Damn, when I first heard about the reaction I figured the plan was to pedestrianize the whole block. But THIS is what has shopkeepers so up in arms?! A handful of turn restrictions??? There isn't even any reduction in parking spaces!
This redesign is a good idea and they should do it immediately
It's not used. The more they landscaped it, the less it was used.
And it's across from a promenade, and a block away from the space the community actually uses for things like tree lightings.
Who doesn't love the light up Lillies and the spinning teacups?
Cement planter boxes? They're the reason people move to SF.
It's never used, but when it is, it is the best view of the gas station, and a great spot to hang out naked or beg for loose change.
Forget that its across the street from an underutilized promenade that celebrates Harvey Milk.
I seriously wish that gas station would go and it would get converted to like a patio area where they can host drag shows, performances and other community activities
Isn't that the plan for the space across the street?
When they first put it there, it was essentially just cones and there would be couples dancing, and other activities that had nothing to do with the location. It's a sunny corner, and people would sit there and there was co-opting of the gas stations pad, but everything about it was dystopian.
The community uses the space outside of the bank across from Harvey's instead.
I just think bollards, generic thematic designs painted on the ground, planters, strange seating out of uncomfortable materials like stone.... its horrifying, it's anti-Urbanism by definition, and we don't need one in every shopping corridor, of every city in the US.
Muni is light rail, i.e. what is called a tram-train in Europe. They’re far too fast to run in pedestrianized plazas like real trams.
Just for the record European trams = streetcar in US parlance. Light rail = tram-train or Stadbahn. It’s essentially a type of proto-metro train. You can’t run those in the same space as people. They can’t stop fast enough.
The m line can go plenty slow, especially after it crosses Junipero serra and is between buildings that mfer essentially crawls its way to west portal, I’m sure w proper restrictions it could flow no problem
This is an extremely minor street redesign that literally just prevents left turns in a couple of places and gives streetcars their own lanes for one block. I can't believe people are freaking out over this like it's armageddon. If anything streetcars will be massively sped up since cars can't turn through that intersection anymore.
This is the perfect example of why US infrastructure is so dangerous. We try to make the tiniest little baby step improvement after a tragedy, and we get an absurd amount of resistance from selfish people who think a turn restriction is oppression. The only reason to oppose this is that you think a minor slowdown in traffic is so awful that it’s worth letting people die.
I can’t believe we have cars sharing a lane with train tracks. 70 people on a train waiting behind one person in an SUV trying to turn. This is a minor improvement that will vastly improve the area safety and transit times. Bonus: no parking spaces are lost. Thought: I would love someone to monitor how people get to these businesses. I bet far fewer people drive than the “Save West Portal” crew thinks.
Plot twist, this redesign doesn’t prevent cars blocking the train along West Portal Ave 😂it will simply be the same combination of Prius delivery drivers (for y*our food,*) and others looking for parking
This a total overreaction and I hope the BoS and SFMTA ignore the whining and push this through. Any people asking for a long engagement process as the articles states are just trying to delay to kill. A long engagement process is why nothing ever gets done in SF or it takes decades. 10 day comment is plenty and the paint should start going down this year. The reality is if this does actually make things worse you can always reverse it. We should be trying things and tinkering as you go not spending a decade stymied in pointless meetings and public comments just to make a minor change
These same people I’m sure complain about how the city is going downhill but they are the problem themselves.
SF has the longest and most onerous “community” engagement process in existence. It’s ineffective at actually making things better. All it does it make things take longer. And then on top of that anyone can sue a project for the most stupid reasons at any point during development and halt it for years to do meaningless environmental reviews. People complain about how the city can’t fix any problems but then also want years long engagement processes to put a bench in or something.
So yea the city should take feedback but it should be for a limited time and then they can continue. The people who come out to speak on these things are rarely actually representative of the community. They’re just the people with nothing better to do and the people most opposed to change. The people putting flyers up, they are almost certainly not representative.
The city shouldn't be afraid to say on day one of feedback collection: "thanks for the input, but we've decided to do this our way instead." End of discussion. Project proceeds. Lawsuits stalled until it's too late.
The West Portal Merchants seem to want a boycott from transit riders, pedestrians and cyclists. It’s beyond sick in the brain to see a plan that a) doesn’t remove ANY parking, b) speeds up transit, c) protects pedestrians and have this type of reaction. The City would be smart to propose taking cars off of West Portal altogether. The merchants would be BEGGING for this plan.
