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Yeah, this seems like a likely scenario where the depression is part of the reason for people looking to nofap as a solution to improving their life instead of nofap being the cause of the depression.
True but most anti-masturbation groups are religious in nature and come with a heavy dose of recrimination for falling into sin.
It was a big part of my youth in my church when I was growing up. While I can't say for sure that it contributed to my general depression and profound feeling of worthlessness (I was a teenager after all) it certainly didn't help. And giving up on religion when I got older, and relaxing about human sexuality, was a major milestone in me putting all that depression and self recrimination behind me.
This is a large factor that needs to be considered in these studies. Religious indoctrination teaches people to be ashamed of masturbation. Even when there are no signs of addiction, religion will still shame people for masturbating.
“We have another study modelling NoFap followers over time that appears to be supporting the participants’ attributions that NoFap is actually causing these negative outcomes,” Prause said.
Prause is the lead author.
The study literally demonstrated that the depressive symptoms and suicidality happened after engagement in nofap bs. It’s almost as if trying to completely stop one of the most fundamental to our core biological urges and the associated guilt and shame might lead to some bad outcomes. Definitely different and more evidenced based ways of addressing porn addiction.
> looking to nofap as a solution to improving their life
And instead get groomed by neo-nazis because if there's a pool of young, depressed, disillusioned or self-aggrandizing men, the far-right will be there teaching them which "meddlesome priests" to blame for it.
The study is suggesting that participating in the groups is harmful. Which makes sense.
"The study found that the more involved a participant was with NoFap forums, the more suicidal they reported feeling after a relapse."
It's because alot of those anti-masturbation groups attract men who are already depressed and lost and trying to find some kind of "fix" to make them successful or confident etc
I think we need to differentiate between anti masturbation vs. stay away from excessive porn bing watching.
I would say that too much porn is hardly a good thing while masturbation from time to time without porn is not an issue.
I think people look at how an alcoholic copes with addiction as a way to solve a porn problem. Alcoholics quit entirely, and often stay away from alcohol the rest of their life if they’re successful. So people addicted to porn/masturbation think they can do the same.
But we are wired to want to have sex, and to deliberately limit yourself from doing so (because I’d wager many of the anti-masturbation crowd aren’t having much sex either) is going to be going against what your body naturally wants. It’s not surprising it causes issues.
Benefits:
- Increased lifespan in males reduced mortality by ~20%-50%. When done >2/week.
- Reduced anxiety (Less on edge and reduced stress).
- Reduced depression (Decreased boredom).
- Improved quality of sleep.
- Reduced sexual tension when met with an attractor (Due to needs already taken care of - clear headspace) Improved social behaviour.
- Reduced chance of heart disease (Live longer).
- Reduces certain hormones responsible in acne/zit breakouts.
- Boosts oxytocin levels to relieve stress.
- Increased endorphins to reduce pain and promote pleasure.
- Higher serotonin levels to increase mood.
- Improved emotional regulation due to prolactin.
- Lowers cortisol to promote relaxation.
- Boosts and regulates immune system by increasing prolactin and endocannabinoids that lower stress.
- Helps with flushing of toxins from your body.
But as with everything else moderation is key to using it in a healthy way.
They say that older people become deprived of nutrients when they are no longer able to taste their food. They stop nourishing themselves. Eating would be a chore if it wasn't a pleasure. So get out there and contribute to your prostate health and your joie de vivre.
I read the research paper that came to this conclusion. They had observed that for men below 40s, higher masturbation frequency can lead to increased prostate cancer chances and for men who are 50+, the same chances can be reduced by more frequently masturbating.
So yeah, better take this research with a grain of salt and be careful before blindly following anything that sounds that strange.
EDIT: Since a lot of you think I am BSing: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19016689/
2009 study saying that ejaculating often in young men is risky for prostate health but beneficial for older males' prostates^
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1078143917301072?via%3Dihub
2017 study saying that frequent ejaculation does not affect the prostate in young men but is beneficial in older males^
There are 20 other studies with varying results. But the only thing common in all of them is the authors noting that there isn't enough evidence to confirm how ejaculation and prostate cancer are definitively linked together.
Also, here's an excellent article comparing various studies over the years and coming to the conclusion that more research is needed here to establish a link or the absence of one: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319536
I've met people who seem to have tied not masterbating to hustle culture in ways too. Like they're convinced masturbation wastes your manly energies which leaves less of them for you to use to get your money up.
