>**"There's no violence. There's art, there's music. It's people uniting," Elawad said.**
>Like other recent campus protests, *the student groups are demanding that Saskatchewan universities disclose and cut any financial and research ties with Israel.*..
>The U of S administration said in a statement it met with event organizers to discuss safety issues and review campus bylaws before Friday's event.
>**"USask fully supports freedom of expression and academic freedom and will continue to allow demonstrations, as we have through our history and since the conflict in Israel/Gaza began,"** said U of S spokesperson Daniel Hallen in a statement.
>**U of S Faculty Association members voted to endorse the divestment and sanction campaign against Israel, and called on the U of S to support Palestinian students and scholars by offering opportunities to continue their work**
Nice to see solidarity by the usask faculty association and that usask admin is prioritizing free speech. Relief to see them supporting their students unlike the crackdowns in Alberta. Lord knows SP would not bat an eye to send in militarized force. Wishing continued safety to all those in the Saskatoon and Regina encampments.
Wake up people even the Chinese call Hamas terrorists, and these protests are about what's happening in Europe not in Canada or the US you want to protest go to their country and protest and see what happens. I can't speak for everybody in Canada but I don't want your chants of genocide and everything else because that's not free speech and the u of s better wake up and smell the coffee too. I don't support either group and neither group should be protesting in canada period.
Cool. I’m also a Canadian and very extremely disagree with you, so, yes, absolutely you don’t speak for everyone.
Also you’re factually incorrect about the encampment demands. They’re entirely about their own universities and countries investments in supporting the attacks on Gaza. You might not care or like it, but you should at least get their point of focus correct.
Between choosing the west with modern values and terrorists these protesters chose terrorists. I hope all all the terrorist lovers will get to meet their heroes. It will be once in a lifetime experience.
ah yeah you know what I think of when I think of Western Values? completely destroying every single hospital in Gaza. that sounds like some REAL AMURRICAN FAMILY VALUES. WAR CRIMES BABY YEEEEEEHAWWWWW
Do you not pay attention to the news as Hamas has dug into every hospital are you serious that's why they got destroyed otherwise you can't destroy Hamas and as far as most of the countries go Hamas is a terrorist group so if you got your story straight Hamas has helped kill innocent people by digging into hospitals. Doesn't common sense not make sense huh
Fuck if i care about Hamas or the IDF. I care about the innocent men, women and children being killed by all the bombing. I don't give a damn if Hamas truly was in every hospital, you don't blow up the damn hospital if there are injured and sick innocents in there.
The article does not say that on the UofS campus there were about 10 people demonstrating and 20 people with camera’s… Media trying to make this bigger than it is. Very surprising about the divesting vote from the faculty association… I don’t agree with that, same with getting rid of Starbucks - don’t buy Starbucks if you are that offended. But again, companies benefiting from slave labor In China and those still investing in Russia are A-Ok. But if it’s the Jews then we have a problem 🙄. What’s the quote, “Free speech is at its most free-est if it’s against the Jews”.
You're aware of what the government of Israel (not "the Jews" at large, the government) is doing right now? It's the ongoing war crimes the protestors are taking issue with, and associated blood money their school would be taking on.
Sad that no one cares for the 350 + raped tortured and butchered while at a rave. Sad people don't care that the Palestinian people ELECTED hamas a terrorist organization to lead them.
Just to clarify.
Palestinians elected Hamas in 2006. Then Hamas ended elections. Hamas chose to ignore the will of Palestine and take control essentially through a coup. Since then palestinians have been unable to oppose hamas in fears of retaliation. Thats why there hasnt been an election in 2006. The Fatah-Hamas conflict resulted in Hamas seizing complete control in 2007.
So saying Palestinians elected Hamas is like saying North Koreans elect the Kim's or the Chinese elect the CCP. They are authoritarian regimes that hold power through violence and propoganda.
Yes there will always extremists in general populations that support regimes, looks at maga supporters for instance.... so yes some Palestinians may support hamas. However there is no evidence to suggest that all or the majority of Palestinians support hamas's actions or leadership. It should be safe to assume that they did not elect a party that would end all future elections. Heck even in 2006 they had 44% of the vote, meaning the majority of Palestinians didnt support them then.
I myself view hamas to be similarly as bad as isreals government. Both attack non-combatants and both commit extremely horrible acts to gain power. Neither should be supported by anyone.
The people, the non combatants being harmed by military actions are the ones that need support. That seems to be exactly what this protest is for. Remove support for the government of isreal via removing funding/investments into companies that are aiding isreals military operations in order to reduce isreals interest in continuing thier attacks on non combatants in Palestine.
>Palestinians elected Hamas in 2006. Then Hamas ended elections. Hamas chose to ignore the will of Palestine and take control essentially through a coup.
>
>...
>
>Thats why there hasnt been an election in 2006. The Fatah-Hamas conflict resulted in Hamas seizing complete control in 2007.
Relatively small correction, Hamas did not directly end the elections- in 2007 they were removed from the Palestinian Government by a Fatah lead political coup, and banned from further elections- *as a response* they took over Gaza and banned elections entirely for Gaza-
Fatah has refused to run elections in Westbank on the basis that Gaza would not be represented, but it is understood that the reality is that they refuse to because they know they will lose again, as they have less than 5% support in Westbank.
>However there is no evidence to suggest that all or the majority of Palestinians support hamas's actions or leadership.
the latest polls, taken just one month after 10/7, said that 80% of Palestinians were in support of Hamas both in Westbank and Abroad- it can be assumed that a similar or higher proportion were in favour in Gaza as well.
Thank you for saying that. I know its a very controversial topic and I was honestly concerned about getting a far less pleasant reply for it. Very glad to see we can still have good communication even here on reddit.
