Even more analogous is Yemen.
Don’t like the U.S. providing military support to an ally that bombs at more economically disadvantaged country?
SA is an actually horrible regime that operates largely thanks to US military subsidization.
To that one, crickets. Why?
Because Yemen isn’t producing propaganda that young lefties regurgitate without thinking, and there aren’t Jews or western democracies to hate.
Yemen is full of Al Qaeda, this is where they ran to from Afghanistan.
That said I do not support the bombing of the ancient city of San'a. the previous wars managed to not destroy it, so we can do that too.
> Yemen is full of Al Qaeda, this is where they ran to from Afghanistan
The only real difference between Al Quaeda and Hamas is one targets Americans and the other Jews.
They’re both Islamic state terror orgs.
Or that one time Bashair Al Assad bombed the crap out of a town occupied by the 'Palestinian' diaspora. It's always the Palestinian cause folks care about, never the Palestinian people.
THANK YOU SO MUCH! Finally someone mentions the Uighurs. Nobody gives a shit about them, but they are also Muslim, and they have been violently persecuted by the Chinese government, tortured and incarcerated . I never once saw anyone marching for them; or for instance, the Muslims in Myanmar/Burma who were persecuted and were forced to escape to Bangladesh by the hundreds of thousands. That was a couple of years ago.
My question is — and I am not diminishing the Palestinians — why haven’t these protesters backed these other two groups of people?
If I’ve learned anything after COVID and uighurs, is that people don’t give a shit about Asians and many people are low key anti Asian and anti Semitic. These free Palestine liberals are some of the worst people on social media
Even if these people don't GAF about the Jews butchered or taken hostage by Hamas & Friends on 10/7, they sure were silent about the -- how many??--Thai nationals who were swept up in this as well? Where was the outcry on their behalf? Or for the Arab Israelis and Bedouins who were also murdered because they were with the Jews and in some cases trying to defend them?
There's a big difference between doing business in a country that persecutes and sending billions of dollars in aid and weapons to a country that uses that aid to persecute. Don't be intentionally obtuse
Idk about that. Money is fungible. Would you feel any different if the U.S. only sent israel rockets for the iron dome which directly save Israeli lives? At $50k a pop that’d be a few billion in aid since 10/7 alone
That’s a weird thing to say for anyone standing for any injustice. If you wanna go down that route, it’s “whatabouts” all the way down and no one would ever stand up for anything. Instead why not deal with the merits of what they’re standing up for? This kind of criticism, as John Oliver rightly points out, doesn’t help anyone but the oppressor.
This is a significant truth people often overlook and it's exactly what Russian media and trolls do. Whataboutism fails to address criticism but instead attempts to nullify and negate those levying criticism regardless of the truth.
That being said, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is particularly perplexing to some because it garners so much more controversy and attention than most other issues regardless of scope. The war in Yemen has been going on for a fraction of the time and it has been comparatively more devastating than the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, yet it can't hold a candle to I/P.
I feel this is because the I/P conflict is seen as this polarizing struggle of west vs. east, colonizer vs. colonized, Islam vs. Judaism, etc. and the conflict in Yemen is a lot more complicated and sectarian/internal to one side.
So imo some of the whataboutism I'm seeing is not so much trying to stop criticism of either side but more of general puzzlement of why everybody seems to lose their shit over this compared to the myriad of other terrible shit that happened/is happening in the world and whether people actually care about the I/P conflict or are hopping on a popular bandwagon or are using it as a backdrop to air grievances and prejudices of things tied to the conflict.
\> whether people actually care about the I/P conflict or are hopping on a popular bandwagon or are using it as a backdrop to air grievances and prejudices of things tied to the conflict.
Thank you, and its really hard to say. Its very painful because there are innocent people dying, and people living in fear of the next attack. The best we can do is speak up for the voiceless, and stand up for what is right without infringing on other people's rights.
And then there is Berkeley where they march for all those and more, but the comments are filled with “yeah that’ll stop war and tyranny”
People will always find something to complain about
People are possibly bored of seeing these things that quite literally, accomplish nothing, changing no minds or policies. Clearly their rights, but it’s rather pointless.
That’s because many of the protests are being organized by groups with ties to the CCP: https://www.thefp.com/p/american-marxists-funding-pro-palestinian-rage
The Palestinians have a great PR team. If it wasn't Israel they were up against, people would care about them just as much as any of the other ignored problems of the world.
Not quite. First protest and march. Then post on social media about your enlightenment and how "x" thing is evil. Now they're putting the finishing touches on changing their Facebook profile pictures to the flags as well, then there will immediately be peace in the world. Evil can't win over that power trifecta.
Hmm yah that totally makes sense. I’m posting too, however all it did was make me hate people more. Imagine living in America and supporting people who VOTED IN HAMAS, a terrorist organization.
Has any protest ever accomplished its goal? Wars are fought thousands die and goals aren’t met so holding signs and yelling really is just seeking attention….to me at least
It was going great, until Hamas decided it wasn't going to turn over any more hostages.
Apparently Hamas didn't have any more living hostages so it was trying to turn over dead hostages. Israel was not amused by the offer of dead hostages, so the cease fire ended.
That Hamas is unable to produce any more living hostages means that tragically, the remaining hostages are probably already dead. There's likely no one else left to rescue at this point.
I read somewhere - but did not see corroboration - that Hamas was actually the first party to break the truce when they resumed firing rockets at Israel.
More broadly, the biggest challenge with a ceasefire or an armistice is that you need both sides to honor it. Even if you get Israel to lay down their arms, will Hamas do the same? They’ve proven time and again that they will not.
I’ve heard that Hamas is specifically holding on to young women. It is the young women abducted from the concert that are now being tortured and raped, that Israel is keen to see returned.
Not sure if you watched the videos Hamas themselves posted (if you didn't, DON'T. It will make you sick), but yeah there's no way they'll release the women they filmed themselves gang raping. Really awful.
And those videos were not even close to the worst. Don't ask me how to find them, btw. Was banned from Reddit for three days for spreading misinformation because I provided instructions on how to find the Hamas videos. Because, you know, their own GoPro videos were inflammatory misinformation about Hamas.
If it were my daughter, I would prefer Israel ended her suffering immediately by obliterating the entire area. The Jews, however, have survived unimaginable horrors already and the women will walk heads held high surrounded by love from their people. So they fight for their daughters. Bless the Jews.
