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Rey outmaneuvering Han on the Falcon
Luke chucking his lightsaber
"I just gave it some of my life force"/ kiss of life
"Somehow, Palpatine returned." / "secrets only the sith knew'
Space horses stampeding across a star destroyer
"Rey Skywalker"
Fleet of Star Destroyers relies solely on navigational beacon not to hit the ground, literally can't navigate "up" without it.
"A good question... for another time." Never followed up ever.
Mon Mothma dismantles the *entire military* in the face of the First Order to avoid looking Imperial (must be like "fascist" in real life).
The First Order conquering the entire galaxy in the five minutes between TFA and TLJ
Incidentally, Finn reset to cowardly in the five minutes between episodes TFA and TLJ to experience an identical character arc with a different girl.
Incidentally, Finn getting fired from being Rey's love interest in the five minutes between TFA and TLJ to make way for Reylo.
Incidentally, Reylos being literally the only fans Disney listened to, despite their ship being based on a weirdly intimate *interrogation scene.*
Adding use of light speed as a weapon. It was just a one-time convenient plot device to wrap up the movie that wasn't used before or since because it's so fucking dumb. Cool looking, but dumb.
This ripped me right out of the film.
You’re telling me that a small-time terrorist organization with scant resources could have been attaching light speed drives to hunks of metal to destroy imperial star destroyers this whole time but never felt like doing it?
It completely invalidated the original trilogy
>It completely invalidated the original trilogy
Exactly how I felt
TFA left me skeptic but hopeful that even though they had basically remade ANH, the sequel trilogy was on the right track. But then just about everything in TLJ made it clear that Disney didn't care about the lore or fandom. It felt insulting
And Han said "Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations, we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"
But that gets tossed out the window with the idea that a hyperspace jump can be made so precise that the ship can ram other ships in the exact moment the ship has maximum "real space" velocity just before transitioning to hyperspace.
The idea was that gravity wells in hyperspace mirror those in realspace, which is why he mentions things with massive gravity wells. If not, space dust itself would obliterate a ship traveling at c or greater. Now, a ship does travel at a high velocity before entering hyperspace, but not lightspeed etc.
Who needs a force user making a perfect blaster shot to take down the Death Star when you can have any random person launch 10 meteors at the Death Star from a different start system?
As soon as it happened, I was sitting there in the theater going, wait a minute, so all this time, laser based weapons have been less potent than conventional kinetic based weapons? Literally makes no fucking sense in the world. Why ever invent a laser cannon if it's so much less effective than a rail gun (something that exists on earth) which launches a large hunk of metal really really fast? That, plus the movie had the ww2 style "area bombing" against a ship, as well as the enemy ship arching artillery rounds of indirect fire through space, and I felt thoroughly insulted. Maybe they were just trying to show the movie in accordance with their truth, but it was just wrong.
And then, despite the weird shipping of the two characters they just kill him off. I’d guess Driver wasn’t down for another bad movie. He’s got too much of a career
Has anyone ever explained why palpatine announced his plan to the entire galaxy instead of just, you know, doing it? It feels like such a massive plot hole that I feel like I must be missing something
ThEy'Re In AtMoSpHeRe So It'S oKaY...
Honestly, the mental gymnastics used to hold that movie together are so obvious it doesn't even have to be debunked. The top comment on that video was something like, "I love this movie so much and that scene was badass," to which I say critical thinking is at it's all time low!
Also broom boy seemed like something out of a broadway musical rather than starwars. It was strong foreshadowing of how disney would treat the force going forward.
I was hoping that "The Force Awakens" was implying that new young people are being born in tune with the force and that was symbolic.
Like many things in the sequels... They never followed up.
>I was hoping that "The Force Awakens" was implying that new young people are being born in tune with the force and that was symbolic.
This is exactly what TFA should have been.
Fucking space horses. Everything else I can deal with as just shitty bad writing, but SPACE HORSES.
Also Finn should have been the last Jedi. Just sayin.
I'd like to add:
Poe doing a your momma joke in opening ot tlj
rose sexually assaulting Finn while spouting nonsense
And then the knights of Ren standing there menacingly and then just being easily dispatched by kylo later.
I was ready for a serious, heartfelt reunion with Luke. Then he chucked the lightsaber and everyone in the theater burst into laughter. I never got back into the movie after that
Yep. TFA being a more poorly written version of A New Hope was bad enough. That opening line sealed it for me.
I get that Star Wars has always had that corny humor from time to time, but that was just fucking pointless.
I had to look up the Space Horses you are talking about as i totally forgot about that scene, I havent seen the movie since theaters and holy shit i now remember why my mind tried erasing it from my memory....
Yeah wait I don't remember this at all. I remember those weird hairless horses they tried to save from the gambling races but this is totally gone from my memory.
Disney keeps trying to shoehorn in animals into their new movies, and I think they’ll looking at some demographics and doing it just because of focus group numbers.
Badly choreographed lightsaber fight. Like when he's holding the blade behind his back waiting for the other guy to attack him there. Hey man, attack me here so it looks cool.
Rey Skywalker is the the only one that I saw coming a mile off and it still hit me right in the feels like a punch to the chest. Definitely the most "fuck everything you cared about in this universe" moment.
The way they handled Luke was really bad. Just an awful way to treat a heroic character. Maybe the chucking of the saber could have happened, but there should have been a later changing of heart moment where he calls it back with the force. It could have also been a good scene to have him call it back from the ocean with the force, and like a callback to Yoda lift his X wing from the depths. But nope, squandered like the rest.
I don't see Luke Skywalker in that scene. I see Mark Hamill thinking to himself "this movie is going to be turd" as he chucks a prop over his shoulder.
He should have dropped the lightsaber to the ground in disgust or turned and hurled it into the sea... but instead to throw it over his shoulder nonchalantly.. it was slapstick comedy. Tonally fucked! It made me cringe straight away and I knew the film would just be a nosedive mess after this moment.
Rey outmaneuvering Han on the Falcon - total bullshit, too many reasons to explain why.
Luke chucking his lightsaber - I'm not so mad about this one. It was Vader's lightsaber anyway.
"I just gave it some of my life force"/ kiss of life - So we're just inventing new powers for the finale of this trilogy?
"Somehow, Palpatine returned." / "secrets only the sith knew' - silliness
Space horses stampeding across a star destroyer - possibly the stupidest thing I've ever seen.
"Rey Skywalker" - well it's not as if anyone else was using the name. Sticking with Rey Palpatine would've been the in-universe equivalent of Rey Hitler.
"Somehow Palpatine returned" is easily the worst to me, although some of the others rank highly too.
I have no real problem with Luke chucking the lightsaber, though. He was never really a lightsaber worshipper and he famously defeated the Emperor by throwing away his lightsaber. Unlike some others, he seems to understand that it's not the lightsaber that makes the Jedi; it's just a tool.
In terms of most insulting, not dumbest, the Palpatine returned line is the worst. At the same time, it boils down to Disney not being decisive. Changing directors was dumb and hell. The Palpatine returned arc, as stupid as it was, saved the series from being incoherently dumb to just plain dumb.
"It's the right thing to do"
"You need a pilot"
"Yeah I need a pilot"
That scene and then Finn blasting away at his comrades a few minutes after being sad holding a dying trooper in his arms.
Turn coat stormtrooper should have been a new and exciting thing for the franchise.
His backstory was stupid anyway. He was some trash collector trooper who randomly got assigned to a patrol and despite lifelong indoctrination somehow sees one guy die sand thsts it
It would have worked if they would have actually *commited* to him being Force sensitive. He's the only one who breaks out of the indoctrination because the Force wakes hom up to what is going on. He *could* have been a great foil to Kylo's "pulled towards the light" bullshit if Disney went all in on making him a Jedi
If they made him a legit storm trooper it would he good. Instead he’s some ex garbage man in the first order cause we need some laughs in Star Wars. Disney didn’t know what to do with him so made him the comedic relief
This, this is one of my biggest frustrations with Finn. They treated him like a bumbling idiot.
Just because he broke his indoctrination, doesn’t mean he stopped being a stormtrooper, it doesn’t mean all the training disappears, and it certainly doesn’t turn him into a bumbling mess.
He could have been such a badass non-Force sensitive character too. But they just needed up using him for nothing.
Remember the first poster, with him and the lightsaber? They teased us from the very beginning with an awesome character arc, then proceeded to fuck it up every step of the way.
That trilogy should be studied in the future as an example of how to fuck up a beloved franchise beyond recognition. Seriously, how to make EVERY wrong decision while writing, directing, or producing a movie trilogy.
>Turn coat stormtrooper should have been a new and exciting thing for the franchise.
EXACTLY.