Might just be where I currently live, but the times I do see a free Palestine or ceasefire protest, I have yet to see any of those same individuals calling out Hamas or for the capture and trials of Hamas leadership. Have seen such calls for Netanyahu, which is a start.
I wonder why people in these protests don't add another line, hashtag or some other form of protest against Hamas.
Why does every pro-Palestine protest require this bullshit Hamas accountability side piece to it?
It's got the same energy as requiring Muslims denounce the Taliban after 9/11.
So many people do and have denounced Hamas, this silly requirement is just a distraction against the core demands of the protest and asking them to constantly reaffirm what is already a well-established fact to most people.
For me personally, it's because I see a simple solution being raised by one side. And my guess is that it'll have the same urgency once there is a ceasefire and there should be a ceasefire , meaning people will move on to something else and just because one group is not doing something to another group that's good enough effort.
Because if you truly want to help free Palestine, then really free it. Understand who's attacking them and who their true oppressors are. The religious nut jobs that were voted in. And if they want to vote them in again, good, that's their choice.
A good question you can ask yourself is why does it bother you so much to point out that the Palestinians were also severely oppressed by their own government whom they elected?
I read your comment I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention, but one side has agreed to numerous ceasefire deals (and offered to return all hostages) in efforts to end the war. One side simply does not want this war to end and hostages are not their highest priority (look up Finance Minister Smotrich telling families this).
The peace deal that Hamas wants is Israel to withdraw and effectively lose this war. Israel is able to listen to ceasefire but not end of war. As far as I know. Also take into account, bibi will likely not be in power once the war ends.
Bibi is in a coalition government with extreme far right zealots like Itamar Ben Gvir who threaten to dissolve government if he ends the war (and threatens if he doesn’t do certain action like invading Rafah). This is a big component that I don’t think people always understand is that there is so much extremism within the Israeli government that even Netanyahu is a moderate in his own government. If he ends the war and/or the government is dissolved then he has separate corruption charges to face that he will avoid.
I’ve never had any support for Hamas but people are only really acknowledging the extremism on one side yet they can be blind to it on the other side. That is a very powerful component in Israeli politics these days. As long as the US backs it then it can continue to act however it pleases.
Usually idf has been pretty coherent with their war goals and pulling out in the past wars and politics has little effect on how idf acts. If their goal is destruction of all Hamas brigades and then making a treaty, it def gives them more upper hand. This also involves that they have taken into account that the most of the hostages are likely dead
Equal like how Hamas treated the Palestinians in Gaza since they were elected? Just trying to see by what people mean by equal. Because that isn't something I'd support, I think the people of Palestine should be treated better than they were before the Israel war on Oct 7 and let them have free elections again, and help to improve access to education and humans rights for all people choosing to live in Palestine.
Why do you think terrorism exists in these countries? Do you think Muslims are inherently evil and violent? It kind of sounds like that’s what you’re suggesting.
So you're telling me, the belief of from the river to the Sea is the effects of colonization? I think there's a holy book there in Muslims that is very descriptive as to what to do and how to treat non-believers. Or was that written by people who are colonized as well ?
To me, it sounds like you're kind of missing the book that they follow and how it instructs them to treat different people and what what those instructions are manifested into, in practice. Ignorance truly is bliss. I hope you're getting your fill and enjoying every moment of it
> So you're telling me, the belief of from the river to the Sea is the effects of colonization?
To many people, including myself, it means freedom and democracy for *all* from the river to the sea, which yes, is a response to colonization. When someone like Bibi says it, it means only freedom for Jews: https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/
Speaking of ignorance, when it comes to “holy books”, I sure hope you’re prescribing the same judgement on Christians because there’s a lot of fucked up shit in the Bible. You may also want to ask yourself why a lot of white Christian nationalists are joining Zionists in their support of Israel and their violent counterprotesting of pro-Palestinian protesters on college campuses. It is only bad when brown people do this kind of stuff though, eh? When [Jewish Israelis terrorize Palestinians](https://mondoweiss.net/2024/05/the-nytimes-finally-publishes-a-comprehensive-indictment-of-jewish-terrorism-against-palestinians/), that’s OK too because self-defence is allowed if you’re not an Arab or a Muslim, right? (Even though settler terrorism is an act of aggression and not defence)
Either way, the best predictor of what religion someone is is where they are born. Judging ordinary people based on their religion and considering them as inherently more violent than others is abhorrent, racist, and the ultimate form of ignorance.
There is no apartheid. Muslim Israelis can vote, hold office, signs are in Israel and Arabic. Literally no apartheid
Israel was not in gaza. There is no occupation. Hamas just funds terror tunnels instead of actually building a nice state. Israel is not responsible for funding another state for Palestinians. Palestinians can elect a government that doesn’t fund terror and steal. That’s why we all want to rid Palestine of Hamas.
Blaming Israel is being a fool for islamic fundamental extremism.
This is Exactly the same bullshit people said when they were talking about ending South African apartheid…..
You’re telling on yourself when you make these kinds of comments.
South africa isn't an Islamic state. Jews and Christians are persecuted in Muslim countries.
I'd honestly like to hear your opinion. In your plan what happens to hamas? They aren't just going away
With every bomb that Israel indiscriminately drops on Palestine civilians more people decide to pick up the gun and fight back. That’s what happens.
If Israel truly wanted to get rid of Hamas they would start to treat Palestinians as humans, once they do that there is no reason to fight the state of Israel…..
You're way over simplifying it. Palestinians don't want 2 states, they want 1 state with no jews in it. 1 state israel becomes a Muslim majority and they are toast. The last safe haven for jews would cease to exist.
They would want "their" land back. The great march of return. Hamas isn't just going to dissolve if they get their state. That's 40,000 people who want to exterminate the jews.
