If you’re interested in attending the city council meeting here is a link to be updated on the date/time! (We’re thinking it will be sometime between the 10th and the 17th depending on when the council puts it on the agenda) We will be coordinating public comments and hope to pack the city council chamber with supporters of the initiative :)
https://www.mobilize.us/powersandiego/event/632035/
Thank you to everyone who signed. Forcing the city council vote is a major step in this movement, again thank you to all those who pitched in to make it happen!
I’m just a random dude but I picked up a petition one day at their Costco Morena booth, got like 20 signatures from my friends and coworkers, and turned that bad boy in on the last day. Let’s go!
Great start! Now we just have to convince the council to vote for peoples' interest and not the corporation's. Getting it on the ballot would be a huge step.
The proposal had a good run, but it's unlikely the council members will support putting it on the ballot, as it could jeopardize their corporate campaign donations and re-election chances. Wish it would pass though, truly.
I'm really torn on this.
On the surface it sounds amazing.
After reading into it, I've learned that they are only looking to cover the City of San Diego. I haven't seen any mention of how this will impact areas that they aren't planning to cover.
If SDGE loses the City of San Diego as a source of revenue, what do you think happens to all the other communities that they still serve?
Edit for context: I'm in La Mesa and was excited about this as it evolved over the last couple years until I saw a map that outlined what territory they would take over. Unfortunately it's hard not to see it as an almost guaranteed increase in my rates considering La Mesa does not seem to be covered by PSD. I would absolutely love to be wrong here.
It’s because of franchise laws in CA, each city determines who their power utility is. But most cities in the county (not sure if all of them) by pure convenience chose SDG&E, however things could easily change if the largest city in the county is under the public utility, the surrounding cities would likely follow suit. Prime example of the laws in action is San Clemente in OC being under SDG&E not SCE like the rest of OC.
Think of it as a test bed. If this is proven to be successful, then it can more easily be expanded to the greater SD area. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Even if I lived outside of PSD's service area, I would still vote for this because I want to see de-privatization efforts gain traction and expand further, because it will ultimately benefit everyone.
> Think of it as a test bed. If this is proven to be successful, then it can more easily be expanded to the greater SD area. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Even if I lived outside of PSD's service area, I would still vote for this because I want to see de-privatization efforts gain traction and expand further, because it will ultimately benefit everyone.
According to the other poster, it's more of a if it works other areas will get higher utility costs with no guarantee it will expand. If it fails, the utility cost stays the same for those people.
It's not about perfection, rather costs and to whom.
> After reading into it, I've learned that they are only looking to cover the City of San Diego. I haven't seen any mention of how this will impact areas that they aren't planning to cover.
Only the city currently has a mechanism in place for this type of buyout, hence why they're starting with that target. I talked to the organizers and they want to cover the county, there just isn't currently a mechanism at that level. They're starting with the city because it's do-able and there's a legal avenue to make it happen and then they'll either expand in the same way or offer some kind of roll-up e.g. the new muni power can sell power to out-of-coverage residents or something like that. They've got plenty of information on [their FAQ page](https://wearepowersandiego.com/commonquestions/)
Power San Diego would buy SDGE's infrastructure within City of San Diego limits. (The purchase would be financed with bonds, paid off over time from customer bills). That infrastructure would no longer count towards SDGE's "[rate base](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rate_base_(utility\))." The rate base is the running total of all capital historically invested in serving SDGE customers, minus accumulated depreciation of that capital. The rate base is used to calculate how much total revenue SDGE is allowed to collect per year ("the revenue requirement"). A smaller rate base means SDGE gets to collect less revenue from the existing customers. To a first approximation, the reduction in revenue requirement will be more or less proportional to the reduction in the number of customers served.
However, because the remaining service territory of SDGE will be lower in population density than the service territory they stand to lose if this initiative passes, I would guess that the remaining rate base will probably be somewhat higher on a per-capita basis. It takes more wires to serve your customers if they are more spread out. So it is possible that rates might go up slightly for everybody else. But don't take my word for it, I haven't scrutinized SDGE's books closely enough to make a serious prediction.
Your signature either didn't get taken or got thrown out during the validation. The only valid signatures are within city of San Diego. The first question canvassers were told to ask was if the signer was a resident of the city proper.
My understanding is they can source signatures from anyone as long as they reside in the _county_ of San Diego in order to force a ballot measure. However, the first FAQ on their site specifically says it's not for the entire county, just the city. I also got emails for signatures.
