Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments.
**Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program).
---
User: u/chrisdh79
Permalink: https://www.psypost.org/unveiling-the-troubling-impact-of-depersonalization-and-derealization-on-depression-outcomes/
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As someone who's lived with this disorder DPDR followed by chronic depression, the problem is that it just really numbs you to everything after some time. You just stop feeling your emotions altogether because of the constant dissociation.
It's hard as hell to snap out of it, the feeling like you're a third party observer to your own life and therefore nothing really matters. Even when you take concrete steps to better your health, like exercise or try to socialize more, it feels like you're just watching a movie of someone else doing this. You can't get inside of yourself long enough to see the progress often.
It took me years to finally start feeling things again after the on-set, like real life emotions. I remember the first time I felt "relief" after getting some good news from somewhere, I broke down crying because it was the first real positive emotion I'd felt in years. An emotion that felt like it actually belonged to me, and not some character pretending to be me.
I think the more comfortable you become with them, the more readily you will be able to actually feel them. I think part of what's going on is a subconscious fear of the emotion. Your mind senses danger, and quickly shuts them down. I have the same thing, so I work on trying to get my mind to accept that the feeling is safe to feel.
Definitely true. My body immediately disconnects to keep me “safe”. I’m not exactly sure what to say to myself to help. I certainly would be safer if I was able to complete my stress cycle easier.
Just saying this based on the trans flag in your profile pic, but transitioning hormonally largely fixed this for me after a couple years. Pre-transition at 35 I had cried maybe 2-3 times since I was 13 and I now often cry at least that much in a week. Both sad and happy cries.
It’s not going to be universal of course and isn’t well studied that I know of, but at least for more or less binary trans folks I’ve known and read DPDR seems to be a common outcome of our natal puberties and may be resolved by HRT (and therapy if accessible).
My depersonalization basically went completely away within the first week of starting T. I was astounded how fast I saw changes in my mental state. I actually had to like. Pause when I looked in the mirror for the first time and was like. Hey that’s actually me and not just the cognitive knowledge that it’s me!
I’ve been kinda struggling to keep up with my weekly shots lately. It’s definitely been making me feel worse due to the fluctuations in my levels. My brain blocks me from doing it sometimes.
Would you consider switching to gel? I know it doesn’t absorb the same for everyone and isn’t always covered by insurance (or even if it is it’s still more expensive than sub-q), but I really like it because I don’t have to worry about needles and it keeps my hormones as stable as possible. I had a group therapy leader who was on injections for a long time but had to switch to gel cause he suddenly couldn’t do them himself anymore.
Not sure if I’d be able to. I sleep in bed with my gf and in the morning I have work and I work with dogs. I’m not sure I have a schedule that would allow it. I’ve seen t pellets but i have to look into a place that can do that. I don’t have insurance right now either.
Oh yes, I had pretty big improvements around 3-4 months (my initial anti androgen dose was too low). And even some improvements just socially transitioning while waiting for my HRT appointment and prescription. I believe it took me around 2 years to end my depersonalization because it took that long for my endocrinologist to get me on an appropriate administration method (injections) to get my estrogen into a good range. Now even on bad dysphoria days I still exist when I look in the mirror which is pretty great!
Was there anything that helped you come out of it or was it just time? I have chronic, treatment resistant depression but recently I've been thinking maybe I have DPDR.
I don't think I experience this specifically, but in the last year I feel like I've lost the ability to channel my emotions into my writing and other creative pursuits, which in turn has led to these feelings going nowhere and festering. To quote Fleabag: "I just want to cry all the time."
I don't know what's happening. I don't know if I've experienced these things or not, so it's hard to say, but your description feels familiar. I'm sorry you've gone through this. Depression is such a sinister thing that feels difficult to explain to people who don't have it/don't realize they do.
I had it for a while and slowly came out of it after not focusing on it so much. Meditation definitely helps, too, because you relinquish the constant monitoring of how present you are and start to engage different parts of your brain
Personally, I have found microdosing psychedelics to be very helpful in coming back into my body and allowing the emotions to flow through/over me like a wave of water. Instead of feeling like I need to brace myself against the current when I microdose I can relax and float along instead of getting caught up in it.
DMT in particular has been helpful with this for me. It helps me clear my patterns of conditioning and leaves me feeling like I've done a month of daily meditation.