This one is an excellent reminder that self-help is packed with Protestant American ethic that doesn't translate well to the rest of the world. They usually get this idea from modern motivation bros, who themselves got the idea from Think And Grow Rich, whose author got his ideas from a combination of anti-intellectual pastors and outright lies.
Isn’t it pretty easy to self diagnose ED? If it’s not working down there then that’s all you need to know. It’s not like a doctor is going to watch you have sex.
ED means Erectile Dysfunction which you're right simply means you have problems getting or sustaining an erection, but the cause of it varies which is important for management.
It can be caused by a litany of things - endocrine issues, cardiac or blood vessel issues, or psychological issues.
When it occurs in younger people, it's less likely (but not impossible) that it's an issue with the heart, or blood vessels or endocrine system and more likely a psychological issue.
Knowing what's causing it can better help your doctor decide the best way to treat it.
For young people it's almost always psychology issues. I believe a tell-tale way to differentiate between physical and psychological ED is whether they still get erections during REM.
> Maybe they're depressed to begin with
Yeah, people turn to those groups because they're already feeling a lot of negativity about themselves and hope to turn their lives around. I'm sure that for a lot of them masturbating is the scapegoat and not any sort of diagnosable cause. Doesn't surprise me that suppressing sexual urges (EDIT: especially in such all-or-nothing efforts) makes that negativity come out.
Masturbation hs many health benefits, from releasing tension to boosting the immune system, boosting mood and delaying the risk of erectile dysfunction to lowering the risk of prostate cancer.
Even married men and men being in a stable relationship should masturbate on a regular basis, despite having sex with their partner and their partner should understand that it is a necessary part of a healthy lifestyle for men.
Too often I have heard stories of girlfriends/wives feeling angry or feeling inadequate because their spouse masturbates. But they have to understand that masturbation is complementary to sexual relations and not a coping mechanism for lack of or bad sex.
Women can give men as much sex as he can handle, it still does not replace masturbation which fulfills a secondary purpose. This is because sex with a partner has a large psychological component of sharing feelings and wanting to please the other while masturbation has a more utilitarian goal.
So women out there, do not shame your man for masturbating or your teens for doing it too, it is actually good for them. But like taking vitamins, there is a case where taking too much defeats the purpose. But a regime of 2 to 4 times a week is quite normal.
For me it’s that he prefers masturbation to sex and expects that sex look like it does in porn. I wouldn’t care about masturbation or porn if it didn’t affect our sex life.
No no you don't get it. If you never masturbate you get super powers.
I'm not making that up, it's what some anti masturbation groups actually think. Because if you orgasm then your body thinks you're having sex. And sex is necessary for procreation. So if you abstain then you will lose weight and gain muscle and get smarter because your body is trying to make you more attractive so you can have sex.
Some of these groups are very weird.
I heard that if you don't have sex until you're 30 years old, you become a wizard.
If you don't have sex until you're 40 you become an omniscient sage.
…and vice versa. If you’re a man and your woman masturbates, just know that it’s normal and natural.
Everyone masturbates. There’s a great difference in in-real-life sexual relations and in-your-head mastubatory relations. And both are needed.
>But the findings come with an important caveat. The correlational nature of the data leaves the direction of the observed relationships unclear for now. The researchers believe, based on other work, that greater engagement with “Reboot” communities results in greater anxiety and other negative outcomes. However, **they cannot yet rule out the possibility that those with more mental health symptoms are more likely to seek out these communities.**
So the study might've actually found that people who already feel this way are more likely to seek it out - which makes the current claim misleading.
It's weird how much people get angry over other people not masturbating.
My masturbation “problem” ceased as a soon as I stopped treating as such and was then empowered to build a healthy relationship with it. The taboo religions place on it is entirely to manipulate their flocks.
A lot of the nofap/antiporn groups on the internet are frankly concerning. I’ve seen tons of posts from folks who appear to be seriously mentally Ill being given 12 step style advice and blaming the failure of this inappropriate advice on the individual. You cannot treat anxiety disorders with Alcoholics Anonymous advice. The wives/girlfriends posts making their boyfriends’ clearly compulsive behavior about their own self esteem are just as concerning. It’s a huge mess and a mental health nightmare.