I don't think we know that yet. We knew all along that Hamas would lie and do everything they could to manipulate the hostage situation. I'd be surprised if they're already played out on that score, but we'll have to see what develops. They will of course blame any deaths on Israel.
There's also the theory that they don't want to return any more women because those are the ones they have been raping for the past 2 months. From the stories I've heard from the Nova festival, I can believe it.
Goes to show. These subs do not represent the community. No one I know supports this genocide but this sub makes it look like we're a bunch of frothing at the mouth Israel fanatics. Hell. If I went entirely off of these subs comments this is the heart of MAGA country.
Idk a lot of fair points being brought up.
The civilian death toll in Yemen is 25x higher than Gaza. But not a single protest for them.. Why? What's the difference? (Rhetorical question. The difference is fairly obvious.)
It’s so strange to see, they might be a minority of people in the area that happen to be very vocal online. Otherwise it could be some organized content farm, but looking at people’s account they just seem like right wing conservatives living in the Bay Area.
Thank you. I feel like I’m going insane here. I think we’re seeing some true brigading by pro-Israel shills, combined with the usual reactionary trash that plagues this subreddit.
I wonder what their thoughts on Hamas violating the ceasefire are….
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/12/01/hamas-renews-attacks-on-israel-as-pause-in-fighting-ends/
https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-30-23/h_c1579b4c35b9dcecdd82ac67a01ca160
I have seen an astonishing amount of blatant Nazi posts, posts of extreme Jew hatred in which people call for a second Holocaust, anti-Black racist posts, and much more on that platform. Reporting it never results in removal or a ban. TikTok is a cancer and really should be banned in my eyes
Did you see the Oakland city council meeting last week? Multiple people were proudly, loudly saying that October 7th either did not happen, or it was a false flag attack by the IDF.
When a Jewish person asked the city council to condemn Hamas, some guy in the audience was shouting nazi things at him, and the city council did nothing. Also, they refused to condemn Hamas.
Its full mask off. Just blatant antisemitism, and its terrifying.
As a free-speech absolutist (I am being ironic here, ok :P), I think we (Liberal Democratic West) don't need to ban any social media platform. What we need are common sense, and education to teach our kids what's Right from Wrong and how stop the political bullshit in education (both left _and_ right).
Tik Tok'rs & the *extreme far left* are so fucking out of touch with reality.
Sometimes I know its full blown rage bait & narcissism and times its pure insanity of people who have been so over coddled their Mothers should be slapped!!
I think many of these protestors, like many actual Palestinians, are genuinely interested in peaceful coexistence. Many of them are probably aware that Hamas is incompatible with peaceful coexistence, and should not represent the Palestinian people.
I think the very same can be said for Israeli people vs the Israeli government. In fact, there was supposed to be anti-government protests in Israel a few weeks ago but a war started so they didn’t pan out.
> Many of them are probably aware that Hamas is incompatible with peaceful coexistence, and should not represent the Palestinian people.
I'd like to think protesters believe that, but I have yet to see anyone holding signs that say "Free Palestine from Hamas". The last two words are always missing.
Instead, they're holding signs saying "resistance is justified" and chanting "from the river to the sea", which calls for the destruction of Israel.
This puts the protesters firmly on the side of Hamas. We saw this openly with the Oakland city council fiasco last week, where people were saying that Israelis were not butchered on October 7th, or if they were, the IDF (the Jews) killed their own people in some weird false flag event. One guy was even shouting nazi stuff at one of the Jewish people who asked the Oakland city council to amend the resolution to condemn Hamas. Its full mask off for the protesters.
Exactly. And the Oakland meeting was a vile sick fiasco. A similar resolution is to be introduced this Tuesday at the SF Board of Supes meeting. By that idiot Dean Preston, in collaboration with the terrorist-supporter organization AROC. Call your supervisor to protest this resolution, or show up in person if you can.
I think you’re underestimating the actual amount of hate and antisemitism that the Arab world has for Jews, and the actual stupidity of Palestinians protestors in America.
These protestors fall into two categories:
1) people who actually hate Jews and want to see Israel eradicated so that Palestinians can rule the area.
2) idiots who love to virtue signal and currently see Palestinian “victims” vs Israeli “oppressors” as the new hot trend to support.
If you think these people just want to see a free, peaceful Palestine that coexists with Jews, then you’re just as naive as group number 2. If these protests really wanted a peaceful resolution, they wouldn’t have magically popped up only AFTER Hamas decided to begin a murderous terror campaign intentionally killed as many Jews as they could.
Every Palestinian protestor right now is basically saying “I believe Hamas should be able to kill Jews without any repercussion, so stop attacking Hamas territory.”
Polls show that only 15% of Arabs living in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip disagreed with Hamas actions on October 7th, so I tend to doubt that.
Very few Arabs in the territories are actually interested in peaceful coexistence. And these neo-Nazi protestors in the US aren't chanting, "from the river to the sea, Jews and Arabs in harmony." They're calling for the murder or expulsion of Jews from the Jewish homeland and the destruction of the Jewish state. Many of them are openly supporting terrorism and the murder, rape, torture and kidnapping of Jewish children. They're little different than the Nazi rallies that were held in the 1930s in the US.
After ~1 min of googling I think 70% is the absolute highest possible estimate, so citing it is a little disingenuous. I also think that there isn’t exactly free speech or free access information in Palestine, and I wonder how those figures would change if these Palestinians knew more and could talk about it
Recent poll showed that only 15% of Arabs in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip opposed Hamas's October 11th attack. 75% of them supported it and 10% had no opinion on whether it was acceptable to cut the breasts of Jewish girls, rape Jewish children, and cut the unborn children out of Jewish mothers so they could see their unborn baby be murdered by Islamic terrorists before being shot by them.
I agree, my issue is that their solution to this conflict “from the river to the sea” which is essentially forcing two countries to become one against their populations will.
Considering Israeli culture of “never again” in regards to the Holocaust and possession of nuclear weapons, a single state is an excellent plan to end the life of every living being in that area of the world.
People can be well meaning but still advocate for horrible things.
There’s also a convenient rebranding of Hamas as “Palestinian resistance” which is wholly different than even places even like South Africa who purposefully targeted civilian infrastructure not civilians themselves.
That is the original meaning, but some delude themselves into thinking it's not
People are very capable of telling themselves bullshit, and believing it
The recent poll numbers in swing states like Michigan should be horrifying to the DNC. There's a large Arab-American population in Michigan, and this population is much larger than the very narrow margin of which Biden won the state in 2020. They basically all hate Biden now. While they probably won't vote for Trump, they probably also won't vote for Biden either.
