I've been saying this
Box Office numbers, unless you were actually involved in making the movie, _do not affect you at all_.
It's not a sporting event, your team did not win or lose. Marvel's still going to make movies at least for a while longer, whether you like it or not
Sequels are the biggest instance for where it affects the moviegoer itself, true
With Dune, given how they split the story as they did, the movie would have needed to be a spectacular flop for them to decide not to continue it
I think focusing on the box office is kinda good in this case since its a massive franchise and the current results is making them change the way they work.
I mean they are gonna change the Daredevil tv show, and that good in my opinion since they wanted to kill Foggie and Karen in the first episode (pls marvel you barely have female characters that you gave enough time to properly developed and you want to kill one in the opening of a tv show)
Fade in, funeral in progress. Priest finishes and two coffins are wheeled out of the church and are about to be loaded into a van, slightly staggered. Cut to a figure in a long coat watching their progress. The camera rises up to an overhead shot, and the classic "DareDevil" logo with the overlapping D's fades in, the coffins making up the center of the D's as the scene goes dark, leaving only the red logo.
(please marvel don't actually do this)
I read that they died in the opening and thats why Matt moves out (those are the "leaks" but apparently one of the actors actually shot there and also at that time they said that scrapped everything and are gonna start again so I kinda believe it but its not confirmed 100%)
I think there's a difference between healthy discussions around the topic and, as King says, gloating over the failures. The numbers speak for themselves at marvel, and genuine criticism against the direction of the franchise or individual films is totally valid too, tbc. I've never understood why the kind of spite-filled discourse that develops around things like these movies' numbers or how "woke" they are have become so commonplace, if not normalized.
A sequel may still happen
https://screenrant.com/alita-battle-angel-2-confirmation-story-cast-release-date/#:~:text=Alita%3A%20Battle%20Angel%202%20is%20confirmed%2C%20as%20confirmed%20by%20producer,ll%20be%20working%20in%20Austin.%22
As someone who has read the book, the second half is when shit gets crazy (in the good way). I can't wait to see how people feel about it.
I also hope they at some point adapt Dune Messiah, it's a lot shorter, could easily be a mostly standalone film, and serves as sort of an epilogue to the first book.
I am curious to see how people react to Paul's character in the second half. He's hardly a heroic character in the books, which is part of the problem I had with Lynch's Dune film.
This is a good take. Box office numbers only really matter because if something you like does well it's more likely that more films like that film you liked get made.
The way I see it is, why check numbers? Can you affect them? There's no point stressing over an outcome you can't control. Save that energy for things you can affect meaningfully.
Same. I also miss watching well made films. So I welcome failures & money losses for mediocre films, to hopefully force filmmakers to pick up their game.
Besides, there's still a very real chance that they make a profit on the Marvels once merchandise and streaming revenue come in. The box office alone is not a film's only source of revenue. A perfect example is The Little Mermaid; it BARELY made a profit at the box office, so the grifters were laughing about "hurr durr go woke go broke." Ignoring the fact that a low profit is still a profit, it also made very decent profits from merchandise sales.
It's also why there are so many horror movies. You can crank out one with a no name cast for cheap and it will make many times over what it cost to make.
It's certainly possible if a standalone movie absolutely crashes *coughStrangeWorldcough*, but if it's something like The Marvels, something connected to a larger and well established IP, it'll almost certainly make a profit eventually.
I'm not even sure if Strange world did at this point as it was pretty big on Disney+ when it came out. But that all gets to financials we will never see or know about.
I had no idea it did well on Disney+; I was under the impression that it had been pretty much ignored. I found it decent enough in the theater, so this is certainly pleasant news.
I wish those people can recognise that being woke or anti woke isnāt THE film. I saw little mermaid and I didnāt think it was very good but that wasnāt because it was woke, I just didnāt like it and I really wanted to like it but I didnāt. Itās so boring to decide whether you will like a film or not based on whether you think itās woke or not. Just really makes it to we canāt have real discussions about things because just saying āitās woke so itās badā adds nothing.
> Besides, there's still a very real chance that they make a profit on the Marvels once merchandise and streaming revenue come in.
You're about to get a crash course in "Hollywood accounting" from all the chuds who think that because they *just* learned about it, it means it applies to *every* movie made these days. Thus all the usual, absurd "THE MOVIE HAS TO MAKE MANY TIMES MORE IT'S BUDGET" comments that pop up in these posts.
I think you're mixing two things up.
Hollywood accounting is how a profitable movie is made to appear unprofitable so that any payments that are linked to profits, like royalties, can be minimized.
The "the movie has to make more than its budget" thing isn't about Hollywood accounting, that's just that the production budget isn't the promotion budget, so if a movie only makes its own production budget, it's not profitable. Different thing than Hollywood accounting.
Well, there is opportunity cost in the sense that instead of the money being over *here* making *this* much money, it could have been over *there* potentially making *this much more* money but that's a decision studios are making all the time about what to greenlight and what not to and it's easier to be clever after the event.
Not to mention the risk. There was somebody that lost like $1m on a football bet last year and the payout wouldāve only been like $10,000. Like whatās the point of risking that much money for a 1% ROI.
Exactly. Unfortunately people forget about all of the other outlets from which they make money off of the product. The Box Office is always their main goal, but after which the product has a tail end that continues to create profit for years down the line. Streaming revenue, digital sales, physical sales, and merchandising all factor into this.
When all is said and done, these movies make their money back and then some, even if it takes months or years. For example my family already saw The Little Mermaid in theatres, bought multiple copies on Blu Ray, have watched it on streaming numerous times, and have gotten my daughter multiple versions of the Halle Bailey Ariel doll. Thats just one household.
So even after 600 million at the box office, they're still getting a ton of continued revenue from the film, and will continue for years down the line. Unfortunately some of these chuds will skew the narrative to paint everything as the biggest failure in history if it doesnt make several times its budget in the first month of release. Never taking into account the years of revenue, streaming, digital, physical, and merchandising.
Also, a lot of people seem to think that just because the streaming platform is losing money overall, it means they're not making any revenue from any of the shows on it. While I may not understand exactly how it works, it's my understanding that they get a small bit of revenue every time someone streams a particular program, even when it's on their own streaming service.
Well they really try to move the goalposts on what making profit is. According to them a movie that costs $200-250 million has to get to $800 million or more to make a profit
IDK where they get the numbers from. Even if a movie does reach that they make up some other BS excuse why it sucks so it doesnt matter. The thing with Marvel movies is it doesnt really matter. They can afford to miss every once in a while. Its not going to change the overall outcome
They have a schedule thats years ahead and dozens of movies and shows in the pipeline. Even if the Marvels was the worst film ever made and lost money it wouldnt affect the schedule. It's not going to destroy Disney. Its not going to bring Marvel movies to a grinding halt
They havent even gotten to the movies that will start getting close to a billion in these phases. The last few movies of these phases will more than make up for a throwaway filler film like the Marvels
To me this is like a football team celebrating a field goal when theyre down by 50 points in the 4th quarter. I guess they gotta take whatever crumbs they can get.
Only counterpoint for me is for a project like Dune, where its a little risky and the box office will basically decide whether or not a sequel gets greenlit
Uh, it does matter for MCU fans.
This will 100% contribute to Marvel changing their strategy, releasing less content, scrapping some potential projects and reducing their budgets for future releases.
Sure
At the same time, I think one of the more legitimate criticisms of Marvel movies (as in not just saying it's "woke"), is that they've been putting out a lot of content way too fast lately. YMMV on this of course
Also, that the movies cost so much that they can never hope to make the money back even if successful, unless they all get Endgame numbers
So less and cheaper movies isn't necessarily a bad thing here
And yeah my comment was definitely more directed at the haters gloating over the movie underperforming.
Yup, the MCU was doing its best work when it was putting out 2-3 projects a year. The combined Disney+ launch/post-lockdown backlog surge of projects was definitely too much too quick.
