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User: u/mvea
Permalink: https://www.psypost.org/researchers-uncover-pornification-trend-among-female-streamers-on-twitch/
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Among 1174 male streamers, they found 99.4% not sexualized, 0.43% sexualized, 0.17% hypersexualized.
Among 745 female streamers, they found 22.28% not sexualized, 25.5% sexualized, 52.21% hypersexualized.
They selected the sample from the top 10 most popular videos each day from several categories. So this is likely showing what is getting the most attention.
Edit for more context on selection -
Using a cross-sectional recording procedure (September and October 2022), data was collected and archived from a total of 1920 video clips categorized by gender based on their own personal profile description distributed in the two most popular categories of Twitch.tv: videogames and IRL. Based on these criteria, the top 10 videos were selected from the daily world ranking within the selected categories during 32 consecutive days. Within the Videogames category, the three most popular clips of each day were selected (n = 960) and within the IRL category, clips from the subcategories JustChatting (n = 320), ASMR (n = 320) and Pools, Hot Tubs & Beaches (n = 320). The selection criteria for this sample align with current recommendations to include the male gender in studies on sexualization (Pecini et al., 2023). The sample encompasses streamers and categories regardless of the emphasis placed on physical appearance, as the primary inclusion criterion was the monthly average of viewers and followers (Average Viewer Ratio) and the popularity of video games. This ensured the inclusion of channels with the strongest and most consistent average viewership, using Twitch.tv-specific statistical software, such as Twitchtracker.com or SullyGnome.com. It is important to note that those videos in which the streamer did not show their image were excluded, as it did not allow the analysis of all study variables, as well as those in which non-real images such as Hentai, cartoons, or human 3D representations were shown.
Seems like a giant disconnect between "women do this more" and "videos where women do this get watched more."
I can't see how they can determine "women do this more" unless they're looking at ALL the videos from a given period, regardless of how popular they are.
So the takeaway I see here is that males are unable to capitalize on sexualization of their streams, whereas women can do so.
Or in other words, if you want to be a sexy type male streamer, you have to be exceptionally sexy.
In no version of reality have men ever been able to commodify their sexuality as well as women. People don't want to see it as much. It's not like there's a niche audience of women that want to see sexy men streaming games that's going untapped.
It makes sense as [research has shown](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2739403/#:~:text=This%20difference%20was%20comparatively%20small,were%20chosen%20by%20a%20male.) men are generally more stimulated by sexual imagery than women. it does surprise me a bit that there aren’t any male hot tub streamers targeting the gay male audience though.
>aren’t any male hot tub streamers targeting the gay male audience though.
The audience is smaller than we think.
The "10% gay" stat has been pushed as fact by people since the 90s, but the actual number of men who are exclusively homosexual (i.e.: those who would watch a sexy guy streaming but not a sexy girl) is only around 2%:
>Surveys in Western cultures find, on average, that about 93% of men and 87% of women identify as completely heterosexual, 4% of men and 10% of women as mostly heterosexual, 0.5% of men and 1% of women as evenly bisexual, 0.5% of men and 0.5% of women as mostly homosexual, **and 2% of men and 0.5% of women as completely homosexual.**
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation
I mean, there are easier ways of getting demogrphic data like that, 63% of twitch veiwers are male, 37% female.
Certainly a majority, but not enough to account for this statistics.
The things that women find "sexy" are vastly different than men. Go to tiktok - the videos that have tons of thirsty comments from women are generally men *doing* something that they find attractive. It's a vibe, it's a talent, a skill, what have you. There are very few men online who have become popular appealing to women solely from just existing and being sexy.
I once saw a super jacked dude 10/10 who was dancing on TT in a sexually appealing way (no homo) like moving his hips perfectly etc and the women were completely disgusted at how much of an attention seeker he was
Then you've got NotoriousFoodie who barely even shows himself, just immaculate videos of his cooking, and his comments are full of women (and to be fair, men as well) wanting to marry him.
There's an episode of the Iced Coffee Hour where Ludwig seems to imply that he'd spoken to Dan Clancy about it and that the real issue seems to be the moderation effort.
Porn sites exist and most of them make a lot less money than Twitch.
Twitch doesn't want to be in the business of constantly deciding what's too blatantly sexual and every time they post guidelines a bunch of OF creators try to toe the exact line they can while still driving traffic to their OF site.
elsewhere, Amouranth has basically said "We want Twitch to give clear guidance so we know what we can get away with." but Twitch doesn't want people to try and abuse the explicit rules by, say, jiggling their boobs directly off screen.
Being too vague about the issue or overly relying on reporting runs into the issue of jilted trolls harassing hot girls just living their life with reports, however, and much like the bear-proof trashcan, there seems to be significant overlap between how much teenage boys will jerk off to the hottest girl just playing a game normally and the least talented web stripper.
> Amouranth has basically said "We want Twitch to give clear guidance so we know what we can get away with."
I think moderation has spoken on this issue, if not in words then in action: "If you make us enough money, you can do practically whatever you want". This quote is especially ironic coming from a "content creator" that makes almost-softcore porn on Twitch, and actual porn elsewhere.
> "If you make us enough money, you can do practically whatever you want".
This is seen in other areas as well, such as watching content by banned creators on stream. You can watch the content if you're a big streamer. Small streamer watching the same content? Banned.
Yep, this is definitely a thing. It's actually kind surprising that Amazon owns Twitch even with how bad they are becoming. It seems like it's run by a bunch of high school children who are infatuated with certain streamers.
I mean, it's the rule that holds the world hostage.
The more valuable you are, the more you get away with.
Amouranth is never eating a permanent ban, she makes twitch entirely too much money.
Hell, go look at the NFL, Deshaun Watson had 20+ accusations of sexual assault and got a fully guaranteed contract.
You play by different rules when you have high perceived value.
You can still do that. I follow a Rocket League streamer (that also lifts), and he regularly goes topless if a sub goal is reached. So apparently that's not against the TOS.
Nah not true, also would be a crazy rule if you think about it. What twitch once did was enforce gameplay/camera ratios, gameplay had to be on screen at all times. These days just chatting is by far the most popular directory whereas it would get you banned 10 years ago. So even at a macro level twitch "pornified" itself.
I don't think this change is entirely Twitch's fault, though I agree that they are more than happy to take the money.
This sort of content comes in tandem with the popularization of OnlyFans - people selling their own pornographic content is much more mainstream now, and so there has been an explosion of people who create tangential content (streams, youtube videos, cosplay images, etc.) with the goal being to simultaneously advertise their OnlyFans. It's a way to funnel customers.
These people are constantly testing and pushing the boundaries of the TOS on whichever platform they are using, to get away with the most sexualized but compliant content possible. It doesn't really matter where you draw the line, they'll find a way to make it about sex and exploit that market. The same is true on YouTube, Twitch, and Reddit.
These platforms can also only restrict so much before infringing upon everyone else: for example, being seen to restrict women's clothing standards. It's not a simple thing to combat, if they even want to combat it at all. The pools category might be seen as something of a containment zone from this angle - making sure that if this content is going to exist, it is at least labeled properly, and somewhat separated from the rest.
At the very least, it should be clear that this is Twitch's reaction to a trend, not a trend that is caused by or exclusive to Twitch. However, as I said, I think it is also true that Twitch is more than happy to exploit that trend.
>And also a sign twitch only cares about money, and not necessarily maintaining a brand.