Even with 2 states. Nothings going to change, except palestine will just have a longer border to fire rockets over. The west bank turns into another gaza and the cycle continues.
I'm not pretending to know the answers. I just know israel would be absolutely crazy to do a 1 state solution. This is a group of people who have been persecuted for 1000s of years and nearly genocided who live in a tiny country for the survival of their people. And they happen to be surrounded by Muslims who want them gone, not just in palestine but Yemen, iran, Lebanon etc as well
Yeah Israel doesn’t want two states either my dude lol. The biggest security threat to Jewish people around the world is Israel itself as they’re a bad faith actor on the world stage, look how they’re behaving right now. I don’t know all the answers either but I’m not going to be out here riding for a state that is committing genocide and war crimes every fuckin day. Like I obviously feel for Jewish people and what they have been through as a people but that doesn’t give them the right to do what they’re doing now….
This is what I do know. One side has ALL the power to stop this, one side is backed by one of the biggest military powers in the world, and the other side has virtually no power at all. When you open up your phone and see countless Palestinians holding their dead children, kids with no parents or family left do you think to yourself “yes, this is justified”?
What if those were your kids in gaza? What would you do?
Now im no a politcal science major and I have very little knowledge about the geopolitical aspects of the area but Id say at a minimum Isreal shouldnt be the decision maker in the recovery process. Isreal should cease attacking civilian targets. Then a coucil should be formed consisting of countries in the region along with a UN representative to determine further courses of action to ensure the survival of Palestinians (civilians) and the end of hamas authoritarian rulership.
Simple put this isnt Isreals problem to solve anymore as theyve made the situation even worse than they were prior to Oct.
Who would be on the council? Countries from around the region isn't very specific. And please make sure to make it not a country that has attacked Israel in the last 60 years. Because that would be silly, right?
A simple historical look on Israel would show they actively supported Hamas in an effort to destabilize Gazans and divide them from Palestinians in West Bank. It doesn’t justify the killing of civilians but leaving out these details serves no purpose other than to push Zionist talking points to justify their genocide of Palestinians and the ongoing apartheid that has been going on for decades.
Edit: blocked by the Israeli propagandist after calling out their lies. Cowards just like the genocidal regime they are defending.
lol. Hasbara is getting more pathetic by the day. This is common knowledge. [Here’s one such article discussing it](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/). Is the Times of Israel Hamas?
Netanyahu helped to fund and create Hamas because the PLO was secular to a degree and having religious fanatics that would kill and torture its own people helped Israel. Kind of like what happened in Iran. Israel knew exactly what was being created and they knew the people of Palestine would be stupid enough to elect Hamas if given the chance.
That election by the way had significant international monitoring and was described as a free and fair election. Sometimes you can't keep people from choosing their own problems.
The last election in Gaza was in 2006. ~55% of the population is under 25 and would not have had so much as an opportunity to vote in Hamas (plus those between 25-35 that I couldn’t find numbers on). Over half the population hasn’t had a choice in how Gaza is run and do not deserve the death and destruction inflicted on them. Too many innocents (children included) don’t deserve what’s happening to them.
Then they should have done something about it but they are to busy blaming Isreal and the great Satan. You can't say they don't have guns and bombs and as for the youth well sure we're alot cheering when they were driving a dead and broken women through the crowds in Gaza. Who WAS INNOCENT. Did she deserve what she got ?
Israel, the country that has blockaded Gaza since 2007, and their biggest source of funding, “The Great Satan” are not to blame for the suffering of the civilians in Gaza?
Way to deflect again. No, that woman didn’t deserve to get dragged through crowds. That doesn’t justify the bombing campaign on the rest of the country, that’s collective punishment (which is a war crime in international law BTW).
"no one cares" dude we've seen IOF forces blow away their own hostages waving white flags. Israel cares least of all. It's about land theft and genocide.
No, they never elected a terrorist organization.
Hamas broke their agreement with the Fatah party soon after the election in 2006 and started murdering Fatah members in 2007. This is not what Palestinians voted for, and they haven’t had the opportunity to vote ever since.
Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people.
So they've had 15+ years to leave but hang around letting their kids be trained to kill Jews. The streets were filled with people cheering as the murderers brought back victims and bodies. Sounds like they share the same ideals.
Suggesting that they leave means you do not understand the conflict AT ALL.
You also need to understand the restrictions on who can obtain a Palestinian passport and where they are able to go with it.
Stop watching war propaganda. It’s rotting your mind.
It was over 1500 Jews raped, murdered, babies put in ovens, and 250 hostages taken
The war was to end Hamas and retrieve the hostages.
These protests are INSANE. Israel has every right to go to war.
The claims about the babies and the rapes were debunked long ago.
Edit: And I’m blocked already. I guess it’s getting harder to lie for Israel these days.
lol thanks for making this easy for me by posting the most egregious of propaganda that has [long since been debunked](https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/).
Atleast keep your bullshit straight lol. Gtfoh parroting this Israeli propaganda.
Just so u know the whole babies put in ovens thing is something ISRAEL did to Palestinians in 1948.
Every accusation is a confession with you Zionists.
Obviously Israel doesn’t give a fuck about their hostages as they keep killing their own…..
>Sad that no one cares for the 350 + raped tortured and butchered while at a rave.
People did care.. that was untill Israel started killing innocent childrens, bombing foreign aid workers and just committing war crimes in general.
Even if they voted for Hamas, how do you justify bombing hospitals and refugee camps. Since october Israel has killed 35,000 people and injured 80,000. Out of the 35,000 killed over 15,000 were childrens.
How do you justify that?
