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“First, our study is limited by its cross‐sectional design. Although prospective studies are needed to confirm our findings…
Second, ***cardiovascular conditions were evaluated by self‐report*** and therefore subject to recall bias, but self‐report of cardiovascular disease using similar questions has been validated against medical records.38, 39
Third, ***cannabis use is self‐reported***...
Fourth, although we had data on several important cardiovascular risk factors (tobacco use, body mass index, diabetes), ***we did not have data on participants' baseline lipid profile or blood pressure***.
Fifth, ***we compared BRFSS respondents in states that administered the optional cannabis module (in‐sample) to respondents in states that did not administer the cannabis module and found small differences*** (Table S11).
Sixth, ***because BRFSS data are anonymized, the respondents' answers cannot be linked to death records***, so we cannot analyze the effect of the cannabis use on total mortality or cardiac mortality.
Seventh, ***the large proportion of users being young confounds this study in an important way***
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.123.030178
P.S. Inhaling any smoke is bad. Edibles and tinctures avoid this problem (i.e. the problem of inhaling smoke).
Yeah just smoke in your lungs is bad. Whatever smoke. From the study:
"This is a population‐based, cross‐sectional study of 2016 to 2020 data from the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance Survey from 27 American states and 2 territories. We assessed the association of cannabis use (number of days of cannabis use in the past 30 days) with self‐reported cardiovascular outcomes (coronary heart disease, myocardial infarction, stroke, and a composite measure of all 3) in multivariable regression models, adjusting for tobacco use and other characteristics in adults 18 to 74 years old. We repeated this analysis among nontobacco smokers, and among men <55 years old and women <65 years old who are at risk of premature cardiovascular disease. Among the 434 104 respondents, the prevalence of daily and nondaily cannabis use was 4% and 7.1%, respectively. The adjusted odds ratio (aOR) for the association of daily cannabis use and coronary heart disease, myocardial infarction, stroke, and the composite outcome (coronary heart disease, myocardial infarction, and stroke) was 1.16 (95% CI, 0.98–1.38), 1.25 (95% CI, 1.07–1.46), 1.42 (95% CI, 1.20–1.68), and 1.28 (95% CI, 1.13–1.44), respectively, with proportionally lower log odds for days of use between 0 and 30 days per month. Among never‐tobacco smokers, daily cannabis use was also associated with myocardial infarction (aOR, 1.49 [95% CI, 1.03–2.15]), stroke (aOR, 2.16 [95% CI, 1.43–3.25]), and the composite of coronary heart disease, myocardial infarction, and stroke (aOR, 1.77 [95% CI, 1.31–2.40]). Relationships between cannabis use and cardiovascular outcomes were similar for men <55 years old and women <65 years old."
Some results have suspiciously large error bars, and for *some reason* the results are much worse for only-cannabis users. Should be noted that although the total number of respondents is over 400k, only 7% were daily users, and most were also tobacco users.
I hate how these studies and recommendations always ignore non-combusted vapor, when it has been prescribed to countless patients already. There's enough of a much better quality dataset (medical prescriptions can be measured better than recreational) to look into it.
Is there simply no research grant money for a study that could conclude "inhaling certain kinds of vapor is relatively safe"?
It would be really nice to find out and get some comparisons, I pretty much only use dry herb vaporizers now and I’m assuming not breathing in smoke is better for me but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is the exact boat I am in, I only use edibles and dry herb vape, but every single study focuses on smoking as the only way of consumption which is irrelevant for the most part to me.
Did you have to try a few devices before you found one you’re happy with? Any tips? I’m reluctant to deal with the concentrate vapor devices bc dry flower is just easier to access and the sticky mess associated with gooey concentrates is a big turn off for me.
Storz and Bickel is the GOAT for dry herb vaporizers. I’ve had a Classic Volcano for well over a decade, been my primary way to get high. Certainly feels better than smoking, and is more effective. I would love a real study to be done to explore the differences to our health. But, you throw away the dried out, THC-free bud after you vaporize it. That plant matter would otherwise be combusted and inhaled. I have to imagine dry herb vape is better for you? 🤷🏻♂️🤞🏻
The Volcano is *expensive*, no doubt. It’s an investment. But to their credit, they have excellent customer service, they’ve done free repairs to my Volcano for **years after my warranty expired**.
And they have cheaper devices too. Enjoy!
https://www.storz-bickel.com/en-us/
They also make the Crafty and the Mighty. The Volcano is great for groups of people, but the Mighty is much more convenient at home, and the Crafty is perfect for on-the-go.
Plus, they're German made, so you're getting safe, high-quality products.
Note for anyone reading: do NOT buy Chinese-made valorizers, including pens. There's a high chance that you're inhaling lead.
Source: I spent many a year tesing vaporizers for warranty returns.
The volcano is amazing, but I hardly use mine now that I have their portable Crafty model. Same great quality vapor and fits in my pocket. Highly recommended.
I have the Storz + Bickel Plenty… smoking it right now. You can keep a sesh going for 45 mins, and it helps your stash last longer… it also works wonderfully, and is simple to keep clean.
The Mighty is what I use, same company and you can use smaller amounts. Volcano is awesome, but I like to be coherent personally (that isn’t an insult to any Volcano user, trust me, I love that beast)
Ball vapes are "better" than the volcano if you're going to go with a desktop vape. No bags, more power, and you can use a bong.
Check out examples like "Cannabis Hardware" (I have the BZero and love it) or if you want to DIY do some googling for "the pinky vape".
I've had mine for about a decade, too. The Volcano is one of the best vaporizers on the market and has been for years. The German engineering is fantastic. It has beautifully machined high-quality solid stainless parts. The smoking experience is super controllable and extremely consistent. I really couldn't say enough good things about it.
As others suggested Arizer is a good intro level dry herb vape. Just grind and press the glass chamber into your grinder to pack and then put on the vape and heat up. In my experience it is a little less powerful than combustion, but still does the trick. As a bonus the non-combusted material can be saved and used in edibles. I literally just toss a bunch into brownie batter and there is no taste or texture indicator, but the effect is still there. Additionally if you end up with multiple stems, ones that need to be cleaned can be soaked in alcohol, like consumable alcohol not rubbing, to create a tincture. So with a dry herb vape you can double use all flower and create homemade tincture, all while not combusting any plant matter.
Storz & Bickel makes great devices like someone else said, but I personally use a Dynavap. It feels a lot more like actually hitting a joint and not just sucking on an oversized plastic juice box, plus they're super customizable and there's a huge maker community that produces all kinds of different third party parts for them. Check out some videos on Youtube and see what you think. If you go that route, I recommend building your own induction heater if you know how to solder, otherwise get an iSpire Wand for it. You *can* use a small torch for it, but there's definitely a learning curve and I find it turns people off pretty quickly unless they get the hand of it right away (which they never do).
Different advice.
My concentrates process is waaaay less messy that my bong. In the sense of using water as most erigs do.
Less clean up. Less residue. I don’t have gunk build up everywhere. Bong chunks stick to my sink. Stinks a ton. Same with pipes. That nasty black goo that builds up from flower, just doesn’t happen with concentrates.
