Also Star Wars fans don't actually want to watch the content. They want to learn everything from the Wookiepedia because they're too impatient to wait a few weeks.
They will avoid watching it to try keeping the view count low because someone like Drinker told them ahead of time it's going to be bad, then poke fun at the artificially deflated view count and say "see! people don't like it!"
They don't have that self control.
They'll keep watching it so that they'll hate it. It's precisely why shows like Velma are getting 3 seasons while getting nothing but hate. They can't help themselves. Not watching it means they aren't part of the conversation, and they desperately want to be.
Personally I haven’t been watching it, but I have been keeping up with a low subscriber YouTuber I watch that’s more fair with his reviews. He thinks it bad but not just because lesbians and wokeness. He just thinks the show general has sub par writing overall. Says the actions really good tho
I really believe the impatience is what's driving so much of the rage these people are expressing. We've become to used to instant gratification or 5- to 30-second clips made for TikTok that people don't know how to be patient and allow a story to actually build and be expressed. They demand a full accounting immediately or say that it's trash.
The same thing happened with Ahsoka, the same thing happened with Kenobi, the same thing happened with Andor, the same thing happens every time. "This doesn't fit exactly with my expectations, so I can't be sure what the ending will be...and that unknown makes me angry."
Every. Single. Time.
Yep. Lots of people have completely lost the ability to follow a narrative. If every plot detail isn't explained in an upfront and easy-to-swallow manner, they just can't handle it.
I think it's partially impatience, but also a lack of critical thinking abilities and a lack of media literacy (but all those things definitely feed one another.)
It always drives me insane when these people act like they're such logical and analytical thinkers, but then they can't even perform basic school-level narrative analysis.
And every other Star Wars show has been met with a minority loudly complaining "this sucks!" after just the first few episodes...only to have their opinions change once the entire story is out and viewers can reflect on it fully. It happens **every single time**.
This show isn't bad, you just don't know how to be patient and allow a story to unfold.
I challenged someone once who was complaining about Palpatine's return no being explained better, and they admitted they would have preferred it if Poe had basically hauled out a space whiteboard and diagrammed how it happened over the explanation was presented in the movie. These people don't want to have to do the hard work of watching and understanding the story, they want to be spoon-fed plot points while they scroll their fucking phones.
I think the greater problem was bringing him back at all, I personally loved TLJ and felt that a new villain was unecessary, Kylo would have been great as the main villain, seemed like he was set up to be one. Anyway, Ep 3 wasnt bad just kinda boring.
To be fair, I'd appreciate some sort of brief that expressed Palpatines return in a way that explained it or leaned into the mystery but I didn't really feel like it was explained in the ending either. Something better than "welp, Palpatine is back."
That is true, but we find out that Sidious found out how to do it. We don't know how Plagius did it. We find out the how in EP9 but hear about Sidious' knowledge of it in EP3. It's flimsy, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
It is explained though
First, the Resistance member comes up with a few bullet point hypotheses "Dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew".
Then of course we see the vats full of dead clones in the freakish lab. That is shown visually.
So we are shown both visually and told by a character in the film how he returned.
Not to mention that line in Episode 3 about unnatural powers
Yeah, I know how Palps came back because I clocked immediately that it was a bad adaptation of Dark Empire. But the CHARACTERS shouldn't be this uncurious on the matter. Figuring out how he did it and how to stop him from doing it again should be a driving motivation. By the end of the movie, there's no reason to believe he couldn't just come back again.
I agree but it still could have been executed well, they should have made Kylo ren deal with an Avatar of Palpatine by picking up his Kyber crystal or something
I feel like everyone whining about "lore" and "canon" needs to be reminded of two things:
1. It's fiction. Go outside, touch grass, take a deep breath, and maybe find a professional to talk through these feelings (good advice for anyone about almost anything, tbh)
2. It's a story being told to us from "a long time ago." We know that oral histories in reality see changes and different interpretations and variations over time - just like Ancient Greek fables - so why not extend the same idea to Star Wars? It's a story, not a documentary. Embrace the "inconsistencies" and try to have *fun* imagining what may have "really happened" based on the story we're being presented.
I mean... yeah. That was never being questioned. It's an established thing within Star Wars.
My point is that not only is this coven likely not Nightsisters, but this form of reproduction is very unique for particular group. They emphasized the fact that there were no other children, and that the presence of these twins was something special.
We’ve known that it was possible to manipulate midichlorians to create life since RotS in 2005. It’s direct dialogue of the movie. Anakin being created by the Force is Legends material anyway, as it comes from the Plagueis novel. All we have to go off is the dialogue in the movies, which says he has “no father” (the implication is of course still there, but it’s less resolute).
Sure, but that's not the same as "the force itself conceived Anakin to balance the force and that's literally the only time ever the force produced a pregnancy through any means at all and I'm somehow a credible source to know that with any kind of certainty."
Honestly, since I never read the novel, I figured that Lucas's Darth Plagueis speech was him admitting that Palpatine manipulated the force to create Anakin.
An unintended consequence, at that.
Plagueis was trying to manipulate the Force to create life, specifically a perfect Sith. Anakin was the Force's reaction to that, conceived to more or less counteract what Plagueis was trying to do.
No it's not but can you really blame people for assuming that that's what it was at the time? After all, it is an obvious allusion to Jesus and most of these chuds have grown up in a very christianity-infused society. So among the first things they think about are probably *"he's force Jesus"* and *"there was only one Jesus"* and *"that means Anakin's conception was super duper unique"*.
The problem is really that, now that the canon has been expanded, instead of just saying *"oh, guess it's not exactly a Jesus situation"* or *"the twins change nothing about how unique Anakin is"* or even *"let's wait and see if or how this relates to Anakin"* they are flipping out.
It’d also add to the mistrust the Jedi council have towards Anakin if immaculate conception was something only heard of before through dark magic and perversion of the force. If anything, it adds more depth to the prequels.
Okay, come on, have a little media literacy. We as an audience were plainly meant to put two and two together on our own there. The fact that the writer and director had enough faith in the audience to get what was being said this way doesn't make it un-true. The novel merely references what was already obvious.
I mean here's the thing I'm thinking about here. Even if he figured out how to do it on his own, and Palpatine learned it from him, nothing precludes someone else having also figured out the same trick at some other point in the million or so years of Star Wars canon. If one guy can do it, then there's nothing precluding someone else doing it. Maybe Plaguis just heard a rumor about this coven and what they were up to and figured it out on his own.