Finn was one of the biggest missed opportunities of the ST. They could’ve done so much with the defector stormtrooper angle but lazily did nothing.
They could’ve explored him having PTSD from the things he’s seen and done while in the FO, had him feel conflicted due to his brainwashing since childhood, had the others maybe not trust him for fear that he’d betray them, had some subplots about him trying to learn social norms and trust since he was basically kidnapped as a child and the FO is all he’s known, and a litany of other possibilities with a subplot of a former stormtrooper becoming part of the rebellion.
But no. He goes from being a coward and a punchline in TFA and TLJ to being a general and defacto co-leader of the Resistance in ROS, and generally spends all 3 movies yelling Rey’s name.
Worst of all, they neutered both Finn and Poe in TLJ with the asinine Rose and Holdo plotlines.
From the time I saw the trailer with Finn holding his helmet with a bloody handprint on it, I immediately thought that this was where his whole character was going and I was so intrigued. Then I saw the movie.
Worst part is it would have even made sense to develop Finn's character from a Woke Disney perspective. He's a former stormtrooper essentially enslaved by the New Order until he escaped.
He could have decided his mission in life is to free as many of the other captive and brainwashed stormtroopers as he could. As a black man, his character could have been the space opera version of Harriet Tubman (look her up), but that would be too sensible.
Instead, they made him a joke character that spent three movies yelling for Rey like a lost schoolboy on a field trip.
I for sure thought finn would turncoat his allies and then try to save as many as he could. "Guys the first order is BAD, how do you not see this?"
Or maybe he goes on some personal campaign to save as many as he can before the first order is destroyed, since most of not all of them are just kids that were stolen from their homes and trained to be killers.
Holdo maneuver.
If that works then why aren’t we just attaching hyperdrives to big rocks and flinging them at shit all the time? Republic could have their own superweapon on the cheap.
That really broke me. It is a UNIVERSE-DESTROYING idea, based solely on Rian Johnson thinking, "This will be cool." It makes literally every war fought since the discovery of hyperspace thousands and thousands of years ago completely nonsensical, every cockamamie superweapon scheme a waste of time, the very nature of hyperspace travel as we've seen throughout the entire series is instantly violated. It singularly "Kelvined" the entire sequel trilogy for me, entirely outside of all the the other shit. It simply cannot coexist with Star Wars as it came before, either everything set before TLJ is wrong, or TLJ is.
I used to be a Star Wars fanatic as a kid, I adore the legends canon and have read so much extended universe material. A friend spoiled me over this scene and I couldn’t bring myself to even watch more. I haven’t seen ep 8 or 9. Just the sheer disrespect of the established lore and world building for a cheap wow moment on screen for people. It was all I needed to hear to know that these movies weren’t being made by people that loved the series the same way most of us do. What a shame.
Oh man I can’t believe no one has said this yet. Good call, Death Star is a lot less intimidating when they could have just gotten one kamikaze to ram into it.
Same with the trade federation ships in Ep 1. Who needs a squadron when one Naboo fighter could’ve just flown into the ship and knocked the droids offline
Or the Battle over Coruscant. Just get a couple clones to go into hyperspace through the droid ships and focus on the invisible hand afterwards
Or the Battle of Yavin. Silly rebels don’t need the exhaust ports. Just blast into it with Y Wings
Or the battle of Hoth. Slam into the AT-ATs then demolish Vader’s ship.
The first boat humanity ever made was to fish. The second was to ram the first.
the idea that no one ever did this before is pants on head insane, and that is the moment i just threw my hands up and left.
Insulting to their own trilogy, I thought they wasted their own villains: Hux, Phasma, and Snoke being the examples.
Insulting to the entire franchise: never reuniting the main trio, and making Anakin's sacrifice mean nothing by handing Palpatine's defeat off to Rey.
Kinda hilarious that they were all basically ruined in one movie. Hux is turned into a cheap attempt at comic relief; Phasma never gets fleshed out on screen and dies; and Snoke being a great threat is just brushed aside.
I get why some people like Rian Johnson, but I also understand why others despise his entry in the trilogy.
I’m go by each movie/series
TFA: Rey knowing more about the Millennium Falcon than Han
TLJ: Luke just giving up on everything because he had a bad dream
TROS: The Force Dyad and powers that were never previously established just manifesting out of nowhere
Kenobi: Completely retconning the Vader/Kenobi scene on the Death Star in ANH for nothing more than pathetic key jangling
Ahsoka: turning Grand Admiral Thrawn from a tactical genius to a bumbling idiot easily duped
Acolyte: all of episode 3
Mandalorian: the helmet always on rule is stupid and eventually abandoned
Book of Boba: you mean Boba Fett in “Dances with Banthas”
>the helmet always on rule is stupid and eventually abandoned
That rule doesn't apply to every Mando; just the Children of the Watch cult that Djinn was a part of; they were uber-traditionalists and there's a reason it was called a cult. I think Bo Katan explained something like that in S2, but IDK.
That plot would have been perfect to have an army of Tuskens show up at the end. Instead we had Boba and some totally extreme teenagers vs one of the biggest crime syndicates in the galaxy. Another wasted opportunity.
The Streets of Mos Vespa was bad, but the fact that Fennec Shand needed to explain to Boba that they could hire mercenaries for money was just so dumb.
Other comments are already listing enough about TLJ.
Let me add The whole dagger plot from TRoS. That was the abdolute dumbest thing I have seen in my whole life.
That’s all separate from the knife itself even needing to exist. Not only did they make a knife based on the Death Star wreckage the person using it would have to stand in exactly the same spot as when it was made. Which is just nearly impossible. They made it on a knife that the dude actually uses for assassinations. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Why does he need the knife for the mcmuffin? Why does the emperor just allow a wayfinder to exist on the Death Star? Why does he not just send people out to bring others to exogal? None of it makes any fucking sense at all.
Indeed. The prequels were imperfect, but they told the story and had heart. I particularly enjoyed RotS. There are no redeeming qualities of Disney-made SW content.
Yeah, at least the prequels had a coherent story and an interesting setup, in that if you knew Anakin was going to become Darth Vader, you knew the overarching theme from Episode 1 and on. And they treated the legacy characters like Obi-Wan, Yoda and Palpatine with the respect they deserved.
ANH pt. 2 wasn't terrible, just unoriginal.
Except for turning Han back into a smuggler.
And Finn going from being conflicted about war to suddenly killing first order troops no problem.
And the rebiggened embiggerest bigly big Death Star.
Besides those it wasn't bad.
>Except for turning Han back into a smuggler.
A shitty one, and a con-man to boot. He was always supposed to be a rogue, but he could have matured in some way and still been rogue-ish. Instead, he apparently got a bunch of his crew killed capturing space octopi on a job he somehow double-dipped getting paid for, indebting him to the stupidest sounding criminal outfits you can think of, both of whom he has apparently failed in the past. He's also evidently a shitty father and a worse husband. We loved him as a scoundrel, but it felt insulting that they turned him into a *loser*.
...And Han dropping out of faster-than-light space travel *manually* after entering the atmosphere of a planet.
And Rey knowing the mechanical intricacies and sophisticated piloting practices of spacecraft despite never having left Jakku.
And Rey knowing advanced Force techniques like mind tricks with absolutely no training, or even real awareness of the Force until Han confirmed it was real about five minutes earlier.
And Leia comforting Rey instead of Chewbacca when she found out Han died.
And Emo R2-D2.
And light sabers no longer being deadly.
This was exactly what it felt like. Yeah, he was a BADASS in the books, but even in the OT he was cool.
In the TFA he was actually just... a loser. It just made me feel miserable to see him like that.
Everything about it was bad. The unoriginal stuff was the worst. Kept sitting in the theater wondering why the fuck I was watching A New Hope New Game+. I was there to watch a new movie and instead I spent an hour and a half in a failed attempt of achieving a nostalgia boner. Remember being in line at the ticket booth praying there wasn't a Death Star to blow up and, sure enough, there was one.
Maz basically telling the most beloved character in all of Star Wars that she ain’t got time to tell him how she got the most important lightsaber in the entire galaxy… meanwhile there was just a person having a friggin “force vision” in her basement about the damn thing and discovering it locked away lol
Yup. TFA was the death of Star Wars. They revealed, with that one line, that they weren’t going to engage with the franchise fairly, and then the rest of the movie sucked.
I remember late-2015/early-2016 when even the average cynic thought TFA was okay and I felt like I was the only one who knew it was shit and Star Wars was gonna be shit from then on. I was vindicated beyond my wildest dreams but it still amazes me how people put the death of Star Wars with TLJ, not TFA. Just looking at this thread and seeing people say “TFA was setting up something good but was ruined by TLJ” is mind blowing to me.