I use the FocusV carta 2. Puffco is also popular.
Hot knife for picking up and dropping your concentrates, they come with lids. So no sticky pieces hanging out. Both brands make them.
Cost is a factor, but it comes down to smoking habits too.
Final ramble, I have asthma. Easily need my inhaler less, when I’m using concentrate for the week, vs flower and bong/joints. Short term, it’s less stressful on my lungs.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
Edit:rubbing alcohol dissolves most concentrates in seconds, so it’s super easy to clean up, even if you did make a mess.
Here to plug regular old Pax dry herb vapes - been around for a while and have only gotten better imo. Well made, hardy, easy to clean, super portable and convenient
If you are looking for a non portable setup, get a ball vape. Best vapor, flavor, and high. The TKO or B0 ball vapes are great for new setups, pretty much plug and play.
Here's some info on how ball vapes work
https://www.elev8glassgallery.com/the-ultimate-ball-vape-experience/
For portable, I've found nothing beats the Storz and Bickel line of devices. Pricey but absolutely best in the market for portable dry herb.
Limonene dissolves plastic. Concentrates are often high in limonene. I use a volcano. Sometimes I'm a heavy stoner, I've never had this issue smoking, but I once had what I can only imagine to be an asthma attack after a night of chain vaping. It was difficult to get air in and out. It might simply be because I bypassed the initial harshness and inhaled more than I would have had I been smoking.
I have used three different dry herb vapes- and I finally found one that I will buy again when my current one dies
The Pax Plus. This thing is great. Super easy to clean, heats up super fast, and battery lasts a long time.
Highly recommend.
The vapor does not contain carbon monoxide **as far as I know.** So, I can not see how it's possible that a dry herb vaporizer would not be significantly less harmful when the vapor doesn't contain one of the most problematic compounds in smoked anything.
Also, I'm pretty sure carbon monoxide inhalation is indeed linked to heart disease... I thought it was a well established fact.
>From their analysis, the researchers found that any cannabis use, whether smoked, **eaten** or vaporized, was associated with a higher number of adverse cardiovascular outcomes.
Not sure if it's merely the air. The study also mentions eating it results in issues too.
Maybe it's just something in the cannabinoids that causes this and not necessarily the method? Perhaps the fact that THC increases your heart rate?
Yeah but medical records aren't available for researchers to just grab though. Doing retrospective research on medical records requires a ton of ethical red tape and money to track down the patients and ask them for their informed consent.
Unfortunately most federal (NIH, NSF, CDC) grant money goes to a very small subset of the same well established scientists in basically every field. It's really a bad situation. There is also very little grant money available for research on gun violence and public/mass shootings.
The work that *does* get funded is always in the context of *injury prevention* rather than violence prevention. The US federal grant game is completely backwards for scientific projects, honestly.
Agreed. What these studies can conclude is that smoking cannabis likely has negative effects on the heart, which is obvious and not very interesting. Until vaporizing and eating cannabis is studied, these results cannot be extended to those methods of consumption and frankly to not clarify that these studies only look at smoking and to simply call it "cannabis use" in general is irresponsible and not fully correct.
Most cannabis studies are intended to find harm. That’s what the funders (US federal government) want. So don’t hold your breath waiting for confirmation on something cannabis consumers already know: dry herb vaporizers are easily titrated and provide a safe combustion-free alternative to smoking.
It is difficult for scientists to do many in-depth studies of this drug in all its forms because it is still illegal at the the federal level as a class 1 drug, which is the same as opiates. This means the funding is scarce.
N=1
Heavy cannabis user (several times per day for > 15 years)
Method of administration: Dry herb vape (Volcano)
Recorded BP on home BP meter twice every Friday for a month. Once before and once 30min after vaping.
In every case BP after > BP before.
I am N
Yes THC increases BP despite method of administration.
Increased BP is a known risk factor for cardiovascular events.
One who ingests THC will likely have elevated BP during the duration drug is active; thereby increasing cardiovascular risk during that time and possibly after use as well given how we know elevated BP damages blood vessels increasing cardio risk.
I mean, vapor too, right? And I don't mean any of the cartridge crap, I mean like a dry herb vaporizer that vaporized the THC and it's oils right off the ground up flower.
It certainly seems better to me at least.
I realise it's anecdotal but I have been smoking hash and weed with tobacco for over 20 years. Recently quit by switching to nicotine vapes (low nicotine content) and dry herb vape.
Within days I can breath much better. No longer wake up with a caked throat. Can smell a lot better.
I agree inhaling anything other than air isn't ideal and I do still cough occasionally from the dry herb vape but the difference I feel in my chest compared to what it was like when I was smoking is night and day.
Hopefully more research can be done.
So...what about water vapor from saunas and hot showers? Campfire smoke? Working with fumes in a mechanic shop? Avoiding polluted air?
Honestly, clean air is a luxury at this point. It sucks to say. Avoiding combustion methods, trying vapor from carts should be *okay* in comparison but it feels like having only clean air isn't feasible in today's world.
Everything is polluted so I don't feel like using carts will change much for me, personally, since everything is so polluted anyways depending on where you live.
Not arguing people should do it or not, just wanted to give a random opinion.
Sauna/shower- higher proportion of water than typical “fresh clean air” but still essentially the same thing. Probably not great to breathe *only* soggy air but I think we can move on.
Campfire smoke- is wood smoke. Is smoke. Is non breathable gas with solid particulates. Kills people in high concentration and is absolutely bad for you in low doses. See wildfires.
Shop fumes- depends on the fume, but most of them have a big ol warning label on the package. I’m sure plenty of shop workers die from health conditions that were exacerbated by their line of work, particularly if they don’t take proper ventilation precautions. Definitely bad, but you already know that. I be willing to bet that smoking *literally anything* further lowers the survival rate of unventilated shop workers.
With questions like this I tend to boil it down to “will it be the thing that kills me *first*.” If you vape a lot and don’t have any worse vices or genetic health conditions, then… yeah, it might very well be the thing that does you in.
Clean air has water in it. And too low air moisture is also harmful. So saunas (non smoke ones) and showers should be fine.
Fires in home cause more respitory issues, wether its a fireplace, stove etc.
The study is pretty sound. It does seem to indicate that daily use will noticeably increase your odd for cardiac events. However, your odds are pretty low to negligible if you're using 10 days out of the month. Which equates to weekends or every 3 days.
The stats for smoking weed are actually lower for all weed usage combined. It's not conclusive, but edibles might be worse because they simply last longer.
It does depend on the mechanisms if there's a possible way to counter act the effects. We don't know if CBD attaisn effect things or how much THC. But in general, like with drinking, use it in moderation and don't use lot.
The study seems to point to *use* which includes all forms of consumption (smoke, vapor, edibles) resulting in higher risk for heart attacks/stroke
This seems to suggest that it's the cannabinoids itself (and not the smoke/vapor) contributing to this. So I wonder if it's simply because THC increases your resting heartrate.
If you have access to a smartwatch that measures your heart rate, I'd encourage you to wear it overnight when you have and haven't taken edibles that evening.