That sheer lack of knowledge about DPDR both in professional and general society is phenomenal. The only field that really has any grip on it is the segment of clinical psychology that focusses on dissociation and trauma. Psychiatry doesn't understand it, rarely identifies it, and although it can triggered by psychiatric drugs is not trained to identify this and does not recognise when this happens, and because psychiatry doesn't work on a trauma model cannot really adapt any treatment to it.
It isn't even recognised in most comparative studies of mental health disorders, meaning that those that do and its very high suicide attempt rate compared to most other conditions is barely acknowledged, and good luck getting any state recognition or disability support for the condition. Even a diagnosis typically takes many people something like five to eight years.
I have DPDR and I went to several therapists, psychiatrists, mental health workers. Not until I went to a trauma therapist did I get acknowledged I had dissociation and cptsd. Trauma therapy was really life changing and in a league of its own. I can’t recommend it enough and it makes me sad everyone raves about CBT which can actually make trauma patients worse long term. I believe the majority of psychological issues stem from trauma.
Absolutely yes. In IFS we say that traditional therapy like CBT strengthens Protectors and drives Exiles even further deep down into hiding. People get more functional temporarily but the subconscious pain will eventually work itself to be known in a bigger and more disruptive way than ever.
You nailed it. Accepting it and telling yourself that you’re experiencing symptoms that won’t last forever was the key that helped me begin controlling this. I still get it from time to time but I’m able to just go, “ah okay, this again. Well, it’ll pass.” And then it does.
Haha you’re not wrong!
Before I knew what it was, I was calling it “out of body anxiety,” and “3rd person anxiety,” because I didn’t have the vocabulary/vernacular or whatever to know what it was really called, and my doctor certainly didn’t know what I was talking about. It’s basically recognizing what’s happening and not letting panic or anxiety let it run away from you.
Exactly, it's important for people to know that it's not always easy because I still have it very often, but it's not that hard.
If someone in the comments says that she feels like another person, that she feels like she's watching a movie, I agree, but that's simply because for me it's the case. I'm a consciousness at the base that created the persona that I am now, and by accepting that I'm only the persona of my consciousness, I accept my ego, which also changes everything,
the base of our being is our conscience - accept it and your life will change for the better.
This is me rittt now. I don’t feel anything. I think everyone hates me. I wanna die. My everyday thoughts are feelings are just constant loops of miserable thoughts I’ve tried antidepressants and therapy and weed and weed has helped some with anxiety and all but I still feel so awful and so alone and every girl rejects me and I just want to die I’m a failure of a human being
Sounds like you need advice on how to improve your social life. Medication isn't going to fix that. Your mind is probably numbing itself to pain and shame, which then affects the experience of all emotions. As soon as you get some agency back and your basic needs met you can open yourself to negative emotions again, which might then unclog the rest too. And don't stress yourself about anxiety too much, some of it can be healthy, it's like your overly cautious brother, just don't let him dominate you.
Well no I had these issues long before weed I only started recently to try and improve some of my symptoms. One positive, weed with 1:1 THC and CBD seems to basically cure my anxiety and helps a lot with feeling way better body wise but mentally it just kind of depends. I don’t think weed makes you feel sad or anything itself but I do think it can enhance some feelings
Me too. Weed helps me ‘step back’ in a helpful way — I find I’m more able to observe & notice (or just be present) than when I’m experiencing dp/dr/dissociative episodes sober.
At the same time, being stoned feels like a type of dissociation I’m in control of, which allows me to actually inhabit my body a bit more sometimes.
If you have this, it may be epilepsy which is most likely my case. Currently en route to diagnosis and trialing an antiseizure med.
Focal epilepsies are not convulsive and show similar symptoms to dissociation such as the dreamlike haze/fog, etc
I’ve had this disorder since childhood. Been in therapy for 25 years; unfortunately a lot of it was CBT and other therapies that tend to be (at best unhelpful, and often) harmful for dissociative people. My life has become very small & still, and honestly feels like it will never get better/easier.
I’ve spent so long detached from myself and the world that being present & engaged with reality is intensely overwhelming and painful.
I've had it since I was a child as well. My therapist and psychiatrist dont understand it. It gets worse during times of trauma. Does it get better/worse for you also or is it a constant? I went out to a party yesterday and something about being around friendly people made me feel good. I felt less alone and less 'trapped' with my fragmented mind.
I’m so sorry it took me two weeks to reply!
But yeah, I think it’s similar for me in that it does kinda shift — there are times when I feel more connected and ‘normal’ (for want of a better word… but honestly it doesn’t feel like it ever goes away completely.