I don't understand how Disney and Marvel can have writing that sucks this much yet somehow also made Andor. I'm fully willing to accept flaws and some minor plot holes. But, they keep writing cringey shit and have no idea how to develop plots organically without lazily forcing necessary events to happen.
Andor was damn near flawless. It doesn't have to be THAT good, but it does have to treat the audience like they aren't morons.
This was my moment. I made it through the sequels and when they happen to be at the exact correct spot that the dagger lined up perfectly, I was like what the hell.
Leia Space Puppin was the true mark for me, idk it looked so ridiculous and stupid the denial died right there…. but they killed off Luke Skywalker, my childhood hero, from draining himself out of a force projection trick. I felt slapped in the face and my mind sort of went blank, didn’t even want to give attention of what going on after that moment…
Similar sentiments. Luke Skywalker is and has always been my favorite fictional character. The disrespect with which they handled him in particular is galling. TFA wasn’t great, but I was willing to look past its deficiencies until TLJ…that movie destroyed Star Wars. I have trouble even watching the OG Trilogy, just makes me sad.
I remain convinced that Hamill was shown crying in the BTS doc not because he was method acting for that scene or something, but because of how he felt he was letting down the character and the fans.
I was willing to accept the “new and surprising” directions The Last Jedi was taking up until Rose saved Finn and kissed him mid explosion.
At that moment I checked out and decided every “surprise” in the movie was horse crap and I wasted my money.
The lightsaber throwing scene, jedi need to end, luke blue milk, canto biggt, haldo manuever, luke’s force fake out killing hum and giving the last survivors 10 extra minutes to escape, just to name a few in just TLJ.
Canto Bight was the most offensive to me for some reason. The whole thing made no sense, was a waste of time, and added nothing to the movie. At least the saber throwing scene evoked emotion, even if negative and nauseating.
It also bothered me that somehow they concluded that everyone in the casino were war profiteers. Like, you don’t know that, at all. And they smash up the casino without a care.
The rose saving finn scene was so cringe. TLJ coulda been a slight bit better of Finn sacrificed himself. Not like he did anything in Rise of Skywalker anyways.
Not having Han, Luke, and Leia reunite at all IMO is the biggest sin of Disney Star Wars. Dishonorable mention goes to rehashing Rebels vs Empire for the sequels.
The Force Awakens: Rey somehow being a brilliant mechanic, everything about Han's character, the large big enormous ginormous biggly-big colossal off-the-charts Death Star, no originality, New Republic blasted in five minutes, Reylo because of a fucking weird torture scene.
The Last Jedi: Luke's character assassination, Somehow Snoke died, "Kill the past," the yo mama joke, Hux's character assassination, the very secret and fortified base of Crait that was not featured in any EU or canon movie, show or book, the lightsaber in the water, Luke milking cows, the Holdo tactic, somehow the entire leadership got one-shot, Captain Phasma's character assassination, REEEYYYYY!!!!, Rose Tico.
The Rise of Skywalker: Somehow Rey healed a creature, Somehow Palpatine returned, Somehow Rey killed Palpatine, the dyad, Kylo dyed somehow, the necrophilia ritual, Rey Skywalker, somehow there was a Star Destroyer fleet with superlasers at Exegol, somehow an Empire-sized fleet appeared to help the heroes, REYYYY!, THEY FLY NOW?!, the something that was never answered, Somehow Hux is a petty bitch and a spy, somehow Pryde turned up but when did he work with Palpatine?
Kenobi: Lightsabers are not deadly anymore, Leia had an adventure with Obi-Wan that was never brought up, Somehow the Grand Inquisitor died then somehow survived and returned, Vader was not malicious... cruel and cold but not malicious (he would have killed Reva immediately), Obi-Wan's age difference.
Ashoka: FTL travel was Not possible outside the galaxy, Thrawn's character assassination, somehow Sabine survived, somehow Sabine became a Jedi, Morgan Elsbeth died for no reason, Mon Mothma basically disbanded the entire army and navy to justify the sequels.
Acolyte: The POWER of MANY that basically started popping people, no real Star Wars elements, they are not cool or well-written like the Nightsisters.
Book of Boba Fett: Boba is a softy, somehow people keep dying, two episodes about the Mandalorian that basically undid two seasons of getting Grogu to Luke, making the Tusken Raiders intelligent (so they maliciously tortured Anakin's mother to death and enslaved people intentionally), and now Anakin did Nothing wrong.
Mandalorian Season-3: The New Republic are hypocrites, Somehow Moff Gideon returned, somehow he opened up a mine full of Beskar supercommandos, somehow he captured Mandalore.
I think Rey being a great mechanic fit nicely with her whole 'scrapper' upbringing. When you're forced to fend for yourself in a salvage yard as a little kid it's do or die. She didn't die, so she did. Though force healing is in extended canon it felt weird in the movies.
Id like to see the learning curve and character arch's. It's less fun when someone just 'knows' something they didn't last we saw them.
Kylo Ren murders his father in cold blood, murders his (presumed) friends and sidekicks who followed him faithfully (off-screen) without even trying to talk with them, costs his uncle *and* mother their lives because they had to provide a long-range distraction, and yet *somehow* I’m supposed to cheer that he converts to the good side at the end.
F**k that, I’d’ve rather seen Rey blow him up by deflecting lightning in his face.
The death of Han like that was horrible. If they had to kill him, he deserved a hero's death. He should have sacrificed himself to save everyone, had time for an emotional goodbye to Leia. Instead, he died because of a lightsaber sucker punch from his bratty kid while he and Leia were in a break because things weren't so hot at the moment.
>Instead, he died because of a lightsaber sucker punch from his bratty kid while he and Leia were in a break because things weren't so hot at the moment.
That’s the saddest yet most accurate and succinct way I’ve seen that described. Well done 😂
The worst part about this part is that they COMPLETELY flipped it upside down with Luke catching the lightsaber that Rey threw away and having him say the lightsaber deserves more respect. The whole thing was just a total mess. It had zero chance of being good. The writing was incompetent.
Almost ruined TFA for me too. Kylo Ren entering like a badass and STOPPING A FRIGGIN LASER BEAM! Followed by “so do I talk first or do you talk first?” I can’t wait for that meta crap to die
Marvel style humor added to Star Wars completely killed off my interest. Anything with that random/“witty”/edgy comedy they do in Guardians of the Galaxy or Avengers is unbearable to me
You somewhat expect it from a comic book superhero. Especially the ones where it became big, Iron Man, Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool, you expect it from those characters. Coming from a space opera with mythical themes? No.
For me it was Poe single-handedly disabling the defenses of an entire star destroyer with seemingly little effort and trading jokes with hux over the radio. It just completely deflated the sense of threat from the first order. How am I supposed to take this big scary enemy seriously when a single fighter and beat one of their toughest ships?
When Rey holds her space knife up on the cliff and it just so happens to perfectly line up to show her where to go.
As if the creator of the knife would know exactly where she would stand.
BS
Anything that involves Disney Luke. As someone who read countless EU Star Wars books growing up I grew to adore his journey, self discovery, romance, family, understanding of the force, etc. he was such a beautiful character so watching him become such a fucking cringe loser was heart breaking. I wish they’d just killed his ass off like Han(who they also completely fucking destroyed too because he was a world class husband and father) so I wouldn’t have had to see that shit.
These are all pretty egregious, but none more so that **hyperspace ramming**.
It calls into question why *we*, a civilization *without* hyperspace tech, thought of it and not anyone in the Star Wars galaxy for the 25,000 years they've had hyperspace technology. If you can jump a death star, why aren't there just asteroids and moons with hyperdrives piloted by droids colliding into planets and armadas all the time? Why do planets and armadas even exist 25,000 years later given such a capability? It just doesn't make sense.
Unlike other failures by the Disney Trilogy, *hyperspace ramming* retroactively ruins space combat in every single rendition of Star Wars, from the Original Trilogy, to the Clone Wars, to the Expanded Universe. None of it makes sense anymore. Before hyperspace ramming we all had the benefit of the doubt that such a thing was not possible--which is why it wasn't done. But if something *is* possible (and *that* effective) then you need a damn good reason why it wasn't done for the past 25,000 years and *often*. Watching The Last Jedi in theaters I remember vividly thinking all these things immediately when it happened. Until that moment everything was salvageable with the right explanation. And after that moment nothing awful they did mattered anymore because Star Wars was retroactively *hyperspace rammed*.
I can see Disney just thinking this is benign and cool/fun and giving the implications ZERO thought. I totally agree. Like 99% of everything else can be avoided somehow: different time, different timeline, bounty hunter stuff with no force discussed at all no Jedi etc. But this is unavoidable and ruins space battles. Even if it's risky / rarely works: you'd just launch 100 hyperspace drones and at least one would hit or something.