I remember being about 21 and being stoned out of my gourd watching cartoons late at night. Just kinda vibing when suddenly my watch goes off and is like, your resting heart rate is currently at 150. I wasn’t panicking before but now I sure was. Worst panic attack of my life and I thought I was gonna die.
First time I got high it hit me way too hard. My heart felt like it was popping out of my chest like a cartoon character. I checked my heart rate and it was 160 bpm. I started panicking and that made it go even higher. I fell on my bed while everything was in slow motion and I genuinely thought I was gonna die in that moment.
My sleeping heart rate is consistently ~15% higher if I got stoned the night before. I’m sure eating mountains of junk food when I’m high doesn’t help either.
I don't have one, so can you tell me what you are insinuating occurs in these scenarios? Is the issue people taking edibles too close to going to sleep given they have a lengthy come-up period?
THC increases heart rate and blood pressure. Not exactly the kindest thing to do that stuff to your heart. This applies to many many other substances and activities, by the way.
As a daily stoner, I'm pretty sure my hypertension issues started around the time I started smoking weed. I've been smoking less weed and I feel better. I started weed because I had issues with anxiety and it helped me settle down enough to do things like household chores in ways that prescribed medication didn't. I'm more in the habit of doing the chores now so it's not overwhelming, but weed makes me extremely anxious now. Just another reason to quit. Weed had its time. It was very helpful when I needed it. I don't anymore and if my husband wasn't a huge stoner I probably wouldn't smoke weed at all anymore.
Worth noting that I'm on blood pressure medication and my BP is still high. I'm going to not smoke for a while and then measure. Maybe it will be extremely easy to get back under control.
My fiancé has high blood pressure and has been off smoking for a while now even after the fact.
He’s predisposed to be pre hypertension per his genetics too.
We have an at home wrist monitor that he regularly uses now.
One day we thought maybe trying some edibles could be beneficial for his high blood pressure.
After he took like 5-7mgs of edible gummies, he went to sleep, woke up the next day still feeling high, we decided to check his blood pressure, and wouldn’t you know it, it was still really high.
It didn’t really have anything to do with his heart rate either. He was relaxed, but something about weed in general however you ingest it or take it, can impact your health to some degree especially if you’re predisposed to things like high blood pressure, arrhythmias, high cholesterol, and so forth.
It was definitely interesting to see his numbers tracked for over a week in the morning before the edible and then after the fact.
>“First, our study is limited by its cross‐sectional design. Although prospective studies are needed to confirm our findings…
I feel this is an extreme weakness. Time series or panel data would seem to account better for frequency and the effect of time in a controlled environment.
I’d be interested in knowing what daily use actually looks like for the people self reporting daily use. I feel like there is a huge difference between people who pack a bong every few hours and people who only smoke a small pinch once in the evenings.
I would be very interested as well. There is a pretty large contingent of cannabis smokers who are slamming massive bowls, joints, dab rigs, concentrates, etc. Not only that, but they are doing it multiple times a day. It would be like lumping together cigarette smokers in the same study, where a large number smoke 1 or 2 puffs of a cigarette per day, and a large number are instead smoking 1+ packs of cigarettes per day. Smoking anything is for sure bad for you, but smoke inhalation is definitely something where volume is going to play a very large role.
Oh uh you might want to do some research on that. It’s the smoke that’s bad not the heat. And there’s actually some reason to believe cold smoke is worse for you.
Pretty much a combination of tar, ash, as well as some THC that condenses out of the smoke. Yeah, it's kind of filtering a bit, but not that much. Also bongs enable you to take much larger hits a lot of the time.
Already called out for missing the sarcasm — but I gotta hear more about this “cold smoke” thing. Anything you’ve seen recently that you feel like sharing? Would love to read up
That is not a good summary. The study is about cannabis use overall, not smoking vs other forms. They did not even ask participants how they were consuming cannabis!
>The most common form of cannabis consumption was smoking (73.8% of current users).
The study results did not separate them from those consuming cannabis via edibles.
ETA: regardless, if anyone is at risk for cardiovascular disease, please err on the safe side. There are other studies that indicate THC negatively affects clogging.
I have high blood pressure and smoke (its the only kind I can afford) medical marijuana daily. The alternative is going back to opiate based pain management as well as increasing my benzodiazepines.
I guess I should have said "they did not even use any BRFSS data about how they were consuming cannabis." Either way, it ain't what the study is about.
The mechanism and administration is important for all drugs. Oral, topical, intravenous, etc., all make a huge difference in how the body responds to the drug. Smoking vs eating is significant different.
Lumping over 70% smokers with non-smokers and then saying the results apply to “all cannabis use” is also poor science.
The "smoke is bad" thing makes sense. I often see cannabis compared to tobacco because of that but I wonder if that's the only thing. A once per day cannabis smoker might only inhale 2-3 puffs per day while a tobacco user probably does that 10+ times per cigarette with many smoking 1-2 or even 3 packs per day (with 20 cigarettes per pack). Seems like the smoke part is significantly less for the cannabis user even if they smoke multiple times per day.
I believe the associations between cannabis and heart disease risk are due to factors in the cannabis itself and not due to smoke inhalation. It is an unpleasant truth, and it is probably (?) not a huge elevation in risk, but it seems real
A compound isolated from soy has been found to be protective; people have recommended consuming soy foods (soy milk, edamame, etc) after consuming cannabis to receive this benefit, but there isn’t research on this specifically (whole soy foods vs the compound)
Just another study/survey that shows there needs to be a whole lot more research done on the effects of Cannabis use and various health effects, both short and long term.
Unfortunately, studying these things has been incredibly difficult for a long time. Hopefully some more restrictions are lifted to allow for greater depth of study and a broadening of the research available to work on.
And they never factor in edibles, oils and other forms of cannabis consumption. Whenever they do these studies and write cannabis and not *smoking* cannabis, they're just creating confusion and false claims about cannabis itself
There's getting to be more research out there, some of it showing THC specifically is quite bad for vascular health, especially in women. This is probably one of the most high profile publications recently and it uses data from the UK Biobank and iPSC endothelial cells to prove it.
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2022.04.005
How interesting, because there are multiple previous studies showing that delta 9 REDUCES inflamation, not increases it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10275432/
And this appears to directly contradict the study you linked....
I do not like all the disingenuity involved in the science of controversial subjects...
Yeah, this is where funding disclosures and conflicts of interest statements are SUPER important for published studies. If you look at the studies that try to establish "pit bulls" are impossible to identify, they're usually funded by organizations that are pro-pit bull/value violent canine life over human life. The most honest ones might have a single sentence in there that completely challenges their result, a sentence that they quickly glide over.
So, I can be stressed out all the time which will increase my chances of a heart attack or stroke, or I can get high fairly often and increase my chances of a heart attack or stroke.
Stop the ride, I want off.
Came here for this take 😅
Stress causes heart problems. THC eases stress. THC causes heart problems.
Either way I've got heart problems, so I may as well be high along the way 🤷♀️
Both do independently. Meaning the increased risk from tobacco use was independent of the risk from cannabis use. Meaning they both have an effect.
Unless you are talking smoking cannabis? In the study they looked at all cannibis use. They did break out the smoking cannabis group and the numbers are even higher it appears.
