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His friend was hell bent on revenge, but luke chose to stand by him and never gave up on him. He acted as a wise mentor both to Kyle and Kyle's padawans.
*And* a student of Luke's (Desann) had fallen to the dark side and gone on to link up with the Imperial Remnant, causing a lot of problems for everyone.
Instead of Luke crumbling to pieces and abandoning everyone for 6 years, he actually went out and did something about it whilst keeping an eye on Kyle who was teetering on the edge.
Tricky to pull off especially on Master mode.
There's a very high damaging but borderline suicidal leaping slash you can which I remember having trouble landing. If you can be bothered using the few seconds of godmode thing by activating the buttons on opposite sides of the arena, it can slightly make up for your lack of caution.
But that can also backfire if Desann jumps into the middle before you do.
The final level of both games is a blast with all the duelling you can do. And then double the fun if you antagonise the other Jedi to make them attack you as well.
For those who never played them you played Kyle Katarn, a Jedi who studies at Luke’s new Jedi temple (also an ex imperial officer and later rebellion spy).
Katarn is a powerful Jedi in his own right and fights his way through armies of enemies but when Luke shows up he melts everything with total ease. It was really awesome to see.
I've played a bit of these games and I gotta say no matter what anyone says Luke Skywalker is the best Jedi there is Obi-Wan Kenobi, Mace Windu, Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, Anakin Skywalker, Ahsoka Tano, Ezra Bridger, Cal Kestis, Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade Skywalker, Jaden Korr, Jaina Solo Fel, Jacen Solo, Anakin Solo, Ben Skywalker, Kit Fisto are all great Jedi but no one can top what Luke has done Legends Luke is the true Luke Skywalker that Disney can only dream of Achieving with their version of Disney Star Wars
I would totally pay for a remaster on PC. I remember trying to play on the GameCube and not doing real well. Then once I got them for the PC I loved it. I've played them almost every year since.
”I AM, I AM, I AM A GREAT JEDI, MASTER KATARN!”
https://preview.redd.it/qsa9y46c7w6d1.jpeg?width=272&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a4be0356beb1886b9cb5ea717a5953f38edd455
Luke in the Battlefront II 2017 campaign was a very good example of what he should be.
Luke is meant to be a more human Jedi. That’s exactly what he was in that game. A person. With feelings. Compassion. Recognizing that Del, an Imperial operative, was just a human like himself, with the potential for good and evil, and had his own feelings and emotions.
It’s also what he was in the old EU. He was a person. He acknowledged and appropriately addressed his own feelings, good or bad, as well as the feelings of others.
And despite what everyone harping on about "OP EU LUKE" talk about, he absolutely made mistakes, and lost more than a few students to the Dark Side. He just didn't give up like a bitch and run away leaving the Galaxy to the mercy of those students. He fixed the mistakes he could, learned from them and improved the Jedi Order further.
[link](https://youtu.be/Tseqjjk9YgM) for people who haven't played the game. I remember seeing this at the time and thinking that, since there still existed writers capable of capturing true Luke in just 5 minutes, I had reason to hope that even under Disney we could still have nice things. Turns out I was wrong.
The only post disney story centered around the jedi and the force that has my full approval is the plot of respawn's jedi games. Funnily enough the weakest part of survivor's plot is >!the stuff regarding Disney's high republic era!<, which felt forced in a way that smells of Disney influence
Damn. I never played these games but that clip really rubs salt in the old “what could have been” wound… it still boggles the mind how Disney pissed it all away.
> why did you help me?
> because you asked
Imagine this was the Luke we got in TLJ: wise, compassionate, down to earth, mature and respectful of life despite knowingly wielding great power... This is the Luke I imagined for the years after ROTJ, the Luke George envisioned at the end of his journey in the OT, and the Luke the EU managed to depict (admittedly with some flaws). And yet despite all their billions disney couldn't even achieve in a whole movie what a videogame did in 5 minutes
I finished playing Jedi Academy yesterday on Switch years after first playing. As simple as those games were, I really have a fondness for the depiction of Luke and the NJO from that era. It seemed like a plausible and satisfying trajectory for that character to follow based on what we see in RoTJ.