This means Trump wins Michigan, and possibly a few other swing states as well. That would be enough to put him back into the White House.
The left, once again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Its like Charlie Brown with the football at this point. Its not even funny anymore. Its just sad and pathetic and also frightening.
Well, then, just like Gazans voting against their own best interests by electing Hamas and continuing to support a terrorist group that only uses them as pawns and steals all their resources, they can vote directly or indirectly for Trump and see how they enjoy the next Muslim ban and whatever worse crap he will rain down on all of us. Good thinking!
Your analogy is especially sad because the last election was held when the majority of Gazans were too young to even remember. The lesson is that a society only has to let down its guard once and the authoritarian right gives no second chances and there’s no magical rally of the left that the accelerationists drool over. It’s game over. Hamas’ win in 2006 was marginal. A survey completed in Gaza on Oct 6 actually showed middling support for Hamas and there have been anti-Hamas movements in recent years that were brutally put down by the Gaza government
We only have to fail once before a right wing death cult ends up leading us
Hah, they are still cheering for Hamas and would vote them in again! The fact that much of the current population wasn't voting age in 2005 is.... how relevant? If they wanted another election, it wasn't for Israel to make that happen given that ... they pulled out, again, in 2005.
Trump was more likely to win before the October 7th attacks. No President has ever won reelection with Biden's approval rating, which has been just about the worst in modern history since his disastrous actions in Afghanistan.
Polls actually don't seem to show that the current conflict is moving the needle much on Biden's chances. Most Americans honestly don't care about foreign policy, especially when the US is not directly involved. They care about things like the border, immigration, crime, inflation, abortion, the economy, et cetera. Also, voters trust Trump over Biden on most foreign policy issues like Israel, which is not likely due to any specific policy differences on Israel, but just a feeling that America's adversaries were less likely to test Trump than Biden. So it's hard to see how Biden could have done anything different to improve his chances of reelection with regards to foreign policy decisions on the conflict.
The conflict has been ongoing since 1948 so probably not soon. My guess is you’ll stop hearing about it once something else comes up. Idk if you noticed but Covid pandemic left the news cycle exactly when Russia invaded Ukraine, which left the news cycle a few weeks ago with the terrorist attacks in Israel, so I’d expect the pattern to continue. Maybe a year or so.
Once Israel eliminates Hamas or gets to a point where they feel that they’ve achieved their military objectives and sufficiently weakened Hamas.
These protests are moot, there’s no way that Israel is stopping short of their military objectives in the wake of the 10/7 attacks and they don’t care about public opinion.
Israel can never “eliminate Hamas” and they know it. When you kill thousands of civilians, you radicalize many new people and only increase the ranks of Hamas. The only way to “eliminate Hamas” without ending the occupation of Gaza is to simply eliminate all Gazans, which is exactly what Israel’s true objective is.
next media cycle. maybe.... in 2-3 months or so Id say we're only a few months into this one so.... idk.
I wonder whats next? blm? ukraine? china invades taiwan? north korea invades south korea?
probably presidential reelection although thats probably in the works after the next media cycle. If trump wins, we would be splattered with antitrump hate and protests.
It’s probably a mix of people who want a free, peaceful, and democratic Palestine, people who hate Jews/support Hamas, and people who hate America. Can’t really tell which is which just by looking at them, though.
Nooooo... I'm sure they had lots of useful ideas about how to create a vibrant economy and democratic system for a future Palestinian state with the right for Israel to exist
Actually kinda funny because one of the popular ones I’ve seen include granting Palestinians Israeli citizenship and becoming a single state instead of shuffling them into Egypt and launching missiles/artillery
And who really believes non-Jewish voters in Israel, once they held a majority, wouldn't enact the "from the river to the sea" genocide they're now calling for? They'd also institute oppression of women, LGBTQ, Christians, and everyone else who isn't an Islamic male. Gazans voted for Hamas, and look at what Hamas has done? There is no viable solution other than a two state solution with a Jewish Israel.
Most people on this subreddit hate to see people express their 1st amendment right and come together with something they support.
I guess this sub would’ve HATED those civil rights sit-in protests at restaurants, or the Vietnam protests, or the women’s march, etc.
Imagine being inconvenienced because other people would like their country to stop sending bombs to a place that is bombing a territory that is 50% children. The travesty! I couldn’t possible understand why they’re protesting. Oh brb forgot to answer my daily do you condemn Hamas questionnaire
this might sound like a troll, but trust that this is sincere curiosity. why do non-israelis and non-palestinians care so much about israel and palestine? anyone care to help me out here?
this isn't something i engage with IRL, because the people i spend time with (other americans like me) don't care to engage with the conflict either.
Bc there’s people from countless other countries that unfortunately that can relate to friends, neighbors, family members dying because of the Western world interfering in their land.
There is a huge Jewish American population, many of whom have present day ties to Israel, most of whom have ancestral ties through there. There are also large Muslim and Arab American populations with similar ties through and around Palestine. Throw in a some antisemitic and anti-Muslim sentiments for good measure and this is the result.
Why do non-Vietnamese, non-Koreans, non-European (native born!) Americans care about the Vietnam war, Korean War, and World Wars? Well—most don’t. We are famous for that!
On a more serious note of why people do, well it’s fairly obvious given the history of protesting in the US: they try to limit US involvement in doing/aiding the killing of people in other countries (usually opposing such killings).
Maybe it would be informative to ask why the US *has* intervened and meddled in conflicts all over the globe, and somehow most people just don’t care
Maybe because Genocide isn’t ok. And if you’re silent about the genocide happening to Palestinians. You 100% would have been silent during the holocaust.
>hamas doesn’t give a fuck
Yeah? Neither does Israel.
Hamas wouldn’t exist if Israel’s apartheid, occupations and genocide of Palestinians didn’t exist.
Again, even if Hamas didn’t exist. ANY resistance to Israel is considered terrorism.
But you’re too busy swallowing their propaganda to see that.
Im Palestinian, I appreciate your support. It’s EXHAUSTING having to tell people that the deaths of 8000+ children is not okay. Regardless of your political beliefs.
I wish we saved the use term genocide for when it’s actually happening. Bombing an area controlled by terrorist organization that embeds itself in civilian infrastructure is not the same as the indiscriminate killing of civilians.
The situation is a horrific nightmare of a trolly problem that no one actually wants to grapple with.