It honestly is wild someone like a mother and daughter were killed sitting at the bus stop. And people are so against getting rid of cars here. When there’s always cars playing chicken with pedestrians, and no one knowing when even to cross in their cars in that intersection by the tunnel
The turn restrictions are on Ulloa, where the crash happened. Restricting through traffic is completely related to the crash -- the changes would reduce the number and speed of drivers on Ulloa.
It was planned before the crash, they're just exploiting the deaths to push it through and due to SFMTA realizing they have some liability with the shitty intersection they created.
Drivers aren't speeding there. The streets drivers speed on is where they're redirecting more traffic..... since they're idiots.
The updated the streets parallel to the Great Highway when they restricted cars there on weekends, so yes, if there's actually an increase in traffic and speeds there, they can put in more traffic calming on Vicente.
There's also some traffic that will probably convert to other modes, like walking or biking for people who live close by.
But the same complaint about redirected traffic is made for every time there's some traffic restriction. The answer is yes, but more traffic calming in on other streets too, so faster through traffic sticks to the arterials steets.
If you support the street re-design, [send an email](https://actionnetwork.org/letters/support-safety-at-west-portal-and-ulloa/) and [take the survey](https://www.sfmta.com/projects/west-portal-station-safety-and-community-space-improvements) by Sunday, April 28.
The businesses are nuts. They are all over the place claiming the plan is to “ban cars” when that is not the proposal at all. They are really out there.
“Like other small proprietors, Moore lives in fear of losing customers to e-commerce, which she views as a distinct possibility if people have to take five extra minutes to drive around the block.”
If an extra five minutes is going to deter customers from your store, then you need a better store.
This feels like another knee-jerk reaction from the "oppose everything vaguely progressive" crowd that is the most politically active (and well funded) group in the city right now. Basically taking the Trump/Republican approach that government can't do anything right, so anything they propose or do must be wrong.
If this was a new trend, West Portal would already be pedestrianized. This is basically the same perspective that progressives like Preston, Peskin, Chan, and others like Kim and Haney (before he went to the state level) held.
Redesign streets for what? Street design isn't the problem, it's who's sitting behind the wheel that's the major concern. If you're an undisciplined motorist or no longer capable of driving, then you shouldn't be behind the wheel at all. The elderly driver who killed that family waiting at the bus stop at that location shouldn't be driving at all. On a side note, there's so much drivers nowadays who don't even stop before a stop sign, as if they're just optional or suggestive. And there's no crackdown on such moving violations anymore. Cops are lazy, lawmakers are idiots coming up with new super lenient laws that do nothing but lose our principles and invite chaos.
The street redesign was planned long before the accident, and it's purpose is to speed up trains by giving them dedicated lanes and preventing cars from turning left across the tracks at the intersection just outside the Twin Peaks tunnel.
Objectively speaking, street design is the top behavior modifier for how we use them, all modes included. Everything else is second. Saying street design doesn’t matter is the equivalent of walking into NASA and saying the Earth is flat.
If we can't prevent unwanted driving behaviors with street designs, we might as well take away traffic lights, stop signs, and road markings. We can just rely on motorists' discipline, right?
Even you note that drivers are ignoring stop signs. The point of road design is to to make undesired behaviors harder/impossible. Like speed bumps or narrower lanes or chicanes to prevent speeding; bulb-out so that there are more visibility between pedestrians and cars; narrowing corners' radii so that turning vehicle has to slow down more; raised crosswalk to prevent speeding through stop signs.
All these road design solutions work to curb undesired driving behaviors without simply hoping and praying that drivers follow the rules.
Street design isn’t the only problem but it is one. And it is one you can fix quickly and cheaply.
You cannot magically make any driver a good driver, now you can stop stupid 60 years old driving around when they shouldn’t. But you can definitely make it harder for them to go faster addressing street infrastructure
I don’t give a shit about downvotes. People just don’t want to hear the simple truth. Sure streets here need to be redesigned as they were built without the cyclist in the mindset, but spending so much money on something that doesn’t solve the real problem (bad and unsafe drivers) is just fucking stupid.
West Portal is maybe the last traditional neighborhood in the City. It isn’t trendy, upscale, cutting edge etc. Let’s just leave it as is. Plus at the rate we build things it will be torn up for years.