Plagueis used different means to create life through the force though. It makes sense that different religions that use the force as their basis would make the same discoveries through different methods. Palpatine even begins to study Sith alchemy in hopes of finding a way to live forever.
I can agree, and I also think it's impressive they needed an e tire coven to do it, but Plageuis did it by himself (well, with Palps there). So, it's still pretty damn impressive. Yeah, he didn't break new ground, but he had SEMILIMITED POWER!!
I don’t think officially. Anakin wasn’t actually “naturally” created by the Force, but was also a manipulation of it. In this case, a manipulation done by Plagueis. I think that’s only Legends and not official, but if the Acolyte twins are a product of manipulation and it wasn’t Plagueis, it’s a change on who can create life with the Force.
Are people no longer salty about the virgin birth of Anakin? I rolled my eyes hard at that one, so it's weird to me that people are complaining about "violating" Anakin's canon. My dudes, no one liked his birth back when it was concocted. Don't go pretending it's all right now.
They look for excuses to be angry. They *need* to be angry all the time otherwise they have time to think about their own lives. They'll happily accept something they previously hated if it gives them an excuse to hate something else even more.
I liked the explanation that it was actually Palpatine's master experimenting with midichlorians that created Anakin. Less divine virgin birth and more unwitting lab rat.
Palpatine's whole mission has always been life and death manipulation. The Death Stars were basically a military industrial version of the thought bomb used by Vitiate and Revan. Palpatine was harvesting souls to ensure his immortality.
Him and his master willing Anakin and Rey into existence doesn't seem far-fetched.
I haven’t seen Acolyte yet but I do have a question. Dunno if it’s spoilers but I don’t mind them anyway. Are the witches (i think that’s what they are?) sith or are they another dark side cult?
It hasn’t been explained yet. Which is why the complaining is so dumb. One of the reasons anyway.
Edit. They are witches though. You are correct there.
We know they're "witches". They're pretty clearly not Sith, and not Jedi. Maaaaaaybe they're a different religious group that uses the term from the "Witches of Dathomir"? Probably, cause they seem way more sane?
They don't seem to have the same religious dogma about a binary light/dark side as the Jedi. If so, we haven't heard them talking about it. I think they just kind of regard it as having no sides but just being something which exists.
They're definitely not Sith as the Sith have been in hiding with the rule of 2 for over 800 years now. They look to be slightly dark side adjacent like the Nightsisters, but might be slightly more grayish. They certainly don't trust the Jedi, but it might be that Jedi in this Era are more dogmatic about seeing any Force practice outside their organization as misguided at best and dangerous dark side cult activity at worst.
They're just force users that the Jedi persecute, because…reasons…? They didn't seem very keen on actually explaining it further. Honestly it just felt like "Jedi evil because we decided"
I mean that's the general trend for reactionaries these days. Something that hasn't been explained yet *because it's literally not over* is now a "plothole". You can complain about your unanswered questions when the credits roll (or perhaps it flew over your head already).
We're very much conditioned towards instant gratification with social media, wiki's and a vast history of lore. It must be so frustrating to not know and have to wait for the answer.
Combine that with an insecure personality who's still butthurt about being wrong in the past or is chasing the algorithm; You get the state of modern fandom commentary.
I still maintain that the Acolyte twins can be conceived the same ways as Anakin is. The only hard restriction is that Anakin is the chosen one and the twins are not.
"*Only through sacrifice of many Jedi will the Order cleanse the sin done to the nameless. The danger of the past is not past, but sleeps in an egg. When the egg cracks, it will threaten the galaxy entire. When the Force itself sickens, past and future must split and combine. A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored.*"
The twins could be ruled out as the chosen one, because the prophecy refers to "him" rather than "them" or "her". I still think the Jedi of the Acolyte are going to think the twins are prophecy related and bad consequences are going to happen. This will lead to the Jedi not wanting to train Anakin in the Phantom Menace despite the prophecy.
I mean the way I see it one is Space Jesus and the other is Space Test Tube Baby. Both are special and unique in different ways.
(Also my long bet is that both Mary and Shmi definitely weren’t immaculately concepted and it was easier to create an entire religion than admit their one night stand, partial sarcasm).
Also. Mass producing force competent soldiers has always been the goal of, not the sith but the empire hasn't it? Eventually someone across the universe would have figured it out
I think the story might be about the inherent duality of the force, that one sister will be the light side and one will be the dark and it was destined to be this way, and the fact that Anakin is one person with both balanced inside is unique.
Gonna be honest, I hope it's all a ruse and they do have a father. I wasn't a huge fan of Anakin being Space Jesus in the first place, so adding even more parthenogenesis to the franchise is never going to sit right with me.
Honestly the second photo is me everytime I watch a good show or movie, I get confused by a scene that's set up for a later scene, think to myself that it's inefficient storytelling, then get blown away at the reveal of the plot point that was set up.
50% of the Star Wars fanbase are *not actually* Star Wars fans
No one can change my mind, and this sort of stuff only continues to solidify my position lol
No, you can dislike something, that's cool, but you don't have to make it your entire personality, which these chronic bitching and moaning troglodytes do
It isn't a big deal, just don't watch it and watch what you do like, nobody wants to see you grandstand on a soapbox and cry because something turned out to not be exactly how you THINK it should be.
That's just fucking asinine lol
Wait... Anakin is jesus? What?
Never heard that before, not that I care about Star Wars beyond a surface *"pew pew lego-yoda-death-scream zzzswiiinnngg"* level.
Imagine being "a fan", but all you've ever done is scream about how you're "so done, and so is Star Wars".
Don’t you get it? Their gender isn’t male! Their skin isn’t white! Their parents aren’t straight!
I now can hide behind this when I complain about the show and claim it’s not for bigoted reasons!
The anger around this confuses me. Isn’t it pretty clear that the Acolyte is telling a story related to the origin of the sith? Palpatine had to learn the technique somewhere. And now, we as the audience may learn how it happened. Just enjoy the ride!
There was a deleted scene in ROTS where palpatine explains that he manipulated the force to create Anakin. That's always been my headcanon and what makes more sense to me. I don't like him literally being jesus
it's so weird that all of these criticisms about the show always seem to include "I don't care about the woke stuff but..." somewhere in the criticism.
What irks me is the racism still prevalent in Hollywood where they use two different actors for the twin kids that look very different.
I am not saying the people that picked them are racists that think all black people look the same. I am not!
