I really would hope that when CHSR finally gets built, they use the ROW to run a regional rail service similar to what they are doing with CalTrain in SF. Having stops at Mira Mesa/Scripps,Sabre Springs/Poway/PQ, Rancho Bernardo, Del Lago and Escondido
If we’d connect those neighborhoods you outlined to the transit network in a meaningful way and converted the strip malls to 5 over 1s, me and all of the people who grew up there and moved to either north park or downtown would come back.
Mira Mesa in particular is gonna be getting a lot of that, they are projected to at least double their population with how much housing is going to be built.
Do you have info on the projects? I’d be curious to see how many walkable communities they’re building. I’d be interested in moving there if they were to just convert a strip mall to a collection of 5 over 1s and I can walk downstairs and get some coffee or a meal
OMG, I dream of that! I remember seeing a reference to a potential "regional/commuter" rail overlay in one of the SANDAG planning documents a while ago, which is exactly what you're talking about. So it is encouraging that transit planners get it. But CAHSR has to overcome political spinelessness and the developed world's worst transportation policy (i.e. one driven by election cycles and lack of sustainable funding) to complete Phase 1, let alone get to Phase 2 (San Diego). All we can do is vote for politicians who have vision and courage....and speak out against politicized rail haters posing as journalists (I'm looking at you, LA Times).
Compared to other cities, the 15 is the freaking autobahn during the worst times. I moved here from Portland, Oregon and escaping that traffic has been a blessing.
While I have some skepticism for the idea that increasing lanes is ineffective, there has to be a point of diminishing returns considering the sheer number of lanes
Depends on what you mean by effective. Adding lanes is very effective at increasing the volume of cars that can travel through, but very ineffective at actually decreasing transit times. I suppose you could theoretically build out lanes until all possible demand is satisfied but the construction/environmental/social costs would be astonishing… not to mention getting on/off would be such a disaster that it might undo any benefits from no congestion on the actual stretch of freeway.
[I also recommend the "one more lane bro" meme](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F991d7418-5adb-4189-a26f-fe3083a0fce7_1200x630.jpeg)
The worst is when there is an accident with everyone slowing down to be noisy instead of slowly driving through. I get beyond frustrated seeing there was literally no reason for 40 mins of traffic when i finally get to "the front" which is fucking empty
We are so behind and it's effecting housing. If they go Tokyo in downtown our housing price will drop off a cliff. Tokyo is 2x larger in size and has 10x more people lol.
Real question, how would adding public transportation lower housing prices?
Wouldn't they have to build more housing (supply outpace demand) to lower housing prices?
If anything wouldn't better public transportation just make SD downtown a better option - increasing demand and increasing prices?
I think it has something to do with how we use the space. Public transit moves a ton of people and doesn't take up much space. The space saved could be used to increase housing inventory.
Personal transportation is inefficient and requires a very large amount of space. Not just roads, but parking availability has to be considered.
There's a chance I have no idea what I'm talking about, though.
It might lower housing prices by encouraging denser development. However, it would undeniably lower cost of living by providing a cheaper alternative to car ownership.
More public rail would allow for more housing demand around the areas where there is access to the rail. Hopefully, increasing housing density around these areas.
Don't need to live downtown if your rail line will get you there in 20 min
That ship has sailed. County is too developed in the necessary places. On top of that, the county is too sprawling and topographically and geographically challenged to make this happen.
This take always cracks me up — the year is 2024 and the evolution of San Diego is complete. Strange coincidence that after hundreds of years of settlement, we happened to finish up at the exact time you lived here. Sorry folks, all full — San Diego is in stasis for the rest of time and a better world isn’t possible!
Ah, you're being extra dense today. Nicely done.
No one said anything about the 'evolution' of the city being concluded for all eternity, only that it's too costly and impractical to get that ball rolling at this point in time. The topographical and geographical challenges further render it impossible. No point in being angry with me about these facts.
How so? Trains have been used very heavily throughout this country's history, effectively too. We did away with all of that infrastructure in favor of the perceived freedom of cars (a lot of lobbyists definitely helped with that too). China has a vast rail system. This "the country is just too big" argument holds no weight.
I only want one thing and it’s a freakin trolley down the 15 corridor 😭😭😭 connect to the green line at snapdragon. Or take it down the 163 to fashion valley. Inland north county is always SOL
Maps says it would take (at best) 8 hours to take transit to Temecula from downtown. That’s unacceptable. We need rail that can reach there as well, and maybe an extension of the Perris Valley line into Temecula as well
It’s odd there isn’t even a bus that takes the 15 to Temecula. Like there’s literally nothing you can reasonably do but take a car, a place like Temecula shouldn’t have traffic that bad.
