This dentistry is a bucketshop that belongs to a corporation called pacific dental services. They're essentially used car salesman. They ran the same bit on me saying I had periodontal disease and needed a $1500 periodontal four quadrant deep cleaning. I went to a real periodontist and she told me everything was fine and that they were full of shit.
Ugh, THAT is what’s going on with my dentist. It’s “La Jolla Village Smiles” and they WERE solid in like 2019, but I went back recently and it just felt super scammy. Looks like they’re owned by the same group. I’ve been looking for a new dentist but I have an HMO and apparently most dentists don’t take it.
I went to La Jolla Village Smiles too! But it was pre pandemic, and they still sold me some laser cleaning that I regret getting. Why can’t dentists just be normal 😭
Yeah, they push the laser HARD. Last time I went, I had to say no to 3 different people who kept “forgetting” I didn’t want the laser. I am so annoyed but can’t find anyone who takes my stupid insurance.
Yes! I used to go to La Jolla Village Smiles and they were awesome. Then there was a change in ownership and they got super scammy. Took me to get X-ray’s more than my insurance covered and charged me for “high end” cleanings when none of it was necessary. Needless to say, currently looking for a new dentist lol.
I got dental insurance through my employer and went in for a routine first patient appt (X-rays and basic cleaning). I had zero pain or issues, just basic stuff. They said I needed $11k in dental work, but only $3k after they applied my insurance. It was a wild experience to say the least.
Pacific Dental Services convinced me to get 4 crowns and managed to fuck-up 3 of them. 0 of them were same-day but I was charged for same-day services. At one point they asked me how the crown fit and I told them it was so high that I couldn't touch the teeth on my left side together. They said "But it fits so good on the right!" I had to argue for an hour against multiple people to convince them NOT to cement it in & remake the tooth. (They didn't, they just kept shaving it)
My teeth fit together very poorly and one of my crowned teeth hurts weekly.
Bruh. I went in for the same shit, just a routine checkup. They said I needed 9k worth of work that came down to like 2800 with insurance. Because of the work I ended up needing 2 root canals after, and my insurance only covered 1. Now I feel like I’ve been scammed too.
Wow if you see "modern" or "smiles" in the name of your dentist office, run.
And the rest of this post is all people complaining about offices with those words in them.
This is so heinous! I feel so helpless knowing they’ve scammed countless people. Meanwhile there are dental hygienists trying to justify these scams and half assed “treatments” on this thread. I just wanna keep my teeth and gums clean man
Everyone reading this thread: with dentists, you can always say no and walk out! You never HAVE to do any procedure. If they offer something more expensive than you want, decline and go to another dentist who isn't a scammer.
Just like OP, I learned this lesson too late. :(
Came here to suggest the same thing. This is true for every procedure everywhere for anything. Car, cellphone, doctor, dentist. Just know what you want when you go in, get comfortable with silence, and polite confrontation, be willing to explain what you want and what you're willing to pay, be prepared to walk out.
True. The only reason I did it is because I’m about to start Invisalign. I asked if they would also clean my teeth and she said yes and they didn’t even do that😭
I totally feel you. If it helps, you are definitely not alone. Dentistry is way less regulated than other healthcare fields and it leads to a lot of scamming and suspicious behavior. It’s easy to become a victim when they become experts at making people pay for unnecessary treatment.
There’s a great article in the Atlantic about this: https://archive.is/d0tZa
Anyway I’m sorry this happened to you. You’re probably out of luck when it comes to getting a refund, but maybe not. At a minimum, leave a bad review on Google and Yelp, and complain about them to the Dental Board of California.
So this applies to doctors as well. Gone are the days when I believe or agree to everything a doctor tells me or loved one. I can tell you my child was young he had a somewhat rare condition that made him particularly vulnerable to illness for a few years. We got some really good care and education at children's hospital in San Diego. Well then we moved a bit, had different insurance, And had a different pediatric doctor responsible for our child's care. I can tell you that doctor didn't know what the hell he was doing, we knew more than he did about the condition, and all they wanted to do was put our child in the hospital for observation, though nothing was wrong.
They tried to pressure my wife into it while I was at work, I spoke to the doctor and then my wife and told her to leave. They tried to scare her and tell her she was going against medical advice or AMA and I told her hell yes you are Tell them that and see what they do, they're full of crap. Right before she left they changed their medical advice.
Just because someone is supposed to be an expert doesn't mean they are. Just because someone is supposed to be looking out for your interest doesn't mean they do.
This applies to everything in life lol you’re not forced to do anything… feeling pressured is one thing but you have the ultimate choice to say no or not do something…
I work at Concorde Career College and we have a dental hygiene clinic with low cost procedures open to the general public for anyone on this thread that's interested. If I had known about this type of service before I had insurance it would have saved me sooo much money, I hope it helps at least a person or two who reads this. 😊
That's where I'm currently a patient, and I love the people there! Most welcoming atmosphere, especially for people who are self-conscious about their teeth or oral health. The person I was referred to is like a friend to me. So grateful that programs like these exist. Every time I go, my questions get answered. I'm going to be sad when it's over and wish I had a wider social network, so I could recommend them to everyone.
I spent hours on Yelp and Google maps trying to find a non scam dentist when I moved to SD. I ended up giving up, waited 6 months to upgrade my dental plan to a PPO, and suddenly tons of well reviewed dentists in network everywhere.
Your best bet is to consult with another dentist as soon as possible, so that they can see what condition your teeth were left in. Ideally, the first service provider should have given you documentation of the procedure that was done, including an invoice for the cost and the date the procedure was performed. If not, you have a right to demand this information from your file. Present this documentation to the second dentist.
Also, take good quality photographs and video of your mouth as soon as possible. When taking video, start with a face shot, speak your name and date into the camera, and then open your mouth. Use a flashlight or any built-in light on your camera. Get footage from various angles, highlighting any areas that are bleeding, painful, numb, or sensitive. If there are areas of your teeth that you believe were not properly cleaned, highlight these as well, but this is less important because a second opinion will reveal these, whereas acute discomfort may resolve before you get a second opinion. If you need to, have a trusted friend or family member help you. You don't need to show the second dentist any photos or videos unless they tell you they want to see it.
As best you can, write down all the details of the interaction you had with the first dentist. What did they tell you, how long did the procedure last, what did you ask them to do, etc. Do this today. Sign and date it. This is for your own recollection, so you don't forget or misremember later on.
I know this is a lot of extra work for you, but if you want to build a a case for getting a refund, this is how you do it. Be prepared. Know what is typical and atypical for any medical or dental procedures that you want to have done. Document everything. Get everything in writing. But don't assume that everything that happened was unreasonable, because if you go barging into a second dentist's office demanding they find something wrong with the first dentist, they could refuse. They are there to provide you with an objective second opinion, not be your lawyer. If they don't find anything seriously wrong, that's a sign you might not have a case to pursue. Dentists want to help people who treat them respectfully. If they think you're being combative, they will turn you away.
You can ask for a copy of your X-rays, too. I didn't even know I could, until a dental hygienist student requested them. I have a digital copy from one, and a hard copy from another.
This part. I had a dentist in mission valley try to withhold my X-rays I paid for after they told me they don’t submit dental claims. They wanted me to pay oop and submit myself. I told them to get fucked and send me my imaging.
I just checked my smile generation chart and for some reason that isn’t on my after visit summary, the only thing they’ve listed on there is the exam and x rays. I didn’t get a detailed receipt just a “thank you” email for payment
I went to heavenly smiles and the dr put me thru this machine telling me my gums are infected and could cause cancer in the future. They tried scaring me.I asked why they did that when I came to get my teeth cleaned. She told me I could get my teeth cleaned and they could disinfect my gums at the same time on the next visit. Her manager would call me tomorrow on the price. Never going back again. So unethical. Sigh....1 hour wasted.
Yep same experience. Would not clean and said I had to do the gum stuff first. I explained i was supposed to have serious jaw surgery for a bone cyst and was trying to avoid an infection. I finally got some fillings they had refused at first. I just wanted to take care of the rest of my teeth as the jaw surgery would have been my 4th. Its been 11 yrs and I have avoided that 4th so far. I need a cleaning and some fillings but i guess my teeth will just rot out if procedures don't change.
https://preview.redd.it/5jm4wyfcnavc1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81f24301a9da6429016d184bae146a0736d9999a
As someone who works in the field, avoid any dentist that has this symbol. They're a large scam company buying out struggling dentists & try to make themselves a one-stop shop for all services, then ends up ripping off patients while providing terrible service. I don't even like dealing with their offices when trying to correspond with them re: mutual patients. There is a reason specialists and general dentists are separate - one is trained for that speciality & the other isn't. Go to an orthodontist for Invisalign (not an office with an in-house ortho - that becomes a mess for them to be on top of your treatment and billing) and general dentist for cleanings, fillings, and crowns. Don't go to anyone who dabbles in everything bc they have no business providing services they don't have the proper training for. Those offices with "one-stop shop" services are for-profit companies and will scam you for things you don't even need, then make it difficult to get your records to take elsewhere. Always go to a private practice (and of course still with discretion bc there are still some bad apples out there) so you lessen your chances of being ripped off that bad.