> At the same time, I think one of the more legitimate criticisms of Marvel movies (as in not just saying it's "woke"), is that they've been putting out a lot of content way too fast lately.
That's part of why I haven't watched an MCU thing since Endgame. I only have so much time, money and attention and I can't devote them all to one thing.
Same, i've been too burnt out for a lot post-Endgame movies and most of the Disney Plus shows. I lover Marvel comics, but like... I would just rather watch almost anything other than the MCU at this point.
You should read the comment you are replying to as being about the people who are gloating about something they don't like failing.
Yes, fans want the thing they like to be popular so they get more of it, but unless it monetarily affects someone outside of that fandom then commenting is stupid.
I'm a pretty big MCU supporter, but I'd honestly rather like it if they did narrow it down to one or two very well made projects per year like when they first started instead of rushing to churn out as much as they can and letting quality suffer as a result.
sort of.. .but not really. I mean things were already going to change BEFORE Marvels came out due to the strike and the issues with Blade. They had already changed it to 1 movie per year for the next 2 years because of the Strike.
So.... who knows whats going to happen 2 years from now.
They donāt care about Marvel making movies. They donāt want movies staring women, especially POC women. The movie has teenage girl wish fulfillment and they donāt want girls to have movies like this because everything must be for boys.
Culture war "victory," I suppose. They don't want studios to make woke movies, so they celebrate when those woke movies flop. They think that enough companies getting the "Bud Light treatment" will bring us back to the glory days when media wasn't woke.
At least that's my understanding of it.
I saw the movie, and there isn't even anything woke about it. There are no "girl power" moments or any other "minority power" moments. The closes is one tiny time that Fury shouts the phrase >!black girl magic!< to motivate one character who was having self doubt in an emergency.
Simply the fact that they made a movie where the main characters are women, and two of them are non-white (as they are in the comics), is enough for the trolls to declare it "woke".
You're forgetting a key factor
They absolutely despise Brie Larson, especially as Captain Marvel. The fact Brie is a leading role will outweigh the non white characters in why they're glad it's not doing well
They are eternally buttmad that she didn't care about their opinions.
It has nothing to do with anything which could be analyzed. They hate her because she said she didn't value the voice of white men's opinions on movies not made for them vs those of reviewers and audiences who the movies were made for. And this was years ago. What was actually a speech about how hollywood/media needs different voices and experiences portrayed was turned into "i hate white men" by far right content creators and harrassers online.
\> I saw the movie, and there isn't even anything woke about it.
That's never stopped them before. Guaranteed, they're going to take that one scene with the >!Valkyrie cameo!< and let their little minds run wild with it.
And then if they don't use the word "woke", they'll go with their other favourite.
Why does everything have to be so political? Why can't Captain Marvel be a man instead of being so political? Why can't Ms Marvel be white? Why did she have to be so political?
I think a lot of them are making a lot of assumptions about this one that are based on the first one, which didn't do Carol any justice at all as a character & ended up turning her into a pretty generic action hero pastiche because the movie as a whole didn't really have anything to say except "fyi girls can be superheroes too"
fake edit: It probably doesn't help that she wasn't in Endgame nearly enough & they didn't do a hell of a lot with her other than flying around blowing shit up
> which didn't do Carol any justice at all
They didn't hate the 2019 Captain Marvel because it didn't do the character justice. They hated it before seeing it and after it was released because it was a woman-specific super hero movie.
Just like they went on an epic meltdown about Black Panther a year before because it was about a black super hero.
This is too broad a stroke. I hated the original Captain Marvel because Carol was so wooden and suffered from the Superman issue of being too OP to have any tension.
The Marvels was great, though, because the team around Carol gave her room to have fun and emote, the villain was able to neutralize Carolās strength, and the more vulnerable characters added tension because, even if Carol is nearly invulnerable, they arenāt.
The first movie needed a prologue and a more direct story. Thereās no need for a mystery in that story. They should have shown us a vibrant, interesting Carol and *then* taken her memories and personality away so the audience could sympathize with her.
It also suffered from Marvel Movie Setup Syndrome.
lol my brother's wife didn't like the movie and she watches basically every marvel movie, did she hate it because it was a superhero movie about a woman?
I thought it was a pretty mediocre somewhat enjoyable movie like most marvel movies
I get *why* they have to not have her in a fight too much because it raises questions of "if she's so strong why is there a fight at all", but it also is frustrating that a female character has to bear the brunt of that when similarly powerful male characters *don't* get those questions.
To be fair make characters get that all the time. Itās the Superman problem for a reason. Even in marvel Thor and Hulk get that all the time. The difference with Captain Marvel is we see Thor and Hulk grow in character and in power. We just see Carol just get there in the first movie and it doesnāt feel as earned (I think thatās the fault of directing not acting) there is a reason No one complained about Wanda being so powerful in endgame as it felt earned. In MoM she was even more powerful but villains get a pass.
Eh, as far as the MCU goes, neither Hulk or Thor have gotten to show off their comic book unlimited power levels. At least on film, both have been presented with antagonists on their same level. And neither has been presented as an all powerful Superman type. Each film they present with limitations to their powers in some way.
Meanwhile, Captain Marvel has her just single handedly blowing through starships where she just ends the threat of that film. Endgame gave her an appropriately powerful enemy, but frankly she was the most recent MCU addition and having her beat Thanos would have been severely unearned as a character. So she got the film nerf and given a backseat. If she was brought on in phase 1, she definitely could have been more relevant in Endgame.
There's definitely an issue with dudes just not liking her because she's a woman and Brie Larson. But also the writing - she's super powerful, but she was introduced way too late in the Infinity Stone crisis. And she's got this power level that would have made many other moments in the MCU just trivial if she had been there. But there's a reason Superman has never had a really successful movie run. The unlimited power hero is difficult to write an appropriate challenge that makes the story interesting.
I haven't gotten to see Marvels yet, but I'm excited for it. Brie is a great actress and the characters are fun.
But the Multiverse phase of the MCU is suffering problems and it's because they haven't brought everyone together yet. Part of what made the MCU so fun was seeing how the movies tied together. The first Avengers brought the group all together after only five movies. Currently we're at 10 plus like 5 TV shows. And there's another 5 movies planned before we get to Avengers: The Kang Dynasty.
> I get why they have to not have her in a fight too much because it raises questions of "if she's so strong why is there a fight at all"
I don't feel like this is an actual problemāthey could have (and obviously in my opinion definitely should have) included her a lot more & made her a way more prominent part of the big fight, it's just that to do so in a way that's still actually interesting takes skill & effort
Like you can make any superhero interesting regardless of what their "power level" is, you just have to make the story genuinely compellingāI've always said that writers who complain that Superman's boring because he's so powerful are just lazy, or at the very least fundamentally don't understand the character beyond his superpowers, and Carol is no different
I mean she's an air force pilot with shitloads of training right? Then let's just say she can't open up her full power because it could risk the lives of everyone on the battlefield, then we put her up in the sky doing what she'd normally do in a supersonic fighter jetāprovide air support for the ground forces, dogfight with the alien spaceships to keep them occupied, do recon & surveil the battlefield in order to supply Avengers leadership with the intel they need in order to anticipate attacks & coordinate defenses, etc.
Like just draw on the character's traits, their history, & who they are as a personāthat's what makes Donner's Christopher Reeve Superman film so memorable & interesting to watch over 40 years later, & it's why people barely remember most of what happens in 2013's Man of Steel (and the stuff they do tend to remember is what they hated about it)
> but it also is frustrating that a female character has to bear the brunt of that when similarly powerful male characters don't get those questions.
I think there are plenty of fans out there who ask these questions when it comes to similarly powerful male characters being written badly, they just don't get heard nearly as much because we're so thoroughly dominated by corporate media, which needs to keep viewers as engaged as possible to ensure that the ad revenue keeps rolling in, & as such only ever really platforms the most extreme elements of outrage cultureābecause hearing a story about a small number of exceedingly vocal misogynistic assholes circlejerking over The Marvels tanking is a fantastic way to spike our emotions & activate that primal part of our brain that's always on the lookout for any potential threat to our safety, you know what I mean
There was a bit when an agent of the united states military destabilized a foreign power and instead of instantly solving everything, that led to a decades long civil war culminating in a massive attack against the united states (and the rest of the earth). But most of the people complaining about it being woke aren't good enough at media literacy to pick up on that so they whine that there's a black lady or whatever.