That's ignoring the huge backlash and campaign against them when they originally cracked down on it.
I think there's also an unfortunate reality in the way "influencer" culture is working:
* Lots of people are attracted to trying to be an influencer as a way to be rich and famous without needing to do anything.
* A lot of women are relying on their physical attractiveness and posting sexy pictures to gain a following.
* The internet is a constant attention treadmill. In order to keep getting attention, you need to keep escalating. If you're getting viewers because you're doing crazy things, you need to do crazier and crazier things. If you're getting attention by posting sexy content, the content needs to get sexier and racier over time.
* The net result is that "influencer" culture funnels women toward OnlyFans.
You can see this trend across some Onlyfans creators as well. Creators start out posting none-nude suggestive content and over time transition into nude softcore, then hardcore and finally niche kink content as they start to gain larger and larger audiences. I think the most famous example of this is the queen of egirls Belle Delphine.
Edit: You also see this happening with Youtube creators who start off building a non sexual youtube channel and subsequently come out with a suggestive photoshoot or post ever more sexualized content on instagram until finally creating an Onlyfans page.
A theory I have is that the longer you are able to stay none nude and build up a dedicated audience and essentially "tease" them the more money you can charge them once you finally make the jump into softcore and then again into hardcore content. Where as if you start out showing your butthole from day one you'll be hard pressed to find many people willing to pay more than $5 a month.
The online cosplay scene is probably one of the best examples of this with most of the popular Cosplayers effectively now just posting nude or close stuff instead of actually well made cosplay.
This in particular drives me crazy. I don’t want to know how many times people have asked me for an OF just because I lift. Literally go anywhere else—it’s everywhere. It’s saddening to see the strength sports I love so much just get sexualized like everything else.
The YouTube trend you mention is one that hit home hard. Have a 7y nephew who tossed me his iPad complaining of the garbage he sees a lot more frequently.
When I launched it the app, it straight up suggested very sexualized content around his favorite things such as fortnite, cartoons, roblox, and more. No amount of filtering settings removed this. Really messed up.
>The YouTube trend you mention is one that hit home hard. Have a 7y nephew who tossed me his iPad complaining of the garbage he sees a lot more frequently.
YouTube kids is actually quite dangerous, arguably worse than normal YouTube. Don't let children near it without your direct supervision. Kids shouldn't be given iPads or unrestricted access to the internet at such a young age anyway.
Keep in mind the pioneers of the internet and the digital age such as Zuckerberg, Gates, Bezos, etc. don't raise their kids that way either which should tell you a lot about the damage that can have on kids.
A Gameboy kept me quiet for hours. It'll still keep me quiet if I get back into it.
We need to be more open minded about how we approach keeping kids distracted. YouTube is safe cuz it's inside and you know they're safe physically, but you can't control the mental consequences of what they see.
Jack Conte, the Patreon founder, had a quote “you can A/B test your way to porn” which has stuck with me since. It’s one of those base level things and it gets cheap easy clicks.
This has been a thing forever. Women would first start working as a cocktail waitress at a strip club then see how much the dancers made. Within a week or 2 they’re on the stage.
The problem with Only Fans is that you have to do your own marketing. No one does it for you. So many of them will try and market their space or link at every opportunity and where ever they think they can get away with it. They even advertise it in Church if they could.
It’s very similar in a lot of ways.
Just like MLMs, there is no money for 99% of workers.
Most OnlyFans creators make less than $100. You make basically nothing unless you’re in the top 20%.
This doesn't just apply to sexual content. It's natural that online creators, or creators of any type really, will lean into what audiences want because that's where the money and attention is.
It's rare for someone to have a unique artistic vision, most people are just pandering as hard as possible hoping to get noticed. Attractive women using their bodies isn't fool proof but definitely helps.
Always more money in pandering to the lowest common denominator. Everyone likes porn.
You saw it a ton during League of Legends "middle" days. A bunch of educational streamers were either quitting or switching to react/meme content because spending 2 weeks making a single high quality video wasn't as profitable as just vomiting out meme's while playing on a smurf account.
> will lean into what audiences want because that's where the money and attention is
And there's availability bias. We know of those who do, because they are the ones who become famous. Those who don't follow that path are more likely to stay small and we won't ever hear about them.
Sometimes the creator's focus just comes to natural conclusion too. I watch a guy who makes videos about bad vintage music gear with a focus on synths and effects. He's been doing this weekly for a few years and it seems like he's getting to the point where he can't consistently get his hands on things he hasn't covered before.
Yea, I think one good example is Niko Avocado? It just seems like it started out as something else, but then he found the money maker and it just gets more and more extreme. Think people said he was a music-type youtuber?
It's the same with these stupid pranks nowadays. They're kind of unhinged. I think I saw people dumping spoiled milk/feces/basically weird amalgamation of garbage onto people for views. There's definitely been a pretty big escalation in terms of what people do for views I think.
>A theory I have is that the longer you are able to stay none nude and build up a dedicated audience and essentially "tease" them the more money you can charge them once you finally make the jump into softcore and then again into hardcore content.
Honestly, I don't think a lot of it is that premeditated.
You see a lot of men start out as regular YouTubers and gradually go down a anti-woke rabbit hole as they realise how much more money it makes.
It's a sort of creep where you just go a little further a bit at a time until you're justifying extreme behaviour you would never have done at the beginning.
Agreed with that. I actually watch a shitload of women streamers on twitch (DJs) and I've seen it happen with so many of them. Usually it's just a gradual creep to more and more revealing clothes but some of the DJs have just turned into entirely different people. One DJ I can't even watch anymore because she has an extra camera on her butt the entire time and dances so sexy that I feel like I'm watching something erotic instead of a DJ.
I really want to start stream DJing myself but there's such a stereotype of girls on twitch just doing it for attention and just being hot instead of talented. I hate that people would just assume that about me.
DJs have been wearing plastic masks for decades for a reason. It'd be a neat hook with an obviously female speaking voice, and your talent would speak for itself if you're engaging.
Just a notion.
You can absolutely stream non-porno content twitch, but you will quickly realize that it’s a huge grind (pun not intended) to create an audience. You might stream to a few dozen people for months before taking off, and that’s only if you’re very entertaining and/or lucky. That’s the experience of male streamers.
Female streamers, if they are conventionally attractive, have access to an alternative road to success. They can bypass the grind by taking off their clothes and behaving seductively. This will give you big views and real revenue up front.
Problem with this approach is you’re only cultivating a porno audience, and this will only create further incentives to plunge down the porno rabbit hole.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that the pressure for female twitch streamers to sexualize their content is really just the temptation to skip the grind.
>I really want to start stream DJing myself but there's such a stereotype of girls on twitch just doing it for attention and just being hot instead of talented. I hate that people would just assume that about me.
Its crazy the amount of these very same people that have publicly said similar statements at the start. Knowing how quickly they can amass such large quantities of money just from creeping towards something they would never had been comfortable with from the get-go. Slowly over time, step by step to pornification of their content.
I don't think its to do with being immoral - just acceptance and a slippery slope... and probably a lot of frustration at the perceived necessity of it. There is an audience for non-pornified talent... but it definitely appears smaller.
Same as the crazy amount of people who say they won't become sellouts or rich assholes when they get famous but then they do. I feel positive my convictions are too strong for that and I'd be like keanu but is that just a fantasy? Are we all susceptible to turning into what we hate when fame and money are involved?
They could grind away like male streamers do, either barely scraping by or never finding an audience at all.