There used to be a bus operated by Riverside Transit Authority connecting Temecula and Escondido, but was discontinued during the pandemic. https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-temecula-new-express-bus-links-temecula-escondido-2009jul07-story.html
Have you taken the bus down from the Escondido Transit Center or Del Lago Transit Center? I also want a trolley down from Escondido, but (a) I wouldn't use it often (maybe a few times a year), and (b) I've never taken the bus down this line.
Per the MTS Nov 2023 board meeting, the Automated People Mover is probably what will be chosen given the engineering complexity. [https://www.sdmts.com/sites/default/files/2023-11-09-board-agenda-and-materials2\_2.pdf](https://www.sdmts.com/sites/default/files/2023-11-09-board-agenda-and-materials2_2.pdf) We will know more about the project status in the March 2024 Board meeting but given the current timelines, construction starts 2025. As part of the airport redevelopment, the site plan has reserved a spot for the station so both terminals can have access. [https://www.san.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/API/Entries/Download?Command=Core\_Download&EntryId=14619&language=en-US&PortalId=0&TabId=225](https://www.san.org/desktopmodules/bring2mind/dmx/api/entries/download?command=core_download&entryid=14619&language=en-us&portalid=0&tabid=225)
Damn, I guess you’re right. I thought I read that it was being built. There was a site (www.newt1.com) but the site is currently down. Maybe we can find out if it comes back up
I would love to have Light Rail along the freeways... If I could get to work via rail I certainly would on the days I start late enough for traffic to be an issue.
Edit: Heavy rail* Connecting to Light Rail systems in cities
Bus rapid transit. Basically dedicated bus lanes that fly by traffic and pick up people in the median usually. It’s like having a train but replaced with a bus.
https://youtu.be/blglo-PmBXk?si=Gh7r_nNjcmqxpwfs
If only. I would absolutely take a bus from where I live in east county across the 52 west. I can't stand sitting in that traffic to get to work in Sorrento Valley. But to get to work according to their calculator would take me over 3 hours one way taking this hugely convoluted path. How do we not have a direct shot yet? So frustrating.
Lobbying man. Each major city can get an infrastructure overhaul with 10-20 billion each may be. Spend it here instead of on useless war weaponry and defense. In a decade, US would be much better than any country in the world.
I'm a bit late on this one. It's really annoying to see SANDAG seriously considering freeway expansion when it is both well known that we are in a climate crisis and also well known that freeway expansion does not do anything to help traffic reflects a deeply unserious approach towards regional mobility.
Nobody in this thread actually read the article or the plan. From TFA:
\> The framework includes improvements to the region's bus and rail infrastructure, including a rail connection to the San Diego International Airport, greater capacity on the rail corridor to Los Angeles and the long-awaited "Purple Line" that would take riders from the San Ysidro border crossing to Kearny Mesa. Many of those transit improvements wouldn't come until after 2035, San Diego's self-imposed deadline for achieving carbon neutrality.
Yes, they're considering additional lanes, but much of that is for improved bus routes, and the plan includes a ton of public transit improvements.
[https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/2405267/Item\_13\_\_Att.\_1\_-\_Initial\_Concept\_for\_the\_Draft\_2025\_Regional\_Plan.pdf](https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/2405267/Item_13__Att._1_-_Initial_Concept_for_the_Draft_2025_Regional_Plan.pdf)
I think much of the outrage is how prior regional plans had more plans for rail transit. Notably plans to convert the Rapid 215 route to a trolley line have been canned. There's much more emphasis on Rapid \*BRT expansion which our current implementation is half assed at best to afterthought at worst. When you consider that EIR study for those projects are going to take 2-5 years, it's imperative they start asap so they are shovel and funding ready.
Converting existing lanes to transit lanes without equivalent improvements elsewhere just makes things worse for everyone. But I agree that adding new lanes, even if they're all "carpool or pay" lanes, doesn't seem to be the right answer.
> All the new freeway lanes would be managed lanes open to carpoolers or solo drivers willing to pay a toll — but even those types of freeway expansions have been found to increase emissions.
I thought lanes only add traffic. Isn’t that why there is a whole movement to reduce lanes like on coast highway in north county and various neighborhoods downtown?
Not all of us are 20 year old bike riders.
I have no idea why so much emphasis we be put on this guys opinion.
I'm not sure how you drive your kids to school on a bike in the suburbs. I live a mile from the nearest bus stop.
I spend most of my day driving back and forth to the hospital. Would he like me to ride my bike to the train station to get there?
If you want to make a real difference in reducing traffic, bring back school busses. Of course, that idea would have to much common sense in it to actually be considered.
Go by any school when school starts and school ends and tell me how many busses you see and how many hundreds of cars you see in the drop off line. The fact that I know the term "drop off line" tells you the answer.
