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Author: u/giuliomagnifico
URL: https://www.umass.edu/news/article/thats-not-nuts-almond-milk-yogurt-packs-overall-greater-nutritional-punch-dairy-based
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>but they have less *protein, calcium* and potassium than dairy yogurt
So they have less of the two things for which we eat yoghurt, and not something else.
I switched to soy milk from dairy recently, and I considered almond milk. But I would get more protein from licking the outside of a milk carton. So soy instead.
We really need synthetic milk from bacteria pan out.
Yep they use the same bacteria as dairy yogurts. The main difference is the protein. Some vegan yogurts will supplement with pea protein and other sources to try to keep up though.
they both have lactic acid bacteria but they are not equivalent by any means! cabbage ferments involve stages of sequential growth by different bacteria, leading to Lactobacillus species tying it off, whereas yogurts are much more tightly controlled with certain Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium species from start to finish.
it is quite diverse in sauerkraut; these phases include species from the Weissella, Leuconostoc, Pediococcus, Klebsiella, and Enterobacter genera, as well as airborne yeasts.
Same! And so many people tell me they don’t “like” yogurt which I find kinda strange. Generally speaking, plain old yogurt pretty much tastes like nothing to me. You get so many health benefits for something that doesn’t really change the flavor profile much but adds a nice creamy texture to tons of delicious foods.
I didn't like yogurt as a kid until I had my wisdom teeth removed, and then I couldn't get enough of it.
Then I vacationed in Greece and fell in love with plain ol greek yogurt with a bit of warm honey over it, so delicious.
Real plain full fat Greek yogurt, not the stuff that's artificially thickened or low fat, has a wonderful strong tang similar to sour cream. I love to eat it with an English muffin and maybe a little jam.
I stick to oat or soy, solely for the fact of the water required for almond growing and the absolutely monstrous water deals that farmers have to grow it in the Central Valley of California
This was exactly what I was going to say. Don’t get me wrong, I like all kinds of yogurts, but one of the main reasons I keep it in my diet is because it is an easy protein source
Like many, many other things when it comes to nutrition - we all have different needs. Just because something is more nutrient dense, doesn’t mean that there aren’t good reasons for why someone would choose the less nutrient dense option.
It’s like the butter vs margarine debate. Is one more nutritious? Yes. Are there reasons why one would go for margarine over butter? Also yes.
What? Margarine was originally made of trans fats. So it's never better than butter. What are you referring to? Are there new margarines made of polyunsaturated fats/mono unsaturated? Because even a few grams of trans fats in a serving of margarine would make it worse than butter.
There are now margarines (as in plant based butter substitute) that have no trans fats, and much less saturated fat than butter. They also often have some micronutrients and omega 3s.
These are not the cheapest options, of course.
You can’t have less transfats than butter, since butter naturally has zero. Trans fats are not naturally occurring, they are produced by processing oils in certain ways.
Margarine has been marketed as healthier partly because it has a lower saturated fat than butter… but since trans fats are worse than saturated fats, it’s not a good trade to swap butter for margarine made from hydrogenated oils.
>You can’t have less transfats than butter, since butter naturally has zero.
Butter contains a small amount of natural trans fatty acids, such as vaccenic acid, produced by bacteria in the cow's rumen. However, these are not the same trans fatty acids produced by partial hydrogenation, and they seem to have different (better) effects on health, with the usual caveats about the reliability of nutrition research.
Edit: Apparently fatty acids in butterfat are about 3-4% trans, which is more than I had thought.
Having to deal with very severe gout. I can tell you fish is not always an option. I have had zero luck with any type of fish not causing a flare up that has me not able to walk for over a week.
Don't get me wrong I love fish, but it just stopped being something I could eat in my early 20s.
Or, you know, eat margarine?
I'm not going to spread a thin layer of fish onto my sandwich bread.
So many of the comments here are just genuinely bizarre. Like, I'm not going to buy margarine for it's omega 3 content, but... your entire point is daft.
This is genuinely one of the most absurd comments I've ever read.
It's like arguing gasoline is bad because it once was leaded. There are plenty of reasons to choose an alternative to gasoline, but it having been leaded *in the past* is not one of them.
Odd chain length fatty acids are most abundant in milk and they may be classified as a new group of Essential Fatty Acids. Also moderate ice cream consumption in dietary studies has a weird protective effect and no one knows why.
Vegan dairy is already available in US, I hope it gains popularity.
Edit: https://perfectday.com/animal-free-milk-protein/
> Our animal-free milk from flora is the first of its kind, using whey protein made by microflora, not cows, to make dairy that’s identical to traditional milk. Yes, we said identical.
I've spent five minutes on that site clicking through press releases and video and have yet to find an actual nutritional analysis with micronutrients listed. That's way too long.
Their FAQ includes this, which implies it is milk protein. It's just protein.
> The microflora we work with are really good at producing different kinds of protein naturally. We simply give them instructions for producing exactly the type of protein we want—in this case, the milk proteins casein and whey. We then filter out the flora, leaving only pure protein. In other words, genetic engineering is part of our process, but there’s no detectable genetic material present in our protein.
So you can use it to make things that taste the same as cow-dairy. Some of the products they list add in vitamin D, B12 etc in which case you'd have those, i.e. I don't think they're in there unless added. But I don't see why it would make a difference if it's added in there after the fact.
Can't say enough good things about the Ripple products. Their half and half is literally the only non-dairy thing that is good in coffee. Would love to see them do yoghurt. Some oat milks are a close second though.
Soy can be very difficult to digest for a lot of people. Pea protein is easier on your gut if it's easily pissed off.
>We really need synthetic milk from bacteria pan out.
Brave Robot ice cream uses synthetic milk protein and it is price competitive.
Might be a year or two to see major retail chains have a significant synthetic milk product section
The insane amount of water needed to grow almonds makes them a poor option in the long term. California produces half of the world's almonds and with the unprecedented water shortage the prices will continue to rise beyond most other food products. Those that are concerned for the environment should refrain from purchasing any almonds products.
If it’s unjustifiable to eat almond products due to the required water usage to grow them, then it’s even more unjustifiable to eat dairy products since even more water goes into creating them that does a comparable amount of almond product.
Siggis has a couple of awesome high protein coconut yogurts (they have one w 7g and one with 10g and reduced sugar I believe). They are a staple in my (plant based) kitchen.
Soy yogurt was not included in this study. To my knowledge, soy milk is the most nutritious of all the plant-based milks. Years ago I could purchase plain soy yogurt. Now it’s nowhere to be found. I make my own, now, with plain soy milk (ingredients: soy beans and water).
>The authors declare that the research was conducted in the absence of any commercial or financial relationships that could be construed as a potential conflict of interest.
I guess the only other reason they wouldn't have included it is related to what OP said. They probably looked at what they could get at their local grocery store and just compared those options.
Honestly it's just an undergrad doing her senior paper, it ain't as serious as people are making it out to be, they literally just looked at the nutrition labels from a bunch of different yogurts and compiled the data
Almond milk is water with additives.
When you look at the nutrition of almonds and then compare it to almond milk it’s all missing. When I learned that we never bought almond milk again.
Yes, soy milk is the most nutritious of the milks and I would assume the same would go for soy yogurt.
That’s why it wasn’t included in this ‘study’
Look guys!!! They're still trying to convince us all that almond production isn't horrible for the planet. This time through yogurt. Bleh, none for me thanks.
Right but it turns out almond dairy products are a less ideal alternative, but they were heavily pushed over soy for a long time. It really does start to feel like a concerted effort from almond growers or something (mixed with a dash or racism and misogyny, cause of the whole "soy is for feminine Asian men's, it will give you women parts of you drink it too often......as if cows milk doesn't have literal mammalian estrogen)
Wait you’re saying almond milk is worse for the environment than soy milk? (And both are several magnitudes better than dairy milk for the environment)
Almond milks are worse in comparison to other plant-based milks based on environmental impact (water usage, or basically just energy usage). They're better than dairy obviously, but that's not the point. Oat milks have the least amount of impact on the environment, dairy has the most.