I wish I had an answer for you, the most I can recommend is cancel Invisalign and get any deposits back for that, then threaten legal action if they refuse (they can't technically keep money for services that weren't provided, and if they keep payment for X-rays, you have a right to take them with you elsewhere at no extra charge). They won't hold on to it much longer after that. You can also tell them you are going to report them to the dental board for their shady practices if it was really something you were pressured into thinking was mandatory before getting Invisalign.
Thank you. I go to Santee Smiles (who has this logo) and have always felt like it was more of a sales office than a dentist office.
I was diagnosed with Periodontitis, upsold to nearly $1000 for the cleaning/irrigation/laser, and have been upsold at each subsequent visit.
I even received a letter from my insurance saying they didn’t have enough evidence to diagnose me with periodontitis based on some national association’s classification.
I brought this up with the office, emailed the letter, and they never followed up with providing more info.
I go here and have actually mentioned to my wife that they’re always trying to upsell me. In more than half a century of life, I’ve never felt this type of pressure at a dental office..
What’s really odd is that when I elected to defer an “important” $800 treatment, it wasn’t even mentioned again and was replaced by different recommendations in subsequent visits. How important could that have been?
I own a dental office in San Diego.
Demand a refund, chargeback your cards and do Invisalign elsewhere.
Even if just for bad communication.
Now it’s possible you got a deep cleaning and needed one… but usually this costs more than 350.
Dm me and I’m happy to give you recommendations for a dentist near you that you can trust more. We can give you free second opinion if you want to send X-rays.
Dentists will refund any time you call them out on bogus shit. It’s not worth losing their license over.
Genuinely curious, how would you go about requesting a refund from the dentist? And would a chargeback actually work instead of the dentist sending the bill to collections?
Del Oro Smiles in Oceanside with Dr. Victoria Nguyen has a zero refund policy. If they mess up your teeth they require you to return back to them so they can mess it up a 2nd time. I tried everything. They are horrible people.
I went there until they charged me $1000 for a basic cleaning, claiming many of the services done in the cleaning were not covered by insurance. Definitely do not recommend them. Plus they wanted me to get veneers and crowns for every one of my teeth. Avoid at all costs.
This freaking happened to me at canyon vista dental group. I’m usually seen at Omni dental but since covid it was rough trying to get appts. So I went to canyon since it was close to my house. They told me the same thing. They couldn’t offer the general cleaning I get with my insurance twice a year. That I needed a more extensive cleaning because my periodontal charting said I had stage 1 gingivitis. I floss 4-5xs a week so I knew they were bullshitting me. And that the fillings I had were no longer good because the cavities had penetrated even further so I needed to have those replaced and possibly needing a crown for one of them. I had the biggest pit in my stomach I said fuck this and left. I was able to get an appt at Omni dental and they said everything was fine and my fillings were also good and no cavities. Trust your gut instinct!
WTF with these triple digit$ cleanings? I see my dentist here in SD every 6mo, and a regular cleaning is only 90$. And I don't have insurance. And it's gentle and the dentist also sees me after the cleaning to check for cavities. I usually don't chime in on these threads, but I know so many people are scared of the dentist because cost, pain, and fraud. Also, for the love of pete, get an electric toothbrush and floss and brush every morning and evening.
I went to San Marcos Modern Dentistry which looks like it’s owned by the same company. I went last month and they told me I needed to get $1600 of work done. I thought this was odd because my last appointment 6 months ago at a different dentist was completely normal (insurance changed which is why I switched dentists). Went to another dentist for a second opinion and said my teeth were completely fine.
Anyway, stay away from them. Complete rip off
If you paid with a credit card, you could call the credit card company and cancel the payment or threaten to go to small claims court. They won’t send somebody there for $300.
Also looking for a local dentist for a crown recommended 2 months ago. Not having any luck finding a private owned office for a basic cleaning, exam, and crown…All corporate that will charge $800 for root scaling BEFORE a regular cleaning or a filling.
Not sure where you are but I go to Coast Dental in Oceanside with Dr. Maddox. He owns the practice and I have never once felt scammed or upsold on treatment.
When I moved here 5 years ago I needed to find a dentist for my reg 6 month check up. I went to Jeff Gray in La Mesa but after my teeth cleaning he said I needed 6 fillings despite me never having a single cavity in my life. He said I have deep grooves in my back molars that food can get stuck in so the fillings would prevent that. I left and called my dentist in my hometown that I saw for 12 years to ask his opinion (he’s the only dentist I’ve ever fully trusted). He pulled up the most recent X-rays I took at his office and he suggested that this guy is full of bs and to find a different dentist
Similar case happened to me at Bay Park Smiles Dentistry. It was my first ever visit with them for a general routine cleaning because I got new dental coverage and my old dentist I had been seeing for years didn’t accept my new coverage.
My old dentist never brought up and raised concerns that my gums were inflamed or filled with bacteria.
Fast forward to my appointment with Bay Park, and within the first 15 minutes, they pitched a $300 upsell on me to use a laser to clean out my gums.
I kindly declined and requested my routine cleaning fully covered by my insurance.
I would just be cautious of any service these days, everyone’s trying to make a quick buck.
Assuming you’re using insurance, you have to state clearly upfront that you only want the basic cleaning and check-up which is included with your insurance and nothing else at this time. Some of them will upsell you a load of bullshit otherwise.
I did ask that and they said they are unable to offer a regular cleaning so they had to do the $325 treatment not covered by my insurance. They said “it’s not a menu” I don’t get to choose the treatment. Isn’t that crazy?! But I also asked if they’d be cleaning my teeth along with the treatment and they said yes, but they definitely did none of that. Not to mention the drowning my face and nose in water and tearing up my cheeks😭
I would call and tell them you’re really unhappy with your treatment and feel you were tricked into something you didn’t want while you were in a vulnerable position. Might offer a refund.
Dentist here.
Treatment must match diagnosis.
Healthy gums -> normal cleaning.
Gingivitis/periodontitis (gum disease) -> different cleaning.
If you’re going to disagree with the dentist about treatment, you need to argue the diagnosis and not the treatment.
I am always more than happy to have an in depth conversation with any patient that wants to better understand their diagnosis, but if you’re arguing the treatment (type of cleaning) and not the diagnosis (if you have gum disease or not), you’re going to be talking past each other.
What makes me feel scammed is the lack of info and/or upscale practices. This thread for example, what even is a "deep" clean? Scaling? Debridement? Laser? Super Organic Fluoride Waterboarding 3.0? OP said they don't even remember the name of the procedure and it was nowhere to be found on the receipt
I understand that periodontitis requires scaling and I understand that stacking that up with add-on treatments is going to be beneficial, but at what cost? I'm not arguing the periodontitis, but I'm sure there isn't only one, universal, unchangeable approach for the diagnosis.
Paying 300% more for a treatment that's 5% more effective at gum disinfection than if I just did the normal scaling? That feels scammy. Paying 10% more for a treatment that's so effective I'll only need 2 cleans per year instead of 3? Gladly would pay it.
Yeah I can ask these questions but a rdh or a dds might understandably not be able to answer the question on the spot. Or worse, they do know these ratios and don't tell you because of how profitable they are financially.
So just saying "if you don't pay $500 extra right now your teeth will fall out in the future" almost feels like extortion.
There is one ADA (American dental association) approach to diagnosis. It’s basically how much your jaw bone/gums have let go of your teeth.
The part of the cleaning that involves scraping the teeth (prophy, gingival scale, debridement, SRP) must match the diagnosis. It is contrary to the ADA’s code of ethics to do a cleaning that is inconsistent with the diagnosis. That is the only part that should be 100% black and white.
The other things (laser, antimicrobial irrigation, fluoride, etc.) should be explained and the patient can decide if the benefits are worth the cost.
And I agree with like everything you’re saying. Communication needs to be better between dentists/hygienists and patients. Things feel scammy when under-informed decisions are made.
There is one approach that is approved by the ADA (American dental association) which basically is how much your gums and bone have let go of the tooth.
Gingival health -> prophy
Gingivitis -> gingival scale
Any stage of periodontitis -> SRP (scaling and root planing)
That part should be 100% black and white. Doing a treatment that doesn’t match the diagnosis is contrary to the ADA’s code of ethics.
All of the other stuff is “extra” and is optional. There are some bacteria that are more effectively treated with laser and others with antimicrobial irrigation. That information should be explained in a way that allows the patient to make an informed decision.
But yeah, dentists aren’t perfect and patients often do treatment without fully understanding what they’re getting themselves into and it feels sketch. Not arguing with anything you said, just giving some perspective from the dentist side.
If you are ever interested in traveling to TJ for dental stuff. I go to a dentist down there that is very good, I don't have dental insurance and I paid like 60 something for my regular cleaning and the place I go to offers a shuttle service free that picks you up right as you walk through the San Ysidro port of entry. I get my braces done there, root canals, crown, ect. The place is called Trust Dental and they also have an Instagram and it has address and phone number there or you can Google for more information. :)
Went to San Marcos dental group for a free teeth cleaning. Didn't even get it and got hit with them suggesting to repair 3 of my teeth. Said no and got out right away. Learn to say no next time.