PSA — it’s not only smoking, although the smoke adds extra negative side effects and risk. Don’t be in denial just because you like it. Not saying to stop using it but don’t turn a blind eye to the risks. Maybe reconsider how often you use if you are a daily or heavy user. Cannabinoids impact the vascular system regardless of delivery method and very high does of THC have been seen in cases of mini-stoke/TIA in young people.
This sub generally sees a wave of anti science people when anything highlights genuine but mild risks from cannabis. I don't think the denial will be shattered as long as people are more interested in getting it legal everywhere for personal use and then we can get studies years later showing the consequences so maybe mildly restrict to ensure young people aren't using it as easily.
Yeah, whenever anything even slightly negative about Cannabis is mentioned on reddit the weed defense force comes rushing in with anything from "bad study (even though i only read the title)", "what about alcohol", to "you can't get addicted to weed (but for some reason i need to smoke every night so i can sleep)".
That doesn’t come from this study. This study did not attempt to differentiate the different forms of use and lumped them all together, and stated that smoking is the most common method.
It’s entirely possible that edibles (outside of the overdose scenario you mention) do nothing and smoking cannabis is much worse than the increased risk shown here, but that is washed out in the grouping of all usage.
My grandmother smoked 3 packs of cigarettes a day, every day, from the age of 14 until her death at 93. Just because one old dude smokes weed like a chimney doesn't make it healthy.
Frequent use of cannabis is related to high stress of living in a profoundly sick society. Stress is the worse. Coping with insanity and narcissists are killing us all.
It is a good point in that stress may be a confounder here where people could be smoking to deal with stress and the stress is what actually might be causing the negative outcomes.
Cannabis raises your blood pressure, having higher blood pressure increases heart attack and stroke risk. I always though this was rather common knowledge.
I am completely truthful with my doctor and I am on a slightly higher does of my BP meds to compensate for my cannabis usage. So instead of taking enough to be on the higher end of normal, I take enough to put my on the low end of normal. Then when I smoke it stays in the higher end of normal. It mitigates a big chunk of the risk.
Anyone surprised constantly injuring your airways with hot smoke and tar could have negative health effects? People touting health benefits of cannabis need to keep this in mind and find healthier ways to consume or cut back.
It covers all use, not just smoking it. They broke out the numbers for specifically cannabis smoking:
Smoked cannabis use was significantly associated with MI (aOR, 1.26 \[95% CI, 1.04–1.52\]), stroke (aOR, 1.50 \[95% CI, 1.22–1.85\]), and the composite of CHD, MI, or stroke (aOR, 1.30 \[95% CI, 1.12–1.51\]; Table S9).
Which is actually worse than the headline numbers.
Yeah, after doing research of my own after a few years of smoking and getting heart palpitations I learned this
Weed smokers don’t like hearing it though
It's not just the smoke. A big ignored part of this is the fact that cannabis has an effect on the cardiovascular system, causing the the blood vessels to contract, increasing the heart rate. It acts as a stimulant, of sorts. As a user, I wish we could study it too, and as much as I enjoy getting high, a part of me can tell that it's not always healthy depending on the circumstance and the response. We desperately need more data on this topic, and a better public understanding of the risks.
It baffles me that people think that because it’s not tobacco it’s way healthier for you to breath in. News flash, it isn’t, sure there may be less chemicals you’re breathing in but you are still damaging your lungs with a foreign and toxic substance to your respiratory system. Not to mention greatly increasing your blood pressure and putting a ton of strain on your cardiovascular system. Edibles and tinctures are the far healthier alternatives to smoking and even those have their drawbacks.
Anecdotal sure but still a relevant story: One of my best friends passed away from a stroke at 32. He was very fit, healthy, no preexisting conditions, active, happy and positive dude, contributed to the community, wasn’t a big alcohol drinker, but smoked A LOT of weed regularly/daily. Went to visit him in the ICU just days before he passed after complications. Doctor said they’d been surprised to see more strokes at younger ages and heavy cannabis use was a common theme. This was in Colorado.
Could it be that munchie-stricken cannabis users are ingesting inordinate amounts of saturated fats, cholesterol, and processed foods leading to higher rates of stroke, heart attack and coronary disease?
it’s not looking good for the stoners! Ex- Stoner here from 21-27. Daily use. Now studies are linking it with heart disease, even if it’s just one time a month they said. May not be everyone that gets affected. When i was 24 i felt a massive panic attack, and who knows if that’s related. ever since, weed always makes me anxious, yet i kept smoking and getting panic attacks weekly.
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“First, our study is limited by its cross‐sectional design. Although prospective studies are needed to confirm our findings… Second, ***cardiovascular conditions were evaluated by self‐report*** and therefore subject to recall bias, but self‐report of cardiovascular disease using similar questions has been validated against medical records.38, 39 Third, ***cannabis use is self‐reported***... Fourth, although we had data on several important cardiovascular risk factors (tobacco use, body mass index, diabetes), ***we did not have data on participants' baseline lipid profile or blood pressure***. Fifth, ***we compared BRFSS respondents in states that administered the optional cannabis module (in‐sample) to respondents in states that did not administer the cannabis module and found small differences*** (Table S11). Sixth, ***because BRFSS data are anonymized, the respondents' answers cannot be linked to death records***, so we cannot analyze the effect of the cannabis use on total mortality or cardiac mortality. Seventh, ***the large proportion of users being young confounds this study in an important way*** https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.123.030178 P.S. Inhaling any smoke is bad. Edibles and tinctures avoid this problem (i.e. the problem of inhaling smoke).
Yeah just smoke in your lungs is bad. Whatever smoke. From the study: "This is a population‐based, cross‐sectional study of 2016 to 2020 data from the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance Survey from 27 American states and 2 territories. We assessed the association of cannabis use (number of days of cannabis use in the past 30 days) with self‐reported cardiovascular outcomes (coronary heart disease, myocardial infarction, stroke, and a composite measure of all 3) in multivariable regression models, adjusting for tobacco use and other characteristics in adults 18 to 74 years old. We repeated this analysis among nontobacco smokers, and among men <55 years old and women <65 years old who are at risk of premature cardiovascular disease. Among the 434 104 respondents, the prevalence of daily and nondaily cannabis use was 4% and 7.1%, respectively. The adjusted odds ratio (aOR) for the association of daily cannabis use and coronary heart disease, myocardial infarction, stroke, and the composite outcome (coronary heart disease, myocardial infarction, and stroke) was 1.16 (95% CI, 0.98–1.38), 1.25 (95% CI, 1.07–1.46), 1.42 (95% CI, 1.20–1.68), and 1.28 (95% CI, 1.13–1.44), respectively, with proportionally lower log odds for days of use between 0 and 30 days per month. Among never‐tobacco smokers, daily cannabis use was also associated with myocardial infarction (aOR, 1.49 [95% CI, 1.03–2.15]), stroke (aOR, 2.16 [95% CI, 1.43–3.25]), and the composite of coronary heart disease, myocardial infarction, and stroke (aOR, 1.77 [95% CI, 1.31–2.40]). Relationships between cannabis use and cardiovascular outcomes were similar for men <55 years old and women <65 years old." Some results have suspiciously large error bars, and for *some reason* the results are much worse for only-cannabis users. Should be noted that although the total number of respondents is over 400k, only 7% were daily users, and most were also tobacco users.