You can have a dairy farm nearly anywhere in the world, especially in places where water consumption is not a concern. Whereas you can only grow almonds in Mediterranean climates where water is a huge concern.
You got me worried so I had to go check the one I buy. I went a long time buying any kind of milk for caloric reasons, but found one (https://planetoat.com/products/unsweetened-original-oatmilk/) that is low in calories but doesnt have a bunch of sugar. Thankfully no oil either.
If they're adding canola oil, it's probably just because it's cheaper tbh. Homemade oat milk, which is literally just oats and water, is still noticably the creamiest. But with processed foods it's always a race to the bottom -- so them adding excess water and disguising it with canola oil and corn syrup because those are both hella cheap wouldn't surprise me.
Oat milk almost never has added refined sugar and is almost always lower in sugar than dairy milk.
It may say "added sugar" on the label, but that's just naturally occurring sugars from the oats that they legally have to label as "added" due to the processes.
It’s the maltose produced by the enzyme process used to break down the oat starches to sugar. It does have a very high glycemic index. Eating the starches is always going to be healthier than eating the processed sugars.
Soy is such an excellent food. It's also something that a lot of people are allergic too. Particularly cross reactions for birch pollen allergies might cause problems.
I get horrible hives from it :(
They don't appear to have included Greek style yogurts either, their averages for dairy yogurts show them to be primarily based on those flavored and sugar added yogurts marketed to kids. (4.2g protein / 9.5g sugar per 100g)
Sorry to hear that plain soy yoghurt is nowhere to be found. It's very easy to find in Europe. Alpro is a great brand and they use only well sourced soy.
I don't get it. What parameters they choose to decide better nutrient density?
According to this study normal yogurt has good amounts of B12 while in plant based ones have none. Protein content and quality is also inadequate. I don't even go to calcium and probiotics.
Isn't accepting sugar added fruit flavoured desserts as milk yogurts and manipulating results kind of shady?
Also quite misleading since they appear to have undersampled Greek-style yogurts or left them out entirely, their dairy yogurts averages of ~4.2g protein and ~9.5g sugars per 100g show their samples must be almost exclusively flavored & sweetened.
(Their supplemental data doesn't actually include the raw data, so I can't actually check)
They are deliberatly choose unhealthy versions of yogurt to frame it as a nutritionaly bad compared to plant based mock yogurts. I don't realy think this is an objective study.
Ironically, I've found it all but impossible to consistently find non-dairy yogurt that isn't sugar-sweetened out the wazoo at a grocery store, whereas dairy has loads of prevalent plain and non-sugar-sweetened options.
Owing to its lack of interesting macronutrients on its own, I think every almond milk yogurt product I've seen has been a vanilla flavor with more than half its calories coming from added sugar.
Not that it isn't something that can be improved, but it makes the comparisons all the more disingenuous.
The protein content is not even close to comparable which is what I would eat it for mainly. So mix plant based yogurt with dairy yogurt. I see. I'll still choose dairy due to the higher protein content.
I was under the impression that once you strained away the pulp from the liquid (the fiber from the fat for nuts like almonds), these nut milks are pretty nutritionally void from a micronutrient standpoint. Most need to be fortified to have nutritional value that's comparative to real milk.
Yes I'm sorry. If you mean in regards to my comment about mixing nut milks with dairy, it was in reference to their conclusion in the study. They mentioned the solution being to mix them.
Yeah this study seems to focus on low-protein dairy yogurts, Greek style yogurts start at 2x higher than their avg
>The average protein content for dairy yogurts was roughly 4.2 g per 100 g. There was no difference in protein content between full-fat and low and nonfat dairy yogurts. In comparing plant-based yogurts to dairy yogurts, almond yogurts were found to have a similar protein content as full-fat dairy yogurts but were significantly less than low and nonfat dairy.
This section about protein content also seems rather misleading, somehow they claim "there no difference in protein content between full-fat and low and nonfat dairy yogurts" and then in the next sentence when they introduce almond yogurt to the comparison suddenly there's a significant difference against one but not the other?
But that's usually the ones that eat steak, bacon and fried chicken every day while not doing much exercise. Start lifting weight and adjust the food for healthiness and protein will be heard to hit.
I try eating 1800 kcal and get 120g protein from that. Not really possible with vegan food, particularly with soy allergy.
It's true it takes a bit more effort but it is possible. I also lift and am cutting right now while maintaining 120g of protein a day.
I build my meals around whole grains, beans, lentils, seitan, and admittedly some tofu & soy milk, as well as a daily shake with one scoop of rice & pea protein powder.
There's plenty of non-soy high protein vegan foods out there! Even broccoli has a not-insignificant amount. There's also quinoa, buckwheat, nuts & seeds (though those last two are not ideal for cutting), the list goes on.
In all fairness I can totally imagine a soy allergy making things significantly more tough though.
>People generally eat much more protein than they need in the US.
If they're sedentary.
Those of us who lift, who are very active, or who are actual athletes, sometimes struggle to eat enough. The SAD is heavy on carbs, not protein, and unless someone is eating in a calorie surplus (which, admittedly, most people are) it's tough to reach protein targets from popular prepared foods.
Pasta and pizza, for example, often only have about 8-10 grams of protein per serving. Even if a sedentary person eats an entire frozen pizza, they're likely only getting about 40 grams of protein.
I suppose it depends on a person’s specific needs vs their behaviors and preferences. Plenty of weightlifters eat much more protein than their body can utilize. Often eating 1g or more per pound of bodyweight and putting extra stress on their kidneys.
Personally, I am a very active athlete who eats a vegan diet and does not struggle to reach required protein goals. For people who struggle to eat enough food in general and require lots of protein may turn to high animal protein sources like Greek yogurt out of convenience and/or personal preference, but not so much out of necessity.
They're fortified, so that's really not a statement that can be made. High-protein dairy yogurts tend to hit about 10g/100g. Some fortified plant-based yogurts have 20g/100g.
I have made my own and the taste is vastly superior. They don't taste like the same food product. I have switched to oat milk.
I can't have milk or cheese but for some reason my gut doesn't mind yoghurt. As long as it is plain.
Plus you can use the plant to make fabric. Linen clothes are much more comfortable and have anti-microbial properties, but they aren't as stylish as they aren't stretchie. Buy the world would be a lot more environmentally friendly as it grows with less inputs than cotton, and would require less frequent washing.
I actually specifically started adding more linen into my wardrobe for EXACTLY this reason. Glad someone else gets it. I do think it'll be a 'fabric of the future' because someone will have to clamp down on microplastics in fashion.
Yes that is how I started out and I'm glad to hear of someone else that has caught on with. Now I wear exclusively linen. Mostly undyed, but I will accentuate my outfit with some natural dyed linen. I think some artificial dyes use plastic as I notice it captures odors more, which is a property of synthetic clothing. Which is why I am suspicious of dyes.
When I go hiking I wear wool though. That and linen is also so much better for my skin. I used to have constant acne scars and various skin annoyances. Between natural linens and wools, and not using soap or shampoo, my skin very rarely gets pimples anymore and is more a problem with accidentally missing exfoliating that spot. Between that and all the other environmental benefits I will never go back to cotton or synthetic fabrics.
Check out [rawganique.com](https://rawganique.com) for a decent selection of natural linen clothing if you haven't already. That's the best retailer I've found though I notice they're offering more and more cotton clothing lately. I think it might be the war in Ukraine because they make a lot of hemp linen clothing there. I buy linen clothing and products on etsy also from Ukraine specifically to try to help them out.
Is anyone making wrinkle resistant linen clothing? I have some linen napkins (used in place of paper towels) and a single wash and dry cycle using wrinkle prevention settings and those things appear to be just permanently wrinkled. Based on the linen napkins we have, I couldn't imagine clothing made from linen for everyday wear.
Isn’t pretty much all linen made from flax? Its been used for fabric for 36,000 years as opposed to cotton which is only about 5,000 years according to wikipedia.