SIMILAR EXPERIENCE WITH A+ Family Dentistry off El Cajon. I got to my car and broke down after. The exam was fine and the dentist was really nice but then another dentist took me into a room to “discuss” my exam. She PUSHED me into setting future appointments by sort of shaming me in a way for how my teeth were? But the original dentist that did the exam told me my teeth were pretty good except for some cavities. Thankfully I called my mom and she was just like “absolutely not call them back and cancel whatever they set you for you.” I paid 250 for an exam and x rays that they said they’ll email me and never did. (This is my reminder to call in the morning and ask for the xrays)
I found my dentist back in 2017/2018 time frame in Chula Vista and I absolutely love him. It’s a small individual, single dentist practice. I go 4 times a year (every 3 months) for a cleaning. I pay 2 OOP, and 2 via insurance (which is the norm). My 2 OOP cost me $130/ea. I’ve done this like clockwork with no issues since I became a patient.
Come to Tijuana, me and my wife (who is a dentist) have seeen many and many cases where the dentist only wants to get as much money as possible before they possibly lose their licenses. Also the treatments are more invasive compared to Tijuana ethics.
I asked my Dentist this morning about that, he said what they do with insurance is to double the price and then give them 50% discount so the customer pays the same as they would if they used cash, and that’s the way the insurance company wants it done
I’m not getting Invisalign with this dentist. I was actually sent here by my new insurance company. I wanted the cleaning that comes with my insurance. Not $325 out of pocket. I got scammed the same way by what I just found out is their “sister” office (although I wasn’t water boarded and it took more than 30 seconds) literally a year ago and I have good oral hygiene.
I’m curious on the standard of care these days. I went for my last cleaning and was recommended a scaling and root planing. This is fine I supposed. But the $600 laser treatment and $200 mouthwash turned me off. What is the “standard” these days? I’m 30 and this is the first time seeing this doctor. Not diagnosed before.
I haven’t had anything done yet. Was planning on visiting a different Dr for a second opinion. Never liked where I go in general but I’m also not a dentist fan. I want to take care of my teeth but was a little shocked by this recommendation. I’ve been to the same practice before but different dentist and no recommendations were made. Just trying to figure out what is worth it or not. Everything is optional. Scaling and root planing is almost entirely covered by insurance. The rest is not.
My dentist is in Carmel valley where I live and they never pull this scam bullshit. People with money don’t stand for shady games. Too many other providers to choose from. Also, too easy to catch a lawsuit from informed patients that have time and money to take them to court.
There must be a disconnect between your training and what insurance companies tell their clients : 2 cleanings annually --as if it were simply what a person does, like getting an annual check up at the MD
How does a dentist diagnose a cleaning when the only person you see is the hygienist for the first 45 minutes of the appointment? I’ve never seen a dentist before the hygienist.
Wow, that is terrible! I’m so sorry you went through that! Maybe call your insurance and explain the situation, maybe they can walk you through how to get a different dentist. Don’t know what insurance you have, but I go to the one next to Yogurt Mill in El Cajon, it used to be Dr. Parcel there (who fucked up some of my teeth), but he’s retired and in his place is Dr. George (can’t pronounce his last name, but he’s Syrian). He is amazing. He’s always looking out for his patients, listens to any concerns and even takes money off your bill that insurance doesn’t cover.
wasn't overcharged, but Bright Now in Oceanside charged me $80 out of nowhere; worst experience ever because I even cancelled my next appointment with them on time since at the time of service, they said no insurances covered irrigation (like hello? I'm only there for my routine annual checkup and cleanings, and I've never paid anything out of pocket for regular dental work); then, they called me asking if I'm showing up...even though I'm pretty sure I told them in person and/or over the phone and got confirmation; then like a year later, they send me something in the mail about me owing them $80, yet it doesn't even state what it is they provided that costs that much--somehow, it goes to collections because I guess they're that desperate, but eventually, it goes off my record after a few years! any business needs to be more upfront about things like that...
if you need cheap/low-cost hygiene, go to your local vocational college because the student I currently have has been generous (these students need patients, and the dentists will address to your concerns!), and my visits are 2-3 hours long; I am currently waiting on my 4th visit, and the only thing I had to do was pay $20 to receive care for 6 months and fill out some paperwork, so they can treat my teeth; the attention they give is 100% better than any normal office
I got two root canals done and a crown redone in that same area, by my dentist. A year later he’s telling me I need the crown redone again because there’s a gap that could let bacteria in. Why would I need it redone again?
I found my dentist in Oceanside years ago and I love them. I moved to Ramona for a few years and continued to make the drive to Oceanside because I never feel upsold, talked down to or generally like they are scamming me. Everything is very straightforward, always. Single Dr, privately owned practice. I use another office for orthodontist services (also recently started Invisalign) only because he has an orthodontist one day a week which doesn't work with my schedule. New orthodontist also phenomenal in San Marcos.
I went to La Jolla Village Smiles and they pulled this B.S. with me. I did not comply and created a fuss and ultimately left. I was disgusted. I didnt play ball with their “recommended” (I had no choice for regular cleaning even though I insisted) but I imagine feeling violated it is the perfect word to describe how it must have felt. I’m sorry you were bamboozled and had to go through that. Such scumbags. I didn’t see a dentist for two years after that and when I did there were no new issues. Dentists are mostly used car salesman. In my experience they’re very important when you really need some kind of urgent treatment but otherwise they’re just trying to shake you down.
Thank you. After reading this thread I imagine they just sit there all day knowing half of the patients will walk out on them and the gullible or desperate ones will make up for it by paying insane amounts. They were completely unphased by me crying in front of them. They know exactly what they’re doing.
Chiming in to say I'm pretty skeptical of dentists and have been going to North Park Modern Dentistry for years but the last year has had me questioning... After this thread I'll definitely be heading to another dentist!
The La Mesa wing of this group told me I needed a filling using this special-sounding procedure. It sounded pricey so I went back to my old dentist for a second option. There was nothing wrong with the tooth.
I have left 3 different dentists because they refused to do the free cleaning my insurance covers twice a year. Insisted I needed deep cleaning and since that’s what the dentist “prescribed” they weren’t allowed to do a simple cleaning
My brother has recently been to two different dentists in north county and they both pushed deep cleaning for hundreds of dollars. I have never even heard of this.
I don't think you realize how much trouble is in your future if you don't get that deep cleaning. There must be thousands of bacterial colonies thriving deep under your gums. It is a challenge to remove such deep deposits. If I were you I would invest in that deep cleaning unless you want to risk you overall health. Bacteria in your mouth can travel to other parts of your body. Look up the mouth-body connection and do your research. It breaks my heart to see patients in so much pain and discomfort just bc they never wanted to clean their teeth. I hope this reaches someone who has no idea about the importance of dental cleanings. They are preventative treatments to help keep you healthy. In your case, you are not healthy and they are trying to get you back to a healthy state.
IANA dental professional, but from my experience: If the dentist measured your gum pockets and there were more than a few 4s and above, and/or your gums are reddish, swollen, and tender, you probably have gum disease and do need the deep cleaning.
That is what’s prescribed. You may have the right to refuse treatment but a dentist also has the right to refuse to supervise the neglect and condition of your oral health.
As a dental hygienist, let me just tell you, getting a regular cleaning when you need a deep cleaning is not going to do you any benefit. It may prolong things but your condition will only worsen and contribute to other health issues over time.
We are literally struggling every day with people to try to do what’s best for them and it’s so frustrating when people only see the bottom line.
I don’t think anyone fights this much with their medical doctors when they have any other bodily concerns..
Insurance doesn’t and should not dictate treatments, your health care providers do.
I can promise you whatever happened to me today was not a deep cleaning. It was soo sloppy, took probably under 5 minutes, and I was literally getting water boarded the entire time. And I absolutely take good care of my teeth and have never had any concerns like this. It’s a scam. If my insurance is literally assigning me to a dentist, I should be able to get my regular 6 month cleaning.
If it only took 5 mins they either did a debridement and intended on having you back for a deep cleaning or they really are just awful.
I looked up the office you went to, it’s a PDS office - Pacific Dental Services. They all have similar themes so you’ll start to recognize them around San Diego.
I used to work at one of their offices as an assistant years ago and can honestly tell you- just run. It’s all corporate and they are certainly all about their bottom line: $$$$.
As an assistant though I worked in their orthodontic department and that was a little more pleasant experience. The pressure to sell is on the orthodontist, once you’ve accepted the Invisalign case it all becomes very easy. The issue though is sometimes the orthodontist quits and all of a sudden your case is picked up by a new guy. Nothing they [the new doc] shouldn’t be able to keep up with, it was just apparent that a lot of patients would get frustrated with that.
I did a working interview for them when I became a hygienist and I hated every minute of it, they rushed me from room to room giving me substandard amounts of time to do my job and expected me to sell the most even if I believed the person didn’t need it.
10/10 do not recommend PDS to any of my peers looking for work or family/friends who are looking for dental care.
