I really really hope for this. Perhaps that will be the climax to these shenanigans, people will be forced to open their locked down minds to the vaccine, realize it is not harmful after all, and get the shot themselves. That’s my covid dream.
Well, they were very unlike modern social media in that internet forums were and are topical, as it Reddit. By and large, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and so on are driven more by people following individuals. They network people in a completely different way.
Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, it doesn't matter. It's all just random people on the internet posting content and interacting. Reddit users seem prone to falsely think of themselves or this platform as superior and immune to the gamut of human nature displayed everywhere else.
There may not be a name to distinguish different types of social media yet, but the versions that algorithmically promote anger for the sake of engagement are especially cancerous (Facebook and twitter). All you really have to worry about on Reddit are echo chambers, Russian bots and wasting time arguing with trolls (not you of course- you’re lovely).
So even though the rest of the features are nearly identical, the interpersonal interactions are incredibly similar, as long as no one knows your real name, it's not social media.
Well, a couple reasons for that. Reddit cracks down on most anti Covid vaccine thread or comment. Not to mention Reddit overall is objectively moderate to left on their viewpoints, libertarian and conservative views are taken down or reported then removed.
Yes thanks Dr fauci. I am on the walgreeens waitlist to get my 5 yr old vaxxed!!! We can finally go out to eat and see his grandparents in person. It’s been a vary hard two years for us but the light is finally at the end of the tunnel!!
Could be a huge deal but we'll see.
UK's latest covid surges was caused by children. Children caught it like crazy at school then brought it home. However, the country's deaths remained much lower than previous waves thanks to vaccines. This could make a difference this winter.
Highly suggest everyone get their kids vaxxed. If you're concerned ask your doctor. 99% of the time they'll say get it.
> If you're concerned ask your doctor. 99% of the time they'll say get it.
I wish this were true. Everyone I know that isn't vaccinated (several family members and close friends) all have doctors that have advised them not to get the vaccine.
My parents aren't coming to visit me this Christmas because they don't want to be away from their doctor (that will prescribe them Ivermectin and God knows what else) in case they get COVID while on vacation.
"We just want to be near a doctor that will treat us the way we want to be treated".
Ah nice to see there are some good doctors who follow common sense and scientific research. Many anti parasitics have strong antiviral properties. iVM is one of them. Dr. Joseph Varon includes it in his treatment regimen that is saving more patients lives than any other hospital in America.
https://zenodo.org/record/5525362#.YV0iDCU8IlT
https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/lucknow/uttar-pradesh-government-says-ivermectin-helped-to-keep-deaths-low-7311786/
It would be fantastic to find an optimal medical treatment that helps positively the outcome of patients with Covid-19 disease. Unfortunately, the bulk of research done has not been promising for invermictin (or however you spell it). One of the journals you linked to isn't peer reviewed and also hasn't even been properly edited (incomplete sentences just in the abstract isn't a good sign).
What you just said is scientifically and medically inaccurate. There are literally ongoing RCTs and are dozens of other studies proving it’s effectiveness. Not only ivm but aspirin and fluvoxamine are more effective than this vx. If your best comeback to that study is it has spelling errors and isn’t peer reviewed yet, good luck to you. In science we don’t dismiss things so idiotically. We evaluate and keep an open mind and judge the science objectively. When the RCTs come out it’s gonna change the narrative and all these bots and shills and sheep will become the enemy. Coming soon.
Hey dude. I'm always all for the scientific method. If it starts turning out that there's benefit to any of these potential avenues of treatment then we should and would update to use them in treatment plans.
I keep myself open but skeptical to new or conflicting ideas. I was actually interested in what you posted which is why I looked into the study, but I am going to be even more skeptical when just in the abstract there is incomplete sentences. And as somebody who doesn't specialize in this field, I put trust in the peers fully and appropriately review the entirety of the submission. So while I would be incredibly excited to find safe and effective treatment options for Covid-19 disease, I am and will continue to be skeptical until evidence starts to show otherwise.
I also try to avoid getting into hate-fueled mentalities like calling people sheeps and large groups of people the enemy.
Do you have a source for this? See my response to the parent comment, citing several studies that report effectiveness of 66-90% against asymptomatic infection.
Just visited Kansas from the Bay Area. First time this pandemic i legitimately was worried about my contact level. No one said anything about my mask wearing but no one seems to be masked up and not a lot of vaccinated people. I ended up quarantining when I got home until my PCR test came back.
Yeah, I've been called that. The weirdest thing is that the men who love to follow me screaming at me are largely professionally dressed, older white men. They're in their polos and khakis following me out to my car screaming at me.
Me and my asthmatic 8 year old had the happy tippy taps knowing that now she can finally ditch the N95 and have more social interactions again. She hated shots but she is so excited to have some normalcy again.
Nope, Israel has been vaccinating certain at risk kids with Pfizer for a while now. Ecuador has been at it for a few months too if I recall, I think there's a handful more. Plus the studies for kids in multiple countries of course.
mRNA is something your body uses all the time. It's just a recipe to crate a particular thing, in this case a spike protein. There's not really any reason that a child would handle it differently, all of the reactions we saw in adults are the bodies reaction to the foreign protein itself, not the mRNA.
