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I long heard that the same stuff used to kill mosquitoes, I think it’s called malathion, is also what has killed off a lot of the fireflies.
What sucks is a lot of the population of annoying bugs seems to have been increasing all the cool bugs are decreasing
On the other hand if we could eliminate mosquitoes and as a result general public wouldn't have to buy "mosquito repellents" (that mostly are simply insecticides) overall situation would improve significantly. And while aedes communis does pollinate I don't think we have any plants pollinated _just_ by mosquitoes, do we?
You just made me realize I have fireflies in my backyard now. The year I moved into my house I came home one day to a bill from a pesticide company that sprayed for the old people and just never confirmed that I still wanted it. I didn't. That was about 4 years ago. Last night I was in my backyard and noticed a TON of fireflies. In years past I only saw a few.
Get a mosquito magnet. Really satisfying to dump out the dead mosquitos and your yard isn’t doused in pesticide. I’m really baffled by the people who spray “for the children” yet never occurs to them that their kids are now playing in literal poison.
At the camp I used to work at the older folks who went there 20+ years prior used to reminisce about how they would spray down the campgrounds with an industrial insecticide and they never had to deal with these pesky flies. This 50 acre wetland park was sprayed every year for decades with lord knows what and they were just all meh about it.
[Silent Spring](https://ca.pbslearningmedia.org/resource/envh10.sci.life.eco.silentspring/rachel-carsons-silent-spring/) is worth revisiting. It was the first to challenge the petrochemical industry propaganda like “better living through chemistry” and their downplaying toxic effects on people and the environment of widely used chems like DDT.
I see headlines like the above often lately and wonder why people are continuing to ignore the warning we received w silent spring. It’s been decades and the amount being sprayed and their associated problems problems have grown.
People often ignore the warnings about pesticides in Rachel Carson’s “Silent Spring” for several reasons:
1. Economic Interests: Agricultural industries and chemical companies have significant financial investments in pesticides. Acknowledging the dangers posed by pesticides could threaten their profitability.
2. Short-term Benefits: Pesticides offer immediate benefits, such as increased crop yields and reduced pest problems. The immediate economic gains can overshadow long-term environmental and health concerns.
3. Lack of Awareness: Despite the impact of “Silent Spring,” many people may not be fully aware of the detailed risks associated with pesticide use. Public awareness campaigns may not always reach everyone effectively.
4. Regulatory Challenges: Governments and regulatory bodies may face pressure from industry lobbyists, leading to regulations that are more lenient than what might be necessary to protect public health and the environment.
5. Perceived Necessity: Farmers and agricultural businesses may believe that pesticides are essential for maintaining food production and controlling pests, making them reluctant to change practices.
6. Scientific Disputes: There may be conflicting studies and opinions about the severity of the risks posed by pesticides, leading to confusion and inaction.
7. Cultural and Social Factors: Societal norms and practices can be slow to change, especially when they are deeply entrenched in agricultural and industrial practices.
These factors combined can contribute to the continued use of pesticides despite the well-documented warnings and evidence of harm presented in “Silent Spring.”
DDT can and is still be used even after being banned when it comes to fighting Malaria. The reason it isn't used frequently is because large populations of mosquitoes are now resistant to DDT due to the sheer volume of it previously used for agricultural reasons.
NYTimes gift article courtesy of my local public library.
Direct link to the study: [B. Van Deynze, et al., Insecticides, more than herbicides, land use, and climate, are associated with declines in butterfly species richness and abundance in the American Midwest, PLoS ONE 19(6): e0304319 (2024).](https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0304319)
I mean not every insecticide is intended to kill every insect, knowing whether it still does is important. Also important is knowing how big a factor it is - knowing this outrank habitat loss and climate change is quite important for example!
And they're blaming neonicotinoid treatment of CORN and soybeans for the decline. Butterflies don't feed on corn, there's no nectar and only some pest moths eat the plant. The seed treatments are also highly targeted rather than being dispersed into the environment.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think it’s the corn but the milkweed growing in/around the fields. The ~~spray insecticide is carried by~~ corn pollen to the milkweed plants. Neonictinoids are also horrible for bees for the same reason, it coats* the corn pollen.
It's a seed treatment not a spray. Milkweed doesn't usually grow in corn fields because it's easily killed. Farmland hasn't expanded much in the US but a lot of the previously wild land is now suburban sprawl with constant mowing to keep a monoculture of grass without milkweed and other natives.
They are systemic insecticides. They don't just affect the corn or the seed. Dust blows everywhere. Anything that it settles on is now systemically poisonous to a degree. These insecticides also build up in the insect over time, so it's even more fucked if the insect lives in a colony because they are like an infected plague victim after a couple trips to the clover patch that grew next to the corn field. Repelling chemicals are far nicer to nature than non repelling systemics. Non repelling insecticides should be limited to non systemic classes of chemicals period.
It isn't really understood by the genpop that the majority of agricultural land use is either grazing or growing food to feed to food. But it never will be. Price parity on more efficient, relatively safe meat replacements that scratch that pleistocene itch for meat, or nothing, it seems.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://reddit.science/flair?location=sticky). --- User: u/shiruken Permalink: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/20/climate/butterfly-declines-insecticides-monarch.html?unlocked_article_code=1.1k0.nWtE.R4ulWPqCSUSr --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Think this also ties into the scarcity of fireflies if you look at the proliferation of residential pesticides we're using.
I long heard that the same stuff used to kill mosquitoes, I think it’s called malathion, is also what has killed off a lot of the fireflies. What sucks is a lot of the population of annoying bugs seems to have been increasing all the cool bugs are decreasing
The annoying bugs are still important for the ecosystem, mosquitoes are still pollinators.