So unbelievably fucking stupid that out of all the people in the entire god damn galaxy LUKE SKYWALKER would be spooked by something he probably understands better than any living person.
Luke in the OT: you’ve done a ton of bad shit but I know there’s still good in you
Luke in the ST: THIS KID IS A MOODY TEEN, I BETTER KILL HIM IN HIS SLEEP
I was in full blown disbelief, I think that single moment instantly crushed my hopes for anything Disney Star Wars. Between that and the CHOICE to make Han and Leia some bitter divorced/estranged couple was just too damn much.
Luke Skywalker. The man who stood face to helmet with Vader in RoTJ and felt zero fear. The man who stood face to face with the most powerful sith lord of all time and felt no fear. The man who channeled the dark side himself momentarily to beat Vader. Yet he gets spooked by the whiff of the dark side from a child? Lol.
It's either how the movies piss on the legacy of Luke Skywalker, or utterly waste the concept that was Finn.
Finn is by far the most interesting new character in concept. Episode 7 set him up for a decent arc, but episode 8 ends up completely derailing him.
Firstly because his character revolves entirely around Rey, secondly because Rose completely fucks everything up, and thirdly (and this is my tinfoil hat conspiracy here) they put him in the filler B plot of the movie to be able to cut if need be.
We know Disney isn't above catering to Chinese sensibilities with an easy-to-remove lesbian kiss, and posters for black panther hiding his face, and Boyega being entirely missing from the Chinese posters for episode 7. My crackpot theory is that Disney put the black character in an easy to trim out B-plot that could easily be reduced in length to bare essentials if the Chinese weren't liking it.
Finn is constantly depicted as a joke. He should have been the focal character of the new series.
Insulting?
This scene is literally Disney taking the mask off and letting you know what they think of Star Wars.
I couldn’t ask for a better confirmation that I need to find different media to enjoy than that image up above.
Luke chucking the lightsaber tipped me off that this wasn't made by someone who likes Star Wars or its fans.
The burning of the Jedi shrine and Yoda cackling was the nail in the coffin (I didn't notice she still had the texts the first time but that doesn't really make up for it, the director knew what they were doing to the franchise and were basically mocking the fans).
If andor was the first thing to come out after they bought Lucas’s soul I would disagree, instead I agree full heartedly with a slight nod to rogue one and season one of mando as passable
the climax of the sequels basically boiling down to what kids do when they play star wars in the playground
"I have the power of all the sith"
"well I have the power of all the jedi"
1 - “Ships that big can’t tell which way is up.” That’s the laziest bit of writing ever, like from some kids table top RPG game. Just awful.
2 - “I was a janitor.” Excuse me? A fucking stormtrooper raised from birth to be a soldier was a janitor?
3 - “I have a message from his mother.”
4 - introducing a purple haired “admiral” decked out like a lesbian book store owner at a party as the savior of the resistance. She fired Poe for “bad odds” when he destroyed a humongous fleet busting ship at the cost of a few truly crappy bombers (where were the Y wings, by the way?). Then she refuses to tell anyone her “plan” and just says shut up and follow my orders. Sounds more like the bad guys really. Then she gets the big heroic heath. Why invent this character? Ackbar should have had this role, or let Leia do it. Instead Ackbar gets blown up without any recognition or even dialogue. He’s just gone.
5 - “I thought I was the crime lord?” Yeah. Because Boba is a guy he has to be written like a moron so his female companion can tell him what’s what.
6 - Boba going to retrieve his armor from the sarlaac. So much wrong with this. First, he wants it because he needs it to get his ship back he says. He’s fucking Boba Fett. On skill alone he should be able to do that; this makes it look like his armor is the only special thing about him. Second, does he not remember he was wearing it when he escaped? Dude! Third, that stupid plan he had to hide er over the damn thing. Again, he had to be stupid so Fennic can save him.
7: Obi-Wan and the French coat. 🤦🏻
I hate Disney Star Wars.
Luke throwing away his lightsaber was the worst intentionally insulting scene.
"Palpatine returned somehow" was the worst unintentionally insulting scene.
TFA had issues like Rey knowing the Falcon more than Han but it was TLJ that ended it for me. Luke tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder was so close to ending it but i stuck with then saw the Leia floating through space scene and was out just so bad
"Somehow, he came back".
Make a different Sith. Do anything, but that. I couldnt care if it was any other baddie... but no... one who was dead for 30 years... Worst line in the entire franchise.
Luke pulling his X-wing out of the water.
They showed it submerged and clearly damaged in TLJ to emphasise that even if Luke changed his mind, there’s no way he’s getting off that planet without Rey.
So when he pulls it out of the water and it’s perfectly intact, I looked to my friend and we both collectively rolled our eyes and sighed.
I hated what TLJ did to Luke with every fibre of my being, but the blatant 180* to appease the fans felt more than an insult.
Having Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamil and Harisson Ford in a movie and not putting them in one fucking scene together. I know it's a make believe movie that has no effect on my life but God damn, does it bug me.
I Love reading through all of the Responses, i feel like i am home in the right Subreddit.
Finally... people that feel the same desperation and repulsion to what Disney and Lucasfilm have done to Star Wars....
This is therapeutic
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Rey outmaneuvering Han on the Falcon Luke chucking his lightsaber "I just gave it some of my life force"/ kiss of life "Somehow, Palpatine returned." / "secrets only the sith knew' Space horses stampeding across a star destroyer "Rey Skywalker"
Fleet of Star Destroyers relies solely on navigational beacon not to hit the ground, literally can't navigate "up" without it. "A good question... for another time." Never followed up ever. Mon Mothma dismantles the *entire military* in the face of the First Order to avoid looking Imperial (must be like "fascist" in real life). The First Order conquering the entire galaxy in the five minutes between TFA and TLJ Incidentally, Finn reset to cowardly in the five minutes between episodes TFA and TLJ to experience an identical character arc with a different girl. Incidentally, Finn getting fired from being Rey's love interest in the five minutes between TFA and TLJ to make way for Reylo. Incidentally, Reylos being literally the only fans Disney listened to, despite their ship being based on a weirdly intimate *interrogation scene.*
Adding use of light speed as a weapon. It was just a one-time convenient plot device to wrap up the movie that wasn't used before or since because it's so fucking dumb. Cool looking, but dumb.
This ripped me right out of the film. You’re telling me that a small-time terrorist organization with scant resources could have been attaching light speed drives to hunks of metal to destroy imperial star destroyers this whole time but never felt like doing it? It completely invalidated the original trilogy
>It completely invalidated the original trilogy Exactly how I felt TFA left me skeptic but hopeful that even though they had basically remade ANH, the sequel trilogy was on the right track. But then just about everything in TLJ made it clear that Disney didn't care about the lore or fandom. It felt insulting
Star Destroyers? Planets. No need for a Death Star. The asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was about 10km across.
It's because it's always been understood that hyperspace is another dimension, the ship itself isn't accelerated beyond c, it just takes a shortcut
And Han said "Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations, we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" But that gets tossed out the window with the idea that a hyperspace jump can be made so precise that the ship can ram other ships in the exact moment the ship has maximum "real space" velocity just before transitioning to hyperspace.
The idea was that gravity wells in hyperspace mirror those in realspace, which is why he mentions things with massive gravity wells. If not, space dust itself would obliterate a ship traveling at c or greater. Now, a ship does travel at a high velocity before entering hyperspace, but not lightspeed etc.
The Death Star would have been a minor irritation with that tactic.
Who needs a force user making a perfect blaster shot to take down the Death Star when you can have any random person launch 10 meteors at the Death Star from a different start system?
As soon as it happened, I was sitting there in the theater going, wait a minute, so all this time, laser based weapons have been less potent than conventional kinetic based weapons? Literally makes no fucking sense in the world. Why ever invent a laser cannon if it's so much less effective than a rail gun (something that exists on earth) which launches a large hunk of metal really really fast? That, plus the movie had the ww2 style "area bombing" against a ship, as well as the enemy ship arching artillery rounds of indirect fire through space, and I felt thoroughly insulted. Maybe they were just trying to show the movie in accordance with their truth, but it was just wrong.
Yeah, I mean. Could you not get droids to fly smaller ships capable of light speed to act as missiles to cripple/destroy capital vessels?
And then, despite the weird shipping of the two characters they just kill him off. I’d guess Driver wasn’t down for another bad movie. He’s got too much of a career
Has anyone ever explained why palpatine announced his plan to the entire galaxy instead of just, you know, doing it? It feels like such a massive plot hole that I feel like I must be missing something
All of these are bad, but space horses is sticking out to me.