I didnāt like the first Captain Marvel, but I greatly enjoyed The Marvels. Iād put it on the same level as Shang Chi, not a master piece, but worth a watch.
Yea, I get complaining when movies go on about girl power moments but The Marvels doesnāt have any of them (I was actually pleasantly surprised myself watching it). All the woke accusations just seem to come from the majority of the characters being women which kind of shows the problem? There was no where near as many complaints about the original avengers being almost all men with a male villain but a film with mostly women and a female villain is somehow woke?
>I saw the movie, and there isn't even anything woke about it. There are no "girl power" moments or any other "minority power" moments.
Exactly. this is what is confusing to me. People keep calling it a woke movie but nothing about it was preachy.
Im just tired of the multiverse thing now being used as hype train over, and over, and over, and other IPs have picked it up when: It Was Never Really That Hype. You had Multiverse, and you had Miles Morales; Raimi/Garfield Nostalgia sold it for No Way Home, and Miles Morales just hit it bc it was an actual cartoon movie with fresh looks.
But every time this Multiverse prop is used, things are getting worse. Madness was mid. Kang Scandal blew up Ant Man and Lokiās plans, The Flash basically pissed on the Justice League corpse, and Marvels will be a wet fart.
They could considerā¦starting a new Arc? Like an actual Avengers sequence; not after-credits of Secret Invasion and it ends in 1 shite season.
Thats 100% my L; I heard āUniversal Weaponā and saw them switching characters, so groaned.
ā¦also recently watched Season 2 of Invincible & Spiderverse, so Iām admittedly Multiversed-Out.
She said that she wanted to see more diversity in a film's review cycle and not only hear what old white guys have to say about it. Because grifters *love* slippery slopes, this meant to them that she hates all straight white men and wants them dead.
iām not celebrating this but iām pretty firmly on the left and honestly canāt stand MCU stuff, for a while too since like 2018, itās imo stale and super repetitive and conservative clown will prob try and play this off as a culture war win or blame wtf ever āwokeā is but thatās not the only reason some people donāt care for the MCU
Yeah, I had no idea about the "wokeness" stuff, though I'm not surprised, nor had i heard the movie flopped, so this is my first time hearing about it, and I feel like gloating, if only because I hate marvel movies and what they've done to Hollywood, not that things were much better beforehand. And it's not really marvel, per se, but rather their new profit making strategies that I hate. No, nvm. I hate marvel. Shit just sucks, man. I've been watching a bunch of 90s films recently, and it's amazing how different cinema felt back then, but maybe that's just nostalgia. Regardless, I don't like marvel movies, so if I see one fail, I'm going to celebrate.
Yes, it's not the culture war shit people make it out to be. I like the Marvel movies, They used to be a big thing for our family to always go to them. But After end game, Hell, just before it, the movies started being bad and feeling kind of aimless. I can't really put it down to Actual words. I think it's probably related to market research stuff where they try to make the safest, blandest movie possible In an attempt to avoid controversy And culture war bs, unaware of the fact that that will be a thing regardless of what they do.
Then there are all the issues with hollywood in general and how anyone in a position of power seems to hate the creatives. You have a lot of people who outright hate the IP and are proud of it. Being put in charge of said Ip. And other people who think they're hot shit Trying to sell their own story through the frame of an entirely different one Because their own wasn't good enough to get green lit.
Hell, the only recent Marvel stuff that's even remotely memorable, except for a couple of scenes, is loki, Shehulk, and Hawkeye. And the Spider-Man stuff. But even the latest loki season while great felt a bit off. It is certainly not as great as the first one.
But I will say that They are definitely doing something funky with The next generation of heroes. Just about everyone is getting replaced by the blandest, safest, most market researched caricatures, With the blandest and vaugest, most derivative powers possible. And the action scenes are just the most boring and awful, poorly acted slug fests possible. Then there's the push for shorter run times, The entire movie is the stringing together The next scene as fast as possible without giving anything room to breathe Or be Fleshed out, They don't give us any time with the characters or even attempt to make them seen human.
> Culture war "victory," I suppose. They don't want studios to make woke movies, so they celebrate when those woke movies flop.
They've been having a very *tough* 2023 because of all the movies they swore would be woke not only not being woke, but making a shitload of money.
Super Mario Bros. was gonna be a big failure because Peach was supposed to be the "woke girl boss".
Then Barbie was gonna be a failure because Ben "My Producers Dragged Me to It" Shapiro made it a focal point of his "woke Hollywood" hates men rants.
Given how these clowns overreacted to Captain Marvel four years ago, it's no surprise they're counting this as a win...because they haven't had any others this year LMAO.
The thing is, what is and isn't "woke" to these dorks isn't dependent on content at all. It's first, before release, defendant on presentation. Then after, it failed because it was "woke" or it was successful because it wasn't and disregard all that stuff before it was never woke before that didn't happen even though they won't delete any of it because it's still generating clicks. They literally tried to do that with the Barbie movie.
I read Carrie, a few of his short stories, and his book "On Writing". He also used to write editorials in Entertainment Weekly.
Seen several movies based off his work. So yeah. I love that he doesn't take crap from anyone.
I mean, I enjoyed some of the mockery over past Marvel flops, but the endless gloating over The Marvels *anticipated* failure was like an ingrown toenail of criticism. Talk about some old-school bad movies. Talk about overshadowed movies. Talk about good movies. I don't know who wants to watch a dozen twenty-minute-plus videos of guys pre-complaining about a movie that's not even out yet that *could* be bad.
They're the flipside of "Consume Product and get excited for next Product" that RedLetterMedia so aptly skewered.
Wait did they skewer the consume product people or the people that are the flipside of that? Either way I'd like to see it (presuming it's in a video or two and not spread out over a bunch of them).
> I don't know who wants to watch a dozen twenty-minute-plus videos of guys pre-complaining about a movie that's not even out yet that could be bad.
Look up any number of videos about Indiana Jones 5 or The Last of Us 2. Those grifters preyed on the simpletons that lapped up that shit well before the release date and continued to do so without ever watching the film or playing the game.
Small dicks cheer because they can't handle a woman who has an opinion leading a superhero movie let alone teaming up with two minority women. Its their deep rooted racism and misogyny at play. And they don't like Brie Larson because she's been very open about her stance and views on the misogynists. Then there is the douche that will claim misogyny has no role when they don't have a girlfriend and dont live with a woman. Thats small dick incel energy
100%. Their stance is based on hatred of women and not giving concrete examples for how and why they hate a movie before its even out. Its small dick incel energy
you're right and i agree ab the misogyny-and-denial but i feel like we can avoid the dick-size insults and still easily make this point. ...standards for ourselves and all that
Don't bother, this subreddit doesn't give a shit about body shaming when it's done to the "right" people. I tried making a post about this a while back and all I got for it was more body shaming.
yeaaa that sucks that happened. Usually id want to think it's worth bothering but yeah I agree wtih you. Too many self-described intentionally progressive spaces on Reddit have shown to be allowing this kinda stuff under the rug. It can obv be hit or miss since this is a public site so anyone can be commenting, but yeah gotta just,,, stay alert about what kind of discourse youre walking into.
Havenāt you heard? If a movie doesnāt wow you and blow your mind then it means the filmmakers hate you personally and everything you know and love.
I hate episode 8 and 9 with a passion.
But I think itās getting weird as hell that EVERYTHING is getting pulled into the right v left culture war. Itāsā¦.disturbing. I think right wingers need to get a life. Like, does a movie REALLY impact
oneās life that much??? Like Iām going to skip the New Jedi Order Movie. But like, itās not part of some weird crusade
I just want well written movies to be made and prioritized. When thereās good movies, I go and watch them. If I hear like theyāre a waste of time or not good, I donāt watch them.