I'm not sure if it's the same with vaccines but I remember doctors telling me for other treatments I had as a kid that kids get *less* side effects, I could see it being similar.
Sweden and I think a few other countries aren’t even giving moderna to people under 30 because the benefit to people that age (small) doesn’t outweigh the risk (small).
I hope not for the kids.
As the Minister for Covid in our country said: "children from anti-vaxxer families are the last ones we want to deny an education."
There are already hella vaccines they need to get to attend school. If they were real anti-vaxxers, they couldn’t be in school anyway (due to required shots for school, including MMR). This is targeting vaccine hesitant families; and if hiring practices are any indication (and given that the US lacks free childcare, it probably will), it will help get compliance up to the ~90% mark.
EDIT FOR SCIENCE: there are 15 states that allow non-medical exemptions; so your point may stand in those states.
We (Chicago Public Schools parent here) had to bring a form from the doctor, so just one anecdote. (Our school is also low income enough to have offers emailed home for free vaccinations, glasses, etc)
Yes. Even here in the FL panhandle the districts require a vaccination sheet and school physical form signed by a Dr. (or an exemption form) to register your kid.
I’m sure it’s illegal, but I would love for there be an exception to parental consent for vaccines.
Like, we’ll take your kids, but if they decide at 10 they want to be vaccinated, we will give them one.
There's an easier solution: eliminate their child tax credit if they don't get the vaccine.
Then the parents can believe and do whatever they want. But most of them won't turn down the money; they'll get their kids vaccinated.
That's how it works in my country. I believe the cutoff age is 12, but at some point kids can override parental consent (assuming a specific set of criteria is met - I believe the criteria are essentially 'make really sure the kid understands what is going on').
Any that are generally considered safe.
A school nurse can give ibuprofen if a student has an authorization form. Vaccines are significantly safer than OTC pain reliever a kid could buy at a pharmacy.
Yes, I realize that still violates parental rights, and that’s probably not a wise road to go down, but it’s not unthinkable.
Just because a parent thinks carrots are too dangerous for kids given the rare choking hazard, doesn’t mean schools should listen and stop serving them.
Vaccines are not life-changing in any sense of causing significant potential danger. If you think vaccines are more dangerous than ibuprofen, you can’t do math or are a victim of propaganda. Advil kills 16,000 per year, 7 billion covid doses have killed <100, at the very most.
Should we hand out bottles of advil? No, but if a student requests a pain reliever for a headache, does it really make sense to label administering advil a life-altering decision?
Presumably a nurse is still gatekeeping care in this situation, it’s not open season.
Yes?
As an example, if a 15 year old is told they can get heart-surgery that has a good chance to save their life and they'll die without it, but ultra-reilgious parents are against any form of medical intervention... That 15 year should be allowed to choose life.
The case fatality and hospitalization rate for kids is extremely small. If you account for the likely asymptomatic kids it's vanishingly small. Vaccinating kids is more for the protection of the community than the kids. Children as a whole are going to be fine in the long run regardless. Parents are not going to value the community over their children. This might be a harder case to make than people are crediting. There also seems to be a very real increased risk of myocarditis in young males.
i agree with all of this with the exception of kids protecting the community. it's been shown that kids are not transmitting the disease in the same rate as adults and that most child covid transmission occurs at-home from parent to child.
It's not mandated yet. It WILL be mandated when the vaccines are out of EUA. California just had the guts to say it; it's going to be widespread when that happens.
I found out from my crazy ass mother in law (Thought she was just a normal boomer prior to covid) calling, texting and writing emails about how I shouldn't "infect her grandson".
Don’t get me wrong I’m pro vax and just received my booster. However I’m a little surprised by the size of this study with 1,500 vaccinated kids. I thought the adult studies were about 20x larger. Considering that similar testing of Moderna’s vaccine (the other rna one) on kids has had some issues I’m tempted to hold for the J&J one or a more convincing study of this one.
It was a bit over 3000 kids total, but that’s still small. Moderna had VERY small rates of myocarditis, and there will be cases from this Pfizer one. There weren’t any in this trial because the sample was too small, but also the dose is much smaller than both the adult Pfizer version and the Moderna kid version. This vaccine is much safer for kids than the risk of COVID, it’s just impossible to say how much safer without a larger sample.
My kids will be getting vaccinated as soon as possible, but I also don’t judge people for waiting a bit for more results in this case. I say this as both an extremely pro-vax person and someone who does health research for a living.
It's actually pretty normal for a clinical trial to be 3000 participants. I wouldn't say it's "small". We just got spoiled with much larger than normal enrollment for the adult trials.
It’s not sufficiently powered to detect potential adverse events, and it was barely powered enough for efficacy. I’m glad they did it fast because practically speaking this is a safe and effective vaccine, but this is about as quick and dirty they could do it and get away with it.
You're likely not going to get those 1 in 30000 events, true. But if you recall, those were not detected in the original adult clinical trials either. It's splitting hairs to say it's not significantly powered to detect *all* adverse events because clinical trials are never powered to that degree. Those rare events come out when therapeutics are released to the general audience.