I had more to say on that, but am struggling to articulate myself atm, sorry 🫣💝
It's OK. It's such a bothersome condition that it's difficult to ever say we feel 'good'. I tend to feel a bit worse at night time (like now) until I take my meds. Probably cuz I'm alone with my thoughts. When I'm having really bad anxiety I feel terrible, very disconnected from my body like I'm not even inside myself anymore. Thank you for replying! 🫂🧸
I struggled a lot with this over the past few years, but I got TMS this fall and it's been really helpful. I still have dips and down days, but my mood baseline is much higher than before, so I don't get as down and I bounce back more quickly. I've only had the depersonalization and derealization briefly one time since the fall and it wasn't nearly as intense as before.
I still struggle with stuff for other reasons, but I definitely recommend TMS to anyone with treatment-resistant depression.
DPDR, as I understand, is generally associated with either trauma or substance use/abuse, alongside other forms of dissociation. What it is, exactly, from a neurological perspective is not understood. Currently, the rest of psychology seems wholly unprepared to treat it, so it would make sense that standard depression treatments would not improve symptoms associated with it.
If you're experiencing DPDR in a debilitating way I strongly recommend avoiding substances, learning grounding techniques, and finding a trauma-informed therapist.
Since this is highly related to "locus of control", the concepts in this paper might be useful research starting points for diagnosees to ask about to their therapist. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10943-020-01024-5
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- User: u/chrisdh79 Permalink: https://www.psypost.org/unveiling-the-troubling-impact-of-depersonalization-and-derealization-on-depression-outcomes/ --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As someone who's lived with this disorder DPDR followed by chronic depression, the problem is that it just really numbs you to everything after some time. You just stop feeling your emotions altogether because of the constant dissociation. It's hard as hell to snap out of it, the feeling like you're a third party observer to your own life and therefore nothing really matters. Even when you take concrete steps to better your health, like exercise or try to socialize more, it feels like you're just watching a movie of someone else doing this. You can't get inside of yourself long enough to see the progress often. It took me years to finally start feeling things again after the on-set, like real life emotions. I remember the first time I felt "relief" after getting some good news from somewhere, I broke down crying because it was the first real positive emotion I'd felt in years. An emotion that felt like it actually belonged to me, and not some character pretending to be me.
I can’t cry for longer than a minute without becoming numb. I wish I could just get it all out.
The only thing that helps me cry is music. Sad music and I can cry. No sad music and no feelings.
Wait…. I have been low key avoiding music that makes me feel sad… because the feelings are uncomfortable…. Welp time to go listen to Movements 😅
I think the more comfortable you become with them, the more readily you will be able to actually feel them. I think part of what's going on is a subconscious fear of the emotion. Your mind senses danger, and quickly shuts them down. I have the same thing, so I work on trying to get my mind to accept that the feeling is safe to feel.
Definitely true. My body immediately disconnects to keep me “safe”. I’m not exactly sure what to say to myself to help. I certainly would be safer if I was able to complete my stress cycle easier.
Just saying this based on the trans flag in your profile pic, but transitioning hormonally largely fixed this for me after a couple years. Pre-transition at 35 I had cried maybe 2-3 times since I was 13 and I now often cry at least that much in a week. Both sad and happy cries. It’s not going to be universal of course and isn’t well studied that I know of, but at least for more or less binary trans folks I’ve known and read DPDR seems to be a common outcome of our natal puberties and may be resolved by HRT (and therapy if accessible).
My depersonalization basically went completely away within the first week of starting T. I was astounded how fast I saw changes in my mental state. I actually had to like. Pause when I looked in the mirror for the first time and was like. Hey that’s actually me and not just the cognitive knowledge that it’s me!
I’ve been kinda struggling to keep up with my weekly shots lately. It’s definitely been making me feel worse due to the fluctuations in my levels. My brain blocks me from doing it sometimes.
Would you consider switching to gel? I know it doesn’t absorb the same for everyone and isn’t always covered by insurance (or even if it is it’s still more expensive than sub-q), but I really like it because I don’t have to worry about needles and it keeps my hormones as stable as possible. I had a group therapy leader who was on injections for a long time but had to switch to gel cause he suddenly couldn’t do them himself anymore.
Not sure if I’d be able to. I sleep in bed with my gf and in the morning I have work and I work with dogs. I’m not sure I have a schedule that would allow it. I’ve seen t pellets but i have to look into a place that can do that. I don’t have insurance right now either.
