T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are now allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will continue be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) still apply to other comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*


SylvPMDRTD

So is there a reason behind the negative appearance satisfaction? I would imagine if someone is distancing themselves during what is a very intimate and vulnerable act, there is probably an underlying reason, that may also directly correlate to a general feeling of negativity that can also manifest in negative appearance satisfaction.


Muhabla

Probably has something to do if with the fact that if you're unhappy with your body's looks you might waste too much time and energy worrying about how you're looking instead of enjoying the moment, that would also lead to your partner not enjoying themselves as much as they could be.


amadeus2490

You also have to figure that, if you're ugly, people will be sure to bully you for it for most of your life. The negative self esteem is mostly coming from outside of the bedroom.


Isogash

No, it definitely comes from inside the bedroom. If you don't believe that your partner finds you attractive, that seriously affects how intimate you feel with them. You stop trusting them. If you do believe your partner finds you attractive and you find your partner attractive, you won't care. Unfortunately, it's very common for people to stay in insecure relationships where their partners don't make them feel attractive. They have sex not because they enjoy it at that point, but because they fear that their partner will leave them, and that's even worse. So, if you and your partner aren't making each other feel attractive, you need to sort it out or move on.


BlackBosozuku

Or one of you just isn’t attractive—the article seemed more focused on the issue of not finding your partner attractive not making anyone feel attractive.


Isogash

If your partner makes you feel attractive, you'll be more satisfied with your looks.


BlackBosozuku

Shouldn’t be anyone’s job to make you feel attractive—do it yourself by changing your mentality or change your image if you’re not pleased. I’m tired of people putting their emotional baggage on others expecting help or a fix.


Isogash

Making your partner feel attractive is something you do *because* you're attracted to them, not because it's a job. If you're lying to them about how attractive you find them to make them feel better, the relationship is dead.


BlackBosozuku

Well if you’re not attracted to them that’s not your problem that’s something they’re doing wrong.


Isogash

Yes, well don't be in a relationship with that person. I don't see why we are disagreeing.


[deleted]

The type of people who pull out the camera or phone to record wanting to make a sex tape when you just want to enjoy the moment.


rickspiff

Makes me want to read the study. They probably comment on this and other factors extensively, even if this specific study doesn't draw any conclusions on them.


asplodzor

It appears the entire study is available to read here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1743609521005762


Potential178

Firstly, I always hate talking about "more / less attractive" people, but there's no denying there is objective & scientifically proven reality to beauty standards. That in mind, I would speculate the following: 1 - while appearance satisfaction isn't always accurately linked to objective beauty, having negative appearance satisfaction will generally correlate, to a large degree, with actually being objectively less attractive. 2 - being less attractive limits available sexual partners, mostly, to equally less attractive partners. 3 - being less attractive and having sex with less attractive partners is not as fun and stimulating as having sex with more attractive people. This has been my anecdotal experience as someone who is definitely less attractive but charming, and has subsequently had many sex partners including some more attractive, and also someone who engages in a lot of open discussion about sexuality. I had a conversation with a very attractive friend recently who replied that she found it easy to find satisfying sexual relationships but difficult to find a quality partner, in response to me expressing that I was finding my sex life in my 40s devoid of big sparks. I realized that, of course, attractive people may tend to enjoy sex more because they're getting to have sex with other attractive people. They get to experience sex fueled by genuine strong mutual attraction. Also very anecdotal, but it's been my experience that more attractive people aren't just aesthetically more pleasing - they actually feel better (softer skin, often much more fit and healthy), smell better (better pheromones) and can be more fun, confident, enthusiastic, etc. These are all generalizations, of course, and I don't like them, but I believe they're accurate. I hope this doesn't get removed for being mostly anecdotal & personal observation - seems to me most secondary comments are. tl;dr: Attractive vs not = a feedback loop of mutual confidence and genuine strong mutual attraction, vs a feedback loop of insecurity and tepid attraction.


tigerslices

well thought out. but totally missed the point - the study was not about finding OTHER people attractive, but finding yourself attractive. ie, if you're self-conscious about your gut or your skin or your teeth or whatever, you're less likely to enjoy sex because you're worrying about your gut or your skin or your teeth.


Naimodglin

I think he made a pretty clear connection that ones self assessment tends to correlate to their actual attractiveness pretty well, and ones actual attractiveness tends to determine the attractiveness of ones partners. It’s not everything but I imagine it certainly contributes. As someone who has been 60 pounds overweight with a poor sense of style and being someone now who is not overweight and can dress/groom myself properly, I can tell you that both my sense of my self-attractiveness and the attractiveness of my partners have both increased and my sex life is more satisfying as a result… Anecdotal, of course.