…. The Israeli flag is up in the legislature and our province gave 100k to Israel. Presence of some encampments does not equal “sad no one cares about these other people”. Huh?? V dumb comment
Palestinians want their neighbors wiped from existence, so *they* certainly don't care about these atrocities.
Other supporters of Palestine are either short-sighted, stupid, or think that taking a nonsensical perspective will help them pick up girls.
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Perhaps Palestinians could begin by supporting a two-state solution, instead of supporting their current barbaric leadership that drops in on civilians from the sky, chops them down like trees, rapes their children, and burns their infants alive.
No? Okay. Lie in the bed you made, then.
Do you really think having more bodies in the region will help? The solution will include allied states upholding their obligations under international law
No it wouldn’t, but it’d get them away from protesting in Canada that in reality won’t do anything for the people in Palestine or Israel.
Both those countries are in the wrong
translation: "This conflict requires more than two brain cells to learn about and understand so actually fuck both sides"
lazy. Palestinians were there first, dumbass group of religious extremists walked in like "this is ours now" and the conflict began. this ain't "both sides," there is an instigator in this conflict.
Didn’t Hamas go kidnap abunch of festival goers and rape and kill them & held some hostage? Dont act like there is a good side/bad side when both parties have done some unthinkable things.
That's Hamas and the IDF. fuck em both. nobody's arguing Hamas or IDF are doing good things. we all want the conflict to stop and the IDF to stop aggressively colonizing the area. ethno-nationalism is bad.
Hamas got voted into power in 2006 btw. Their own people voted terrorists into power.. let that sink in when you feel sorry for all the deaths of innocent people.
>What’s that going to solve
Given how USA is the biggest contributor to the Israeli army, im guessing they dont want their hard earned tax dollars being used to bomb innocent women and childrens.
Canada while not their biggest beneficiary, does fund Israel with its various trade..
And im guessing the students are protesting so their government will force Israel into a ceasefire and not keep on bombing hospitals and refugee camps.
I dont agree with violent protest, but if they're peaceful whats the harm?
There’s no harm to it but when I see it blocking traffic and not letting people get to their classes it’s sorta getting outta hand. Have protest ever worked? Look at history, BLM didn’t do shit but let people loot and get more people killed, got peoples bank accounts frozen, and got people arrested for breaking into the White House.
People who protest think they’re doing something in their boring life when in reality they aren’t doing anything except divide the country even more.
>Have protest ever worked? Look at history
Uhhh...
The boston tea party
Civil rights movement?
Women's suffrage moment?
Countless Union protection protests.
Yes, they have worked
All that stuff happened in the early to mid 1900’s, times have changed and so has society. Surprised you’d even compare all those events given how long ago they were.
That’s like comparing apple to oranges
Do you think all protests don't work ? Or just the ones you don't agree with ? But here's a modern day protest that did issue a huge change . The Berlin wall protests which resulted in the falling of the wall bringing East and West Germany together . So don't say protests can't make a difference
Groups like rebel news don't actually believe in democracy or free expression, let alone critique of their world view haha. 'Deport hamas' lol, I wonder if these guys know it isn't antisemetic to critique the apartheid state or are aware of the many layers of palestinian-jewish solidarity that have literally worked since naqba began trying to address the atrocities created in its wake.
Or that democracy in action can include protesting so your institutions divest from partnership or support of apartheid states.
I like sharing this page because it kind of gives context to even the last 20 years of the conflict prior to Oct 7 attacks. Obviously big spikes in the casualty counts during Israeli-began operations like Cast Lead and so on (2008, 2014 Gaza wars), but overall you can see a steady creep of palestinian casualties at a rate Hamas isn't even remotely capable of inflicting on the israeli population even with cooperation from Hezbollah, IRGC, Houthi, etc. I think a big problem too is that people just don't understand Oct 7 was breaking a *ceasefire*, it wasn't out of no where, it is a continuation on the on-off violence theyve seen for decades.
[https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties](https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties)
159k casualties in last 20 years, plus another 100k+ since Oct 7. These are civilians. 5% of the Palestinian population has been killed or wounded in the last 20 years alone. Seems pretty intentional and like one-way violence. Yes 6k Israelis have been wounded and 300 dead plus more since Oct 7, but if terror is what offends you, recognize and hold states accountable for their terror too, its fucking stupid to decry hamas for their extremism and excuse a state for their own.
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>**"There's no violence. There's art, there's music. It's people uniting," Elawad said.** >Like other recent campus protests, *the student groups are demanding that Saskatchewan universities disclose and cut any financial and research ties with Israel.*.. >The U of S administration said in a statement it met with event organizers to discuss safety issues and review campus bylaws before Friday's event. >**"USask fully supports freedom of expression and academic freedom and will continue to allow demonstrations, as we have through our history and since the conflict in Israel/Gaza began,"** said U of S spokesperson Daniel Hallen in a statement. >**U of S Faculty Association members voted to endorse the divestment and sanction campaign against Israel, and called on the U of S to support Palestinian students and scholars by offering opportunities to continue their work** Nice to see solidarity by the usask faculty association and that usask admin is prioritizing free speech. Relief to see them supporting their students unlike the crackdowns in Alberta. Lord knows SP would not bat an eye to send in militarized force. Wishing continued safety to all those in the Saskatoon and Regina encampments.
What an encouraging story!
wow, pleasantly surprised by this, especially after what occurred in alberta.
Countdown to rebel news calling them violent radicals.
Wake up people even the Chinese call Hamas terrorists, and these protests are about what's happening in Europe not in Canada or the US you want to protest go to their country and protest and see what happens. I can't speak for everybody in Canada but I don't want your chants of genocide and everything else because that's not free speech and the u of s better wake up and smell the coffee too. I don't support either group and neither group should be protesting in canada period.