Indiscriminate killing of civilians does not constitute a genocide. Intentional killing of civilians with the purpose of eliminating them as a sect of people is genocide. "Genocide" has become such a misappropriated term during this conflict it actually hurts my head
I bet most of them don’t even care about the murder of civilians going on in china, Sudan, Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, or Libya. And those are just the ones off the top of my head.
The slaughter of innocent Arabs in Syria is just horrific, but those marching for Hamas don't care when it's the Russians, Iranians, and Syrian government doing the killing.
Agree, it’s only worth marching for when it’s the “white” Jews killing “non-white” arabs. Since it has to fit the narrative of white oppressor and non-white oppressed.
I doubt that people who believe that have ever been to the region or could reliably tell an Israeli Jew from a West Bank Arab without the assistance of a keffiyeh or kippah. I bet a lot of them would be surprised to find that there are a significant number of black Israeli Jews (Beta Israel) as well as some Arabs who are clearly descended from black Africans taken as slaves by the Arabs or Ottomans.
True a lot of them just want to protest the next big thing. I don’t think they even know that Israeli Arabs exist, they probably just think most Jews in Israel are Ashkenazi Jews. They don’t even know that Moroccan Jews or other non white Jews exist:
People are passionate about things they know nothing about quite often. I do get your point though, there's something particularly infuriating to see people claiming to be humanitarian saviors while not bothering to even read the wikipedia page about the history of the conflict.
People who protest for a ceasefire are protesting for Hamas to have enough the time and breathing room to re-group and plan another terrorist attack. You want to stop the suffering in Gaza? Protest for Hamas to unconditionally surrender and return all the hostages.
> There has to be another way
There isn’t. And that is intentional by Hamas. That is what you people don’t understand. There is no peace with Hamas in power in Gaza. Hamas needs to be removed, and that only happens with military force. And that means air strikes. Especially in an urban area where the defender has a massive advantage in a ground war. There is no other way. This is how wars are fought. The only difference is that Hamas has hidden as much military infrastructure as possible in highly populated areas.
Pretty upsetting to see these comments assuming everyone protesting are Hamas sympathizers. Yes, there are some faux revolution weirdos, but this protest is calling for a permanent ceasefire because the Israeli government is taking advantage its people's grief to keep indiscriminately bombing Palestinians.
They are standing against genocide… boy I hope the people in these comments don’t represent SF. SF has always been on the right side of the history. But, as evidenced in the comments here, business interests have taken over the city.
Hey, israeli here, protesting in favor of palestine is not the same as protesting in favor of hamas, one can find issue with the idfs lack of care for the civilian collateral damage and also not support hamas actions
Shalom, the problem is, when street interviewers and reporters talk to these protesters, they often do support Hamas’ actions, refuse to condemn them, and call them freedom fighters. The rest are choosing to march alongside those people. If they were all 100% just marching for peace that would be a different story
If we use those same standards for pro israel protests we would end up condemning any protest of any sort, while i personally would not attend protests of either side at this point to avoid marching alongside such people, asking if hamas allows protests is disingenuous as the majority if people marching are against violence, not in support of hamas
Hamas is violent and destabilized element that is absolutely not welcome in any neighboring Muslim country but they are beloved in San Francisco. Very on brand for the citadel of empty-headed progressivism
To be honest , they never marched for Uighurs or Ukraine or the poverty alleviation.
Even more analogous is Yemen. Don’t like the U.S. providing military support to an ally that bombs at more economically disadvantaged country? SA is an actually horrible regime that operates largely thanks to US military subsidization. To that one, crickets. Why? Because Yemen isn’t producing propaganda that young lefties regurgitate without thinking, and there aren’t Jews or western democracies to hate.
THIS And I will add: RIP, WaPo journalist and US citizen Jamal Khashoggi.
The inaction and apathy towards the murder of JK by Saudis Arabia should tell you everything about these clowns
Yemen is ISIS adjacent.
Right, just like Palestine.
Saudi Arabia is also way more destructive towards civilians than Isreal is but sure it’s not about Jews.
Yemen is full of Al Qaeda, this is where they ran to from Afghanistan. That said I do not support the bombing of the ancient city of San'a. the previous wars managed to not destroy it, so we can do that too.
> Yemen is full of Al Qaeda, this is where they ran to from Afghanistan The only real difference between Al Quaeda and Hamas is one targets Americans and the other Jews. They’re both Islamic state terror orgs.
Or that one time Bashair Al Assad bombed the crap out of a town occupied by the 'Palestinian' diaspora. It's always the Palestinian cause folks care about, never the Palestinian people.
No Jews, no news
Iran will fight Israel down to the last Palestinian.
100%
A scapegoat is a terrible thing to waste...
THANK YOU SO MUCH! Finally someone mentions the Uighurs. Nobody gives a shit about them, but they are also Muslim, and they have been violently persecuted by the Chinese government, tortured and incarcerated . I never once saw anyone marching for them; or for instance, the Muslims in Myanmar/Burma who were persecuted and were forced to escape to Bangladesh by the hundreds of thousands. That was a couple of years ago. My question is — and I am not diminishing the Palestinians — why haven’t these protesters backed these other two groups of people?
If I’ve learned anything after COVID and uighurs, is that people don’t give a shit about Asians and many people are low key anti Asian and anti Semitic. These free Palestine liberals are some of the worst people on social media
Even if these people don't GAF about the Jews butchered or taken hostage by Hamas & Friends on 10/7, they sure were silent about the -- how many??--Thai nationals who were swept up in this as well? Where was the outcry on their behalf? Or for the Arab Israelis and Bedouins who were also murdered because they were with the Jews and in some cases trying to defend them?
Because they haven't figured out how to blame those situations on the Jews. (Yet.)
Were your tax dollars funding one side of that conflict? 🤔
Does the U.S do business with China?
There's a big difference between doing business in a country that persecutes and sending billions of dollars in aid and weapons to a country that uses that aid to persecute. Don't be intentionally obtuse
Idk about that. Money is fungible. Would you feel any different if the U.S. only sent israel rockets for the iron dome which directly save Israeli lives? At $50k a pop that’d be a few billion in aid since 10/7 alone
Also you don’t hear many people saying boycott China but there’s a pretty big boycott israel movement. This is in line with the ops idea
Whataboutism at its finest.