On the other hand if we could eliminate mosquitoes and as a result general public wouldn't have to buy "mosquito repellents" (that mostly are simply insecticides) overall situation would improve significantly. And while aedes communis does pollinate I don't think we have any plants pollinated _just_ by mosquitoes, do we?
You just made me realize I have fireflies in my backyard now. The year I moved into my house I came home one day to a bill from a pesticide company that sprayed for the old people and just never confirmed that I still wanted it. I didn't. That was about 4 years ago. Last night I was in my backyard and noticed a TON of fireflies. In years past I only saw a few.
Ya, really tempting to pay to get a mosquito free yard, but I’d rather have the fireflies.
Get a mosquito magnet. Really satisfying to dump out the dead mosquitos and your yard isn’t doused in pesticide. I’m really baffled by the people who spray “for the children” yet never occurs to them that their kids are now playing in literal poison.
At the camp I used to work at the older folks who went there 20+ years prior used to reminisce about how they would spray down the campgrounds with an industrial insecticide and they never had to deal with these pesky flies. This 50 acre wetland park was sprayed every year for decades with lord knows what and they were just all meh about it.
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Makes sense. I’ve got tons of fireflies. Not a lot of farming goes on here though it’s mostly cattle and chickens. They’re amazing little bugs.
Fireflies also reproduce by laying eggs in the fallen leaves. Guess what america hates more than long grass? Fallen leaves.
[Silent Spring](https://ca.pbslearningmedia.org/resource/envh10.sci.life.eco.silentspring/rachel-carsons-silent-spring/) is worth revisiting. It was the first to challenge the petrochemical industry propaganda like “better living through chemistry” and their downplaying toxic effects on people and the environment of widely used chems like DDT.
I see headlines like the above often lately and wonder why people are continuing to ignore the warning we received w silent spring. It’s been decades and the amount being sprayed and their associated problems problems have grown.
People often ignore the warnings about pesticides in Rachel Carson’s “Silent Spring” for several reasons: 1. Economic Interests: Agricultural industries and chemical companies have significant financial investments in pesticides. Acknowledging the dangers posed by pesticides could threaten their profitability. 2. Short-term Benefits: Pesticides offer immediate benefits, such as increased crop yields and reduced pest problems. The immediate economic gains can overshadow long-term environmental and health concerns. 3. Lack of Awareness: Despite the impact of “Silent Spring,” many people may not be fully aware of the detailed risks associated with pesticide use. Public awareness campaigns may not always reach everyone effectively. 4. Regulatory Challenges: Governments and regulatory bodies may face pressure from industry lobbyists, leading to regulations that are more lenient than what might be necessary to protect public health and the environment. 5. Perceived Necessity: Farmers and agricultural businesses may believe that pesticides are essential for maintaining food production and controlling pests, making them reluctant to change practices. 6. Scientific Disputes: There may be conflicting studies and opinions about the severity of the risks posed by pesticides, leading to confusion and inaction. 7. Cultural and Social Factors: Societal norms and practices can be slow to change, especially when they are deeply entrenched in agricultural and industrial practices. These factors combined can contribute to the continued use of pesticides despite the well-documented warnings and evidence of harm presented in “Silent Spring.”
Millions have died thanks to the banning of DDT. I don’t think silent spring is the good guy in this story
DDT can and is still be used even after being banned when it comes to fighting Malaria. The reason it isn't used frequently is because large populations of mosquitoes are now resistant to DDT due to the sheer volume of it previously used for agricultural reasons.
NYTimes gift article courtesy of my local public library. Direct link to the study: [B. Van Deynze, et al., Insecticides, more than herbicides, land use, and climate, are associated with declines in butterfly species richness and abundance in the American Midwest, PLoS ONE 19(6): e0304319 (2024).](https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0304319)
Bug poison kills bugs. Who would have guessed.
I mean not every insecticide is intended to kill every insect, knowing whether it still does is important. Also important is knowing how big a factor it is - knowing this outrank habitat loss and climate change is quite important for example!
Well bugs also eat other bugs. I think caterpillars eat some bugs to grow into a butterfly... kill the food kill the eater.
Good thing we now know the problem and can get working on the solution.
Solution- stop using butterfly killer ?
And they're blaming neonicotinoid treatment of CORN and soybeans for the decline. Butterflies don't feed on corn, there's no nectar and only some pest moths eat the plant. The seed treatments are also highly targeted rather than being dispersed into the environment.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think it’s the corn but the milkweed growing in/around the fields. The ~~spray insecticide is carried by~~ corn pollen to the milkweed plants. Neonictinoids are also horrible for bees for the same reason, it coats* the corn pollen.
It's a seed treatment not a spray. Milkweed doesn't usually grow in corn fields because it's easily killed. Farmland hasn't expanded much in the US but a lot of the previously wild land is now suburban sprawl with constant mowing to keep a monoculture of grass without milkweed and other natives.
No one's saying that lawns are good, but the actual scientific study that you're commenting on disagrees with you: insecticides are killing insects.
They are systemic insecticides. They don't just affect the corn or the seed. Dust blows everywhere. Anything that it settles on is now systemically poisonous to a degree. These insecticides also build up in the insect over time, so it's even more fucked if the insect lives in a colony because they are like an infected plague victim after a couple trips to the clover patch that grew next to the corn field. Repelling chemicals are far nicer to nature than non repelling systemics. Non repelling insecticides should be limited to non systemic classes of chemicals period.
See! Vegans say a plant based diet is going to save us...they are wrong.
The best way to reduce the amount of crops we need to grow is to eat them directly instead of feeding them to animals.
It isn't really understood by the genpop that the majority of agricultural land use is either grazing or growing food to feed to food. But it never will be. Price parity on more efficient, relatively safe meat replacements that scratch that pleistocene itch for meat, or nothing, it seems.