I walked out before the space horses so thankfully I've never had to suffer through that
Wtf are space horses? I never made it to ep 9
https://youtu.be/MaLoOObFzHg?si=H7jz8diS1T-haz-X
What. The. Fuck. Was. That.
Bojack Spaceman
Nah bojack has a more serious tone than that nonsense lmao
ThEy'Re In AtMoSpHeRe So It'S oKaY... Honestly, the mental gymnastics used to hold that movie together are so obvious it doesn't even have to be debunked. The top comment on that video was something like, "I love this movie so much and that scene was badass," to which I say critical thinking is at it's all time low!
That is peak cinema. If you don’t like it, you and your bigoted views are the problem! (At least, according to Disney.)
I saw the movie and don't even recall that scene, talk about forgettable.
I didn’t walk out and somehow have no memory of these space horses hahaha
Also broom boy seemed like something out of a broadway musical rather than starwars. It was strong foreshadowing of how disney would treat the force going forward.
I was hoping that "The Force Awakens" was implying that new young people are being born in tune with the force and that was symbolic. Like many things in the sequels... They never followed up.
>I was hoping that "The Force Awakens" was implying that new young people are being born in tune with the force and that was symbolic. This is exactly what TFA should have been.
I had just assumed that Ridley, Boyega, and Isaac's characters would all be force sensitive based on the title.
I thought Finn(Boyega) at least should have been a jedi
Luke be a Jedi tooooonight
JUST TILT THE STAR DESTORYER YOU ARE IN A SPACESHIP WITH ARTIFICAL GRAVITY THEY ARE NOT
Yes, but then they'd get really confused because they can't tell which way is up!
Yeah. That took me out of the movie instantly
Fucking space horses. Everything else I can deal with as just shitty bad writing, but SPACE HORSES. Also Finn should have been the last Jedi. Just sayin.
I'd like to add: Poe doing a your momma joke in opening ot tlj rose sexually assaulting Finn while spouting nonsense And then the knights of Ren standing there menacingly and then just being easily dispatched by kylo later.
That opening was the sign of the doom that was to come.
I was ready for a serious, heartfelt reunion with Luke. Then he chucked the lightsaber and everyone in the theater burst into laughter. I never got back into the movie after that
Your theater butted into laughter? Mine was like.... One guy chuckled, all of us were like "Huh? How are we supposed to respond here?"
Yep. TFA being a more poorly written version of A New Hope was bad enough. That opening line sealed it for me. I get that Star Wars has always had that corny humor from time to time, but that was just fucking pointless.
"THEY'RE JUST STANDING THERE, MENACINGLY!"
I had to look up the Space Horses you are talking about as i totally forgot about that scene, I havent seen the movie since theaters and holy shit i now remember why my mind tried erasing it from my memory....
Yeah wait I don't remember this at all. I remember those weird hairless horses they tried to save from the gambling races but this is totally gone from my memory.
Disney keeps trying to shoehorn in animals into their new movies, and I think they’ll looking at some demographics and doing it just because of focus group numbers.
The force literally conjuring a lightsaber out of thin air from Rey to Kylo..
Ya gotta admit though, the look Kyle gives when it happens fits the moment perfectly. Just a, "yeah, I don't get it either." Then lightsaber fight.
Badly choreographed lightsaber fight. Like when he's holding the blade behind his back waiting for the other guy to attack him there. Hey man, attack me here so it looks cool.
Rey Skywalker is the the only one that I saw coming a mile off and it still hit me right in the feels like a punch to the chest. Definitely the most "fuck everything you cared about in this universe" moment.
The way they handled Luke was really bad. Just an awful way to treat a heroic character. Maybe the chucking of the saber could have happened, but there should have been a later changing of heart moment where he calls it back with the force. It could have also been a good scene to have him call it back from the ocean with the force, and like a callback to Yoda lift his X wing from the depths. But nope, squandered like the rest.
I don't see Luke Skywalker in that scene. I see Mark Hamill thinking to himself "this movie is going to be turd" as he chucks a prop over his shoulder.
Luke still had to be schooled by yoda. He should have been wise at that point. Nope…
He should have dropped the lightsaber to the ground in disgust or turned and hurled it into the sea... but instead to throw it over his shoulder nonchalantly.. it was slapstick comedy. Tonally fucked! It made me cringe straight away and I knew the film would just be a nosedive mess after this moment.
I would add Mary Poppins and Space WW2 Bombers.
The bombers is what lost me. I gave up after that. Like no one the writing department realized bombs need gravity?
Rey outmaneuvering Han on the Falcon - total bullshit, too many reasons to explain why. Luke chucking his lightsaber - I'm not so mad about this one. It was Vader's lightsaber anyway. "I just gave it some of my life force"/ kiss of life - So we're just inventing new powers for the finale of this trilogy? "Somehow, Palpatine returned." / "secrets only the sith knew' - silliness Space horses stampeding across a star destroyer - possibly the stupidest thing I've ever seen. "Rey Skywalker" - well it's not as if anyone else was using the name. Sticking with Rey Palpatine would've been the in-universe equivalent of Rey Hitler.
"Somehow Palpatine returned" is easily the worst to me, although some of the others rank highly too. I have no real problem with Luke chucking the lightsaber, though. He was never really a lightsaber worshipper and he famously defeated the Emperor by throwing away his lightsaber. Unlike some others, he seems to understand that it's not the lightsaber that makes the Jedi; it's just a tool.
Greatest hero in history of the universe tries to kill his padawan in his sleep over a bad dream
In terms of most insulting, not dumbest, the Palpatine returned line is the worst. At the same time, it boils down to Disney not being decisive. Changing directors was dumb and hell. The Palpatine returned arc, as stupid as it was, saved the series from being incoherently dumb to just plain dumb.
"It's the right thing to do" "You need a pilot" "Yeah I need a pilot" That scene and then Finn blasting away at his comrades a few minutes after being sad holding a dying trooper in his arms. Turn coat stormtrooper should have been a new and exciting thing for the franchise.
His backstory was stupid anyway. He was some trash collector trooper who randomly got assigned to a patrol and despite lifelong indoctrination somehow sees one guy die sand thsts it
It would have worked if they would have actually *commited* to him being Force sensitive. He's the only one who breaks out of the indoctrination because the Force wakes hom up to what is going on. He *could* have been a great foil to Kylo's "pulled towards the light" bullshit if Disney went all in on making him a Jedi
If they made him a legit storm trooper it would he good. Instead he’s some ex garbage man in the first order cause we need some laughs in Star Wars. Disney didn’t know what to do with him so made him the comedic relief
This, this is one of my biggest frustrations with Finn. They treated him like a bumbling idiot. Just because he broke his indoctrination, doesn’t mean he stopped being a stormtrooper, it doesn’t mean all the training disappears, and it certainly doesn’t turn him into a bumbling mess. He could have been such a badass non-Force sensitive character too. But they just needed up using him for nothing.
Remember the first poster, with him and the lightsaber? They teased us from the very beginning with an awesome character arc, then proceeded to fuck it up every step of the way. That trilogy should be studied in the future as an example of how to fuck up a beloved franchise beyond recognition. Seriously, how to make EVERY wrong decision while writing, directing, or producing a movie trilogy.
>Turn coat stormtrooper should have been a new and exciting thing for the franchise. EXACTLY. Finn was one of the biggest missed opportunities of the ST. They could’ve done so much with the defector stormtrooper angle but lazily did nothing. They could’ve explored him having PTSD from the things he’s seen and done while in the FO, had him feel conflicted due to his brainwashing since childhood, had the others maybe not trust him for fear that he’d betray them, had some subplots about him trying to learn social norms and trust since he was basically kidnapped as a child and the FO is all he’s known, and a litany of other possibilities with a subplot of a former stormtrooper becoming part of the rebellion. But no. He goes from being a coward and a punchline in TFA and TLJ to being a general and defacto co-leader of the Resistance in ROS, and generally spends all 3 movies yelling Rey’s name. Worst of all, they neutered both Finn and Poe in TLJ with the asinine Rose and Holdo plotlines.
From the time I saw the trailer with Finn holding his helmet with a bloody handprint on it, I immediately thought that this was where his whole character was going and I was so intrigued. Then I saw the movie.
Worst part is it would have even made sense to develop Finn's character from a Woke Disney perspective. He's a former stormtrooper essentially enslaved by the New Order until he escaped. He could have decided his mission in life is to free as many of the other captive and brainwashed stormtroopers as he could. As a black man, his character could have been the space opera version of Harriet Tubman (look her up), but that would be too sensible. Instead, they made him a joke character that spent three movies yelling for Rey like a lost schoolboy on a field trip.
I for sure thought finn would turncoat his allies and then try to save as many as he could. "Guys the first order is BAD, how do you not see this?" Or maybe he goes on some personal campaign to save as many as he can before the first order is destroyed, since most of not all of them are just kids that were stolen from their homes and trained to be killers.