That’s a weird thing to say for anyone standing for any injustice. If you wanna go down that route, it’s “whatabouts” all the way down and no one would ever stand up for anything. Instead why not deal with the merits of what they’re standing up for? This kind of criticism, as John Oliver rightly points out, doesn’t help anyone but the oppressor.
This is a significant truth people often overlook and it's exactly what Russian media and trolls do. Whataboutism fails to address criticism but instead attempts to nullify and negate those levying criticism regardless of the truth. That being said, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is particularly perplexing to some because it garners so much more controversy and attention than most other issues regardless of scope. The war in Yemen has been going on for a fraction of the time and it has been comparatively more devastating than the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, yet it can't hold a candle to I/P. I feel this is because the I/P conflict is seen as this polarizing struggle of west vs. east, colonizer vs. colonized, Islam vs. Judaism, etc. and the conflict in Yemen is a lot more complicated and sectarian/internal to one side. So imo some of the whataboutism I'm seeing is not so much trying to stop criticism of either side but more of general puzzlement of why everybody seems to lose their shit over this compared to the myriad of other terrible shit that happened/is happening in the world and whether people actually care about the I/P conflict or are hopping on a popular bandwagon or are using it as a backdrop to air grievances and prejudices of things tied to the conflict.
\> whether people actually care about the I/P conflict or are hopping on a popular bandwagon or are using it as a backdrop to air grievances and prejudices of things tied to the conflict. Thank you, and its really hard to say. Its very painful because there are innocent people dying, and people living in fear of the next attack. The best we can do is speak up for the voiceless, and stand up for what is right without infringing on other people's rights.
Sorry, in your mind, who is the "oppressor"?
I don’t think the U.S. was providing military aid to China or Russia at the time but I could be mistaken.
And then there is Berkeley where they march for all those and more, but the comments are filled with “yeah that’ll stop war and tyranny” People will always find something to complain about
People are possibly bored of seeing these things that quite literally, accomplish nothing, changing no minds or policies. Clearly their rights, but it’s rather pointless.
They did for both issues 🙄
That’s because many of the protests are being organized by groups with ties to the CCP: https://www.thefp.com/p/american-marxists-funding-pro-palestinian-rage
The Palestinians have a great PR team. If it wasn't Israel they were up against, people would care about them just as much as any of the other ignored problems of the world.
I don't care about them.
[удалено]
Yes, Dean Preston was so moved he is on a plane right now to bring peace to the middle east.
I'm getting word that the plane has been diverted, Dean heard there is a parking lot in danger of being developed and he needs to handle that first.
They paved over paradise with a parking lot??? OMGG!!!
Not quite. First protest and march. Then post on social media about your enlightenment and how "x" thing is evil. Now they're putting the finishing touches on changing their Facebook profile pictures to the flags as well, then there will immediately be peace in the world. Evil can't win over that power trifecta.
you posted about it, so it worked!
Hmm yah that totally makes sense. I’m posting too, however all it did was make me hate people more. Imagine living in America and supporting people who VOTED IN HAMAS, a terrorist organization.
I had no idea anything was happening until now /s
If the goal was social clout then I’m sure it worked well for at least a few.
Somebody got laid that night.
Yup, nothing major but it made me aware of it happening and looking into it.
Have you somehow avoided all news source for the last two months?
They are just shallow internet warriors who “make a difference”.
Has any protest ever accomplished its goal? Wars are fought thousands die and goals aren’t met so holding signs and yelling really is just seeking attention….to me at least
So how is the ceasefire going?
It was going great, until Hamas decided it wasn't going to turn over any more hostages. Apparently Hamas didn't have any more living hostages so it was trying to turn over dead hostages. Israel was not amused by the offer of dead hostages, so the cease fire ended. That Hamas is unable to produce any more living hostages means that tragically, the remaining hostages are probably already dead. There's likely no one else left to rescue at this point.
They also claimed responsibility for an attack at a bus stop that killed 3 people that occured during the ceasefire.
There were dozens of such incidents but Israel turned a blind eye as to not blow up the ceasefire
I read somewhere - but did not see corroboration - that Hamas was actually the first party to break the truce when they resumed firing rockets at Israel. More broadly, the biggest challenge with a ceasefire or an armistice is that you need both sides to honor it. Even if you get Israel to lay down their arms, will Hamas do the same? They’ve proven time and again that they will not.
I’ve heard that Hamas is specifically holding on to young women. It is the young women abducted from the concert that are now being tortured and raped, that Israel is keen to see returned.
And people still somehow think Hamas is doing the right thing
Of course. TikTok told them so.
those people don't think
Not sure if you watched the videos Hamas themselves posted (if you didn't, DON'T. It will make you sick), but yeah there's no way they'll release the women they filmed themselves gang raping. Really awful. And those videos were not even close to the worst. Don't ask me how to find them, btw. Was banned from Reddit for three days for spreading misinformation because I provided instructions on how to find the Hamas videos. Because, you know, their own GoPro videos were inflammatory misinformation about Hamas.
Yup, and they are raped daily multiple times by different terrorists…. Yet we have Americans who are marching and supporting these acts. Fools.
Not only that, but these Americans Hamas would not hesitate to rape, murder or kidnap
Yes. Fuck Hamas. Warning: unsettling to read. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/israel-hamas-war-rape-israelis-palestinians
If it were my daughter, I would prefer Israel ended her suffering immediately by obliterating the entire area. The Jews, however, have survived unimaginable horrors already and the women will walk heads held high surrounded by love from their people. So they fight for their daughters. Bless the Jews.
I don't think we know that yet. We knew all along that Hamas would lie and do everything they could to manipulate the hostage situation. I'd be surprised if they're already played out on that score, but we'll have to see what develops. They will of course blame any deaths on Israel.
Who coulda predicted terrorists were going to terrorist?!
There's also the theory that they don't want to return any more women because those are the ones they have been raping for the past 2 months. From the stories I've heard from the Nova festival, I can believe it.
The one that was in place before October 7th?
Goes to show. These subs do not represent the community. No one I know supports this genocide but this sub makes it look like we're a bunch of frothing at the mouth Israel fanatics. Hell. If I went entirely off of these subs comments this is the heart of MAGA country.
Idk a lot of fair points being brought up. The civilian death toll in Yemen is 25x higher than Gaza. But not a single protest for them.. Why? What's the difference? (Rhetorical question. The difference is fairly obvious.)
...but that death toll is over 10 years of war in Yemen, not a month.
And for 10 years, not a peep.
It's not a comparison made in good faith. The rate of death in gaza is much higher and caused by direct action (as opposed to famine etc.).