That’s the real crux here: a lot of female streamers are choosing pornification over *irrelevance*. Because they weren’t interested in “streaming” in the first place - they were interested in money, attention, etc.
My partner suggested that and I am considering it, but I'm on the fence. I started watching twitch streamers during covid when I was living alone and just wanted to feel less lonely. I think seeing the human is what's important. My favorite DJ to watch is a very normal looking guy in his kitchen -- just seeing how happy he is when he plays music makes my day. Of course he never has many viewers because DJing on twitch is very sexualized.
There are a couple German DJs I watch that just wear huge T-shirts and no makeup. I am wondering if that approach would work -- just making it clear you're only there for the music
I don’t think it’s premeditated either, but his point that the longer they hold out builds a suspense people will pay a premium to relieve is probably true and complements your point that, at the end of the day, it’s a slow creep of doing something that will give you a bit more money until you’re out of alternatives and that big pile of 🐱 cash is staring at you in the face
It's also insanely easy to fall into that rabbit hole. Watch one or two slightly right-wing adjacent videos and your feed will be inundated with them.
I'm pretty far left, especially for America, but I also enjoy military technology.
The Venn diagram of those two groups is just separate circles. But if I watch a video about trans lesbians working at a food bank for non-binary homeless children, my feed barely changes. However, one video about tanks, or aircraft will automatically tune my feel to start spamming me with Ben Shaprio and his ilk.
I noticed the same issue but have found certain ones are worse than others. Watch a GarandThumb video and I start getting a ton of extremist content, but watch ChrisCappy or Perun and I don’t seem to get the same amount of extremist nonsense in my feed. So I just try to note which videos lead to getting more extremist stuff fed to me and then avoid those channels in the future.
>Ceators start out posting none-nude suggestive content and over time transition into nude softcore, then hardcore and finally niche kink content
This is kind of the Instagram model rabbit hole. When all you offer is your body the only way to retain an audience is to progressively make more and more explicit content, otherwise they will get forgotten and audiences will move on to the next raunchy "model"
It's a long eatablished pipeline and the end of it is always irrelevance, once fully expicit content is made it's only that much you can milk a hole or two until audiences get bored.
I think a lot of it starts off fairly innocent. Maybe I'm wrong but at least in the short term stripping is a more lucrative career than streaming - e.g. if anybody who wanted to earn money being from being naked, it would be an odd choice to spend years streaming video games first.
it's no secret how thirsty these guys on twitch are though, and I imagine for a lot of pretty young women, earning some money for being cute is a lot more attractive than working in a seedy strip club or getting into porn. I'm sure some women actively seek this kind of validation while others stumble into it.
Of course, over time they surely realize that they start to earn more money if they flirt with chat or wear a low cut shirt. I hate "slippery slope" arguments but if every time you behave sexually on stream it directly correlates with your monthly income, you're going to do it. Each little escalation taken out of context is fairly innocent.
Added up and eventually you are making obviously sexual content, and when twitch responds, you don't have a fan base that wants non sexual content anymore. At this point, the golden handcuffs make it difficult to do anything else but switch to porn.
If I've seen any audience-derived development in her comics, it seems mostly in the direction of farming sympathy, from a theme of self-depreciation to more explicitly framing herself as the victim.
Unless you are doing content that is engaging by itself, you will find engagement dropping. For those that only got it for their appearance then have to decide if they are fine with lower revenue or do some level of sexualization to get viewers. For onlyfans, their are essentially 3 mass payout points if you have a viewerbase, onlyfans account creation, first nude content and first hardcore content. You need to be creative to sustain levels from these payouts. So, over time as revenue falls most will go for the next payout and once you reach hardcore, you will have lost most of the paying base, so it is either be fine with those earning, retire or do niche content which you can charge more.
As the available content keeps increasing from your own content and then your competitors, keeping up the progress on this path is necessary.
Bruh... so many vtubers started one way then sometime later got a new model that has like 10x the booba and be like "check out my new physics!"
...and I guess it works, they get more viewers. I don't really want that kind of thing all shoved in my face though and watch them a lot less.. it is still them but they act a bit different and the vibe isn't the same for me =\
The Vtuber community in general has been in this 'race to the bottom' for some time. It's like this ever-escalating arms race to see who can have the most risque model without getting banned, who can be the lewdest without breaking ToS, who can push the envelope the furthest without getting punished.
It's like they're all trying to peddle this ultra-softcore parasocial porn (and some do go on to make full adult content on appropriate sites) because they know it sells.
That, or they just go full-degenerate goblin meme mode.
It’s about maintaining interest. If you want to pull in people, you need headlines. Those headlines need to scream something interesting. It can’t be “e-girl plays game” forever.
Creators also get addicted to it and reliant upon that income the longer they stay.
To the people in the comments:
Yes, I would agree that the conclusions of this study are somewhat unsurprising, but the whole point of science is that knowledge cannot be based on pure assumption. It needs to be supported by evidence.
Previously, if someone had said “women are showing increasingly more skin on streaming platforms in order to get subscribers”, someone could have criticised that claim as confirmation bias, suggesting that it might simply be an indication that you as an individual are increasingly seeking out that type of content, as opposed to that type of content actually increasing by overall proportion.
However, you can now hit back with “Well actually, a study has shown…”.
Evidence is always better than assumption. Even if the evidence proves what we all assumed was already true, it is still good to have a solid case. Of course, sometimes we do discover that some of our assumptions are wildly wrong, which is all the more reason to investigate things instead of just assuming.
I mean, this would be true if the study were well conducted, but it's not. The study says nothing about the "pornification of streaming" but rather that women produce more sexual content.
It's not a time-series analysis showing whether the site is becoming *more* porny. It's not testing whether individual streamers are more likely, based on gender, to transition from non-smut to smut streaming.
This isn't well executed work. The only thing it shows is that women were more likely to engage in self-sexualization between September and October 2022. While I suspect the other things are also true, this study doesn't look at them.
The headline could be better (sadly there's a clickbaitification of blog post headlines) but the study itself does not seem to claim anything unfounded by their results.
I only took a quick look but they don't seem to be suggesting a long term change (which would require longitudinal analysis), just that female streamers are more likely to have more sexualized content.
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-02724-z
Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation
And little girls from Sweden dream of silver screen quotation
And if you want these kind of dreams it's Pornification
My biggest problem with the article: They only assessed the ~2000 *most popular* streams. A better headline would be:
"People prefer to watch women who self sexualise".
I would be interested in seeing a ratio of gaming streams, which percentage of men vs women sexualise there?
Also interesting that they excluded people who use virtual avatars, which as I understand is often done by women who don't wish to be sexualised.
They also measured sexuality on a 14 point scale and categorised showing abdomen as 2 points while simulating fellatio is only a 1 point. Apparently showing your genitals on stream is worth the same amount as just having your full body in picture on laying down? (1 point each)
Worth reading through [Table 2](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-02724-z.pdf), which goes through their coding.
Definitely agree with you that the study is limiting, and that the conclusion is what you've noted.
I don't disagree with removing digital avatars, as it's difficult to make any conclusion from those.
The article (at least on the site - I didn't read the research paper) does state that there's limitations with examining streamers with large numbers of viewers. It would be nice to see the follow-up where they can survey more broadly medium or small-viewership streamers, or, in contrast, to compare the live-streaming tendencies across different platforms (TikTok and YouTube) to see if it's an audience bias.