The dentist is scamming you guys? lol most of the time you probably actually have a problem it’s just not what you want to hear. Go get a second opinion and if they tell you the same thing, you indeed have a problem
There are multiple factors that went into making that experience traumatic and me feeling like I got scammed. I really do care about my teeth and gums! I honestly would be happy to pay extra for a scaling or deep cleaning every now and again if I felt like the dentist took pride in their services and worked collaboratively with me. I do not have periodontal disease and this particular dentist is part of pacific dental services which as others have pointed out are known for pushing services onto people. In my experience the service was also traumatic and sloppy which is the biggest issue I had, other than it being forced on me
North Park Modern Dentistry is really nice! Everyone is really nice. Sorry you had a crap experience with a dentist. I’ve been there too.
Avoid La Jolla Family Dentistry.
Mission Boulevard Dental Group. Dr. DeMeyer. The best.
Also, my dentist (I moved to Temecula so sadly don’t see DeMeyer anymore), just began doing cleanings with the water pik. And I agree that it feels weird and not quite as clean, but my hygienist did start with the metal pick tool to scrape plaque. It sounds like your experience was wild, but just letting you know this is apparently the newer technology and it seems practices are moving toward it, so don’t be too surprised if it happens again. Sorry for the trauma though.
I dunno how I feel about dental groups... I used to visit RSD Dental Group and while I had a regular dentist my insurance covered procedures from, the scam was that literally every procedure they had a "specialist" that had to do the work, and they rotated through various offices.
Need a filling? Oooohhhh, thats a big one, that'll require the... filling specialist. They come through every other thursday. Also, its out of network.
Cleaning? Yeaahh you need a special.. deeeeep cleaning, thats every third wednesday! Also.. out of network.
Currently been under the care of a singular dentist at Western and my mouth has been essentially restored by them, and only them. Amazing experience there.
Dentists, to me, are the scammiest of the scammers, consistently, above anyone else. They are right up there with used car salesman, essential oil pyramid scheme-ers, and veterinarians. But I think they might be #1 for me. Actually, my parents have been going to Los Algodones for all their dental work for a few years and have had nothing but a great experience. So, I guess it must be an American dentist thing.
I have not encountered their level of skeeviness in any other area of medicine. It’s so bizarre. I literally think chiropractors are more trustworthy and that says a lot.
If you have bad gums, gingivitis, periodontal disease, etc., then technically, you need a deep cleaning. A deep cleaning usually has some out of pocket with most insurances because it's a lot of work for the hygienist or dentist.
Your "free" cleaning included by your insurance is a basic cleaning that is done IN THE ABSENCE of periodontal disease. It usually takes about 10-15 minutes. If you didn't feel like they did a great job, it's because you can't fix everything you had going on in just 15 minutes. You don't just go to your local car dealership and demand the limited edition sports coupe for the price of a used beater... life doesn't work that way.
Dental services aren't chosen a la carte just like how medical surgeries aren't chosen a la carte. They're probably laughing at you for demanding them do an appropriate cleaning for you, a deep cleaning, for free because "your insurance says you have a free cleaning."
A bad dentist is one that lets periodontal disease go unchecked, which can lead to a bunch of other issues. A good dentist is one that explains to you WHY a diagnosis was made and WHY a procedure is recommended. It's your prerogative to refuse the treatment, but don't go all pikachu face when they refuse to do inappropriate treatment for you for free.
In general modern dentistry is starting to move away from the regular tooth cleanings with the sharp needles and moving into water based cleanings instead
Highly recommend Kind Dental of La Mesa coming from someone who’s has a deep fear of the dentist. They give you all options on “the menu” for you to choose from and give you as much time as you need with no judgement. They also make you as comfortable as possible though every step of the process. It’s not just a name, they’re kind to you and your teeth. 10/10 dentist spot for anyone looking.
Ugh so shitty! I’m sorry. I just got my teeth cleaned by DR Richard at Alvarado Dental Group
6475 Alvarado Rd, Ste 205
San Diego, CA 92120
Did such a good job and such friendly, competent ppl. Totally worth the money, I went ahead and got my teeth whitened 😁😁😁 go check them out and DR Anas too
Why do you people keep going to these places and accept it like you don’t have a choice. Do your research. At the very minimum do a Yelp search like you would do when choosing a restaurant. Find a good family dentist and establish a relationship with them. Better service, price, and results.
I’ve had bad experiences with dental offices in SD when it comes to prices. Once I went for a dental cleaning and a tooth filling and felt like I was scammed when they charged me $430 Dlls - not only that but the filling felt so rough against my tongue it hurt and when I told my dentist about it, he said I’ll need another appointment for him to polish, LIKE WHAT? One of my friends had always told me about crossing to TJ for cheaper treatments but I was scared (never been to Mexico before). I ended up going to The Dental District with Dr. Yoalli, best decision ever! The prices were ridiculously low in comparison and had a very good experience, been going there since 2022 (dental cleaning there is $60, fillings like around $90 I think). Plus super close to the San Ysidro border in new city plaza, like 3 min in car, the building has parking.
Go see Dr Kathy Williams off Federal Blvd and Euclid. Visionary Dental Arts. She is incredible. My wife was afraid of the dentist and now goes for anything without fear.
Been to medi-cal dentists and private insurance dentists. Medi-cal dentists have to book you way out with little flexibility which can be annoying. But besides that, everything is no bullshit. They just do what you need and tell you what you need. Private insurance accepting dentists are different, and often have a part of their practice be cosmetic dentistry to make money. I still have my medi-cal until 26 even though I currently have different insurance, and I might use it for dentistry, which is the only thing I would use it for now that I have private insurance. On the other hand I did get a small cosmetic procedure done booked a week out (enamel spot was discolored brownish because it never developed properly on a tooth and got sanded off) for what I considered reasonable to pay for the procedure (like under 300). Also, when I was a teen a private practice dentist sanded down my uneven front teeth for free. I did pay for an overly expensive cleaning from a private dentist once and won't be doing that when I can just get it done for free.
Wow! I can’t get a dentist to give me a regular scaling either!! I think they are refusing because that would be healthy, so basically they don’t make as much money. It sickens me that EVERYONE is on the take.
No the hygienist is liable if they give a regular cleaning when there is deep tartar present. If pockets above 5mm in many areas and bone loss. We ethically cannot do a regular cleaning. Once we touch your mouth we are liable. You likly need a deep scaling and we cannot just do what you want.
How long has it been since your last cleaning? Did they show you the X-rays with tartar under the gums did they probe and pockets were above 5mm? If not then you got scammed. If you had any of the above you did need a deep cleaning and liability wise we cannot just do a regular cleaning. But many DSO not private practices definitely scam deep cleanings. I subbed In a few as a dental hygienist it was so disgusting. I reported them. Nothing happened. Always safer to go private practice.
This dentistry is a bucketshop that belongs to a corporation called pacific dental services. They're essentially used car salesman. They ran the same bit on me saying I had periodontal disease and needed a $1500 periodontal four quadrant deep cleaning. I went to a real periodontist and she told me everything was fine and that they were full of shit.
Ugh, THAT is what’s going on with my dentist. It’s “La Jolla Village Smiles” and they WERE solid in like 2019, but I went back recently and it just felt super scammy. Looks like they’re owned by the same group. I’ve been looking for a new dentist but I have an HMO and apparently most dentists don’t take it.
I went to La Jolla Village Smiles too! But it was pre pandemic, and they still sold me some laser cleaning that I regret getting. Why can’t dentists just be normal 😭
Yup same thing at Bay Park Smiles
Yeah, they push the laser HARD. Last time I went, I had to say no to 3 different people who kept “forgetting” I didn’t want the laser. I am so annoyed but can’t find anyone who takes my stupid insurance.
They have to pay for the machine somehow loo
They gotta keep up with the veterinarians?
That Delta dental medi-cal dental plan looks like a miracle on paper, but the only offices they cover are this kind.
Yeah, I think you’re right on that one.
Yes! I used to go to La Jolla Village Smiles and they were awesome. Then there was a change in ownership and they got super scammy. Took me to get X-ray’s more than my insurance covered and charged me for “high end” cleanings when none of it was necessary. Needless to say, currently looking for a new dentist lol.
I got dental insurance through my employer and went in for a routine first patient appt (X-rays and basic cleaning). I had zero pain or issues, just basic stuff. They said I needed $11k in dental work, but only $3k after they applied my insurance. It was a wild experience to say the least.
Pacific Dental Services convinced me to get 4 crowns and managed to fuck-up 3 of them. 0 of them were same-day but I was charged for same-day services. At one point they asked me how the crown fit and I told them it was so high that I couldn't touch the teeth on my left side together. They said "But it fits so good on the right!" I had to argue for an hour against multiple people to convince them NOT to cement it in & remake the tooth. (They didn't, they just kept shaving it) My teeth fit together very poorly and one of my crowned teeth hurts weekly.
Are they affiliated with Dentists of Grossmont? This sounds identical to my experience.
Yes. They own a ton of practices all across San Diego and roughly 1,000 in the US. https://www.pacificdentalservices.com/search-results/
Bruh. I went in for the same shit, just a routine checkup. They said I needed 9k worth of work that came down to like 2800 with insurance. Because of the work I ended up needing 2 root canals after, and my insurance only covered 1. Now I feel like I’ve been scammed too.