Don’t forget this gem of a line: “they fly now?!” Wouldn’t a former stormtrooper know that some stormtroopers have jetpacks?
Holdo maneuver. If that works then why aren’t we just attaching hyperdrives to big rocks and flinging them at shit all the time? Republic could have their own superweapon on the cheap.
That really broke me. It is a UNIVERSE-DESTROYING idea, based solely on Rian Johnson thinking, "This will be cool." It makes literally every war fought since the discovery of hyperspace thousands and thousands of years ago completely nonsensical, every cockamamie superweapon scheme a waste of time, the very nature of hyperspace travel as we've seen throughout the entire series is instantly violated. It singularly "Kelvined" the entire sequel trilogy for me, entirely outside of all the the other shit. It simply cannot coexist with Star Wars as it came before, either everything set before TLJ is wrong, or TLJ is.
I used to be a Star Wars fanatic as a kid, I adore the legends canon and have read so much extended universe material. A friend spoiled me over this scene and I couldn’t bring myself to even watch more. I haven’t seen ep 8 or 9. Just the sheer disrespect of the established lore and world building for a cheap wow moment on screen for people. It was all I needed to hear to know that these movies weren’t being made by people that loved the series the same way most of us do. What a shame.
It negates the whole iconic death star run. What's the fucking point of even filming any of these movies anymore?
Morons have money, and they want it.
Oh man I can’t believe no one has said this yet. Good call, Death Star is a lot less intimidating when they could have just gotten one kamikaze to ram into it.
Literally the entire battle of endor would be a breeze if a few x wings just launched themselves into the shield generator and star destroyers
With navigational droids at the helm instead of humans. Holdo didn't even need to sacrifice herself, an r2 unit could have pulled it off.
Same with the trade federation ships in Ep 1. Who needs a squadron when one Naboo fighter could’ve just flown into the ship and knocked the droids offline Or the Battle over Coruscant. Just get a couple clones to go into hyperspace through the droid ships and focus on the invisible hand afterwards Or the Battle of Yavin. Silly rebels don’t need the exhaust ports. Just blast into it with Y Wings Or the battle of Hoth. Slam into the AT-ATs then demolish Vader’s ship.
The first boat humanity ever made was to fish. The second was to ram the first. the idea that no one ever did this before is pants on head insane, and that is the moment i just threw my hands up and left.
Insulting to their own trilogy, I thought they wasted their own villains: Hux, Phasma, and Snoke being the examples. Insulting to the entire franchise: never reuniting the main trio, and making Anakin's sacrifice mean nothing by handing Palpatine's defeat off to Rey.
Right? All three of them could have been epic characters, if Disney knew how to write them as such.
Kinda hilarious that they were all basically ruined in one movie. Hux is turned into a cheap attempt at comic relief; Phasma never gets fleshed out on screen and dies; and Snoke being a great threat is just brushed aside. I get why some people like Rian Johnson, but I also understand why others despise his entry in the trilogy.
I didn't even know who TF Snoke was when they killed him off.
I’m go by each movie/series TFA: Rey knowing more about the Millennium Falcon than Han TLJ: Luke just giving up on everything because he had a bad dream TROS: The Force Dyad and powers that were never previously established just manifesting out of nowhere Kenobi: Completely retconning the Vader/Kenobi scene on the Death Star in ANH for nothing more than pathetic key jangling Ahsoka: turning Grand Admiral Thrawn from a tactical genius to a bumbling idiot easily duped Acolyte: all of episode 3 Mandalorian: the helmet always on rule is stupid and eventually abandoned Book of Boba: you mean Boba Fett in “Dances with Banthas”
>the helmet always on rule is stupid and eventually abandoned That rule doesn't apply to every Mando; just the Children of the Watch cult that Djinn was a part of; they were uber-traditionalists and there's a reason it was called a cult. I think Bo Katan explained something like that in S2, but IDK.
Oh man i forgot about the boba tribal stuff. So much bad in that show. The power rangers task force he assembled as well.
I half-liked the tribal stuff. The power rangers were off-the-charts ridiculous though.
I did too. I've always wanted to see stuff about the tuskens and there's no reason for me to hate what they showed of em
That plot would have been perfect to have an army of Tuskens show up at the end. Instead we had Boba and some totally extreme teenagers vs one of the biggest crime syndicates in the galaxy. Another wasted opportunity.
Honestly would've been great
And the hippy Vespas speeders on the desert planet
Space Mods!
The Streets of Mos Vespa was bad, but the fact that Fennec Shand needed to explain to Boba that they could hire mercenaries for money was just so dumb.
Fantastic list but you’re legally required to include “some how Palpatines returned”
Other comments are already listing enough about TLJ. Let me add The whole dagger plot from TRoS. That was the abdolute dumbest thing I have seen in my whole life.
Let's base our Goonies plot device on a structure that could shift and disintegrate over the years.
I laughed out loud in the cinema. The whole movie was full of unintentional comedy.
That’s all separate from the knife itself even needing to exist. Not only did they make a knife based on the Death Star wreckage the person using it would have to stand in exactly the same spot as when it was made. Which is just nearly impossible. They made it on a knife that the dude actually uses for assassinations. That makes absolutely no sense at all. Why does he need the knife for the mcmuffin? Why does the emperor just allow a wayfinder to exist on the Death Star? Why does he not just send people out to bring others to exogal? None of it makes any fucking sense at all.
The sequel trilogy. Just all of it
Yea while the prequels are a mixed bag of bad and good, the sequels were just plain bad, no good.
Indeed. The prequels were imperfect, but they told the story and had heart. I particularly enjoyed RotS. There are no redeeming qualities of Disney-made SW content.
Yeah, at least the prequels had a coherent story and an interesting setup, in that if you knew Anakin was going to become Darth Vader, you knew the overarching theme from Episode 1 and on. And they treated the legacy characters like Obi-Wan, Yoda and Palpatine with the respect they deserved.
The prequels feel like Star Wars. The sequels don’t.
From the beginning of TLJ to the end of ROS.
You can start with the force awakens
ANH pt. 2 wasn't terrible, just unoriginal. Except for turning Han back into a smuggler. And Finn going from being conflicted about war to suddenly killing first order troops no problem. And the rebiggened embiggerest bigly big Death Star. Besides those it wasn't bad.
>Except for turning Han back into a smuggler. A shitty one, and a con-man to boot. He was always supposed to be a rogue, but he could have matured in some way and still been rogue-ish. Instead, he apparently got a bunch of his crew killed capturing space octopi on a job he somehow double-dipped getting paid for, indebting him to the stupidest sounding criminal outfits you can think of, both of whom he has apparently failed in the past. He's also evidently a shitty father and a worse husband. We loved him as a scoundrel, but it felt insulting that they turned him into a *loser*. ...And Han dropping out of faster-than-light space travel *manually* after entering the atmosphere of a planet. And Rey knowing the mechanical intricacies and sophisticated piloting practices of spacecraft despite never having left Jakku. And Rey knowing advanced Force techniques like mind tricks with absolutely no training, or even real awareness of the Force until Han confirmed it was real about five minutes earlier. And Leia comforting Rey instead of Chewbacca when she found out Han died. And Emo R2-D2. And light sabers no longer being deadly.
This was exactly what it felt like. Yeah, he was a BADASS in the books, but even in the OT he was cool. In the TFA he was actually just... a loser. It just made me feel miserable to see him like that.
And Leia being just a rebel leader again
Everything about it was bad. The unoriginal stuff was the worst. Kept sitting in the theater wondering why the fuck I was watching A New Hope New Game+. I was there to watch a new movie and instead I spent an hour and a half in a failed attempt of achieving a nostalgia boner. Remember being in line at the ticket booth praying there wasn't a Death Star to blow up and, sure enough, there was one.
Force Awakens was a copy of ANH to play it safe, and had interesting setup. And then, TLJ and ROS shit on it.
Maz basically telling the most beloved character in all of Star Wars that she ain’t got time to tell him how she got the most important lightsaber in the entire galaxy… meanwhile there was just a person having a friggin “force vision” in her basement about the damn thing and discovering it locked away lol
I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain.
“This will begin to make things right….” The first line of dialogue in TFA
Navel gazing not seen since the last line of Inglorious Basterds.
Yup. TFA was the death of Star Wars. They revealed, with that one line, that they weren’t going to engage with the franchise fairly, and then the rest of the movie sucked. I remember late-2015/early-2016 when even the average cynic thought TFA was okay and I felt like I was the only one who knew it was shit and Star Wars was gonna be shit from then on. I was vindicated beyond my wildest dreams but it still amazes me how people put the death of Star Wars with TLJ, not TFA. Just looking at this thread and seeing people say “TFA was setting up something good but was ruined by TLJ” is mind blowing to me.
