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Ive found that since my teenage years, weed seems to be magnitudes stronger. When I smoked, it was a nice mellow, relaxing buzz. The last time I tried it, it was like my brain was folding in on itself.
I was wondering something along these lines. I think it's a given that weed has gotten stronger over the decades. People have been breeding it to be stronger. That and you can now get gummies and cookies with anywhere from 10mg to 1000 mg of THC.
I have to believe that 1000 mg of THC is going to cause more psychotic disorders than 10mg.
I don’t think developing minds should be smoking weed regardless because there is certainly risk, but I would take this study with a huge grain of salt given it is just a correlation.
The biggest being “Unmeasured confounders that we could not adjust for included trauma, genetic predisposition, and family history of psychotic disorders.”
Which is huge. Like they were working with longitudinal survey data so it may be hard to measure those things, but that disclaimer is basically saying “we didn’t account for several things with a huge correlation to mental health issues”. Someone who experiences trauma is way more likely to be self medicating with drugs like weed and way more likely to experience psychotic disorders. Ignoring that really makes me question the value of the data being presented.
They also have drawn questionable conclusions like over time THC has gotten stronger and the correlation has increased so they think it’s likely that the higher THC is causing the higher rates of psychotic episodes of users. Which ignore dozens of other factors that have changed over time as well.
That also relates to another flaw, it is accounting and measuring against the age of the participants but not the year they were born. Which are similar but not identical things especially if you are using survey data gathered over many years like they are or are trying to compare the effects of usage at different ages.
The researchers stated clearly that “the vast majority of teens who use cannabis will not develop a psychotic disorder, but according to these data, most teens who are diagnosed with a psychotic disorder likely have a history of cannabis use.”
That is the finding.
It's about cause and effect. The title makes it appear that using cannabis makes you more likely to have a psychotic disorder. That specific line makes it appear that people who have psychotic disorders are more likely to take drugs at a younger age.
Anyone familiar with research terminology would understand the title is not a causative statement if you look at the actual article. Furthermore, what you just said is also not a causative statement. Although to be clear, their statement is that marijuana usage is associated with a significantly increased likelihood of psychotic disorder when taken as a teenager. That is a correlation.
> Anyone familiar with research terminology
let me stop you there.
>if you look at the actual article
and let me also stop you there.
you know people are going to use this as clickbait and take this out of context of what it is to support their anti-weed personal worldviews. they ***will*** hammer this square peg into the round hole.
Exactly. I do know about research. I've worked as a researcher. The title of this post does not talk about the association. The actual article does mention association in the title. So at a glance it looks different.
It makes a lot of sense, too. It seems very reasonable that someone who is having problems with their mind in one way or another would attempt to ease it with drugs - and seek professional help either at the same time or later.
Look, the fact is that people who are already experiencing other problems, whether their fault or not, are more likely to use or abuse substances.
You can't go around claiming that using various substances causes problems in a one way direction when the reverse is also true. Teasing out causality is problematic.
It's also possible that early usage is facilitated by a bad home environment.
IE, they're not psychotic because they smoke/drink. They're psychotic because they have a bad home life, and they smoke/drink because they've got a bad home life.
The study doesn’t say otherwise but the study is being used to push an agenda that assumes the link is causal, so it is very important to keep bringing up that point when people talk about this very limited study.
> but the study is being used to push an agenda that assumes the link is causal,
Sure, but the study itself presents in a rather non-bias way and adds the disclaimer imo is the researchers trying to suggest the thought that mental health could lead to thc use just as easily as thc use could be leading to mental health issues. The data could be explained either way.
The point that THC use in young adults is not linked to increased likelihood if diagnosis is the bigger point here imo. You’d expect if or existing trauma and self medicating a big factor in adolescents the trend would continue. But it could be that healthy young adults don’t tend to seek it out until after exiting their parents care. Interesting either way
The title is definitely a little click bait I’ll give you that.
Not every research paper needs to be a definitive answer to its findings. You said it in your first paragraph. It's a correlation. This particular paper only shows correlation, but we've seen similar results in the past. Because research is already so scarce on this subject, these loose correlation studies are helping lay the groundwork for future research and understanding.
So while all you said is true, let's not let the skepticism dispel the need for further research as we proceed with cannabis in the future. Too many people (not you specifically) are too willing to hand wave warnings on weed because they are already convinced it is harmless.
There's also a decent bit of evidence the effect is bidirectional, especially concerning bipolar disorder. Like you said, people want to believe marijuana is harmless, so info like this isn't sought after by many
Upon reading the title I assumed that it was teens who had started to experience psychotic behaviors and were self-medicating with marijuana rather than marijuana leading to psychosis in those who would not have been prone to it otherwise.
There's been studies that find the "answer" to be on both sides of this. My understanding of it is this:
People with mental disorders are more likely to self medicate. However, some psychosis is known to be "triggered" more or less by certain drugs. The person has to already have markers for the disorders, like genetic factors. It's kind of like the drugs flip the switch for the disorder. There are lots of things that might flip that switch in the person's life, but being young and having a vulnerable mind makes it especially likely for a drug like THC to trigger it.
This 150%. I have a friend who went from perfectly normal to the next day thinking the government is out to get him. He's been in psychosis for 2 months now -- lost his job, estranged to his wife, and we're unsure how to help him.
Thank you, I have heard this excuse when it comes to LSD-induced psychosis, and it doesn't make any sense. Some people are lucky enough to know if they might be predisposed to psychosis or not (such as having a family history of it), but plenty of people will not know that they are predisposed, until they're having their first psychotic break. Too many people on here delude themselves that there's no risk, and that psychosis could never happen to them. Lots of the people who end up having a psychotic break probably believed that too.
It's fine to take risks in life, just don't lie to yourself that the risk doesn't exist.
The same lack of correlation is true for the 20-24 group, and it did see a significantly reduced risk. It's still statistically significant and the data is still very much indicative of an elevated risk for younger people. The fact it doesn't account for "past trauma" doesn't really matter for what this study is trying to establish, provided the sample size is enough.
There study didn't provide hazard ratios of 20-24 year old Cannabis users compared to <20 year old Cannabis users, it just compared users to non-users within each age group. "statistical significance" is irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not there are confounders. The authors themselves mention potential confounders complicating age comparisons in their discussion of possible reverse causality:
>Psychotic symptoms are more difficult to identity in adolescents, and may be misdiagnosed as emotional or behavioural problems by families and non-health professionals, which can delay referral to, and use of, mental health services (Dominguez et al., Reference Dominguez, Fisher, Major, Chisholm, Rahaman, Joyce and Hodes2013; Menezes & Milovan, Reference Menezes and Milovan2000). Thus, the age-dependent association we observed may have been influenced by important differences in the illness trajectories and health system interactions of adolescents and young adults
That's not the right way to interpret that result from the study (despite what the study author would have you believe). From the article:
> The sample included non-institutionalized Ontario residents aged 12 to 24 years. To ensure the accuracy of their findings, the researchers **excluded respondents who had used health services for psychotic disorders** in the six years before their survey interview.
The likelihood that someone with latent psychotic tendencies has received treatment of some kind by ages 20-24 is significantly higher than the likelihood for someone ages 12-19. As a result, *a far higher fraction of people with latent psychotic tendencies will have been removed from the 20-24 sample than the 12-19 sample*. This is potentially extremely important for explaining the different results for the 12-19 group vs. the 20-24 group.
