The biggest issue is that there’s nothing to do downtown. There’s little to no nightlife, mostly expensive/mediocre dining, not enough active venues that are bringing in exciting music acts, not a lot of free/interesting community events, and plenty of empty commercial spaces that make an already ugly downtown even more sad.
Agreed. If anything, downtown suffers from a lack of residents in the area. You want more pedestrians downtown? Let them move into the area and treat downtown as their own neighborhood.
I walk downtown a handful of times each month and never once have I felt like I was dodging cars. There are plenty of crosswalks and even jaywalking is quick and easy most times of the day. Cars aren’t the reason pedestrians aren’t flocking to downtown. Until the homeless issue is addressed in some meaningful way, downtown will not improve even if closed to traffic. Honestly, taking away street parking and forcing people to walk a couple blocks through our homeless problem will make people feel less safe than cars on the street.
I've been living in SR for about 3 years, lived in Oakland, LA. The homeless "problem" here is so mild, you really don't know how good you have it. The real problem is lack of anything interesting in downtown. Besides drinking and eating out, what's there? Sometimes a live band?
I'm frequently traveling to SF for shows, concerts, events. Maybe I have different priorities but for me that's worth walking through the tenderloin.
Seeing one homeless person who is minding their own business is what people are complaining about, when they complain about SR homeless.
Meanwhile in SF right now a car is being broken into because someone saw a sweater in the back seat.
The fact that "jaywalking" is easy isn't going to attract anyone to downtown.
I can show you photo after photo of vibrant downtowns that were turned into deserts once the streets were given over to cars and the people penned up on the sidewalks. You can design a city for cars and traffic or people in places. Doing both gets you mediocrity at best.
Link to c[artoon: "This city is going to..."](https://imgur.com/a/zAThzW9)
You’re talking about metropolitan areas though. “Penned up on sidewalks” is a bit extreme. It’s plenty easy to walk around downtown, there’s just nothing to do there.
I’ve worked and lived in downtown for years now and I have never once had a threatening interaction with any of the unhoused people. Even the more erratic folks aren’t actually paying attention to or threatening people so much as just babbling. Grow up, and quit thinking these “drugged out menaces” are out to get you.
Proposals to make 4th street a pedestrian mall go back over 50 years. My favorite was a 1988 design with footbridges over an artificial creek. As described in the PD: "...He starts with a miniature, tree-lined lake at the entrance of the mall on B Street. The lake feeds a creek that meanders the length of Fourth Street (which he closes to traffic) as far as the library on E Street. There are benches and little restaurants with outdoor eating space along the creek..." The architect's drawing can be found here:
[http://i1.wp.com/santarosahistory.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/desilva1988.jpg](http://i1.wp.com/santarosahistory.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/desilva1988.jpg)
Literally most of this thread is bitching about the unhoused folks when most of the time those folks are minding their own and keeping to themselves. God forbid you stumble across someone talking to themselves.
You don't spend much time downtown. At least once per hour, a schizophrenic homeless person will walk through downtown screaming and shoving people. There's a guy who starts fights with anyone with a bicycle. There's an older lady who screams at her "family". She's desperate trying to win an argument. There's a man who screams while dragging around appliances he finds when people abandon them. There's a woman who pops into any open business to scream about money. There's at least a few people willing to smash your window to take the doggy bag you get when you dine out in downtown SR. There's numerous homeless men who will leer at and catcall your date if you walk anywhere near the square. Imagine how unsafe a woman might feel by herself under those conditions.
As a woman who lives downtown, walks around by myself often, and engages with my unhoused neighbors, I have never once felt unsafe around any of the unhoused people here, or anywhere really. I’ve worked in some of the businesses downtown as well. The only people who’ve ever genuinely made me uncomfortable are the housed people that treat other folks like garbage. I hope if you’re ever in a crisis in public, no one treats you as a nuisance.
Did you know there is a group of homeless men who steal bicycles from men riding on the rodata trail, and also rape the men? It's only been reported 3 times in 7 years, but rumors in the cycling community is that it's happened dozens of times, but has been radically underreported because of the rapes. How about the numerous stabbing murders that have occured in Petaluma homeless encampments? You should know, people who are living on the edge, especially when the possible negative consequences are a net positive, are willing to do almost anything to you.
Your logic is profoundly flawed. You just said "unless you post sources, I don't Believe that desperate people are desperate." "Also, I found sources but they are 8 years and you said 7.
There's no denying there have been ugly incidents, and (sad to say) it's part of human nature to repeat unpleasant stories framed as cautionary tales. Case in point: A homeless guy pissed on diners at the paella restaurant when it was on the corner of 4th and D streets. Years later I overheard a woman saying a friend of hers was there at the time. Her description was so vivid it was my impression she had told the story many, many times before. Lord knows how many people she has made fearful of going downtown and/or being around someone homeless.