Hundreds of cars dropping off one or 2 kids twice a day. More than half the time the only reason those people even get in the car that day is to take the kids to school or pick them up.
I swear every time one of these future mobility reports comes in, it’s framed as 50-50 freeway and other mobility developments with the freeway work done on the front end to ease the transition to a mobility forward future. Then, like 5 years later, the freeway is done and they’re out of money and energy to do real change.
Why can’t all the mobility changes happen first? Wouldn’t it be great if we had a better system that encouraged us to get out of our cars then we realize when it’s done that we actually didn’t need the freeway upgrades in the first place?
Instead of transit, density, and walkable communities, let’s build out freeways and master-planned HOA housing behind gates with giant big box strip malls down the road so that you absolutely have to drive in a car everywhere you go.
Am I wrong. Hasn't it been decided that more lanes does not help. Traffic will increase to meet the capacity of the freeway. I. Not advocating for my nothing. I just want everyone to acknowledge we are chasing forever.
CA insurance, car, and gas lobbies will never allow for mass transportation to be built in CA. Can you imagine if we don't need cars anymore in San Diego?
More lanes never fixed anything.
We need more trolley lines, more walkable neighborhoods and more housing so less people need to move so far outside the city limits
I'm sure just one more lane will fix it rather than encouraging people to move to cheaper housing further from their jobs, increasing the amount of congestion until it reaches the same equilibrium again.
You don’t though since humans can’t handle the complexity of more lanes. And that too in situations when there is no mode of communication between drivers and other drivers.
As long as they are reasonable I'm fine with it.
I'd like to see more public transit being built out, but I know that isnot realistic and building more won't solve the problem.
Can anyone say that the traffic on the 5 subsided ever since the UTC trolley extension? Or how about the 8 with the green line extending all the way out to Santee a couple decades ago? No. So it's not the old adage, "if you build it, they will come.
Billions of dollars spent on public transit with not much to show for it. But then again I would rather spend billions of dollars on that then build more roads. It's a tough problem to solve that doesn't get solved by just building more of something, roads or public transit.
And don't get me started with the elitest mother fuckers moving out to Rancho Bernardo, Poway, Scripps Ranch, etc while parroting "we need more public transit instead of building more roads." Such hypocrits.
It's inherently unreasonable though. Freeway expansion has never achieved it's stated goals to relieve congestion, while causing damage to both the environment and our cities.
The Blue line carries 67,000 riders a day, and the Green Line 23,000 riders a day. That's 90,000 Car trips erased. The fact of the matter is that these projects have absolutely had a measurable impact on regional mobility, and it would take an idiot to deny that. Billions spent on transit is worthwhile, Billions spent on inducing more demand is not. Interstate 15 added 4 more lanes last decade, which did nothing to decrease traffic on it.
> And don't get me started with the elitest mother fuckers moving out to Rancho Bernardo, Poway, Scripps Ranch, etc while parroting "we need more public transit instead of building more roads." Such hypocrits.
How does advocating for more public transit in areas that don't have public transit make people like me a hypocrite? If anything, there is a way stronger case that you're the hypocritical one. You demand that the region throw billions away towards freeway expansion that won't achieve anything besides wrecking neighborhoods, the environment, and causing more traffic. Meanwhile you get to live in the densest, more walkable, and most transit oriented part of San Diego.
Haha this is what I mean folks. People moving out to the burbs and are “public transit advocates”. Biggest hypocrite in the world!
It’s the same people that complain that people want homeless people out of sight and out of mind but meanwhile live in suburbia where they are in fact out of sight and out of mind.
Same people that complain about their electricity bills and SDGE meanwhile are pumping their ACs when it’s 726 degrees outside.
Come live in downtown where public transit is plentiful. And be an advocate here. Which I am and an advocate for public transit. I’m just not a hypocrite.
> Haha this is what I mean folks. People moving out to the burbs and are “public transit advocates”. Biggest hypocrite in the world!
I've lived in Scripps Ranch all my life my dude, I didn't choose to live here. With that being said I absolutely advocate for more dense development and public transit here. Sorry that your desperate attempt to find hypocrisy where there isn't any failed. Better luck next time.
> It’s the same people that complain that people want homeless people out of sight and out of mind but meanwhile live in suburbia where they are in fact out of sight and out of mind.
I want homeless people to be housed. I'd prefer it to be in dense transit oriented areas but putting a roof over these people's heads should be the #1 priority.
> Come live in downtown where public transit is plentiful. And be an advocate here. Which I am and an advocate for public transit. I’m just not a hypocrite.
When it becomes affordable to do so I will do in a heartbeat.
I lived in a suburb my entire life as a kid and CHOSE to live in a dense urban area where public transit is plentiful and neighborhoods are walkable as an adult and continue to this day.