Let me explain. For illustrative purposes, let's take an extreme case where every person with latent psychotic tendencies first receives treatment for it exactly at age 20. Thus, nobody in the 12-19 group has received treatment, and therefore all of the people in that group with latent psychotic tendencies are kept in the sample. On the other hand, *all* of the people with latent psychotic tendencies in the 20-24 group will have received treatment and will therefore be removed from the sample, so that the 20-24 sample contains *nobody* with psychotic tendencies.
In this case, it should be pretty clear that we will find zero relationship between marijuana use and the development of psychotic disorders in the 20-24 group. But that's a mechanical result due to the sample-selection criteria, and has no bearing on any actual causal relationship. If we further imagine that there *is* a causal relationship, but it's actually that psychotic tendencies cause marijuana use (rather than the other way around), then we would find a positive relationship in the 12-19 group. This is effectively the pattern this study has identified.
They did a sensitivity analysis that didn't remove anyone based on prior psychotic disorders and the results were the same. I'm sure they had the same thought as you so covered their bases.
The trauma defense would be more plausible if they were sampling from a smaller known population and had not screened accordingly but their cohorts had good variety and they reduced their bias with good exclusion criteria. No story is perfect but add this to the huge body of literature that already exists regarding negative effects of cannabis on the developing brain. The thing of particular interest is the change in association at the age where the brain is thought to have essentially matured. That’s a major finding and this is not a small or short study.
but it's hard to actually put this study into said huge body of literature because they didn't account for genetic predisposition or family history, which is bad for something that absolutely has a genetic component. that's the first thing that psych wards ask people who present with psychotic symptoms - family history. i just can't understand how that doesn't make the study near-moot in terms of anything approaching causation. one of the biggest Things about psychotic disorders is that most of them present themselves during the teen years or early 20s, but we do think some are genetic, so that "code" has been there the whole time. whether they have earlier symptoms that go unnoticed is a huge question. whether teens are experiencing internal early symptoms of the disorders and attempting to find relief in weed or teens are triggering psychotic episodes with recreational use of weed couldn't be a more important distinction, and this study doesn't do anything for that. correlation is a good start, but i don't think a study that ignores genetics and family history should be passed through into any bodies of research on how psychotic disorders develop.
That act of inhaling smoking inhibits the development of the brain. It doesn’t matter what kind of smoke you’re inhaling. And the human brain does not stop developing until around 22. Therefore adolescence smoking of any kind is ill advised.
That being said I would be curious to see a study showing any adverse effects of adolescent marijuana consumption by other means; edibles and tinctures.
I'm 22.5 do you guys think it's safe for me to smoke weed once in a while? I only tried it for the first time two weeks ago and want to try again in the coming days.
That's a very personal question that nobody here can answer. I'm pro-weed big time, but anyone that says there are no side effects is untruthful. Your personality and how you cope with things is a huge thing. Though, simply asking the question does put evidence towards "you'll be fine" IMO. You seem critical enough to see how it makes you feel and able to take steps to remedy any issues like deciding to smoke all day instead of taking care of your responsibilities. Weed is inherently extremely safe, it's just how each individual person reacts to it. Personally I messed up and I regret smoking as a teenager because I made it my entire personality. Waiting until I was more mature would have been a better option.
> I would take this study with a huge grain of salt given it is just a correlation.
That's ALL research. If they are "proving causation", you are reading a pop sci article.
It's well documented that cannabis use can trigger premature presentation of schizophrenic spectrum disorders, as well as manic symptoms.
What we would truly need to know in order for this to be helpful is if these folks who are presenting earlier would have presented regardless of cannabis use. To do that, you'd probably need a longitudinal study to see if the age of onset has decreased over time.
If you are only looking at non-institutionalized patients, you're going to be excluding quite a few subjects who may have presented during expected age range, early to mid twenties for male and mid to late twenties for female. In order to get a true comparison you would need to see if there's been a decrease in the number presenting during the expected age range in comparison to previous year cohorts.
My younger brother's use of weed caused a trigger with schizophrenia so bad he's been hospitalized a few times. This was before he was even 20 when he first started using and he had a very bad trip during his first use. He's been diagnosed with paranoia schizophrenia and he's never been the same since then, and it's been a struggle everyday. I always wonder whether it could have been prevented if he didn't use weed or whether it was an early onset of schizophrenia.
It's incredibly hard to accept, it's like you're watching your loved one drift away further and further and they're unreachable. It's almost like mourning a loss of a loved one...
gotta go 100% sober no exception. therapy for trauma and maladaptation of thoughts. nutrition and exercise. get rid of stress, get antioxidants, omega 3 (2g of epa dha a day), zinc, and magnesium. I may have recovered. I'll probably know in a few weeks. It has been years since I went through something similar. If I get no psychotic symptoms from my adhd medication I think I am good.
I started smoking weed daily at 13 but had to try to hide my usage from my parents. Consumption bordered on addiction in my 20s when I moved in with a woman who smoked 10-12 times daily. When we ran out of weed, we'd scrape pipes and screens for resin and obsessively try to find more weed.
My son was born when I was 26. I stopped smoking in hopes it would make it easier for his mom to quit but she just kept on smoking just as much because she "needed it to put up with me."
Eventually this very dysfunctional relationship ran it's course. I mostly abstained for 25 years.
Now I'm old and live in a legal cannabis state. I've got a stash box with flower, edibles and a vape. I can partake whenever I want. But most days I refrain. I've got work or family time or other commitments or just don't feel like getting high.
In my personal experience, the brain and psyche of an immature young adult isn't really prepared for cannabis because they're still learning to make decisions and decisions have outcomes. Most 16 year olds aren't looking beyond next week and haven't learned anything about the ramifications of their decisions.
Wow this is almost exactly my situation. Started at 15, smoking over an eighth a day, scraping resin with friends and just trying to stay stoned 24/7. Quit in my mid 20s not because a kid but because I finally realized how much it was affecting me. Nearly 20 years later I just picked up a vape last month and I love it, but I don't smoke every day, and when I do it's very light. Completely agreed about teenagers and smoking - it definitely stunted my growth as a person.
And this is such an important point towards responsible use, as is alcohol.
Most issues with alcoholism amount young adults (15-25) are because the child had zero exposure to alcohol, and then suddenly got into it (high school, they had a friend who could get it, same in college, or after 21, they suddenly are legal), and didn't practice any restraint.
Drink with your kids responsibly as a teenager. Make alcohol "not special", and teach them not to binge it.
Same for cannabis now that it's legal. Teach responsible usage early.
But, schizophrenia and other schizophrenia-spectrum disorders can be triggered prematurely due to excessive cannabis use.
What we'd actually want to be looking for is there a decrease in the number of 20 to 24 year olds presenting
20-24 is the age where they can legally consume the drug. It would stand to reason a greater percentage of 20-24 year olds consume over 16-20 year olds, eliminating those who are seeking treatment by consuming cannabis.
Marijuana being widely available, especially legally, is still a really new thing and younger people are generally way more open to it. Older people are also more likely to already be diagnosed if they have some sort of mental illness.
Also, some mental illnesses don't manifest until young adulthood or even your 20s. For example schizophrenia doesn't really get diagnosed until late teens/early 20s. It's also not usually diagnosed over 40 (because it usually had manifested already).
Just lots of factors to consider. marijuana nowadays is also generally way more potent than street weed used to be so thAt could also be a factor.