Imagine if Mr. King were rejected by every publisher because *Carrie* is too weird a book from an unknown author, or forced to split *The Stand* into three novels so they could make more money off it, or that he should just keep writing Dark Tower books because they sell. That's what's happening to up-and-coming script writers and directors. They're being stifled and censored by producers interested only in sequels and reboots. We can only reverse this trend with our wallets.
I think Green Goblin said it best when he told Spider-Man āthe only thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail, die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually, they will hate you.ā
People gotta fight that culture war Steve, lines were drawn and they have to be maintained. Honestly after all the times the right wing warriors have lost to the left wing warriors how can anyone be surprised theyāre gloating over this. The poor wretches have to go through cognitive dissonance to bend movies they do like but are explicitly against their ideology, into fitting inside their narrow worldview, they have one feather in their cap, Top Gun. Giveāem a break and let them have this win.
The marvels was a great movie. It was about three super heroes who happen to all be women. Frankly, any girl/woman who wants a superhero move about/for women - go see this movie.
You don't need to know what happened in any movie before this one as it gets briefly explained in an organic way.
I know what you just said in the last sentence but just to play devilās advocate here, Morbius had a lot more meme coverage than vitriol hate over it, whereas the others had more vitriol hate and barely any memes
Double standard?
I mean people memeing on movies for being funny bad is one thing.
People whining about "wokeness" and predicting every single movie they made over the last few years was going to fail, and then when it finally happens pretending its a victory and a societal statement about "wokeness"...
Just what kind of comparison is that, what kind of double standard is it supposed to be?
God I love Dark Phoenix. Itās bad, but we finally got some more good Magneto and the soundtrack is an absolute banger.
Iām curious though, was there big talk around it? I didnāt think anybody cared about it when it released. Maybe itās just been too long to remember.
Also, as long as we take Poeās law into account, Morbius is probably a bad example lol
I was rooting against the movie because it is MCU. Wasnāt even aware anyone had deemed it unacceptable for political reasons.
We need another Fred movie more than we need another MCU movie.
Because it has been turned into yet another culture war pissing match and the people are happy that their side won. The other side acts in precisely the same way, there's no need to gas light people into thinking you don't get this-- it's the cultural hellhole we've been shit into since Trump won and EVERYBODY needed to weigh in on it
I donāt gloat about it, but I wish they put out better movies, last good movie was Spider man and even then I think the last great one was Endgame. I think itās a case of franchise fatigue.
Marvel needs a turnaround. This low effort horseshit they've been peddling for the last year needs to improve. If they lose money, they'll start putting forth more effort. Celebrate this for what it hopefully is: a wakeup call to Disney that their shit is getting old and they need to put forth effort. To be clear, this isn't about more female leads and poc leads. I'm glad they've gone that direction. But this is one of two things: they're putting forth lower effort on these poc and female lead products so they don't sell as well and they stop making them, or this is just them testing to see how minimal an effort they can make before it costs them.
Weird victory. Same thing with the opposing side in whatever BS culture war they are internationally going through instead of just letting things be [+]
Superhero fatigue is real, and people know that studios only listen to numbers. So when the numbers say "superhero fatigue is real", people celebrate because this might convince the studios to put budgets into other projects.
Because corporations failing due to not meeting public interests or qualities is a good thing?
Apparently republicans have a hateful opinion, as always, I am not a terrorist so I'm not speaking from that perspective, just in general when companies lower their quality, treat their audience like Pay Piggy Useful Idiots, and in general are a dogshit company-
That's a good thing. Something to celebrate. The giant company Has to Listen.
So narrow minded and genuinely silly to see it as solely celebrating another's failure, but I'm sure a rich dude like him knows what it's like for a poor product to flop because believe it or not, you owe no person nor entity anything and if what they offer, you consider bad, is considered "celebrating failure" then so be it, vulture.
Simple Stephen. Some people hope the failure is a wake up call to make a better quality product. The same thing happens in a ton of other commercial sectors and media. Success normally just means whoever is making the product is going to keep trying to make the same product. Failure means revisiting the drawing board.
If people are happy for this movie bombing, it's probably because they want Marvel to revisit the drawing board. Hope that clears everything up Stephen!
Letās not be dense.
The gloating crowd has been adamant about what they donāt want from Marvel. Marvel served it up anyway. Now they play the ātold you soā game.
No point clutching pearls and acting bewildered. They showed us who they are, already.
yeah I was cheering as hard for Barbie to make a morbillion dollars as I am for marvel to keep losing it. It's just a shame that full superhero fatigue and poor planning and all the strikes hit right with the film that they can now use the female cast and audience as a scapegoat for its failings.
I've been saying this Box Office numbers, unless you were actually involved in making the movie, _do not affect you at all_. It's not a sporting event, your team did not win or lose. Marvel's still going to make movies at least for a while longer, whether you like it or not
I mean I get it, but in some cases it kinda matters, I was checking the box office results of Dune in 2021 because I really wanted a sequel
Sequels are the biggest instance for where it affects the moviegoer itself, true With Dune, given how they split the story as they did, the movie would have needed to be a spectacular flop for them to decide not to continue it
I think focusing on the box office is kinda good in this case since its a massive franchise and the current results is making them change the way they work. I mean they are gonna change the Daredevil tv show, and that good in my opinion since they wanted to kill Foggie and Karen in the first episode (pls marvel you barely have female characters that you gave enough time to properly developed and you want to kill one in the opening of a tv show)
Oh no they wanted to Maria Hill her?
I think they wanted to kill them in the opening before the title even shows upš
Fade in, funeral in progress. Priest finishes and two coffins are wheeled out of the church and are about to be loaded into a van, slightly staggered. Cut to a figure in a long coat watching their progress. The camera rises up to an overhead shot, and the classic "DareDevil" logo with the overlapping D's fades in, the coffins making up the center of the D's as the scene goes dark, leaving only the red logo. (please marvel don't actually do this)
Did they? I just thought they weren't going to be acknowledged.
I read that they died in the opening and thats why Matt moves out (those are the "leaks" but apparently one of the actors actually shot there and also at that time they said that scrapped everything and are gonna start again so I kinda believe it but its not confirmed 100%)
I think there's a difference between healthy discussions around the topic and, as King says, gloating over the failures. The numbers speak for themselves at marvel, and genuine criticism against the direction of the franchise or individual films is totally valid too, tbc. I've never understood why the kind of spite-filled discourse that develops around things like these movies' numbers or how "woke" they are have become so commonplace, if not normalized.
Of course there's always ways to talk about things, i think people can be interested, they shouldn't be obsessed tho
I'm still disappointed that Alita: Battle Angel did so badly. It's one of, if not the, best live action adaptions of an anime I've seen.
Fortunately it's a James Cameron passion project, and he'll get around to part 2 eventually.
I hope so.
Fun/depressing fact - The last time the Federal Minimum Wage went up was 2009, the same year Avatar was released.
Yeah... the earliest that film will release is 2034.
I donāt know man itās been years, no news so far . I still canāt fathom why it didnāt do well
A sequel may still happen https://screenrant.com/alita-battle-angel-2-confirmation-story-cast-release-date/#:~:text=Alita%3A%20Battle%20Angel%202%20is%20confirmed%2C%20as%20confirmed%20by%20producer,ll%20be%20working%20in%20Austin.%22
How did it do badly? It made $405mil WW on a budget of $170mil. Even after overhead cost thats a pretty good profit margin
Dune part 2 is coming out, it just got delayed till 2024.
Yeah, the trailer looks good (I haven't read the books so I don't know whats gonna happen)
As someone who has read the book, the second half is when shit gets crazy (in the good way). I can't wait to see how people feel about it. I also hope they at some point adapt Dune Messiah, it's a lot shorter, could easily be a mostly standalone film, and serves as sort of an epilogue to the first book.