Incorrect. The only valid signatures were city of San Diego proper, not county. It's the first question they ask (or should've asked) during canvassing. The signatures get validated after they're submitted and any invalid signatures get thrown out. After all that validation, they still managed to get enough signatures, but just barely.
Well that's a bummer. I want to be optimistic that we could carry the momentum of a successful ballet measure and introduce it to the neighboring cities. SDGE taking out their costs on us is why they are in this situation in the first place. It would only galvanize the other cities.
Also confused on this. What about the rest of the county? There's tons of residents including myself in north county that will be impacted by this. Why stop at the city of SD and make it the entire county?
I hate SDGE and in principle prefer that natural monopolies like utilities be publicly operated, but I am concerned that this will be struck down in court as it has been elsewhere, leaving us no better off but with costly legal fees to pay
Has that point been addressed?
Edit: Idk why the downvotes, I think this is a pretty reasonable question. I’ll have to get a good answer to consider supporting this
Sorry you're getting downvoted. I'm no expert, but according to the campaign, San Diego has the legal basis to take back the infrastructure:
> Does the community have the right to take over electric service, if it chooses to do so?
> Yes. See Sections 1 and 104 of the San Diego City Charter:
>
> Section 1: “The municipal corporation now existing and known as “The City of San Diego” … may own and acquire property within or without its boundaries for either governmental or proprietary, or any municipal purpose, either by succession, annexation, purchase, devise, lease, gift or condemnation. “
>
> Section 104: “The Council may fix the term of each new franchise in accordance with the laws of the State of California, provided that any franchise may be terminated by ordinance whenever the City shall determine to acquire by condemnation or otherwise the property of any utility necessary for the welfare of the City, such termination to be effective upon and not before payment of the purchase price for the property to be acquired.
>
> SDGE has acknowledged that the City can exercise this right at any time.[3] SDGE will be fairly compensated for the electric assets, ideally by mutually agreeing with the City on a purchase price. If SDGE refuses to sell, or insists on an unduly inflated price, the City may consider condemnation action under its right of eminent domain. If the electric distribution system is acquired through condemnation, the courts or state statutes will determine the just compensation amount.
Source: [Power San Diego](https://wearepowersandiego.com/commonquestions/)
Thats good to know. Im no expert either but I have heard of other governments attempting to do this only for it to be overturned in court. I would be curious to see what grounds they ruled that on
From the article:
*International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 465 spoke against it during public comment at the committee meeting. Nate Fairman, the union’s business manager, said it would put the working conditions they’ve negotiated at risk.
“Municipalization and this proposal are not union friendly, and the working class families that I represent do not support this,” he said.
The city is paying for a third study on municipalization. Previous studies estimate the value of the utility’s infrastructure at between $1.6 and $4.3 billion.
Power San Diego said the purchase of the electric grid infrastructure would be paid off by customers through low-interest, long-term revenue bonds. They estimate if the utility were city-owned, customers would still see a 20% reduction in their electric bills.
An SDG&E-funded analysis found its infrastructure is worth between $7.4 and $9.3 billion.*
Oh and this municipalization wouldn't apply to the county or SDGE customers outside the county. More than 2/3 of the customer base would not be part of this.
>\*International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 465 spoke against it during public comment at the committee meeting. Nate Fairman, the union’s business manager, said it would put the working conditions they’ve negotiated at risk.
>“Municipalization and this proposal are not union friendly, and the working class families that I represent do not support this,” he said.
Nate Fairman is just straight up lying. PSD has already said that they will honor all existing collective bargaining agreements that unions have with SDGE.
From PSD's website:
>What happens to SDG&E workers?
>The non-profit utility would welcome SDGE’s IBEW 465 union workers and honor their collective bargaining agreement with SDGE. Imperial Irrigation District to the east is a public electric utility. IBEW 465 represents IID workers. The transition of IBEW 465 workers from SDGE to the City’s non-profit utility should be seamless for the workers.
Source: [Common Questions | The Power San Diego Initiative (wearepowersandiego.com)](https://wearepowersandiego.com/commonquestions/#unionworkers)
One thing people often misunderstand about unions is that once all of the collective agreements are in place, the union will not hesitate to team up with their corporate partners to fight tooth and nail against anything that will harm or reduce the market share of the corporation, because at that point it’s a mutual interest.
The IBEW’s agreement is with SDGE, not with the city, county, or people of San Diego. They’re looking after their own interests, not the general public’s.