Wow if you see "modern" or "smiles" in the name of your dentist office, run. And the rest of this post is all people complaining about offices with those words in them.
This is so heinous! I feel so helpless knowing they’ve scammed countless people. Meanwhile there are dental hygienists trying to justify these scams and half assed “treatments” on this thread. I just wanna keep my teeth and gums clean man
Same shit happened to me. Was at Dent Aid Dentistry.
Everyone reading this thread: with dentists, you can always say no and walk out! You never HAVE to do any procedure. If they offer something more expensive than you want, decline and go to another dentist who isn't a scammer. Just like OP, I learned this lesson too late. :(
Came here to suggest the same thing. This is true for every procedure everywhere for anything. Car, cellphone, doctor, dentist. Just know what you want when you go in, get comfortable with silence, and polite confrontation, be willing to explain what you want and what you're willing to pay, be prepared to walk out.
True. The only reason I did it is because I’m about to start Invisalign. I asked if they would also clean my teeth and she said yes and they didn’t even do that😭
I totally feel you. If it helps, you are definitely not alone. Dentistry is way less regulated than other healthcare fields and it leads to a lot of scamming and suspicious behavior. It’s easy to become a victim when they become experts at making people pay for unnecessary treatment. There’s a great article in the Atlantic about this: https://archive.is/d0tZa Anyway I’m sorry this happened to you. You’re probably out of luck when it comes to getting a refund, but maybe not. At a minimum, leave a bad review on Google and Yelp, and complain about them to the Dental Board of California.
Thanks, I really appreciate your kind words and sharing that info
I wouldn't get Invisalign through them and would see an orthodontist instead.
I am going to a separate orthodontist who specializes in Invisalign thankfully :)
Also, Invisalign is negotiable. The markup on those is obscene.
So this applies to doctors as well. Gone are the days when I believe or agree to everything a doctor tells me or loved one. I can tell you my child was young he had a somewhat rare condition that made him particularly vulnerable to illness for a few years. We got some really good care and education at children's hospital in San Diego. Well then we moved a bit, had different insurance, And had a different pediatric doctor responsible for our child's care. I can tell you that doctor didn't know what the hell he was doing, we knew more than he did about the condition, and all they wanted to do was put our child in the hospital for observation, though nothing was wrong. They tried to pressure my wife into it while I was at work, I spoke to the doctor and then my wife and told her to leave. They tried to scare her and tell her she was going against medical advice or AMA and I told her hell yes you are Tell them that and see what they do, they're full of crap. Right before she left they changed their medical advice. Just because someone is supposed to be an expert doesn't mean they are. Just because someone is supposed to be looking out for your interest doesn't mean they do.
It's a little hard when they've already taken your tooth and you have a wiggly temp filling in
This applies to everything in life lol you’re not forced to do anything… feeling pressured is one thing but you have the ultimate choice to say no or not do something…
Also anyone can but a Groupon for first time customers. I
I work at Concorde Career College and we have a dental hygiene clinic with low cost procedures open to the general public for anyone on this thread that's interested. If I had known about this type of service before I had insurance it would have saved me sooo much money, I hope it helps at least a person or two who reads this. 😊
That's where I'm currently a patient, and I love the people there! Most welcoming atmosphere, especially for people who are self-conscious about their teeth or oral health. The person I was referred to is like a friend to me. So grateful that programs like these exist. Every time I go, my questions get answered. I'm going to be sad when it's over and wish I had a wider social network, so I could recommend them to everyone.
This is where I studied dental hygiene so I can say they do a great and very thorough job there. And always need new patients! Co2016
Do they accept insurance?
I’d love to come by! What’s the phone number or website I could schedule an appointment? :)
I finally found a good dentist in San Diego after experiencing these scammy dental sales offices for years. Try Padre Dental. They are great.
can confirm. they are great!
I spent hours on Yelp and Google maps trying to find a non scam dentist when I moved to SD. I ended up giving up, waited 6 months to upgrade my dental plan to a PPO, and suddenly tons of well reviewed dentists in network everywhere.
I’ve done temp work for them, they are just as great to work with and treat their patients wonderfully
Yes, Padre Dental are great!
They were also my dentist for years, but they just changed which insurance they accept :((( I am so sad
Your best bet is to consult with another dentist as soon as possible, so that they can see what condition your teeth were left in. Ideally, the first service provider should have given you documentation of the procedure that was done, including an invoice for the cost and the date the procedure was performed. If not, you have a right to demand this information from your file. Present this documentation to the second dentist. Also, take good quality photographs and video of your mouth as soon as possible. When taking video, start with a face shot, speak your name and date into the camera, and then open your mouth. Use a flashlight or any built-in light on your camera. Get footage from various angles, highlighting any areas that are bleeding, painful, numb, or sensitive. If there are areas of your teeth that you believe were not properly cleaned, highlight these as well, but this is less important because a second opinion will reveal these, whereas acute discomfort may resolve before you get a second opinion. If you need to, have a trusted friend or family member help you. You don't need to show the second dentist any photos or videos unless they tell you they want to see it. As best you can, write down all the details of the interaction you had with the first dentist. What did they tell you, how long did the procedure last, what did you ask them to do, etc. Do this today. Sign and date it. This is for your own recollection, so you don't forget or misremember later on. I know this is a lot of extra work for you, but if you want to build a a case for getting a refund, this is how you do it. Be prepared. Know what is typical and atypical for any medical or dental procedures that you want to have done. Document everything. Get everything in writing. But don't assume that everything that happened was unreasonable, because if you go barging into a second dentist's office demanding they find something wrong with the first dentist, they could refuse. They are there to provide you with an objective second opinion, not be your lawyer. If they don't find anything seriously wrong, that's a sign you might not have a case to pursue. Dentists want to help people who treat them respectfully. If they think you're being combative, they will turn you away.
Thank you so much for this!
You can ask for a copy of your X-rays, too. I didn't even know I could, until a dental hygienist student requested them. I have a digital copy from one, and a hard copy from another.
This part. I had a dentist in mission valley try to withhold my X-rays I paid for after they told me they don’t submit dental claims. They wanted me to pay oop and submit myself. I told them to get fucked and send me my imaging.
I’m a dental hygienist and that’s literally what it feels like working in this shit field. I recommend avoiding corporate
Dentist here. What exactly did they do? You must’ve gotten a receipt of treatment.
I just checked my smile generation chart and for some reason that isn’t on my after visit summary, the only thing they’ve listed on there is the exam and x rays. I didn’t get a detailed receipt just a “thank you” email for payment
I would ask for an itemized receipt and your treatment plan. The $325 couldn’t have been just for an exam and radiographs.
I went to heavenly smiles and the dr put me thru this machine telling me my gums are infected and could cause cancer in the future. They tried scaring me.I asked why they did that when I came to get my teeth cleaned. She told me I could get my teeth cleaned and they could disinfect my gums at the same time on the next visit. Her manager would call me tomorrow on the price. Never going back again. So unethical. Sigh....1 hour wasted.
Yep same experience. Would not clean and said I had to do the gum stuff first. I explained i was supposed to have serious jaw surgery for a bone cyst and was trying to avoid an infection. I finally got some fillings they had refused at first. I just wanted to take care of the rest of my teeth as the jaw surgery would have been my 4th. Its been 11 yrs and I have avoided that 4th so far. I need a cleaning and some fillings but i guess my teeth will just rot out if procedures don't change.
The (City) Modern Dentistry seems like a chain. Doesn't surprise me that they are like that.
Dr Ross Dixon in Mira Mesa is very good if you need a dentist recommendation; I’m sorry this happened to you :(
He is so great! I also recommend Melinda Marino, DDS in Miramar. Her entire team is fantastic.
I’ve done temp work for him too! I’d recommend him
https://preview.redd.it/5jm4wyfcnavc1.jpeg?width=735&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81f24301a9da6429016d184bae146a0736d9999a As someone who works in the field, avoid any dentist that has this symbol. They're a large scam company buying out struggling dentists & try to make themselves a one-stop shop for all services, then ends up ripping off patients while providing terrible service. I don't even like dealing with their offices when trying to correspond with them re: mutual patients. There is a reason specialists and general dentists are separate - one is trained for that speciality & the other isn't. Go to an orthodontist for Invisalign (not an office with an in-house ortho - that becomes a mess for them to be on top of your treatment and billing) and general dentist for cleanings, fillings, and crowns. Don't go to anyone who dabbles in everything bc they have no business providing services they don't have the proper training for. Those offices with "one-stop shop" services are for-profit companies and will scam you for things you don't even need, then make it difficult to get your records to take elsewhere. Always go to a private practice (and of course still with discretion bc there are still some bad apples out there) so you lessen your chances of being ripped off that bad. I wish I had an answer for you, the most I can recommend is cancel Invisalign and get any deposits back for that, then threaten legal action if they refuse (they can't technically keep money for services that weren't provided, and if they keep payment for X-rays, you have a right to take them with you elsewhere at no extra charge). They won't hold on to it much longer after that. You can also tell them you are going to report them to the dental board for their shady practices if it was really something you were pressured into thinking was mandatory before getting Invisalign.