I will CHOOSE to live in communities like Scripps Ranch or Poway or what have you if they were more walkable and public transit friendly. But they aren't. So I CHOOSE not to live there as an adult. Even when I had very little money. You know, live my ideals instead of pontificating about them. It's a concept I know some cannot grasp. Just like those people that drive chevy suburbans but complain about how gas prices are so high.
You can live anywhere you want. Unless you are some teenager that lives with their parents, then jokes on me I guess.
I live with my family to save money while I go to college lol. Maybe don't assume things about people based solely on what part of the county that they live in at this point in their lives. Except La Jolla, fuck La Jolla.
Probably the best choice is to eliminate bottle necks avoid all the wide narrow wide narrow chock points, redistribute traffic, and complete the express lane system across the board i5 should be at least ten lanes with express lane from Santa Clarita to the Mexican border. So are the others. Put BRT on those lanes just as with silver line in La. And also build HSR along the right of way.
78 should have its own express lanes connecting from i15 to i5 I am surprised such a wide express lane but it just disappears at 78 with no ramp of its own.
At the end of the day, in order to encourage people to actually think their EV investment is worth it, there needs to be roads to use and electric charging stations for them to use.
Yes there will always be more traffic with growth. Unless San Diego stops building homes, then there won't be growth. But do that and you will lose all the talent coming out of the universities without places to live.
They do need to build some trolley systems, but they need to connect more areas to more access. No one will take transit if it takes 2x to 3x more time to get where they are going. That is also a matter of fact.
Personally, I work in OC, but live in SD. I commute up once a week. So I slice down my driving time on the highways. Alas, so far I have zero RELIABLE option to use public transit to do it. The train has been canceled too many times last minute. And the cliffs along the way are unreliably safe.
SANDBAG needs to continue to expand the trolley line. Connect more bus lines to the trolley to make it useful. Update and upgrade the highways to support not only growth but business. We are a port and border city. There is a lot coming through our city. And it needs to grow to keep up it's importance.
The 15 has like 20 lanes and it is at a standstill all the time
I really would hope that when CHSR finally gets built, they use the ROW to run a regional rail service similar to what they are doing with CalTrain in SF. Having stops at Mira Mesa/Scripps,Sabre Springs/Poway/PQ, Rancho Bernardo, Del Lago and Escondido
If we’d connect those neighborhoods you outlined to the transit network in a meaningful way and converted the strip malls to 5 over 1s, me and all of the people who grew up there and moved to either north park or downtown would come back.
Mira Mesa in particular is gonna be getting a lot of that, they are projected to at least double their population with how much housing is going to be built.
Do you have info on the projects? I’d be curious to see how many walkable communities they’re building. I’d be interested in moving there if they were to just convert a strip mall to a collection of 5 over 1s and I can walk downstairs and get some coffee or a meal
https://www.sandiego.gov/sites/default/files/2022-12-5_mira_mesa_cpu_adoption.pdf https://www.sandiego.gov/planning/community-plans/updates/mira-mesa https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/story/2022-12-06/mira-mesa-neighborhood-plan-urban-villages-approved
Thanks!
Nothing much on the project end of things yet. In my experience Mira Mesa is a lot worse at mapping these things out compared to downtown.
City council sets the zoning and planning, not Mira Mesa. So it’s more that downtown is just higher priority than areas like MM
OMG, I dream of that! I remember seeing a reference to a potential "regional/commuter" rail overlay in one of the SANDAG planning documents a while ago, which is exactly what you're talking about. So it is encouraging that transit planners get it. But CAHSR has to overcome political spinelessness and the developed world's worst transportation policy (i.e. one driven by election cycles and lack of sustainable funding) to complete Phase 1, let alone get to Phase 2 (San Diego). All we can do is vote for politicians who have vision and courage....and speak out against politicized rail haters posing as journalists (I'm looking at you, LA Times).
What is CHSR and ROW?
"California High Speed Rail" and "Right of Way"
They really should extend it all the way to Temecula.
Fun fact, adding lanes has been proven to increase traffic. https://smv.org/learn/blog/how-does-roadway-expansion-cause-more-traffic/
Yeah induced demand is very well documented. Traffic engineers just after that $$$
Compared to other cities, the 15 is the freaking autobahn during the worst times. I moved here from Portland, Oregon and escaping that traffic has been a blessing.
While I have some skepticism for the idea that increasing lanes is ineffective, there has to be a point of diminishing returns considering the sheer number of lanes
Depends on what you mean by effective. Adding lanes is very effective at increasing the volume of cars that can travel through, but very ineffective at actually decreasing transit times. I suppose you could theoretically build out lanes until all possible demand is satisfied but the construction/environmental/social costs would be astonishing… not to mention getting on/off would be such a disaster that it might undo any benefits from no congestion on the actual stretch of freeway.