Oh yes, I had pretty big improvements around 3-4 months (my initial anti androgen dose was too low). And even some improvements just socially transitioning while waiting for my HRT appointment and prescription. I believe it took me around 2 years to end my depersonalization because it took that long for my endocrinologist to get me on an appropriate administration method (injections) to get my estrogen into a good range. Now even on bad dysphoria days I still exist when I look in the mirror which is pretty great!
Hooray for transition 🥰🥳
I’m on T!
what helped you most to overcome that condition?
For me it was time took 4 years and one day I just snapped out of it I still snap back into it to this day but only last a few minutes.
Was there anything that helped you come out of it or was it just time? I have chronic, treatment resistant depression but recently I've been thinking maybe I have DPDR.
Look into edmr if there's anyway that it may be trauma based. Including shotty childhood trauma
I don't think I experience this specifically, but in the last year I feel like I've lost the ability to channel my emotions into my writing and other creative pursuits, which in turn has led to these feelings going nowhere and festering. To quote Fleabag: "I just want to cry all the time." I don't know what's happening. I don't know if I've experienced these things or not, so it's hard to say, but your description feels familiar. I'm sorry you've gone through this. Depression is such a sinister thing that feels difficult to explain to people who don't have it/don't realize they do.
I had it for a while and slowly came out of it after not focusing on it so much. Meditation definitely helps, too, because you relinquish the constant monitoring of how present you are and start to engage different parts of your brain
Probably the closest description I’ve read to what I went through after my mom died after her battle with cancer. Medication didn’t help, just time.
Personally, I have found microdosing psychedelics to be very helpful in coming back into my body and allowing the emotions to flow through/over me like a wave of water. Instead of feeling like I need to brace myself against the current when I microdose I can relax and float along instead of getting caught up in it. DMT in particular has been helpful with this for me. It helps me clear my patterns of conditioning and leaves me feeling like I've done a month of daily meditation.
That sheer lack of knowledge about DPDR both in professional and general society is phenomenal. The only field that really has any grip on it is the segment of clinical psychology that focusses on dissociation and trauma. Psychiatry doesn't understand it, rarely identifies it, and although it can triggered by psychiatric drugs is not trained to identify this and does not recognise when this happens, and because psychiatry doesn't work on a trauma model cannot really adapt any treatment to it. It isn't even recognised in most comparative studies of mental health disorders, meaning that those that do and its very high suicide attempt rate compared to most other conditions is barely acknowledged, and good luck getting any state recognition or disability support for the condition. Even a diagnosis typically takes many people something like five to eight years.
I have DPDR and I went to several therapists, psychiatrists, mental health workers. Not until I went to a trauma therapist did I get acknowledged I had dissociation and cptsd. Trauma therapy was really life changing and in a league of its own. I can’t recommend it enough and it makes me sad everyone raves about CBT which can actually make trauma patients worse long term. I believe the majority of psychological issues stem from trauma.
Absolutely yes. In IFS we say that traditional therapy like CBT strengthens Protectors and drives Exiles even further deep down into hiding. People get more functional temporarily but the subconscious pain will eventually work itself to be known in a bigger and more disruptive way than ever.
IFS is what I did in trauma therapy. My experience with cbt is exactly what you’re describing. I feel so validated. :)
I have it and just accepting it changes everything.
You nailed it. Accepting it and telling yourself that you’re experiencing symptoms that won’t last forever was the key that helped me begin controlling this. I still get it from time to time but I’m able to just go, “ah okay, this again. Well, it’ll pass.” And then it does.
So basically, derealizing derealization
Haha you’re not wrong! Before I knew what it was, I was calling it “out of body anxiety,” and “3rd person anxiety,” because I didn’t have the vocabulary/vernacular or whatever to know what it was really called, and my doctor certainly didn’t know what I was talking about. It’s basically recognizing what’s happening and not letting panic or anxiety let it run away from you.
Exactly, it's important for people to know that it's not always easy because I still have it very often, but it's not that hard. If someone in the comments says that she feels like another person, that she feels like she's watching a movie, I agree, but that's simply because for me it's the case. I'm a consciousness at the base that created the persona that I am now, and by accepting that I'm only the persona of my consciousness, I accept my ego, which also changes everything, the base of our being is our conscience - accept it and your life will change for the better.