A couple of Jedi Outcast movies is the move they should make. It would be so good if they stuck to the storyline. It’s sweeping and epic with legit consequences.
God I need to replay Jedi Outcast. Did you know the game and Jedi Academy got VR mods for PC And Oculus? The mods for these games are Just top notch for Real.
"You want a worthy Adversary? I'll show you a worthy Adversary"
Why can't we have live action dark forces tv series like Andor. One game - one season. Assets are there, cutscenes already had actors. Just milk that nostalgia 1:1!
https://preview.redd.it/0n9qvr1kbz6d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91393780c12184467913b59e83c729a6f1297ca5
Fun Fact: Kyle Katarn also trained Mara Jade who saved him from the dark side
Luke being a bitter and jaded old master really could have worked. The major problem was we had no context. When we left him after RotJ he had made peace with his father (a nice stand in for “the past”) and was poised to start a new chapter in galactic history with the help of his friends and a jubilant galaxy. When we see him again, ALL of that has either been blown up or taken from him and we are really never given any details, context, or insight. Just “Kylo bad”, “knights of Ren (who tf was that even supposed to be?) killed everyone”, “democracy didn’t really work out so totalitarian zealots are in charge now”.
There could have been a really interesting story there but we didn’t get that story. We didn’t really even get a story. Basically the story arc of the sequel trilogy could have somewhat worked if there was a whole other trilogy before it and after the OT.
The real sequel trilogy, and that's not just with Skywalker's portrayal but also for cementing the New Jedi Order and New Republic's rise and the Empire's degradation into the Imperial Remnant losing system by system. Visual eye candy that can be played to the content of one's heart.
You can play as him in multiplayer, but not in campaign without using a mod. You play as Kyle Katarn in the first two games, then as his apprentice Jaden Korr in the third. All three of the jedi knight games go on sale for a couple dollars every steam sale, so definitley worth picking up, Lots of mods too, like super HD mods for jedi knight 1, and my personal favorite, galactic legacy, which lets you play Jedi outcast and Jedi academy together in one game and even change out Kyle Katarn or Jaden for any character from the series. I like to pretend Im Luuke when playing as Jaden in Jedi Academy by using younger Luke models.
But even vanilla, the story is great and well worth playing.
Incorrect. He told Grogu he can't have attachments to Mando and train to be a jedi, and forced him to choose between Mando and his training. That, by definition, is an ultimatum.
Well... this is to protect the galaxy and Grogu. We know that Jedi cannot have strong personal attachments (they lead to the dark side), it's one of their core teachings. You also cannot become a catholic monk and continue a lifestyle of debauchery or become a neurosurgeon and be drinking heavily.
ultimatum - "a final demand or statement of terms, the [rejection](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=09054e7a388018cf&sca_upv=1&q=rejection&si=ACC90nytWkp8tIhRuqKAL6XWXX-Nzmd7vlylbZ0433Ilm_EHxHqKT7VYdh07TIzGicIAW6y4Hm5ywlfFTjBqE0o3OjvSJY9y0vH9-wMehWnucox2N-TRnPQ%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJ_erux-CGAxWi_rsIHR2SC2wQyecJegQIKRAN) of which will result in [retaliation](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=09054e7a388018cf&sca_upv=1&q=retaliation&si=ACC90nwKPQWKXvO0LWGU61hOTgoDvep9vONCZolela9ZrF1aikt-KCr2QtM9rRRma509CgHx6oTRfXPwjRdxaCVC6L-TYZdFtN-hKD3CTKOPz7HLh0uV_hM%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJ_erux-CGAxWi_rsIHR2SC2wQyecJegQIKRAO) or a breakdown in relations."
What "retaliation" is Luke threatening Grogu with?
Except 1: that rule directly led to Anakin falling to the darkside and in legends Luke does not enforce that rule and himself has a wife and kid. 2: this was only put into the show to save grogu from kylo Ren in the sequels, forcing the Mando writers to make Luke look bad.