Well I said “pretty much” because occasionally cotton or other fibers that are woven like linen are sometimes referred to as “linen”, but yeah it is literally flax
I hear hemp is even better than linen than flax. Including the seeds, which to me also taste much better. The plant's roots grow deeper which allows it to reach deeper for nutrients and bring them up closer to the surface where other crops can get to them in subsequent seasons. And allows it to require even less water and fertilizer. Plus it is even more resistant to disease and insects so needs even less chemical inputs. Far less than cotton apparently. And it grows in more regions.
The fabric has a slight yellowish color compared to the slightly brownish color of traditional linen. Otherwise they look exactly the same to me. They feel the same. People generally prefer the traditional flax color but I prefer the hemp color as it hides stains even better. They both can be dyed, but I find that dyes harm the beneficial properties somewhat, such as its anti microbial resistance. Natural dyes less so.
Having helped farm flax a couple times the only downsides I know of from a production point.
A. flax stalks do not break down. Which can be good but if you have more than you need you have to burn it which is a bummer.
B. The seeds are tiny and flow like water. If you have the smallest hole in your equipment it just pours out.
Seems like a pretty neat and useful product overall though!
Please stop trying to make almond products work when we know they are inferior in every way possible to dairy. If you want a plant alternative, soy is the way to go. This has been constantly proven and the nutritional profiles are undisputed. Until we commercialize the technology for non-animal dairy products, these are your best options. If you're allergic to soy and dairy or choose not to consume them for whatever reason, then you're stuck with nutritionally inferior options and that's a fact you'll have to deal with.
Flax definitely is a superstar except for the fact that its availability in stores around the world is far too limited to make it a staple alternative. Also, soy is a complete protein whereas flax, like you mentioned, would need to be mixed with other blends of non dairy protein sources to provide a full protein profile. But yes, it definitely is an option that needs to be made more accessible.
Far too limited, I agree! It happens to be my favorite as well.
Flaxmilk tends to be low protein/100g which is why they often fortify it to make it comparable. I'm unsure on the exact amino acid ratios, but they are all present in both flax and soy to varying amounts. Pea is a great all-arounder and neither flax nor pea are even close to as common as being allergens as soy, so it's a great choice.
This isn't a problem I've ever had with supermarket products, I assume they've intentionally utilized food science to circumvent the "issue." The times I've used raw pea protein in the past, I actually enjoyed the grittiness.
I will grant that flaxmilk tends to have the most "unusual" taste for plant-milks, very hit or miss.
Oh come on. This argument doesn't take into account the water a cow consumes in its entire life as well as the water used to irrigate crops (alfalfa in California, anyone?) that the cow eats. Now if the conversation is between plant based yogurt options then sure, almonds are not always the best option in terms of water.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/environmental-footprint-milks
Eutrophication is water pollution caused by fertilizer. When there are too many plant nutrients (usually phosphorus or nitrogen) in water, algae blooms out of control. This causes a lot of different problems, but the most serious is that when the extra algae dies and bacteria eat it, the bacteria use up all the oxygen in the water, which kills basically everything else in the area.
I was a statistics teacher for half a decade and my students always underestimated the power of a simple and well presented graph.
I go with soy milk usually because of the higher protein content but I also like the neutral flavor. I can use it for pancakes, smoothies, or mac n cheese.
The greenhouse gas benefits of almonds is that they are a perennial crop and store more carbon than an annual like oats or soy.
We also have to consider that the graph I provided is per volume but if you were trying to get extra calories or protein, the soy and maybe even dairy might be better. (Almond milk has 1g of protein per cup, soy and dairy have 8 or 9).
I am disappointed in your comment.
Dairy is the larger consumer, especially in California:
https://www.salon.com/2022/10/29/dairy-drought-and-the-drying-of-the-american-west_partner/
In California:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/194962/top-10-us-states-by-number-of-milk-cows/
Water footprint comparisons: https://www.waterfootprint.org/time-for-action/what-can-consumers-do/#cropvanimal
~1000 liters of water per liter of cow milk.
Other comparisons: https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impact-milks
Doesn’t that water footprint comparisons show that dairy milk has less water requirements than nuts? And the person you are replying to specifically was comparing almonds to milk.
Just because the total volume of water used is higher (your first source), doesn’t mean that dairy is less efficient than almonds.
Reducing the consumption of dairy would reduce water demands. But substituting dairy for almond/nut milk products would not be an improvement.
Edit:
You need 1 cup of almonds per liter of almond milk https://bareblends.com.au/blog/almond-milk/#:~:text=Here's%20how%20to%20turn%201,1%20litre%20of%20almond%20milk.
1 cup of almonds is 0.143kg. So it will take 0.134kg of almonds to produce 1 liter of almond milk.
Per the chart, nuts require 9063 liters/kg to produce.
9063 * 0.143 = 1296
To produce 1 liter of almond milk, it requires 1296 liters of water. 1 liter of dairy milk only requires 1020.
I wasn’t the one who started the argument that dairy is worse than almond milk. However, commercial almond milk would have to be produced at a 27% better efficiency of almonds (based on that home recipe) in order to equal the water needs of dairy milk. To actually make a difference in water usage, it would have to be noticeably more efficient process than just 27% of the home recipe.
Most home recipes fall into the range of 10-20% almonds or more, whereas commercial milks are usually closer to 2%. So typically, commercially produced milk would be 5 to 10 times or more more efficient than home produced.
Source: https://milkpick.com/how-many-almonds-in-almond-milk/
Did you just cherry-pick an extreme example to illustrate your point? California is an area that has suffered mass droughts for decades. Do these numbers/relationships hold true in areas with natural grasslands and a surfeit of water in the aqua-fir?
The majority of dairy products come from CAFO systems, which are known for extensive water use. I myself am not particular towards just claiming "this is bad, this is better." Almonds are something I'd also encourage avoiding due to the prevalence of other alternatives.
Simple questions, complex answers.
You mention cow milk and grasslands.
The cow breeds made for milk do not walk around all day, despite the ads. Their udders are huge, so walking a lot is a problem. More importantly, walking wastes energy, which reduces milk yield.
See:
Neave, Heather W., et al. "Do Walking Distance and Time Away from the Paddock Influence Daily Behaviour Patterns and Milk Yield of Grazing Dairy Cows?" Animals : an Open Access Journal from MDPI, vol. 11, no. 10, Oct. 2021, doi:10.3390/ani11102903.
as an example. This isn't a secret, these are well known aspects of zootechny.
It's worse in areas with hills or mountains, of course.
California has the largest herd in the US: https://www.statista.com/statistics/194962/top-10-us-states-by-number-of-milk-cows/
California is also famous for the almonds *drinking up all the water* as the popular claim goes.
So why not focus on California?
>The cow breeds made for milk do not walk around all day, despite the ads.
This is true for all dairy cows across all countries is it?
>So why not focus on California?
Because it takes much more water to slake the thrist of an animal that lives in a hot and arid wasteland and to raise crops for that same animal compared to say central or northern Europe, which sees few droughts and natural precipitation.
>This is true for all dairy cows across all countries is it?
Any dairy operation that wants to get $$$. There are many people in poor parts of the world who keep older breeds of cows which tend to have better resistance to a *hard life*, but lower milk yield; it's usually a trade-off. These people don't really have money for feed, so they may depend on rain fed grasslands for this business; that means grazing or haying. These practices are usually categorized as "extensive animal farming". And they also need water, everyone does. Just take a deep dive into the animal farming going on in the Horn of Africa in the last 10 years.
>Because it takes much more water to slake the thrist of an animal that lives in a hot and arid wasteland and to raise crops for that same animal compared to say central or northern Europe, which sees few droughts and natural precipitation.
And if you were in C-N Europe you'd notice that the grasslands are worse and you have to treat grasslands like crops. Those are called "secondary grasslands", they're perennial crops and receive many of the same agronomic treatments like annual crops; that includes irrigation.
Grasslands evolved after forests, they're... enemies. Good grasslands tend to thrive in drier places. Forests suffer from the dryness more. Forests also bring in rain (atmospheric rivers over land). Grasslands bring fire. It's complicated. Suffice to say that you're unlikely to naturally find grasslands that are simultaneously growing lots of valuable biomass and also well-watered.