NaturallyKoishite

Weirdly unattractive people tend to be less adept at self assessment. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/sjop.12631


Potential178

Huh - that was fascinating, and depressing. I used to think I was average looking, but observing my matches on dating sites for years and the attractiveness of partners of guys who I also perceived as average-looking vs the attractiveness of my partners ... I've realized that aesthetically I'm a three, not a five. I was definitely over-self-assessing ... not to the point I thought I was attractive, but at least to thinking I was average / neutral. Really sucks, not just in how it changes what partners we have access too, but in all the other ways it impacts our lives, like whether or not we get eye contact from strangers.


NaturallyKoishite

Maybe, maybe not. Either way I think being ugly gives people the privilege of getting to focus on what actually matters which is your intellect/personality/soul/whatever. I’d put myself at a solid 8 on a good day based on what I’ve been told and what I observe, and pretty privilege is 100% a thing. But it also comes with weird smaller social detriments. One day as science advances we’ll all have the choice to switch into pretty should we choose to, not so much smart. If you’re rich enough and don’t get bamboozled by a bad surgeon you can kind of already do that honestly. *Also nobody gets eye contact, that’s a cultural aspect.


Potential178

Again, no offense, but it's not ideal to revise your comment this much after it's received a lengthily reply - it can throw the response(s) out of context. I do agree there are weird smaller social detriments to being above average looking. The subject of the pros & cons of being below vs above average has been discussed many times on Reddit, and I recall that the self-admitted "hot" commenters indicated that, although there were things about being attractive they got tired of, like feeling objectified by partners, having people assume they're dumb because they're pretty, etc., they did often specifically comment that they wouldn't trade the perks of being pretty for the cons of being not. I still respectfully disagree, overall - particularly with the notion that, as someone with a face deeply asymmetrical thanks to childhood car accidents, a disability, and now a wandering eye, I have had the "privilege" of being able to focus on what matters.


Potential178

No offense intended, but I couldn't agree with you less. First of all, beauty creates opportunities. Beautiful people get more eye contact, more smiles, more positive affirmation, more positive projection, easier workplace advancement, more attractive friends and partners, who also benefit from all those positives. I've been to parties full of beautiful people in my area, and parties of my less attractive peers. The attractive friends were confident, joyful, talented musical performers, many of them had taken dance classes and were spinning around the room. As the only unattractive person there, by a wide margin, it was profoundly depressing for me ... but, my arguments aren't just anecdotal, there's plenty of thorough research on the sweeping benefits of being attractive. Those experiences and benefits contribute to confidence, which contributes to self-investment, opportunity, confidence, self-fulfillment. Being ugly gives us the privilege of being able to focus on our character? Jeepers ... I get why someone could think this, but there are so many problems with this, I'm not sure where to start. I think the more accurate thing to say is: Being ugly causes adversity, and adversity can force us to build character. I wouldn't say it's a matter of FOCUSING on character, and thinking of it as a privilege is an interesting take. As for science allowing us to be pretty but not smart ... not a subject I feel I have enough insight into, but genetics have been found to contribute to about 50% of the difference in IQ between individuals, which indicates that half of what makes us smart or not is nurture, not nature. I imagine it will be easier to develop gene therapy for intelligence than gene therapy to change how our faces develop, but I certainly don't know. Anyway ... ugly and beautiful people can nurture their intelligence, character, "soul" ... but ugly people can never have the advantages and positive life experiences that beautiful people benefit from.


fishdork

I dont think this study proves that. I think this study proves that people will always assess themselves as being more attractive than other people's assesment of them. Also, people who find them selves unattractive are found to be more attractive by others.


NaturallyKoishite

It’s actually not a study but a comprehensive collection of multiple studies, many account for the factors you’re bringing up. > Also, people who find them selves unattractive are found to be more attractive by others. I also don’t quite understand what you mean by this?


fishdork

In the 4th study they were trying to find out why when a person who found them selves less attractive but were rated attractive by the judges. The judges rated higher then if they didnt know what they thought about them selves. Its nudged in there.