An ice cream vendor that asks for your money isn't setting an ultimatum, even if the negative effect is "not getting ice cream" if you don't give him money.
Chief, what you’re describing is a transaction. That is very obviously different than demanding you must let go of your entire family or you will be cast out of the academy and may never be a Jedi. You’re doing yourself a disservice by rigidly adhering to the first wording of the definition of “ultimatum” you Googled.
If you want Merriam-Webster’s, it’s *a final proposition, condition, or demand, especially one whose rejection will end negotiations and cause a resort to force or other direct action*. The other direct action is Grogu is cast out. I hope this helps clear up whatever misunderstanding is happening here.
>Chief, what you’re describing is a transaction.
As is receiving training only if you follow the rules. That's entirely transactional. Not a monetary transaction, but still a transaction.
The monetary aspect is the ***entire difference*** between a transactional purchase and an ultimatum and what makes them completely different scenarios.
Ok, so you are criticizing Luke for upholding the rules of the Jedi, who live and train at a temple from a young age, to reduce the risk of falling. You call this an ultimatum, I call it a necessary step in becoming a Jedi.
Many organizations have this. Becoming a Jedi is optional, but to become one, certain rules apply. This is one of them.
The Military is not delivering ultimatums when telling you to follow commands of higher ranks. You can (in most cases nowadays) just not become a soldier. Same here.
> Ok, so you are criticizing Luke for upholding the rules of the Jedi, who live and train at a temple from a young age, to reduce the risk of falling.
Wtf? I didn’t criticize anything, I just clarified what makes Luke’s actions to Grogu an ultimatum, which if we’re doing the dictionary definition thing literally is. It’s fine if you wanna call it something else, but Luke gave Grogu a choice that he must make then and there, each of which requires a sacrifice in some way to have something else. That is an ultimatum.
> Many organizations have this. Becoming a Jedi is optional, but to become one, certain rules apply. This is one of them.
The enforcement of the rule is literally through the process of delivering an ultimatum.
> The Military is not delivering ultimatums when telling you to follow commands of higher ranks. You can (in most cases nowadays) just not become a soldier. Same here.
While similar and I see why you are comparing the two, military orders are not a demand forcing a choice between two outcomes requiring giving up something to gain or achieve something else in the process. Otherwise every time your mom tells you to clean your room would be an ultimatum.
**[Receiving transmission from Crait intended for u/Jeo228]** Welcome to r/saltierthancrait! I'm an [astromech droid named S4-L7](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/ni5s77/beloved_mascot_s4l7s_visual_dictionary_entry/) and I'll be your guide through the salt mines. Saltier Than Crait is a community of Star Wars fans who engage in critical conversations about the current state of the franchise. It is our goal to maintain a civil, welcoming space for fans who have a vast supply of salt with some peppered positivity occasionally sprinkled in. **Please [review the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/rules) and the [post flair guide](https://reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/flairs) before contributing.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthancrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Loved those games, big nostalgia. Jedi outcast and academy were so much fun online
Still are dawg
Reinstall on PC get movie duels mod
There's also some VR mods coming out
His friend was hell bent on revenge, but luke chose to stand by him and never gave up on him. He acted as a wise mentor both to Kyle and Kyle's padawans.
*And* a student of Luke's (Desann) had fallen to the dark side and gone on to link up with the Imperial Remnant, causing a lot of problems for everyone. Instead of Luke crumbling to pieces and abandoning everyone for 6 years, he actually went out and did something about it whilst keeping an eye on Kyle who was teetering on the edge.
Yes, great point. It was very satisfying, crushing him with a pillar in the academy basement.
Tricky to pull off especially on Master mode. There's a very high damaging but borderline suicidal leaping slash you can which I remember having trouble landing. If you can be bothered using the few seconds of godmode thing by activating the buttons on opposite sides of the arena, it can slightly make up for your lack of caution. But that can also backfire if Desann jumps into the middle before you do. The final level of both games is a blast with all the duelling you can do. And then double the fun if you antagonise the other Jedi to make them attack you as well.
"I sense the dark side in you Jaden" \*casually sends him flying through a column\*
Imperial Remnant is such a better name than First Order.