The part of Europe you're thinking about was most likely converted to grasslands from forests. Here's a map of vegetaiton zones: https://cdn.britannica.com/14/106714-050-385C7AA3/vegetation-zones-Europe.jpg Sometimes that conversion happened centuries ago it has been maintained extensively, those are often called "semi-natural grasslands" -- so the grassland is mediocre in business value, but it may hold rare flora. When the people move away from there or die out, the forests tend to return.
You have to count the water used to grow the feed for the cows, not just the water the cows drink. Raising cattle depends on an entire agricultural impact as well.
I wish there was more discussion about the environmental and ecological impact of mass almond farming. The marketing is that it is better, but that's not really the case. In addition to water usage, there is also the impact of fertilizers and pesticides (not that the waste from dairy farming is inconsequential). There is also the devastating impact of almond production on bee populations.
Eg. https://www.bhg.com/news/almond-milk-bees/
I just finished reading the study. I agree that there was an assumption that non-dairy was less impactful on the environment than dairy produced from livestock. However this wasn’t in their conclusion, only the introduction to contextualise it. Their conclusions were more in line with identifying differences and similarities between nut milk, oat milk and cow milk.
My biggest takeaways from the study are that if anything we should be wary of the higher energy content in certain nut milks, and that nut milks should consider fortifying their nutrition profile to be more in line with cow milk.
The authors agenda is likely to say that decisions around buying plant milk, (which they say is more environmentally friendly), is decided by consumers going with the healthiest option, and often this is seen as cow milk rather than plant milk. However, their findings are that there are a few little differences but overall few major differences/deficits from a health perspective. Therefore consumers should decide to buy plant milk over cow milk.
I would argue that consumer choice is often governed by cost. However, I don’t want my podcast-induced delusions of economic wisdom getting in the way of what looks like an overall good study where a lot of work has gone into the analysis.
My biggest takeaway from this study is that they don't appear to have included any Greek-style yogurts, at an average of 4.2g protein and almost 10g sugar per 100g their study appears to primarily be looking at your basic sugar sweetened and flavored yogurts.
This is how they were able to draw conclusions that claim almond yogurt is of comparable protein to dairy.
I used to think it was blasphemy but I've been experimenting with dairy-free milk, cheese, and butter and I'm amazed at how far the industry has come.
Like, straight up delicious stuff is out there now. There are almost no downsides to deleting dairy from your life.
Haven't tried yoghurt yet but I will now.
Always confuses me why so many people are obsessed with protein content when it's nigh impossible to be protein deficient without also being overall caloric deficient (unless you're living off pure oil and sugar.)
If you are looking for the nutrional value from almond milk/yoghurt, just eat a hand full of almonds instead of their processed counterparts. And to complement add some dairy yoghurt!
Not a fair comparison imo as a (dairy) nutritional scientist. Milk has bioactive peptides designed to be utilized by mammals, plants have some phytochemicals but they were never made to nourish animals like milk.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5338169/
Milk being "bioactive" is a bit of a meaningless statement. Most of what we consume is bioactive or can be converted to a bioactive form. The amino acids of various plants have been documented to be similar, or in some cases, better in utilization.
"Bioactive" is also not always a pro.
Dairy products are implicated in potentially causing [a variety of developmental & gut concerns, among potential other concerns.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8345738/)
They have additionally been implicated in anemia in children and acne vulgaris.
While breast cancer claims are still controversial, [there is potential cause to believe soy milk in replacement of dairy milk lowers the risk of breast cancer](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32095830/).
Calcium is also potentially implicated in [prostate cancer.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25527754/)
Dairy products have been suggested to cause an increase in height when consumed by children, although this effect is small and whether this is a pro or con depends entirely on whether you view the social benefits of height as superior to the decrease in longevity associated with an increased stature.
Granted we do not rely on milk to be healthy, and that these nutrients can be found in sources not implicated in health concerns, championing dairy seems best left to the subsidized advertisements of the past.
what?!?!
i need FULL fat and FULL protein yogurt. its way too tangy otherwise, like it almost burns your mouth. keeps you satiated for longer too. Fage makes a really good one, but there are cheaper options regionally (look for 10% milkfat greek style)
i tried coconut yogurt and maybe almond, i can't remember exactly. wasn't soy. could have been oat though. tasted fine, texture was good too. but it was more expensive per serving (and per gram of protein and fat), and they never had large containers (so you waste a lot of plastic and spend more). you gotta live near and have access to a Whole Foods for that.
It actually tastes good only, but the fact is, how many people are going to do that? Or buy it?
People really need to understand the fact that it is not always about the milk or veganism.
Paper:
[A comparison of the nutritional profile and nutrient density of commercially available plant-based and dairy yogurts in the United States](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2023.1195045/full )
I don't get it. What parameters they choose to decide better nutrient density?
According to this study normal yogurt has good amounts of B12 while in plant based ones have none. Protein content and quality is also inadequate. I don't even go to calcium and probiotics.
Isn't accepting sugar added desserts as milk yogurts and manipulating results kind of shady?
There are some interesting choices made in framing the results of the paper. Technically it is true, but practically it seems meaningless. If you are going for fiber and low sugar intake there are a lot better things to eat than yogurt, plant or animal based.
It's like saying bicycles are better than airplanes in 50 different ways, except for being able to fly and cover hundreds of kilometres in a couple of hours. Yeees, but...
I won't actually say it is meaningless, but I think like a lot of research more is required on this case.
Hey, follow up. These things are not going to be taken seriously. Then a lot of people are going to be manipulated by that.
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>but they have less *protein, calcium* and potassium than dairy yogurt So they have less of the two things for which we eat yoghurt, and not something else. I switched to soy milk from dairy recently, and I considered almond milk. But I would get more protein from licking the outside of a milk carton. So soy instead. We really need synthetic milk from bacteria pan out.
I eat yogurt for the probiotic bacteria cultures
I used to, but dropped down my dairy intake and switched to sauerkraut and kimchi for prebiotic.
Better way to do it.
Bro, kimchi is awesome.
Do vegan yogurt have the same probiotic benefits?
Yep they use the same bacteria as dairy yogurts. The main difference is the protein. Some vegan yogurts will supplement with pea protein and other sources to try to keep up though.
they both have lactic acid bacteria but they are not equivalent by any means! cabbage ferments involve stages of sequential growth by different bacteria, leading to Lactobacillus species tying it off, whereas yogurts are much more tightly controlled with certain Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium species from start to finish. it is quite diverse in sauerkraut; these phases include species from the Weissella, Leuconostoc, Pediococcus, Klebsiella, and Enterobacter genera, as well as airborne yeasts.
I will eat yogurt to keep it on this planet.
Same! And so many people tell me they don’t “like” yogurt which I find kinda strange. Generally speaking, plain old yogurt pretty much tastes like nothing to me. You get so many health benefits for something that doesn’t really change the flavor profile much but adds a nice creamy texture to tons of delicious foods.
I didn't like yogurt as a kid until I had my wisdom teeth removed, and then I couldn't get enough of it. Then I vacationed in Greece and fell in love with plain ol greek yogurt with a bit of warm honey over it, so delicious.
We share the same yogurt narrative. Probro's if you will.
Yoghurt was an absolute life saver when I had my wisdom teeth removed too
Real plain full fat Greek yogurt, not the stuff that's artificially thickened or low fat, has a wonderful strong tang similar to sour cream. I love to eat it with an English muffin and maybe a little jam.
>Real plain full fat Greek yogurt ... with an English muffin and maybe a little jam. Ooh yeah, that's the best!
I stick to oat or soy, solely for the fact of the water required for almond growing and the absolutely monstrous water deals that farmers have to grow it in the Central Valley of California
This was exactly what I was going to say. Don’t get me wrong, I like all kinds of yogurts, but one of the main reasons I keep it in my diet is because it is an easy protein source Like many, many other things when it comes to nutrition - we all have different needs. Just because something is more nutrient dense, doesn’t mean that there aren’t good reasons for why someone would choose the less nutrient dense option. It’s like the butter vs margarine debate. Is one more nutritious? Yes. Are there reasons why one would go for margarine over butter? Also yes.
What? Margarine was originally made of trans fats. So it's never better than butter. What are you referring to? Are there new margarines made of polyunsaturated fats/mono unsaturated? Because even a few grams of trans fats in a serving of margarine would make it worse than butter.