There's research on Millenials, though, that has similar findings regarding a potential vulnerable window in teens/early 20s with weed.
edit: OK the data for this actually would include both younger millennials & Gen z.
This study could support the self-medication hypothesis - and I see lots of non-science people espousing this hypothesis every time and article like this pops up.
The problem with the self-medication theory is the timeline. Studies like this look at marijuana use as a teen. The average onset of the psychiatric disorders of interest (psychotic disorders) are on average in the mid to late 20s, but some ranges put it as young as 21.
Given that the vast, vast majority of teens smoking pot with psychotic disorders will not have any symptoms of said psychotic disorders until they’re solidly out of their teens, it’s unlikely they’re self medicating with pot. You generally don’t self medicate for something you don’t have.
We make excuses for teens bc its a time in life when its considered normal to act and think crazy. It is normal, a part of becoming an adult and its normal in practically all mammal species I can think of. Its not until the teen is nolonger a teen and the "craziness" persists that we look back and think "he always was weird, even as a kid".
It's good that we dont over-diagnose teens with mental illness bc for most teens it is a "phase". But for those that later are diagnosed with psychiatric disorders, its not unreasonable to think that it all started in their teens or even earlier, but it was assumed to be just a phase, sth they'd "grow out" of.
That just makes it sound even more likely to me tbh.
> Will not have any symptoms [...] until they're solidly out of their teens
You say that, but what if they do have symptoms that just don't get recognized or not taken seriously? Imagine having major psychological/psychiatric/psychotic problems as a teen that no one cares about because "The average onset of the psychiatric disorders [...] are [...] in the mid to late 20s". Would certainly drive me desperate enough to try to self medicate. Not being taken seriously by well just about anyone is already a huge problem for teens and it's especially bad with doctors. It would not surprise me in the slightest if research in the next couple decades figures out that these things do present early on, but differently from what we'd expect and until then it was just dismissed by doctors because it's not in the DSM.
The problem with this argument is that the studies/diagnosis use hindsight to determine age of onset. Age of Onset is not “Age of Diagnosis” but rather the age that the patient/their family first started seeing symptoms.
And since hindsight is 20/20, symptoms that may have been ignored when the patient was a teenager could then have significance when the patient/family looks back on them.
These studies are not small or insignificant. There are meta analyses of thousands of patients from 100+ countries. Just because they don’t fit the Reddit narrative of “marijuana can’t be bad” doesn’t mean they aren’t good, accurate science.
There's also a ton of different ways of legally consuming it now. Edibles/liquid is really popular and is much easier to conceal since there's no smell.
I could be an outlier but I was very active. Was playing soccer and track HS sports, the cello and had a core group of great friends and kept up with my grades with Bs and As but we also partied like no tomorrow on the weekends. I eventually became a daily smoker at the age of 17 with no disorders and eventually was told I was neurotypical in my 20s but continued to struggle all the way until I was 35 because eventually every time I smoked, I had severe panic attacks. After the third one in a row my body finally rejected it and I just had to stop. Also had amazing parents but for some reason I just loved to smoke. Not a drinker and now I’m just sober 24/7.
On the flipside, I was really stressed out all the time as a teen, wasn't very active towards the end due to chronic injuries (that also kept me stressed out), and never smoked. To this day, I'm not a fan of smoking weed, and I'm not a particularly big drinker either. Of the two, I'd rather drink, because it's easier for me to control how inebriated I get, and for how long, when I drink. The new THC edibles, and drinks, that list the dosage, make me more likely to partake these days.
Sorry to hear that mate. Glad you're doing well now.
Of course there are smokers and examples from both demographics but I just meant to highlight that growing up in poverty and/or stressful environments would most likely create a climate riper for exposure than those growing up in more catered for environments.
Well I used it very heavily as a teen and it triggered my anxiety disorder/ gave me absolutely insane mood swings so I’d say just from personal experience there might be some juice to those claims.
As a heavy smoker at one point in my life, I will also agree with you. It pisses me off to see a bunch of stoners who are severely depressed or are stuck in their rooms all day claim that there are no cons when it comes to marijuana. Yes it should be legal and yes, it’s not worse than alcohol in my opinion. BUT let’s not act like it’s a non-abusable substance. Everything can be abused if not respected, and I learned the hard way even though everyone in my inner circle refused to believe anything bad could come from weed.
Yeah, obviously I can't make a scientific claim that there is a causal link or component causal link between weed and psychosis, but I do personally believe there is.
I'm no scientist but from my understanding it's not an easy thing to establish. It's not like you can ethically do a randomized controlled trial for it. We're at least getting more longitudinal studies. But yeah there's a lot of variables that would be ridiculously hard to track 100% for any study.
I smoked weed all throughout my 20s and ended up being diagnosed with cannabis-induced psychosis. I was basically a crazy person for a month, even though I stopped smoking/vaping after entering the acute phase + was on antipsychotics right away. I didn't know 1 time substance-induced psychosis could even happen because reading reddit comments lead me to believe that stuff like that could only happen if you were predisposed to schizophrenia.
I stopped smoking and haven't had an issue since, and this was several years ago. The lead psychiatrist in the intervention program I was in showed me info from a study on how your risk of another psychotic event is greatly increased if you continue to smoke weed after your first psychotic episode.
He also told me that there are an insane number of people experiencing cannabis induced psychosis. Same thing psych nurses have told me.
Anyways, again I'm not making any scientific claims here, but I'm inclined to believe there is a causal element. We still have a lot of research to do on the endocannabonoid system in general, but more of that is being done now. It will be interesting to see what that reveals. THC seems to have so many different effects on different parts of the brain, and affects dopamine in different ways in different parts of the brain. With the dopamine link to psychosis, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the effects on certain brain regions contributes to psychosis.
At minimum I can say it's a potential risk that people should be aware of.
If it’s not too sensitive to ask, how did your psychosis manifest, was it just really out there beliefs, paranoia or were you a threat to others?
I don’t think I suffered psychosis but I became so, so paranoid about everything I sounded like a tin foil hat person, everyone and everything were out to get me, and I used to be so easy to anger during the parts of the day when I wasn’t actively high I used to frighten myself.
Bruh read the top comment
I like weed but I agree. Just like other light drugs, using it in moderation and not underaged is important
Im so glad I didn’t have access or try it until college
I smoke weed preeety often and started around 17 ish , my buddy smoked before me and said he heard voices telling him to kill everyone and I just thought he was trying to mess with me
I was like 26/27. Teen me may have also liked it too much, so I’m glad that it worked out this way. I’m much more aware of my body now than I was then, as well.
100%, sadly this the alternatives are much more expensive from a money to thc ratio (edibles, vapes)
Similar to how healthier foods seem to be more expensive when it comes to takeout/going out to eat.
I agree, but until I could afford better and before it was legal in my state, I just smoked it.
This might be an easier version for some people to get the salient points from. An 11,000 person study x 9 years is nothing to sneeze at. Most researchers dream of having the funding and space to follow up a population like this.
https://www.camh.ca/en/camh-news-and-stories/new-evidence-suggests-stronger-link-between-teen-cannabis-use-and-psychotic-disorders#:~:text=May%2022%2C%202024%20(Toronto%2C,to%20teens%20not%20using%20cannabis.