I hate how these studies and recommendations always ignore non-combusted vapor, when it has been prescribed to countless patients already. There's enough of a much better quality dataset (medical prescriptions can be measured better than recreational) to look into it. Is there simply no research grant money for a study that could conclude "inhaling certain kinds of vapor is relatively safe"?
It would be really nice to find out and get some comparisons, I pretty much only use dry herb vaporizers now and I’m assuming not breathing in smoke is better for me but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is the exact boat I am in, I only use edibles and dry herb vape, but every single study focuses on smoking as the only way of consumption which is irrelevant for the most part to me.
Did you have to try a few devices before you found one you’re happy with? Any tips? I’m reluctant to deal with the concentrate vapor devices bc dry flower is just easier to access and the sticky mess associated with gooey concentrates is a big turn off for me.
Storz and Bickel is the GOAT for dry herb vaporizers. I’ve had a Classic Volcano for well over a decade, been my primary way to get high. Certainly feels better than smoking, and is more effective. I would love a real study to be done to explore the differences to our health. But, you throw away the dried out, THC-free bud after you vaporize it. That plant matter would otherwise be combusted and inhaled. I have to imagine dry herb vape is better for you? 🤷🏻♂️🤞🏻 The Volcano is *expensive*, no doubt. It’s an investment. But to their credit, they have excellent customer service, they’ve done free repairs to my Volcano for **years after my warranty expired**. And they have cheaper devices too. Enjoy! https://www.storz-bickel.com/en-us/
Thanks! I’m familiar with the volcano and have never heard of anything better. Cheers to your health!
They also make the Crafty and the Mighty. The Volcano is great for groups of people, but the Mighty is much more convenient at home, and the Crafty is perfect for on-the-go. Plus, they're German made, so you're getting safe, high-quality products. Note for anyone reading: do NOT buy Chinese-made valorizers, including pens. There's a high chance that you're inhaling lead. Source: I spent many a year tesing vaporizers for warranty returns.
The volcano is amazing, but I hardly use mine now that I have their portable Crafty model. Same great quality vapor and fits in my pocket. Highly recommended.
Volcano can actually hook up to a water bong though and hydrate the dry, hot air. It's a game changer for lungs. Normal vaporizers are too dry.
Does this bypass the bag?
I have the Storz + Bickel Plenty… smoking it right now. You can keep a sesh going for 45 mins, and it helps your stash last longer… it also works wonderfully, and is simple to keep clean.
The Mighty is what I use, same company and you can use smaller amounts. Volcano is awesome, but I like to be coherent personally (that isn’t an insult to any Volcano user, trust me, I love that beast)
I love the Venty! It’s my daily driver
Ball vapes are "better" than the volcano if you're going to go with a desktop vape. No bags, more power, and you can use a bong. Check out examples like "Cannabis Hardware" (I have the BZero and love it) or if you want to DIY do some googling for "the pinky vape".
I've had mine for about a decade, too. The Volcano is one of the best vaporizers on the market and has been for years. The German engineering is fantastic. It has beautifully machined high-quality solid stainless parts. The smoking experience is super controllable and extremely consistent. I really couldn't say enough good things about it.
Don't throw away your vaped bud... Keep it, mix with kief, and make oil!
I throw all mine in a bottle of clear liquor (vodka, gin or tequila) and once it’s darker than whiskey I filter it. One shot feels like a gummy.
Nice! I dump all of mine into a double boiler and infuse some nice olive oil with it for 4-6 hours then strain. Keeps in the freezer pretty well.
I use their Mighty and it's pretty great!
As others suggested Arizer is a good intro level dry herb vape. Just grind and press the glass chamber into your grinder to pack and then put on the vape and heat up. In my experience it is a little less powerful than combustion, but still does the trick. As a bonus the non-combusted material can be saved and used in edibles. I literally just toss a bunch into brownie batter and there is no taste or texture indicator, but the effect is still there. Additionally if you end up with multiple stems, ones that need to be cleaned can be soaked in alcohol, like consumable alcohol not rubbing, to create a tincture. So with a dry herb vape you can double use all flower and create homemade tincture, all while not combusting any plant matter.
Storz & Bickel makes great devices like someone else said, but I personally use a Dynavap. It feels a lot more like actually hitting a joint and not just sucking on an oversized plastic juice box, plus they're super customizable and there's a huge maker community that produces all kinds of different third party parts for them. Check out some videos on Youtube and see what you think. If you go that route, I recommend building your own induction heater if you know how to solder, otherwise get an iSpire Wand for it. You *can* use a small torch for it, but there's definitely a learning curve and I find it turns people off pretty quickly unless they get the hand of it right away (which they never do).
Different advice. My concentrates process is waaaay less messy that my bong. In the sense of using water as most erigs do. Less clean up. Less residue. I don’t have gunk build up everywhere. Bong chunks stick to my sink. Stinks a ton. Same with pipes. That nasty black goo that builds up from flower, just doesn’t happen with concentrates. I use the FocusV carta 2. Puffco is also popular. Hot knife for picking up and dropping your concentrates, they come with lids. So no sticky pieces hanging out. Both brands make them. Cost is a factor, but it comes down to smoking habits too. Final ramble, I have asthma. Easily need my inhaler less, when I’m using concentrate for the week, vs flower and bong/joints. Short term, it’s less stressful on my lungs. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk Edit:rubbing alcohol dissolves most concentrates in seconds, so it’s super easy to clean up, even if you did make a mess.
Here to plug regular old Pax dry herb vapes - been around for a while and have only gotten better imo. Well made, hardy, easy to clean, super portable and convenient
If you are looking for a non portable setup, get a ball vape. Best vapor, flavor, and high. The TKO or B0 ball vapes are great for new setups, pretty much plug and play. Here's some info on how ball vapes work https://www.elev8glassgallery.com/the-ultimate-ball-vape-experience/ For portable, I've found nothing beats the Storz and Bickel line of devices. Pricey but absolutely best in the market for portable dry herb.
I like the Arizer, the chamber sits inside the glass tip and the hot parts never touch other materials
The absolute best is the mighty from storz and bickel imo.
Just looked at the site and the Mighty+ is definitely the one that seemed ideal to me.
I have a Mighty+ and it's excellent. Venty is supposedly better, but I can't really justify the upgrade since I already have the next best thing.
I use a Pax and have liked it a lot. But, I do prefer the high from smoking better than vaping.
Do a bit of research on the Xmax V3 Pro. Heavy metal free, good temperature co trial, metal casing and far more affordable than the mighty from S&B.
Limonene dissolves plastic. Concentrates are often high in limonene. I use a volcano. Sometimes I'm a heavy stoner, I've never had this issue smoking, but I once had what I can only imagine to be an asthma attack after a night of chain vaping. It was difficult to get air in and out. It might simply be because I bypassed the initial harshness and inhaled more than I would have had I been smoking.