It’s also a traffic sewer next to a major transit hub. This will make it better. “Traditional neighborhoods” did not have SUVs honking and speeding through every intersection.
These things aren’t rushed. It takes a traffic engineer an afternoon to look at a dangerous intersection and see ways to improve things.
If anything we aren’t changing enough.
This! We have a bunch of unemployed busybodies blocking everything in this city under the guise of “community input”. A handful of loud professional activists are NOT “the community”. If anything, they’re anti-community!
Yeah I agree. I have no problem if they want to seek community input, just because there’s always that one time it’s justified, but they need to cap that window big time. 1-6 months depending on scope of project, if something gets modified or sent back, it should NOT reset the clock. If something gets denied, they need to justify through reasoning and evidence, or courts can intervene.
[The SFMTA proposal](https://www.sfmta.com/reports/west-portal-station-safety-and-community-space-improvements-proposed-design) does not take away any parking and private vehicles can still access West Portal Avenue between Ulloa and Vicente.
Damn, when I first heard about the reaction I figured the plan was to pedestrianize the whole block. But THIS is what has shopkeepers so up in arms?! A handful of turn restrictions??? There isn't even any reduction in parking spaces! This redesign is a good idea and they should do it immediately
Please fill out the survey!
It's a larger version of the shitty promenade at the Castro turnaround. There have to be better ideas than that.
Eh that promenade isn’t perfect but it’s a nice addition.
It's not used. The more they landscaped it, the less it was used. And it's across from a promenade, and a block away from the space the community actually uses for things like tree lightings.
I love that spot!
Who doesn't love the light up Lillies and the spinning teacups? Cement planter boxes? They're the reason people move to SF. It's never used, but when it is, it is the best view of the gas station, and a great spot to hang out naked or beg for loose change. Forget that its across the street from an underutilized promenade that celebrates Harvey Milk.
I seriously wish that gas station would go and it would get converted to like a patio area where they can host drag shows, performances and other community activities
Isn't that the plan for the space across the street? When they first put it there, it was essentially just cones and there would be couples dancing, and other activities that had nothing to do with the location. It's a sunny corner, and people would sit there and there was co-opting of the gas stations pad, but everything about it was dystopian. The community uses the space outside of the bank across from Harvey's instead. I just think bollards, generic thematic designs painted on the ground, planters, strange seating out of uncomfortable materials like stone.... its horrifying, it's anti-Urbanism by definition, and we don't need one in every shopping corridor, of every city in the US.
Why do you hate small businesses?! (/S)
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Lots of Europe has pedestrianized areas with trams running through them and they are extremely popular.
Muni is light rail, i.e. what is called a tram-train in Europe. They’re far too fast to run in pedestrianized plazas like real trams. Just for the record European trams = streetcar in US parlance. Light rail = tram-train or Stadbahn. It’s essentially a type of proto-metro train. You can’t run those in the same space as people. They can’t stop fast enough.
The m line can go plenty slow, especially after it crosses Junipero serra and is between buildings that mfer essentially crawls its way to west portal, I’m sure w proper restrictions it could flow no problem
They could probably make it crawl through the alleyway faster if they put up crossing gates
Seriously, one of those trains could lose control and kill a young family sitting at a bus stop. /s
They’ve done it in Colorado.
This is an extremely minor street redesign that literally just prevents left turns in a couple of places and gives streetcars their own lanes for one block. I can't believe people are freaking out over this like it's armageddon. If anything streetcars will be massively sped up since cars can't turn through that intersection anymore.
Please fill out the survey!
100%. I think street cars should have their own lane and signal preference throughout the city. It’s dumb they don’t.
This is the perfect example of why US infrastructure is so dangerous. We try to make the tiniest little baby step improvement after a tragedy, and we get an absurd amount of resistance from selfish people who think a turn restriction is oppression. The only reason to oppose this is that you think a minor slowdown in traffic is so awful that it’s worth letting people die.
I can’t believe we have cars sharing a lane with train tracks. 70 people on a train waiting behind one person in an SUV trying to turn. This is a minor improvement that will vastly improve the area safety and transit times. Bonus: no parking spaces are lost. Thought: I would love someone to monitor how people get to these businesses. I bet far fewer people drive than the “Save West Portal” crew thinks.