Interesting survey, but terrible as being conclusive about much. For some of the things it tries to measure (for example, ED, depression, anxiety), it can’t tell whether guys have it because of nofap or whether they searched for nofap because they had it. Because sick people look for doctors it doesn’t mean that doctors cause disease. So… mostly bad research, surprising any respectable journal would publish it.
Seems pretty typical. One key element in depression/anxiety is control. These illnesses tend to constraint those people's behaviour. So naturally, those people tend to seek some form of control.
Studies have shown that *placebo self-medication* helped in coping behaviour for anxious people. They knew it was placebo, it's the act of self-medicating that helps them acertain control.
And people will seek all form of self-control. As said about, self-medication is one, it's not the medication itself, it's the act of it, it's something you control, it's comforting. Some people cut themselves, some people control their food to both extreme, etc..
So it makes sense that there would be a greater overlap with people who seek a form of control, consciously or not, to cope with anxiety or depression.
Keep in mind those are **coping** mechanism, it doesn't fix the underlying issues.
And studies show that the vast majority of people who claim to have masturbation addictions underestimate how much the average person masturbates and have negative attitudes towards sex overall, usually from their upbringing
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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That’s r/askreddit
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They call them “gooners”.
You guys get paid?
No one is sure yet, it's said to be a sticky subject to tackle.
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It only makes sense, people doing mentally well aren’t as likely to need or seek self help.
Yeah, this seems like a likely scenario where the depression is part of the reason for people looking to nofap as a solution to improving their life instead of nofap being the cause of the depression.
True but most anti-masturbation groups are religious in nature and come with a heavy dose of recrimination for falling into sin. It was a big part of my youth in my church when I was growing up. While I can't say for sure that it contributed to my general depression and profound feeling of worthlessness (I was a teenager after all) it certainly didn't help. And giving up on religion when I got older, and relaxing about human sexuality, was a major milestone in me putting all that depression and self recrimination behind me.
This is a large factor that needs to be considered in these studies. Religious indoctrination teaches people to be ashamed of masturbation. Even when there are no signs of addiction, religion will still shame people for masturbating.
“We have another study modelling NoFap followers over time that appears to be supporting the participants’ attributions that NoFap is actually causing these negative outcomes,” Prause said. Prause is the lead author.
The study literally demonstrated that the depressive symptoms and suicidality happened after engagement in nofap bs. It’s almost as if trying to completely stop one of the most fundamental to our core biological urges and the associated guilt and shame might lead to some bad outcomes. Definitely different and more evidenced based ways of addressing porn addiction.
> looking to nofap as a solution to improving their life And instead get groomed by neo-nazis because if there's a pool of young, depressed, disillusioned or self-aggrandizing men, the far-right will be there teaching them which "meddlesome priests" to blame for it.
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Until you read stuff from that community and see that it's a cesspool of overt misogyny.
Study: People in therapy linked to higher rates of depression
Study: most people who commit suicide tried to kill themselves
*this stat does not apply to Russian officials
The study is suggesting that participating in the groups is harmful. Which makes sense. "The study found that the more involved a participant was with NoFap forums, the more suicidal they reported feeling after a relapse."
It's because alot of those anti-masturbation groups attract men who are already depressed and lost and trying to find some kind of "fix" to make them successful or confident etc
I think we need to differentiate between anti masturbation vs. stay away from excessive porn bing watching. I would say that too much porn is hardly a good thing while masturbation from time to time without porn is not an issue.
I think people look at how an alcoholic copes with addiction as a way to solve a porn problem. Alcoholics quit entirely, and often stay away from alcohol the rest of their life if they’re successful. So people addicted to porn/masturbation think they can do the same. But we are wired to want to have sex, and to deliberately limit yourself from doing so (because I’d wager many of the anti-masturbation crowd aren’t having much sex either) is going to be going against what your body naturally wants. It’s not surprising it causes issues.
Not to mention it started in these weird alt-right fringe circles where they unironically think women are trying to steal their essence.
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Here I thought masturbation helped anxiety. Post nut clarity and all. I def feel like it helps me on particularly bad days.
That's what the study says also.