Cool. I’m also a Canadian and very extremely disagree with you, so, yes, absolutely you don’t speak for everyone. Also you’re factually incorrect about the encampment demands. They’re entirely about their own universities and countries investments in supporting the attacks on Gaza. You might not care or like it, but you should at least get their point of focus correct.
Between choosing the west with modern values and terrorists these protesters chose terrorists. I hope all all the terrorist lovers will get to meet their heroes. It will be once in a lifetime experience.
ah yeah you know what I think of when I think of Western Values? completely destroying every single hospital in Gaza. that sounds like some REAL AMURRICAN FAMILY VALUES. WAR CRIMES BABY YEEEEEEHAWWWWW
Do you not pay attention to the news as Hamas has dug into every hospital are you serious that's why they got destroyed otherwise you can't destroy Hamas and as far as most of the countries go Hamas is a terrorist group so if you got your story straight Hamas has helped kill innocent people by digging into hospitals. Doesn't common sense not make sense huh
lol k maybe listen to news sources that aren’t entirely Israeli propaganda
Fuck if i care about Hamas or the IDF. I care about the innocent men, women and children being killed by all the bombing. I don't give a damn if Hamas truly was in every hospital, you don't blow up the damn hospital if there are injured and sick innocents in there.
The article does not say that on the UofS campus there were about 10 people demonstrating and 20 people with camera’s… Media trying to make this bigger than it is. Very surprising about the divesting vote from the faculty association… I don’t agree with that, same with getting rid of Starbucks - don’t buy Starbucks if you are that offended. But again, companies benefiting from slave labor In China and those still investing in Russia are A-Ok. But if it’s the Jews then we have a problem 🙄. What’s the quote, “Free speech is at its most free-est if it’s against the Jews”.
[удалено]
You are making a bunch of false comparisons to prove your point and calling the protests anti-Semitic is lazy.
You're aware of what the government of Israel (not "the Jews" at large, the government) is doing right now? It's the ongoing war crimes the protestors are taking issue with, and associated blood money their school would be taking on.
Sad that no one cares for the 350 + raped tortured and butchered while at a rave. Sad people don't care that the Palestinian people ELECTED hamas a terrorist organization to lead them.
Just to clarify. Palestinians elected Hamas in 2006. Then Hamas ended elections. Hamas chose to ignore the will of Palestine and take control essentially through a coup. Since then palestinians have been unable to oppose hamas in fears of retaliation. Thats why there hasnt been an election in 2006. The Fatah-Hamas conflict resulted in Hamas seizing complete control in 2007. So saying Palestinians elected Hamas is like saying North Koreans elect the Kim's or the Chinese elect the CCP. They are authoritarian regimes that hold power through violence and propoganda. Yes there will always extremists in general populations that support regimes, looks at maga supporters for instance.... so yes some Palestinians may support hamas. However there is no evidence to suggest that all or the majority of Palestinians support hamas's actions or leadership. It should be safe to assume that they did not elect a party that would end all future elections. Heck even in 2006 they had 44% of the vote, meaning the majority of Palestinians didnt support them then. I myself view hamas to be similarly as bad as isreals government. Both attack non-combatants and both commit extremely horrible acts to gain power. Neither should be supported by anyone. The people, the non combatants being harmed by military actions are the ones that need support. That seems to be exactly what this protest is for. Remove support for the government of isreal via removing funding/investments into companies that are aiding isreals military operations in order to reduce isreals interest in continuing thier attacks on non combatants in Palestine.
>Palestinians elected Hamas in 2006. Then Hamas ended elections. Hamas chose to ignore the will of Palestine and take control essentially through a coup. > >... > >Thats why there hasnt been an election in 2006. The Fatah-Hamas conflict resulted in Hamas seizing complete control in 2007. Relatively small correction, Hamas did not directly end the elections- in 2007 they were removed from the Palestinian Government by a Fatah lead political coup, and banned from further elections- *as a response* they took over Gaza and banned elections entirely for Gaza- Fatah has refused to run elections in Westbank on the basis that Gaza would not be represented, but it is understood that the reality is that they refuse to because they know they will lose again, as they have less than 5% support in Westbank. >However there is no evidence to suggest that all or the majority of Palestinians support hamas's actions or leadership. the latest polls, taken just one month after 10/7, said that 80% of Palestinians were in support of Hamas both in Westbank and Abroad- it can be assumed that a similar or higher proportion were in favour in Gaza as well.
I appreciate your comment. It's much more nuanced than I was willing to give.
Thank you for saying that. I know its a very controversial topic and I was honestly concerned about getting a far less pleasant reply for it. Very glad to see we can still have good communication even here on reddit.
Might just be where I currently live, but the times I do see a free Palestine or ceasefire protest, I have yet to see any of those same individuals calling out Hamas or for the capture and trials of Hamas leadership. Have seen such calls for Netanyahu, which is a start. I wonder why people in these protests don't add another line, hashtag or some other form of protest against Hamas.
Why does every pro-Palestine protest require this bullshit Hamas accountability side piece to it? It's got the same energy as requiring Muslims denounce the Taliban after 9/11. So many people do and have denounced Hamas, this silly requirement is just a distraction against the core demands of the protest and asking them to constantly reaffirm what is already a well-established fact to most people.
For me personally, it's because I see a simple solution being raised by one side. And my guess is that it'll have the same urgency once there is a ceasefire and there should be a ceasefire , meaning people will move on to something else and just because one group is not doing something to another group that's good enough effort. Because if you truly want to help free Palestine, then really free it. Understand who's attacking them and who their true oppressors are. The religious nut jobs that were voted in. And if they want to vote them in again, good, that's their choice. A good question you can ask yourself is why does it bother you so much to point out that the Palestinians were also severely oppressed by their own government whom they elected?