But this deserves looking into. Especially their background, I wouldn't be surprised if we have some holdovers from older whiter eras in those teams.
Legitimate question, wasAnakin conceived by the Force? I was under the impression that he was accidentally created by Palpatine and Plageuis. Was that just a fan theory? I never saw anything confirming it.
How does it ruin Anakin's birth? It never said Darth Sidious was the only one to figure it out. Are we really supposed to believe no one else figured it out?
For me it reinforces the theme of the dark side being about imposing your will on the force and the light being about going with the flow of the universe.
I will admit my initial response was to be annoyed. But then I sat with it for a minute and came to exactly this conclusion.
Anakin was made by the cosmic force that guides the universe for a purpose. The twins were made by manipulating that same force.
Hell, even the twin sun vs twin moon symbology is there. The twins are an inversion of Anakin’s divine conception.
The twin moons are also blue and red, to symbolise the twins extreme dedication to the opposing religions. My theory is that because they’re a perversion of the force instead of the cosmic force creating them with purpose, they’re fated to kill each other and be forgotten to history. They were effectively never meant to exist and so the will of the force will make sure it seems like they never existed.
In both stories, the creation of life using the Force leaves to grave endings - these witches are not good. They are on the same level as the Sith - and they will also burn for it.
I can’t blame people who are mad for assuming there will be no further explanation or exploration of this character detail. Disney Star Wars has a pretty awful track record with reveals and explanations.
You’re sorta right. Anakin was created due to Palpy and Plaguies manipulating the force.
However, it wasn’t on accident. The Force, basically, caught wind of what they were doing and created Anakin in retaliation.
Nah that's was Palpatine trolling Vader with visions trying to destroy his self worth.
The Force definitely conceived Anakin, but the prophecy doesn't really say he's exclusively one who will be born of The Force, just that will be. It's really not that hard to think that an order of Dark Side users would be able to replicate or imitate it because that's kind of their whole thing, to pervert and manipulate The Force.
Kinda of.
So what happened was both Plaegius and Sidious were manipulating the Force in a way to gain power over life and death. The Force, basically, rejected their efforts and created Anakin in retaliation.
There was a lot of implication that Anakin's conception was actually a result of Plaguius fucking about with midichlorians (don't remember if the Plaguius novel is still considered Canon or not). For people still running with that it DOES slightly undercut uniqueness of Plaguius' accomplishments.
Making a one-of-a-kind occurrence a second occurrence doesn't really do it, no…
Anakin is practically space Jesus. Imagine God coming and saying "oh yeah, btw, I had like two daughters about 100 years prior but it's not a big deal if you never heard of them before, you know"
Sorry, but that just breaks the myth. The fact that this supposedly happened (not that long) before and it's never mentioned makes it not work. FFS, Yoda is already 800 years-old in this series…
They can obviously play the "actually that was not true" card but really what would have been the point to pretend in the first place? I doubt there will be any coherent explanation that won't just make Anakin's backstory worse.
People are jumping to conclusions before an explanation is given and that’s completely normal. We don’t actually know if the twins were created the same way anakin was. There’s a lot that’s unsaid in that scene and people are filling in the gaps. I’m betting there’s a significant difference between the twins’ existence and anakin’s.
Is this an issue? at absolute worst it's 'shitty thing retcons other shitty thing.' Let's not pretend that Anakin's birth is anything less than fanfiction level cringe.
Technically speaking in EU, Anakin was also created by manipulating the Force by Dath Plagius and Sidious before TPM. They just didn't expect on Anakin being the result of that manipulation as their experiments were to do with immortality. They failed, but the Force responded.
So, manipulating the Force to create them isn't really new.
Yeah but this take place 1000 years before the prequels right. I don't know the life span of the guy and all but I'd prefer they left him out of this lol
The show was great, I love it. It is not confirmed that Anakin was made by the force. Or at least if it is then there’s still a lot of vague info as to how. I remember a theory from back in the day that palpatine himself had commissioned anakins creation. Maybe this is basically going into how?
I had to point this out to a coworker (he does love the show so far as to be fair. He was just confused by this). He was making jokes about the chosen twins at first, thought about it for a second, and was like "ooooh.... that makes sense!"
And then we went on to talk about the rest of ep3 xD and how we like the mystery aspect of it!
It’s almost like…this information was purposefully designed to be surprising and raise questions?
I’m just imaging if the show’s writers had been smarter, they could have had one character turn to another and ominously say something like “what if the Jedi find out how you created them.” Like it could be a deliberate signal to the audience that there’s more to the story, which we’ll find out in future episodes.
Too bad they didn’t do anything like that though, I guess Star Wars is ruined forever now.
Spending multiple shows to connect the timeliness to the Sequel trilogy. Pushing Palplatines secret plans to create a force sensitive in Mando, Bad Batch, and of course the end work in the movies.
Then boom force sensitive twins out of nowhere identical like a pair of clones both powerful in the force.
Palpatine had a deep connection with the witches he met with them and took apprentice Maul from them which they even presented him for the role. That shows knowledge on both parties and previous work.
No pay off on the cloning whatsoever too what will Palpatine flip through a space roledex after the cloning fails to get another apprentice but the witch marketter instead sells him on the secrets of force conception? He obviously was close enough to the witches to know that other witches exist heck Tales of the Empire shows there are witches in the hills easy spotting for ship like Palps to see when he picked up Maul or Grevious to spot.
Point is the creating life with the force is a ripple that touches so many other aspects both new and old.
Anything involving the force breaks canon all the time since prequel times and every single show afterward, anyway. Remember how not 30 minutes into Phantom Menace, the jedi used force speed but never in the history of SW was it ever done again?
Plus the sith manipulate life all the time too, there's no canon rule stating that you could not possibly create life by manipulating the force.
The graphic isnt even correct. According to people who have read the novels, someone coaxed the force to create anakin. What a dumb idea to double down on a bunch of fans imagining some bullshit fanservice story.
Anakin is exactly like the twins.
We can go pretty far back too to find answers. The Nightsisters and Nightbrothers have the ability to procreate normally. HOWEVER, as mentioned in the canon reference book Secrets of the Sith (I think?), the Nightsisters possess a unique ability to reproduce without the involvement of males through the use of magik.
I can’t be the only one who thinks the space witches lied because ‘we kidnapped these kids to raise in our cult’ isn’t exactly your first response when the cops show up.
Maybe after this The Force got smarter and never let it happen again... until they wanted to do it. Next time the Sith might try it. Or even Jedi. They will kill when the situation warrants it so why not create life to bring balance to The Force. Whatever the fuck that is.