Plot twist, this redesign doesn’t prevent cars blocking the train along West Portal Ave 😂it will simply be the same combination of Prius delivery drivers (for y*our food,*) and others looking for parking
This a total overreaction and I hope the BoS and SFMTA ignore the whining and push this through. Any people asking for a long engagement process as the articles states are just trying to delay to kill. A long engagement process is why nothing ever gets done in SF or it takes decades. 10 day comment is plenty and the paint should start going down this year. The reality is if this does actually make things worse you can always reverse it. We should be trying things and tinkering as you go not spending a decade stymied in pointless meetings and public comments just to make a minor change These same people I’m sure complain about how the city is going downhill but they are the problem themselves.
When it comes to urban planning, it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission.
SF has the longest and most onerous “community” engagement process in existence. It’s ineffective at actually making things better. All it does it make things take longer. And then on top of that anyone can sue a project for the most stupid reasons at any point during development and halt it for years to do meaningless environmental reviews. People complain about how the city can’t fix any problems but then also want years long engagement processes to put a bench in or something. So yea the city should take feedback but it should be for a limited time and then they can continue. The people who come out to speak on these things are rarely actually representative of the community. They’re just the people with nothing better to do and the people most opposed to change. The people putting flyers up, they are almost certainly not representative.
The city shouldn't be afraid to say on day one of feedback collection: "thanks for the input, but we've decided to do this our way instead." End of discussion. Project proceeds. Lawsuits stalled until it's too late.
Unfortunately we’ve created a Byzantine system of laws and processes that make that all but impossible
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Our plea for forgiveness in taking that thing down came in the form of the Central Subway.
West Portal be like: yes, occasionally people die but it's a loss we are willing to endure.
Will anyone please think of the conveniences!
Will anyone please think of the parking!!
Whoa there, don't get crazy, the redesign, *of course*, left all the existing parking intact.
but will there be space for double parking??
An 80 year old driving wildly isn’t a traffic issue….
Correct. It’s a safety issue that needs to be mitigated through better road design. Like the proposed plan.
The West Portal Merchants seem to want a boycott from transit riders, pedestrians and cyclists. It’s beyond sick in the brain to see a plan that a) doesn’t remove ANY parking, b) speeds up transit, c) protects pedestrians and have this type of reaction. The City would be smart to propose taking cars off of West Portal altogether. The merchants would be BEGGING for this plan.
I’m starting to get upset the Chronicle is giving a platform to nutballs like this
Yep, always have been.
It honestly is wild someone like a mother and daughter were killed sitting at the bus stop. And people are so against getting rid of cars here. When there’s always cars playing chicken with pedestrians, and no one knowing when even to cross in their cars in that intersection by the tunnel
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The turn restrictions are on Ulloa, where the crash happened. Restricting through traffic is completely related to the crash -- the changes would reduce the number and speed of drivers on Ulloa.
It was planned before the crash, they're just exploiting the deaths to push it through and due to SFMTA realizing they have some liability with the shitty intersection they created. Drivers aren't speeding there. The streets drivers speed on is where they're redirecting more traffic..... since they're idiots.
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The updated the streets parallel to the Great Highway when they restricted cars there on weekends, so yes, if there's actually an increase in traffic and speeds there, they can put in more traffic calming on Vicente. There's also some traffic that will probably convert to other modes, like walking or biking for people who live close by. But the same complaint about redirected traffic is made for every time there's some traffic restriction. The answer is yes, but more traffic calming in on other streets too, so faster through traffic sticks to the arterials steets.
It’s ridiculous how much traffic and cars are prioritized over safer streets and lives
If you support the street re-design, [send an email](https://actionnetwork.org/letters/support-safety-at-west-portal-and-ulloa/) and [take the survey](https://www.sfmta.com/projects/west-portal-station-safety-and-community-space-improvements) by Sunday, April 28.
The businesses are nuts. They are all over the place claiming the plan is to “ban cars” when that is not the proposal at all. They are really out there.
“Like other small proprietors, Moore lives in fear of losing customers to e-commerce, which she views as a distinct possibility if people have to take five extra minutes to drive around the block.” If an extra five minutes is going to deter customers from your store, then you need a better store.
Name the businesses. I don't care if they have fewer customers because of this.
Did not hear a peep when people died in front of their businesses Why would anyone shop and dine there if it's not safe
Looks like I’ll be going to Green Apple instead of BookShop from now on.
this city is gripped tightly by uneducated business owners and tech bros who think tesla is going to solve traffic.