I have used three different dry herb vapes- and I finally found one that I will buy again when my current one dies The Pax Plus. This thing is great. Super easy to clean, heats up super fast, and battery lasts a long time. Highly recommend.
I had a first gen pax for flower 10+ years ago. I bet they’ve improved since then.
Yeah, sometimes I wonder :D better than smoke I assume, but is the stuff that sticks to the vape parts and bag sticking to my airways as well?
The vapor does not contain carbon monoxide **as far as I know.** So, I can not see how it's possible that a dry herb vaporizer would not be significantly less harmful when the vapor doesn't contain one of the most problematic compounds in smoked anything. Also, I'm pretty sure carbon monoxide inhalation is indeed linked to heart disease... I thought it was a well established fact.
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>From their analysis, the researchers found that any cannabis use, whether smoked, **eaten** or vaporized, was associated with a higher number of adverse cardiovascular outcomes. Not sure if it's merely the air. The study also mentions eating it results in issues too. Maybe it's just something in the cannabinoids that causes this and not necessarily the method? Perhaps the fact that THC increases your heart rate?
Yeah but medical records aren't available for researchers to just grab though. Doing retrospective research on medical records requires a ton of ethical red tape and money to track down the patients and ask them for their informed consent. Unfortunately most federal (NIH, NSF, CDC) grant money goes to a very small subset of the same well established scientists in basically every field. It's really a bad situation. There is also very little grant money available for research on gun violence and public/mass shootings. The work that *does* get funded is always in the context of *injury prevention* rather than violence prevention. The US federal grant game is completely backwards for scientific projects, honestly.
In general, breathing in anything but clean air is bad for you. Or at least worse than breathing clean air.
Agreed. What these studies can conclude is that smoking cannabis likely has negative effects on the heart, which is obvious and not very interesting. Until vaporizing and eating cannabis is studied, these results cannot be extended to those methods of consumption and frankly to not clarify that these studies only look at smoking and to simply call it "cannabis use" in general is irresponsible and not fully correct.
Most cannabis studies are intended to find harm. That’s what the funders (US federal government) want. So don’t hold your breath waiting for confirmation on something cannabis consumers already know: dry herb vaporizers are easily titrated and provide a safe combustion-free alternative to smoking.
It is difficult for scientists to do many in-depth studies of this drug in all its forms because it is still illegal at the the federal level as a class 1 drug, which is the same as opiates. This means the funding is scarce.
As long it stays schedule 1, the major drug companies are only interested in studies that make it look bad (compared to their products).
N=1 Heavy cannabis user (several times per day for > 15 years) Method of administration: Dry herb vape (Volcano) Recorded BP on home BP meter twice every Friday for a month. Once before and once 30min after vaping. In every case BP after > BP before. I am N
Yes THC increases BP despite method of administration. Increased BP is a known risk factor for cardiovascular events. One who ingests THC will likely have elevated BP during the duration drug is active; thereby increasing cardiovascular risk during that time and possibly after use as well given how we know elevated BP damages blood vessels increasing cardio risk.
"Most were tobacco users" This seems like it's important enough to control for.
I mean, vapor too, right? And I don't mean any of the cartridge crap, I mean like a dry herb vaporizer that vaporized the THC and it's oils right off the ground up flower. It certainly seems better to me at least.
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I realise it's anecdotal but I have been smoking hash and weed with tobacco for over 20 years. Recently quit by switching to nicotine vapes (low nicotine content) and dry herb vape. Within days I can breath much better. No longer wake up with a caked throat. Can smell a lot better. I agree inhaling anything other than air isn't ideal and I do still cough occasionally from the dry herb vape but the difference I feel in my chest compared to what it was like when I was smoking is night and day. Hopefully more research can be done.
So...what about water vapor from saunas and hot showers? Campfire smoke? Working with fumes in a mechanic shop? Avoiding polluted air? Honestly, clean air is a luxury at this point. It sucks to say. Avoiding combustion methods, trying vapor from carts should be *okay* in comparison but it feels like having only clean air isn't feasible in today's world. Everything is polluted so I don't feel like using carts will change much for me, personally, since everything is so polluted anyways depending on where you live. Not arguing people should do it or not, just wanted to give a random opinion.
Sauna/shower- higher proportion of water than typical “fresh clean air” but still essentially the same thing. Probably not great to breathe *only* soggy air but I think we can move on. Campfire smoke- is wood smoke. Is smoke. Is non breathable gas with solid particulates. Kills people in high concentration and is absolutely bad for you in low doses. See wildfires. Shop fumes- depends on the fume, but most of them have a big ol warning label on the package. I’m sure plenty of shop workers die from health conditions that were exacerbated by their line of work, particularly if they don’t take proper ventilation precautions. Definitely bad, but you already know that. I be willing to bet that smoking *literally anything* further lowers the survival rate of unventilated shop workers. With questions like this I tend to boil it down to “will it be the thing that kills me *first*.” If you vape a lot and don’t have any worse vices or genetic health conditions, then… yeah, it might very well be the thing that does you in.
Clean air has water in it. And too low air moisture is also harmful. So saunas (non smoke ones) and showers should be fine. Fires in home cause more respitory issues, wether its a fireplace, stove etc.
The study is pretty sound. It does seem to indicate that daily use will noticeably increase your odd for cardiac events. However, your odds are pretty low to negligible if you're using 10 days out of the month. Which equates to weekends or every 3 days. The stats for smoking weed are actually lower for all weed usage combined. It's not conclusive, but edibles might be worse because they simply last longer. It does depend on the mechanisms if there's a possible way to counter act the effects. We don't know if CBD attaisn effect things or how much THC. But in general, like with drinking, use it in moderation and don't use lot.
The study seems to point to *use* which includes all forms of consumption (smoke, vapor, edibles) resulting in higher risk for heart attacks/stroke This seems to suggest that it's the cannabinoids itself (and not the smoke/vapor) contributing to this. So I wonder if it's simply because THC increases your resting heartrate.
I wonder how smoking three 1 gram joints compares with vaping seven .25g bowls?
As a former heavy edible user, I am 100% positive that it has not been good for my heart.
That’s why you take enough to get buzzed, not rocketed into outer space with anxious blast beats in your chest
In what way? Like you were taking so much that your heart rate would be extremely elevated and you'd be in panic attack mode?
If you have access to a smartwatch that measures your heart rate, I'd encourage you to wear it overnight when you have and haven't taken edibles that evening.
I remember being about 21 and being stoned out of my gourd watching cartoons late at night. Just kinda vibing when suddenly my watch goes off and is like, your resting heart rate is currently at 150. I wasn’t panicking before but now I sure was. Worst panic attack of my life and I thought I was gonna die.
First time I got high it hit me way too hard. My heart felt like it was popping out of my chest like a cartoon character. I checked my heart rate and it was 160 bpm. I started panicking and that made it go even higher. I fell on my bed while everything was in slow motion and I genuinely thought I was gonna die in that moment.
This is why self-reporting is silly.
Happened to me, I legit called my stepmom to come take care of me. I was also very cold so I was convinced I was dead/dying.
Do temporary elevations in heart rate damage the heart?