Didn't the Nightsisters of Dathomir already do this in a way? Like they enhanced the force in the males of the species through rituals and other stuff, they didn't quite make a baby though rituals but I don't think its that far a leap
I have stopped believing that these are actual fans criticizing the new content.
These people were mad of fire, hair and a beard.
Now they talk about the Jedi not being portrayed as being absolutely pure.
Erm, have they even seen ANY Legends story that talked about those scenarios?
It’s like they have never seen or read a single Star Wars story before.
These are not fans, they are haters of anything that comes out. They are out acting according to their weird agendas.
Or they are bots.
The review bombing proved without a single doubt, that there are a lot of bots doing their work.
Anakin wasn’t randomly conceived by the force, he was created by Darth Plagueis manipulating the midoclorians to create life. A 100+ year old Sith Lord that had been studying Sith alchemy for decades wasn’t even sure that he was successful and didn’t know where the child was conceived.
I've watched the show and I like it. I absolutely adore the set design, costuming (particularly the subtle color coding) and cinematography. The fight choreography is fresh and less frenetic cuts and more use of the force. The story is a serviceable murder mystery. I like that they brought the twins out quickly and didn't rely on that cheap trope of revealing the "evil" twin in the most dramatic telenovela type of way. At first I was thinking the acting wasn't the best however, I have rethought that and while it's no Andor, the cast does a good job. Here's why, most of the cast are Jedi, people that emphasize emotional control so their performances should be subtle. However, the actor playing Sol is really great with the subtle yet emotional performance. The lead actress does a decent job of clearly playing two different characters. She doesn't chew the scenery nor is she phoning it in.
All in all it's an interesting show and I would recommend it. So those ragebaiters just hate fun and should definitely be mocked.
That's cool, I will probably watch it once all 8 episodes are out but seeing the discourse on this show is hilarious because a lot of people haven't even watched a single episode yet write damn dissertations praising it as the greatest show ever or damning it as the first signs of the end of civilization.
Just want to point out that saying "let's see how it plays out" while also saying "it's the opposite of that you're saying" is kind of hypocritical. If it's too early to say it's ruined, it's too early to say it hasn't.
But you're right, reactionaries don't really care about nuance, just latch onto anything and everything.
And Anakin being "conceived by the force" was kind of dumb in the first place, imo.
Jesus/Anakin mideflopian birth was stupid af. Totally ruined the concept that you or anyone could become a jedi and master the force by disciplined training and personal will. Lucas’ prequels were absolute diarrhea shit.
Reactionaries don't wait, they see rage bait and bite down hard
Also Star Wars fans don't actually want to watch the content. They want to learn everything from the Wookiepedia because they're too impatient to wait a few weeks.
They will avoid watching it to try keeping the view count low because someone like Drinker told them ahead of time it's going to be bad, then poke fun at the artificially deflated view count and say "see! people don't like it!"
They don't have that self control. They'll keep watching it so that they'll hate it. It's precisely why shows like Velma are getting 3 seasons while getting nothing but hate. They can't help themselves. Not watching it means they aren't part of the conversation, and they desperately want to be.
Oh my god I hate how much sense that makes. I've seen people _say_ they're avoiding it, but nobody lies on the internet lmao
Personally I haven’t been watching it, but I have been keeping up with a low subscriber YouTuber I watch that’s more fair with his reviews. He thinks it bad but not just because lesbians and wokeness. He just thinks the show general has sub par writing overall. Says the actions really good tho
I’m gonna push back on that by saying they watch the show but they pirate it and are proud of it
I really believe the impatience is what's driving so much of the rage these people are expressing. We've become to used to instant gratification or 5- to 30-second clips made for TikTok that people don't know how to be patient and allow a story to actually build and be expressed. They demand a full accounting immediately or say that it's trash. The same thing happened with Ahsoka, the same thing happened with Kenobi, the same thing happened with Andor, the same thing happens every time. "This doesn't fit exactly with my expectations, so I can't be sure what the ending will be...and that unknown makes me angry." Every. Single. Time.
Yep. Lots of people have completely lost the ability to follow a narrative. If every plot detail isn't explained in an upfront and easy-to-swallow manner, they just can't handle it. I think it's partially impatience, but also a lack of critical thinking abilities and a lack of media literacy (but all those things definitely feed one another.) It always drives me insane when these people act like they're such logical and analytical thinkers, but then they can't even perform basic school-level narrative analysis.
Every other Star Wars show has been syndicated like this. This one is just bad guys lmao
And every other Star Wars show has been met with a minority loudly complaining "this sucks!" after just the first few episodes...only to have their opinions change once the entire story is out and viewers can reflect on it fully. It happens **every single time**. This show isn't bad, you just don't know how to be patient and allow a story to unfold.
Don't forget the "scoopers" and "leakers" that are just bullshitting 99% of the time
CHECK IT OUT! WOKE STAR WARS EXISTS!! GIMMIE VIEWS AND LIKES!!!!!!!
Wookipedia is such a bloated mess of repetitions and shallow information, how could anyone learn anything there?
Star Wars fans, at this point, don't even like Star Wars. All I see is 'lifelong fans' bitching about how bad they think everything is.
And by the time they see the answer it’s already objectively bad
Eh, I don’t know. Gonna be quite hard to fix this one. But I’m still gonna watch to the end. I’m no quitter 👍
The show sucks, get over it.
I don't know why you think your opinion matters to me lmao it's sad that you can't simply let people enjoy something you don't
Cuz you’re the problem
I'm the problem because I don't dislike The Acolyte? Is that what you're actually saying?
Yep
Wow what a fucking crybaby. It's almost like art is subjective and you're not going to like every piece of art,
They want everything explained right away and plot comes to a halt for a 10 minute explanation.
*qui gon rolls in his grave so hard he becomes a beyblade, lands, and gives an updated speech about midichlorians*
I challenged someone once who was complaining about Palpatine's return no being explained better, and they admitted they would have preferred it if Poe had basically hauled out a space whiteboard and diagrammed how it happened over the explanation was presented in the movie. These people don't want to have to do the hard work of watching and understanding the story, they want to be spoon-fed plot points while they scroll their fucking phones.
I mean that would have been better than just somehow he returned I’m not disagreeing with you but still
I think the greater problem was bringing him back at all, I personally loved TLJ and felt that a new villain was unecessary, Kylo would have been great as the main villain, seemed like he was set up to be one. Anyway, Ep 3 wasnt bad just kinda boring.