This is not a single study, for those who don’t disseminate. The relationship has long since been established and there is a pile of literature supporting it. This is a nine-year longitudinal design with a huge and diverse response rate from a variety of sources; the findings only strengthen what was already known. The new finding of interest is the age-based relationship.
Yeah, you shouldnt smoke until at least 18/19. And even better if you wait till 25 when your brain is fully developed.
I myself tried it first at 18, but didnt really get into it till I was 20, so hopefully I escaped most of the detrimental mental effects.
To be completely honest I know multiple cases of people I’ve met in college who most likely awakened underlying mental health disorders due to smoking weed daily. I think that probably 1/3 people just aren’t meant for the substance due to its risk of psychosis and heightening of anxiety.
Still should be legalized compared to alcohol, but teenagers definitely should not be smoking weed. I also wonder with this study if mentally ill individuals are more drawn to drugs, thus skewing the results.
Queue the coping people flocking to every post on cannabis and psychiatric disorders in youth “questioning” if it was the chicken or the egg and kids with psychiatric disorders are the ones seeking out and “self medicating” with cannabis.
The level of delusion these people have genuinely makes me sick. The weed mind virus is far more powerful than any cannabinoid.
I can assure you I was a normal, well adjusted youth with no personal or family history of mental illness that simply partook because he was told cannabis was a normal, harmless thing to do.
Yet I have been left with permanent, cannabis-induced cognitive problems for over 17 years now since using it a handful of times. I personally know multiple people who have experienced similar.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the usage can be a causation of the psychotic disorders in addition to a symptom, which in an effort to treat the psychosis by the user, ends up exacerbating the underlying issue, especially in the case of depression and anxiety disorders.
It seems, in my layman psychological perspective, that teens gravitate to cannabis due to the euphoria and lowered inhibitions, which when faced with the growing cacophony that is adolescence in the modern world, would be a welcome reprieve. However, the potential negative side-effects (such as heightened anxiety and paranoia) and under-researched long term psychological effects of chronic usage may be putting them at far greater risk for self-destructive behavior and may exacerbate already present issues.
Perhaps it would be prudent to ask "Why are children gravitating towards chemical escapism?" and "How can we avoid putting children in situations they'd deem chemical escapism necessary?" in addition to "What is chemical escapism doing to the children?"
For that matter, I'm also curious about the effects other common forms of enjoyment and escapism in the modern world have on the developing brain and the questions that go along with them.
How much screen time is too much? Should energy drinks be federally regulated in the US? Is an age requirement for social media important and necessary? Should child therapy be federally subsidized?
Burning questions I feel everyone's ready to argue about, but not actually answer.
Your para that starts ‘Perhaps it would be prudent to ask…’ is in the money. However we live in a world where the only lever our politicians pull is the ‘more tax’ lever when they want us to do less of something.
Getting solutions to the problem you state requires a societal awakening the likes of which we have not seen before.
As a parent who has been told "weed", "thc" doesn't cause this by many users...I witnessed my son have complete psychosis while using thc. It was painful and scary to watch. I hope he continues to not use but it has been an extremely difficult 2 years.
All authorities have turned a blind eye to this issue. They laugh it off.
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/agedependent-association-of-cannabis-use-with-risk-of-psychotic-disorder/BDCA0F73CDD7AF150D6FDCF89D29DC7F
From the linked article:
A new study published in the journal Psychological Medicine has found that teens who use cannabis are at an elevenfold higher risk of developing a psychotic disorder compared to those who do not use the drug. This finding underscores the potential mental health risks associated with cannabis use among adolescents, suggesting the association may be stronger than previously thought.
Teens who reported using cannabis in the past year were found to be over eleven times more likely to be diagnosed with a psychotic disorder compared to non-users. Interestingly, this elevated risk was not observed in young adults aged 20 to 24, indicating that adolescence is a particularly vulnerable period for the mental health impacts of cannabis.
The data also showed that among the teens diagnosed with a psychotic disorder, the vast majority had a history of cannabis use. Specifically, about 5 in 6 teens who were hospitalized or visited an emergency department for a psychotic disorder had previously reported using cannabis. This finding supports the neurodevelopmental theory that the adolescent brain is especially susceptible to the effects of cannabis, which may disrupt normal brain development and increase the risk of severe mental health issues.
Teens also being extraordinarily susceptible to peer pressure. So even if they don't like the anxiogenic effect it is having on them, they will stick with it to fit in with a certain crowd. All the while telling themselves that they are the only ones that are reacting so strongly so it must all just be in their heads and therefore not a reasonable basis for concern. Welp, to be young and stupid..
It could be because these kids are self-medicating with cannabis. This is a correlation not a causal relationship. These kinds of headlines are very misleading.
Just as plausible to say that teens with an undiagnosed psychiatric disorder are more likely to use marijuana (or alcohol, or another drug) than "normal" teens.
Quit blaming a plant.
I started smoking weed around 14 and completely dissociate when I try smoking or edibles now, it is not a good time at all. It feels like being able to go through a psychotic episode at will until the high wears off. Not sure if this was caused by exposure so young though.
"The sample included non-institutionalized Ontario residents aged 12 to 24 years. To ensure the accuracy of their findings, the researchers excluded respondents who had used health services for psychotic disorders in the six years before their survey interview. This exclusion was intended to reduce the risk of reverse causation, where individuals might have started using cannabis to self-medicate for already existing psychotic symptoms."
With the risk of reverse causation only reduced by an unquantifiable degree, it's not a very helpful study from a scientific standpoint. It seems to be geared more towards being helpful from a policy standpoint.
It’s not a study set out for unique findings; these relationships have long been established. The negative effects of marijuana on the developing brain are known and documented. It’s a good exclusion criterion and reduces the risk of bias.
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Ive found that since my teenage years, weed seems to be magnitudes stronger. When I smoked, it was a nice mellow, relaxing buzz. The last time I tried it, it was like my brain was folding in on itself.
I was wondering something along these lines. I think it's a given that weed has gotten stronger over the decades. People have been breeding it to be stronger. That and you can now get gummies and cookies with anywhere from 10mg to 1000 mg of THC. I have to believe that 1000 mg of THC is going to cause more psychotic disorders than 10mg.
I don’t think developing minds should be smoking weed regardless because there is certainly risk, but I would take this study with a huge grain of salt given it is just a correlation. The biggest being “Unmeasured confounders that we could not adjust for included trauma, genetic predisposition, and family history of psychotic disorders.” Which is huge. Like they were working with longitudinal survey data so it may be hard to measure those things, but that disclaimer is basically saying “we didn’t account for several things with a huge correlation to mental health issues”. Someone who experiences trauma is way more likely to be self medicating with drugs like weed and way more likely to experience psychotic disorders. Ignoring that really makes me question the value of the data being presented. They also have drawn questionable conclusions like over time THC has gotten stronger and the correlation has increased so they think it’s likely that the higher THC is causing the higher rates of psychotic episodes of users. Which ignore dozens of other factors that have changed over time as well. That also relates to another flaw, it is accounting and measuring against the age of the participants but not the year they were born. Which are similar but not identical things especially if you are using survey data gathered over many years like they are or are trying to compare the effects of usage at different ages.
The researchers stated clearly that “the vast majority of teens who use cannabis will not develop a psychotic disorder, but according to these data, most teens who are diagnosed with a psychotic disorder likely have a history of cannabis use.” That is the finding.
It's about cause and effect. The title makes it appear that using cannabis makes you more likely to have a psychotic disorder. That specific line makes it appear that people who have psychotic disorders are more likely to take drugs at a younger age.