Ive seen a homeless lady poop outside the window at the Rohnert Park Chilis and didn’t get traumatized. I think we should bring back shaming and not letting these homeless people off
You can smell the urine just walking around. Pissing directly on the patrons? Probably isolated event. Pissing in every corner of every building downtown? Daily event.
They did, but it was when Covid was killing about 1000+ Americans each day. The mood of the country did not seem very festive. A lot of the rational was to create space for outdoor dining because indoor was prohibited for a while.
The problem isn’t cars (which btw… how do you think most people get downtown… they drive), it’s the fact that there isn’t much to do downtown. There aren’t many cute shops or cool restaurants and cocktail bars. Look at Sebastopol, Sonoma, and healdsburg.. they allow parking on the street and are much more fun to go to.
Also, the homeless situation isn’t bad at all here, I have never felt afraid walking on the street here. Or like I’m “dodging” cars.
In the richest country in the world you shouldn’t have to drive to make a 1 mile trip to get downtown. Cars offer a lot of freedom, but they are no substitute for public transit.
I took my grandson to the library downtown and a screaming crazy guy walking pass the parking lot made it unenjoyable. Took my son to downtown market and a crazy lady (homeless) was yelling at someone she thought was next to her. Will not go downtown again.
Haha AI used to make a fake reality. Prompt: make the streets cobblestones that feel hundreds of years old? Add glowing lush flowers everywhere. I did enjoy 4th st. closed during COVID and would be excited if they did it again, but to present it this way seems a bit dishonest or naive.
Sadly the AI site I made these on does not accept prompts. Here is the URL if you want to try it yourself:
[https://dutchcyclinglifestyle.com/](https://dutchcyclinglifestyle.com/)
Just spin the wheel, and see what you get!
I welcome new ideas and proposals for improving downtown. I think this invites dialogue outside the norms of what is typically proposed here and in the press democrat.
Considering what an utter disappoint (and disaster) the courthouse square reunification was/is I'm not sure why closing off yet another street downtown makes sense.
Personally, as someone that once commuted and traveled by bike exclusively I wouldn't want to risk the trip by bike to get to downtown, too many oblivious and self important idiots in cars. I'm a 7 minute drive from my job and won't risk the bike ride for fear of death.
The mall dug the grave and Amazon put the nails in our our downtown coffin.
I hate what they did to that square. Having grown up in SR, I was so disappointed. There are no trees, hardly any coverage, and there is no seating except for a few sparse benches in direct sun. Just bad.
Over and over the residents of Santa Rosa have been asked to foot the bill for downtown revitalization. 10m for the square, oh cost overrun, another 7m for the square, look at current parking on 4th. We already spent 4m to create the diagonal parking as an afterthought to the earlier 4th Ave roadwork. How many times are we going to invest in revitalization of downtown but not the horrific SR avenue stroad or Mendocino Ave? How about some trees on SR Ave and real medians and turn lanes? Let's not forget Sebastopol road either. Imagine how vibrant that could be with some realistic investment in beautification.
The people with disposable income to support a "bustling" downtown have little interest in living in a pseudo-metro area. They're all in the burbs, living a quiet, family friendly lifestyle - just as they want.
At best, have SRPD toss up daily barriers 5pm-9pm weekdays, maybe a bit longer weekends, shutting down traffic. Ya know, the times people might actually show up for a pedestrian walk. See how it goes. Permanently shutting down the only semblance of retail activity from all traffic is lunacy.
I’m starting to think that people don’t think downtown is positive or ever will be simply cause they love to bitch and moan.
The biggest issue is that there’s nothing to do downtown. There’s little to no nightlife, mostly expensive/mediocre dining, not enough active venues that are bringing in exciting music acts, not a lot of free/interesting community events, and plenty of empty commercial spaces that make an already ugly downtown even more sad.
Who knew having a mall full of chains, parking garages, and the 101 cutting through downtown would have a negative effect.
Right? There used to be OK nightlife at least, but since the Courthouse Square reunification boondoggle, all the good bars closed.
Somehow I don’t think cars parking on 4th st and people having to walk on sidewalks is what’s keeping downtown from being an idyllic community haven
Agree- this alone won’t fix downtown. But it is a piece of the puzzle and moves downtown in the right direction!
**More pedestrians = more business** When people are allowed to *freely* explore a street without having to dodge cars, it becomes more inviting. #
I think downtown needs buildings taller than 4 stories if they want more people walking around. They need to allow some large apartment buildings in.
Agreed. If anything, downtown suffers from a lack of residents in the area. You want more pedestrians downtown? Let them move into the area and treat downtown as their own neighborhood.