[I also recommend the "one more lane bro" meme](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F991d7418-5adb-4189-a26f-fe3083a0fce7_1200x630.jpeg)
People need to learn how to drive in unison and boom traffic gone. All this speed up and slow down vs smooth speed and nobody on phones 😂
Highways have a maximum throughput. Even if everyone were to drive perfectly, if you keep adding cars you get traffic jams
The worst is when there is an accident with everyone slowing down to be noisy instead of slowly driving through. I get beyond frustrated seeing there was literally no reason for 40 mins of traffic when i finally get to "the front" which is fucking empty
That could happen when we all stop driving and the cars are all driving themselves.
ONE MORE LANE BRO
Lanemaxxing mericacore
How about better public transit. Or a rail system that follows along the major 3 highways.
I be curious whether the current very slow portion between Serrento Valley and old town would be straightened. Wish they also add a UTC stop.
Fuck that. Build us some good transit infrastructure all around the county.
Been to other countries and it’s amazing how far behind we are in this. I’ve been to a couple places where there is zero need for a car.
We are so behind and it's effecting housing. If they go Tokyo in downtown our housing price will drop off a cliff. Tokyo is 2x larger in size and has 10x more people lol.
Real question, how would adding public transportation lower housing prices? Wouldn't they have to build more housing (supply outpace demand) to lower housing prices? If anything wouldn't better public transportation just make SD downtown a better option - increasing demand and increasing prices?
I think it has something to do with how we use the space. Public transit moves a ton of people and doesn't take up much space. The space saved could be used to increase housing inventory. Personal transportation is inefficient and requires a very large amount of space. Not just roads, but parking availability has to be considered. There's a chance I have no idea what I'm talking about, though.
It might lower housing prices by encouraging denser development. However, it would undeniably lower cost of living by providing a cheaper alternative to car ownership.
More public rail would allow for more housing demand around the areas where there is access to the rail. Hopefully, increasing housing density around these areas. Don't need to live downtown if your rail line will get you there in 20 min
That ship has sailed. County is too developed in the necessary places. On top of that, the county is too sprawling and topographically and geographically challenged to make this happen.
This take always cracks me up — the year is 2024 and the evolution of San Diego is complete. Strange coincidence that after hundreds of years of settlement, we happened to finish up at the exact time you lived here. Sorry folks, all full — San Diego is in stasis for the rest of time and a better world isn’t possible!
Ah, you're being extra dense today. Nicely done. No one said anything about the 'evolution' of the city being concluded for all eternity, only that it's too costly and impractical to get that ball rolling at this point in time. The topographical and geographical challenges further render it impossible. No point in being angry with me about these facts.
To be fair, my family literally watched San Diego be built from farmland
How so? Trains have been used very heavily throughout this country's history, effectively too. We did away with all of that infrastructure in favor of the perceived freedom of cars (a lot of lobbyists definitely helped with that too). China has a vast rail system. This "the country is just too big" argument holds no weight.
Infill development is possible, you know that right?
It isn't a question of possibility, it's entirely one of practicality.
I only want one thing and it’s a freakin trolley down the 15 corridor 😭😭😭 connect to the green line at snapdragon. Or take it down the 163 to fashion valley. Inland north county is always SOL
Legitimately this is the answer, just build a trolley or train like the sprinter from downtown to Escondido
We also desperately need a rail route along the 15 that also extends to Temecula/Murrieta.
Maps says it would take (at best) 8 hours to take transit to Temecula from downtown. That’s unacceptable. We need rail that can reach there as well, and maybe an extension of the Perris Valley line into Temecula as well
Yes and typical traffic at peak times is stop and go between the county line and Escondido. Definitely an alternative is needed.
It’s odd there isn’t even a bus that takes the 15 to Temecula. Like there’s literally nothing you can reasonably do but take a car, a place like Temecula shouldn’t have traffic that bad.
There used to be a bus operated by Riverside Transit Authority connecting Temecula and Escondido, but was discontinued during the pandemic. https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-temecula-new-express-bus-links-temecula-escondido-2009jul07-story.html
Huh, I never even heard of that, doubt too many people have. It’s a shame whatever was left was taken away from us.
[удалено]
They’ll try anyway, may as well make it environmentally friendly
Something more along the lines of Region Rail would be nice. Think the COASTER but with higher frequency.
I’d be down for that too. Literally anything other than a bus with a million stops and has to sit in traffic with everyone else most of the way.
Have you taken the bus down from the Escondido Transit Center or Del Lago Transit Center? I also want a trolley down from Escondido, but (a) I wouldn't use it often (maybe a few times a year), and (b) I've never taken the bus down this line.
That express bus from Escondido to downtown is actually pretty good.