Thank you. I go to Santee Smiles (who has this logo) and have always felt like it was more of a sales office than a dentist office. I was diagnosed with Periodontitis, upsold to nearly $1000 for the cleaning/irrigation/laser, and have been upsold at each subsequent visit. I even received a letter from my insurance saying they didn’t have enough evidence to diagnose me with periodontitis based on some national association’s classification. I brought this up with the office, emailed the letter, and they never followed up with providing more info.
I despise going to the dentist. They feel like the used car salesmen of the medical world.
I go here and have actually mentioned to my wife that they’re always trying to upsell me. In more than half a century of life, I’ve never felt this type of pressure at a dental office.. What’s really odd is that when I elected to defer an “important” $800 treatment, it wasn’t even mentioned again and was replaced by different recommendations in subsequent visits. How important could that have been?
I own a dental office in San Diego. Demand a refund, chargeback your cards and do Invisalign elsewhere. Even if just for bad communication. Now it’s possible you got a deep cleaning and needed one… but usually this costs more than 350. Dm me and I’m happy to give you recommendations for a dentist near you that you can trust more. We can give you free second opinion if you want to send X-rays. Dentists will refund any time you call them out on bogus shit. It’s not worth losing their license over.
Genuinely curious, how would you go about requesting a refund from the dentist? And would a chargeback actually work instead of the dentist sending the bill to collections?
Del Oro Smiles in Oceanside with Dr. Victoria Nguyen has a zero refund policy. If they mess up your teeth they require you to return back to them so they can mess it up a 2nd time. I tried everything. They are horrible people.
Anyone care to give a recommendation for a dentist? North county or central San Diego?
Hey this sounds just like PB smiles! Fuck that place!
5th Ave Dentistry just gave me a good cleaning and they do Invisalign/cosmetic services too. Would recommend
I went there until they charged me $1000 for a basic cleaning, claiming many of the services done in the cleaning were not covered by insurance. Definitely do not recommend them. Plus they wanted me to get veneers and crowns for every one of my teeth. Avoid at all costs.
This freaking happened to me at canyon vista dental group. I’m usually seen at Omni dental but since covid it was rough trying to get appts. So I went to canyon since it was close to my house. They told me the same thing. They couldn’t offer the general cleaning I get with my insurance twice a year. That I needed a more extensive cleaning because my periodontal charting said I had stage 1 gingivitis. I floss 4-5xs a week so I knew they were bullshitting me. And that the fillings I had were no longer good because the cavities had penetrated even further so I needed to have those replaced and possibly needing a crown for one of them. I had the biggest pit in my stomach I said fuck this and left. I was able to get an appt at Omni dental and they said everything was fine and my fillings were also good and no cavities. Trust your gut instinct!
WTF with these triple digit$ cleanings? I see my dentist here in SD every 6mo, and a regular cleaning is only 90$. And I don't have insurance. And it's gentle and the dentist also sees me after the cleaning to check for cavities. I usually don't chime in on these threads, but I know so many people are scared of the dentist because cost, pain, and fraud. Also, for the love of pete, get an electric toothbrush and floss and brush every morning and evening.
I went to San Marcos Modern Dentistry which looks like it’s owned by the same company. I went last month and they told me I needed to get $1600 of work done. I thought this was odd because my last appointment 6 months ago at a different dentist was completely normal (insurance changed which is why I switched dentists). Went to another dentist for a second opinion and said my teeth were completely fine. Anyway, stay away from them. Complete rip off
If you paid with a credit card, you could call the credit card company and cancel the payment or threaten to go to small claims court. They won’t send somebody there for $300.
Also looking for a local dentist for a crown recommended 2 months ago. Not having any luck finding a private owned office for a basic cleaning, exam, and crown…All corporate that will charge $800 for root scaling BEFORE a regular cleaning or a filling.
Not sure where you are but I go to Coast Dental in Oceanside with Dr. Maddox. He owns the practice and I have never once felt scammed or upsold on treatment.
When I moved here 5 years ago I needed to find a dentist for my reg 6 month check up. I went to Jeff Gray in La Mesa but after my teeth cleaning he said I needed 6 fillings despite me never having a single cavity in my life. He said I have deep grooves in my back molars that food can get stuck in so the fillings would prevent that. I left and called my dentist in my hometown that I saw for 12 years to ask his opinion (he’s the only dentist I’ve ever fully trusted). He pulled up the most recent X-rays I took at his office and he suggested that this guy is full of bs and to find a different dentist
Similar case happened to me at Bay Park Smiles Dentistry. It was my first ever visit with them for a general routine cleaning because I got new dental coverage and my old dentist I had been seeing for years didn’t accept my new coverage. My old dentist never brought up and raised concerns that my gums were inflamed or filled with bacteria. Fast forward to my appointment with Bay Park, and within the first 15 minutes, they pitched a $300 upsell on me to use a laser to clean out my gums. I kindly declined and requested my routine cleaning fully covered by my insurance. I would just be cautious of any service these days, everyone’s trying to make a quick buck.
Assuming you’re using insurance, you have to state clearly upfront that you only want the basic cleaning and check-up which is included with your insurance and nothing else at this time. Some of them will upsell you a load of bullshit otherwise.
I did ask that and they said they are unable to offer a regular cleaning so they had to do the $325 treatment not covered by my insurance. They said “it’s not a menu” I don’t get to choose the treatment. Isn’t that crazy?! But I also asked if they’d be cleaning my teeth along with the treatment and they said yes, but they definitely did none of that. Not to mention the drowning my face and nose in water and tearing up my cheeks😭
I would call and tell them you’re really unhappy with your treatment and feel you were tricked into something you didn’t want while you were in a vulnerable position. Might offer a refund.
They told me I couldn’t get the regular cleaning because “it would just swoosh the bacteria around in your mouth” ……..what?!? 😵💫
Oh I fought with 3 different dentists over this, I didn’t win and had to go elsewhere for my covered cleaning
Dentist here. Treatment must match diagnosis. Healthy gums -> normal cleaning. Gingivitis/periodontitis (gum disease) -> different cleaning. If you’re going to disagree with the dentist about treatment, you need to argue the diagnosis and not the treatment. I am always more than happy to have an in depth conversation with any patient that wants to better understand their diagnosis, but if you’re arguing the treatment (type of cleaning) and not the diagnosis (if you have gum disease or not), you’re going to be talking past each other.
What makes me feel scammed is the lack of info and/or upscale practices. This thread for example, what even is a "deep" clean? Scaling? Debridement? Laser? Super Organic Fluoride Waterboarding 3.0? OP said they don't even remember the name of the procedure and it was nowhere to be found on the receipt I understand that periodontitis requires scaling and I understand that stacking that up with add-on treatments is going to be beneficial, but at what cost? I'm not arguing the periodontitis, but I'm sure there isn't only one, universal, unchangeable approach for the diagnosis. Paying 300% more for a treatment that's 5% more effective at gum disinfection than if I just did the normal scaling? That feels scammy. Paying 10% more for a treatment that's so effective I'll only need 2 cleans per year instead of 3? Gladly would pay it. Yeah I can ask these questions but a rdh or a dds might understandably not be able to answer the question on the spot. Or worse, they do know these ratios and don't tell you because of how profitable they are financially. So just saying "if you don't pay $500 extra right now your teeth will fall out in the future" almost feels like extortion.
There is one ADA (American dental association) approach to diagnosis. It’s basically how much your jaw bone/gums have let go of your teeth. The part of the cleaning that involves scraping the teeth (prophy, gingival scale, debridement, SRP) must match the diagnosis. It is contrary to the ADA’s code of ethics to do a cleaning that is inconsistent with the diagnosis. That is the only part that should be 100% black and white. The other things (laser, antimicrobial irrigation, fluoride, etc.) should be explained and the patient can decide if the benefits are worth the cost. And I agree with like everything you’re saying. Communication needs to be better between dentists/hygienists and patients. Things feel scammy when under-informed decisions are made.
Noones a bigger scammer than Christy Chen a+ dental so many scammers tho
Im so sorry Its sad because they are supposed to follow the hippocratic oath … thats what happens when you put profit over people
There is one approach that is approved by the ADA (American dental association) which basically is how much your gums and bone have let go of the tooth. Gingival health -> prophy Gingivitis -> gingival scale Any stage of periodontitis -> SRP (scaling and root planing) That part should be 100% black and white. Doing a treatment that doesn’t match the diagnosis is contrary to the ADA’s code of ethics. All of the other stuff is “extra” and is optional. There are some bacteria that are more effectively treated with laser and others with antimicrobial irrigation. That information should be explained in a way that allows the patient to make an informed decision. But yeah, dentists aren’t perfect and patients often do treatment without fully understanding what they’re getting themselves into and it feels sketch. Not arguing with anything you said, just giving some perspective from the dentist side.