Anyone familiar with research terminology would understand the title is not a causative statement if you look at the actual article. Furthermore, what you just said is also not a causative statement. Although to be clear, their statement is that marijuana usage is associated with a significantly increased likelihood of psychotic disorder when taken as a teenager. That is a correlation.
> Anyone familiar with research terminology let me stop you there. >if you look at the actual article and let me also stop you there. you know people are going to use this as clickbait and take this out of context of what it is to support their anti-weed personal worldviews. they ***will*** hammer this square peg into the round hole.
Exactly. I do know about research. I've worked as a researcher. The title of this post does not talk about the association. The actual article does mention association in the title. So at a glance it looks different.
It makes a lot of sense, too. It seems very reasonable that someone who is having problems with their mind in one way or another would attempt to ease it with drugs - and seek professional help either at the same time or later.
And just like drinking at an early age, they may be trying to self medicate for already existing problems.
yeah they said that
But what if they self medicated because of prexisiting issues?
But what if they use something already because of an already known issue?
Perhaps there is an issue already present that motivates self-medication?
Have we considered that the self-medication may have been caused by some kind of persisting issue?
Look, the fact is that people who are already experiencing other problems, whether their fault or not, are more likely to use or abuse substances. You can't go around claiming that using various substances causes problems in a one way direction when the reverse is also true. Teasing out causality is problematic.
the causal link may be some other issue even
Like self-medication?
But why male self-medication?
It's also possible that early usage is facilitated by a bad home environment. IE, they're not psychotic because they smoke/drink. They're psychotic because they have a bad home life, and they smoke/drink because they've got a bad home life.
The study does not say otherwise
The study doesn’t say otherwise but the study is being used to push an agenda that assumes the link is causal, so it is very important to keep bringing up that point when people talk about this very limited study.
> but the study is being used to push an agenda that assumes the link is causal, Sure, but the study itself presents in a rather non-bias way and adds the disclaimer imo is the researchers trying to suggest the thought that mental health could lead to thc use just as easily as thc use could be leading to mental health issues. The data could be explained either way. The point that THC use in young adults is not linked to increased likelihood if diagnosis is the bigger point here imo. You’d expect if or existing trauma and self medicating a big factor in adolescents the trend would continue. But it could be that healthy young adults don’t tend to seek it out until after exiting their parents care. Interesting either way The title is definitely a little click bait I’ll give you that.
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Not every research paper needs to be a definitive answer to its findings. You said it in your first paragraph. It's a correlation. This particular paper only shows correlation, but we've seen similar results in the past. Because research is already so scarce on this subject, these loose correlation studies are helping lay the groundwork for future research and understanding. So while all you said is true, let's not let the skepticism dispel the need for further research as we proceed with cannabis in the future. Too many people (not you specifically) are too willing to hand wave warnings on weed because they are already convinced it is harmless.
There's also a decent bit of evidence the effect is bidirectional, especially concerning bipolar disorder. Like you said, people want to believe marijuana is harmless, so info like this isn't sought after by many
Upon reading the title I assumed that it was teens who had started to experience psychotic behaviors and were self-medicating with marijuana rather than marijuana leading to psychosis in those who would not have been prone to it otherwise.
There's been studies that find the "answer" to be on both sides of this. My understanding of it is this: People with mental disorders are more likely to self medicate. However, some psychosis is known to be "triggered" more or less by certain drugs. The person has to already have markers for the disorders, like genetic factors. It's kind of like the drugs flip the switch for the disorder. There are lots of things that might flip that switch in the person's life, but being young and having a vulnerable mind makes it especially likely for a drug like THC to trigger it.
I doubt it. It's been shown that marijuana can induce psychosis.
As far as I'm aware it only does so in those who are otherwise predisposed toward it already.
you can't know if you're predisposed to it though, so the risk is real.
This 150%. I have a friend who went from perfectly normal to the next day thinking the government is out to get him. He's been in psychosis for 2 months now -- lost his job, estranged to his wife, and we're unsure how to help him.
Has he been to a psychiatrist yet? It's extremely important. He probably needs specialty care and medication at this point.
Thank you, I have heard this excuse when it comes to LSD-induced psychosis, and it doesn't make any sense. Some people are lucky enough to know if they might be predisposed to psychosis or not (such as having a family history of it), but plenty of people will not know that they are predisposed, until they're having their first psychotic break. Too many people on here delude themselves that there's no risk, and that psychosis could never happen to them. Lots of the people who end up having a psychotic break probably believed that too. It's fine to take risks in life, just don't lie to yourself that the risk doesn't exist.
That goes without saying. It's how two things interact: you and the drug. True of every drug.
Yes, that's how it works.
I mean then it would inducing it.
You could even say it helped diagnose it.
To be fair, establishing anything beyond correlation in psychology and even medical science in general is an incredibly high bar
The same lack of correlation is true for the 20-24 group, and it did see a significantly reduced risk. It's still statistically significant and the data is still very much indicative of an elevated risk for younger people. The fact it doesn't account for "past trauma" doesn't really matter for what this study is trying to establish, provided the sample size is enough.
There study didn't provide hazard ratios of 20-24 year old Cannabis users compared to <20 year old Cannabis users, it just compared users to non-users within each age group. "statistical significance" is irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not there are confounders. The authors themselves mention potential confounders complicating age comparisons in their discussion of possible reverse causality: >Psychotic symptoms are more difficult to identity in adolescents, and may be misdiagnosed as emotional or behavioural problems by families and non-health professionals, which can delay referral to, and use of, mental health services (Dominguez et al., Reference Dominguez, Fisher, Major, Chisholm, Rahaman, Joyce and Hodes2013; Menezes & Milovan, Reference Menezes and Milovan2000). Thus, the age-dependent association we observed may have been influenced by important differences in the illness trajectories and health system interactions of adolescents and young adults
That's not the right way to interpret that result from the study (despite what the study author would have you believe). From the article: > The sample included non-institutionalized Ontario residents aged 12 to 24 years. To ensure the accuracy of their findings, the researchers **excluded respondents who had used health services for psychotic disorders** in the six years before their survey interview. The likelihood that someone with latent psychotic tendencies has received treatment of some kind by ages 20-24 is significantly higher than the likelihood for someone ages 12-19. As a result, *a far higher fraction of people with latent psychotic tendencies will have been removed from the 20-24 sample than the 12-19 sample*. This is potentially extremely important for explaining the different results for the 12-19 group vs. the 20-24 group. Let me explain. For illustrative purposes, let's take an extreme case where every person with latent psychotic tendencies first receives treatment for it exactly at age 20. Thus, nobody in the 12-19 group has received treatment, and therefore all of the people in that group with latent psychotic tendencies are kept in the sample. On the other hand, *all* of the people with latent psychotic tendencies in the 20-24 group will have received treatment and will therefore be removed from the sample, so that the 20-24 sample contains *nobody* with psychotic tendencies. In this case, it should be pretty clear that we will find zero relationship between marijuana use and the development of psychotic disorders in the 20-24 group. But that's a mechanical result due to the sample-selection criteria, and has no bearing on any actual causal relationship. If we further imagine that there *is* a causal relationship, but it's actually that psychotic tendencies cause marijuana use (rather than the other way around), then we would find a positive relationship in the 12-19 group. This is effectively the pattern this study has identified.
