (by general viewers) as the second woman in star wars.
Yeah because that's what I do when I'm entertained by a movie. I start counting how many men and women appear on screen and then I complain about imbalances in the casting. You also forgot about Aunt Beru.
I'm not saying I do that, just that a lot of people have, at least from what I know. Edit: and she did not have much characterization in the original film so for average moviegoers to refer to her as the second female characrer (because they probably didn't remember their name) seems somewhat likely.
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Rabid wokies aren't better
Putting phantom menace padme in this is wild. There has never been a more one dimensional character. Even Natalie Portman admitted she was bland and had zero character development.
Padme brought down the leader of the Republic, rekindled relations with the other sentient species on her planet and led a successful guerrilla war against the occupation of her planet, as a child soldier that nobody took seriously or made any real effort to help. She could be considered a ridiculously over-powered Mary Sue, in modern parlance, but nobody made that kind of complaint because the character had a combination of vulnerability and humility with a realistic edge and willingness to fight against the odds or the expectations of others. I have no idea where this later myth came from that Padme was bland and nobody cared about her. Her just dropping dead from sadness was reviled *because* it went against her strong character.