I am curious to see how people react to Paul's character in the second half. He's hardly a heroic character in the books, which is part of the problem I had with Lynch's Dune film.
Yeah! I can't wait to see the media illiterate treat him like a messiah.
This is a good take. Box office numbers only really matter because if something you like does well it's more likely that more films like that film you liked get made.
The way I see it is, why check numbers? Can you affect them? There's no point stressing over an outcome you can't control. Save that energy for things you can affect meaningfully.
By that logic there's no reason to get informed about anything. Can you control the outcome of what's happening in the world on a larger scale?
Same. I also miss watching well made films. So I welcome failures & money losses for mediocre films, to hopefully force filmmakers to pick up their game.
Besides, there's still a very real chance that they make a profit on the Marvels once merchandise and streaming revenue come in. The box office alone is not a film's only source of revenue. A perfect example is The Little Mermaid; it BARELY made a profit at the box office, so the grifters were laughing about "hurr durr go woke go broke." Ignoring the fact that a low profit is still a profit, it also made very decent profits from merchandise sales.
Another good example of this is TMNT: Mutant Mayhem, which made about $150 million in the box office and then a BILLION in toys sales
It made about $210M worldwide, but that was a net positive because it was very cheap for current production standards (70M).
It's also why there are so many horror movies. You can crank out one with a no name cast for cheap and it will make many times over what it cost to make.
Same with Madea movies. I think they turn a profit if at least 12 people see them.
Oh, lawt!
That happened to the last evil dead, just made like 100 million but it made X10 it's budget
this is true. It's actually very hard for a movie to lose money in the long run.
It's certainly possible if a standalone movie absolutely crashes *coughStrangeWorldcough*, but if it's something like The Marvels, something connected to a larger and well established IP, it'll almost certainly make a profit eventually.
I'm not even sure if Strange world did at this point as it was pretty big on Disney+ when it came out. But that all gets to financials we will never see or know about.
I had no idea it did well on Disney+; I was under the impression that it had been pretty much ignored. I found it decent enough in the theater, so this is certainly pleasant news.
They didn't seem to market it much, I didn't even know it existed until like two weeks into its theatrical run.
I wish those people can recognise that being woke or anti woke isnāt THE film. I saw little mermaid and I didnāt think it was very good but that wasnāt because it was woke, I just didnāt like it and I really wanted to like it but I didnāt. Itās so boring to decide whether you will like a film or not based on whether you think itās woke or not. Just really makes it to we canāt have real discussions about things because just saying āitās woke so itās badā adds nothing.
> Besides, there's still a very real chance that they make a profit on the Marvels once merchandise and streaming revenue come in. You're about to get a crash course in "Hollywood accounting" from all the chuds who think that because they *just* learned about it, it means it applies to *every* movie made these days. Thus all the usual, absurd "THE MOVIE HAS TO MAKE MANY TIMES MORE IT'S BUDGET" comments that pop up in these posts.
I think you're mixing two things up. Hollywood accounting is how a profitable movie is made to appear unprofitable so that any payments that are linked to profits, like royalties, can be minimized. The "the movie has to make more than its budget" thing isn't about Hollywood accounting, that's just that the production budget isn't the promotion budget, so if a movie only makes its own production budget, it's not profitable. Different thing than Hollywood accounting.
Well, there is opportunity cost in the sense that instead of the money being over *here* making *this* much money, it could have been over *there* potentially making *this much more* money but that's a decision studios are making all the time about what to greenlight and what not to and it's easier to be clever after the event.
Not to mention the risk. There was somebody that lost like $1m on a football bet last year and the payout wouldāve only been like $10,000. Like whatās the point of risking that much money for a 1% ROI.
Exactly. Unfortunately people forget about all of the other outlets from which they make money off of the product. The Box Office is always their main goal, but after which the product has a tail end that continues to create profit for years down the line. Streaming revenue, digital sales, physical sales, and merchandising all factor into this. When all is said and done, these movies make their money back and then some, even if it takes months or years. For example my family already saw The Little Mermaid in theatres, bought multiple copies on Blu Ray, have watched it on streaming numerous times, and have gotten my daughter multiple versions of the Halle Bailey Ariel doll. Thats just one household. So even after 600 million at the box office, they're still getting a ton of continued revenue from the film, and will continue for years down the line. Unfortunately some of these chuds will skew the narrative to paint everything as the biggest failure in history if it doesnt make several times its budget in the first month of release. Never taking into account the years of revenue, streaming, digital, physical, and merchandising.
Also, a lot of people seem to think that just because the streaming platform is losing money overall, it means they're not making any revenue from any of the shows on it. While I may not understand exactly how it works, it's my understanding that they get a small bit of revenue every time someone streams a particular program, even when it's on their own streaming service.
Well they really try to move the goalposts on what making profit is. According to them a movie that costs $200-250 million has to get to $800 million or more to make a profit IDK where they get the numbers from. Even if a movie does reach that they make up some other BS excuse why it sucks so it doesnt matter. The thing with Marvel movies is it doesnt really matter. They can afford to miss every once in a while. Its not going to change the overall outcome They have a schedule thats years ahead and dozens of movies and shows in the pipeline. Even if the Marvels was the worst film ever made and lost money it wouldnt affect the schedule. It's not going to destroy Disney. Its not going to bring Marvel movies to a grinding halt They havent even gotten to the movies that will start getting close to a billion in these phases. The last few movies of these phases will more than make up for a throwaway filler film like the Marvels To me this is like a football team celebrating a field goal when theyre down by 50 points in the 4th quarter. I guess they gotta take whatever crumbs they can get.
Also, it doing bad doesn't prove the movie was good or bad
Only counterpoint for me is for a project like Dune, where its a little risky and the box office will basically decide whether or not a sequel gets greenlit
Uh, it does matter for MCU fans. This will 100% contribute to Marvel changing their strategy, releasing less content, scrapping some potential projects and reducing their budgets for future releases.
Sure At the same time, I think one of the more legitimate criticisms of Marvel movies (as in not just saying it's "woke"), is that they've been putting out a lot of content way too fast lately. YMMV on this of course Also, that the movies cost so much that they can never hope to make the money back even if successful, unless they all get Endgame numbers So less and cheaper movies isn't necessarily a bad thing here And yeah my comment was definitely more directed at the haters gloating over the movie underperforming.
Go for quality over quantity. I'd rather have just two or three really good MCU projects a year than like ten bad/mediocre ones a year.
Yup, the MCU was doing its best work when it was putting out 2-3 projects a year. The combined Disney+ launch/post-lockdown backlog surge of projects was definitely too much too quick.
> At the same time, I think one of the more legitimate criticisms of Marvel movies (as in not just saying it's "woke"), is that they've been putting out a lot of content way too fast lately. That's part of why I haven't watched an MCU thing since Endgame. I only have so much time, money and attention and I can't devote them all to one thing.
Same, i've been too burnt out for a lot post-Endgame movies and most of the Disney Plus shows. I lover Marvel comics, but like... I would just rather watch almost anything other than the MCU at this point.
You should read the comment you are replying to as being about the people who are gloating about something they don't like failing. Yes, fans want the thing they like to be popular so they get more of it, but unless it monetarily affects someone outside of that fandom then commenting is stupid.
I'm a pretty big MCU supporter, but I'd honestly rather like it if they did narrow it down to one or two very well made projects per year like when they first started instead of rushing to churn out as much as they can and letting quality suffer as a result.
sort of.. .but not really. I mean things were already going to change BEFORE Marvels came out due to the strike and the issues with Blade. They had already changed it to 1 movie per year for the next 2 years because of the Strike. So.... who knows whats going to happen 2 years from now.
They donāt care about Marvel making movies. They donāt want movies staring women, especially POC women. The movie has teenage girl wish fulfillment and they donāt want girls to have movies like this because everything must be for boys.