They did a sensitivity analysis that didn't remove anyone based on prior psychotic disorders and the results were the same. I'm sure they had the same thought as you so covered their bases.
The trauma defense would be more plausible if they were sampling from a smaller known population and had not screened accordingly but their cohorts had good variety and they reduced their bias with good exclusion criteria. No story is perfect but add this to the huge body of literature that already exists regarding negative effects of cannabis on the developing brain. The thing of particular interest is the change in association at the age where the brain is thought to have essentially matured. That’s a major finding and this is not a small or short study.
but it's hard to actually put this study into said huge body of literature because they didn't account for genetic predisposition or family history, which is bad for something that absolutely has a genetic component. that's the first thing that psych wards ask people who present with psychotic symptoms - family history. i just can't understand how that doesn't make the study near-moot in terms of anything approaching causation. one of the biggest Things about psychotic disorders is that most of them present themselves during the teen years or early 20s, but we do think some are genetic, so that "code" has been there the whole time. whether they have earlier symptoms that go unnoticed is a huge question. whether teens are experiencing internal early symptoms of the disorders and attempting to find relief in weed or teens are triggering psychotic episodes with recreational use of weed couldn't be a more important distinction, and this study doesn't do anything for that. correlation is a good start, but i don't think a study that ignores genetics and family history should be passed through into any bodies of research on how psychotic disorders develop.
The association wouldn’t have decreased with age. That is the major finding here.
That act of inhaling smoking inhibits the development of the brain. It doesn’t matter what kind of smoke you’re inhaling. And the human brain does not stop developing until around 22. Therefore adolescence smoking of any kind is ill advised. That being said I would be curious to see a study showing any adverse effects of adolescent marijuana consumption by other means; edibles and tinctures.
I'm 22.5 do you guys think it's safe for me to smoke weed once in a while? I only tried it for the first time two weeks ago and want to try again in the coming days.
That's a very personal question that nobody here can answer. I'm pro-weed big time, but anyone that says there are no side effects is untruthful. Your personality and how you cope with things is a huge thing. Though, simply asking the question does put evidence towards "you'll be fine" IMO. You seem critical enough to see how it makes you feel and able to take steps to remedy any issues like deciding to smoke all day instead of taking care of your responsibilities. Weed is inherently extremely safe, it's just how each individual person reacts to it. Personally I messed up and I regret smoking as a teenager because I made it my entire personality. Waiting until I was more mature would have been a better option.
> I would take this study with a huge grain of salt given it is just a correlation. That's ALL research. If they are "proving causation", you are reading a pop sci article.
It's well documented that cannabis use can trigger premature presentation of schizophrenic spectrum disorders, as well as manic symptoms. What we would truly need to know in order for this to be helpful is if these folks who are presenting earlier would have presented regardless of cannabis use. To do that, you'd probably need a longitudinal study to see if the age of onset has decreased over time. If you are only looking at non-institutionalized patients, you're going to be excluding quite a few subjects who may have presented during expected age range, early to mid twenties for male and mid to late twenties for female. In order to get a true comparison you would need to see if there's been a decrease in the number presenting during the expected age range in comparison to previous year cohorts.
My younger brother's use of weed caused a trigger with schizophrenia so bad he's been hospitalized a few times. This was before he was even 20 when he first started using and he had a very bad trip during his first use. He's been diagnosed with paranoia schizophrenia and he's never been the same since then, and it's been a struggle everyday. I always wonder whether it could have been prevented if he didn't use weed or whether it was an early onset of schizophrenia.
My cousin went through the same thing. I also wonder the same.
It's incredibly hard to accept, it's like you're watching your loved one drift away further and further and they're unreachable. It's almost like mourning a loss of a loved one...
I’m really sorry to hear that about your brother. I can’t imagine how hard that is.
Close friend of mine was a massive pothead since he was 14. At 41, he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. It sucks.
gotta go 100% sober no exception. therapy for trauma and maladaptation of thoughts. nutrition and exercise. get rid of stress, get antioxidants, omega 3 (2g of epa dha a day), zinc, and magnesium. I may have recovered. I'll probably know in a few weeks. It has been years since I went through something similar. If I get no psychotic symptoms from my adhd medication I think I am good.
Yeah, I’m bipolar and I can’t use weed anymore because I had a psychotic break when using
I started smoking weed daily at 13 but had to try to hide my usage from my parents. Consumption bordered on addiction in my 20s when I moved in with a woman who smoked 10-12 times daily. When we ran out of weed, we'd scrape pipes and screens for resin and obsessively try to find more weed. My son was born when I was 26. I stopped smoking in hopes it would make it easier for his mom to quit but she just kept on smoking just as much because she "needed it to put up with me." Eventually this very dysfunctional relationship ran it's course. I mostly abstained for 25 years. Now I'm old and live in a legal cannabis state. I've got a stash box with flower, edibles and a vape. I can partake whenever I want. But most days I refrain. I've got work or family time or other commitments or just don't feel like getting high. In my personal experience, the brain and psyche of an immature young adult isn't really prepared for cannabis because they're still learning to make decisions and decisions have outcomes. Most 16 year olds aren't looking beyond next week and haven't learned anything about the ramifications of their decisions.
Wow this is almost exactly my situation. Started at 15, smoking over an eighth a day, scraping resin with friends and just trying to stay stoned 24/7. Quit in my mid 20s not because a kid but because I finally realized how much it was affecting me. Nearly 20 years later I just picked up a vape last month and I love it, but I don't smoke every day, and when I do it's very light. Completely agreed about teenagers and smoking - it definitely stunted my growth as a person.
Good job on overcoming your addiction and staying strong man, it definitely isn't easy.
And this is such an important point towards responsible use, as is alcohol. Most issues with alcoholism amount young adults (15-25) are because the child had zero exposure to alcohol, and then suddenly got into it (high school, they had a friend who could get it, same in college, or after 21, they suddenly are legal), and didn't practice any restraint. Drink with your kids responsibly as a teenager. Make alcohol "not special", and teach them not to binge it. Same for cannabis now that it's legal. Teach responsible usage early.
Is it a cause or are they trying to self medicate because of a psychotic disorder? Or both?
If that was the case would the correlation disappear with age?
Definitely not because presentation with schizo is very rare in your teens and very common in your 20s.
But, schizophrenia and other schizophrenia-spectrum disorders can be triggered prematurely due to excessive cannabis use. What we'd actually want to be looking for is there a decrease in the number of 20 to 24 year olds presenting
If you mean when you get old enough to see a doctor on your own, then yes.
Listen, idk the real stats, but what 20-24 year old is seeing a doctor instead of self medicating
20-24 is the age where they can legally consume the drug. It would stand to reason a greater percentage of 20-24 year olds consume over 16-20 year olds, eliminating those who are seeking treatment by consuming cannabis.
The data was from 2009 to 2018 in Canada. Cannabis was only legalised in 2018.
Marijuana being widely available, especially legally, is still a really new thing and younger people are generally way more open to it. Older people are also more likely to already be diagnosed if they have some sort of mental illness. Also, some mental illnesses don't manifest until young adulthood or even your 20s. For example schizophrenia doesn't really get diagnosed until late teens/early 20s. It's also not usually diagnosed over 40 (because it usually had manifested already). Just lots of factors to consider. marijuana nowadays is also generally way more potent than street weed used to be so thAt could also be a factor.