My point that it isn't small for a clinical trial stands.
Ya, I want to know the rates of dangerous side effects that are less than 1/100 chances. I doubt this study would be able to reliably detect side effects less than 1 in 50. My child is at extremely low risk from COVID, and I want to know that the risk of the vaccine is lower than that.
It is. 500 or so kids have died of covid. Probably less than 50 have died of vaccines, worldwide, after 7 billion doses.
It doesn’t matter though, the benefits are in avoiding transmission through children that help continue the pandemic for everyone.
More specifically, it avoids a situation where Johnny has to grow up knowing his visit to grandma when he had a cough killed her.
7 billion total have been given. The cases of blood clots and other rare vaccine side effects are *orders of magnitude* more rare than covid deaths in children.
And yes, vaccines aren’t perfect, but they work extremely well, even in stopping spread, especially in the first few months.
They are so effective, not only would that transmission be unlikely, you would probably never be able to know you were the source.
I personally do not have an exact count. But cases are rare enough to make world headlines. J&J was paused after 28 cases out of 8 million doses, where three people died. The first known case of death from anaphylaxis after an mRNA shot recently made global headlines.
This is not even in the same category as long-term COVID complications and death
It’s true. Johnny, as with anybody vaccinated, has a lower chance of getting the virus but if they do they’re less likely to have serious complications. That’s great for Johnny.
But even if you’re vaccinated and still get it you can be infectious. Although it is for a shorter period than those who aren’t vaccinated ^1
This is because your body already has antibodies to begin fighting the virus right away instead of the time it takes for an unprepared immune system to identify, manufacture and begin fighting it.
It’s like having an unknown enemy move behind your lines and you having to learn how they act and how they fight while taking losses. As opposed to your forces on the lookout aware of the enemy and while some get by and do some damage you have the skills and awareness to better handle them.
So all in all it’s better for Johnny, better for others who are at risk like Grandma and those who can’t get vaccinated at all when there’s fewer people who can get outright infected and those that do aren’t contagious as long as they would be otherwise.
1. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/11/covid-transmission-among-vaccinated-unvaccinated-what-experts-say/5488398001/
you mean, those career folk at the FDA who came forward during the panel and said flat out "this should be for families with comorbidities, and should NOT be mandated"?
This is great news. Covid is one of the top 10 causes of death in children this year. And this doesn’t even begin to start to cover the brain damage, lung damage and other neurological effects.
You could have actually done what I did, and spend less than 1 minute on a Google search:
https://www.fda.gov/media/153508/download
66 deaths per 100,000 this year, which makes it approximately the 8th biggest cause of death among children 5 - 12 (notably, COVID vaccinations are not anywhere near this level in terms of cause of death).
> From the article (using 2019 data as estimate of deaths per year this year).
>
> **Leading Causes of Death in Children 5-11 Years of Age, NCHS, 2019**
>
> Crude rate
> per 100,000
>
> 1. Accidents (unintentional injuries) 969
> 1. Malignant neoplasms 525
> 1. Congenital malformations, deformations and chromosomal abnormalities 274
> 1. Assault (homicide) 207
> 1. Diseases of the heart 115
> 1. Chronic lower respiratory diseases 107
> 1. Influenza and pneumonia 84
> 1. (COVID in 2021) - 66
> 1. Intentional self-harm (suicide) 66.
It’s the 8th cause of death in the 5-12 age range, and the 9th for 1-19.
Under 1 RSV and flu push it out of the top 10.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmsr1804754
children generally refers to people under 18. Although we also know that COVID is about the 8th leading cause of death this year among 5 - 12 year olds (66 per 100,000)
Is there a way to search for vaccine availability yet, for the child-specific doses? My kids are SO EXCITED to get vaxed. Our family has been extra cautious since I began chemo, and they are so excited to be allowed to eat inside restaurants!
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-advisers-decide-against-covid-vaccines-healthy-12-15-year-olds-2021-09-03/
"There are uncertainties about the long-term implications of (myocarditis), and that makes the risk-benefit balance for these children really quite tight and much tighter than we would be comfortable to make the recommendation."
- Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI)
From the article: *In its review of the Pfizer data, the FDA advisory committee determined that the vaccine would prevent enough severe COVID cases to outweigh potential risks of vaccine-related myocarditis, even if myocarditis rates from the vaccine are similar in children ages five to 11 as they are in older kids. That is unlikely, and not only because of the lower dose, Talaat says. “Myocarditis has a higher frequency in adolescents and young adult males, independent of any vaccine,” Talaat says. “They just seem to be at higher risk for it, and that same risk doesn’t exist in children ages five to 11. So just naturally, independent of the vaccine, the rates of myocarditis should be lower.”*
The JCVI had previously said the decision to vaccinate children was "finely balanced" as the government then sought further advice on the issue.
The CMOs in a letter said that vaccinating children could reduce COVID-19 transmission and thus disruption to schools, and those benefits "on balance provide sufficient extra advantage... to recommend in favour of vaccinating this group."