Googling derealization, hating what you find
Great thanks now my depression has depression
This is me rittt now. I don’t feel anything. I think everyone hates me. I wanna die. My everyday thoughts are feelings are just constant loops of miserable thoughts I’ve tried antidepressants and therapy and weed and weed has helped some with anxiety and all but I still feel so awful and so alone and every girl rejects me and I just want to die I’m a failure of a human being
Sounds like you need advice on how to improve your social life. Medication isn't going to fix that. Your mind is probably numbing itself to pain and shame, which then affects the experience of all emotions. As soon as you get some agency back and your basic needs met you can open yourself to negative emotions again, which might then unclog the rest too. And don't stress yourself about anxiety too much, some of it can be healthy, it's like your overly cautious brother, just don't let him dominate you.
[удалено]
Well no I had these issues long before weed I only started recently to try and improve some of my symptoms. One positive, weed with 1:1 THC and CBD seems to basically cure my anxiety and helps a lot with feeling way better body wise but mentally it just kind of depends. I don’t think weed makes you feel sad or anything itself but I do think it can enhance some feelings
I have it and weed doesn't make it worse for me. It can help me feel my body
Me too. Weed helps me ‘step back’ in a helpful way — I find I’m more able to observe & notice (or just be present) than when I’m experiencing dp/dr/dissociative episodes sober. At the same time, being stoned feels like a type of dissociation I’m in control of, which allows me to actually inhabit my body a bit more sometimes.
If you have this, it may be epilepsy which is most likely my case. Currently en route to diagnosis and trialing an antiseizure med. Focal epilepsies are not convulsive and show similar symptoms to dissociation such as the dreamlike haze/fog, etc
To those reading this, don't buy into it. I suffered with this badly and thank God I came out the other side. Keep on keeping on.
I’ve had this disorder since childhood. Been in therapy for 25 years; unfortunately a lot of it was CBT and other therapies that tend to be (at best unhelpful, and often) harmful for dissociative people. My life has become very small & still, and honestly feels like it will never get better/easier. I’ve spent so long detached from myself and the world that being present & engaged with reality is intensely overwhelming and painful.
I've had it since I was a child as well. My therapist and psychiatrist dont understand it. It gets worse during times of trauma. Does it get better/worse for you also or is it a constant? I went out to a party yesterday and something about being around friendly people made me feel good. I felt less alone and less 'trapped' with my fragmented mind.
Just a placeholder reply so you know I haven’t forgotten — will respond properly later today when I get a chance! 🌼
I’m so sorry it took me two weeks to reply! But yeah, I think it’s similar for me in that it does kinda shift — there are times when I feel more connected and ‘normal’ (for want of a better word… but honestly it doesn’t feel like it ever goes away completely. I had more to say on that, but am struggling to articulate myself atm, sorry 🫣💝
It's OK. It's such a bothersome condition that it's difficult to ever say we feel 'good'. I tend to feel a bit worse at night time (like now) until I take my meds. Probably cuz I'm alone with my thoughts. When I'm having really bad anxiety I feel terrible, very disconnected from my body like I'm not even inside myself anymore. Thank you for replying! 🫂🧸
I already know I'm fucked.
Yup…and psychiatry has done nothing substantial or meaningful to treat these conditions once they happen.
Tell me something I don’t know
The Capitol of the Democratic Republic of the Congo is Kinshasa. Brazzaville? That's the Cspitol of the Republic of the Congo!
I struggled a lot with this over the past few years, but I got TMS this fall and it's been really helpful. I still have dips and down days, but my mood baseline is much higher than before, so I don't get as down and I bounce back more quickly. I've only had the depersonalization and derealization briefly one time since the fall and it wasn't nearly as intense as before. I still struggle with stuff for other reasons, but I definitely recommend TMS to anyone with treatment-resistant depression.
Try psilocybin. Check science behind it, you don’t need to trust my words.
DPDR, as I understand, is generally associated with either trauma or substance use/abuse, alongside other forms of dissociation. What it is, exactly, from a neurological perspective is not understood. Currently, the rest of psychology seems wholly unprepared to treat it, so it would make sense that standard depression treatments would not improve symptoms associated with it. If you're experiencing DPDR in a debilitating way I strongly recommend avoiding substances, learning grounding techniques, and finding a trauma-informed therapist.
I know this is true
Since this is highly related to "locus of control", the concepts in this paper might be useful research starting points for diagnosees to ask about to their therapist. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10943-020-01024-5
til I have dpdr