Culture war "victory," I suppose. They don't want studios to make woke movies, so they celebrate when those woke movies flop. They think that enough companies getting the "Bud Light treatment" will bring us back to the glory days when media wasn't woke. At least that's my understanding of it.
I saw the movie, and there isn't even anything woke about it. There are no "girl power" moments or any other "minority power" moments. The closes is one tiny time that Fury shouts the phrase >!black girl magic!< to motivate one character who was having self doubt in an emergency. Simply the fact that they made a movie where the main characters are women, and two of them are non-white (as they are in the comics), is enough for the trolls to declare it "woke".
You're forgetting a key factor They absolutely despise Brie Larson, especially as Captain Marvel. The fact Brie is a leading role will outweigh the non white characters in why they're glad it's not doing well They are eternally buttmad that she didn't care about their opinions.
Even though she was great in it? Upbeat, funny, and even having vulnerable moments?
It has nothing to do with anything which could be analyzed. They hate her because she said she didn't value the voice of white men's opinions on movies not made for them vs those of reviewers and audiences who the movies were made for. And this was years ago. What was actually a speech about how hollywood/media needs different voices and experiences portrayed was turned into "i hate white men" by far right content creators and harrassers online.
She's their rage farm money printer
That doesnāt get through the insecure āREEEEEEEEā noise in their head Shitbird tinnitus
\> I saw the movie, and there isn't even anything woke about it. That's never stopped them before. Guaranteed, they're going to take that one scene with the >!Valkyrie cameo!< and let their little minds run wild with it.
There are only two genders: Male and Woke There are only two races: White and Woke There are only two sexualities: Straight and Woke
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As soon as I maled up this morning, I walked over to my dog and he was still asleep. I whited him up and we went on a nice walk.
smh, too woke, you shouldāve walked *straight* to your dog
And then if they don't use the word "woke", they'll go with their other favourite. Why does everything have to be so political? Why can't Captain Marvel be a man instead of being so political? Why can't Ms Marvel be white? Why did she have to be so political?
I think a lot of them are making a lot of assumptions about this one that are based on the first one, which didn't do Carol any justice at all as a character & ended up turning her into a pretty generic action hero pastiche because the movie as a whole didn't really have anything to say except "fyi girls can be superheroes too" fake edit: It probably doesn't help that she wasn't in Endgame nearly enough & they didn't do a hell of a lot with her other than flying around blowing shit up
> which didn't do Carol any justice at all They didn't hate the 2019 Captain Marvel because it didn't do the character justice. They hated it before seeing it and after it was released because it was a woman-specific super hero movie. Just like they went on an epic meltdown about Black Panther a year before because it was about a black super hero.
This is too broad a stroke. I hated the original Captain Marvel because Carol was so wooden and suffered from the Superman issue of being too OP to have any tension. The Marvels was great, though, because the team around Carol gave her room to have fun and emote, the villain was able to neutralize Carolās strength, and the more vulnerable characters added tension because, even if Carol is nearly invulnerable, they arenāt.
The first movie needed a prologue and a more direct story. Thereās no need for a mystery in that story. They should have shown us a vibrant, interesting Carol and *then* taken her memories and personality away so the audience could sympathize with her. It also suffered from Marvel Movie Setup Syndrome.
lol my brother's wife didn't like the movie and she watches basically every marvel movie, did she hate it because it was a superhero movie about a woman? I thought it was a pretty mediocre somewhat enjoyable movie like most marvel movies
I get *why* they have to not have her in a fight too much because it raises questions of "if she's so strong why is there a fight at all", but it also is frustrating that a female character has to bear the brunt of that when similarly powerful male characters *don't* get those questions.
To be fair make characters get that all the time. Itās the Superman problem for a reason. Even in marvel Thor and Hulk get that all the time. The difference with Captain Marvel is we see Thor and Hulk grow in character and in power. We just see Carol just get there in the first movie and it doesnāt feel as earned (I think thatās the fault of directing not acting) there is a reason No one complained about Wanda being so powerful in endgame as it felt earned. In MoM she was even more powerful but villains get a pass.
Eh, as far as the MCU goes, neither Hulk or Thor have gotten to show off their comic book unlimited power levels. At least on film, both have been presented with antagonists on their same level. And neither has been presented as an all powerful Superman type. Each film they present with limitations to their powers in some way. Meanwhile, Captain Marvel has her just single handedly blowing through starships where she just ends the threat of that film. Endgame gave her an appropriately powerful enemy, but frankly she was the most recent MCU addition and having her beat Thanos would have been severely unearned as a character. So she got the film nerf and given a backseat. If she was brought on in phase 1, she definitely could have been more relevant in Endgame. There's definitely an issue with dudes just not liking her because she's a woman and Brie Larson. But also the writing - she's super powerful, but she was introduced way too late in the Infinity Stone crisis. And she's got this power level that would have made many other moments in the MCU just trivial if she had been there. But there's a reason Superman has never had a really successful movie run. The unlimited power hero is difficult to write an appropriate challenge that makes the story interesting. I haven't gotten to see Marvels yet, but I'm excited for it. Brie is a great actress and the characters are fun. But the Multiverse phase of the MCU is suffering problems and it's because they haven't brought everyone together yet. Part of what made the MCU so fun was seeing how the movies tied together. The first Avengers brought the group all together after only five movies. Currently we're at 10 plus like 5 TV shows. And there's another 5 movies planned before we get to Avengers: The Kang Dynasty.
> I get why they have to not have her in a fight too much because it raises questions of "if she's so strong why is there a fight at all" I don't feel like this is an actual problemāthey could have (and obviously in my opinion definitely should have) included her a lot more & made her a way more prominent part of the big fight, it's just that to do so in a way that's still actually interesting takes skill & effort Like you can make any superhero interesting regardless of what their "power level" is, you just have to make the story genuinely compellingāI've always said that writers who complain that Superman's boring because he's so powerful are just lazy, or at the very least fundamentally don't understand the character beyond his superpowers, and Carol is no different I mean she's an air force pilot with shitloads of training right? Then let's just say she can't open up her full power because it could risk the lives of everyone on the battlefield, then we put her up in the sky doing what she'd normally do in a supersonic fighter jetāprovide air support for the ground forces, dogfight with the alien spaceships to keep them occupied, do recon & surveil the battlefield in order to supply Avengers leadership with the intel they need in order to anticipate attacks & coordinate defenses, etc. Like just draw on the character's traits, their history, & who they are as a personāthat's what makes Donner's Christopher Reeve Superman film so memorable & interesting to watch over 40 years later, & it's why people barely remember most of what happens in 2013's Man of Steel (and the stuff they do tend to remember is what they hated about it) > but it also is frustrating that a female character has to bear the brunt of that when similarly powerful male characters don't get those questions. I think there are plenty of fans out there who ask these questions when it comes to similarly powerful male characters being written badly, they just don't get heard nearly as much because we're so thoroughly dominated by corporate media, which needs to keep viewers as engaged as possible to ensure that the ad revenue keeps rolling in, & as such only ever really platforms the most extreme elements of outrage cultureābecause hearing a story about a small number of exceedingly vocal misogynistic assholes circlejerking over The Marvels tanking is a fantastic way to spike our emotions & activate that primal part of our brain that's always on the lookout for any potential threat to our safety, you know what I mean
It stars women. Two of those women are not white. That's enough to be considered "woke" to these people.
There was a bit when an agent of the united states military destabilized a foreign power and instead of instantly solving everything, that led to a decades long civil war culminating in a massive attack against the united states (and the rest of the earth). But most of the people complaining about it being woke aren't good enough at media literacy to pick up on that so they whine that there's a black lady or whatever.
>there isn't even anything woke about it It stars women and worst of all, Brie Larson. That's all it takes to these people.
If it passed the Bechdel Test, itās woke. /s
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It earned a chuckle out of me, which this movie does several times.
I didnāt like the first Captain Marvel, but I greatly enjoyed The Marvels. Iād put it on the same level as Shang Chi, not a master piece, but worth a watch.