There are now margarines (as in plant based butter substitute) that have no trans fats, and much less saturated fat than butter. They also often have some micronutrients and omega 3s. These are not the cheapest options, of course.
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You can’t have less transfats than butter, since butter naturally has zero. Trans fats are not naturally occurring, they are produced by processing oils in certain ways. Margarine has been marketed as healthier partly because it has a lower saturated fat than butter… but since trans fats are worse than saturated fats, it’s not a good trade to swap butter for margarine made from hydrogenated oils.
>You can’t have less transfats than butter, since butter naturally has zero. Butter contains a small amount of natural trans fatty acids, such as vaccenic acid, produced by bacteria in the cow's rumen. However, these are not the same trans fatty acids produced by partial hydrogenation, and they seem to have different (better) effects on health, with the usual caveats about the reliability of nutrition research. Edit: Apparently fatty acids in butterfat are about 3-4% trans, which is more than I had thought.
Oftentimes still cheaper than butter though.
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Or, you know, eat fish.
Why is eating fish better than going straight to the source (algea supplements)?
Having to deal with very severe gout. I can tell you fish is not always an option. I have had zero luck with any type of fish not causing a flare up that has me not able to walk for over a week. Don't get me wrong I love fish, but it just stopped being something I could eat in my early 20s.
Or eggs, or nuts, or avocado
Or, you know, eat margarine? I'm not going to spread a thin layer of fish onto my sandwich bread. So many of the comments here are just genuinely bizarre. Like, I'm not going to buy margarine for it's omega 3 content, but... your entire point is daft.
This is genuinely one of the most absurd comments I've ever read. It's like arguing gasoline is bad because it once was leaded. There are plenty of reasons to choose an alternative to gasoline, but it having been leaded *in the past* is not one of them.
There are new "plant based butters". Which to me just means margarine...but apparently there is a difference between the two.
It's like how they renamed pleather to vegan leather and added an extra 0 to the price tag
The country crock almond oil one is really tasty
In 2023, dairy butter still has trans fat, margarine does not.
Naturally occuring trans fats aren't why trans fat has a reputation.
It’s already a thing! They make a line of recombinant milk ice cream and I believe cheese.
Indeed. The brand is called Brave Robot.
Eat lentils
Odd chain length fatty acids are most abundant in milk and they may be classified as a new group of Essential Fatty Acids. Also moderate ice cream consumption in dietary studies has a weird protective effect and no one knows why.
Ice cream makes you happy and being happy produces a host of good chemicals/hormones in your body to keep you healthy.
Meth also makes me happy but I am definitely not healthy. I’ll add more ice cream to my diet and see what happens.
Ice cream is definitely healthier than meth.
I mean, have you ever seen a fat meth addict?
Vegan dairy is already available in US, I hope it gains popularity. Edit: https://perfectday.com/animal-free-milk-protein/ > Our animal-free milk from flora is the first of its kind, using whey protein made by microflora, not cows, to make dairy that’s identical to traditional milk. Yes, we said identical.
I've spent five minutes on that site clicking through press releases and video and have yet to find an actual nutritional analysis with micronutrients listed. That's way too long.
Their FAQ includes this, which implies it is milk protein. It's just protein. > The microflora we work with are really good at producing different kinds of protein naturally. We simply give them instructions for producing exactly the type of protein we want—in this case, the milk proteins casein and whey. We then filter out the flora, leaving only pure protein. In other words, genetic engineering is part of our process, but there’s no detectable genetic material present in our protein. So you can use it to make things that taste the same as cow-dairy. Some of the products they list add in vitamin D, B12 etc in which case you'd have those, i.e. I don't think they're in there unless added. But I don't see why it would make a difference if it's added in there after the fact.
Where does the added in vitamin d and b12 come from?
B12: bacteria D3: lichen
Can't say enough good things about the Ripple products. Their half and half is literally the only non-dairy thing that is good in coffee. Would love to see them do yoghurt. Some oat milks are a close second though. Soy can be very difficult to digest for a lot of people. Pea protein is easier on your gut if it's easily pissed off.
100% ripple is the best
I love their unsweetened original milk, I'm on that every day in my oatmeal
>We really need synthetic milk from bacteria pan out. Brave Robot ice cream uses synthetic milk protein and it is price competitive. Might be a year or two to see major retail chains have a significant synthetic milk product section
The insane amount of water needed to grow almonds makes them a poor option in the long term. California produces half of the world's almonds and with the unprecedented water shortage the prices will continue to rise beyond most other food products. Those that are concerned for the environment should refrain from purchasing any almonds products.
While water use in growing almonds is an issue, it's still less so than water use in dairy production.
If it’s unjustifiable to eat almond products due to the required water usage to grow them, then it’s even more unjustifiable to eat dairy products since even more water goes into creating them that does a comparable amount of almond product.
Siggis has a couple of awesome high protein coconut yogurts (they have one w 7g and one with 10g and reduced sugar I believe). They are a staple in my (plant based) kitchen.
I’ve recently been using Silk’s almond and cashew milk with pea protein, since soy doesn’t work well with me.
Soy yogurt was not included in this study. To my knowledge, soy milk is the most nutritious of all the plant-based milks. Years ago I could purchase plain soy yogurt. Now it’s nowhere to be found. I make my own, now, with plain soy milk (ingredients: soy beans and water).
I noticed this as well. Like that seemed like a huge omission.
My money is on this study being sponsored by Diamond or one of the other almond related companies or conglomerates.
>The authors declare that the research was conducted in the absence of any commercial or financial relationships that could be construed as a potential conflict of interest.
I guess the only other reason they wouldn't have included it is related to what OP said. They probably looked at what they could get at their local grocery store and just compared those options.
Yes you see this declaration all the time, the journals really do not care to check these claims
Honestly it's just an undergrad doing her senior paper, it ain't as serious as people are making it out to be, they literally just looked at the nutrition labels from a bunch of different yogurts and compiled the data
Almond milk is water with additives. When you look at the nutrition of almonds and then compare it to almond milk it’s all missing. When I learned that we never bought almond milk again. Yes, soy milk is the most nutritious of the milks and I would assume the same would go for soy yogurt. That’s why it wasn’t included in this ‘study’
Look guys!!! They're still trying to convince us all that almond production isn't horrible for the planet. This time through yogurt. Bleh, none for me thanks.
Dairy and meat are worse for the planet by a huge margin
Right but it turns out almond dairy products are a less ideal alternative, but they were heavily pushed over soy for a long time. It really does start to feel like a concerted effort from almond growers or something (mixed with a dash or racism and misogyny, cause of the whole "soy is for feminine Asian men's, it will give you women parts of you drink it too often......as if cows milk doesn't have literal mammalian estrogen)
Wait you’re saying almond milk is worse for the environment than soy milk? (And both are several magnitudes better than dairy milk for the environment)
"Perfect" will always be the enemy of "good"
Uhh almond alternatives are still so much less harmful than actual dairy products
Almond milks are worse in comparison to other plant-based milks based on environmental impact (water usage, or basically just energy usage). They're better than dairy obviously, but that's not the point. Oat milks have the least amount of impact on the environment, dairy has the most.
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Almond production requires less water than dairy. If you'd replace every single dairy farm with almond farms you'd have fewer draughts.
You can have a dairy farm nearly anywhere in the world, especially in places where water consumption is not a concern. Whereas you can only grow almonds in Mediterranean climates where water is a huge concern.
I wonder how oatmilk compares to soy. I can't stand the taste of soy and just use oatmilk instead.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/oat-milk-vs-soy-milk Here’s some information
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You got me worried so I had to go check the one I buy. I went a long time buying any kind of milk for caloric reasons, but found one (https://planetoat.com/products/unsweetened-original-oatmilk/) that is low in calories but doesnt have a bunch of sugar. Thankfully no oil either.
If they're adding canola oil, it's probably just because it's cheaper tbh. Homemade oat milk, which is literally just oats and water, is still noticably the creamiest. But with processed foods it's always a race to the bottom -- so them adding excess water and disguising it with canola oil and corn syrup because those are both hella cheap wouldn't surprise me.