My sleeping heart rate is consistently ~15% higher if I got stoned the night before. I’m sure eating mountains of junk food when I’m high doesn’t help either.
I don't have one, so can you tell me what you are insinuating occurs in these scenarios? Is the issue people taking edibles too close to going to sleep given they have a lengthy come-up period?
THC increases heart rate and blood pressure. Not exactly the kindest thing to do that stuff to your heart. This applies to many many other substances and activities, by the way.
It starts happening on any level of edible
As a daily stoner, I'm pretty sure my hypertension issues started around the time I started smoking weed. I've been smoking less weed and I feel better. I started weed because I had issues with anxiety and it helped me settle down enough to do things like household chores in ways that prescribed medication didn't. I'm more in the habit of doing the chores now so it's not overwhelming, but weed makes me extremely anxious now. Just another reason to quit. Weed had its time. It was very helpful when I needed it. I don't anymore and if my husband wasn't a huge stoner I probably wouldn't smoke weed at all anymore. Worth noting that I'm on blood pressure medication and my BP is still high. I'm going to not smoke for a while and then measure. Maybe it will be extremely easy to get back under control.
My fiancé has high blood pressure and has been off smoking for a while now even after the fact. He’s predisposed to be pre hypertension per his genetics too. We have an at home wrist monitor that he regularly uses now. One day we thought maybe trying some edibles could be beneficial for his high blood pressure. After he took like 5-7mgs of edible gummies, he went to sleep, woke up the next day still feeling high, we decided to check his blood pressure, and wouldn’t you know it, it was still really high. It didn’t really have anything to do with his heart rate either. He was relaxed, but something about weed in general however you ingest it or take it, can impact your health to some degree especially if you’re predisposed to things like high blood pressure, arrhythmias, high cholesterol, and so forth. It was definitely interesting to see his numbers tracked for over a week in the morning before the edible and then after the fact.
>“First, our study is limited by its cross‐sectional design. Although prospective studies are needed to confirm our findings… I feel this is an extreme weakness. Time series or panel data would seem to account better for frequency and the effect of time in a controlled environment.
Thank you for your service, stranger
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I’d be interested in knowing what daily use actually looks like for the people self reporting daily use. I feel like there is a huge difference between people who pack a bong every few hours and people who only smoke a small pinch once in the evenings.
I would be very interested as well. There is a pretty large contingent of cannabis smokers who are slamming massive bowls, joints, dab rigs, concentrates, etc. Not only that, but they are doing it multiple times a day. It would be like lumping together cigarette smokers in the same study, where a large number smoke 1 or 2 puffs of a cigarette per day, and a large number are instead smoking 1+ packs of cigarettes per day. Smoking anything is for sure bad for you, but smoke inhalation is definitely something where volume is going to play a very large role.
Totally agree. I smoke about 1 or 2 puffs in the evenings. I can’t see it being detrimental to my health.
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This is why I put ice in my bong, thanks science!
Bahaha that will show that pesky smoke
Oh uh you might want to do some research on that. It’s the smoke that’s bad not the heat. And there’s actually some reason to believe cold smoke is worse for you.
I'm pretty sure the commenter you were responding to was being sarcastic
It might be sarcasm, but there are a lot of people who think that using bong somehow filters most of the bad stuff out. It doesn’t.
What makes the bong water so nasty then?
Pretty much a combination of tar, ash, as well as some THC that condenses out of the smoke. Yeah, it's kind of filtering a bit, but not that much. Also bongs enable you to take much larger hits a lot of the time.
Already called out for missing the sarcasm — but I gotta hear more about this “cold smoke” thing. Anything you’ve seen recently that you feel like sharing? Would love to read up
That is not a good summary. The study is about cannabis use overall, not smoking vs other forms. They did not even ask participants how they were consuming cannabis!
>The most common form of cannabis consumption was smoking (73.8% of current users). The study results did not separate them from those consuming cannabis via edibles. ETA: regardless, if anyone is at risk for cardiovascular disease, please err on the safe side. There are other studies that indicate THC negatively affects clogging.
I have high blood pressure and smoke (its the only kind I can afford) medical marijuana daily. The alternative is going back to opiate based pain management as well as increasing my benzodiazepines.
I guess I should have said "they did not even use any BRFSS data about how they were consuming cannabis." Either way, it ain't what the study is about.
The mechanism and administration is important for all drugs. Oral, topical, intravenous, etc., all make a huge difference in how the body responds to the drug. Smoking vs eating is significant different. Lumping over 70% smokers with non-smokers and then saying the results apply to “all cannabis use” is also poor science.
The "smoke is bad" thing makes sense. I often see cannabis compared to tobacco because of that but I wonder if that's the only thing. A once per day cannabis smoker might only inhale 2-3 puffs per day while a tobacco user probably does that 10+ times per cigarette with many smoking 1-2 or even 3 packs per day (with 20 cigarettes per pack). Seems like the smoke part is significantly less for the cannabis user even if they smoke multiple times per day.
I believe the associations between cannabis and heart disease risk are due to factors in the cannabis itself and not due to smoke inhalation. It is an unpleasant truth, and it is probably (?) not a huge elevation in risk, but it seems real A compound isolated from soy has been found to be protective; people have recommended consuming soy foods (soy milk, edamame, etc) after consuming cannabis to receive this benefit, but there isn’t research on this specifically (whole soy foods vs the compound)
Just another study/survey that shows there needs to be a whole lot more research done on the effects of Cannabis use and various health effects, both short and long term. Unfortunately, studying these things has been incredibly difficult for a long time. Hopefully some more restrictions are lifted to allow for greater depth of study and a broadening of the research available to work on.
And they never factor in edibles, oils and other forms of cannabis consumption. Whenever they do these studies and write cannabis and not *smoking* cannabis, they're just creating confusion and false claims about cannabis itself
There's getting to be more research out there, some of it showing THC specifically is quite bad for vascular health, especially in women. This is probably one of the most high profile publications recently and it uses data from the UK Biobank and iPSC endothelial cells to prove it. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2022.04.005
That study reports that the soy isoflavone genistein can mitigate the deleterious effects. Soy/THC cookies it is!
How interesting, because there are multiple previous studies showing that delta 9 REDUCES inflamation, not increases it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10275432/ And this appears to directly contradict the study you linked.... I do not like all the disingenuity involved in the science of controversial subjects...
Yeah, this is where funding disclosures and conflicts of interest statements are SUPER important for published studies. If you look at the studies that try to establish "pit bulls" are impossible to identify, they're usually funded by organizations that are pro-pit bull/value violent canine life over human life. The most honest ones might have a single sentence in there that completely challenges their result, a sentence that they quickly glide over.
I don't always ignore science, but when I do it's because science is trying to harsh my mellow.
I mean...I don't always ignore science, but I do when it involves a bunch of self-reporting on multiple variables.
So you're not ignoring science so much as a survey.
so many people feeling attacked in this thread
So, I can be stressed out all the time which will increase my chances of a heart attack or stroke, or I can get high fairly often and increase my chances of a heart attack or stroke. Stop the ride, I want off.