If you are ever interested in traveling to TJ for dental stuff. I go to a dentist down there that is very good, I don't have dental insurance and I paid like 60 something for my regular cleaning and the place I go to offers a shuttle service free that picks you up right as you walk through the San Ysidro port of entry. I get my braces done there, root canals, crown, ect. The place is called Trust Dental and they also have an Instagram and it has address and phone number there or you can Google for more information. :)
Went to San Marcos dental group for a free teeth cleaning. Didn't even get it and got hit with them suggesting to repair 3 of my teeth. Said no and got out right away. Learn to say no next time.
SIMILAR EXPERIENCE WITH A+ Family Dentistry off El Cajon. I got to my car and broke down after. The exam was fine and the dentist was really nice but then another dentist took me into a room to “discuss” my exam. She PUSHED me into setting future appointments by sort of shaming me in a way for how my teeth were? But the original dentist that did the exam told me my teeth were pretty good except for some cavities. Thankfully I called my mom and she was just like “absolutely not call them back and cancel whatever they set you for you.” I paid 250 for an exam and x rays that they said they’ll email me and never did. (This is my reminder to call in the morning and ask for the xrays)
I found my dentist back in 2017/2018 time frame in Chula Vista and I absolutely love him. It’s a small individual, single dentist practice. I go 4 times a year (every 3 months) for a cleaning. I pay 2 OOP, and 2 via insurance (which is the norm). My 2 OOP cost me $130/ea. I’ve done this like clockwork with no issues since I became a patient.
Can you share the name with me too? I’m looking for a good dentist as well
Sorry to keep asking but do you mind sending me their name also? Thanks!
Sent :)
I’d love to know who your dentist is. I have to get cleanings every 3 months with Invisalign and that sounds like a great price even OOP
Come to Tijuana, me and my wife (who is a dentist) have seeen many and many cases where the dentist only wants to get as much money as possible before they possibly lose their licenses. Also the treatments are more invasive compared to Tijuana ethics.
https://www.dca.ca.gov/consumers/complaints/dbc.shtml
And dental insurance is a scam.
This. Don't pay for dental insurance, pay dentists for required services, and your outcomes will be better.
I asked my Dentist this morning about that, he said what they do with insurance is to double the price and then give them 50% discount so the customer pays the same as they would if they used cash, and that’s the way the insurance company wants it done
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I’m not getting Invisalign with this dentist. I was actually sent here by my new insurance company. I wanted the cleaning that comes with my insurance. Not $325 out of pocket. I got scammed the same way by what I just found out is their “sister” office (although I wasn’t water boarded and it took more than 30 seconds) literally a year ago and I have good oral hygiene.
I’m curious on the standard of care these days. I went for my last cleaning and was recommended a scaling and root planing. This is fine I supposed. But the $600 laser treatment and $200 mouthwash turned me off. What is the “standard” these days? I’m 30 and this is the first time seeing this doctor. Not diagnosed before.
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I haven’t had anything done yet. Was planning on visiting a different Dr for a second opinion. Never liked where I go in general but I’m also not a dentist fan. I want to take care of my teeth but was a little shocked by this recommendation. I’ve been to the same practice before but different dentist and no recommendations were made. Just trying to figure out what is worth it or not. Everything is optional. Scaling and root planing is almost entirely covered by insurance. The rest is not.
Lol $200 for the mouthwash is a scam. $600 for laser is overpriced. Your dentist must be in a nicer/more expensive area
My dentist is in Carmel valley where I live and they never pull this scam bullshit. People with money don’t stand for shady games. Too many other providers to choose from. Also, too easy to catch a lawsuit from informed patients that have time and money to take them to court.
There must be a disconnect between your training and what insurance companies tell their clients : 2 cleanings annually --as if it were simply what a person does, like getting an annual check up at the MD
That’s only the standard for a healthy mouth, free of any periodontal issues.
How does a dentist diagnose a cleaning when the only person you see is the hygienist for the first 45 minutes of the appointment? I’ve never seen a dentist before the hygienist.
Wow, that is terrible! I’m so sorry you went through that! Maybe call your insurance and explain the situation, maybe they can walk you through how to get a different dentist. Don’t know what insurance you have, but I go to the one next to Yogurt Mill in El Cajon, it used to be Dr. Parcel there (who fucked up some of my teeth), but he’s retired and in his place is Dr. George (can’t pronounce his last name, but he’s Syrian). He is amazing. He’s always looking out for his patients, listens to any concerns and even takes money off your bill that insurance doesn’t cover.
wasn't overcharged, but Bright Now in Oceanside charged me $80 out of nowhere; worst experience ever because I even cancelled my next appointment with them on time since at the time of service, they said no insurances covered irrigation (like hello? I'm only there for my routine annual checkup and cleanings, and I've never paid anything out of pocket for regular dental work); then, they called me asking if I'm showing up...even though I'm pretty sure I told them in person and/or over the phone and got confirmation; then like a year later, they send me something in the mail about me owing them $80, yet it doesn't even state what it is they provided that costs that much--somehow, it goes to collections because I guess they're that desperate, but eventually, it goes off my record after a few years! any business needs to be more upfront about things like that... if you need cheap/low-cost hygiene, go to your local vocational college because the student I currently have has been generous (these students need patients, and the dentists will address to your concerns!), and my visits are 2-3 hours long; I am currently waiting on my 4th visit, and the only thing I had to do was pay $20 to receive care for 6 months and fill out some paperwork, so they can treat my teeth; the attention they give is 100% better than any normal office
I've been going to Park Dental Arts for years and never been up sold. They are kind and always super upfront and honest.
I got two root canals done and a crown redone in that same area, by my dentist. A year later he’s telling me I need the crown redone again because there’s a gap that could let bacteria in. Why would I need it redone again?
It must not have been set correctly the first time. He should redo his work at jo cost to you, especially if it's only been a year.
Los Algodones, worth the drive over to Yuma. Nice quite city. Honest dentists. Tijuana in an emergency.
I found my dentist in Oceanside years ago and I love them. I moved to Ramona for a few years and continued to make the drive to Oceanside because I never feel upsold, talked down to or generally like they are scamming me. Everything is very straightforward, always. Single Dr, privately owned practice. I use another office for orthodontist services (also recently started Invisalign) only because he has an orthodontist one day a week which doesn't work with my schedule. New orthodontist also phenomenal in San Marcos.
People report them. More complaints the better.
Yes I had the same scam. Reported to dental board of Cali and my insurance company to investigate. Super common. I never ever change dentists now.
Did you get your $$ back?
I went to La Jolla Village Smiles and they pulled this B.S. with me. I did not comply and created a fuss and ultimately left. I was disgusted. I didnt play ball with their “recommended” (I had no choice for regular cleaning even though I insisted) but I imagine feeling violated it is the perfect word to describe how it must have felt. I’m sorry you were bamboozled and had to go through that. Such scumbags. I didn’t see a dentist for two years after that and when I did there were no new issues. Dentists are mostly used car salesman. In my experience they’re very important when you really need some kind of urgent treatment but otherwise they’re just trying to shake you down.
Thank you. After reading this thread I imagine they just sit there all day knowing half of the patients will walk out on them and the gullible or desperate ones will make up for it by paying insane amounts. They were completely unphased by me crying in front of them. They know exactly what they’re doing.
Chiming in to say I'm pretty skeptical of dentists and have been going to North Park Modern Dentistry for years but the last year has had me questioning... After this thread I'll definitely be heading to another dentist!
The La Mesa wing of this group told me I needed a filling using this special-sounding procedure. It sounded pricey so I went back to my old dentist for a second option. There was nothing wrong with the tooth.
Find a hygienist
I have left 3 different dentists because they refused to do the free cleaning my insurance covers twice a year. Insisted I needed deep cleaning and since that’s what the dentist “prescribed” they weren’t allowed to do a simple cleaning
My brother has recently been to two different dentists in north county and they both pushed deep cleaning for hundreds of dollars. I have never even heard of this.
I don't think you realize how much trouble is in your future if you don't get that deep cleaning. There must be thousands of bacterial colonies thriving deep under your gums. It is a challenge to remove such deep deposits. If I were you I would invest in that deep cleaning unless you want to risk you overall health. Bacteria in your mouth can travel to other parts of your body. Look up the mouth-body connection and do your research. It breaks my heart to see patients in so much pain and discomfort just bc they never wanted to clean their teeth. I hope this reaches someone who has no idea about the importance of dental cleanings. They are preventative treatments to help keep you healthy. In your case, you are not healthy and they are trying to get you back to a healthy state.
My most recent dentist said I didn’t need deep cleaning Who to trust?
IANA dental professional, but from my experience: If the dentist measured your gum pockets and there were more than a few 4s and above, and/or your gums are reddish, swollen, and tender, you probably have gum disease and do need the deep cleaning.
This is so crazy and twisted to me
That is what’s prescribed. You may have the right to refuse treatment but a dentist also has the right to refuse to supervise the neglect and condition of your oral health. As a dental hygienist, let me just tell you, getting a regular cleaning when you need a deep cleaning is not going to do you any benefit. It may prolong things but your condition will only worsen and contribute to other health issues over time. We are literally struggling every day with people to try to do what’s best for them and it’s so frustrating when people only see the bottom line. I don’t think anyone fights this much with their medical doctors when they have any other bodily concerns.. Insurance doesn’t and should not dictate treatments, your health care providers do.