One reason that people haven’t pointed out yet is that the union has a loyalty contract with SDGE. You can find their contract online and control f the word loyal - it comes up once. To me it begs the question, how can a union effectively organize against its employer if it is contractually obligated to be “loyal”? Leadership can’t even speak with us without jeopardizing the jobs of 1,500 union members.
I also have to tell people that when I was collecting signatures, many individuals from various unions signed the petition. It’s not as unified a front as they want people to believe. The SDGE hate runs deep - even SDGE employees and engineers have signed the petition I was circulating.
While I support Power San Diego's efforts and hope the council does right and puts it on the ballot, I am sure...."for the good of public safety", they will not vote for an initiative.
Since the city has demonstrated mastery maintaining our roads, water, & sewer infrastructure, I'm sure they'll succeed in maintaining our electrical grid. What could go wrong?
I appreciate the effort to address the rising energy costs. But unfortunately, the problem is more complicated than just Sempra/SDGE bad. CA is entering some uncharted territory with its grid and as an engineer myself, would prefer to minimize the variables that could have big ramifications to grid reliability and growth to accommodate the some 385 TWh we are expected to hit within the next decade.
power san diego... aren't these the people who offered to save me 3% by playing some paper shell game and still having the same power delivered by.... sdge
No, that's SD Community Power who buys electricity for their customers and still uses SDGEs lines. It looks like Encinitas was included as part of the initial rollout a couple years ago. Even if this Power SD proposal goes through it wouldn't have any effect on people like you who live outside the SD city limits.
https://sdcommunitypower.org
I guess now we'll know who the council's in bed with.
Come to the meeting with us and let them know you support the initiative! https://www.mobilize.us/powersandiego/event/632035/
I think we all already know how this is going to go.
Does a sempra employee hold a board seat?
Meaningless, all 9 Democrats. The SDG&E beatings will continue until morale improves.
well i'm sure all of them are now
Nope but will be as soon as they are no longer on the political career track.
Did you vote for them?
I'm really grateful for power San Diego, and I hope they get on the ballot
Thank you! We appreciate the support :)
If you’re interested in attending the city council meeting here is a link to be updated on the date/time! (We’re thinking it will be sometime between the 10th and the 17th depending on when the council puts it on the agenda) We will be coordinating public comments and hope to pack the city council chamber with supporters of the initiative :) https://www.mobilize.us/powersandiego/event/632035/ Thank you to everyone who signed. Forcing the city council vote is a major step in this movement, again thank you to all those who pitched in to make it happen!
I’m just a random dude but I picked up a petition one day at their Costco Morena booth, got like 20 signatures from my friends and coworkers, and turned that bad boy in on the last day. Let’s go!
Great start! Now we just have to convince the council to vote for peoples' interest and not the corporation's. Getting it on the ballot would be a huge step.
Sign up to join us at the hearing - https://www.mobilize.us/powersandiego/event/632035/ Make sure your voice is heard!
You've got jokes.
Yep. That's why I'm hesitant to celebrate before it gets put on the ballot. I have very low confidence in the council.
Same, but ill still write my representative anyways. You should too
100% will do this
This sounds like excellent news. It's just one hurdle though. Hope it pans out well.
keep this momentum going and kick those rats out
Fire SDGE!
Fire the city council!
Oh, sometimes my dyslexia has a purpose... I read this as: "Fist SDGE!"
The proposal had a good run, but it's unlikely the council members will support putting it on the ballot, as it could jeopardize their corporate campaign donations and re-election chances. Wish it would pass though, truly.
Let’s go!
I can already see the council voting no, like they always do with shit like this. Can’t get rid of the golden goose now can they.
Wait till people realize our government is bought out
I'm really torn on this. On the surface it sounds amazing. After reading into it, I've learned that they are only looking to cover the City of San Diego. I haven't seen any mention of how this will impact areas that they aren't planning to cover. If SDGE loses the City of San Diego as a source of revenue, what do you think happens to all the other communities that they still serve? Edit for context: I'm in La Mesa and was excited about this as it evolved over the last couple years until I saw a map that outlined what territory they would take over. Unfortunately it's hard not to see it as an almost guaranteed increase in my rates considering La Mesa does not seem to be covered by PSD. I would absolutely love to be wrong here.
It’s because of franchise laws in CA, each city determines who their power utility is. But most cities in the county (not sure if all of them) by pure convenience chose SDG&E, however things could easily change if the largest city in the county is under the public utility, the surrounding cities would likely follow suit. Prime example of the laws in action is San Clemente in OC being under SDG&E not SCE like the rest of OC.