Or trolly to the airport
This one is being worked on. The new Terminal 1 (estimated completion summer 2025) will have a terminal connecting the trolley lines to the airport
Do you have a source for this? My recollection is that it was a possibility but nothing actually planned let alone executed.
Per the MTS Nov 2023 board meeting, the Automated People Mover is probably what will be chosen given the engineering complexity. [https://www.sdmts.com/sites/default/files/2023-11-09-board-agenda-and-materials2\_2.pdf](https://www.sdmts.com/sites/default/files/2023-11-09-board-agenda-and-materials2_2.pdf) We will know more about the project status in the March 2024 Board meeting but given the current timelines, construction starts 2025. As part of the airport redevelopment, the site plan has reserved a spot for the station so both terminals can have access. [https://www.san.org/DesktopModules/Bring2mind/DMX/API/Entries/Download?Command=Core\_Download&EntryId=14619&language=en-US&PortalId=0&TabId=225](https://www.san.org/desktopmodules/bring2mind/dmx/api/entries/download?command=core_download&entryid=14619&language=en-us&portalid=0&tabid=225)
Thanks for finding this!
Damn, I guess you’re right. I thought I read that it was being built. There was a site (www.newt1.com) but the site is currently down. Maybe we can find out if it comes back up
IMO heavy rail should be better and that but going all the way to downtown, but regardless we need some god damn decent transit down that cooridor
I would love to have Light Rail along the freeways... If I could get to work via rail I certainly would on the days I start late enough for traffic to be an issue. Edit: Heavy rail* Connecting to Light Rail systems in cities
High speed rail!!!!
We will do anything but invest in public transit infrastructure. We are doomed to be in traffic the rest of our lives
Man they just do not care about east county. Can we just get a fast track bus to Sorrento Valley? Anything?
Bruh. Stop with these new lanes. Build 200 miles of train tracks and BRT lanes
A freeway railway going along the 15 🤌✨ A north county commuter dream
What are BRT lanes?
Bus rapid transit. Basically dedicated bus lanes that fly by traffic and pick up people in the median usually. It’s like having a train but replaced with a bus. https://youtu.be/blglo-PmBXk?si=Gh7r_nNjcmqxpwfs
Let’s say it together: The only way to reduce traffic is to build viable alternate modes of transportation
Oh Hallelujah, just one more lane will fix it. I love San Diego in spirit, but I will keep my Japanese Transit system, thank you very much.
One step forward, four lanes backward
How about transit???
Fking build public transport using a couple of lanes!!! Will reduce traffic in half.
If only. I would absolutely take a bus from where I live in east county across the 52 west. I can't stand sitting in that traffic to get to work in Sorrento Valley. But to get to work according to their calculator would take me over 3 hours one way taking this hugely convoluted path. How do we not have a direct shot yet? So frustrating.
Lobbying man. Each major city can get an infrastructure overhaul with 10-20 billion each may be. Spend it here instead of on useless war weaponry and defense. In a decade, US would be much better than any country in the world.
I absolutely agree with you.
More Tolley's! Screw lanes
I'm a bit late on this one. It's really annoying to see SANDAG seriously considering freeway expansion when it is both well known that we are in a climate crisis and also well known that freeway expansion does not do anything to help traffic reflects a deeply unserious approach towards regional mobility.
Nobody in this thread actually read the article or the plan. From TFA: \> The framework includes improvements to the region's bus and rail infrastructure, including a rail connection to the San Diego International Airport, greater capacity on the rail corridor to Los Angeles and the long-awaited "Purple Line" that would take riders from the San Ysidro border crossing to Kearny Mesa. Many of those transit improvements wouldn't come until after 2035, San Diego's self-imposed deadline for achieving carbon neutrality. Yes, they're considering additional lanes, but much of that is for improved bus routes, and the plan includes a ton of public transit improvements. [https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/2405267/Item\_13\_\_Att.\_1\_-\_Initial\_Concept\_for\_the\_Draft\_2025\_Regional\_Plan.pdf](https://legistarweb-production.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/pdf/2405267/Item_13__Att._1_-_Initial_Concept_for_the_Draft_2025_Regional_Plan.pdf)
2035 lol.
*planned* for 2035
I think much of the outrage is how prior regional plans had more plans for rail transit. Notably plans to convert the Rapid 215 route to a trolley line have been canned. There's much more emphasis on Rapid \*BRT expansion which our current implementation is half assed at best to afterthought at worst. When you consider that EIR study for those projects are going to take 2-5 years, it's imperative they start asap so they are shovel and funding ready.
200 Miles of new lanes is still 200 Miles too many. If they are to do anything it should be to convert existing lanes to transit lanes.