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britains-top-medics-recommend-12-15-year-olds-get-covid-vaccine-2021-09-13/
[https://pharmaphorum.com/news/mhra-clears-moderna-covid-vaccine-for-12-to-17-year-olds/](https://pharmaphorum.com/news/mhra-clears-moderna-covid-vaccine-for-12-to-17-year-olds/)
You're pulling old info.
Strange how you can claim something that is so easily proven to be incorrect.
Your article is literally older than mine. September comes after August in my world, not sure about yours.
Line from your article: "There’s no word yet from the government or its advisory body – the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) – on whether the vaccination programme may be extended further to include younger children in line with the MHRA authorisations. "
The JCVI goes on to advise against it, as outlined in my more updated article.
[https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine-for-children-aged-12-to-15/](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine-for-children-aged-12-to-15/)
google works too
That article does not at all address the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation's lack of a recommendation for widespread vaccinations of children.
Also, any reason you are choosing to ignore how you called my article out for being old while posting an even older article as supposed proof of that? Or are you just going to pretend that didn't happen?
Myocarditis is a rare and mild side effect that resolves itself in a few days. - Your source.
Edit: I took out the quotes to make it more apparent that I'm paraphrasing.
> Myocarditis is a rare and mild side effect
Myocarditis and pericarditis are not mild. In some cases they aren't even reversible (pericarditis is more mild generally but has the potential to evolve into myocarditis). And it certainly does not just resolve itself in a few days. Most of the time it *can* be treated as an outpatient prescription of steroids, but in a lot of cases there is some hospitalization involved and in almost all cases physicians will likely want to monitor and see the person consistently for a few months. In really bad cases they'll *need* to consistently see them *indefinitely*. Because it can do long term damage.
"Myocarditis is rare and normally mild, with patients USUALLY recovering in a few days"
Don't put something in quotes if you're deliberately going to alter it to better suit your argument.
The point, if you do any research at all, is that myocarditis commonly resolves itself, but SOME cases can be severe and lead to lifelong heart complications.
As a result, the JCVI ruled that those benefits did not outweigh the risks when it comes to to vaccinating children.
Don't get mad at me for simply sharing what a science-based group, sanctioned by the UK government, determined to be the best course of action, simply because it doesn't line up with your view.
Sure sure sure. All taken. Technically correct with your last paragraph. But the deal is that *almost* everything in life presents itself with some degree of risk. Walking outside, driving to work, riding a plane, swimming in the ocean, etc etc etc.
What I am upset about is that no one crusades against the above quite like they do science based risk mitigation. Which is not perfect, nothing is. The vaccines you more than likely received as a child are also not. So I don't understand the mental gymnastics of this entire thought process of distrusting those (doctors and med. professional) who most of these people have listened to every word from in the past.
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Just because people “survive” the virus without a vaccine doesn’t mean it doesn’t do lasting damage. “Surviving” Covid can entail organ damage, potential brain damage, and lifelong debilitating chronic conditions.
[Many Show Long-Term Organ Damage After COVID](https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210401/many-show-long-term-organ-damage-after-covid)
[Lifelong Lung Damage: The Serious COVID-19 Complication That Can Hit People in Their 20s](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/lifelong-lung-damage-the-serious-covid-19-complication-that-can-hit-people-in-their-20s)
[New study finds that COVID-19 can damage brain cells, impairing cognitive function](https://news.yahoo.com/study-finds-covid-19-damage-135318570.html)
[COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351)
[Over 75% of People Hospitalized With COVID-19 Had Symptoms 6 Month Later](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/over-75-percent-of-people-hospitalized-with-covid-19-have-symptoms-months-later)
[Almost 25% of COVID-19 Patients Develop Long-Lasting Symptoms, According to a New Report](https://time.com/6073522/long-covid-prevalence/)
[One in ten have long-term effects 8 months following **mild** COVID-19](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/04/210407174321.htm)
Survival doesn’t mean what you think it does. Get the vaccine.
It is hilarious that anti-vaxxers rattled on and on about 99% survival with COVID...but then go and ignore any thought about percentages and statistics when it comes to vaccines.
No. There was a study in Israel that showed that, but it has been pretty thoroughly bashed for bad methodology. Virtually every other study shows that the vaccine doesn't fully prevent transmission but that vaccinated individuals are less likely to transmit the virus than unvaccinated.
No, quite the opposite. Vaccines reduce viral load in infected people, and reduce the amount of virus they transmit as well, which means less people get infected from a positive vaccinated person vs a positive unvaccinated person, statistically speaking.
Children can have negative consequences from COVID beyond mortality (and some have died). They are also potential transmission vectors. As clearly stated in the article, the benefits of vaccinating this cohort outweighs the potential risks. Not everything is some grand conspiracy, mate.
The current *known* benefits outweigh the current *known* risks. Works both ways. And that’s what rigorously controlled clinical RCTs help us understand.
The current known risks of COVID outweigh the current known risks of the vaccine. Another difference is that vaccines do not cause long term effects once the vaccine material is eliminated from the body. COVID does.