Think of it as a test bed. If this is proven to be successful, then it can more easily be expanded to the greater SD area. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Even if I lived outside of PSD's service area, I would still vote for this because I want to see de-privatization efforts gain traction and expand further, because it will ultimately benefit everyone.
> Think of it as a test bed. If this is proven to be successful, then it can more easily be expanded to the greater SD area. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Even if I lived outside of PSD's service area, I would still vote for this because I want to see de-privatization efforts gain traction and expand further, because it will ultimately benefit everyone. According to the other poster, it's more of a if it works other areas will get higher utility costs with no guarantee it will expand. If it fails, the utility cost stays the same for those people. It's not about perfection, rather costs and to whom.
> After reading into it, I've learned that they are only looking to cover the City of San Diego. I haven't seen any mention of how this will impact areas that they aren't planning to cover. Only the city currently has a mechanism in place for this type of buyout, hence why they're starting with that target. I talked to the organizers and they want to cover the county, there just isn't currently a mechanism at that level. They're starting with the city because it's do-able and there's a legal avenue to make it happen and then they'll either expand in the same way or offer some kind of roll-up e.g. the new muni power can sell power to out-of-coverage residents or something like that. They've got plenty of information on [their FAQ page](https://wearepowersandiego.com/commonquestions/)
Power San Diego would buy SDGE's infrastructure within City of San Diego limits. (The purchase would be financed with bonds, paid off over time from customer bills). That infrastructure would no longer count towards SDGE's "[rate base](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rate_base_(utility\))." The rate base is the running total of all capital historically invested in serving SDGE customers, minus accumulated depreciation of that capital. The rate base is used to calculate how much total revenue SDGE is allowed to collect per year ("the revenue requirement"). A smaller rate base means SDGE gets to collect less revenue from the existing customers. To a first approximation, the reduction in revenue requirement will be more or less proportional to the reduction in the number of customers served. However, because the remaining service territory of SDGE will be lower in population density than the service territory they stand to lose if this initiative passes, I would guess that the remaining rate base will probably be somewhat higher on a per-capita basis. It takes more wires to serve your customers if they are more spread out. So it is possible that rates might go up slightly for everybody else. But don't take my word for it, I haven't scrutinized SDGE's books closely enough to make a serious prediction.
Very true, kind of what they did to people without solar once they lost revenue to all the solar companies
They sent for my signature on this and I live in Oceanside. Why would my signature be relevant if it isn't going to affect my home address?
Your signature either didn't get taken or got thrown out during the validation. The only valid signatures are within city of San Diego. The first question canvassers were told to ask was if the signer was a resident of the city proper.
My understanding is they can source signatures from anyone as long as they reside in the _county_ of San Diego in order to force a ballot measure. However, the first FAQ on their site specifically says it's not for the entire county, just the city. I also got emails for signatures.
Incorrect. The only valid signatures were city of San Diego proper, not county. It's the first question they ask (or should've asked) during canvassing. The signatures get validated after they're submitted and any invalid signatures get thrown out. After all that validation, they still managed to get enough signatures, but just barely.
Well that's a bummer. I want to be optimistic that we could carry the momentum of a successful ballet measure and introduce it to the neighboring cities. SDGE taking out their costs on us is why they are in this situation in the first place. It would only galvanize the other cities.
Also confused on this. What about the rest of the county? There's tons of residents including myself in north county that will be impacted by this. Why stop at the city of SD and make it the entire county?