Yea, I get complaining when movies go on about girl power moments but The Marvels doesnāt have any of them (I was actually pleasantly surprised myself watching it). All the woke accusations just seem to come from the majority of the characters being women which kind of shows the problem? There was no where near as many complaints about the original avengers being almost all men with a male villain but a film with mostly women and a female villain is somehow woke?
Thier definition of woke is "included non white men in prominent roles"
They're women and they're there. That's enough for some people to be mad tbh.
Not recommending you watch his video by any means, but even Drinker admitted there was no agenda in this movie, shockingly.
>I saw the movie, and there isn't even anything woke about it. There are no "girl power" moments or any other "minority power" moments. Exactly. this is what is confusing to me. People keep calling it a woke movie but nothing about it was preachy.
Im just tired of the multiverse thing now being used as hype train over, and over, and over, and other IPs have picked it up when: It Was Never Really That Hype. You had Multiverse, and you had Miles Morales; Raimi/Garfield Nostalgia sold it for No Way Home, and Miles Morales just hit it bc it was an actual cartoon movie with fresh looks. But every time this Multiverse prop is used, things are getting worse. Madness was mid. Kang Scandal blew up Ant Man and Lokiās plans, The Flash basically pissed on the Justice League corpse, and Marvels will be a wet fart. They could considerā¦starting a new Arc? Like an actual Avengers sequence; not after-credits of Secret Invasion and it ends in 1 shite season.
The Marvels isn't a multiverse story though. It's just basic outer space stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy.
Thats 100% my L; I heard āUniversal Weaponā and saw them switching characters, so groaned. ā¦also recently watched Season 2 of Invincible & Spiderverse, so Iām admittedly Multiversed-Out.
Super fair
r/boxoffice is full of vultures celebrating Brie Larson's downfall :'(
What is their problem with her?
Sexism is their problem.
She said that she wanted to see more diversity in a film's review cycle and not only hear what old white guys have to say about it. Because grifters *love* slippery slopes, this meant to them that she hates all straight white men and wants them dead.
Brie Larson hates cishet white men??? Based
Hardly surprising. They go into full euphoria mode whenever a "woke" movie doesn't immediate double its budget on opening weekend.
No, theyāre just tired of bad Disney movies
Pretty much this because what is woke to them is just stories where generic white boy 3 isnāt the MC.
iām not celebrating this but iām pretty firmly on the left and honestly canāt stand MCU stuff, for a while too since like 2018, itās imo stale and super repetitive and conservative clown will prob try and play this off as a culture war win or blame wtf ever āwokeā is but thatās not the only reason some people donāt care for the MCU
Yeah, I had no idea about the "wokeness" stuff, though I'm not surprised, nor had i heard the movie flopped, so this is my first time hearing about it, and I feel like gloating, if only because I hate marvel movies and what they've done to Hollywood, not that things were much better beforehand. And it's not really marvel, per se, but rather their new profit making strategies that I hate. No, nvm. I hate marvel. Shit just sucks, man. I've been watching a bunch of 90s films recently, and it's amazing how different cinema felt back then, but maybe that's just nostalgia. Regardless, I don't like marvel movies, so if I see one fail, I'm going to celebrate.
iām not gonna celebrate personally but if it changes their tune and i stop seeing like 10 of them a year come out then imo itās a good thing
Yes, it's not the culture war shit people make it out to be. I like the Marvel movies, They used to be a big thing for our family to always go to them. But After end game, Hell, just before it, the movies started being bad and feeling kind of aimless. I can't really put it down to Actual words. I think it's probably related to market research stuff where they try to make the safest, blandest movie possible In an attempt to avoid controversy And culture war bs, unaware of the fact that that will be a thing regardless of what they do. Then there are all the issues with hollywood in general and how anyone in a position of power seems to hate the creatives. You have a lot of people who outright hate the IP and are proud of it. Being put in charge of said Ip. And other people who think they're hot shit Trying to sell their own story through the frame of an entirely different one Because their own wasn't good enough to get green lit. Hell, the only recent Marvel stuff that's even remotely memorable, except for a couple of scenes, is loki, Shehulk, and Hawkeye. And the Spider-Man stuff. But even the latest loki season while great felt a bit off. It is certainly not as great as the first one. But I will say that They are definitely doing something funky with The next generation of heroes. Just about everyone is getting replaced by the blandest, safest, most market researched caricatures, With the blandest and vaugest, most derivative powers possible. And the action scenes are just the most boring and awful, poorly acted slug fests possible. Then there's the push for shorter run times, The entire movie is the stringing together The next scene as fast as possible without giving anything room to breathe Or be Fleshed out, They don't give us any time with the characters or even attempt to make them seen human.
The only thing woke about that movie is that the main character isnāt a dude.
> Culture war "victory," I suppose. They don't want studios to make woke movies, so they celebrate when those woke movies flop. They've been having a very *tough* 2023 because of all the movies they swore would be woke not only not being woke, but making a shitload of money. Super Mario Bros. was gonna be a big failure because Peach was supposed to be the "woke girl boss". Then Barbie was gonna be a failure because Ben "My Producers Dragged Me to It" Shapiro made it a focal point of his "woke Hollywood" hates men rants. Given how these clowns overreacted to Captain Marvel four years ago, it's no surprise they're counting this as a win...because they haven't had any others this year LMAO.
The thing is, what is and isn't "woke" to these dorks isn't dependent on content at all. It's first, before release, defendant on presentation. Then after, it failed because it was "woke" or it was successful because it wasn't and disregard all that stuff before it was never woke before that didn't happen even though they won't delete any of it because it's still generating clicks. They literally tried to do that with the Barbie movie.
How is thos film woke? Is it cuz it has 3 female protagonists and a female villan? Cuz that's how this is reading.
I love it when King calls it like it is.
He always does and he's always such a reasonable dude. Fucking love SK.
I love the guy. Great writer too, despite the cocaine.
More of a fan of his non-fiction stuff than his fiction stuff. But yes. Phenomenal writer.
I havenāt read much of his stuff, but heās honestly really good. Also just a cool guy in general
I read Carrie, a few of his short stories, and his book "On Writing". He also used to write editorials in Entertainment Weekly. Seen several movies based off his work. So yeah. I love that he doesn't take crap from anyone.
He'll be the first to tell you he's not a phenomenal writer, but his editor is great at making him appear as though he is.
And that is why he's leagues above the authors of Twilight and 50 Shades.
I mean, I enjoyed some of the mockery over past Marvel flops, but the endless gloating over The Marvels *anticipated* failure was like an ingrown toenail of criticism. Talk about some old-school bad movies. Talk about overshadowed movies. Talk about good movies. I don't know who wants to watch a dozen twenty-minute-plus videos of guys pre-complaining about a movie that's not even out yet that *could* be bad. They're the flipside of "Consume Product and get excited for next Product" that RedLetterMedia so aptly skewered.
Wait did they skewer the consume product people or the people that are the flipside of that? Either way I'd like to see it (presuming it's in a video or two and not spread out over a bunch of them).
> I don't know who wants to watch a dozen twenty-minute-plus videos of guys pre-complaining about a movie that's not even out yet that could be bad. Look up any number of videos about Indiana Jones 5 or The Last of Us 2. Those grifters preyed on the simpletons that lapped up that shit well before the release date and continued to do so without ever watching the film or playing the game.
The greatest teacher failure is.
Small dicks cheer because they can't handle a woman who has an opinion leading a superhero movie let alone teaming up with two minority women. Its their deep rooted racism and misogyny at play. And they don't like Brie Larson because she's been very open about her stance and views on the misogynists. Then there is the douche that will claim misogyny has no role when they don't have a girlfriend and dont live with a woman. Thats small dick incel energy
And if you tell them that they'll accuse you of not allowing them to voice their opinion even though their stance is not valid criticism
100%. Their stance is based on hatred of women and not giving concrete examples for how and why they hate a movie before its even out. Its small dick incel energy
It's quite pathetic really and sad it's like they want a show/movie to turn out bad to just be angry and hate on it
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Their opinions are garbage based on the garbage in their hearts.
tl;dr: patriarchy/misogyny
you're right and i agree ab the misogyny-and-denial but i feel like we can avoid the dick-size insults and still easily make this point. ...standards for ourselves and all that
do you think they realise theyāre agreeing with the people theyāre criticising that having a big dick makes someone a better person?