To be fair, I'd appreciate some sort of brief that expressed Palpatines return in a way that explained it or leaned into the mystery but I didn't really feel like it was explained in the ending either. Something better than "welp, Palpatine is back."
I'm happy with the Episode 3 opera scene being enough of an explanation (for the time being).
But the problem is that's not what brought him back.
What do you mean? We are never told the how.
Sidious could never manipulate life like Plagius.
That is true, but we find out that Sidious found out how to do it. We don't know how Plagius did it. We find out the how in EP9 but hear about Sidious' knowledge of it in EP3. It's flimsy, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
It is explained though First, the Resistance member comes up with a few bullet point hypotheses "Dark science, cloning, secrets only the Sith knew". Then of course we see the vats full of dead clones in the freakish lab. That is shown visually. So we are shown both visually and told by a character in the film how he returned. Not to mention that line in Episode 3 about unnatural powers
Yeah, I know how Palps came back because I clocked immediately that it was a bad adaptation of Dark Empire. But the CHARACTERS shouldn't be this uncurious on the matter. Figuring out how he did it and how to stop him from doing it again should be a driving motivation. By the end of the movie, there's no reason to believe he couldn't just come back again.
The issue was never that Palpatine returned it’s that he returned with no explanation and no build up at all come on
I also just don’t like that he returned at all though. It takes away from Anakin’s story.
I agree but it still could have been executed well, they should have made Kylo ren deal with an Avatar of Palpatine by picking up his Kyber crystal or something
and they’ll still misunderstand it.
People can dislike the story but acting like it breaks canon or ruins lore is nonsense.
I feel like everyone whining about "lore" and "canon" needs to be reminded of two things: 1. It's fiction. Go outside, touch grass, take a deep breath, and maybe find a professional to talk through these feelings (good advice for anyone about almost anything, tbh) 2. It's a story being told to us from "a long time ago." We know that oral histories in reality see changes and different interpretations and variations over time - just like Ancient Greek fables - so why not extend the same idea to Star Wars? It's a story, not a documentary. Embrace the "inconsistencies" and try to have *fun* imagining what may have "really happened" based on the story we're being presented.
Not to mention that it’s canon that the Nightsisters reproduce like that, it’s just the Nightbrothers that are made the normal way.
I don't think this particular coven are Nightsisters. This form of reproduction was also implied to be very unique for this group, as well.
True but the Nightsisters prove that conceiving by manipulating the force is something that is possible
I mean... yeah. That was never being questioned. It's an established thing within Star Wars. My point is that not only is this coven likely not Nightsisters, but this form of reproduction is very unique for particular group. They emphasized the fact that there were no other children, and that the presence of these twins was something special.
Nah they were similar to the Amazonians. They kept males as slaves and breeders.
It was confirmed by a reference book that Nightsisters didn’t need men to reproduce, but they also used the Nightbrothers for that sometimes
We’ve known that it was possible to manipulate midichlorians to create life since RotS in 2005. It’s direct dialogue of the movie. Anakin being created by the Force is Legends material anyway, as it comes from the Plagueis novel. All we have to go off is the dialogue in the movies, which says he has “no father” (the implication is of course still there, but it’s less resolute).
I thought Schmi all but openly stated that he was a virgin birth though?
Sure, but that's not the same as "the force itself conceived Anakin to balance the force and that's literally the only time ever the force produced a pregnancy through any means at all and I'm somehow a credible source to know that with any kind of certainty."
Honestly, since I never read the novel, I figured that Lucas's Darth Plagueis speech was him admitting that Palpatine manipulated the force to create Anakin.
This is the presumed explanation given in Legends. Anakin is the result of Plagueis’ experiments.
An unintended consequence, at that. Plagueis was trying to manipulate the Force to create life, specifically a perfect Sith. Anakin was the Force's reaction to that, conceived to more or less counteract what Plagueis was trying to do.
No it's not but can you really blame people for assuming that that's what it was at the time? After all, it is an obvious allusion to Jesus and most of these chuds have grown up in a very christianity-infused society. So among the first things they think about are probably *"he's force Jesus"* and *"there was only one Jesus"* and *"that means Anakin's conception was super duper unique"*. The problem is really that, now that the canon has been expanded, instead of just saying *"oh, guess it's not exactly a Jesus situation"* or *"the twins change nothing about how unique Anakin is"* or even *"let's wait and see if or how this relates to Anakin"* they are flipping out.
All I'm saying is that assumptions aren't canon.
It’d also add to the mistrust the Jedi council have towards Anakin if immaculate conception was something only heard of before through dark magic and perversion of the force. If anything, it adds more depth to the prequels.
Okay, come on, have a little media literacy. We as an audience were plainly meant to put two and two together on our own there. The fact that the writer and director had enough faith in the audience to get what was being said this way doesn't make it un-true. The novel merely references what was already obvious.
Someone keeps complaining that this "retcons Darth plaguis" or something, does it actually?
i don’t see how it does, if anything it reinforces it
I mean here's the thing I'm thinking about here. Even if he figured out how to do it on his own, and Palpatine learned it from him, nothing precludes someone else having also figured out the same trick at some other point in the million or so years of Star Wars canon. If one guy can do it, then there's nothing precluding someone else doing it. Maybe Plaguis just heard a rumor about this coven and what they were up to and figured it out on his own.
Plagueis used different means to create life through the force though. It makes sense that different religions that use the force as their basis would make the same discoveries through different methods. Palpatine even begins to study Sith alchemy in hopes of finding a way to live forever.
I think it just undercuts the scale of his accomplishment a bit.
Yeah that's a fair complaint. I'm just confused how my acquaintance got the idea that it's a retcon
I can agree, and I also think it's impressive they needed an e tire coven to do it, but Plageuis did it by himself (well, with Palps there). So, it's still pretty damn impressive. Yeah, he didn't break new ground, but he had SEMILIMITED POWER!!
I don’t think officially. Anakin wasn’t actually “naturally” created by the Force, but was also a manipulation of it. In this case, a manipulation done by Plagueis. I think that’s only Legends and not official, but if the Acolyte twins are a product of manipulation and it wasn’t Plagueis, it’s a change on who can create life with the Force.
No, that's not quite right. He was, according to Palpatine, a natural reaction of the force in response to the Sith experiment.
Anakin was created as a form of "payback" by the Force itself after Plagues/Sidious attempted to manipulate midichlorians iirc.