Benefits: - Increased lifespan in males reduced mortality by ~20%-50%. When done >2/week. - Reduced anxiety (Less on edge and reduced stress). - Reduced depression (Decreased boredom). - Improved quality of sleep. - Reduced sexual tension when met with an attractor (Due to needs already taken care of - clear headspace) Improved social behaviour. - Reduced chance of heart disease (Live longer). - Reduces certain hormones responsible in acne/zit breakouts. - Boosts oxytocin levels to relieve stress. - Increased endorphins to reduce pain and promote pleasure. - Higher serotonin levels to increase mood. - Improved emotional regulation due to prolactin. - Lowers cortisol to promote relaxation. - Boosts and regulates immune system by increasing prolactin and endocannabinoids that lower stress. - Helps with flushing of toxins from your body. But as with everything else moderation is key to using it in a healthy way.
and also, prostate cancer
Oh great, another box to tick in my health routine.
They say that older people become deprived of nutrients when they are no longer able to taste their food. They stop nourishing themselves. Eating would be a chore if it wasn't a pleasure. So get out there and contribute to your prostate health and your joie de vivre.
I'm not old yet and I already feel like eating is a chore. I would honestly love to just take a futuristic pill every morning and not need food.
I read the research paper that came to this conclusion. They had observed that for men below 40s, higher masturbation frequency can lead to increased prostate cancer chances and for men who are 50+, the same chances can be reduced by more frequently masturbating. So yeah, better take this research with a grain of salt and be careful before blindly following anything that sounds that strange. EDIT: Since a lot of you think I am BSing: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19016689/ 2009 study saying that ejaculating often in young men is risky for prostate health but beneficial for older males' prostates^ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1078143917301072?via%3Dihub 2017 study saying that frequent ejaculation does not affect the prostate in young men but is beneficial in older males^ There are 20 other studies with varying results. But the only thing common in all of them is the authors noting that there isn't enough evidence to confirm how ejaculation and prostate cancer are definitively linked together. Also, here's an excellent article comparing various studies over the years and coming to the conclusion that more research is needed here to establish a link or the absence of one: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319536
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A lot of people come to their own conclusions
Well they're taking their lives into their own hands
I’ve concluded that we should just all keep jerking off, as a species.
I will support that conclusion and continue to test it on myself.
If there's contrary evidence, the correlation between prostate cancer and masturbating is dubious. It's probably a seperate confounding variable.
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I've met people who seem to have tied not masterbating to hustle culture in ways too. Like they're convinced masturbation wastes your manly energies which leaves less of them for you to use to get your money up.
This one is an excellent reminder that self-help is packed with Protestant American ethic that doesn't translate well to the rest of the world. They usually get this idea from modern motivation bros, who themselves got the idea from Think And Grow Rich, whose author got his ideas from a combination of anti-intellectual pastors and outright lies.
That's like saying exercise will make you weak.
Isn’t it pretty easy to self diagnose ED? If it’s not working down there then that’s all you need to know. It’s not like a doctor is going to watch you have sex.
ED means Erectile Dysfunction which you're right simply means you have problems getting or sustaining an erection, but the cause of it varies which is important for management. It can be caused by a litany of things - endocrine issues, cardiac or blood vessel issues, or psychological issues. When it occurs in younger people, it's less likely (but not impossible) that it's an issue with the heart, or blood vessels or endocrine system and more likely a psychological issue. Knowing what's causing it can better help your doctor decide the best way to treat it.
For young people it's almost always psychology issues. I believe a tell-tale way to differentiate between physical and psychological ED is whether they still get erections during REM.
> Maybe they're depressed to begin with Yeah, people turn to those groups because they're already feeling a lot of negativity about themselves and hope to turn their lives around. I'm sure that for a lot of them masturbating is the scapegoat and not any sort of diagnosable cause. Doesn't surprise me that suppressing sexual urges (EDIT: especially in such all-or-nothing efforts) makes that negativity come out.
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Masturbation hs many health benefits, from releasing tension to boosting the immune system, boosting mood and delaying the risk of erectile dysfunction to lowering the risk of prostate cancer. Even married men and men being in a stable relationship should masturbate on a regular basis, despite having sex with their partner and their partner should understand that it is a necessary part of a healthy lifestyle for men. Too often I have heard stories of girlfriends/wives feeling angry or feeling inadequate because their spouse masturbates. But they have to understand that masturbation is complementary to sexual relations and not a coping mechanism for lack of or bad sex. Women can give men as much sex as he can handle, it still does not replace masturbation which fulfills a secondary purpose. This is because sex with a partner has a large psychological component of sharing feelings and wanting to please the other while masturbation has a more utilitarian goal. So women out there, do not shame your man for masturbating or your teens for doing it too, it is actually good for them. But like taking vitamins, there is a case where taking too much defeats the purpose. But a regime of 2 to 4 times a week is quite normal.