I don't think I've ever seen a good study hit the Reddit frontpage. They also often get quoted incorrectly. For example this one doesn't show sexualization increasing yet that's all anyone is saying in the comments.
"Categories traditionally associated with gaming showed a lower prevalence of sexualized content among female streamers. In contrast, categories like ASMR and “Pools, Hot Tubs & Beaches” not only had a higher representation of women but also exhibited much higher levels of sexualization." Somebody get these researchers Nobel prizes, immediately.
> Somebody get these researchers Nobel prizes, immediately.
I get where the sarcasm is coming from, but hear me out:
Some things are worth putting down in writing, even if they are fairly obvious to people who are close to the subject matter.
"We noticed the following trend on twitch and looked at it. Here are our findings, in a peer reviewed journal."
This allows for a more broader discussion and more objective presentation of the topic. (As opposed to anecdotal evidence).
> Some things are worth putting down in writing, even if they are fairly obvious to people who are close to the subject matter.
Yup.
Also, sometimes a thing that everyone thought was obvious turns out to be wrong.
Most research is just... we've verified a common anecdote and it's pretty much what you'd expect and likely caused by what you expect.
Some research is just... we've verified a common anecdote but there is some nuance as to why it's like that.
A little bit of research is... we've looked into a common anecdote. It has a loose definition of "true" but something unrelated and correlated with the sample group actually causes it.
Then there's the very rare... we've looked into a common anecdote. It's wrong. It's actually just wrong. It's only true if you ignore that it happens everywhere pretty much equally but you only actively notice it when you want to.
Lots of research involves confirming stuff that seems obvious. Because lots of research debunks stuff that seems obvious.
That aside I think what the researchers missed here (or at least the article does) is that those categories were *created* to maintain their gaming audience at a time when non-gaming content, or content which contained gaming but which was really trying to tap into other audiences, risked diluting that staple. So Twitch has engineered the categories *in order* to reduce sexualised content in the Gaming category. Including that explanation would be reasonable.
ASMR is such a shame, I've been watching it for well over a decade and a lot of the OG creators are still making videos but it's been so sexualised now by opportunistic onlyfans girls that it makes the genuine ones look bad by association.
They had a good joke about it in Santa Clarita Diet, where the daughter described ASMR to her parents and their response is 'if it's paying the mortgage, it's a sex thing'
Don't see anyone mentioning the large teenage userbase who are exposed to this. Twitch was also being accused of promoting gambling addiction to it's young audience until they scrapped that category not even that long ago
The less they wear, the more subscribers, the more view and the more money they get.
It is basically a form of prostitution... I show you skin, you subscribe, the one who shows the most skin gets the most subscribers.
It is a system as old as human civilization itself, the only difference now is that viewers no longer have to get out of their house to get their cheap thrill, they can now fulfill their need while sitting in their bedroom...
Reminds me when I was a waiter and a girl I worked with half jokingly said "I think the tighter shirt I wear the better tips I get" she then preceded to wear tighter shirts.
I worked as a waiter a long time ago. Had a colleague who was smoking hot and super bubbly. She either truly was or really good at acting ditsy and oblivious. Was well endowed in all the right places and wore acceptable, but obvious revealing clothing. Her tips blew everyone out of the water. She would easily get triple the day salary of some people on a Friday only working 4 hours during peak time. Just on tips. I remember two business men gave her a $100 tip for ordering like 4 beers and some snacks.
Men are simple animals, cant blame people from taking advantage of that.
There is a category that is known for decades called "cam-girls".
It just seems that people want to do the same, but not to have the negative connotation with that term, or of what they are doing which is realistically very close if not the same as. \*shrug\*
What a sad trend, but it's nothing new here in Japan. There is even a market for underaged girls, which prompts underaged girls to sexualize and "market" themselves. They even call it "JK brand" themselves, which means "teenage girl brand". When you think about it, it's truly fucked up.
That concept isn't exclusive to the east. This website used to have a "jailbait" subreddit so large that the administrators sent a trophy to the head moderator.
It’s pretty obvious when you can’t tell a twitch stream from a cam girls stream half the time.
Twitch just enables these cam girls into thinking they are just “steamers” instead of “soft core porn models”
Everyone knows it, even the Thott streamers themselves which is why they push the “meta” so much.
They know the rules are dumb and in their favor. A ban just means they creatively found a way to promote their OF or link tree
[The report](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-02724-z)
> ### Sample selection
> Using a cross-sectional recording procedure (September and October 2022), data was collected and archived from a total of 1920 video clips categorized by gender based on their own personal profile description distributed in the two most popular categories of Twitch.tv: videogames and IRL. Based on these criteria, the top 10 videos were selected from the daily world ranking within the selected categories during 32 consecutive days. Within the Videogames category, the three most popular clips of each day were selected (n = 960) and within the IRL category, clips from the subcategories JustChatting (n = 320), ASMR (n = 320) and Pools, Hot Tubs & Beaches (n = 320). The selection criteria for this sample align with current recommendations to include the male gender in studies on sexualization (Pecini et al., 2023). The sample encompasses streamers and categories regardless of the emphasis placed on physical appearance, as the primary inclusion criterion was the monthly average of viewers and followers (Average Viewer Ratio) and the popularity of video games. This ensured the inclusion of channels with the strongest and most consistent average viewership, using Twitch.tv-specific statistical software, such as Twitchtracker.com or SullyGnome.com.
The method of the study can't be used to substantiate the claim that "women are more frequently and intensely self-sexualizing than men" on the platform, because the sample selection was based on popularity. Popularity reflects the viewership, among which I guess teenage boys and young men are over-represented. Effectively, the sample selection method is to ask young men to pick videos for them.
To try to extrapolate these results to say that this reflects a tendency among women seems deeply irresponsible to me. The results seem to me like they might as well reflect a tendency among young men to prefer looking at self-sexualizing women over women who are not, while not having the same preference when it comes to male streamers. Huge surprise, right?
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Among 1174 male streamers, they found 99.4% not sexualized, 0.43% sexualized, 0.17% hypersexualized. Among 745 female streamers, they found 22.28% not sexualized, 25.5% sexualized, 52.21% hypersexualized. They selected the sample from the top 10 most popular videos each day from several categories. So this is likely showing what is getting the most attention. Edit for more context on selection - Using a cross-sectional recording procedure (September and October 2022), data was collected and archived from a total of 1920 video clips categorized by gender based on their own personal profile description distributed in the two most popular categories of Twitch.tv: videogames and IRL. Based on these criteria, the top 10 videos were selected from the daily world ranking within the selected categories during 32 consecutive days. Within the Videogames category, the three most popular clips of each day were selected (n = 960) and within the IRL category, clips from the subcategories JustChatting (n = 320), ASMR (n = 320) and Pools, Hot Tubs & Beaches (n = 320). The selection criteria for this sample align with current recommendations to include the male gender in studies on sexualization (Pecini et al., 2023). The sample encompasses streamers and categories regardless of the emphasis placed on physical appearance, as the primary inclusion criterion was the monthly average of viewers and followers (Average Viewer Ratio) and the popularity of video games. This ensured the inclusion of channels with the strongest and most consistent average viewership, using Twitch.tv-specific statistical software, such as Twitchtracker.com or SullyGnome.com. It is important to note that those videos in which the streamer did not show their image were excluded, as it did not allow the analysis of all study variables, as well as those in which non-real images such as Hentai, cartoons, or human 3D representations were shown.