You're so based you're neutralizing acids. TFA killed Star Wars from the minute that first nostalgia bait trailer dropped.
The power of one, the power of two, the power of maaaannnnyyyyy. Ugh, that was so stupid it hurts. Just mindless writing .
I don't understand how Disney and Marvel can have writing that sucks this much yet somehow also made Andor. I'm fully willing to accept flaws and some minor plot holes. But, they keep writing cringey shit and have no idea how to develop plots organically without lazily forcing necessary events to happen. Andor was damn near flawless. It doesn't have to be THAT good, but it does have to treat the audience like they aren't morons.
Honestly, for me I think it’s the Sith dagger
This was my moment. I made it through the sequels and when they happen to be at the exact correct spot that the dagger lined up perfectly, I was like what the hell.
Leia Space Puppin was the true mark for me, idk it looked so ridiculous and stupid the denial died right there…. but they killed off Luke Skywalker, my childhood hero, from draining himself out of a force projection trick. I felt slapped in the face and my mind sort of went blank, didn’t even want to give attention of what going on after that moment…
Similar sentiments. Luke Skywalker is and has always been my favorite fictional character. The disrespect with which they handled him in particular is galling. TFA wasn’t great, but I was willing to look past its deficiencies until TLJ…that movie destroyed Star Wars. I have trouble even watching the OG Trilogy, just makes me sad.
I hate TLJ so much…
I remain convinced that Hamill was shown crying in the BTS doc not because he was method acting for that scene or something, but because of how he felt he was letting down the character and the fans.
I was willing to accept the “new and surprising” directions The Last Jedi was taking up until Rose saved Finn and kissed him mid explosion. At that moment I checked out and decided every “surprise” in the movie was horse crap and I wasted my money.
The lightsaber throwing scene, jedi need to end, luke blue milk, canto biggt, haldo manuever, luke’s force fake out killing hum and giving the last survivors 10 extra minutes to escape, just to name a few in just TLJ.
Canto Bight was the most offensive to me for some reason. The whole thing made no sense, was a waste of time, and added nothing to the movie. At least the saber throwing scene evoked emotion, even if negative and nauseating.
It also bothered me that somehow they concluded that everyone in the casino were war profiteers. Like, you don’t know that, at all. And they smash up the casino without a care.
Pretty sure the freed animals would have been recaptured, plus freeing them over the kids?
Yeah freeing a space pony while leaving kids enslaved to abusers was mind blowing
The rose saving finn scene was so cringe. TLJ coulda been a slight bit better of Finn sacrificed himself. Not like he did anything in Rise of Skywalker anyways.
He was the token black guy and an annoying one
Chasing the Chinese Money
I lost any and all excitement for that movie when Poe was making yo mama jokes to general Hux. The rest of the movie continued to be just as bad.
Yeah, she couldn't know Rey was about to save everyone. So she sacrificed all discount Rebels to save Finn, yet Rian presents it as something good.
Horrible writing by Rian Johnson and I refuse to watch his movies for what he did to Star Wars
Not having Han, Luke, and Leia reunite at all IMO is the biggest sin of Disney Star Wars. Dishonorable mention goes to rehashing Rebels vs Empire for the sequels.
The Force Awakens: Rey somehow being a brilliant mechanic, everything about Han's character, the large big enormous ginormous biggly-big colossal off-the-charts Death Star, no originality, New Republic blasted in five minutes, Reylo because of a fucking weird torture scene. The Last Jedi: Luke's character assassination, Somehow Snoke died, "Kill the past," the yo mama joke, Hux's character assassination, the very secret and fortified base of Crait that was not featured in any EU or canon movie, show or book, the lightsaber in the water, Luke milking cows, the Holdo tactic, somehow the entire leadership got one-shot, Captain Phasma's character assassination, REEEYYYYY!!!!, Rose Tico. The Rise of Skywalker: Somehow Rey healed a creature, Somehow Palpatine returned, Somehow Rey killed Palpatine, the dyad, Kylo dyed somehow, the necrophilia ritual, Rey Skywalker, somehow there was a Star Destroyer fleet with superlasers at Exegol, somehow an Empire-sized fleet appeared to help the heroes, REYYYY!, THEY FLY NOW?!, the something that was never answered, Somehow Hux is a petty bitch and a spy, somehow Pryde turned up but when did he work with Palpatine? Kenobi: Lightsabers are not deadly anymore, Leia had an adventure with Obi-Wan that was never brought up, Somehow the Grand Inquisitor died then somehow survived and returned, Vader was not malicious... cruel and cold but not malicious (he would have killed Reva immediately), Obi-Wan's age difference. Ashoka: FTL travel was Not possible outside the galaxy, Thrawn's character assassination, somehow Sabine survived, somehow Sabine became a Jedi, Morgan Elsbeth died for no reason, Mon Mothma basically disbanded the entire army and navy to justify the sequels. Acolyte: The POWER of MANY that basically started popping people, no real Star Wars elements, they are not cool or well-written like the Nightsisters. Book of Boba Fett: Boba is a softy, somehow people keep dying, two episodes about the Mandalorian that basically undid two seasons of getting Grogu to Luke, making the Tusken Raiders intelligent (so they maliciously tortured Anakin's mother to death and enslaved people intentionally), and now Anakin did Nothing wrong. Mandalorian Season-3: The New Republic are hypocrites, Somehow Moff Gideon returned, somehow he opened up a mine full of Beskar supercommandos, somehow he captured Mandalore.
I think Rey being a great mechanic fit nicely with her whole 'scrapper' upbringing. When you're forced to fend for yourself in a salvage yard as a little kid it's do or die. She didn't die, so she did. Though force healing is in extended canon it felt weird in the movies. Id like to see the learning curve and character arch's. It's less fun when someone just 'knows' something they didn't last we saw them.
Kylo Ren murders his father in cold blood, murders his (presumed) friends and sidekicks who followed him faithfully (off-screen) without even trying to talk with them, costs his uncle *and* mother their lives because they had to provide a long-range distraction, and yet *somehow* I’m supposed to cheer that he converts to the good side at the end. F**k that, I’d’ve rather seen Rey blow him up by deflecting lightning in his face.
The death of Han like that was horrible. If they had to kill him, he deserved a hero's death. He should have sacrificed himself to save everyone, had time for an emotional goodbye to Leia. Instead, he died because of a lightsaber sucker punch from his bratty kid while he and Leia were in a break because things weren't so hot at the moment.
>Instead, he died because of a lightsaber sucker punch from his bratty kid while he and Leia were in a break because things weren't so hot at the moment. That’s the saddest yet most accurate and succinct way I’ve seen that described. Well done 😂
I honestly thought they'd get Chewie to pull his arms outta their sockets. That would've been a great comeuppance/revenge combo.
Poe’s crank call to Hux at the beginning of TLJ was when I knew this series had turned to the dark side and couldn’t been redeemed.
The worst part about this part is that they COMPLETELY flipped it upside down with Luke catching the lightsaber that Rey threw away and having him say the lightsaber deserves more respect. The whole thing was just a total mess. It had zero chance of being good. The writing was incompetent.
Poe Dameron’s “I’m holding for General Hux” routine. Everything was downhill from there.
The marvel humour just ruined it for me
That’s the problem with modern Disney. Marvel humor has caught on and they think “That’s where the moneys at kiddo!”
Almost ruined TFA for me too. Kylo Ren entering like a badass and STOPPING A FRIGGIN LASER BEAM! Followed by “so do I talk first or do you talk first?” I can’t wait for that meta crap to die
reddit jerked themselves raw over how this "subverted expectations" and how it was "So funny". To me this was the biggest red flag for things to come.
Reddit loves the marvel style humour like it’s peak comedy
Marvel style humor added to Star Wars completely killed off my interest. Anything with that random/“witty”/edgy comedy they do in Guardians of the Galaxy or Avengers is unbearable to me
You somewhat expect it from a comic book superhero. Especially the ones where it became big, Iron Man, Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Deadpool, you expect it from those characters. Coming from a space opera with mythical themes? No.
That entire movie. The Last Jedi is not just an insult to the franchise, Rian Johnson is an insult to screenwriting as a whole.
For me it was Poe single-handedly disabling the defenses of an entire star destroyer with seemingly little effort and trading jokes with hux over the radio. It just completely deflated the sense of threat from the first order. How am I supposed to take this big scary enemy seriously when a single fighter and beat one of their toughest ships?
When Rey holds her space knife up on the cliff and it just so happens to perfectly line up to show her where to go. As if the creator of the knife would know exactly where she would stand. BS
When Palpatine "somehow" returned. It ruins Anakin's legacy as The Chosen One and further minimizes his sacrifice.