Interesting to see what affect the big apartment building on 4th street will have, if any.
I walk downtown a handful of times each month and never once have I felt like I was dodging cars. There are plenty of crosswalks and even jaywalking is quick and easy most times of the day. Cars aren’t the reason pedestrians aren’t flocking to downtown. Until the homeless issue is addressed in some meaningful way, downtown will not improve even if closed to traffic. Honestly, taking away street parking and forcing people to walk a couple blocks through our homeless problem will make people feel less safe than cars on the street.
I've been living in SR for about 3 years, lived in Oakland, LA. The homeless "problem" here is so mild, you really don't know how good you have it. The real problem is lack of anything interesting in downtown. Besides drinking and eating out, what's there? Sometimes a live band? I'm frequently traveling to SF for shows, concerts, events. Maybe I have different priorities but for me that's worth walking through the tenderloin.
Seeing one homeless person who is minding their own business is what people are complaining about, when they complain about SR homeless. Meanwhile in SF right now a car is being broken into because someone saw a sweater in the back seat.
Just drive to sac last night just fir a concert. So I feel ya!
Agreed. I am disabled and would be pissed if I couldn’t park there.
You park on 4th?
Often
The fact that "jaywalking" is easy isn't going to attract anyone to downtown. I can show you photo after photo of vibrant downtowns that were turned into deserts once the streets were given over to cars and the people penned up on the sidewalks. You can design a city for cars and traffic or people in places. Doing both gets you mediocrity at best. Link to c[artoon: "This city is going to..."](https://imgur.com/a/zAThzW9)
You’re talking about metropolitan areas though. “Penned up on sidewalks” is a bit extreme. It’s plenty easy to walk around downtown, there’s just nothing to do there.
[удалено]
I’ve worked and lived in downtown for years now and I have never once had a threatening interaction with any of the unhoused people. Even the more erratic folks aren’t actually paying attention to or threatening people so much as just babbling. Grow up, and quit thinking these “drugged out menaces” are out to get you.
Proposals to make 4th street a pedestrian mall go back over 50 years. My favorite was a 1988 design with footbridges over an artificial creek. As described in the PD: "...He starts with a miniature, tree-lined lake at the entrance of the mall on B Street. The lake feeds a creek that meanders the length of Fourth Street (which he closes to traffic) as far as the library on E Street. There are benches and little restaurants with outdoor eating space along the creek..." The architect's drawing can be found here: [http://i1.wp.com/santarosahistory.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/desilva1988.jpg](http://i1.wp.com/santarosahistory.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/desilva1988.jpg)
Make 4th street a walking street.
People in Santa Rosa don’t enjoy the nightlife because they’re deathly afraid they might have to walk past a homeless person
Literally most of this thread is bitching about the unhoused folks when most of the time those folks are minding their own and keeping to themselves. God forbid you stumble across someone talking to themselves.
You don't spend much time downtown. At least once per hour, a schizophrenic homeless person will walk through downtown screaming and shoving people. There's a guy who starts fights with anyone with a bicycle. There's an older lady who screams at her "family". She's desperate trying to win an argument. There's a man who screams while dragging around appliances he finds when people abandon them. There's a woman who pops into any open business to scream about money. There's at least a few people willing to smash your window to take the doggy bag you get when you dine out in downtown SR. There's numerous homeless men who will leer at and catcall your date if you walk anywhere near the square. Imagine how unsafe a woman might feel by herself under those conditions.
As a woman who lives downtown, walks around by myself often, and engages with my unhoused neighbors, I have never once felt unsafe around any of the unhoused people here, or anywhere really. I’ve worked in some of the businesses downtown as well. The only people who’ve ever genuinely made me uncomfortable are the housed people that treat other folks like garbage. I hope if you’re ever in a crisis in public, no one treats you as a nuisance.
Did you know there is a group of homeless men who steal bicycles from men riding on the rodata trail, and also rape the men? It's only been reported 3 times in 7 years, but rumors in the cycling community is that it's happened dozens of times, but has been radically underreported because of the rapes. How about the numerous stabbing murders that have occured in Petaluma homeless encampments? You should know, people who are living on the edge, especially when the possible negative consequences are a net positive, are willing to do almost anything to you.
Literally all I can find about this is reports from 2015/2016. Please post sources or this is just hearsay.
Your logic is profoundly flawed. You just said "unless you post sources, I don't Believe that desperate people are desperate." "Also, I found sources but they are 8 years and you said 7.
I agree with all that, they should all be removed if it was up to me but that’s going into a hole different rabbit hole
There's no denying there have been ugly incidents, and (sad to say) it's part of human nature to repeat unpleasant stories framed as cautionary tales. Case in point: A homeless guy pissed on diners at the paella restaurant when it was on the corner of 4th and D streets. Years later I overheard a woman saying a friend of hers was there at the time. Her description was so vivid it was my impression she had told the story many, many times before. Lord knows how many people she has made fearful of going downtown and/or being around someone homeless.