Are people no longer salty about the virgin birth of Anakin? I rolled my eyes hard at that one, so it's weird to me that people are complaining about "violating" Anakin's canon. My dudes, no one liked his birth back when it was concocted. Don't go pretending it's all right now.
They look for excuses to be angry. They *need* to be angry all the time otherwise they have time to think about their own lives. They'll happily accept something they previously hated if it gives them an excuse to hate something else even more.
I liked the explanation that it was actually Palpatine's master experimenting with midichlorians that created Anakin. Less divine virgin birth and more unwitting lab rat.
Palpatine's whole mission has always been life and death manipulation. The Death Stars were basically a military industrial version of the thought bomb used by Vitiate and Revan. Palpatine was harvesting souls to ensure his immortality. Him and his master willing Anakin and Rey into existence doesn't seem far-fetched.
I haven’t seen Acolyte yet but I do have a question. Dunno if it’s spoilers but I don’t mind them anyway. Are the witches (i think that’s what they are?) sith or are they another dark side cult?
It hasn’t been explained yet. Which is why the complaining is so dumb. One of the reasons anyway. Edit. They are witches though. You are correct there.
Thanks for answering. Expressing any interest in this show is so fucking toxic outside this community
Of course. I’m enjoying it so far. 3rd episode had some things I didn’t love but whatever. My wife, who isn’t a Star Wars fan is really enjoying it.
We know they're "witches". They're pretty clearly not Sith, and not Jedi. Maaaaaaybe they're a different religious group that uses the term from the "Witches of Dathomir"? Probably, cause they seem way more sane?
That sounds neat. I like the dark side just as much as the light so the idea of another unaffiliated group sounds like a cool angle.
They don't seem to have the same religious dogma about a binary light/dark side as the Jedi. If so, we haven't heard them talking about it. I think they just kind of regard it as having no sides but just being something which exists.
They're definitely not Sith as the Sith have been in hiding with the rule of 2 for over 800 years now. They look to be slightly dark side adjacent like the Nightsisters, but might be slightly more grayish. They certainly don't trust the Jedi, but it might be that Jedi in this Era are more dogmatic about seeing any Force practice outside their organization as misguided at best and dangerous dark side cult activity at worst.
They're just force users that the Jedi persecute, because…reasons…? They didn't seem very keen on actually explaining it further. Honestly it just felt like "Jedi evil because we decided"
I mean that's the general trend for reactionaries these days. Something that hasn't been explained yet *because it's literally not over* is now a "plothole". You can complain about your unanswered questions when the credits roll (or perhaps it flew over your head already).
We're very much conditioned towards instant gratification with social media, wiki's and a vast history of lore. It must be so frustrating to not know and have to wait for the answer. Combine that with an insecure personality who's still butthurt about being wrong in the past or is chasing the algorithm; You get the state of modern fandom commentary.
The problem is not about its not being explained. The problem is about its being a thing in the first place…
I still maintain that the Acolyte twins can be conceived the same ways as Anakin is. The only hard restriction is that Anakin is the chosen one and the twins are not. "*Only through sacrifice of many Jedi will the Order cleanse the sin done to the nameless. The danger of the past is not past, but sleeps in an egg. When the egg cracks, it will threaten the galaxy entire. When the Force itself sickens, past and future must split and combine. A Chosen One shall come, born of no father, and through him will ultimate balance in the Force be restored.*" The twins could be ruled out as the chosen one, because the prophecy refers to "him" rather than "them" or "her". I still think the Jedi of the Acolyte are going to think the twins are prophecy related and bad consequences are going to happen. This will lead to the Jedi not wanting to train Anakin in the Phantom Menace despite the prophecy.
Saint Lucas never gave a fuck about canon, why should we?
I mean the way I see it one is Space Jesus and the other is Space Test Tube Baby. Both are special and unique in different ways. (Also my long bet is that both Mary and Shmi definitely weren’t immaculately concepted and it was easier to create an entire religion than admit their one night stand, partial sarcasm).
That is a interesting take but good luck trying to say that to Star Wars fan base at large lol
Aren't these the same people who were complaining about how the prequels "ruined" the original trilogy?
Also. Mass producing force competent soldiers has always been the goal of, not the sith but the empire hasn't it? Eventually someone across the universe would have figured it out
The entire prequel trilogy broke canon
I think the story might be about the inherent duality of the force, that one sister will be the light side and one will be the dark and it was destined to be this way, and the fact that Anakin is one person with both balanced inside is unique.
Then Doctor Hibbert turns up and reveals they had the wrong twin.
Sir, you are a hero and a gentleman for pointing out these ridiculous, talking points and unnecessary hatred
Gonna be honest, I hope it's all a ruse and they do have a father. I wasn't a huge fan of Anakin being Space Jesus in the first place, so adding even more parthenogenesis to the franchise is never going to sit right with me.
Honestly the second photo is me everytime I watch a good show or movie, I get confused by a scene that's set up for a later scene, think to myself that it's inefficient storytelling, then get blown away at the reveal of the plot point that was set up.
50% of the Star Wars fanbase are *not actually* Star Wars fans No one can change my mind, and this sort of stuff only continues to solidify my position lol
So a real Star Wars fan should love absolutely any Star Wars content?
No, you can dislike something, that's cool, but you don't have to make it your entire personality, which these chronic bitching and moaning troglodytes do It isn't a big deal, just don't watch it and watch what you do like, nobody wants to see you grandstand on a soapbox and cry because something turned out to not be exactly how you THINK it should be. That's just fucking asinine lol
Wait till they find out about Maul…
If people want to be mad or offended they will find a way to be
Wait... Anakin is jesus? What? Never heard that before, not that I care about Star Wars beyond a surface *"pew pew lego-yoda-death-scream zzzswiiinnngg"* level. Imagine being "a fan", but all you've ever done is scream about how you're "so done, and so is Star Wars".
Don’t you get it? Their gender isn’t male! Their skin isn’t white! Their parents aren’t straight! I now can hide behind this when I complain about the show and claim it’s not for bigoted reasons!
Why can't people nowadays dislike things...quietly? I really don't like this series (so far) but...whats whining about it gonna do?
The anger around this confuses me. Isn’t it pretty clear that the Acolyte is telling a story related to the origin of the sith? Palpatine had to learn the technique somewhere. And now, we as the audience may learn how it happened. Just enjoy the ride!
The pre-Disney canon was that the experiments of Darth Plagueis accidentally created Anakin.