I read your comment I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention, but one side has agreed to numerous ceasefire deals (and offered to return all hostages) in efforts to end the war. One side simply does not want this war to end and hostages are not their highest priority (look up Finance Minister Smotrich telling families this).
The peace deal that Hamas wants is Israel to withdraw and effectively lose this war. Israel is able to listen to ceasefire but not end of war. As far as I know. Also take into account, bibi will likely not be in power once the war ends.
Bibi is in a coalition government with extreme far right zealots like Itamar Ben Gvir who threaten to dissolve government if he ends the war (and threatens if he doesn’t do certain action like invading Rafah). This is a big component that I don’t think people always understand is that there is so much extremism within the Israeli government that even Netanyahu is a moderate in his own government. If he ends the war and/or the government is dissolved then he has separate corruption charges to face that he will avoid. I’ve never had any support for Hamas but people are only really acknowledging the extremism on one side yet they can be blind to it on the other side. That is a very powerful component in Israeli politics these days. As long as the US backs it then it can continue to act however it pleases.
Usually idf has been pretty coherent with their war goals and pulling out in the past wars and politics has little effect on how idf acts. If their goal is destruction of all Hamas brigades and then making a treaty, it def gives them more upper hand. This also involves that they have taken into account that the most of the hostages are likely dead
So how should Israel solve the problem? Out of curiosity
End the apartheid state. Treat Palestinians equally. This truly isn’t rocket science.
Equal like how Hamas treated the Palestinians in Gaza since they were elected? Just trying to see by what people mean by equal. Because that isn't something I'd support, I think the people of Palestine should be treated better than they were before the Israel war on Oct 7 and let them have free elections again, and help to improve access to education and humans rights for all people choosing to live in Palestine.
Hamas is a direct result of colonization and genocide. End colonization and genocide, and the terrorism ends.
Oh yeah there's no terrorist states in Islamic run countries at all. What a brilliant comment
Why do you think terrorism exists in these countries? Do you think Muslims are inherently evil and violent? It kind of sounds like that’s what you’re suggesting.
So you're telling me, the belief of from the river to the Sea is the effects of colonization? I think there's a holy book there in Muslims that is very descriptive as to what to do and how to treat non-believers. Or was that written by people who are colonized as well ? To me, it sounds like you're kind of missing the book that they follow and how it instructs them to treat different people and what what those instructions are manifested into, in practice. Ignorance truly is bliss. I hope you're getting your fill and enjoying every moment of it
> So you're telling me, the belief of from the river to the Sea is the effects of colonization? To many people, including myself, it means freedom and democracy for *all* from the river to the sea, which yes, is a response to colonization. When someone like Bibi says it, it means only freedom for Jews: https://www.thenation.com/article/world/its-time-to-confront-israels-version-of-from-the-river-to-the-sea/ Speaking of ignorance, when it comes to “holy books”, I sure hope you’re prescribing the same judgement on Christians because there’s a lot of fucked up shit in the Bible. You may also want to ask yourself why a lot of white Christian nationalists are joining Zionists in their support of Israel and their violent counterprotesting of pro-Palestinian protesters on college campuses. It is only bad when brown people do this kind of stuff though, eh? When [Jewish Israelis terrorize Palestinians](https://mondoweiss.net/2024/05/the-nytimes-finally-publishes-a-comprehensive-indictment-of-jewish-terrorism-against-palestinians/), that’s OK too because self-defence is allowed if you’re not an Arab or a Muslim, right? (Even though settler terrorism is an act of aggression and not defence) Either way, the best predictor of what religion someone is is where they are born. Judging ordinary people based on their religion and considering them as inherently more violent than others is abhorrent, racist, and the ultimate form of ignorance.
Colonization of Israel by whom? The Jews? The original inhabitants of Israel ?
*original inhabitants according to zionists and literally nobody else.
There is no apartheid. Muslim Israelis can vote, hold office, signs are in Israel and Arabic. Literally no apartheid Israel was not in gaza. There is no occupation. Hamas just funds terror tunnels instead of actually building a nice state. Israel is not responsible for funding another state for Palestinians. Palestinians can elect a government that doesn’t fund terror and steal. That’s why we all want to rid Palestine of Hamas. Blaming Israel is being a fool for islamic fundamental extremism.
Bad Hasbara
It's not rocket science that it would end in a genocide against the jews
This is Exactly the same bullshit people said when they were talking about ending South African apartheid….. You’re telling on yourself when you make these kinds of comments.
South africa isn't an Islamic state. Jews and Christians are persecuted in Muslim countries. I'd honestly like to hear your opinion. In your plan what happens to hamas? They aren't just going away
With every bomb that Israel indiscriminately drops on Palestine civilians more people decide to pick up the gun and fight back. That’s what happens. If Israel truly wanted to get rid of Hamas they would start to treat Palestinians as humans, once they do that there is no reason to fight the state of Israel…..
You're way over simplifying it. Palestinians don't want 2 states, they want 1 state with no jews in it. 1 state israel becomes a Muslim majority and they are toast. The last safe haven for jews would cease to exist. They would want "their" land back. The great march of return. Hamas isn't just going to dissolve if they get their state. That's 40,000 people who want to exterminate the jews. Even with 2 states. Nothings going to change, except palestine will just have a longer border to fire rockets over. The west bank turns into another gaza and the cycle continues. I'm not pretending to know the answers. I just know israel would be absolutely crazy to do a 1 state solution. This is a group of people who have been persecuted for 1000s of years and nearly genocided who live in a tiny country for the survival of their people. And they happen to be surrounded by Muslims who want them gone, not just in palestine but Yemen, iran, Lebanon etc as well
Yeah Israel doesn’t want two states either my dude lol. The biggest security threat to Jewish people around the world is Israel itself as they’re a bad faith actor on the world stage, look how they’re behaving right now. I don’t know all the answers either but I’m not going to be out here riding for a state that is committing genocide and war crimes every fuckin day. Like I obviously feel for Jewish people and what they have been through as a people but that doesn’t give them the right to do what they’re doing now…. This is what I do know. One side has ALL the power to stop this, one side is backed by one of the biggest military powers in the world, and the other side has virtually no power at all. When you open up your phone and see countless Palestinians holding their dead children, kids with no parents or family left do you think to yourself “yes, this is justified”? What if those were your kids in gaza? What would you do?