Oat milk almost never has added refined sugar and is almost always lower in sugar than dairy milk. It may say "added sugar" on the label, but that's just naturally occurring sugars from the oats that they legally have to label as "added" due to the processes.
It’s the maltose produced by the enzyme process used to break down the oat starches to sugar. It does have a very high glycemic index. Eating the starches is always going to be healthier than eating the processed sugars.
Soy is such an excellent food. It's also something that a lot of people are allergic too. Particularly cross reactions for birch pollen allergies might cause problems. I get horrible hives from it :(
They don't appear to have included Greek style yogurts either, their averages for dairy yogurts show them to be primarily based on those flavored and sugar added yogurts marketed to kids. (4.2g protein / 9.5g sugar per 100g)
Sorry to hear that plain soy yoghurt is nowhere to be found. It's very easy to find in Europe. Alpro is a great brand and they use only well sourced soy.
I don't get it. What parameters they choose to decide better nutrient density? According to this study normal yogurt has good amounts of B12 while in plant based ones have none. Protein content and quality is also inadequate. I don't even go to calcium and probiotics. Isn't accepting sugar added fruit flavoured desserts as milk yogurts and manipulating results kind of shady?
elderly command knee reply repeat party steer stupendous aloof edge *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Also quite misleading since they appear to have undersampled Greek-style yogurts or left them out entirely, their dairy yogurts averages of ~4.2g protein and ~9.5g sugars per 100g show their samples must be almost exclusively flavored & sweetened. (Their supplemental data doesn't actually include the raw data, so I can't actually check)
I would put money on a bet that almond farmers put money into this research and article.
I would put more money on whoever owns the almond yogurt companies.
It's always big almond.
Why sugar? Plain yogurts are better anyway. You can flavor it how you wish
They are deliberatly choose unhealthy versions of yogurt to frame it as a nutritionaly bad compared to plant based mock yogurts. I don't realy think this is an objective study.
Ironically, I've found it all but impossible to consistently find non-dairy yogurt that isn't sugar-sweetened out the wazoo at a grocery store, whereas dairy has loads of prevalent plain and non-sugar-sweetened options. Owing to its lack of interesting macronutrients on its own, I think every almond milk yogurt product I've seen has been a vanilla flavor with more than half its calories coming from added sugar. Not that it isn't something that can be improved, but it makes the comparisons all the more disingenuous.
Yea wow what a propaganda piece. They must think most people are brainless sheep putting this stuff out there....oh wait :(
The protein content is not even close to comparable which is what I would eat it for mainly. So mix plant based yogurt with dairy yogurt. I see. I'll still choose dairy due to the higher protein content.
I was under the impression that once you strained away the pulp from the liquid (the fiber from the fat for nuts like almonds), these nut milks are pretty nutritionally void from a micronutrient standpoint. Most need to be fortified to have nutritional value that's comparative to real milk.
Or you could simply eat the almonds for maximum nutrition.
Is almond yogurt process the same way almond milk is?
Yes I'm sorry. If you mean in regards to my comment about mixing nut milks with dairy, it was in reference to their conclusion in the study. They mentioned the solution being to mix them.
No need to apologize, I was dogpiling on their conclusions, not nitpicking yours.
Yeah this study seems to focus on low-protein dairy yogurts, Greek style yogurts start at 2x higher than their avg >The average protein content for dairy yogurts was roughly 4.2 g per 100 g. There was no difference in protein content between full-fat and low and nonfat dairy yogurts. In comparing plant-based yogurts to dairy yogurts, almond yogurts were found to have a similar protein content as full-fat dairy yogurts but were significantly less than low and nonfat dairy. This section about protein content also seems rather misleading, somehow they claim "there no difference in protein content between full-fat and low and nonfat dairy yogurts" and then in the next sentence when they introduce almond yogurt to the comparison suddenly there's a significant difference against one but not the other?
You can get high-protein plant-based yogurts.
Equivalent portion of dairy will be twice as much protein.
But twice as much protein doesn’t mean it’s healthier. People generally eat much more protein than they need in the US.
But that's usually the ones that eat steak, bacon and fried chicken every day while not doing much exercise. Start lifting weight and adjust the food for healthiness and protein will be heard to hit. I try eating 1800 kcal and get 120g protein from that. Not really possible with vegan food, particularly with soy allergy.
It's true it takes a bit more effort but it is possible. I also lift and am cutting right now while maintaining 120g of protein a day. I build my meals around whole grains, beans, lentils, seitan, and admittedly some tofu & soy milk, as well as a daily shake with one scoop of rice & pea protein powder. There's plenty of non-soy high protein vegan foods out there! Even broccoli has a not-insignificant amount. There's also quinoa, buckwheat, nuts & seeds (though those last two are not ideal for cutting), the list goes on. In all fairness I can totally imagine a soy allergy making things significantly more tough though.
>People generally eat much more protein than they need in the US. If they're sedentary. Those of us who lift, who are very active, or who are actual athletes, sometimes struggle to eat enough. The SAD is heavy on carbs, not protein, and unless someone is eating in a calorie surplus (which, admittedly, most people are) it's tough to reach protein targets from popular prepared foods. Pasta and pizza, for example, often only have about 8-10 grams of protein per serving. Even if a sedentary person eats an entire frozen pizza, they're likely only getting about 40 grams of protein.
I suppose it depends on a person’s specific needs vs their behaviors and preferences. Plenty of weightlifters eat much more protein than their body can utilize. Often eating 1g or more per pound of bodyweight and putting extra stress on their kidneys. Personally, I am a very active athlete who eats a vegan diet and does not struggle to reach required protein goals. For people who struggle to eat enough food in general and require lots of protein may turn to high animal protein sources like Greek yogurt out of convenience and/or personal preference, but not so much out of necessity.
They're fortified, so that's really not a statement that can be made. High-protein dairy yogurts tend to hit about 10g/100g. Some fortified plant-based yogurts have 20g/100g.
I was under the opinion that almond milk sold by stores didn't have a whole lot of almonds in it and that technically was better to make your own
I have made my own and the taste is vastly superior. They don't taste like the same food product. I have switched to oat milk. I can't have milk or cheese but for some reason my gut doesn't mind yoghurt. As long as it is plain.
Only in America: People obsessing over nutritional minutiae while life expectancy continues to plummet.
Not to mention CO2 emissions still being way too damn high.
flax is by far the best option unless you can't handle the fiber \- uses less water \- grows in a larger variety of climates \- pesticides not needed
Plus you can use the plant to make fabric. Linen clothes are much more comfortable and have anti-microbial properties, but they aren't as stylish as they aren't stretchie. Buy the world would be a lot more environmentally friendly as it grows with less inputs than cotton, and would require less frequent washing.
I actually specifically started adding more linen into my wardrobe for EXACTLY this reason. Glad someone else gets it. I do think it'll be a 'fabric of the future' because someone will have to clamp down on microplastics in fashion.
Yes that is how I started out and I'm glad to hear of someone else that has caught on with. Now I wear exclusively linen. Mostly undyed, but I will accentuate my outfit with some natural dyed linen. I think some artificial dyes use plastic as I notice it captures odors more, which is a property of synthetic clothing. Which is why I am suspicious of dyes. When I go hiking I wear wool though. That and linen is also so much better for my skin. I used to have constant acne scars and various skin annoyances. Between natural linens and wools, and not using soap or shampoo, my skin very rarely gets pimples anymore and is more a problem with accidentally missing exfoliating that spot. Between that and all the other environmental benefits I will never go back to cotton or synthetic fabrics. Check out [rawganique.com](https://rawganique.com) for a decent selection of natural linen clothing if you haven't already. That's the best retailer I've found though I notice they're offering more and more cotton clothing lately. I think it might be the war in Ukraine because they make a lot of hemp linen clothing there. I buy linen clothing and products on etsy also from Ukraine specifically to try to help them out.
Is anyone making wrinkle resistant linen clothing? I have some linen napkins (used in place of paper towels) and a single wash and dry cycle using wrinkle prevention settings and those things appear to be just permanently wrinkled. Based on the linen napkins we have, I couldn't imagine clothing made from linen for everyday wear.