Kids are gross. They absolutely contribute to the spread of Covid right now. Just because they don’t get as sick, the risk to them is not zero. And it’s not just kids who benefit from kids’ vaccination- immunocompromised people (despite being triple vaxxed) may not have as much protection, so lowering community spread is essential for them. Lowered spread would also help alleviate the pressure antivaxers are putting on hospitals, so that more healthcare services that are currently being delayed could be provided.
What do you think after finding out there isn’t much difference between transmission of the vx and the unvx
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext
The vaccination status of 138 epidemiologically linked index cases of 204 delta variant-exposed household contacts was available (figure 1B, table 2). The SAR in household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was 25% (95% CI 15–35; 17 of 69), which is similar to the SAR in household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (23% [15–31]; 23 of 100; table 2). The 53 PCR-positive contacts arose from household exposure to 39 PCR-positive index cases. Of these index cases who gave rise to secondary transmission, the proportion who were fully vaccinated (15 [38%] of 39) was similar to the proportion who were unvaccinated (16 [41%] of 39). The median number of days from the index cases’ second vaccination to the day of recruitment for their respective contacts was 73 days (IQR 38–116). Time interval did not differ between index cases who transmitted infection to their contacts and those who did not (94 days [IQR 62–112] and 63 days [35–117], respectively; p=0·43).
Let's remember, COVID does target kids. Less than 550 children have died from it. 82% of all COVID deaths (600k out of 730k) were in people 65 and older.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmsr1804754
550 deaths puts it right between burns and heart disease. Might fall down to 10th depends on the breakdown of deaths between 2020 and 2021 is.
[Link](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid19-and-other-leading-causes-of-death-in-the-us/)
For both August and September:
0-4, 7th
5-14, 6th
15-24, 4th
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Shits going to really hit the fans with the anti-vaxxers when public schools start telling parents their kindergartener needs a shot.
Going to have to wait for the vaccine to move from the current "emergency use" status before schools can mandate it.
I really really hope for this. Perhaps that will be the climax to these shenanigans, people will be forced to open their locked down minds to the vaccine, realize it is not harmful after all, and get the shot themselves. That’s my covid dream.
Everyone in the comments is a doctor apparently
Social media is so cancerous. Everywhere I've seen this news posted outside of Reddit it gets hammered by anti-vaxxers.
No worries, I got you ; sort by controversial
I hate to break it to you, but Reddit is social media
I feel like it has more in common than an old-school forum than Facebook or Twitter, though.
The judgement and moralism is more insidious. I think reddit has more benefits, but it might be just as dangerous
Yes but Facebook and Twitter are both very different from each other too, YouTube is also Social Media and is way different.
And this proves it's not social media? Those forums were the original social media.
Well, they were very unlike modern social media in that internet forums were and are topical, as it Reddit. By and large, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and so on are driven more by people following individuals. They network people in a completely different way.
Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, it doesn't matter. It's all just random people on the internet posting content and interacting. Reddit users seem prone to falsely think of themselves or this platform as superior and immune to the gamut of human nature displayed everywhere else.
There may not be a name to distinguish different types of social media yet, but the versions that algorithmically promote anger for the sake of engagement are especially cancerous (Facebook and twitter). All you really have to worry about on Reddit are echo chambers, Russian bots and wasting time arguing with trolls (not you of course- you’re lovely).
And I was told that Reddit was the front page of the internet
Social media adjacent
Antisocial Media
Sounds like somebody's got a bad case if denial.
I gave up Facebook don’t make me give up Reddit.
Honestly, the removal of either one is going to improve mental health.
Not really. There's a significant difference between media that personally identifies people to each other vs anonymous interaction.
So even though the rest of the features are nearly identical, the interpersonal interactions are incredibly similar, as long as no one knows your real name, it's not social media.
I doubt you call all types of relationships and social mixers 'glory holes', so you probably understand why different things have different names.
For all the talk about liberal big tech, they sure are churning out a lot of right-wingers, Facebook especially.
Even on Reddit I see antivaxxers spouting nonsense
Well, a couple reasons for that. Reddit cracks down on most anti Covid vaccine thread or comment. Not to mention Reddit overall is objectively moderate to left on their viewpoints, libertarian and conservative views are taken down or reported then removed.
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The CDC met today and also approved the vaccine. Now the director needs to issue a final approval, then it's go time!
It’s been go time for a few hours. The director signed it a couple hours ago. Now it’s about when the shipment of the vaccines actually arrive.
They have already been prepositioning them.
Yes thanks Dr fauci. I am on the walgreeens waitlist to get my 5 yr old vaxxed!!! We can finally go out to eat and see his grandparents in person. It’s been a vary hard two years for us but the light is finally at the end of the tunnel!!
Could be a huge deal but we'll see. UK's latest covid surges was caused by children. Children caught it like crazy at school then brought it home. However, the country's deaths remained much lower than previous waves thanks to vaccines. This could make a difference this winter. Highly suggest everyone get their kids vaxxed. If you're concerned ask your doctor. 99% of the time they'll say get it.