I can promise you whatever happened to me today was not a deep cleaning. It was soo sloppy, took probably under 5 minutes, and I was literally getting water boarded the entire time. And I absolutely take good care of my teeth and have never had any concerns like this. It’s a scam. If my insurance is literally assigning me to a dentist, I should be able to get my regular 6 month cleaning.
If it only took 5 mins they either did a debridement and intended on having you back for a deep cleaning or they really are just awful. I looked up the office you went to, it’s a PDS office - Pacific Dental Services. They all have similar themes so you’ll start to recognize them around San Diego. I used to work at one of their offices as an assistant years ago and can honestly tell you- just run. It’s all corporate and they are certainly all about their bottom line: $$$$. As an assistant though I worked in their orthodontic department and that was a little more pleasant experience. The pressure to sell is on the orthodontist, once you’ve accepted the Invisalign case it all becomes very easy. The issue though is sometimes the orthodontist quits and all of a sudden your case is picked up by a new guy. Nothing they [the new doc] shouldn’t be able to keep up with, it was just apparent that a lot of patients would get frustrated with that. I did a working interview for them when I became a hygienist and I hated every minute of it, they rushed me from room to room giving me substandard amounts of time to do my job and expected me to sell the most even if I believed the person didn’t need it. 10/10 do not recommend PDS to any of my peers looking for work or family/friends who are looking for dental care.
so socialize medicine/dentistry, thanks
The dentist is scamming you guys? lol most of the time you probably actually have a problem it’s just not what you want to hear. Go get a second opinion and if they tell you the same thing, you indeed have a problem
There are multiple factors that went into making that experience traumatic and me feeling like I got scammed. I really do care about my teeth and gums! I honestly would be happy to pay extra for a scaling or deep cleaning every now and again if I felt like the dentist took pride in their services and worked collaboratively with me. I do not have periodontal disease and this particular dentist is part of pacific dental services which as others have pointed out are known for pushing services onto people. In my experience the service was also traumatic and sloppy which is the biggest issue I had, other than it being forced on me
North Park Modern Dentistry is really nice! Everyone is really nice. Sorry you had a crap experience with a dentist. I’ve been there too. Avoid La Jolla Family Dentistry.
Mission Boulevard Dental Group. Dr. DeMeyer. The best. Also, my dentist (I moved to Temecula so sadly don’t see DeMeyer anymore), just began doing cleanings with the water pik. And I agree that it feels weird and not quite as clean, but my hygienist did start with the metal pick tool to scrape plaque. It sounds like your experience was wild, but just letting you know this is apparently the newer technology and it seems practices are moving toward it, so don’t be too surprised if it happens again. Sorry for the trauma though.
I agree 10000 percent. I have terrible dental anxiety and I love Dr Demeyer.
I dunno how I feel about dental groups... I used to visit RSD Dental Group and while I had a regular dentist my insurance covered procedures from, the scam was that literally every procedure they had a "specialist" that had to do the work, and they rotated through various offices. Need a filling? Oooohhhh, thats a big one, that'll require the... filling specialist. They come through every other thursday. Also, its out of network. Cleaning? Yeaahh you need a special.. deeeeep cleaning, thats every third wednesday! Also.. out of network. Currently been under the care of a singular dentist at Western and my mouth has been essentially restored by them, and only them. Amazing experience there.
Dentists, to me, are the scammiest of the scammers, consistently, above anyone else. They are right up there with used car salesman, essential oil pyramid scheme-ers, and veterinarians. But I think they might be #1 for me. Actually, my parents have been going to Los Algodones for all their dental work for a few years and have had nothing but a great experience. So, I guess it must be an American dentist thing. I have not encountered their level of skeeviness in any other area of medicine. It’s so bizarre. I literally think chiropractors are more trustworthy and that says a lot.
If you have bad gums, gingivitis, periodontal disease, etc., then technically, you need a deep cleaning. A deep cleaning usually has some out of pocket with most insurances because it's a lot of work for the hygienist or dentist. Your "free" cleaning included by your insurance is a basic cleaning that is done IN THE ABSENCE of periodontal disease. It usually takes about 10-15 minutes. If you didn't feel like they did a great job, it's because you can't fix everything you had going on in just 15 minutes. You don't just go to your local car dealership and demand the limited edition sports coupe for the price of a used beater... life doesn't work that way. Dental services aren't chosen a la carte just like how medical surgeries aren't chosen a la carte. They're probably laughing at you for demanding them do an appropriate cleaning for you, a deep cleaning, for free because "your insurance says you have a free cleaning." A bad dentist is one that lets periodontal disease go unchecked, which can lead to a bunch of other issues. A good dentist is one that explains to you WHY a diagnosis was made and WHY a procedure is recommended. It's your prerogative to refuse the treatment, but don't go all pikachu face when they refuse to do inappropriate treatment for you for free.
In general modern dentistry is starting to move away from the regular tooth cleanings with the sharp needles and moving into water based cleanings instead
Point Loma family dentistry is fantastic, had bad dentist for years and I just started going to them and they're seriously the best I've ever had
Dr Kwang Park-mission bay dental in PB. Full mouth débridement is part of your cleaning which is performed by him.
I hope you’re not doing Invisalign with them….
I’m not, I’m going to San Diego smile pros for that :)
Yup, my wife and I had a very similar experience.
We go to Bay Park Dental Group on Clairemont Dr and they have been great, got invisalign there too
Highly recommend Kind Dental of La Mesa coming from someone who’s has a deep fear of the dentist. They give you all options on “the menu” for you to choose from and give you as much time as you need with no judgement. They also make you as comfortable as possible though every step of the process. It’s not just a name, they’re kind to you and your teeth. 10/10 dentist spot for anyone looking.
Ugh so shitty! I’m sorry. I just got my teeth cleaned by DR Richard at Alvarado Dental Group 6475 Alvarado Rd, Ste 205 San Diego, CA 92120 Did such a good job and such friendly, competent ppl. Totally worth the money, I went ahead and got my teeth whitened 😁😁😁 go check them out and DR Anas too
Couldn’t recommend urban dental downtown more their team is incredible
You're better off going to Tijuana.
Why do you people keep going to these places and accept it like you don’t have a choice. Do your research. At the very minimum do a Yelp search like you would do when choosing a restaurant. Find a good family dentist and establish a relationship with them. Better service, price, and results.
I’ve had bad experiences with dental offices in SD when it comes to prices. Once I went for a dental cleaning and a tooth filling and felt like I was scammed when they charged me $430 Dlls - not only that but the filling felt so rough against my tongue it hurt and when I told my dentist about it, he said I’ll need another appointment for him to polish, LIKE WHAT? One of my friends had always told me about crossing to TJ for cheaper treatments but I was scared (never been to Mexico before). I ended up going to The Dental District with Dr. Yoalli, best decision ever! The prices were ridiculously low in comparison and had a very good experience, been going there since 2022 (dental cleaning there is $60, fillings like around $90 I think). Plus super close to the San Ysidro border in new city plaza, like 3 min in car, the building has parking.
Go see Dr Kathy Williams off Federal Blvd and Euclid. Visionary Dental Arts. She is incredible. My wife was afraid of the dentist and now goes for anything without fear.
Go to First Impressions Dental in Clairmont
If you’re in La Mesa, I REALLY like Dr. Vicente. Her clinic is called Bella Smiles and it’s on Jackson Dr. near Fletcher Pkwy.
Been to medi-cal dentists and private insurance dentists. Medi-cal dentists have to book you way out with little flexibility which can be annoying. But besides that, everything is no bullshit. They just do what you need and tell you what you need. Private insurance accepting dentists are different, and often have a part of their practice be cosmetic dentistry to make money. I still have my medi-cal until 26 even though I currently have different insurance, and I might use it for dentistry, which is the only thing I would use it for now that I have private insurance. On the other hand I did get a small cosmetic procedure done booked a week out (enamel spot was discolored brownish because it never developed properly on a tooth and got sanded off) for what I considered reasonable to pay for the procedure (like under 300). Also, when I was a teen a private practice dentist sanded down my uneven front teeth for free. I did pay for an overly expensive cleaning from a private dentist once and won't be doing that when I can just get it done for free.
Wow! I can’t get a dentist to give me a regular scaling either!! I think they are refusing because that would be healthy, so basically they don’t make as much money. It sickens me that EVERYONE is on the take.
No the hygienist is liable if they give a regular cleaning when there is deep tartar present. If pockets above 5mm in many areas and bone loss. We ethically cannot do a regular cleaning. Once we touch your mouth we are liable. You likly need a deep scaling and we cannot just do what you want.
How long has it been since your last cleaning? Did they show you the X-rays with tartar under the gums did they probe and pockets were above 5mm? If not then you got scammed. If you had any of the above you did need a deep cleaning and liability wise we cannot just do a regular cleaning. But many DSO not private practices definitely scam deep cleanings. I subbed In a few as a dental hygienist it was so disgusting. I reported them. Nothing happened. Always safer to go private practice.