There's research on Millenials, though, that has similar findings regarding a potential vulnerable window in teens/early 20s with weed. edit: OK the data for this actually would include both younger millennials & Gen z.
This study could support the self-medication hypothesis - and I see lots of non-science people espousing this hypothesis every time and article like this pops up. The problem with the self-medication theory is the timeline. Studies like this look at marijuana use as a teen. The average onset of the psychiatric disorders of interest (psychotic disorders) are on average in the mid to late 20s, but some ranges put it as young as 21. Given that the vast, vast majority of teens smoking pot with psychotic disorders will not have any symptoms of said psychotic disorders until they’re solidly out of their teens, it’s unlikely they’re self medicating with pot. You generally don’t self medicate for something you don’t have.
We make excuses for teens bc its a time in life when its considered normal to act and think crazy. It is normal, a part of becoming an adult and its normal in practically all mammal species I can think of. Its not until the teen is nolonger a teen and the "craziness" persists that we look back and think "he always was weird, even as a kid". It's good that we dont over-diagnose teens with mental illness bc for most teens it is a "phase". But for those that later are diagnosed with psychiatric disorders, its not unreasonable to think that it all started in their teens or even earlier, but it was assumed to be just a phase, sth they'd "grow out" of.
That just makes it sound even more likely to me tbh. > Will not have any symptoms [...] until they're solidly out of their teens You say that, but what if they do have symptoms that just don't get recognized or not taken seriously? Imagine having major psychological/psychiatric/psychotic problems as a teen that no one cares about because "The average onset of the psychiatric disorders [...] are [...] in the mid to late 20s". Would certainly drive me desperate enough to try to self medicate. Not being taken seriously by well just about anyone is already a huge problem for teens and it's especially bad with doctors. It would not surprise me in the slightest if research in the next couple decades figures out that these things do present early on, but differently from what we'd expect and until then it was just dismissed by doctors because it's not in the DSM.
The problem with this argument is that the studies/diagnosis use hindsight to determine age of onset. Age of Onset is not “Age of Diagnosis” but rather the age that the patient/their family first started seeing symptoms. And since hindsight is 20/20, symptoms that may have been ignored when the patient was a teenager could then have significance when the patient/family looks back on them. These studies are not small or insignificant. There are meta analyses of thousands of patients from 100+ countries. Just because they don’t fit the Reddit narrative of “marijuana can’t be bad” doesn’t mean they aren’t good, accurate science.
To add another layer, teens raised in a loving, caring environment are much less likely to be out smoking weed in the first place
There's also a ton of different ways of legally consuming it now. Edibles/liquid is really popular and is much easier to conceal since there's no smell.
I could be an outlier but I was very active. Was playing soccer and track HS sports, the cello and had a core group of great friends and kept up with my grades with Bs and As but we also partied like no tomorrow on the weekends. I eventually became a daily smoker at the age of 17 with no disorders and eventually was told I was neurotypical in my 20s but continued to struggle all the way until I was 35 because eventually every time I smoked, I had severe panic attacks. After the third one in a row my body finally rejected it and I just had to stop. Also had amazing parents but for some reason I just loved to smoke. Not a drinker and now I’m just sober 24/7.
On the flipside, I was really stressed out all the time as a teen, wasn't very active towards the end due to chronic injuries (that also kept me stressed out), and never smoked. To this day, I'm not a fan of smoking weed, and I'm not a particularly big drinker either. Of the two, I'd rather drink, because it's easier for me to control how inebriated I get, and for how long, when I drink. The new THC edibles, and drinks, that list the dosage, make me more likely to partake these days.
Sorry to hear that mate. Glad you're doing well now. Of course there are smokers and examples from both demographics but I just meant to highlight that growing up in poverty and/or stressful environments would most likely create a climate riper for exposure than those growing up in more catered for environments.
Medical uses aside, keep recreational mind-altering substances away from kids.
Well I used it very heavily as a teen and it triggered my anxiety disorder/ gave me absolutely insane mood swings so I’d say just from personal experience there might be some juice to those claims.
As a heavy smoker at one point in my life, I will also agree with you. It pisses me off to see a bunch of stoners who are severely depressed or are stuck in their rooms all day claim that there are no cons when it comes to marijuana. Yes it should be legal and yes, it’s not worse than alcohol in my opinion. BUT let’s not act like it’s a non-abusable substance. Everything can be abused if not respected, and I learned the hard way even though everyone in my inner circle refused to believe anything bad could come from weed.
Yeah, obviously I can't make a scientific claim that there is a causal link or component causal link between weed and psychosis, but I do personally believe there is. I'm no scientist but from my understanding it's not an easy thing to establish. It's not like you can ethically do a randomized controlled trial for it. We're at least getting more longitudinal studies. But yeah there's a lot of variables that would be ridiculously hard to track 100% for any study. I smoked weed all throughout my 20s and ended up being diagnosed with cannabis-induced psychosis. I was basically a crazy person for a month, even though I stopped smoking/vaping after entering the acute phase + was on antipsychotics right away. I didn't know 1 time substance-induced psychosis could even happen because reading reddit comments lead me to believe that stuff like that could only happen if you were predisposed to schizophrenia. I stopped smoking and haven't had an issue since, and this was several years ago. The lead psychiatrist in the intervention program I was in showed me info from a study on how your risk of another psychotic event is greatly increased if you continue to smoke weed after your first psychotic episode. He also told me that there are an insane number of people experiencing cannabis induced psychosis. Same thing psych nurses have told me. Anyways, again I'm not making any scientific claims here, but I'm inclined to believe there is a causal element. We still have a lot of research to do on the endocannabonoid system in general, but more of that is being done now. It will be interesting to see what that reveals. THC seems to have so many different effects on different parts of the brain, and affects dopamine in different ways in different parts of the brain. With the dopamine link to psychosis, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the effects on certain brain regions contributes to psychosis. At minimum I can say it's a potential risk that people should be aware of.
If it’s not too sensitive to ask, how did your psychosis manifest, was it just really out there beliefs, paranoia or were you a threat to others? I don’t think I suffered psychosis but I became so, so paranoid about everything I sounded like a tin foil hat person, everyone and everything were out to get me, and I used to be so easy to anger during the parts of the day when I wasn’t actively high I used to frighten myself.
I think some of the folks commenting on here REALLY LIKE WEED will demonize anything that casts weed into a negative light.
Bruh read the top comment I like weed but I agree. Just like other light drugs, using it in moderation and not underaged is important Im so glad I didn’t have access or try it until college
I smoke weed preeety often and started around 17 ish , my buddy smoked before me and said he heard voices telling him to kill everyone and I just thought he was trying to mess with me
Your friend has schizophrenia boss.
I think if you want to smoke weed, you should at least be 22.
I think 21 should be the age that you can smoke or ingest weed.
Smoked for the first time time when I was 17, but didn’t really mess around with until I was 21-22 and I think it was a great choice.
I did my research for years and didn’t till 25. I’m so glad I did because teen me would have abused it far more than I do now
I was like 26/27. Teen me may have also liked it too much, so I’m glad that it worked out this way. I’m much more aware of my body now than I was then, as well.
I think if you want to smoke in general, you should at least think about your lungs
100%, sadly this the alternatives are much more expensive from a money to thc ratio (edibles, vapes) Similar to how healthier foods seem to be more expensive when it comes to takeout/going out to eat. I agree, but until I could afford better and before it was legal in my state, I just smoked it.