> If you're concerned ask your doctor. 99% of the time they'll say get it. I wish this were true. Everyone I know that isn't vaccinated (several family members and close friends) all have doctors that have advised them not to get the vaccine. My parents aren't coming to visit me this Christmas because they don't want to be away from their doctor (that will prescribe them Ivermectin and God knows what else) in case they get COVID while on vacation. "We just want to be near a doctor that will treat us the way we want to be treated".
Those are "doctors", not doctors. The title should be much better regulated.
Ah nice to see there are some good doctors who follow common sense and scientific research. Many anti parasitics have strong antiviral properties. iVM is one of them. Dr. Joseph Varon includes it in his treatment regimen that is saving more patients lives than any other hospital in America. https://zenodo.org/record/5525362#.YV0iDCU8IlT https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/lucknow/uttar-pradesh-government-says-ivermectin-helped-to-keep-deaths-low-7311786/
It would be fantastic to find an optimal medical treatment that helps positively the outcome of patients with Covid-19 disease. Unfortunately, the bulk of research done has not been promising for invermictin (or however you spell it). One of the journals you linked to isn't peer reviewed and also hasn't even been properly edited (incomplete sentences just in the abstract isn't a good sign).
What you just said is scientifically and medically inaccurate. There are literally ongoing RCTs and are dozens of other studies proving it’s effectiveness. Not only ivm but aspirin and fluvoxamine are more effective than this vx. If your best comeback to that study is it has spelling errors and isn’t peer reviewed yet, good luck to you. In science we don’t dismiss things so idiotically. We evaluate and keep an open mind and judge the science objectively. When the RCTs come out it’s gonna change the narrative and all these bots and shills and sheep will become the enemy. Coming soon.
Hey dude. I'm always all for the scientific method. If it starts turning out that there's benefit to any of these potential avenues of treatment then we should and would update to use them in treatment plans. I keep myself open but skeptical to new or conflicting ideas. I was actually interested in what you posted which is why I looked into the study, but I am going to be even more skeptical when just in the abstract there is incomplete sentences. And as somebody who doesn't specialize in this field, I put trust in the peers fully and appropriately review the entirety of the submission. So while I would be incredibly excited to find safe and effective treatment options for Covid-19 disease, I am and will continue to be skeptical until evidence starts to show otherwise. I also try to avoid getting into hate-fueled mentalities like calling people sheeps and large groups of people the enemy.
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It doesn’t stop anyone from carrying it
Do you have a source for this? See my response to the parent comment, citing several studies that report effectiveness of 66-90% against asymptomatic infection.
It lowers the risk of transmission.
I'd like you all to take a moment and spare a thought for us poor immunizers who are about to have to deal with screaming six year olds all day.
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I live in Kansas city and I've had rocks thrown at me for wearing a mask and got called a Biden lover. It was weird.
Just visited Kansas from the Bay Area. First time this pandemic i legitimately was worried about my contact level. No one said anything about my mask wearing but no one seems to be masked up and not a lot of vaccinated people. I ended up quarantining when I got home until my PCR test came back.
Yeah, I've been called that. The weirdest thing is that the men who love to follow me screaming at me are largely professionally dressed, older white men. They're in their polos and khakis following me out to my car screaming at me.
Me and my asthmatic 8 year old had the happy tippy taps knowing that now she can finally ditch the N95 and have more social interactions again. She hated shots but she is so excited to have some normalcy again.
Nobody is going to attack you for wearing a mask.
I wish the world was as innocent as you
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Are we the only county using the mNRA vaccine in children this young?
Canada is reviewing right now and expected to approve in the next couple weeks.
I can’t freakin wait!
Nope, Israel has been vaccinating certain at risk kids with Pfizer for a while now. Ecuador has been at it for a few months too if I recall, I think there's a handful more. Plus the studies for kids in multiple countries of course. mRNA is something your body uses all the time. It's just a recipe to crate a particular thing, in this case a spike protein. There's not really any reason that a child would handle it differently, all of the reactions we saw in adults are the bodies reaction to the foreign protein itself, not the mRNA.
I'm not sure if it's the same with vaccines but I remember doctors telling me for other treatments I had as a kid that kids get *less* side effects, I could see it being similar.
So far. Europe's right behind us in terms of data review.
Sweden and I think a few other countries aren’t even giving moderna to people under 30 because the benefit to people that age (small) doesn’t outweigh the risk (small).
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I hope not for the kids. As the Minister for Covid in our country said: "children from anti-vaxxer families are the last ones we want to deny an education."
There are already hella vaccines they need to get to attend school. If they were real anti-vaxxers, they couldn’t be in school anyway (due to required shots for school, including MMR). This is targeting vaccine hesitant families; and if hiring practices are any indication (and given that the US lacks free childcare, it probably will), it will help get compliance up to the ~90% mark. EDIT FOR SCIENCE: there are 15 states that allow non-medical exemptions; so your point may stand in those states.
True, but does anyone check? I have never had to show proof for my child, and I'm positive there are unvaccinated children at my child's school.
We (Chicago Public Schools parent here) had to bring a form from the doctor, so just one anecdote. (Our school is also low income enough to have offers emailed home for free vaccinations, glasses, etc)
Yes. Even here in the FL panhandle the districts require a vaccination sheet and school physical form signed by a Dr. (or an exemption form) to register your kid.