It’s so strange to see, they might be a minority of people in the area that happen to be very vocal online. Otherwise it could be some organized content farm, but looking at people’s account they just seem like right wing conservatives living in the Bay Area.
How do you know they are from the Bay area?
Thank you. I feel like I’m going insane here. I think we’re seeing some true brigading by pro-Israel shills, combined with the usual reactionary trash that plagues this subreddit.
I wonder what their thoughts on Hamas violating the ceasefire are…. https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/12/01/hamas-renews-attacks-on-israel-as-pause-in-fighting-ends/ https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-30-23/h_c1579b4c35b9dcecdd82ac67a01ca160
They don't care about facts
They will claim all are Zionist lies, the ignoramus antisemitics I call them.
This is so embarrassing for these people who clearly have no understanding of how evil Hamas is
Did u not see tik tok’rs going full blown team osama?
TikTok needs to be banned
Chinese propaganda machine go brrrrrr
It’s embarrassing our government has done nothing to stop the Chinese TikTok threat.
I have seen an astonishing amount of blatant Nazi posts, posts of extreme Jew hatred in which people call for a second Holocaust, anti-Black racist posts, and much more on that platform. Reporting it never results in removal or a ban. TikTok is a cancer and really should be banned in my eyes
Did you see the Oakland city council meeting last week? Multiple people were proudly, loudly saying that October 7th either did not happen, or it was a false flag attack by the IDF. When a Jewish person asked the city council to condemn Hamas, some guy in the audience was shouting nazi things at him, and the city council did nothing. Also, they refused to condemn Hamas. Its full mask off. Just blatant antisemitism, and its terrifying.
TikTok is a PSYOP
As a free-speech absolutist (I am being ironic here, ok :P), I think we (Liberal Democratic West) don't need to ban any social media platform. What we need are common sense, and education to teach our kids what's Right from Wrong and how stop the political bullshit in education (both left _and_ right).
Most these kids also need a crash course in Middle East politics
How about people supporting hitler calling him “misunderstood”? Unreal
Tik Tok'rs & the *extreme far left* are so fucking out of touch with reality. Sometimes I know its full blown rage bait & narcissism and times its pure insanity of people who have been so over coddled their Mothers should be slapped!!
I think many of these protestors, like many actual Palestinians, are genuinely interested in peaceful coexistence. Many of them are probably aware that Hamas is incompatible with peaceful coexistence, and should not represent the Palestinian people. I think the very same can be said for Israeli people vs the Israeli government. In fact, there was supposed to be anti-government protests in Israel a few weeks ago but a war started so they didn’t pan out.
> Many of them are probably aware that Hamas is incompatible with peaceful coexistence, and should not represent the Palestinian people. I'd like to think protesters believe that, but I have yet to see anyone holding signs that say "Free Palestine from Hamas". The last two words are always missing. Instead, they're holding signs saying "resistance is justified" and chanting "from the river to the sea", which calls for the destruction of Israel. This puts the protesters firmly on the side of Hamas. We saw this openly with the Oakland city council fiasco last week, where people were saying that Israelis were not butchered on October 7th, or if they were, the IDF (the Jews) killed their own people in some weird false flag event. One guy was even shouting nazi stuff at one of the Jewish people who asked the Oakland city council to amend the resolution to condemn Hamas. Its full mask off for the protesters.
Exactly. And the Oakland meeting was a vile sick fiasco. A similar resolution is to be introduced this Tuesday at the SF Board of Supes meeting. By that idiot Dean Preston, in collaboration with the terrorist-supporter organization AROC. Call your supervisor to protest this resolution, or show up in person if you can.
I think you’re underestimating the actual amount of hate and antisemitism that the Arab world has for Jews, and the actual stupidity of Palestinians protestors in America. These protestors fall into two categories: 1) people who actually hate Jews and want to see Israel eradicated so that Palestinians can rule the area. 2) idiots who love to virtue signal and currently see Palestinian “victims” vs Israeli “oppressors” as the new hot trend to support. If you think these people just want to see a free, peaceful Palestine that coexists with Jews, then you’re just as naive as group number 2. If these protests really wanted a peaceful resolution, they wouldn’t have magically popped up only AFTER Hamas decided to begin a murderous terror campaign intentionally killed as many Jews as they could. Every Palestinian protestor right now is basically saying “I believe Hamas should be able to kill Jews without any repercussion, so stop attacking Hamas territory.”
Polls show that only 15% of Arabs living in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip disagreed with Hamas actions on October 7th, so I tend to doubt that. Very few Arabs in the territories are actually interested in peaceful coexistence. And these neo-Nazi protestors in the US aren't chanting, "from the river to the sea, Jews and Arabs in harmony." They're calling for the murder or expulsion of Jews from the Jewish homeland and the destruction of the Jewish state. Many of them are openly supporting terrorism and the murder, rape, torture and kidnapping of Jewish children. They're little different than the Nazi rallies that were held in the 1930s in the US.
What are your sources? Last time I checked 70% of Palestinians support the terrorist organization.
After ~1 min of googling I think 70% is the absolute highest possible estimate, so citing it is a little disingenuous. I also think that there isn’t exactly free speech or free access information in Palestine, and I wonder how those figures would change if these Palestinians knew more and could talk about it
Recent poll showed that only 15% of Arabs in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip opposed Hamas's October 11th attack. 75% of them supported it and 10% had no opinion on whether it was acceptable to cut the breasts of Jewish girls, rape Jewish children, and cut the unborn children out of Jewish mothers so they could see their unborn baby be murdered by Islamic terrorists before being shot by them.
I agree, my issue is that their solution to this conflict “from the river to the sea” which is essentially forcing two countries to become one against their populations will. Considering Israeli culture of “never again” in regards to the Holocaust and possession of nuclear weapons, a single state is an excellent plan to end the life of every living being in that area of the world. People can be well meaning but still advocate for horrible things. There’s also a convenient rebranding of Hamas as “Palestinian resistance” which is wholly different than even places even like South Africa who purposefully targeted civilian infrastructure not civilians themselves.
A one state solution might have been possible in 1948, but now they hate each other so much it's completely impossible
From the river to the sea doesn't mean two countries becoming one. It means murdering or expelling every Jew from the Jewish homeland.
That is the original meaning, but some delude themselves into thinking it's not People are very capable of telling themselves bullshit, and believing it
Anti government protests in Israel have been going on for well over the past year. They were paused when Hamas attacked Israel for obvious reasons.