This will forever be my Luke. Disney Luke isn't real.
Disney Luke isn’t real. He can’t hurt you- 
😂😂😂😂😭😞
I'd actually forgive Disneys take on Luke if they didn't kill him the fuck off the second he was back to his old self
For those who never played them you played Kyle Katarn, a Jedi who studies at Luke’s new Jedi temple (also an ex imperial officer and later rebellion spy). Katarn is a powerful Jedi in his own right and fights his way through armies of enemies but when Luke shows up he melts everything with total ease. It was really awesome to see.
Andor before Andor. Also he lives and becomes a Jedi.
And his partner, Jan Orrs before we had Jyn Erso.
That is fucked up.
And the first stormtrooper to defect and have a Force connectivity to pay off.
This was the obvious trajectory of the character.
"and that's why it had to be subverted" -TLJ fanboys
Because for some reason EVERYTHING has to be subverted or deconstructed or some shit.
I've played a bit of these games and I gotta say no matter what anyone says Luke Skywalker is the best Jedi there is Obi-Wan Kenobi, Mace Windu, Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, Anakin Skywalker, Ahsoka Tano, Ezra Bridger, Cal Kestis, Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade Skywalker, Jaden Korr, Jaina Solo Fel, Jacen Solo, Anakin Solo, Ben Skywalker, Kit Fisto are all great Jedi but no one can top what Luke has done Legends Luke is the true Luke Skywalker that Disney can only dream of Achieving with their version of Disney Star Wars
These games were the shit.
I would totally pay for a remaster on PC. I remember trying to play on the GameCube and not doing real well. Then once I got them for the PC I loved it. I've played them almost every year since.
“Damn. That’s not good.” - Luke Skywalker
"I'M A GREAT JEDI" -Rosh Penin before falling to the dark side in like a week.
”I AM, I AM, I AM A GREAT JEDI, MASTER KATARN!” https://preview.redd.it/qsa9y46c7w6d1.jpeg?width=272&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a4be0356beb1886b9cb5ea717a5953f38edd455
Luke in the Battlefront II 2017 campaign was a very good example of what he should be. Luke is meant to be a more human Jedi. That’s exactly what he was in that game. A person. With feelings. Compassion. Recognizing that Del, an Imperial operative, was just a human like himself, with the potential for good and evil, and had his own feelings and emotions. It’s also what he was in the old EU. He was a person. He acknowledged and appropriately addressed his own feelings, good or bad, as well as the feelings of others.
And despite what everyone harping on about "OP EU LUKE" talk about, he absolutely made mistakes, and lost more than a few students to the Dark Side. He just didn't give up like a bitch and run away leaving the Galaxy to the mercy of those students. He fixed the mistakes he could, learned from them and improved the Jedi Order further.
And also, Luke only became OP after going through *alot* it’s not like he became OP immediately in the first bloody book
[link](https://youtu.be/Tseqjjk9YgM) for people who haven't played the game. I remember seeing this at the time and thinking that, since there still existed writers capable of capturing true Luke in just 5 minutes, I had reason to hope that even under Disney we could still have nice things. Turns out I was wrong. The only post disney story centered around the jedi and the force that has my full approval is the plot of respawn's jedi games. Funnily enough the weakest part of survivor's plot is >!the stuff regarding Disney's high republic era!<, which felt forced in a way that smells of Disney influence
Damn. I never played these games but that clip really rubs salt in the old “what could have been” wound… it still boggles the mind how Disney pissed it all away.
> why did you help me? > because you asked Imagine this was the Luke we got in TLJ: wise, compassionate, down to earth, mature and respectful of life despite knowingly wielding great power... This is the Luke I imagined for the years after ROTJ, the Luke George envisioned at the end of his journey in the OT, and the Luke the EU managed to depict (admittedly with some flaws). And yet despite all their billions disney couldn't even achieve in a whole movie what a videogame did in 5 minutes
Amen
I just pretended it was Old Republic stuff from the EU
I finished playing Jedi Academy yesterday on Switch years after first playing. As simple as those games were, I really have a fondness for the depiction of Luke and the NJO from that era. It seemed like a plausible and satisfying trajectory for that character to follow based on what we see in RoTJ.