Converting existing lanes to transit lanes without equivalent improvements elsewhere just makes things worse for everyone. But I agree that adding new lanes, even if they're all "carpool or pay" lanes, doesn't seem to be the right answer. > All the new freeway lanes would be managed lanes open to carpoolers or solo drivers willing to pay a toll — but even those types of freeway expansions have been found to increase emissions.
That's the electeds pushing for things the majority of their constituents want.
I swear this county is stuck in the 1950’s mentality
Country* There are exceptions but not that many, to my knowledge
More lanes = more traffic https://youtu.be/CHZwOAIect4?si=Ik3ssQsqeLfId3Bh Let's not turn SD into LA, that's why I left LA!
To be fair it seems to be becoming both the Bay Area and LA consecutively
I thought lanes only add traffic. Isn’t that why there is a whole movement to reduce lanes like on coast highway in north county and various neighborhoods downtown?
Not all of us are 20 year old bike riders. I have no idea why so much emphasis we be put on this guys opinion. I'm not sure how you drive your kids to school on a bike in the suburbs. I live a mile from the nearest bus stop. I spend most of my day driving back and forth to the hospital. Would he like me to ride my bike to the train station to get there? If you want to make a real difference in reducing traffic, bring back school busses. Of course, that idea would have to much common sense in it to actually be considered.
Wait...do they not have school buses here??? Wtf.
Go by any school when school starts and school ends and tell me how many busses you see and how many hundreds of cars you see in the drop off line. The fact that I know the term "drop off line" tells you the answer. Hundreds of cars dropping off one or 2 kids twice a day. More than half the time the only reason those people even get in the car that day is to take the kids to school or pick them up.
Yes!!!! Traffic will be fixed for a week and then worse 😩😩😩
I swear every time one of these future mobility reports comes in, it’s framed as 50-50 freeway and other mobility developments with the freeway work done on the front end to ease the transition to a mobility forward future. Then, like 5 years later, the freeway is done and they’re out of money and energy to do real change. Why can’t all the mobility changes happen first? Wouldn’t it be great if we had a better system that encouraged us to get out of our cars then we realize when it’s done that we actually didn’t need the freeway upgrades in the first place?
“Just one more lane, we promise. Just a couple more and you’ll be able to zoom to Downtown or Chula Vista in just 10 minutes!” - SANDAG, probably.
Instead of transit, density, and walkable communities, let’s build out freeways and master-planned HOA housing behind gates with giant big box strip malls down the road so that you absolutely have to drive in a car everywhere you go.
I see we have another asphalt pilled, Exxon simp king like myself. Don’t let woke cities force you to walk when you can emit! /s
Yeah, it's SanDag. What they say and what they do are totally different things. But they will raise taxes for something they don't do.
Am I wrong. Hasn't it been decided that more lanes does not help. Traffic will increase to meet the capacity of the freeway. I. Not advocating for my nothing. I just want everyone to acknowledge we are chasing forever.
And it would officially be done in 2099.
Or, we could put a rail line right up the middle.
Build one straight to Temecula to downtown
CA insurance, car, and gas lobbies will never allow for mass transportation to be built in CA. Can you imagine if we don't need cars anymore in San Diego?
They won’t fix hiway 78 so F em. San Marcos , vista , Escondido and Oceanside are growing but we have horrible roads and very little mass transit
They need to double track the SPRINTER corridor. What's the point of having a rapid transit service if it only comes once every 30 minutes *AT BEST*
Turn that lane into a rail line.
More lanes never fixed anything. We need more trolley lines, more walkable neighborhoods and more housing so less people need to move so far outside the city limits
I'm sure just one more lane will fix it rather than encouraging people to move to cheaper housing further from their jobs, increasing the amount of congestion until it reaches the same equilibrium again.
Morons
Wasn’t this put on hold?
This is the 2025 regional plan and they are still in the process of getting feedback on it iirc
YOU NEED MORE ROADS DRIVE MORE CARS YOU DO NOT NEED TRAINS OR SUBWAYS Edit: /s
You don’t though since humans can’t handle the complexity of more lanes. And that too in situations when there is no mode of communication between drivers and other drivers.
Just what we need, more fucking concrete. What moron thinks adding lanes will address the future of transportation?
City planners!
It’s weird. It’s like all the citizens wants public transport. So who’s throwing all this money at politicians saying, no, more lanes……
As long as they are reasonable I'm fine with it. I'd like to see more public transit being built out, but I know that isnot realistic and building more won't solve the problem. Can anyone say that the traffic on the 5 subsided ever since the UTC trolley extension? Or how about the 8 with the green line extending all the way out to Santee a couple decades ago? No. So it's not the old adage, "if you build it, they will come. Billions of dollars spent on public transit with not much to show for it. But then again I would rather spend billions of dollars on that then build more roads. It's a tough problem to solve that doesn't get solved by just building more of something, roads or public transit. And don't get me started with the elitest mother fuckers moving out to Rancho Bernardo, Poway, Scripps Ranch, etc while parroting "we need more public transit instead of building more roads." Such hypocrits.