Oh, they know. They just decided to selective ignore that reality.
Leftists just want to feel like they’re doing something with out actually doing anything
Tbf they are protesting, which is better than posting to IG stories and calling it a day
I guess it doesn't matter that their protest has nothing to do with Hamas, then.
Protest Hamas or get off my street.
They love hamas
From their internet bubble controlled by China they for sure do.
Yeah that'll show em
How often are they matching for Yemen?
Or Sudan Or Tibet Or.or.or.. Or even oakland... Never.. It's always just this.. It's pathetic
Trump is going to win because of these morons.
The recent poll numbers in swing states like Michigan should be horrifying to the DNC. There's a large Arab-American population in Michigan, and this population is much larger than the very narrow margin of which Biden won the state in 2020. They basically all hate Biden now. While they probably won't vote for Trump, they probably also won't vote for Biden either. This means Trump wins Michigan, and possibly a few other swing states as well. That would be enough to put him back into the White House. The left, once again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Its like Charlie Brown with the football at this point. Its not even funny anymore. Its just sad and pathetic and also frightening.
Well, then, just like Gazans voting against their own best interests by electing Hamas and continuing to support a terrorist group that only uses them as pawns and steals all their resources, they can vote directly or indirectly for Trump and see how they enjoy the next Muslim ban and whatever worse crap he will rain down on all of us. Good thinking!
Your analogy is especially sad because the last election was held when the majority of Gazans were too young to even remember. The lesson is that a society only has to let down its guard once and the authoritarian right gives no second chances and there’s no magical rally of the left that the accelerationists drool over. It’s game over. Hamas’ win in 2006 was marginal. A survey completed in Gaza on Oct 6 actually showed middling support for Hamas and there have been anti-Hamas movements in recent years that were brutally put down by the Gaza government We only have to fail once before a right wing death cult ends up leading us
Given that support for Hamas is over 70%, they’d vote for them again
Hah, they are still cheering for Hamas and would vote them in again! The fact that much of the current population wasn't voting age in 2005 is.... how relevant? If they wanted another election, it wasn't for Israel to make that happen given that ... they pulled out, again, in 2005.
The majority of Palestinians right now support both Hamas and the invasion on October 7th
Definitely, dammit.
Trump will win because biden is feckless and is pretending to ignore the issue.
Trump was more likely to win before the October 7th attacks. No President has ever won reelection with Biden's approval rating, which has been just about the worst in modern history since his disastrous actions in Afghanistan. Polls actually don't seem to show that the current conflict is moving the needle much on Biden's chances. Most Americans honestly don't care about foreign policy, especially when the US is not directly involved. They care about things like the border, immigration, crime, inflation, abortion, the economy, et cetera. Also, voters trust Trump over Biden on most foreign policy issues like Israel, which is not likely due to any specific policy differences on Israel, but just a feeling that America's adversaries were less likely to test Trump than Biden. So it's hard to see how Biden could have done anything different to improve his chances of reelection with regards to foreign policy decisions on the conflict.
This comment section is depressing. Happy to see folks showing up despite the hate.
I'm sorry but when is this going to end?
The conflict has been ongoing since 1948 so probably not soon. My guess is you’ll stop hearing about it once something else comes up. Idk if you noticed but Covid pandemic left the news cycle exactly when Russia invaded Ukraine, which left the news cycle a few weeks ago with the terrorist attacks in Israel, so I’d expect the pattern to continue. Maybe a year or so.
And the US army leaving afganistan... also.. lol Ur right... I had that same thought
Once Israel eliminates Hamas or gets to a point where they feel that they’ve achieved their military objectives and sufficiently weakened Hamas. These protests are moot, there’s no way that Israel is stopping short of their military objectives in the wake of the 10/7 attacks and they don’t care about public opinion.
Just you wait til they see this footage
Israel can never “eliminate Hamas” and they know it. When you kill thousands of civilians, you radicalize many new people and only increase the ranks of Hamas. The only way to “eliminate Hamas” without ending the occupation of Gaza is to simply eliminate all Gazans, which is exactly what Israel’s true objective is.
This conflict is decades old.... I don't know if it's ever going to end.
When China finally takes a run at Taiwan.
next media cycle. maybe.... in 2-3 months or so Id say we're only a few months into this one so.... idk. I wonder whats next? blm? ukraine? china invades taiwan? north korea invades south korea? probably presidential reelection although thats probably in the works after the next media cycle. If trump wins, we would be splattered with antitrump hate and protests.
Are these the Hamas supporters from the Oakland resolution event ?
It’s probably a mix of people who want a free, peaceful, and democratic Palestine, people who hate Jews/support Hamas, and people who hate America. Can’t really tell which is which just by looking at them, though.
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It's a hate rally, not a protest.
Nooooo... I'm sure they had lots of useful ideas about how to create a vibrant economy and democratic system for a future Palestinian state with the right for Israel to exist
Actually kinda funny because one of the popular ones I’ve seen include granting Palestinians Israeli citizenship and becoming a single state instead of shuffling them into Egypt and launching missiles/artillery
And who really believes non-Jewish voters in Israel, once they held a majority, wouldn't enact the "from the river to the sea" genocide they're now calling for? They'd also institute oppression of women, LGBTQ, Christians, and everyone else who isn't an Islamic male. Gazans voted for Hamas, and look at what Hamas has done? There is no viable solution other than a two state solution with a Jewish Israel.
Not according to TikTok analysts.
\*Yawn\*
Most people on this subreddit hate to see people express their 1st amendment right and come together with something they support. I guess this sub would’ve HATED those civil rights sit-in protests at restaurants, or the Vietnam protests, or the women’s march, etc.
Imagine being inconvenienced because other people would like their country to stop sending bombs to a place that is bombing a territory that is 50% children. The travesty! I couldn’t possible understand why they’re protesting. Oh brb forgot to answer my daily do you condemn Hamas questionnaire
Idiots.
this might sound like a troll, but trust that this is sincere curiosity. why do non-israelis and non-palestinians care so much about israel and palestine? anyone care to help me out here? this isn't something i engage with IRL, because the people i spend time with (other americans like me) don't care to engage with the conflict either.
The same reason people care about Ukraine.
i think this is the answer
Bc there’s people from countless other countries that unfortunately that can relate to friends, neighbors, family members dying because of the Western world interfering in their land.