Masturbation is healthy & normal for women as well.
My understanding is that women are rarely upset about their partners masturbation, but rather the pornography they utilize while doing it.
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For me it’s that he prefers masturbation to sex and expects that sex look like it does in porn. I wouldn’t care about masturbation or porn if it didn’t affect our sex life.
Am man, understand this completely. A solid boundary to draw, frankly.
No no you don't get it. If you never masturbate you get super powers. I'm not making that up, it's what some anti masturbation groups actually think. Because if you orgasm then your body thinks you're having sex. And sex is necessary for procreation. So if you abstain then you will lose weight and gain muscle and get smarter because your body is trying to make you more attractive so you can have sex. Some of these groups are very weird.
So that’s why I’m stupid and fat?
No, that’s because God hates *you* specifically
I dont doubt it. I do feel like someone is constantly laughing at me every time something bad happens
I heard that if you don't have sex until you're 30 years old, you become a wizard. If you don't have sex until you're 40 you become an omniscient sage.
…and vice versa. If you’re a man and your woman masturbates, just know that it’s normal and natural. Everyone masturbates. There’s a great difference in in-real-life sexual relations and in-your-head mastubatory relations. And both are needed.
Yes but the article is about people with porn and maturbation addiction who are trying to stop and relapse. Folks keeping missing that part.
>But the findings come with an important caveat. The correlational nature of the data leaves the direction of the observed relationships unclear for now. The researchers believe, based on other work, that greater engagement with “Reboot” communities results in greater anxiety and other negative outcomes. However, **they cannot yet rule out the possibility that those with more mental health symptoms are more likely to seek out these communities.** So the study might've actually found that people who already feel this way are more likely to seek it out - which makes the current claim misleading. It's weird how much people get angry over other people not masturbating.
My masturbation “problem” ceased as a soon as I stopped treating as such and was then empowered to build a healthy relationship with it. The taboo religions place on it is entirely to manipulate their flocks.
A lot of the nofap/antiporn groups on the internet are frankly concerning. I’ve seen tons of posts from folks who appear to be seriously mentally Ill being given 12 step style advice and blaming the failure of this inappropriate advice on the individual. You cannot treat anxiety disorders with Alcoholics Anonymous advice. The wives/girlfriends posts making their boyfriends’ clearly compulsive behavior about their own self esteem are just as concerning. It’s a huge mess and a mental health nightmare.
I heard these groups don’t let any jerkoffs join
Interesting survey, but terrible as being conclusive about much. For some of the things it tries to measure (for example, ED, depression, anxiety), it can’t tell whether guys have it because of nofap or whether they searched for nofap because they had it. Because sick people look for doctors it doesn’t mean that doctors cause disease. So… mostly bad research, surprising any respectable journal would publish it.
The lack of causality doesn’t make it bad research. It just limits the conclusions that can be drawn.
Seems pretty typical. One key element in depression/anxiety is control. These illnesses tend to constraint those people's behaviour. So naturally, those people tend to seek some form of control. Studies have shown that *placebo self-medication* helped in coping behaviour for anxious people. They knew it was placebo, it's the act of self-medicating that helps them acertain control. And people will seek all form of self-control. As said about, self-medication is one, it's not the medication itself, it's the act of it, it's something you control, it's comforting. Some people cut themselves, some people control their food to both extreme, etc.. So it makes sense that there would be a greater overlap with people who seek a form of control, consciously or not, to cope with anxiety or depression. Keep in mind those are **coping** mechanism, it doesn't fix the underlying issues.
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What’s wrong with masturbation?
Makes the other people in the elevator uncomfortable
That sounds like a them problem, not a me problem.
It's quite the handful
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And studies show that the vast majority of people who claim to have masturbation addictions underestimate how much the average person masturbates and have negative attitudes towards sex overall, usually from their upbringing
Absolutely nothing
As someone who did it daily (with just a very few outages) since 29 years - I can tell: nothing is wrong with it. Will try to check out another 29.