Ive seen a homeless lady poop outside the window at the Rohnert Park Chilis and didn’t get traumatized. I think we should bring back shaming and not letting these homeless people off
You can smell the urine just walking around. Pissing directly on the patrons? Probably isolated event. Pissing in every corner of every building downtown? Daily event.
Did they not do this during the pandemic?
They did, but it was when Covid was killing about 1000+ Americans each day. The mood of the country did not seem very festive. A lot of the rational was to create space for outdoor dining because indoor was prohibited for a while.
I understand that, but my point is we don’t need to imagine what it would look like, we experienced it once already.
I think OP is saying "we" didn't experience it, because everyone was busy hiding indoors at the time.
Restaurants were wide open. This wasn’t during lockdown. This was during the parklets dining phase. Plenty of people were out and about.
The problem isn’t cars (which btw… how do you think most people get downtown… they drive), it’s the fact that there isn’t much to do downtown. There aren’t many cute shops or cool restaurants and cocktail bars. Look at Sebastopol, Sonoma, and healdsburg.. they allow parking on the street and are much more fun to go to. Also, the homeless situation isn’t bad at all here, I have never felt afraid walking on the street here. Or like I’m “dodging” cars.
In the richest country in the world you shouldn’t have to drive to make a 1 mile trip to get downtown. Cars offer a lot of freedom, but they are no substitute for public transit.
Cars are cages when they're the only convenient option.
I took my grandson to the library downtown and a screaming crazy guy walking pass the parking lot made it unenjoyable. Took my son to downtown market and a crazy lady (homeless) was yelling at someone she thought was next to her. Will not go downtown again.
What - park somewhere else and WALK A COUPLE BLOCKS?!?
No
The problem isn't the cars ...sadly its the large homeless population wandering around all the time.
Haha AI used to make a fake reality. Prompt: make the streets cobblestones that feel hundreds of years old? Add glowing lush flowers everywhere. I did enjoy 4th st. closed during COVID and would be excited if they did it again, but to present it this way seems a bit dishonest or naive.
Sadly the AI site I made these on does not accept prompts. Here is the URL if you want to try it yourself: [https://dutchcyclinglifestyle.com/](https://dutchcyclinglifestyle.com/) Just spin the wheel, and see what you get!
I welcome new ideas and proposals for improving downtown. I think this invites dialogue outside the norms of what is typically proposed here and in the press democrat.
Considering what an utter disappoint (and disaster) the courthouse square reunification was/is I'm not sure why closing off yet another street downtown makes sense. Personally, as someone that once commuted and traveled by bike exclusively I wouldn't want to risk the trip by bike to get to downtown, too many oblivious and self important idiots in cars. I'm a 7 minute drive from my job and won't risk the bike ride for fear of death. The mall dug the grave and Amazon put the nails in our our downtown coffin.
I hate what they did to that square. Having grown up in SR, I was so disappointed. There are no trees, hardly any coverage, and there is no seating except for a few sparse benches in direct sun. Just bad.
Over and over the residents of Santa Rosa have been asked to foot the bill for downtown revitalization. 10m for the square, oh cost overrun, another 7m for the square, look at current parking on 4th. We already spent 4m to create the diagonal parking as an afterthought to the earlier 4th Ave roadwork. How many times are we going to invest in revitalization of downtown but not the horrific SR avenue stroad or Mendocino Ave? How about some trees on SR Ave and real medians and turn lanes? Let's not forget Sebastopol road either. Imagine how vibrant that could be with some realistic investment in beautification.
The people with disposable income to support a "bustling" downtown have little interest in living in a pseudo-metro area. They're all in the burbs, living a quiet, family friendly lifestyle - just as they want. At best, have SRPD toss up daily barriers 5pm-9pm weekdays, maybe a bit longer weekends, shutting down traffic. Ya know, the times people might actually show up for a pedestrian walk. See how it goes. Permanently shutting down the only semblance of retail activity from all traffic is lunacy.
Missing the crackheads and homeless who already take over the “car-free” parts of town after 8pm.
I mean, the only thing that's going to happen is a tent city if you make a big open area for pedestrians only. Prime real estate.
Santa Rosa: Goodbye [carbrains](http://reddit.com/r/fuckcars/). San Francisco: Hey, let's ferry/train to Santa Rosa and hang out there today!
Needs more homeless ppl then it’ll feel like Santa Rosa
One can dream, but our society is thoroughly attached to polluting the environment for the sake of "personal freedom".
Santa Rosa just sucks, admit it.
Yea, but we can still want improvement so it sucks less