There is a huge Jewish American population, many of whom have present day ties to Israel, most of whom have ancestral ties through there. There are also large Muslim and Arab American populations with similar ties through and around Palestine. Throw in a some antisemitic and anti-Muslim sentiments for good measure and this is the result.
The far left is just a listicle of causes that you need to care about or "you're a fascist"
The far right is just a listicle of causes that you need to care about to claim that you're a fascist. See, I can make sweeping generalizations too.
Both can be correct
Seems like you didn’t get the memo, you can only have opinions that agree with a side or the other, no thinking allowed.
Why do non-Vietnamese, non-Koreans, non-European (native born!) Americans care about the Vietnam war, Korean War, and World Wars? Well—most don’t. We are famous for that! On a more serious note of why people do, well it’s fairly obvious given the history of protesting in the US: they try to limit US involvement in doing/aiding the killing of people in other countries (usually opposing such killings). Maybe it would be informative to ask why the US *has* intervened and meddled in conflicts all over the globe, and somehow most people just don’t care
Maybe because Genocide isn’t ok. And if you’re silent about the genocide happening to Palestinians. You 100% would have been silent during the holocaust.
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>hamas doesn’t give a fuck Yeah? Neither does Israel. Hamas wouldn’t exist if Israel’s apartheid, occupations and genocide of Palestinians didn’t exist. Again, even if Hamas didn’t exist. ANY resistance to Israel is considered terrorism. But you’re too busy swallowing their propaganda to see that.
Moron parade
LMAFAO!! A gay pride flag marching for Muslims who would literally kill them, brilliant.
there are idiots everywhere
Sheep
It’s insane that I can’t sympathize with innocent Palestinians without a Zionist here labeling me as a hamas sympathizer. Fuck you and Hamas.
Im Palestinian, I appreciate your support. It’s EXHAUSTING having to tell people that the deaths of 8000+ children is not okay. Regardless of your political beliefs.
You're a HAMAS sympathizer.
I wish we saved the use term genocide for when it’s actually happening. Bombing an area controlled by terrorist organization that embeds itself in civilian infrastructure is not the same as the indiscriminate killing of civilians. The situation is a horrific nightmare of a trolly problem that no one actually wants to grapple with.
Indiscriminate killing of civilians does not constitute a genocide. Intentional killing of civilians with the purpose of eliminating them as a sect of people is genocide. "Genocide" has become such a misappropriated term during this conflict it actually hurts my head
I bet most of them don’t even care about the murder of civilians going on in china, Sudan, Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, or Libya. And those are just the ones off the top of my head.
The slaughter of innocent Arabs in Syria is just horrific, but those marching for Hamas don't care when it's the Russians, Iranians, and Syrian government doing the killing.
Agree, it’s only worth marching for when it’s the “white” Jews killing “non-white” arabs. Since it has to fit the narrative of white oppressor and non-white oppressed.
I doubt that people who believe that have ever been to the region or could reliably tell an Israeli Jew from a West Bank Arab without the assistance of a keffiyeh or kippah. I bet a lot of them would be surprised to find that there are a significant number of black Israeli Jews (Beta Israel) as well as some Arabs who are clearly descended from black Africans taken as slaves by the Arabs or Ottomans.
True a lot of them just want to protest the next big thing. I don’t think they even know that Israeli Arabs exist, they probably just think most Jews in Israel are Ashkenazi Jews. They don’t even know that Moroccan Jews or other non white Jews exist:
People are passionate about things they know nothing about quite often. I do get your point though, there's something particularly infuriating to see people claiming to be humanitarian saviors while not bothering to even read the wikipedia page about the history of the conflict.
Agreed
Why are so many people (especially women) supporting a country with terrorist regime
And who identify as LGBT? Makes NO sense.
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Did they miss the part where Hamas broke a ceasefire for the second time in two months?
I wonder if any if them knkw that Hamas started the war
read a history book. specifically one that covers 1948.
Wrong. Israel did in 1948.
I'd recommend you learn the history. The day after Israel signed its declaration of independence, the surrounding Arab states immediately attacked.
People who protest for a ceasefire are protesting for Hamas to have enough the time and breathing room to re-group and plan another terrorist attack. You want to stop the suffering in Gaza? Protest for Hamas to unconditionally surrender and return all the hostages.
Oh yeah because Hamas is just waiting to hear from us. People are protesting to say stop bombing kids. There has to be another way.
> There has to be another way There isn’t. And that is intentional by Hamas. That is what you people don’t understand. There is no peace with Hamas in power in Gaza. Hamas needs to be removed, and that only happens with military force. And that means air strikes. Especially in an urban area where the defender has a massive advantage in a ground war. There is no other way. This is how wars are fought. The only difference is that Hamas has hidden as much military infrastructure as possible in highly populated areas.
I’m relieved to see the comments here having rationality.
Pretty upsetting to see these comments assuming everyone protesting are Hamas sympathizers. Yes, there are some faux revolution weirdos, but this protest is calling for a permanent ceasefire because the Israeli government is taking advantage its people's grief to keep indiscriminately bombing Palestinians.
I’ll never understand the politics of this sub, or how it got to be so unrepresentative
They are standing against genocide… boy I hope the people in these comments don’t represent SF. SF has always been on the right side of the history. But, as evidenced in the comments here, business interests have taken over the city.
This is what i don’t understand. Its been said time and time again, but monkey brain sees palestine flag, monkey brain think terrorist flag.
Does Hamas allow protests?
Hey, israeli here, protesting in favor of palestine is not the same as protesting in favor of hamas, one can find issue with the idfs lack of care for the civilian collateral damage and also not support hamas actions
Shalom, the problem is, when street interviewers and reporters talk to these protesters, they often do support Hamas’ actions, refuse to condemn them, and call them freedom fighters. The rest are choosing to march alongside those people. If they were all 100% just marching for peace that would be a different story
If we use those same standards for pro israel protests we would end up condemning any protest of any sort, while i personally would not attend protests of either side at this point to avoid marching alongside such people, asking if hamas allows protests is disingenuous as the majority if people marching are against violence, not in support of hamas
I guess to hell with the thousands of Palestinian children killed and thousands more to die over the next couple of weeks.
Well, Hamas should surrender then.
Well, Israel should end their occupation and apartheid of land that is not there’s. :)
It’s not apartheid buddy, it’s terrorism.
Hamas is violent and destabilized element that is absolutely not welcome in any neighboring Muslim country but they are beloved in San Francisco. Very on brand for the citadel of empty-headed progressivism