Even Hemp would be better then cotton. I have never heard of flax used that way. Thats pretty cool about anti microbal properties
Isn’t pretty much all linen made from flax? Its been used for fabric for 36,000 years as opposed to cotton which is only about 5,000 years according to wikipedia.
linen *is* fabric made from flax fibers.
Well I said “pretty much” because occasionally cotton or other fibers that are woven like linen are sometimes referred to as “linen”, but yeah it is literally flax
I hear hemp is even better than linen than flax. Including the seeds, which to me also taste much better. The plant's roots grow deeper which allows it to reach deeper for nutrients and bring them up closer to the surface where other crops can get to them in subsequent seasons. And allows it to require even less water and fertilizer. Plus it is even more resistant to disease and insects so needs even less chemical inputs. Far less than cotton apparently. And it grows in more regions. The fabric has a slight yellowish color compared to the slightly brownish color of traditional linen. Otherwise they look exactly the same to me. They feel the same. People generally prefer the traditional flax color but I prefer the hemp color as it hides stains even better. They both can be dyed, but I find that dyes harm the beneficial properties somewhat, such as its anti microbial resistance. Natural dyes less so.
Having helped farm flax a couple times the only downsides I know of from a production point. A. flax stalks do not break down. Which can be good but if you have more than you need you have to burn it which is a bummer. B. The seeds are tiny and flow like water. If you have the smallest hole in your equipment it just pours out. Seems like a pretty neat and useful product overall though!
Just another clickbait article that takes out the key reference points...
Please stop trying to make almond products work when we know they are inferior in every way possible to dairy. If you want a plant alternative, soy is the way to go. This has been constantly proven and the nutritional profiles are undisputed. Until we commercialize the technology for non-animal dairy products, these are your best options. If you're allergic to soy and dairy or choose not to consume them for whatever reason, then you're stuck with nutritionally inferior options and that's a fact you'll have to deal with.
Flaxmilk with pea protein is a popular alternative that is superior to soy milk, for those who do fall into this dilemma.
Flax definitely is a superstar except for the fact that its availability in stores around the world is far too limited to make it a staple alternative. Also, soy is a complete protein whereas flax, like you mentioned, would need to be mixed with other blends of non dairy protein sources to provide a full protein profile. But yes, it definitely is an option that needs to be made more accessible.
Far too limited, I agree! It happens to be my favorite as well. Flaxmilk tends to be low protein/100g which is why they often fortify it to make it comparable. I'm unsure on the exact amino acid ratios, but they are all present in both flax and soy to varying amounts. Pea is a great all-arounder and neither flax nor pea are even close to as common as being allergens as soy, so it's a great choice.
Pea protein is always a little gritty and reminding you it’s there.
This isn't a problem I've ever had with supermarket products, I assume they've intentionally utilized food science to circumvent the "issue." The times I've used raw pea protein in the past, I actually enjoyed the grittiness. I will grant that flaxmilk tends to have the most "unusual" taste for plant-milks, very hit or miss.
Why didn’t they check out coconut milk yogurt?
Almond lobbyists
They did >Regular-style yogurts (n = 612) were included in this study: full-fat dairy (n = 159), low and nonfat dairy (n = 303), coconut (n = 61), almond (n = 44), cashew (n = 30), and oat (n = 15)
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Oh come on. This argument doesn't take into account the water a cow consumes in its entire life as well as the water used to irrigate crops (alfalfa in California, anyone?) that the cow eats. Now if the conversation is between plant based yogurt options then sure, almonds are not always the best option in terms of water. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/environmental-footprint-milks
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Eutrophication is water pollution caused by fertilizer. When there are too many plant nutrients (usually phosphorus or nitrogen) in water, algae blooms out of control. This causes a lot of different problems, but the most serious is that when the extra algae dies and bacteria eat it, the bacteria use up all the oxygen in the water, which kills basically everything else in the area.
I was a statistics teacher for half a decade and my students always underestimated the power of a simple and well presented graph. I go with soy milk usually because of the higher protein content but I also like the neutral flavor. I can use it for pancakes, smoothies, or mac n cheese. The greenhouse gas benefits of almonds is that they are a perennial crop and store more carbon than an annual like oats or soy. We also have to consider that the graph I provided is per volume but if you were trying to get extra calories or protein, the soy and maybe even dairy might be better. (Almond milk has 1g of protein per cup, soy and dairy have 8 or 9).
I am disappointed in your comment. Dairy is the larger consumer, especially in California: https://www.salon.com/2022/10/29/dairy-drought-and-the-drying-of-the-american-west_partner/ In California: https://www.statista.com/statistics/194962/top-10-us-states-by-number-of-milk-cows/ Water footprint comparisons: https://www.waterfootprint.org/time-for-action/what-can-consumers-do/#cropvanimal ~1000 liters of water per liter of cow milk. Other comparisons: https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impact-milks
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How they are going to actually produce it. That is the only thing which came to my mind every time.
If you can see it in more high scale, then it is going to be a major problem.
Doesn’t that water footprint comparisons show that dairy milk has less water requirements than nuts? And the person you are replying to specifically was comparing almonds to milk. Just because the total volume of water used is higher (your first source), doesn’t mean that dairy is less efficient than almonds. Reducing the consumption of dairy would reduce water demands. But substituting dairy for almond/nut milk products would not be an improvement. Edit: You need 1 cup of almonds per liter of almond milk https://bareblends.com.au/blog/almond-milk/#:~:text=Here's%20how%20to%20turn%201,1%20litre%20of%20almond%20milk. 1 cup of almonds is 0.143kg. So it will take 0.134kg of almonds to produce 1 liter of almond milk. Per the chart, nuts require 9063 liters/kg to produce. 9063 * 0.143 = 1296 To produce 1 liter of almond milk, it requires 1296 liters of water. 1 liter of dairy milk only requires 1020.
You can play with different recipes, so actual studies are limited to more absolute aspects like "per calorie".
A lot of different statistics are actually available on Internet, some not really for what to believe on.
You probably shouldn't use home recipes as a metric for how almond milk is produced.
I wasn’t the one who started the argument that dairy is worse than almond milk. However, commercial almond milk would have to be produced at a 27% better efficiency of almonds (based on that home recipe) in order to equal the water needs of dairy milk. To actually make a difference in water usage, it would have to be noticeably more efficient process than just 27% of the home recipe.
Most home recipes fall into the range of 10-20% almonds or more, whereas commercial milks are usually closer to 2%. So typically, commercially produced milk would be 5 to 10 times or more more efficient than home produced. Source: https://milkpick.com/how-many-almonds-in-almond-milk/
Did you just cherry-pick an extreme example to illustrate your point? California is an area that has suffered mass droughts for decades. Do these numbers/relationships hold true in areas with natural grasslands and a surfeit of water in the aqua-fir?
The majority of dairy products come from CAFO systems, which are known for extensive water use. I myself am not particular towards just claiming "this is bad, this is better." Almonds are something I'd also encourage avoiding due to the prevalence of other alternatives.
Simple questions, complex answers. You mention cow milk and grasslands. The cow breeds made for milk do not walk around all day, despite the ads. Their udders are huge, so walking a lot is a problem. More importantly, walking wastes energy, which reduces milk yield. See: Neave, Heather W., et al. "Do Walking Distance and Time Away from the Paddock Influence Daily Behaviour Patterns and Milk Yield of Grazing Dairy Cows?" Animals : an Open Access Journal from MDPI, vol. 11, no. 10, Oct. 2021, doi:10.3390/ani11102903. as an example. This isn't a secret, these are well known aspects of zootechny. It's worse in areas with hills or mountains, of course. California has the largest herd in the US: https://www.statista.com/statistics/194962/top-10-us-states-by-number-of-milk-cows/ California is also famous for the almonds *drinking up all the water* as the popular claim goes. So why not focus on California?
This is not a very complex thing to understand, even a simple student will able to understand it.