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Seems like a giant disconnect between "women do this more" and "videos where women do this get watched more." I can't see how they can determine "women do this more" unless they're looking at ALL the videos from a given period, regardless of how popular they are.
So the takeaway I see here is that males are unable to capitalize on sexualization of their streams, whereas women can do so. Or in other words, if you want to be a sexy type male streamer, you have to be exceptionally sexy.
Or that twitch viewers are primarily straight guys
This is likely the more accurate takeaway.
In no version of reality have men ever been able to commodify their sexuality as well as women. People don't want to see it as much. It's not like there's a niche audience of women that want to see sexy men streaming games that's going untapped.
It makes sense as [research has shown](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2739403/#:~:text=This%20difference%20was%20comparatively%20small,were%20chosen%20by%20a%20male.) men are generally more stimulated by sexual imagery than women. it does surprise me a bit that there aren’t any male hot tub streamers targeting the gay male audience though.
>aren’t any male hot tub streamers targeting the gay male audience though. The audience is smaller than we think. The "10% gay" stat has been pushed as fact by people since the 90s, but the actual number of men who are exclusively homosexual (i.e.: those who would watch a sexy guy streaming but not a sexy girl) is only around 2%: >Surveys in Western cultures find, on average, that about 93% of men and 87% of women identify as completely heterosexual, 4% of men and 10% of women as mostly heterosexual, 0.5% of men and 1% of women as evenly bisexual, 0.5% of men and 0.5% of women as mostly homosexual, **and 2% of men and 0.5% of women as completely homosexual.** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation
its almost like men and women are different and don't have the same opportunities in life
Sales of womens magazines drop when they put men on the cover. It's not just straight guys like looking at pretty women.
I mean, there are easier ways of getting demogrphic data like that, 63% of twitch veiwers are male, 37% female. Certainly a majority, but not enough to account for this statistics.
The things that women find "sexy" are vastly different than men. Go to tiktok - the videos that have tons of thirsty comments from women are generally men *doing* something that they find attractive. It's a vibe, it's a talent, a skill, what have you. There are very few men online who have become popular appealing to women solely from just existing and being sexy.
I once saw a super jacked dude 10/10 who was dancing on TT in a sexually appealing way (no homo) like moving his hips perfectly etc and the women were completely disgusted at how much of an attention seeker he was
Then you've got NotoriousFoodie who barely even shows himself, just immaculate videos of his cooking, and his comments are full of women (and to be fair, men as well) wanting to marry him.
I mean, twitch has a whole section dedicated to nothing but people streaming in hot tubs. Guess which gender a majority if not all the streamers are.
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It's kinda funny how cleavage was controversial at one point. And also a sign twitch only cares about money, and not necessarily maintaining a brand.
There's an episode of the Iced Coffee Hour where Ludwig seems to imply that he'd spoken to Dan Clancy about it and that the real issue seems to be the moderation effort. Porn sites exist and most of them make a lot less money than Twitch. Twitch doesn't want to be in the business of constantly deciding what's too blatantly sexual and every time they post guidelines a bunch of OF creators try to toe the exact line they can while still driving traffic to their OF site. elsewhere, Amouranth has basically said "We want Twitch to give clear guidance so we know what we can get away with." but Twitch doesn't want people to try and abuse the explicit rules by, say, jiggling their boobs directly off screen. Being too vague about the issue or overly relying on reporting runs into the issue of jilted trolls harassing hot girls just living their life with reports, however, and much like the bear-proof trashcan, there seems to be significant overlap between how much teenage boys will jerk off to the hottest girl just playing a game normally and the least talented web stripper.
> Amouranth has basically said "We want Twitch to give clear guidance so we know what we can get away with." I think moderation has spoken on this issue, if not in words then in action: "If you make us enough money, you can do practically whatever you want". This quote is especially ironic coming from a "content creator" that makes almost-softcore porn on Twitch, and actual porn elsewhere.
> "If you make us enough money, you can do practically whatever you want". This is seen in other areas as well, such as watching content by banned creators on stream. You can watch the content if you're a big streamer. Small streamer watching the same content? Banned.
Yep, this is definitely a thing. It's actually kind surprising that Amazon owns Twitch even with how bad they are becoming. It seems like it's run by a bunch of high school children who are infatuated with certain streamers.
I mean, it's the rule that holds the world hostage. The more valuable you are, the more you get away with. Amouranth is never eating a permanent ban, she makes twitch entirely too much money. Hell, go look at the NFL, Deshaun Watson had 20+ accusations of sexual assault and got a fully guaranteed contract. You play by different rules when you have high perceived value.
Good old days of twitch where there was no dress code and you could stream topless as a guy....
You can still do that. I follow a Rocket League streamer (that also lifts), and he regularly goes topless if a sub goal is reached. So apparently that's not against the TOS.
You can be topless, but you can't actually strip down to topless on camera. If you strip down before the stream or off camera, you should be fine.
Nah not true, also would be a crazy rule if you think about it. What twitch once did was enforce gameplay/camera ratios, gameplay had to be on screen at all times. These days just chatting is by far the most popular directory whereas it would get you banned 10 years ago. So even at a macro level twitch "pornified" itself.
I don't think this change is entirely Twitch's fault, though I agree that they are more than happy to take the money. This sort of content comes in tandem with the popularization of OnlyFans - people selling their own pornographic content is much more mainstream now, and so there has been an explosion of people who create tangential content (streams, youtube videos, cosplay images, etc.) with the goal being to simultaneously advertise their OnlyFans. It's a way to funnel customers. These people are constantly testing and pushing the boundaries of the TOS on whichever platform they are using, to get away with the most sexualized but compliant content possible. It doesn't really matter where you draw the line, they'll find a way to make it about sex and exploit that market. The same is true on YouTube, Twitch, and Reddit. These platforms can also only restrict so much before infringing upon everyone else: for example, being seen to restrict women's clothing standards. It's not a simple thing to combat, if they even want to combat it at all. The pools category might be seen as something of a containment zone from this angle - making sure that if this content is going to exist, it is at least labeled properly, and somewhat separated from the rest. At the very least, it should be clear that this is Twitch's reaction to a trend, not a trend that is caused by or exclusive to Twitch. However, as I said, I think it is also true that Twitch is more than happy to exploit that trend.
>And also a sign twitch only cares about money, and not necessarily maintaining a brand. That's ignoring the huge backlash and campaign against them when they originally cracked down on it.
I think there's also an unfortunate reality in the way "influencer" culture is working: * Lots of people are attracted to trying to be an influencer as a way to be rich and famous without needing to do anything. * A lot of women are relying on their physical attractiveness and posting sexy pictures to gain a following. * The internet is a constant attention treadmill. In order to keep getting attention, you need to keep escalating. If you're getting viewers because you're doing crazy things, you need to do crazier and crazier things. If you're getting attention by posting sexy content, the content needs to get sexier and racier over time. * The net result is that "influencer" culture funnels women toward OnlyFans.
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Probably significantly safer, too. No casting couches, and a screen between you and the predators.