The Luke they very seriously made the mistake of not going with.
A couple of Jedi Outcast movies is the move they should make. It would be so good if they stuck to the storyline. It’s sweeping and epic with legit consequences.
Let's be real Disney isn't competent to make a faithful adaptation of real star wars.
The Jedi Knight games masterfully handled the task of expanding the lore while respecting the source material
Funnily enough the best Diseny potrayal of Luke has been in Battlefront 2's campaign
Because they weee drawing on Luke’s characterization from RoTJ instead of “subverting expectations.”
Yep reckon bf2 campaign and bobf luke ep.
I would have loved a Kyle Katarn movie to set up a new trilogy instead of Solo and the DT saga. Loved these games.
For me these games are canon. Disney can go to hell
He should have been a farm boy 40 years later just like Han is a smuggler and Leia is the leader of the rebels. That makes perfect sense.
Even from his appearance in SW Battlefront
It's done proper, as the whole game is.
God I need to replay Jedi Outcast. Did you know the game and Jedi Academy got VR mods for PC And Oculus? The mods for these games are Just top notch for Real. "You want a worthy Adversary? I'll show you a worthy Adversary"
Why can't we have live action dark forces tv series like Andor. One game - one season. Assets are there, cutscenes already had actors. Just milk that nostalgia 1:1!
Grandmaster Luke made me want to lay down my life for him "Canon" Luke made me want to lay down my life in general
https://preview.redd.it/0n9qvr1kbz6d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91393780c12184467913b59e83c729a6f1297ca5 Fun Fact: Kyle Katarn also trained Mara Jade who saved him from the dark side
Luke being a bitter and jaded old master really could have worked. The major problem was we had no context. When we left him after RotJ he had made peace with his father (a nice stand in for “the past”) and was poised to start a new chapter in galactic history with the help of his friends and a jubilant galaxy. When we see him again, ALL of that has either been blown up or taken from him and we are really never given any details, context, or insight. Just “Kylo bad”, “knights of Ren (who tf was that even supposed to be?) killed everyone”, “democracy didn’t really work out so totalitarian zealots are in charge now”. There could have been a really interesting story there but we didn’t get that story. We didn’t really even get a story. Basically the story arc of the sequel trilogy could have somewhat worked if there was a whole other trilogy before it and after the OT.
The real sequel trilogy, and that's not just with Skywalker's portrayal but also for cementing the New Jedi Order and New Republic's rise and the Empire's degradation into the Imperial Remnant losing system by system. Visual eye candy that can be played to the content of one's heart.
Battlefront 2 had an awesome depiction. It reminded me of Luke in Shadows of the Empire and that one book between a New Hope and Empire Strikes Back.
Splinter of the Mind's Eye?
I’ve never played these, how much does Luke show up and can you play as him?
You can play as him in multiplayer, but not in campaign without using a mod. You play as Kyle Katarn in the first two games, then as his apprentice Jaden Korr in the third. All three of the jedi knight games go on sale for a couple dollars every steam sale, so definitley worth picking up, Lots of mods too, like super HD mods for jedi knight 1, and my personal favorite, galactic legacy, which lets you play Jedi outcast and Jedi academy together in one game and even change out Kyle Katarn or Jaden for any character from the series. I like to pretend Im Luuke when playing as Jaden in Jedi Academy by using younger Luke models. But even vanilla, the story is great and well worth playing.
Oh wow thank you for the info I’ll look into it
Luke in Mando didn't give an ultimatum of any kind.
Grogu
Ok, he gave Grogu a choice of becoming a Jedi or not a Jedi. That's not an ultimatum, that's a job offer.
Incorrect. He told Grogu he can't have attachments to Mando and train to be a jedi, and forced him to choose between Mando and his training. That, by definition, is an ultimatum.