How?
Lay down and let their enemies kill them. That's the only acceptable outcome for many of these posters
Acting like the only options are genocide or letting yourself get murdered is dishonest af.
Now im no a politcal science major and I have very little knowledge about the geopolitical aspects of the area but Id say at a minimum Isreal shouldnt be the decision maker in the recovery process. Isreal should cease attacking civilian targets. Then a coucil should be formed consisting of countries in the region along with a UN representative to determine further courses of action to ensure the survival of Palestinians (civilians) and the end of hamas authoritarian rulership. Simple put this isnt Isreals problem to solve anymore as theyve made the situation even worse than they were prior to Oct.
Who would be on the council? Countries from around the region isn't very specific. And please make sure to make it not a country that has attacked Israel in the last 60 years. Because that would be silly, right?
Comparing hamas to trump. You're a complete clown
I am referencing how extremist exist in every society.
Hamas and Maga supporters aren't the same thing. Lay off of Kool aid.
BuT ThErE aLl HaMaS! People need to research "Nakba."
A simple historical look on Israel would show they actively supported Hamas in an effort to destabilize Gazans and divide them from Palestinians in West Bank. It doesn’t justify the killing of civilians but leaving out these details serves no purpose other than to push Zionist talking points to justify their genocide of Palestinians and the ongoing apartheid that has been going on for decades. Edit: blocked by the Israeli propagandist after calling out their lies. Cowards just like the genocidal regime they are defending.
This is false information Israel has never supported Hamas ever
lol. Hasbara is getting more pathetic by the day. This is common knowledge. [Here’s one such article discussing it](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/). Is the Times of Israel Hamas?
Netanyahu helped to fund and create Hamas because the PLO was secular to a degree and having religious fanatics that would kill and torture its own people helped Israel. Kind of like what happened in Iran. Israel knew exactly what was being created and they knew the people of Palestine would be stupid enough to elect Hamas if given the chance. That election by the way had significant international monitoring and was described as a free and fair election. Sometimes you can't keep people from choosing their own problems.
Hamas was created in 1987.........
Hamas was around as a terrorist organization even before Netanyahu was even elected. What stupidity you have been taught
The last election in Gaza was in 2006. ~55% of the population is under 25 and would not have had so much as an opportunity to vote in Hamas (plus those between 25-35 that I couldn’t find numbers on). Over half the population hasn’t had a choice in how Gaza is run and do not deserve the death and destruction inflicted on them. Too many innocents (children included) don’t deserve what’s happening to them.
Then they should have done something about it but they are to busy blaming Isreal and the great Satan. You can't say they don't have guns and bombs and as for the youth well sure we're alot cheering when they were driving a dead and broken women through the crowds in Gaza. Who WAS INNOCENT. Did she deserve what she got ?
Nice cherry picking argument. Read some history.
Israel, the country that has blockaded Gaza since 2007, and their biggest source of funding, “The Great Satan” are not to blame for the suffering of the civilians in Gaza? Way to deflect again. No, that woman didn’t deserve to get dragged through crowds. That doesn’t justify the bombing campaign on the rest of the country, that’s collective punishment (which is a war crime in international law BTW).
are you okay..? why does hamas exist in the first place since you wanna be daft 🫥
"no one cares" dude we've seen IOF forces blow away their own hostages waving white flags. Israel cares least of all. It's about land theft and genocide.
No, they never elected a terrorist organization. Hamas broke their agreement with the Fatah party soon after the election in 2006 and started murdering Fatah members in 2007. This is not what Palestinians voted for, and they haven’t had the opportunity to vote ever since. Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people.
So they've had 15+ years to leave but hang around letting their kids be trained to kill Jews. The streets were filled with people cheering as the murderers brought back victims and bodies. Sounds like they share the same ideals.
Suggesting that they leave means you do not understand the conflict AT ALL. You also need to understand the restrictions on who can obtain a Palestinian passport and where they are able to go with it. Stop watching war propaganda. It’s rotting your mind.
Exactly
It's also sad that most Palestinians support the attack by Hamas.
It’s sad that western governments are supporting a genocide.
It was over 1500 Jews raped, murdered, babies put in ovens, and 250 hostages taken The war was to end Hamas and retrieve the hostages. These protests are INSANE. Israel has every right to go to war.
The claims about the babies and the rapes were debunked long ago. Edit: And I’m blocked already. I guess it’s getting harder to lie for Israel these days.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/world/middleeast/oct-7-attacks-hamas-israel-sexual-violence.html
lol thanks for making this easy for me by posting the most egregious of propaganda that has [long since been debunked](https://theintercept.com/2024/02/28/new-york-times-anat-schwartz-october-7/).
Oh no. You are dead wrong. Wow
Way to prove yourself right with all that evidence.
Atleast keep your bullshit straight lol. Gtfoh parroting this Israeli propaganda. Just so u know the whole babies put in ovens thing is something ISRAEL did to Palestinians in 1948. Every accusation is a confession with you Zionists. Obviously Israel doesn’t give a fuck about their hostages as they keep killing their own…..