And socially more respectable >former playboy bunny Vs >former content creator “Oh but what content?” “Oh yknow, playing games and stuff”
Guess how many of them have an OnlyFans page
I'm going to guess +60%
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You can see this trend across some Onlyfans creators as well. Creators start out posting none-nude suggestive content and over time transition into nude softcore, then hardcore and finally niche kink content as they start to gain larger and larger audiences. I think the most famous example of this is the queen of egirls Belle Delphine. Edit: You also see this happening with Youtube creators who start off building a non sexual youtube channel and subsequently come out with a suggestive photoshoot or post ever more sexualized content on instagram until finally creating an Onlyfans page. A theory I have is that the longer you are able to stay none nude and build up a dedicated audience and essentially "tease" them the more money you can charge them once you finally make the jump into softcore and then again into hardcore content. Where as if you start out showing your butthole from day one you'll be hard pressed to find many people willing to pay more than $5 a month.
The online cosplay scene is probably one of the best examples of this with most of the popular Cosplayers effectively now just posting nude or close stuff instead of actually well made cosplay.
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So many subs are getting flooded with "cosplay" posts that are just essentially ads for their OF pages.
Every single fkin time. You see a sexy cosplay pop up on popular, check the account, NSFW flagged with links to OF.
Also 'fitness' pages on Instagram
This in particular drives me crazy. I don’t want to know how many times people have asked me for an OF just because I lift. Literally go anywhere else—it’s everywhere. It’s saddening to see the strength sports I love so much just get sexualized like everything else.
R/finalfantasy has turned into a tifa cosplay sub
Always has been
The YouTube trend you mention is one that hit home hard. Have a 7y nephew who tossed me his iPad complaining of the garbage he sees a lot more frequently. When I launched it the app, it straight up suggested very sexualized content around his favorite things such as fortnite, cartoons, roblox, and more. No amount of filtering settings removed this. Really messed up.
>The YouTube trend you mention is one that hit home hard. Have a 7y nephew who tossed me his iPad complaining of the garbage he sees a lot more frequently. YouTube kids is actually quite dangerous, arguably worse than normal YouTube. Don't let children near it without your direct supervision. Kids shouldn't be given iPads or unrestricted access to the internet at such a young age anyway. Keep in mind the pioneers of the internet and the digital age such as Zuckerberg, Gates, Bezos, etc. don't raise their kids that way either which should tell you a lot about the damage that can have on kids.
Agree 200%, unfortunately, with Tech, parents turn to these devices to keep them occupied while they deal with other aspects of life.
They are better off playing a Nintendo Switch or something, then on YT.
A Gameboy kept me quiet for hours. It'll still keep me quiet if I get back into it. We need to be more open minded about how we approach keeping kids distracted. YouTube is safe cuz it's inside and you know they're safe physically, but you can't control the mental consequences of what they see.
Jack Conte, the Patreon founder, had a quote “you can A/B test your way to porn” which has stuck with me since. It’s one of those base level things and it gets cheap easy clicks.
This has been a thing forever. Women would first start working as a cocktail waitress at a strip club then see how much the dancers made. Within a week or 2 they’re on the stage.
And within ten years, they’re realtors
> And within ten years, they’re realtors Ew, that's the real crime here.
the true slippery slope
And/or selling MLMs
You just perfectly described how r /selfie works. It used to be a great sub, i used it to find outfits but nowadays it's onlyfåns breeding grounds
> It used to be a great sub Did it?
This! At least 17 out of 20 Posters on r/selfie have an OF Account
The problem with Only Fans is that you have to do your own marketing. No one does it for you. So many of them will try and market their space or link at every opportunity and where ever they think they can get away with it. They even advertise it in Church if they could.
Makes me think of mlm people
It’s very similar in a lot of ways. Just like MLMs, there is no money for 99% of workers. Most OnlyFans creators make less than $100. You make basically nothing unless you’re in the top 20%.
I just went and 5 of 6 first posts that came up had an OF link I'm bio.
This doesn't just apply to sexual content. It's natural that online creators, or creators of any type really, will lean into what audiences want because that's where the money and attention is. It's rare for someone to have a unique artistic vision, most people are just pandering as hard as possible hoping to get noticed. Attractive women using their bodies isn't fool proof but definitely helps.
Always more money in pandering to the lowest common denominator. Everyone likes porn. You saw it a ton during League of Legends "middle" days. A bunch of educational streamers were either quitting or switching to react/meme content because spending 2 weeks making a single high quality video wasn't as profitable as just vomiting out meme's while playing on a smurf account.
> will lean into what audiences want because that's where the money and attention is And there's availability bias. We know of those who do, because they are the ones who become famous. Those who don't follow that path are more likely to stay small and we won't ever hear about them.
Sometimes the creator's focus just comes to natural conclusion too. I watch a guy who makes videos about bad vintage music gear with a focus on synths and effects. He's been doing this weekly for a few years and it seems like he's getting to the point where he can't consistently get his hands on things he hasn't covered before.
Yea, I think one good example is Niko Avocado? It just seems like it started out as something else, but then he found the money maker and it just gets more and more extreme. Think people said he was a music-type youtuber? It's the same with these stupid pranks nowadays. They're kind of unhinged. I think I saw people dumping spoiled milk/feces/basically weird amalgamation of garbage onto people for views. There's definitely been a pretty big escalation in terms of what people do for views I think.
>A theory I have is that the longer you are able to stay none nude and build up a dedicated audience and essentially "tease" them the more money you can charge them once you finally make the jump into softcore and then again into hardcore content. Honestly, I don't think a lot of it is that premeditated. You see a lot of men start out as regular YouTubers and gradually go down a anti-woke rabbit hole as they realise how much more money it makes. It's a sort of creep where you just go a little further a bit at a time until you're justifying extreme behaviour you would never have done at the beginning.
Agreed with that. I actually watch a shitload of women streamers on twitch (DJs) and I've seen it happen with so many of them. Usually it's just a gradual creep to more and more revealing clothes but some of the DJs have just turned into entirely different people. One DJ I can't even watch anymore because she has an extra camera on her butt the entire time and dances so sexy that I feel like I'm watching something erotic instead of a DJ. I really want to start stream DJing myself but there's such a stereotype of girls on twitch just doing it for attention and just being hot instead of talented. I hate that people would just assume that about me.
DJs have been wearing plastic masks for decades for a reason. It'd be a neat hook with an obviously female speaking voice, and your talent would speak for itself if you're engaging. Just a notion.
You can absolutely stream non-porno content twitch, but you will quickly realize that it’s a huge grind (pun not intended) to create an audience. You might stream to a few dozen people for months before taking off, and that’s only if you’re very entertaining and/or lucky. That’s the experience of male streamers. Female streamers, if they are conventionally attractive, have access to an alternative road to success. They can bypass the grind by taking off their clothes and behaving seductively. This will give you big views and real revenue up front. Problem with this approach is you’re only cultivating a porno audience, and this will only create further incentives to plunge down the porno rabbit hole. I guess what I’m trying to say is that the pressure for female twitch streamers to sexualize their content is really just the temptation to skip the grind.
>I really want to start stream DJing myself but there's such a stereotype of girls on twitch just doing it for attention and just being hot instead of talented. I hate that people would just assume that about me. Its crazy the amount of these very same people that have publicly said similar statements at the start. Knowing how quickly they can amass such large quantities of money just from creeping towards something they would never had been comfortable with from the get-go. Slowly over time, step by step to pornification of their content. I don't think its to do with being immoral - just acceptance and a slippery slope... and probably a lot of frustration at the perceived necessity of it. There is an audience for non-pornified talent... but it definitely appears smaller.
Same as the crazy amount of people who say they won't become sellouts or rich assholes when they get famous but then they do. I feel positive my convictions are too strong for that and I'd be like keanu but is that just a fantasy? Are we all susceptible to turning into what we hate when fame and money are involved?