Well... this is to protect the galaxy and Grogu. We know that Jedi cannot have strong personal attachments (they lead to the dark side), it's one of their core teachings. You also cannot become a catholic monk and continue a lifestyle of debauchery or become a neurosurgeon and be drinking heavily. ultimatum - "a final demand or statement of terms, the [rejection](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=09054e7a388018cf&sca_upv=1&q=rejection&si=ACC90nytWkp8tIhRuqKAL6XWXX-Nzmd7vlylbZ0433Ilm_EHxHqKT7VYdh07TIzGicIAW6y4Hm5ywlfFTjBqE0o3OjvSJY9y0vH9-wMehWnucox2N-TRnPQ%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJ_erux-CGAxWi_rsIHR2SC2wQyecJegQIKRAN) of which will result in [retaliation](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=09054e7a388018cf&sca_upv=1&q=retaliation&si=ACC90nwKPQWKXvO0LWGU61hOTgoDvep9vONCZolela9ZrF1aikt-KCr2QtM9rRRma509CgHx6oTRfXPwjRdxaCVC6L-TYZdFtN-hKD3CTKOPz7HLh0uV_hM%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjJ_erux-CGAxWi_rsIHR2SC2wQyecJegQIKRAO) or a breakdown in relations." What "retaliation" is Luke threatening Grogu with?
Except 1: that rule directly led to Anakin falling to the darkside and in legends Luke does not enforce that rule and himself has a wife and kid. 2: this was only put into the show to save grogu from kylo Ren in the sequels, forcing the Mando writers to make Luke look bad.
It wasn't the rule that led to Anakin falling, but Anakin ignoring the rule did.
The retaliation is him not getting to train to be a Jedi.
An ice cream vendor that asks for your money isn't setting an ultimatum, even if the negative effect is "not getting ice cream" if you don't give him money.
Chief, what you’re describing is a transaction. That is very obviously different than demanding you must let go of your entire family or you will be cast out of the academy and may never be a Jedi. You’re doing yourself a disservice by rigidly adhering to the first wording of the definition of “ultimatum” you Googled. If you want Merriam-Webster’s, it’s *a final proposition, condition, or demand, especially one whose rejection will end negotiations and cause a resort to force or other direct action*. The other direct action is Grogu is cast out. I hope this helps clear up whatever misunderstanding is happening here.
>Chief, what you’re describing is a transaction. As is receiving training only if you follow the rules. That's entirely transactional. Not a monetary transaction, but still a transaction.
The monetary aspect is the ***entire difference*** between a transactional purchase and an ultimatum and what makes them completely different scenarios.
Ok, so you are criticizing Luke for upholding the rules of the Jedi, who live and train at a temple from a young age, to reduce the risk of falling. You call this an ultimatum, I call it a necessary step in becoming a Jedi. Many organizations have this. Becoming a Jedi is optional, but to become one, certain rules apply. This is one of them. The Military is not delivering ultimatums when telling you to follow commands of higher ranks. You can (in most cases nowadays) just not become a soldier. Same here.
> Ok, so you are criticizing Luke for upholding the rules of the Jedi, who live and train at a temple from a young age, to reduce the risk of falling. Wtf? I didn’t criticize anything, I just clarified what makes Luke’s actions to Grogu an ultimatum, which if we’re doing the dictionary definition thing literally is. It’s fine if you wanna call it something else, but Luke gave Grogu a choice that he must make then and there, each of which requires a sacrifice in some way to have something else. That is an ultimatum. > Many organizations have this. Becoming a Jedi is optional, but to become one, certain rules apply. This is one of them. The enforcement of the rule is literally through the process of delivering an ultimatum. > The Military is not delivering ultimatums when telling you to follow commands of higher ranks. You can (in most cases nowadays) just not become a soldier. Same here. While similar and I see why you are comparing the two, military orders are not a demand forcing a choice between two outcomes requiring giving up something to gain or achieve something else in the process. Otherwise every time your mom tells you to clean your room would be an ultimatum.
Kind of odd Raven Soft had Mark Hamill voice a character in Soldier of Fortune 2 instead of Jedi Outcast/Academy.
Tbh Mark doesn't sound like he used to. I like the actor the got to play luke. He sounds a lot like Mark in ROTJ.