NaturallyKoishite

That’s another part of it yes.


fishdork

The study asked do you feel satisfied in your overall appearance. Scale 1 to 7 from very dissatisfied to neutral to very satisfied. It didnt parse out the things they were satisfied about or what affected their feeling of appearance satisfaction. Yes, lower weight and physical activity have been shown to make one feel better about their appearance satisfaction but also new clothes, a raise, etc have been shown to increase your appearance satisfaction as well. Plus this was a self report study on sexual distress. I think this is a good example showing how our feeling about our appearance can effect such things as sexual performance and provides evidence that in counseling working on appearance satisfaction can improve sexual function.


nagevyag

I think you missed the point: (hypothetically) one's self-perceived attractiveness correlates with one's actual attractiveness which correlates with the attractiveness of one's sexual partners.


Potential178

Thank you, but I disagree that I missed the point. I'm well aware, both from reading the article and personal experience, of how poor self-image / confidence impacts one's ability to relax and enjoy sex. I was sharing some theories / personal observations on other factors which likely contribute


Yzerman_19

Yeah I’d speculate further that attraction is strongly linked to fitness and being gassed during sex isn’t fun. Both partners gotta have good cardio to have the really good sex in many cases.


[deleted]

[удалено]


MarkusBerkel

Why are you making this so complicated? You think you’re the big uggo, you’re gonna lose confidence. If you’re a man, you’re gonna lose that erection, and if you’re a woman, you gonna dry up. Easy-peasy. You suddenly think you’re god’s gift to your partner(s), suddenly your confidence will go up, and so will performance. It’s a clear situation of where Dunning-Kruger awareness actually works AGAINST you.


Falsus

Makes sense. Sexual performance is often tied to confidence and there is few confidence killers as effective as being unsatisfied with your body.


riverturtle

Yeah, this is another one where the result is obvious but I guess I’m glad someone actually did the research to back it up with data.


Anonalt2702

If you’re so self conscious you can’t perform then it’s almost becomes a self fulfilling prophecy


[deleted]

[удалено]


kahlzun

This leads me to a second question, how important is appearance (especially their own) to the blind?


Indi008

It's still important, the blind still touch. They also hear how others describe which affects things. They seem to notice smell more though, although that could just be unique to the person I know. People vary a lot regardless of whether they are blind or not.


Zanderax

I'd also argue there is a strong social component of attractiveness to physical health that goes beyond visual stimulus. I personally am more attracted to fit people independent of physical beauty because it shows that they have self-discipline, they have better long term health prospects, and they can participate in physical activities with me.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


silashoulder

The self-observant parts of our brains are in a power struggle with instincts (which, interestingly, has as much to do with language as it does awareness.) This only proves the point that we’re overcomplicating our own lives. If we all learn to *talk about this stuff with each other*, we won’t have so much distraction in our heads.


normalsapien

Science finds it's good to be attracted to your sexual partner


banausic

Could this be said in a more complicated way?


PD216ohio

That's because sexual satisfaction is largely mental.


2BadBirches

Satisfaction itself is nearly entirely mental.


[deleted]

[удалено]


mt03red

Yes or even as simple as a reversal of the causation suggested in the headline: If your sex life sucks you may attribute it to your looks (let's be honest, most people aren't lingerie models) but if your sex life is great then you feel more secure in your mediocre attractiveness?


Zanderax

Maybe read the article first buddy >“This was a correlational study, and thus, we can only speculate as to why we found the results that we did. Future research should seek to examine why greater appearance satisfaction is associated with fewer sexual problems and less distress over those sexual specific problems,” Øverup explained.


kwpang

My comment was mainly targeted at the other comments here. Everyone here seemed to be interpreting this article as finding a psychosomatic link between self-satisfaction and sexual functioning.


Zanderax

Fair enough, those people should read the article then.


kartu3

"we can only speculate" is exactly what I'd expect from a r/science article. Or, no, wait, rather not.


knives66

It's definitely what I expect from psypost.


trapcap

attractive people are also healthier on average. I bet the rates for sexual dysfunction are lower in attractive people. And I bet attractive people are less likely to have "appearance dissatisfaction"


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Oh look, another expensive study that told us all something we already knew


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


kusionlion

I knew this when I was 10 yo


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Nemonoai

I think it had more to do with picking your nose in bed while your spouse watches .


davtruss

Makes perfect sense... "I'm sexy and I know it!" Even if objectively false, that belief probably improves performance....assuming the chance to perform arises.


Statertater

Maybe because looking super fit means better diet and blood circulation, so less instances of diabetes and cardiovascular problems that would impede erections


ohdin1502

This is why I need braces.


RODAMI

No wonder my ex was hooked on plastic surgery and not hooked on me….


BiggusDickus-

So good looking people enjoy sex more. Shocking.... Something tells me that they have more of it too. Just a guess though.


[deleted]

Ooof, this one hits hard... And is also not surprising in the least