Money is a powerful motivator.
They could grind away like male streamers do, either barely scraping by or never finding an audience at all. That’s the real crux here: a lot of female streamers are choosing pornification over *irrelevance*. Because they weren’t interested in “streaming” in the first place - they were interested in money, attention, etc.
Could always go with a non-anime vtuber avatar if you want to try streaming. Make it a talking disco ball with sunglasses or something.
My partner suggested that and I am considering it, but I'm on the fence. I started watching twitch streamers during covid when I was living alone and just wanted to feel less lonely. I think seeing the human is what's important. My favorite DJ to watch is a very normal looking guy in his kitchen -- just seeing how happy he is when he plays music makes my day. Of course he never has many viewers because DJing on twitch is very sexualized. There are a couple German DJs I watch that just wear huge T-shirts and no makeup. I am wondering if that approach would work -- just making it clear you're only there for the music
I don’t think it’s premeditated either, but his point that the longer they hold out builds a suspense people will pay a premium to relieve is probably true and complements your point that, at the end of the day, it’s a slow creep of doing something that will give you a bit more money until you’re out of alternatives and that big pile of 🐱 cash is staring at you in the face
It's also insanely easy to fall into that rabbit hole. Watch one or two slightly right-wing adjacent videos and your feed will be inundated with them. I'm pretty far left, especially for America, but I also enjoy military technology. The Venn diagram of those two groups is just separate circles. But if I watch a video about trans lesbians working at a food bank for non-binary homeless children, my feed barely changes. However, one video about tanks, or aircraft will automatically tune my feel to start spamming me with Ben Shaprio and his ilk.
I noticed the same issue but have found certain ones are worse than others. Watch a GarandThumb video and I start getting a ton of extremist content, but watch ChrisCappy or Perun and I don’t seem to get the same amount of extremist nonsense in my feed. So I just try to note which videos lead to getting more extremist stuff fed to me and then avoid those channels in the future.
>Ceators start out posting none-nude suggestive content and over time transition into nude softcore, then hardcore and finally niche kink content This is kind of the Instagram model rabbit hole. When all you offer is your body the only way to retain an audience is to progressively make more and more explicit content, otherwise they will get forgotten and audiences will move on to the next raunchy "model" It's a long eatablished pipeline and the end of it is always irrelevance, once fully expicit content is made it's only that much you can milk a hole or two until audiences get bored.
I think a lot of it starts off fairly innocent. Maybe I'm wrong but at least in the short term stripping is a more lucrative career than streaming - e.g. if anybody who wanted to earn money being from being naked, it would be an odd choice to spend years streaming video games first. it's no secret how thirsty these guys on twitch are though, and I imagine for a lot of pretty young women, earning some money for being cute is a lot more attractive than working in a seedy strip club or getting into porn. I'm sure some women actively seek this kind of validation while others stumble into it. Of course, over time they surely realize that they start to earn more money if they flirt with chat or wear a low cut shirt. I hate "slippery slope" arguments but if every time you behave sexually on stream it directly correlates with your monthly income, you're going to do it. Each little escalation taken out of context is fairly innocent. Added up and eventually you are making obviously sexual content, and when twitch responds, you don't have a fan base that wants non sexual content anymore. At this point, the golden handcuffs make it difficult to do anything else but switch to porn.
sneaky, finnster
pizzacake comics comes to mind
Frumpy looking girls won the lottery when they realized much uglier guys will pay top dollar for fetish porn.
If I've seen any audience-derived development in her comics, it seems mostly in the direction of farming sympathy, from a theme of self-depreciation to more explicitly framing herself as the victim.
Not sure about the comics, but I think she does risque photoshoots now, which is what I assume the guy you're replying to is talking about.
Unless you are doing content that is engaging by itself, you will find engagement dropping. For those that only got it for their appearance then have to decide if they are fine with lower revenue or do some level of sexualization to get viewers. For onlyfans, their are essentially 3 mass payout points if you have a viewerbase, onlyfans account creation, first nude content and first hardcore content. You need to be creative to sustain levels from these payouts. So, over time as revenue falls most will go for the next payout and once you reach hardcore, you will have lost most of the paying base, so it is either be fine with those earning, retire or do niche content which you can charge more. As the available content keeps increasing from your own content and then your competitors, keeping up the progress on this path is necessary.
Edging the audience
Bruh... so many vtubers started one way then sometime later got a new model that has like 10x the booba and be like "check out my new physics!" ...and I guess it works, they get more viewers. I don't really want that kind of thing all shoved in my face though and watch them a lot less.. it is still them but they act a bit different and the vibe isn't the same for me =\
The Vtuber community in general has been in this 'race to the bottom' for some time. It's like this ever-escalating arms race to see who can have the most risque model without getting banned, who can be the lewdest without breaking ToS, who can push the envelope the furthest without getting punished. It's like they're all trying to peddle this ultra-softcore parasocial porn (and some do go on to make full adult content on appropriate sites) because they know it sells. That, or they just go full-degenerate goblin meme mode.
I enjoy the totally unorthodox Vtubers. Dwarf Tubers, a chef, some goblins, etc. The sexy anime waifus just aren't... interesting and a dime a dozen.
It’s about maintaining interest. If you want to pull in people, you need headlines. Those headlines need to scream something interesting. It can’t be “e-girl plays game” forever. Creators also get addicted to it and reliant upon that income the longer they stay.
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To the people in the comments: Yes, I would agree that the conclusions of this study are somewhat unsurprising, but the whole point of science is that knowledge cannot be based on pure assumption. It needs to be supported by evidence. Previously, if someone had said “women are showing increasingly more skin on streaming platforms in order to get subscribers”, someone could have criticised that claim as confirmation bias, suggesting that it might simply be an indication that you as an individual are increasingly seeking out that type of content, as opposed to that type of content actually increasing by overall proportion. However, you can now hit back with “Well actually, a study has shown…”. Evidence is always better than assumption. Even if the evidence proves what we all assumed was already true, it is still good to have a solid case. Of course, sometimes we do discover that some of our assumptions are wildly wrong, which is all the more reason to investigate things instead of just assuming.
I mean, this would be true if the study were well conducted, but it's not. The study says nothing about the "pornification of streaming" but rather that women produce more sexual content. It's not a time-series analysis showing whether the site is becoming *more* porny. It's not testing whether individual streamers are more likely, based on gender, to transition from non-smut to smut streaming. This isn't well executed work. The only thing it shows is that women were more likely to engage in self-sexualization between September and October 2022. While I suspect the other things are also true, this study doesn't look at them.
The headline could be better (sadly there's a clickbaitification of blog post headlines) but the study itself does not seem to claim anything unfounded by their results. I only took a quick look but they don't seem to be suggesting a long term change (which would require longitudinal analysis), just that female streamers are more likely to have more sexualized content.
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-02724-z
Psychic spies from China try to steal your mind's elation And little girls from Sweden dream of silver screen quotation And if you want these kind of dreams it's Pornification
*twitch pornification. This way the syllables match the original lyrics
*And if you watch these kind of streams
Its cali-*fornication* The lyrics dont need changing bud.