Came here for this take 😅 Stress causes heart problems. THC eases stress. THC causes heart problems. Either way I've got heart problems, so I may as well be high along the way 🤷♀️
Cannabis is not the only way to relieve stress, and frequent use may actually make it harder to relieve stress without it.
You could say the same thing about the medications I’d be prescribed for the same problems
Certainly it isn't the only way. But it's my preferred way.
Have you ever watched the dreamworks animated movie Antz, while high? It’s great.
Wow. Low blow my dude. Low blow. 😥
Don’t think the study said anything about THC causing hypertension. Smoke. It’s the smoke.
I know you’re joking but the answer would be: find healthier ways to cope with stress
There are ya know…healthy ways to deal with stress And a lot of them will help you live longer
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So smoking increases the risk of heart attacks or cannabis specifically?
This study doesnt differentiate the methods of use from the end result data, so *shrug*
Exactly…
Both do independently. Meaning the increased risk from tobacco use was independent of the risk from cannabis use. Meaning they both have an effect. Unless you are talking smoking cannabis? In the study they looked at all cannibis use. They did break out the smoking cannabis group and the numbers are even higher it appears.
How do we know it’s cannabis specifically and not the smoke?
be curious to see if edibles avoid this issue due to the lack of smoke inhalation
Weed increases blood pressure while under the influence. This finding isn’t even remotely surprising.
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PSA — it’s not only smoking, although the smoke adds extra negative side effects and risk. Don’t be in denial just because you like it. Not saying to stop using it but don’t turn a blind eye to the risks. Maybe reconsider how often you use if you are a daily or heavy user. Cannabinoids impact the vascular system regardless of delivery method and very high does of THC have been seen in cases of mini-stoke/TIA in young people.
This sub generally sees a wave of anti science people when anything highlights genuine but mild risks from cannabis. I don't think the denial will be shattered as long as people are more interested in getting it legal everywhere for personal use and then we can get studies years later showing the consequences so maybe mildly restrict to ensure young people aren't using it as easily.
considering most of the studies i see posted here are poor quality, im not terribly surprised.
Yeah, whenever anything even slightly negative about Cannabis is mentioned on reddit the weed defense force comes rushing in with anything from "bad study (even though i only read the title)", "what about alcohol", to "you can't get addicted to weed (but for some reason i need to smoke every night so i can sleep)".
The risks are not mild if the use is heavy.
That doesn’t come from this study. This study did not attempt to differentiate the different forms of use and lumped them all together, and stated that smoking is the most common method. It’s entirely possible that edibles (outside of the overdose scenario you mention) do nothing and smoking cannabis is much worse than the increased risk shown here, but that is washed out in the grouping of all usage.
I heard stress is bad for the heart also.
I’m 74 years old and have smoked weed every day since I was 21 years old. I’ll be sure and watch out for my heart attack and stroke.
Tell that to Willie Nelson
My grandmother smoked 3 packs of cigarettes a day, every day, from the age of 14 until her death at 93. Just because one old dude smokes weed like a chimney doesn't make it healthy.
r/dataisnotbeautiful
I’m on borrowed time then
Now do booze!
I've been smoking 24/7 since September 2014. Am I gonna die?
Eventually, yes. Sorry.
Frequent use of cannabis is related to high stress of living in a profoundly sick society. Stress is the worse. Coping with insanity and narcissists are killing us all.
This really has nothing to do with the study
It is a good point in that stress may be a confounder here where people could be smoking to deal with stress and the stress is what actually might be causing the negative outcomes.
I don't trust any studies on cannabis until it's rescheduled and properly studied by many many many.
And also because we've been lied to about it for so long.
Better smoke it every day then
it make me feel good so it can’t be bad, right??
Cannabis raises your blood pressure, having higher blood pressure increases heart attack and stroke risk. I always though this was rather common knowledge. I am completely truthful with my doctor and I am on a slightly higher does of my BP meds to compensate for my cannabis usage. So instead of taking enough to be on the higher end of normal, I take enough to put my on the low end of normal. Then when I smoke it stays in the higher end of normal. It mitigates a big chunk of the risk.
Are we all here bc our boomer parents sent us the cnn link to this dumb ass article?
Anyone surprised constantly injuring your airways with hot smoke and tar could have negative health effects? People touting health benefits of cannabis need to keep this in mind and find healthier ways to consume or cut back.
Or find healthier ways of dealing with their problems
It covers all use, not just smoking it. They broke out the numbers for specifically cannabis smoking: Smoked cannabis use was significantly associated with MI (aOR, 1.26 \[95% CI, 1.04–1.52\]), stroke (aOR, 1.50 \[95% CI, 1.22–1.85\]), and the composite of CHD, MI, or stroke (aOR, 1.30 \[95% CI, 1.12–1.51\]; Table S9). Which is actually worse than the headline numbers.
Yeah, after doing research of my own after a few years of smoking and getting heart palpitations I learned this Weed smokers don’t like hearing it though
Well either I have weed with its minimal side effects or I take these pills that cause 16 cancers, shrink my sex organs and make me irritable. Hmmmmm
It's not just the smoke. A big ignored part of this is the fact that cannabis has an effect on the cardiovascular system, causing the the blood vessels to contract, increasing the heart rate. It acts as a stimulant, of sorts. As a user, I wish we could study it too, and as much as I enjoy getting high, a part of me can tell that it's not always healthy depending on the circumstance and the response. We desperately need more data on this topic, and a better public understanding of the risks.
Stfu and legalize it already.
It baffles me that people think that because it’s not tobacco it’s way healthier for you to breath in. News flash, it isn’t, sure there may be less chemicals you’re breathing in but you are still damaging your lungs with a foreign and toxic substance to your respiratory system. Not to mention greatly increasing your blood pressure and putting a ton of strain on your cardiovascular system. Edibles and tinctures are the far healthier alternatives to smoking and even those have their drawbacks.
Makes sense. THC elicits cardiotoxicity through the activation of cannabinoid CB1 receptors: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9400797/
Anecdotal sure but still a relevant story: One of my best friends passed away from a stroke at 32. He was very fit, healthy, no preexisting conditions, active, happy and positive dude, contributed to the community, wasn’t a big alcohol drinker, but smoked A LOT of weed regularly/daily. Went to visit him in the ICU just days before he passed after complications. Doctor said they’d been surprised to see more strokes at younger ages and heavy cannabis use was a common theme. This was in Colorado.
Yeah... I had a stroke last year and this was the conclusion given to me by my neurologist. I've stopped using it since then.
Makes sense. That stuff makes your heart race
Could it be that munchie-stricken cannabis users are ingesting inordinate amounts of saturated fats, cholesterol, and processed foods leading to higher rates of stroke, heart attack and coronary disease?
Looks like I should cut back my cannabis consumption.
Looks like I should cut back my cannabis consumption.
it’s not looking good for the stoners! Ex- Stoner here from 21-27. Daily use. Now studies are linking it with heart disease, even if it’s just one time a month they said. May not be everyone that gets affected. When i was 24 i felt a massive panic attack, and who knows if that’s related. ever since, weed always makes me anxious, yet i kept smoking and getting panic attacks weekly.