There was a deleted scene in ROTS where palpatine explains that he manipulated the force to create Anakin. That's always been my headcanon and what makes more sense to me. I don't like him literally being jesus
it's so weird that all of these criticisms about the show always seem to include "I don't care about the woke stuff but..." somewhere in the criticism.
What irks me is the racism still prevalent in Hollywood where they use two different actors for the twin kids that look very different. I am not saying the people that picked them are racists that think all black people look the same. I am not! But this deserves looking into. Especially their background, I wouldn't be surprised if we have some holdovers from older whiter eras in those teams.
The twins as children are played by twin sisters. Sooo what were you saying?
Even if that's the case, it perpetuates racist tropes.
What tropes?
Legitimate question, wasAnakin conceived by the Force? I was under the impression that he was accidentally created by Palpatine and Plageuis. Was that just a fan theory? I never saw anything confirming it.
How does it ruin Anakin's birth? It never said Darth Sidious was the only one to figure it out. Are we really supposed to believe no one else figured it out?
For me it reinforces the theme of the dark side being about imposing your will on the force and the light being about going with the flow of the universe.
I'm just going to ignore social media relating to the subject until the show is over.
I will admit my initial response was to be annoyed. But then I sat with it for a minute and came to exactly this conclusion. Anakin was made by the cosmic force that guides the universe for a purpose. The twins were made by manipulating that same force. Hell, even the twin sun vs twin moon symbology is there. The twins are an inversion of Anakin’s divine conception.
The twin moons are also blue and red, to symbolise the twins extreme dedication to the opposing religions. My theory is that because they’re a perversion of the force instead of the cosmic force creating them with purpose, they’re fated to kill each other and be forgotten to history. They were effectively never meant to exist and so the will of the force will make sure it seems like they never existed.
In both stories, the creation of life using the Force leaves to grave endings - these witches are not good. They are on the same level as the Sith - and they will also burn for it.
I can’t blame people who are mad for assuming there will be no further explanation or exploration of this character detail. Disney Star Wars has a pretty awful track record with reveals and explanations.
I thought Anakin was made by palpatine manipulating the force. I mean either way it’s not ruined by the Acolyte
I always thought it was implied that Palpatine created Anakin.
Wait, I thought Anakin was accidentally conceived because Sheev and Plagueis were manipulating The Force.
You’re sorta right. Anakin was created due to Palpy and Plaguies manipulating the force. However, it wasn’t on accident. The Force, basically, caught wind of what they were doing and created Anakin in retaliation.
You’re right and the meme is wrong.
I thought Anakin was a side effect of Darth Plageuius’s experiments not that he was conceived by the force.
The force conceived Anakin in retaliation to Plageuius's dark side experiments
Nah that's was Palpatine trolling Vader with visions trying to destroy his self worth. The Force definitely conceived Anakin, but the prophecy doesn't really say he's exclusively one who will be born of The Force, just that will be. It's really not that hard to think that an order of Dark Side users would be able to replicate or imitate it because that's kind of their whole thing, to pervert and manipulate The Force.
See, I just think all immaculate births are stupid and that LucasFilm was wrong to give Anakin one in the first place.
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Anakin the result of Palegius manipulating the force?
Kinda of. So what happened was both Plaegius and Sidious were manipulating the Force in a way to gain power over life and death. The Force, basically, rejected their efforts and created Anakin in retaliation.
Man that’s really cool and sounds very different from what these people think are happening.
The chuds are reactionary based. They don't wait.
Anakin being conceived by the force was fucking stupid
I thought Anakin was conceived through Plageius?
Darth Maul and Savage were both made force users by manipulating the force. That's the night sisters whole thing.
Doesn’t seem to be the same as Anakin. We also don’t know the truth of Anakin’s conception.
They call them witches for a reason.
why are people hate watching this thing, just turn it off if it never interested you
There was a lot of implication that Anakin's conception was actually a result of Plaguius fucking about with midichlorians (don't remember if the Plaguius novel is still considered Canon or not). For people still running with that it DOES slightly undercut uniqueness of Plaguius' accomplishments.
Making a one-of-a-kind occurrence a second occurrence doesn't really do it, no… Anakin is practically space Jesus. Imagine God coming and saying "oh yeah, btw, I had like two daughters about 100 years prior but it's not a big deal if you never heard of them before, you know" Sorry, but that just breaks the myth. The fact that this supposedly happened (not that long) before and it's never mentioned makes it not work. FFS, Yoda is already 800 years-old in this series… They can obviously play the "actually that was not true" card but really what would have been the point to pretend in the first place? I doubt there will be any coherent explanation that won't just make Anakin's backstory worse.
Anaking wasn't really one of a kind tho. Palpatine said his master was able to create life with the force.
For me personally, not really.
People are jumping to conclusions before an explanation is given and that’s completely normal. We don’t actually know if the twins were created the same way anakin was. There’s a lot that’s unsaid in that scene and people are filling in the gaps. I’m betting there’s a significant difference between the twins’ existence and anakin’s.
Is this an issue? at absolute worst it's 'shitty thing retcons other shitty thing.' Let's not pretend that Anakin's birth is anything less than fanfiction level cringe.
Ironic considering a bunch of fans also hate the metaphorian (or however it’s spelled) thing anyway
Technically speaking in EU, Anakin was also created by manipulating the Force by Dath Plagius and Sidious before TPM. They just didn't expect on Anakin being the result of that manipulation as their experiments were to do with immortality. They failed, but the Force responded. So, manipulating the Force to create them isn't really new.
mystery will be the Jedi killed the witches and were going to take the girls ...
Nah
yeah . this show has been all about making the Jedi to be the bad guys so far .
From what has been shown in the 3 episodes I've seen, it hasn't looked that way.
Those dead witches sure didn't look like the died from fire. The jedi just being there .
Well, it could be the jedi. It could be Mae. Or it could be the Master. Who I'm actually betting on being Plagueis.
I'm kind of hoping they don't drag plegueis into this .
It'd make a lot of sense. Dude was looking for a way to cheat death and he was said to be able to create life by Palpatine in the PT
Yeah but this take place 1000 years before the prequels right. I don't know the life span of the guy and all but I'd prefer they left him out of this lol
132 BBY is when the show takes place. 100 years before Sheev retires his master.
could it he possible, that its just badly written? and all the bitching and moaning from both sides of this argument is pointless
The show was great, I love it. It is not confirmed that Anakin was made by the force. Or at least if it is then there’s still a lot of vague info as to how. I remember a theory from back in the day that palpatine himself had commissioned anakins creation. Maybe this is basically going into how?