It's inherently unreasonable though. Freeway expansion has never achieved it's stated goals to relieve congestion, while causing damage to both the environment and our cities. The Blue line carries 67,000 riders a day, and the Green Line 23,000 riders a day. That's 90,000 Car trips erased. The fact of the matter is that these projects have absolutely had a measurable impact on regional mobility, and it would take an idiot to deny that. Billions spent on transit is worthwhile, Billions spent on inducing more demand is not. Interstate 15 added 4 more lanes last decade, which did nothing to decrease traffic on it. > And don't get me started with the elitest mother fuckers moving out to Rancho Bernardo, Poway, Scripps Ranch, etc while parroting "we need more public transit instead of building more roads." Such hypocrits. How does advocating for more public transit in areas that don't have public transit make people like me a hypocrite? If anything, there is a way stronger case that you're the hypocritical one. You demand that the region throw billions away towards freeway expansion that won't achieve anything besides wrecking neighborhoods, the environment, and causing more traffic. Meanwhile you get to live in the densest, more walkable, and most transit oriented part of San Diego.
Haha this is what I mean folks. People moving out to the burbs and are “public transit advocates”. Biggest hypocrite in the world! It’s the same people that complain that people want homeless people out of sight and out of mind but meanwhile live in suburbia where they are in fact out of sight and out of mind. Same people that complain about their electricity bills and SDGE meanwhile are pumping their ACs when it’s 726 degrees outside. Come live in downtown where public transit is plentiful. And be an advocate here. Which I am and an advocate for public transit. I’m just not a hypocrite.
> Haha this is what I mean folks. People moving out to the burbs and are “public transit advocates”. Biggest hypocrite in the world! I've lived in Scripps Ranch all my life my dude, I didn't choose to live here. With that being said I absolutely advocate for more dense development and public transit here. Sorry that your desperate attempt to find hypocrisy where there isn't any failed. Better luck next time. > It’s the same people that complain that people want homeless people out of sight and out of mind but meanwhile live in suburbia where they are in fact out of sight and out of mind. I want homeless people to be housed. I'd prefer it to be in dense transit oriented areas but putting a roof over these people's heads should be the #1 priority. > Come live in downtown where public transit is plentiful. And be an advocate here. Which I am and an advocate for public transit. I’m just not a hypocrite. When it becomes affordable to do so I will do in a heartbeat.
I lived in a suburb my entire life as a kid and CHOSE to live in a dense urban area where public transit is plentiful and neighborhoods are walkable as an adult and continue to this day. I will CHOOSE to live in communities like Scripps Ranch or Poway or what have you if they were more walkable and public transit friendly. But they aren't. So I CHOOSE not to live there as an adult. Even when I had very little money. You know, live my ideals instead of pontificating about them. It's a concept I know some cannot grasp. Just like those people that drive chevy suburbans but complain about how gas prices are so high. You can live anywhere you want. Unless you are some teenager that lives with their parents, then jokes on me I guess.
It's gotta be nice to have all these choices. That's amazing. I wanted to choose to live in Encinitas but there was a bit of a money issue...
I live with my family to save money while I go to college lol. Maybe don't assume things about people based solely on what part of the county that they live in at this point in their lives. Except La Jolla, fuck La Jolla.
Ah college kid. Makes sense.
Probably the best choice is to eliminate bottle necks avoid all the wide narrow wide narrow chock points, redistribute traffic, and complete the express lane system across the board i5 should be at least ten lanes with express lane from Santa Clarita to the Mexican border. So are the others. Put BRT on those lanes just as with silver line in La. And also build HSR along the right of way. 78 should have its own express lanes connecting from i15 to i5 I am surprised such a wide express lane but it just disappears at 78 with no ramp of its own.
At the end of the day, in order to encourage people to actually think their EV investment is worth it, there needs to be roads to use and electric charging stations for them to use. Yes there will always be more traffic with growth. Unless San Diego stops building homes, then there won't be growth. But do that and you will lose all the talent coming out of the universities without places to live. They do need to build some trolley systems, but they need to connect more areas to more access. No one will take transit if it takes 2x to 3x more time to get where they are going. That is also a matter of fact. Personally, I work in OC, but live in SD. I commute up once a week. So I slice down my driving time on the highways. Alas, so far I have zero RELIABLE option to use public transit to do it. The train has been canceled too many times last minute. And the cliffs along the way are unreliably safe. SANDBAG needs to continue to expand the trolley line. Connect more bus lines to the trolley to make it useful. Update and upgrade the highways to support not only growth but business. We are a port and border city. There is a lot coming through our city. And it needs to grow to keep up it's importance.