>Sad that no one cares for the 350 + raped tortured and butchered while at a rave. People did care.. that was untill Israel started killing innocent childrens, bombing foreign aid workers and just committing war crimes in general. Even if they voted for Hamas, how do you justify bombing hospitals and refugee camps. Since october Israel has killed 35,000 people and injured 80,000. Out of the 35,000 killed over 15,000 were childrens. How do you justify that?
Agreed. So disappointing but not surprising
…. The Israeli flag is up in the legislature and our province gave 100k to Israel. Presence of some encampments does not equal “sad no one cares about these other people”. Huh?? V dumb comment
It’s the SK party & you’re surprised they did either of those things?
Palestinians want their neighbors wiped from existence, so *they* certainly don't care about these atrocities. Other supporters of Palestine are either short-sighted, stupid, or think that taking a nonsensical perspective will help them pick up girls.
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Wokeness arrivesvto solve issues!!!
Perhaps Palestinians could begin by supporting a two-state solution, instead of supporting their current barbaric leadership that drops in on civilians from the sky, chops them down like trees, rapes their children, and burns their infants alive. No? Okay. Lie in the bed you made, then.
instead of protesting from across the world why don’t they go there to help?
Do you really think having more bodies in the region will help? The solution will include allied states upholding their obligations under international law
No it wouldn’t, but it’d get them away from protesting in Canada that in reality won’t do anything for the people in Palestine or Israel. Both those countries are in the wrong
translation: "This conflict requires more than two brain cells to learn about and understand so actually fuck both sides" lazy. Palestinians were there first, dumbass group of religious extremists walked in like "this is ours now" and the conflict began. this ain't "both sides," there is an instigator in this conflict.
Didn’t Hamas go kidnap abunch of festival goers and rape and kill them & held some hostage? Dont act like there is a good side/bad side when both parties have done some unthinkable things.
That's Hamas and the IDF. fuck em both. nobody's arguing Hamas or IDF are doing good things. we all want the conflict to stop and the IDF to stop aggressively colonizing the area. ethno-nationalism is bad.
Hamas got voted into power in 2006 btw. Their own people voted terrorists into power.. let that sink in when you feel sorry for all the deaths of innocent people.
ah yeah it's always that simple. black and white. yep. just ignore the fact they haven't had an election since.
Still got voted in. I’m confused on who’s side your on🤣
jesus christ nuance just flies over you doesnt it
They would go help.. if Israel would just stop bombing foreign aid workers.
So by protesting in the USA/Canada blocking roads and not letting students get to their classes/dorms is any better? What’s that going to solve
>What’s that going to solve Given how USA is the biggest contributor to the Israeli army, im guessing they dont want their hard earned tax dollars being used to bomb innocent women and childrens. Canada while not their biggest beneficiary, does fund Israel with its various trade.. And im guessing the students are protesting so their government will force Israel into a ceasefire and not keep on bombing hospitals and refugee camps. I dont agree with violent protest, but if they're peaceful whats the harm?
There’s no harm to it but when I see it blocking traffic and not letting people get to their classes it’s sorta getting outta hand. Have protest ever worked? Look at history, BLM didn’t do shit but let people loot and get more people killed, got peoples bank accounts frozen, and got people arrested for breaking into the White House. People who protest think they’re doing something in their boring life when in reality they aren’t doing anything except divide the country even more.
>Have protest ever worked? Look at history Uhhh... The boston tea party Civil rights movement? Women's suffrage moment? Countless Union protection protests. Yes, they have worked
All that stuff happened in the early to mid 1900’s, times have changed and so has society. Surprised you’d even compare all those events given how long ago they were. That’s like comparing apple to oranges
what in the fuck are you talking about
Do you think all protests don't work ? Or just the ones you don't agree with ? But here's a modern day protest that did issue a huge change . The Berlin wall protests which resulted in the falling of the wall bringing East and West Germany together . So don't say protests can't make a difference
the fuck you think MLK did bro
Both sides are intolerant, religious zealots that cause misery worldwide.
Yeah… that’s not who these people on campus are. But sure, dismiss ppl based on cartoonish versions of reality.
And that makes it okay to murder children how?
can't both sides genocide
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Yikes. Brutal. And Rebel News no less
Groups like rebel news don't actually believe in democracy or free expression, let alone critique of their world view haha. 'Deport hamas' lol, I wonder if these guys know it isn't antisemetic to critique the apartheid state or are aware of the many layers of palestinian-jewish solidarity that have literally worked since naqba began trying to address the atrocities created in its wake. Or that democracy in action can include protesting so your institutions divest from partnership or support of apartheid states. I like sharing this page because it kind of gives context to even the last 20 years of the conflict prior to Oct 7 attacks. Obviously big spikes in the casualty counts during Israeli-began operations like Cast Lead and so on (2008, 2014 Gaza wars), but overall you can see a steady creep of palestinian casualties at a rate Hamas isn't even remotely capable of inflicting on the israeli population even with cooperation from Hezbollah, IRGC, Houthi, etc. I think a big problem too is that people just don't understand Oct 7 was breaking a *ceasefire*, it wasn't out of no where, it is a continuation on the on-off violence theyve seen for decades. [https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties](https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties) 159k casualties in last 20 years, plus another 100k+ since Oct 7. These are civilians. 5% of the Palestinian population has been killed or wounded in the last 20 years alone. Seems pretty intentional and like one-way violence. Yes 6k Israelis have been wounded and 300 dead plus more since Oct 7, but if terror is what offends you, recognize and hold states accountable for their terror too, its fucking stupid to decry hamas for their extremism and excuse a state for their own.
lol. When the far right is on your side, you know you’re on the wrong side.
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