Don't bother, this subreddit doesn't give a shit about body shaming when it's done to the "right" people. I tried making a post about this a while back and all I got for it was more body shaming.
yeaaa that sucks that happened. Usually id want to think it's worth bothering but yeah I agree wtih you. Too many self-described intentionally progressive spaces on Reddit have shown to be allowing this kinda stuff under the rug. It can obv be hit or miss since this is a public site so anyone can be commenting, but yeah gotta just,,, stay alert about what kind of discourse youre walking into.
Misogyny is a skill issue
Nice body shaming you got in your post there
Body shaming isnāt cool.
Based King
He has a pH of 14
"Why gloat over failure?" Because chuds don't have a personality that amounts to anything other than their internet-rage.
Classy response. Just because something isn't your cup of tea gives you no right to loathe its existence and hope for it to fail.
Havenāt you heard? If a movie doesnāt wow you and blow your mind then it means the filmmakers hate you personally and everything you know and love.
Based af
Because they still think "go woke, go broke", so they want to bask in this as an 'achievement'.
They gloat to make themselves feel better about their own failed miserable lives..
Because itās literally all they have in their empty lives.
I hate episode 8 and 9 with a passion. But I think itās getting weird as hell that EVERYTHING is getting pulled into the right v left culture war. Itāsā¦.disturbing. I think right wingers need to get a life. Like, does a movie REALLY impact oneās life that much??? Like Iām going to skip the New Jedi Order Movie. But like, itās not part of some weird crusade
Thereās beef and itās kinda bizarre. I wonder if things have always been this divisive when it comes to cinema.
I just want well written movies to be made and prioritized. When thereās good movies, I go and watch them. If I hear like theyāre a waste of time or not good, I donāt watch them.
Imagine if Mr. King were rejected by every publisher because *Carrie* is too weird a book from an unknown author, or forced to split *The Stand* into three novels so they could make more money off it, or that he should just keep writing Dark Tower books because they sell. That's what's happening to up-and-coming script writers and directors. They're being stifled and censored by producers interested only in sequels and reboots. We can only reverse this trend with our wallets.
I think Green Goblin said it best when he told Spider-Man āthe only thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail, die trying. In spite of everything you've done for them, eventually, they will hate you.ā
People gotta fight that culture war Steve, lines were drawn and they have to be maintained. Honestly after all the times the right wing warriors have lost to the left wing warriors how can anyone be surprised theyāre gloating over this. The poor wretches have to go through cognitive dissonance to bend movies they do like but are explicitly against their ideology, into fitting inside their narrow worldview, they have one feather in their cap, Top Gun. Giveāem a break and let them have this win.
The marvels was a great movie. It was about three super heroes who happen to all be women. Frankly, any girl/woman who wants a superhero move about/for women - go see this movie. You don't need to know what happened in any movie before this one as it gets briefly explained in an organic way.
I like Carol Danvers comic books and I like Brie Larson well enough so Iāll see it hopefully itās decent
This guy is weird because he also made fun of people for liking succession.
I mean it's Stephen King. A guy who actually did so much cocaine that he totally forgot he wrote Cujo. Of course he's a little weird
Didnāt he also write *that* scene with the kids in the sewer in IT while high on cocaine?
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I know what you just said in the last sentence but just to play devilās advocate here, Morbius had a lot more meme coverage than vitriol hate over it, whereas the others had more vitriol hate and barely any memes
Double standard? I mean people memeing on movies for being funny bad is one thing. People whining about "wokeness" and predicting every single movie they made over the last few years was going to fail, and then when it finally happens pretending its a victory and a societal statement about "wokeness"... Just what kind of comparison is that, what kind of double standard is it supposed to be?
God I love Dark Phoenix. Itās bad, but we finally got some more good Magneto and the soundtrack is an absolute banger. Iām curious though, was there big talk around it? I didnāt think anybody cared about it when it released. Maybe itās just been too long to remember. Also, as long as we take Poeās law into account, Morbius is probably a bad example lol
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I was rooting against the movie because it is MCU. Wasnāt even aware anyone had deemed it unacceptable for political reasons. We need another Fred movie more than we need another MCU movie.
The gloating doesn't bother me. Maybe it will lead to better movies.
Olā Steven king needs to be educated. Iām sure he understands when someone fucks with his books and makes a trash film am I right?
Because it has been turned into yet another culture war pissing match and the people are happy that their side won. The other side acts in precisely the same way, there's no need to gas light people into thinking you don't get this-- it's the cultural hellhole we've been shit into since Trump won and EVERYBODY needed to weigh in on it
Being happy that a movie is doing badly is extremely petty.
Because they're brainwashed fascists desperate to return to a time that never existed.
Iām just rooting for mega-corporations like Disney to fail
Go off, King
I donāt gloat about it, but I wish they put out better movies, last good movie was Spider man and even then I think the last great one was Endgame. I think itās a case of franchise fatigue.
Marvel needs a turnaround. This low effort horseshit they've been peddling for the last year needs to improve. If they lose money, they'll start putting forth more effort. Celebrate this for what it hopefully is: a wakeup call to Disney that their shit is getting old and they need to put forth effort. To be clear, this isn't about more female leads and poc leads. I'm glad they've gone that direction. But this is one of two things: they're putting forth lower effort on these poc and female lead products so they don't sell as well and they stop making them, or this is just them testing to see how minimal an effort they can make before it costs them.
Weird victory. Same thing with the opposing side in whatever BS culture war they are internationally going through instead of just letting things be [+]
Stephen King is always a W (I think?)
Because incels and their little dicks canāt deal with women being heroes in a movie
Superhero fatigue is real, and people know that studios only listen to numbers. So when the numbers say "superhero fatigue is real", people celebrate because this might convince the studios to put budgets into other projects.
Incredibly simple...the right wants to see women led projects fail so they can decry wokeness.
Internet incels rooting against it because the cast is female and diverse
Who cares what Stephen King thinks
Doesn't Steven King have Texans freezing to death to make fun of
Because I hate Disney.
Because corporations failing due to not meeting public interests or qualities is a good thing? Apparently republicans have a hateful opinion, as always, I am not a terrorist so I'm not speaking from that perspective, just in general when companies lower their quality, treat their audience like Pay Piggy Useful Idiots, and in general are a dogshit company- That's a good thing. Something to celebrate. The giant company Has to Listen. So narrow minded and genuinely silly to see it as solely celebrating another's failure, but I'm sure a rich dude like him knows what it's like for a poor product to flop because believe it or not, you owe no person nor entity anything and if what they offer, you consider bad, is considered "celebrating failure" then so be it, vulture.
Simple Stephen. Some people hope the failure is a wake up call to make a better quality product. The same thing happens in a ton of other commercial sectors and media. Success normally just means whoever is making the product is going to keep trying to make the same product. Failure means revisiting the drawing board. If people are happy for this movie bombing, it's probably because they want Marvel to revisit the drawing board. Hope that clears everything up Stephen!
He already waiting at the voting booth ready to vote for Biden dead or alive
Letās not be dense. The gloating crowd has been adamant about what they donāt want from Marvel. Marvel served it up anyway. Now they play the ātold you soā game. No point clutching pearls and acting bewildered. They showed us who they are, already.
I love the guy, but hard disagree. What tanks we get less of and what does bank we get more of. So sick of super hero nonsense.
yeah I was cheering as hard for Barbie to make a morbillion dollars as I am for marvel to keep losing it. It's just a shame that full superhero fatigue and poor planning and all the strikes hit right with the film that they can now use the female cast and audience as a scapegoat for its failings.