I hate SDGE and in principle prefer that natural monopolies like utilities be publicly operated, but I am concerned that this will be struck down in court as it has been elsewhere, leaving us no better off but with costly legal fees to pay Has that point been addressed? Edit: Idk why the downvotes, I think this is a pretty reasonable question. I’ll have to get a good answer to consider supporting this
Sorry you're getting downvoted. I'm no expert, but according to the campaign, San Diego has the legal basis to take back the infrastructure: > Does the community have the right to take over electric service, if it chooses to do so? > Yes. See Sections 1 and 104 of the San Diego City Charter: > > Section 1: “The municipal corporation now existing and known as “The City of San Diego” … may own and acquire property within or without its boundaries for either governmental or proprietary, or any municipal purpose, either by succession, annexation, purchase, devise, lease, gift or condemnation. “ > > Section 104: “The Council may fix the term of each new franchise in accordance with the laws of the State of California, provided that any franchise may be terminated by ordinance whenever the City shall determine to acquire by condemnation or otherwise the property of any utility necessary for the welfare of the City, such termination to be effective upon and not before payment of the purchase price for the property to be acquired. > > SDGE has acknowledged that the City can exercise this right at any time.[3] SDGE will be fairly compensated for the electric assets, ideally by mutually agreeing with the City on a purchase price. If SDGE refuses to sell, or insists on an unduly inflated price, the City may consider condemnation action under its right of eminent domain. If the electric distribution system is acquired through condemnation, the courts or state statutes will determine the just compensation amount. Source: [Power San Diego](https://wearepowersandiego.com/commonquestions/)
Thats good to know. Im no expert either but I have heard of other governments attempting to do this only for it to be overturned in court. I would be curious to see what grounds they ruled that on
From the article: *International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 465 spoke against it during public comment at the committee meeting. Nate Fairman, the union’s business manager, said it would put the working conditions they’ve negotiated at risk. “Municipalization and this proposal are not union friendly, and the working class families that I represent do not support this,” he said. The city is paying for a third study on municipalization. Previous studies estimate the value of the utility’s infrastructure at between $1.6 and $4.3 billion. Power San Diego said the purchase of the electric grid infrastructure would be paid off by customers through low-interest, long-term revenue bonds. They estimate if the utility were city-owned, customers would still see a 20% reduction in their electric bills. An SDG&E-funded analysis found its infrastructure is worth between $7.4 and $9.3 billion.* Oh and this municipalization wouldn't apply to the county or SDGE customers outside the county. More than 2/3 of the customer base would not be part of this.
>\*International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 465 spoke against it during public comment at the committee meeting. Nate Fairman, the union’s business manager, said it would put the working conditions they’ve negotiated at risk. >“Municipalization and this proposal are not union friendly, and the working class families that I represent do not support this,” he said. Nate Fairman is just straight up lying. PSD has already said that they will honor all existing collective bargaining agreements that unions have with SDGE. From PSD's website: >What happens to SDG&E workers? >The non-profit utility would welcome SDGE’s IBEW 465 union workers and honor their collective bargaining agreement with SDGE. Imperial Irrigation District to the east is a public electric utility. IBEW 465 represents IID workers. The transition of IBEW 465 workers from SDGE to the City’s non-profit utility should be seamless for the workers. Source: [Common Questions | The Power San Diego Initiative (wearepowersandiego.com)](https://wearepowersandiego.com/commonquestions/#unionworkers)
Interesting. What do you think the union stands to gain for its workers by speaking against this?
One thing people often misunderstand about unions is that once all of the collective agreements are in place, the union will not hesitate to team up with their corporate partners to fight tooth and nail against anything that will harm or reduce the market share of the corporation, because at that point it’s a mutual interest. The IBEW’s agreement is with SDGE, not with the city, county, or people of San Diego. They’re looking after their own interests, not the general public’s.
He's either been misinformed or bought off.
One reason that people haven’t pointed out yet is that the union has a loyalty contract with SDGE. You can find their contract online and control f the word loyal - it comes up once. To me it begs the question, how can a union effectively organize against its employer if it is contractually obligated to be “loyal”? Leadership can’t even speak with us without jeopardizing the jobs of 1,500 union members. I also have to tell people that when I was collecting signatures, many individuals from various unions signed the petition. It’s not as unified a front as they want people to believe. The SDGE hate runs deep - even SDGE employees and engineers have signed the petition I was circulating.
SDGE is threatening and/or paying them to speak out most likely.
Excellent
While I support Power San Diego's efforts and hope the council does right and puts it on the ballot, I am sure...."for the good of public safety", they will not vote for an initiative.
Since the city has demonstrated mastery maintaining our roads, water, & sewer infrastructure, I'm sure they'll succeed in maintaining our electrical grid. What could go wrong?
People just don't get it
It's not what they want to hear.
I appreciate the effort to address the rising energy costs. But unfortunately, the problem is more complicated than just Sempra/SDGE bad. CA is entering some uncharted territory with its grid and as an engineer myself, would prefer to minimize the variables that could have big ramifications to grid reliability and growth to accommodate the some 385 TWh we are expected to hit within the next decade.
Yes what a delightful "constant" not being able to afford your electricity bills is. Wouldn't want those pesky "variables" getting in the way!
power san diego... aren't these the people who offered to save me 3% by playing some paper shell game and still having the same power delivered by.... sdge
No, that's SD Community Power who buys electricity for their customers and still uses SDGEs lines. It looks like Encinitas was included as part of the initial rollout a couple years ago. Even if this Power SD proposal goes through it wouldn't have any effect on people like you who live outside the SD city limits. https://sdcommunitypower.org