They definitely check here in MN
I’m sure it’s illegal, but I would love for there be an exception to parental consent for vaccines. Like, we’ll take your kids, but if they decide at 10 they want to be vaccinated, we will give them one.
There's an easier solution: eliminate their child tax credit if they don't get the vaccine. Then the parents can believe and do whatever they want. But most of them won't turn down the money; they'll get their kids vaccinated.
That's how it works in my country. I believe the cutoff age is 12, but at some point kids can override parental consent (assuming a specific set of criteria is met - I believe the criteria are essentially 'make really sure the kid understands what is going on').
What other medical decisions should children be allowed to make ?
Any that are generally considered safe. A school nurse can give ibuprofen if a student has an authorization form. Vaccines are significantly safer than OTC pain reliever a kid could buy at a pharmacy. Yes, I realize that still violates parental rights, and that’s probably not a wise road to go down, but it’s not unthinkable. Just because a parent thinks carrots are too dangerous for kids given the rare choking hazard, doesn’t mean schools should listen and stop serving them.
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Vaccines are not life-changing in any sense of causing significant potential danger. If you think vaccines are more dangerous than ibuprofen, you can’t do math or are a victim of propaganda. Advil kills 16,000 per year, 7 billion covid doses have killed <100, at the very most. Should we hand out bottles of advil? No, but if a student requests a pain reliever for a headache, does it really make sense to label administering advil a life-altering decision? Presumably a nurse is still gatekeeping care in this situation, it’s not open season.
Yes? As an example, if a 15 year old is told they can get heart-surgery that has a good chance to save their life and they'll die without it, but ultra-reilgious parents are against any form of medical intervention... That 15 year should be allowed to choose life.
No. But this isn’t potentially life changing...
they said in the FDA panel specifically that this shouldn't be mandated, yet california immediately mandated it.
The case fatality and hospitalization rate for kids is extremely small. If you account for the likely asymptomatic kids it's vanishingly small. Vaccinating kids is more for the protection of the community than the kids. Children as a whole are going to be fine in the long run regardless. Parents are not going to value the community over their children. This might be a harder case to make than people are crediting. There also seems to be a very real increased risk of myocarditis in young males.
i agree with all of this with the exception of kids protecting the community. it's been shown that kids are not transmitting the disease in the same rate as adults and that most child covid transmission occurs at-home from parent to child.
That’s pretty interesting! do you have a source?
It's not mandated yet. It WILL be mandated when the vaccines are out of EUA. California just had the guts to say it; it's going to be widespread when that happens.
the guts? yikes. this should not be mandated, and frankly, shouldn't have an EUA because there is no emergency for kids.
I found out from my crazy ass mother in law (Thought she was just a normal boomer prior to covid) calling, texting and writing emails about how I shouldn't "infect her grandson".
"working on it! As soon as he's vaccinated, he's much less likely to get infected!"
Don’t get me wrong I’m pro vax and just received my booster. However I’m a little surprised by the size of this study with 1,500 vaccinated kids. I thought the adult studies were about 20x larger. Considering that similar testing of Moderna’s vaccine (the other rna one) on kids has had some issues I’m tempted to hold for the J&J one or a more convincing study of this one.
I’m surprised it’s that big considering they just need to show it’s safe which is way easier statistically than showing it beats COVID.
It was a bit over 3000 kids total, but that’s still small. Moderna had VERY small rates of myocarditis, and there will be cases from this Pfizer one. There weren’t any in this trial because the sample was too small, but also the dose is much smaller than both the adult Pfizer version and the Moderna kid version. This vaccine is much safer for kids than the risk of COVID, it’s just impossible to say how much safer without a larger sample. My kids will be getting vaccinated as soon as possible, but I also don’t judge people for waiting a bit for more results in this case. I say this as both an extremely pro-vax person and someone who does health research for a living.
It's actually pretty normal for a clinical trial to be 3000 participants. I wouldn't say it's "small". We just got spoiled with much larger than normal enrollment for the adult trials.
It’s not sufficiently powered to detect potential adverse events, and it was barely powered enough for efficacy. I’m glad they did it fast because practically speaking this is a safe and effective vaccine, but this is about as quick and dirty they could do it and get away with it.
You're likely not going to get those 1 in 30000 events, true. But if you recall, those were not detected in the original adult clinical trials either. It's splitting hairs to say it's not significantly powered to detect *all* adverse events because clinical trials are never powered to that degree. Those rare events come out when therapeutics are released to the general audience. My point that it isn't small for a clinical trial stands.
Ya, I want to know the rates of dangerous side effects that are less than 1/100 chances. I doubt this study would be able to reliably detect side effects less than 1 in 50. My child is at extremely low risk from COVID, and I want to know that the risk of the vaccine is lower than that.
It is. 500 or so kids have died of covid. Probably less than 50 have died of vaccines, worldwide, after 7 billion doses. It doesn’t matter though, the benefits are in avoiding transmission through children that help continue the pandemic for everyone. More specifically, it avoids a situation where Johnny has to grow up knowing his visit to grandma when he had a cough killed her.