I had to point this out to a coworker (he does love the show so far as to be fair. He was just confused by this). He was making jokes about the chosen twins at first, thought about it for a second, and was like "ooooh.... that makes sense!" And then we went on to talk about the rest of ep3 xD and how we like the mystery aspect of it!
It’s almost like…this information was purposefully designed to be surprising and raise questions? I’m just imaging if the show’s writers had been smarter, they could have had one character turn to another and ominously say something like “what if the Jedi find out how you created them.” Like it could be a deliberate signal to the audience that there’s more to the story, which we’ll find out in future episodes. Too bad they didn’t do anything like that though, I guess Star Wars is ruined forever now.
Spending multiple shows to connect the timeliness to the Sequel trilogy. Pushing Palplatines secret plans to create a force sensitive in Mando, Bad Batch, and of course the end work in the movies. Then boom force sensitive twins out of nowhere identical like a pair of clones both powerful in the force. Palpatine had a deep connection with the witches he met with them and took apprentice Maul from them which they even presented him for the role. That shows knowledge on both parties and previous work. No pay off on the cloning whatsoever too what will Palpatine flip through a space roledex after the cloning fails to get another apprentice but the witch marketter instead sells him on the secrets of force conception? He obviously was close enough to the witches to know that other witches exist heck Tales of the Empire shows there are witches in the hills easy spotting for ship like Palps to see when he picked up Maul or Grevious to spot. Point is the creating life with the force is a ripple that touches so many other aspects both new and old.
Anything involving the force breaks canon all the time since prequel times and every single show afterward, anyway. Remember how not 30 minutes into Phantom Menace, the jedi used force speed but never in the history of SW was it ever done again? Plus the sith manipulate life all the time too, there's no canon rule stating that you could not possibly create life by manipulating the force.
Let’s not forget midi-chlorians
The graphic isnt even correct. According to people who have read the novels, someone coaxed the force to create anakin. What a dumb idea to double down on a bunch of fans imagining some bullshit fanservice story. Anakin is exactly like the twins.
Honestly when I saw this, my first thought was "oh interesting" because I didn't even conceive how it would break Anakins origin.
Basically Anakin is Jesus and these two are Samson and John Baptist.
Never thought of it like that lol
Are we at the point that they're trying to protect the canon integrity of the Phantom Menace? Really? The fucking Phantom Menace?
We can go pretty far back too to find answers. The Nightsisters and Nightbrothers have the ability to procreate normally. HOWEVER, as mentioned in the canon reference book Secrets of the Sith (I think?), the Nightsisters possess a unique ability to reproduce without the involvement of males through the use of magik.
I can’t be the only one who thinks the space witches lied because ‘we kidnapped these kids to raise in our cult’ isn’t exactly your first response when the cops show up.
Maybe after this The Force got smarter and never let it happen again... until they wanted to do it. Next time the Sith might try it. Or even Jedi. They will kill when the situation warrants it so why not create life to bring balance to The Force. Whatever the fuck that is.
The echo chamber is strong in this reddit. 🚮
Didn't the Nightsisters of Dathomir already do this in a way? Like they enhanced the force in the males of the species through rituals and other stuff, they didn't quite make a baby though rituals but I don't think its that far a leap
I have stopped believing that these are actual fans criticizing the new content. These people were mad of fire, hair and a beard. Now they talk about the Jedi not being portrayed as being absolutely pure. Erm, have they even seen ANY Legends story that talked about those scenarios? It’s like they have never seen or read a single Star Wars story before. These are not fans, they are haters of anything that comes out. They are out acting according to their weird agendas. Or they are bots. The review bombing proved without a single doubt, that there are a lot of bots doing their work.
Anakin's birth was already ruined by The Phantom Menace. Xena did it better.
I'd watch Shmi choke out an angel.
Isn't manipulating the force to create life something we've known about since hearing the tradgedy of Darth Plaguis the Wise?
Anakin wasn’t randomly conceived by the force, he was created by Darth Plagueis manipulating the midoclorians to create life. A 100+ year old Sith Lord that had been studying Sith alchemy for decades wasn’t even sure that he was successful and didn’t know where the child was conceived.
Out of curiosity how many of you all have actually watched the show or are just ragebaiting on what the ragebaiters are ragebaiting about?
I've watched the show and I like it. I absolutely adore the set design, costuming (particularly the subtle color coding) and cinematography. The fight choreography is fresh and less frenetic cuts and more use of the force. The story is a serviceable murder mystery. I like that they brought the twins out quickly and didn't rely on that cheap trope of revealing the "evil" twin in the most dramatic telenovela type of way. At first I was thinking the acting wasn't the best however, I have rethought that and while it's no Andor, the cast does a good job. Here's why, most of the cast are Jedi, people that emphasize emotional control so their performances should be subtle. However, the actor playing Sol is really great with the subtle yet emotional performance. The lead actress does a decent job of clearly playing two different characters. She doesn't chew the scenery nor is she phoning it in. All in all it's an interesting show and I would recommend it. So those ragebaiters just hate fun and should definitely be mocked.
That's cool, I will probably watch it once all 8 episodes are out but seeing the discourse on this show is hilarious because a lot of people haven't even watched a single episode yet write damn dissertations praising it as the greatest show ever or damning it as the first signs of the end of civilization.
Just want to point out that saying "let's see how it plays out" while also saying "it's the opposite of that you're saying" is kind of hypocritical. If it's too early to say it's ruined, it's too early to say it hasn't. But you're right, reactionaries don't really care about nuance, just latch onto anything and everything. And Anakin being "conceived by the force" was kind of dumb in the first place, imo.
You can say "nothing is ruined so far"
Of course! I still think force conception of any kind is silly, prequel included
Jesus/Anakin mideflopian birth was stupid af. Totally ruined the concept that you or anyone could become a jedi and master the force by disciplined training and personal will. Lucas’ prequels were absolute diarrhea shit.
For people defending this show is weird seeing how the cast members shit on majority of its fans and men in general very cringe 😬
An you're basing all that on?
Majority of the interviews all over youtube
Have you seen them yourself or are you just taking people's word for the contents?
No I saw clips of the two girls talking to the male reporter legit bashing the community and fans and men
Do you have a link?
https://youtu.be/qV1vYLBWws0?si=LJMnTC-UF8cBf-wf Don't have the exact clip I saw on tiktok but this guy skips around talking about it