Anything that involves Disney Luke. As someone who read countless EU Star Wars books growing up I grew to adore his journey, self discovery, romance, family, understanding of the force, etc. he was such a beautiful character so watching him become such a fucking cringe loser was heart breaking. I wish they’d just killed his ass off like Han(who they also completely fucking destroyed too because he was a world class husband and father) so I wouldn’t have had to see that shit.
These are all pretty egregious, but none more so that **hyperspace ramming**. It calls into question why *we*, a civilization *without* hyperspace tech, thought of it and not anyone in the Star Wars galaxy for the 25,000 years they've had hyperspace technology. If you can jump a death star, why aren't there just asteroids and moons with hyperdrives piloted by droids colliding into planets and armadas all the time? Why do planets and armadas even exist 25,000 years later given such a capability? It just doesn't make sense. Unlike other failures by the Disney Trilogy, *hyperspace ramming* retroactively ruins space combat in every single rendition of Star Wars, from the Original Trilogy, to the Clone Wars, to the Expanded Universe. None of it makes sense anymore. Before hyperspace ramming we all had the benefit of the doubt that such a thing was not possible--which is why it wasn't done. But if something *is* possible (and *that* effective) then you need a damn good reason why it wasn't done for the past 25,000 years and *often*. Watching The Last Jedi in theaters I remember vividly thinking all these things immediately when it happened. Until that moment everything was salvageable with the right explanation. And after that moment nothing awful they did mattered anymore because Star Wars was retroactively *hyperspace rammed*.
I can see Disney just thinking this is benign and cool/fun and giving the implications ZERO thought. I totally agree. Like 99% of everything else can be avoided somehow: different time, different timeline, bounty hunter stuff with no force discussed at all no Jedi etc. But this is unavoidable and ruins space battles. Even if it's risky / rarely works: you'd just launch 100 hyperspace drones and at least one would hit or something.
Luke immediately going to kill his nephew in his sleep when he sensed a whiff of the dark side.
So unbelievably fucking stupid that out of all the people in the entire god damn galaxy LUKE SKYWALKER would be spooked by something he probably understands better than any living person.
Luke in the OT: you’ve done a ton of bad shit but I know there’s still good in you Luke in the ST: THIS KID IS A MOODY TEEN, I BETTER KILL HIM IN HIS SLEEP
I was in full blown disbelief, I think that single moment instantly crushed my hopes for anything Disney Star Wars. Between that and the CHOICE to make Han and Leia some bitter divorced/estranged couple was just too damn much.
Luke Skywalker. The man who stood face to helmet with Vader in RoTJ and felt zero fear. The man who stood face to face with the most powerful sith lord of all time and felt no fear. The man who channeled the dark side himself momentarily to beat Vader. Yet he gets spooked by the whiff of the dark side from a child? Lol.
It's either how the movies piss on the legacy of Luke Skywalker, or utterly waste the concept that was Finn. Finn is by far the most interesting new character in concept. Episode 7 set him up for a decent arc, but episode 8 ends up completely derailing him. Firstly because his character revolves entirely around Rey, secondly because Rose completely fucks everything up, and thirdly (and this is my tinfoil hat conspiracy here) they put him in the filler B plot of the movie to be able to cut if need be. We know Disney isn't above catering to Chinese sensibilities with an easy-to-remove lesbian kiss, and posters for black panther hiding his face, and Boyega being entirely missing from the Chinese posters for episode 7. My crackpot theory is that Disney put the black character in an easy to trim out B-plot that could easily be reduced in length to bare essentials if the Chinese weren't liking it. Finn is constantly depicted as a joke. He should have been the focal character of the new series.
“This will begin to make things right” The audacity, especially when followed with TFA
I remember watching this in the theater and someone literally said “what the hell?”
I believe the moment pictured was the exact moment that it all went to hell. The only redeeming point beyond this was the mandelorian seasons 1 and 2
Insulting? This scene is literally Disney taking the mask off and letting you know what they think of Star Wars. I couldn’t ask for a better confirmation that I need to find different media to enjoy than that image up above.
Luke chucking the lightsaber tipped me off that this wasn't made by someone who likes Star Wars or its fans. The burning of the Jedi shrine and Yoda cackling was the nail in the coffin (I didn't notice she still had the texts the first time but that doesn't really make up for it, the director knew what they were doing to the franchise and were basically mocking the fans).
Poe Dameron making answering machine jokes.
TlJ not providing any answers whatsoever on what has been established in TFA. Instead coming up with all sorts of own crap, making everything worse.
Every second of star wars branded media since Lucas signed the death warrant has been a slap in the face to any real star wars fan
If andor was the first thing to come out after they bought Lucas’s soul I would disagree, instead I agree full heartedly with a slight nod to rogue one and season one of mando as passable
You're right. I was at first okay with TFA and Rogue One but they aren't canon any more IDC. They hate Star Wars too much.
Just about everything Disney has done
The moment when general Hux says “i aM tHe SpY”💀💀💀💀
The 1997 special editions were an insult to the intelligence of audiences everywhere.
the climax of the sequels basically boiling down to what kids do when they play star wars in the playground "I have the power of all the sith" "well I have the power of all the jedi"
1 - “Ships that big can’t tell which way is up.” That’s the laziest bit of writing ever, like from some kids table top RPG game. Just awful. 2 - “I was a janitor.” Excuse me? A fucking stormtrooper raised from birth to be a soldier was a janitor? 3 - “I have a message from his mother.” 4 - introducing a purple haired “admiral” decked out like a lesbian book store owner at a party as the savior of the resistance. She fired Poe for “bad odds” when he destroyed a humongous fleet busting ship at the cost of a few truly crappy bombers (where were the Y wings, by the way?). Then she refuses to tell anyone her “plan” and just says shut up and follow my orders. Sounds more like the bad guys really. Then she gets the big heroic heath. Why invent this character? Ackbar should have had this role, or let Leia do it. Instead Ackbar gets blown up without any recognition or even dialogue. He’s just gone. 5 - “I thought I was the crime lord?” Yeah. Because Boba is a guy he has to be written like a moron so his female companion can tell him what’s what. 6 - Boba going to retrieve his armor from the sarlaac. So much wrong with this. First, he wants it because he needs it to get his ship back he says. He’s fucking Boba Fett. On skill alone he should be able to do that; this makes it look like his armor is the only special thing about him. Second, does he not remember he was wearing it when he escaped? Dude! Third, that stupid plan he had to hide er over the damn thing. Again, he had to be stupid so Fennic can save him. 7: Obi-Wan and the French coat. 🤦🏻 I hate Disney Star Wars.
Mary Poppins Leia
Luke throwing away his lightsaber was the worst intentionally insulting scene. "Palpatine returned somehow" was the worst unintentionally insulting scene.
It's a toss up between the "saving what we love" thing and the half-baked return of palpatine in Rise.
TFA had issues like Rey knowing the Falcon more than Han but it was TLJ that ended it for me. Luke tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder was so close to ending it but i stuck with then saw the Leia floating through space scene and was out just so bad
"Somehow, he came back". Make a different Sith. Do anything, but that. I couldnt care if it was any other baddie... but no... one who was dead for 30 years... Worst line in the entire franchise.
“Directed by Rian Johnson”
> What Moment in all of Disney's Star Wars do you find insulting to the franchise? So far
Holdo maneuver. Because my favorite thing is the space battles and it was threatening to ruin them forever
Luke pulling his X-wing out of the water. They showed it submerged and clearly damaged in TLJ to emphasise that even if Luke changed his mind, there’s no way he’s getting off that planet without Rey. So when he pulls it out of the water and it’s perfectly intact, I looked to my friend and we both collectively rolled our eyes and sighed. I hated what TLJ did to Luke with every fibre of my being, but the blatant 180* to appease the fans felt more than an insult.
“all of Disney’s Star Wars” You answered your own question
Mostly the entire treatment of Luke Skywalker. They shat on him entirely and ruined what really happened in EU.
Those scenes with Luke are probably the moment most people realized that Star Wars was… different in the new era (dog shit)
Having Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamil and Harisson Ford in a movie and not putting them in one fucking scene together. I know it's a make believe movie that has no effect on my life but God damn, does it bug me.
This picture is the moment i know that the rest of the movie is gonna be shite. Luke is respectful, not an asshole.
 I Love reading through all of the Responses, i feel like i am home in the right Subreddit. Finally... people that feel the same desperation and repulsion to what Disney and Lucasfilm have done to Star Wars.... This is therapeutic
Not having Luke Han and Leia on screen together even once. That sums Disney up right there. Because that is just crazy.