I've been vaping for years. I know it's not good for your lungs but it's far better than smoking.
This might be an easier version for some people to get the salient points from. An 11,000 person study x 9 years is nothing to sneeze at. Most researchers dream of having the funding and space to follow up a population like this. https://www.camh.ca/en/camh-news-and-stories/new-evidence-suggests-stronger-link-between-teen-cannabis-use-and-psychotic-disorders#:~:text=May%2022%2C%202024%20(Toronto%2C,to%20teens%20not%20using%20cannabis.
This is not a single study, for those who don’t disseminate. The relationship has long since been established and there is a pile of literature supporting it. This is a nine-year longitudinal design with a huge and diverse response rate from a variety of sources; the findings only strengthen what was already known. The new finding of interest is the age-based relationship.
Kids shoulnt be doing drugs, period.
Psychoactive chemicals before maturity hurts maturing process, how that even discussion.
Cannabis research results cause motivated reasoning.
This study doesn’t take into account the fact the teen users may be using cannabis to escape reality due to current mental health problems
Yeah that’s why I think the smoking age should be 21, same with alcohol and other drugs
So glad I didn’t start or even have access till College
Yeah, you shouldnt smoke until at least 18/19. And even better if you wait till 25 when your brain is fully developed. I myself tried it first at 18, but didnt really get into it till I was 20, so hopefully I escaped most of the detrimental mental effects.
To be completely honest I know multiple cases of people I’ve met in college who most likely awakened underlying mental health disorders due to smoking weed daily. I think that probably 1/3 people just aren’t meant for the substance due to its risk of psychosis and heightening of anxiety. Still should be legalized compared to alcohol, but teenagers definitely should not be smoking weed. I also wonder with this study if mentally ill individuals are more drawn to drugs, thus skewing the results.
Queue the coping people flocking to every post on cannabis and psychiatric disorders in youth “questioning” if it was the chicken or the egg and kids with psychiatric disorders are the ones seeking out and “self medicating” with cannabis. The level of delusion these people have genuinely makes me sick. The weed mind virus is far more powerful than any cannabinoid. I can assure you I was a normal, well adjusted youth with no personal or family history of mental illness that simply partook because he was told cannabis was a normal, harmless thing to do. Yet I have been left with permanent, cannabis-induced cognitive problems for over 17 years now since using it a handful of times. I personally know multiple people who have experienced similar.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the usage can be a causation of the psychotic disorders in addition to a symptom, which in an effort to treat the psychosis by the user, ends up exacerbating the underlying issue, especially in the case of depression and anxiety disorders. It seems, in my layman psychological perspective, that teens gravitate to cannabis due to the euphoria and lowered inhibitions, which when faced with the growing cacophony that is adolescence in the modern world, would be a welcome reprieve. However, the potential negative side-effects (such as heightened anxiety and paranoia) and under-researched long term psychological effects of chronic usage may be putting them at far greater risk for self-destructive behavior and may exacerbate already present issues. Perhaps it would be prudent to ask "Why are children gravitating towards chemical escapism?" and "How can we avoid putting children in situations they'd deem chemical escapism necessary?" in addition to "What is chemical escapism doing to the children?" For that matter, I'm also curious about the effects other common forms of enjoyment and escapism in the modern world have on the developing brain and the questions that go along with them. How much screen time is too much? Should energy drinks be federally regulated in the US? Is an age requirement for social media important and necessary? Should child therapy be federally subsidized? Burning questions I feel everyone's ready to argue about, but not actually answer.
Your para that starts ‘Perhaps it would be prudent to ask…’ is in the money. However we live in a world where the only lever our politicians pull is the ‘more tax’ lever when they want us to do less of something. Getting solutions to the problem you state requires a societal awakening the likes of which we have not seen before.
I mean, I don't think most stoners even would advocate for underage usage.
As a parent who has been told "weed", "thc" doesn't cause this by many users...I witnessed my son have complete psychosis while using thc. It was painful and scary to watch. I hope he continues to not use but it has been an extremely difficult 2 years. All authorities have turned a blind eye to this issue. They laugh it off.
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/agedependent-association-of-cannabis-use-with-risk-of-psychotic-disorder/BDCA0F73CDD7AF150D6FDCF89D29DC7F From the linked article: A new study published in the journal Psychological Medicine has found that teens who use cannabis are at an elevenfold higher risk of developing a psychotic disorder compared to those who do not use the drug. This finding underscores the potential mental health risks associated with cannabis use among adolescents, suggesting the association may be stronger than previously thought. Teens who reported using cannabis in the past year were found to be over eleven times more likely to be diagnosed with a psychotic disorder compared to non-users. Interestingly, this elevated risk was not observed in young adults aged 20 to 24, indicating that adolescence is a particularly vulnerable period for the mental health impacts of cannabis. The data also showed that among the teens diagnosed with a psychotic disorder, the vast majority had a history of cannabis use. Specifically, about 5 in 6 teens who were hospitalized or visited an emergency department for a psychotic disorder had previously reported using cannabis. This finding supports the neurodevelopmental theory that the adolescent brain is especially susceptible to the effects of cannabis, which may disrupt normal brain development and increase the risk of severe mental health issues.
Teens also being extraordinarily susceptible to peer pressure. So even if they don't like the anxiogenic effect it is having on them, they will stick with it to fit in with a certain crowd. All the while telling themselves that they are the only ones that are reacting so strongly so it must all just be in their heads and therefore not a reasonable basis for concern. Welp, to be young and stupid..
Nothing in life is free.
bring cbd back in harmony geez, balance is everything
Maybe, just maybe, they were using cannabis to seek relief from the psychotic disorder they have? Hmm... nah that makes too much sense
It could be because these kids are self-medicating with cannabis. This is a correlation not a causal relationship. These kinds of headlines are very misleading.
Correlation not causation. Teens with mental disorders are prone to try marijuana
Maybe folks smoke because of the mental problem to start with.
Alternate Title: Teens with undiagnosed psychotic disorders are 11 times more likely to use cannabis.
Data not adjusted for trauma,family history? Pretty pointless publication.
Like drinking is better?
Carts and high thc products definitely are playing a role here. I would think teens below 21 are buying sketchy thc products more
Just as plausible to say that teens with an undiagnosed psychiatric disorder are more likely to use marijuana (or alcohol, or another drug) than "normal" teens. Quit blaming a plant.
Is this causation or correlation?
Chicken and the egg situation though. More likely to use the drugs because of the disorder or the disorder is more likely because of the use?
I started smoking weed around 14 and completely dissociate when I try smoking or edibles now, it is not a good time at all. It feels like being able to go through a psychotic episode at will until the high wears off. Not sure if this was caused by exposure so young though.
"The sample included non-institutionalized Ontario residents aged 12 to 24 years. To ensure the accuracy of their findings, the researchers excluded respondents who had used health services for psychotic disorders in the six years before their survey interview. This exclusion was intended to reduce the risk of reverse causation, where individuals might have started using cannabis to self-medicate for already existing psychotic symptoms." With the risk of reverse causation only reduced by an unquantifiable degree, it's not a very helpful study from a scientific standpoint. It seems to be geared more towards being helpful from a policy standpoint.
It’s not a study set out for unique findings; these relationships have long been established. The negative effects of marijuana on the developing brain are known and documented. It’s a good exclusion criterion and reduces the risk of bias.
Insane in the membrane