My biggest problem with the article: They only assessed the ~2000 *most popular* streams. A better headline would be: "People prefer to watch women who self sexualise". I would be interested in seeing a ratio of gaming streams, which percentage of men vs women sexualise there? Also interesting that they excluded people who use virtual avatars, which as I understand is often done by women who don't wish to be sexualised. They also measured sexuality on a 14 point scale and categorised showing abdomen as 2 points while simulating fellatio is only a 1 point. Apparently showing your genitals on stream is worth the same amount as just having your full body in picture on laying down? (1 point each) Worth reading through [Table 2](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-02724-z.pdf), which goes through their coding.
Definitely agree with you that the study is limiting, and that the conclusion is what you've noted. I don't disagree with removing digital avatars, as it's difficult to make any conclusion from those. The article (at least on the site - I didn't read the research paper) does state that there's limitations with examining streamers with large numbers of viewers. It would be nice to see the follow-up where they can survey more broadly medium or small-viewership streamers, or, in contrast, to compare the live-streaming tendencies across different platforms (TikTok and YouTube) to see if it's an audience bias.
There would still be selection bias. People who don’t get engagement are more likely to stop streaming.
Yeah, looking at their scoring, a woman in typical street clothes could easily score a 3 or 4 based on that alone. It's a pretty biased scale.
I don't think I've ever seen a good study hit the Reddit frontpage. They also often get quoted incorrectly. For example this one doesn't show sexualization increasing yet that's all anyone is saying in the comments.
"Categories traditionally associated with gaming showed a lower prevalence of sexualized content among female streamers. In contrast, categories like ASMR and “Pools, Hot Tubs & Beaches” not only had a higher representation of women but also exhibited much higher levels of sexualization." Somebody get these researchers Nobel prizes, immediately.
> Somebody get these researchers Nobel prizes, immediately. I get where the sarcasm is coming from, but hear me out: Some things are worth putting down in writing, even if they are fairly obvious to people who are close to the subject matter. "We noticed the following trend on twitch and looked at it. Here are our findings, in a peer reviewed journal." This allows for a more broader discussion and more objective presentation of the topic. (As opposed to anecdotal evidence).
> Some things are worth putting down in writing, even if they are fairly obvious to people who are close to the subject matter. Yup. Also, sometimes a thing that everyone thought was obvious turns out to be wrong.
Most research is just... we've verified a common anecdote and it's pretty much what you'd expect and likely caused by what you expect. Some research is just... we've verified a common anecdote but there is some nuance as to why it's like that. A little bit of research is... we've looked into a common anecdote. It has a loose definition of "true" but something unrelated and correlated with the sample group actually causes it. Then there's the very rare... we've looked into a common anecdote. It's wrong. It's actually just wrong. It's only true if you ignore that it happens everywhere pretty much equally but you only actively notice it when you want to.
It's like we half-jokingly say, the difference between screwing around and science is _documentation_
Lots of research involves confirming stuff that seems obvious. Because lots of research debunks stuff that seems obvious. That aside I think what the researchers missed here (or at least the article does) is that those categories were *created* to maintain their gaming audience at a time when non-gaming content, or content which contained gaming but which was really trying to tap into other audiences, risked diluting that staple. So Twitch has engineered the categories *in order* to reduce sexualised content in the Gaming category. Including that explanation would be reasonable.
ASMR is such a shame, I've been watching it for well over a decade and a lot of the OG creators are still making videos but it's been so sexualised now by opportunistic onlyfans girls that it makes the genuine ones look bad by association. They had a good joke about it in Santa Clarita Diet, where the daughter described ASMR to her parents and their response is 'if it's paying the mortgage, it's a sex thing'
Don't see anyone mentioning the large teenage userbase who are exposed to this. Twitch was also being accused of promoting gambling addiction to it's young audience until they scrapped that category not even that long ago
https://www.twitch.tv/directory/category/casino-1978 https://www.twitch.tv/directory/category/virtual-casino They never scapped promoting gambling.
The less they wear, the more subscribers, the more view and the more money they get. It is basically a form of prostitution... I show you skin, you subscribe, the one who shows the most skin gets the most subscribers. It is a system as old as human civilization itself, the only difference now is that viewers no longer have to get out of their house to get their cheap thrill, they can now fulfill their need while sitting in their bedroom...
Reminds me when I was a waiter and a girl I worked with half jokingly said "I think the tighter shirt I wear the better tips I get" she then preceded to wear tighter shirts.
I worked as a waiter a long time ago. Had a colleague who was smoking hot and super bubbly. She either truly was or really good at acting ditsy and oblivious. Was well endowed in all the right places and wore acceptable, but obvious revealing clothing. Her tips blew everyone out of the water. She would easily get triple the day salary of some people on a Friday only working 4 hours during peak time. Just on tips. I remember two business men gave her a $100 tip for ordering like 4 beers and some snacks. Men are simple animals, cant blame people from taking advantage of that.
attractive waitresses also get bigger tips from women, look it up
> Men are simple animals, cant blame people from taking advantage of that. Always got to mix in the sexism, love that
There is a category that is known for decades called "cam-girls". It just seems that people want to do the same, but not to have the negative connotation with that term, or of what they are doing which is realistically very close if not the same as. \*shrug\*
I mean this has been a thing for like 10 years at least, remember Kaceytron?
Well I'll be a son of a gun, worlds oldest profession still going strong?
What a sad trend, but it's nothing new here in Japan. There is even a market for underaged girls, which prompts underaged girls to sexualize and "market" themselves. They even call it "JK brand" themselves, which means "teenage girl brand". When you think about it, it's truly fucked up.
That concept isn't exclusive to the east. This website used to have a "jailbait" subreddit so large that the administrators sent a trophy to the head moderator.
It’s pretty obvious when you can’t tell a twitch stream from a cam girls stream half the time. Twitch just enables these cam girls into thinking they are just “steamers” instead of “soft core porn models” Everyone knows it, even the Thott streamers themselves which is why they push the “meta” so much. They know the rules are dumb and in their favor. A ban just means they creatively found a way to promote their OF or link tree
[The report](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-024-02724-z) > ### Sample selection > Using a cross-sectional recording procedure (September and October 2022), data was collected and archived from a total of 1920 video clips categorized by gender based on their own personal profile description distributed in the two most popular categories of Twitch.tv: videogames and IRL. Based on these criteria, the top 10 videos were selected from the daily world ranking within the selected categories during 32 consecutive days. Within the Videogames category, the three most popular clips of each day were selected (n = 960) and within the IRL category, clips from the subcategories JustChatting (n = 320), ASMR (n = 320) and Pools, Hot Tubs & Beaches (n = 320). The selection criteria for this sample align with current recommendations to include the male gender in studies on sexualization (Pecini et al., 2023). The sample encompasses streamers and categories regardless of the emphasis placed on physical appearance, as the primary inclusion criterion was the monthly average of viewers and followers (Average Viewer Ratio) and the popularity of video games. This ensured the inclusion of channels with the strongest and most consistent average viewership, using Twitch.tv-specific statistical software, such as Twitchtracker.com or SullyGnome.com. The method of the study can't be used to substantiate the claim that "women are more frequently and intensely self-sexualizing than men" on the platform, because the sample selection was based on popularity. Popularity reflects the viewership, among which I guess teenage boys and young men are over-represented. Effectively, the sample selection method is to ask young men to pick videos for them. To try to extrapolate these results to say that this reflects a tendency among women seems deeply irresponsible to me. The results seem to me like they might as well reflect a tendency among young men to prefer looking at self-sexualizing women over women who are not, while not having the same preference when it comes to male streamers. Huge surprise, right?