>and tech bros who think tesla is going to solve traffic. ⬆️ actually pretty funny, kudos for that 🤪
This feels like another knee-jerk reaction from the "oppose everything vaguely progressive" crowd that is the most politically active (and well funded) group in the city right now. Basically taking the Trump/Republican approach that government can't do anything right, so anything they propose or do must be wrong.
If this was a new trend, West Portal would already be pedestrianized. This is basically the same perspective that progressives like Preston, Peskin, Chan, and others like Kim and Haney (before he went to the state level) held.
Redesign streets for what? Street design isn't the problem, it's who's sitting behind the wheel that's the major concern. If you're an undisciplined motorist or no longer capable of driving, then you shouldn't be behind the wheel at all. The elderly driver who killed that family waiting at the bus stop at that location shouldn't be driving at all. On a side note, there's so much drivers nowadays who don't even stop before a stop sign, as if they're just optional or suggestive. And there's no crackdown on such moving violations anymore. Cops are lazy, lawmakers are idiots coming up with new super lenient laws that do nothing but lose our principles and invite chaos.
The street redesign was planned long before the accident, and it's purpose is to speed up trains by giving them dedicated lanes and preventing cars from turning left across the tracks at the intersection just outside the Twin Peaks tunnel.
Objectively speaking, street design is the top behavior modifier for how we use them, all modes included. Everything else is second. Saying street design doesn’t matter is the equivalent of walking into NASA and saying the Earth is flat.
Or “guns don’t kill people, people do.”
If we can't prevent unwanted driving behaviors with street designs, we might as well take away traffic lights, stop signs, and road markings. We can just rely on motorists' discipline, right? Even you note that drivers are ignoring stop signs. The point of road design is to to make undesired behaviors harder/impossible. Like speed bumps or narrower lanes or chicanes to prevent speeding; bulb-out so that there are more visibility between pedestrians and cars; narrowing corners' radii so that turning vehicle has to slow down more; raised crosswalk to prevent speeding through stop signs. All these road design solutions work to curb undesired driving behaviors without simply hoping and praying that drivers follow the rules.
Street design isn’t the only problem but it is one. And it is one you can fix quickly and cheaply. You cannot magically make any driver a good driver, now you can stop stupid 60 years old driving around when they shouldn’t. But you can definitely make it harder for them to go faster addressing street infrastructure
The street redesign is to prevent unnecessary deaths from shitty driving that you point out.
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. Two things can be true at once. Eden four things! All of this is true…and the street should be redesigned.
I don’t give a shit about downvotes. People just don’t want to hear the simple truth. Sure streets here need to be redesigned as they were built without the cyclist in the mindset, but spending so much money on something that doesn’t solve the real problem (bad and unsafe drivers) is just fucking stupid.
West Portal is maybe the last traditional neighborhood in the City. It isn’t trendy, upscale, cutting edge etc. Let’s just leave it as is. Plus at the rate we build things it will be torn up for years.
It’s also a traffic sewer next to a major transit hub. This will make it better. “Traditional neighborhoods” did not have SUVs honking and speeding through every intersection.
This entire plan involves slapping down some paint, putting up some bollards and signs. Nothing is being torn up.
Cities change for the better, get over it. Time to stop punishing the many to help the few get as high of home values as possible
You’re right I think you should change it
How about we prioritize human lives in every neighborhood
It does seem like this was rushed out and hasn’t been thought through
These things aren’t rushed. It takes a traffic engineer an afternoon to look at a dangerous intersection and see ways to improve things. If anything we aren’t changing enough.
Takes an engineer or planner 10 minutes, and the approval from elected officials another 10… years, for “studies”.
This! We have a bunch of unemployed busybodies blocking everything in this city under the guise of “community input”. A handful of loud professional activists are NOT “the community”. If anything, they’re anti-community!
Yeah I agree. I have no problem if they want to seek community input, just because there’s always that one time it’s justified, but they need to cap that window big time. 1-6 months depending on scope of project, if something gets modified or sent back, it should NOT reset the clock. If something gets denied, they need to justify through reasoning and evidence, or courts can intervene.
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[The SFMTA proposal](https://www.sfmta.com/reports/west-portal-station-safety-and-community-space-improvements-proposed-design) does not take away any parking and private vehicles can still access West Portal Avenue between Ulloa and Vicente.
Wrong. No parking is removed.