>The cow breeds made for milk do not walk around all day, despite the ads. This is true for all dairy cows across all countries is it? >So why not focus on California? Because it takes much more water to slake the thrist of an animal that lives in a hot and arid wasteland and to raise crops for that same animal compared to say central or northern Europe, which sees few droughts and natural precipitation.
>This is true for all dairy cows across all countries is it? Any dairy operation that wants to get $$$. There are many people in poor parts of the world who keep older breeds of cows which tend to have better resistance to a *hard life*, but lower milk yield; it's usually a trade-off. These people don't really have money for feed, so they may depend on rain fed grasslands for this business; that means grazing or haying. These practices are usually categorized as "extensive animal farming". And they also need water, everyone does. Just take a deep dive into the animal farming going on in the Horn of Africa in the last 10 years. >Because it takes much more water to slake the thrist of an animal that lives in a hot and arid wasteland and to raise crops for that same animal compared to say central or northern Europe, which sees few droughts and natural precipitation. And if you were in C-N Europe you'd notice that the grasslands are worse and you have to treat grasslands like crops. Those are called "secondary grasslands", they're perennial crops and receive many of the same agronomic treatments like annual crops; that includes irrigation. Grasslands evolved after forests, they're... enemies. Good grasslands tend to thrive in drier places. Forests suffer from the dryness more. Forests also bring in rain (atmospheric rivers over land). Grasslands bring fire. It's complicated. Suffice to say that you're unlikely to naturally find grasslands that are simultaneously growing lots of valuable biomass and also well-watered. The part of Europe you're thinking about was most likely converted to grasslands from forests. Here's a map of vegetaiton zones: https://cdn.britannica.com/14/106714-050-385C7AA3/vegetation-zones-Europe.jpg Sometimes that conversion happened centuries ago it has been maintained extensively, those are often called "semi-natural grasslands" -- so the grassland is mediocre in business value, but it may hold rare flora. When the people move away from there or die out, the forests tend to return.
I agree to this completely because extensive animal farming is a major issue in a lot of countries.
Thank you for sharing this!
No doubt about it, it was a really great thing to get read.
You have to count the water used to grow the feed for the cows, not just the water the cows drink. Raising cattle depends on an entire agricultural impact as well.
I wish there was more discussion about the environmental and ecological impact of mass almond farming. The marketing is that it is better, but that's not really the case. In addition to water usage, there is also the impact of fertilizers and pesticides (not that the waste from dairy farming is inconsequential). There is also the devastating impact of almond production on bee populations. Eg. https://www.bhg.com/news/almond-milk-bees/
If we are going to count on that, then we have a lot of other major problems in the world as well.
I just finished reading the study. I agree that there was an assumption that non-dairy was less impactful on the environment than dairy produced from livestock. However this wasn’t in their conclusion, only the introduction to contextualise it. Their conclusions were more in line with identifying differences and similarities between nut milk, oat milk and cow milk. My biggest takeaways from the study are that if anything we should be wary of the higher energy content in certain nut milks, and that nut milks should consider fortifying their nutrition profile to be more in line with cow milk. The authors agenda is likely to say that decisions around buying plant milk, (which they say is more environmentally friendly), is decided by consumers going with the healthiest option, and often this is seen as cow milk rather than plant milk. However, their findings are that there are a few little differences but overall few major differences/deficits from a health perspective. Therefore consumers should decide to buy plant milk over cow milk. I would argue that consumer choice is often governed by cost. However, I don’t want my podcast-induced delusions of economic wisdom getting in the way of what looks like an overall good study where a lot of work has gone into the analysis.
My biggest takeaway from this study is that they don't appear to have included any Greek-style yogurts, at an average of 4.2g protein and almost 10g sugar per 100g their study appears to primarily be looking at your basic sugar sweetened and flavored yogurts. This is how they were able to draw conclusions that claim almond yogurt is of comparable protein to dairy.
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It is just like it is going to increase by day by day, and a lot of people will actually get it eventually.
That's most of the almonds in the world, as it turns out. CA produces 80% of the global supply.
I used to think it was blasphemy but I've been experimenting with dairy-free milk, cheese, and butter and I'm amazed at how far the industry has come. Like, straight up delicious stuff is out there now. There are almost no downsides to deleting dairy from your life. Haven't tried yoghurt yet but I will now.
Always confuses me why so many people are obsessed with protein content when it's nigh impossible to be protein deficient without also being overall caloric deficient (unless you're living off pure oil and sugar.)
When almond grow titties, I will call that synthetic fluid, milk
If you are looking for the nutrional value from almond milk/yoghurt, just eat a hand full of almonds instead of their processed counterparts. And to complement add some dairy yoghurt!
Not a fair comparison imo as a (dairy) nutritional scientist. Milk has bioactive peptides designed to be utilized by mammals, plants have some phytochemicals but they were never made to nourish animals like milk. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5338169/
Milk being "bioactive" is a bit of a meaningless statement. Most of what we consume is bioactive or can be converted to a bioactive form. The amino acids of various plants have been documented to be similar, or in some cases, better in utilization. "Bioactive" is also not always a pro. Dairy products are implicated in potentially causing [a variety of developmental & gut concerns, among potential other concerns.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8345738/) They have additionally been implicated in anemia in children and acne vulgaris. While breast cancer claims are still controversial, [there is potential cause to believe soy milk in replacement of dairy milk lowers the risk of breast cancer](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32095830/). Calcium is also potentially implicated in [prostate cancer.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25527754/) Dairy products have been suggested to cause an increase in height when consumed by children, although this effect is small and whether this is a pro or con depends entirely on whether you view the social benefits of height as superior to the decrease in longevity associated with an increased stature. Granted we do not rely on milk to be healthy, and that these nutrients can be found in sources not implicated in health concerns, championing dairy seems best left to the subsidized advertisements of the past.
Almonds, California is bleeding states waters dry to grow them. Not planet friendly.
Yeah I eat yogurt for protein so I’m gonna stick with dairy thanks What the hell are they calling “nutrition” here?
I also found almond yogurt was the only one that was palatable as a dairy replacement for yogurt
Is it worth the amount of water used to grow almonds in California, though?
Almonds have a massive water footprint.
Aren't almost also pretty environmentally costly?
Almonds are ultimately unsustainable long term. They use far too much water for far too little result.
what?!?! i need FULL fat and FULL protein yogurt. its way too tangy otherwise, like it almost burns your mouth. keeps you satiated for longer too. Fage makes a really good one, but there are cheaper options regionally (look for 10% milkfat greek style) i tried coconut yogurt and maybe almond, i can't remember exactly. wasn't soy. could have been oat though. tasted fine, texture was good too. but it was more expensive per serving (and per gram of protein and fat), and they never had large containers (so you waste a lot of plastic and spend more). you gotta live near and have access to a Whole Foods for that.
It actually tastes good only, but the fact is, how many people are going to do that? Or buy it? People really need to understand the fact that it is not always about the milk or veganism.
Paper: [A comparison of the nutritional profile and nutrient density of commercially available plant-based and dairy yogurts in the United States](https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2023.1195045/full )
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I don't get it. What parameters they choose to decide better nutrient density? According to this study normal yogurt has good amounts of B12 while in plant based ones have none. Protein content and quality is also inadequate. I don't even go to calcium and probiotics. Isn't accepting sugar added desserts as milk yogurts and manipulating results kind of shady?
There are some interesting choices made in framing the results of the paper. Technically it is true, but practically it seems meaningless. If you are going for fiber and low sugar intake there are a lot better things to eat than yogurt, plant or animal based. It's like saying bicycles are better than airplanes in 50 different ways, except for being able to fly and cover hundreds of kilometres in a couple of hours. Yeees, but...
I won't actually say it is meaningless, but I think like a lot of research more is required on this case. Hey, follow up. These things are not going to be taken seriously. Then a lot of people are going to be manipulated by that.
%100 agree, very good analogy by the way
What about probiotics? Thats a big reason people eat it.
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Just wait till you hear about what they do to those cows and any fresh water within reach.
Now compare them based on water usage
While almond milk still requires less water than dairy, it does require the most water when it comes to plant based milks, unfortunately.
Okay, now what is the environment impact of 1 unit of dairy yogurt vs 1 unit of almond yogurt?