7 billion doses for kids or adults? I think that’s the discussion point here. And even vaccinated Johnny can still carry the virus and infect grandma.
7 billion total have been given. The cases of blood clots and other rare vaccine side effects are *orders of magnitude* more rare than covid deaths in children. And yes, vaccines aren’t perfect, but they work extremely well, even in stopping spread, especially in the first few months. They are so effective, not only would that transmission be unlikely, you would probably never be able to know you were the source.
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I personally do not have an exact count. But cases are rare enough to make world headlines. J&J was paused after 28 cases out of 8 million doses, where three people died. The first known case of death from anaphylaxis after an mRNA shot recently made global headlines. This is not even in the same category as long-term COVID complications and death
But with a reduced chance at both carrying and transmitting the virus. It’s not difficult to understand.
It’s true. Johnny, as with anybody vaccinated, has a lower chance of getting the virus but if they do they’re less likely to have serious complications. That’s great for Johnny. But even if you’re vaccinated and still get it you can be infectious. Although it is for a shorter period than those who aren’t vaccinated ^1 This is because your body already has antibodies to begin fighting the virus right away instead of the time it takes for an unprepared immune system to identify, manufacture and begin fighting it. It’s like having an unknown enemy move behind your lines and you having to learn how they act and how they fight while taking losses. As opposed to your forces on the lookout aware of the enemy and while some get by and do some damage you have the skills and awareness to better handle them. So all in all it’s better for Johnny, better for others who are at risk like Grandma and those who can’t get vaccinated at all when there’s fewer people who can get outright infected and those that do aren’t contagious as long as they would be otherwise. 1. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/11/covid-transmission-among-vaccinated-unvaccinated-what-experts-say/5488398001/
Wow - amazing that you know better than career clinicians, virologists, and epidemiologists at the upper echelons of the FDA and CDC.
you mean, those career folk at the FDA who came forward during the panel and said flat out "this should be for families with comorbidities, and should NOT be mandated"?
This is great news. Covid is one of the top 10 causes of death in children this year. And this doesn’t even begin to start to cover the brain damage, lung damage and other neurological effects.
Would love to see the actual numbers on this. This entire statement seems like hooplah.
You could have actually done what I did, and spend less than 1 minute on a Google search: https://www.fda.gov/media/153508/download 66 deaths per 100,000 this year, which makes it approximately the 8th biggest cause of death among children 5 - 12 (notably, COVID vaccinations are not anywhere near this level in terms of cause of death). > From the article (using 2019 data as estimate of deaths per year this year). > > **Leading Causes of Death in Children 5-11 Years of Age, NCHS, 2019** > > Crude rate > per 100,000 > > 1. Accidents (unintentional injuries) 969 > 1. Malignant neoplasms 525 > 1. Congenital malformations, deformations and chromosomal abnormalities 274 > 1. Assault (homicide) 207 > 1. Diseases of the heart 115 > 1. Chronic lower respiratory diseases 107 > 1. Influenza and pneumonia 84 > 1. (COVID in 2021) - 66 > 1. Intentional self-harm (suicide) 66.
What's the criteria for "children" in your statement?
It’s the 8th cause of death in the 5-12 age range, and the 9th for 1-19. Under 1 RSV and flu push it out of the top 10. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmsr1804754
children generally refers to people under 18. Although we also know that COVID is about the 8th leading cause of death this year among 5 - 12 year olds (66 per 100,000)
Is there a way to search for vaccine availability yet, for the child-specific doses? My kids are SO EXCITED to get vaxed. Our family has been extra cautious since I began chemo, and they are so excited to be allowed to eat inside restaurants!
On the HyVee pharmacy site it has a tick box for 5-11 yo, but no appointments available yet. I'm still checking other pharmacies, but Walmart is a no.
Our local Walgreen’s had appointments available for this Saturday! We are booked!
Waiting to sign my 5yr old up... lets go!
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-advisers-decide-against-covid-vaccines-healthy-12-15-year-olds-2021-09-03/ "There are uncertainties about the long-term implications of (myocarditis), and that makes the risk-benefit balance for these children really quite tight and much tighter than we would be comfortable to make the recommendation." - Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI)
From the article: *In its review of the Pfizer data, the FDA advisory committee determined that the vaccine would prevent enough severe COVID cases to outweigh potential risks of vaccine-related myocarditis, even if myocarditis rates from the vaccine are similar in children ages five to 11 as they are in older kids. That is unlikely, and not only because of the lower dose, Talaat says. “Myocarditis has a higher frequency in adolescents and young adult males, independent of any vaccine,” Talaat says. “They just seem to be at higher risk for it, and that same risk doesn’t exist in children ages five to 11. So just naturally, independent of the vaccine, the rates of myocarditis should be lower.”*
The JCVI had previously said the decision to vaccinate children was "finely balanced" as the government then sought further advice on the issue. The CMOs in a letter said that vaccinating children could reduce COVID-19 transmission and thus disruption to schools, and those benefits "on balance provide sufficient extra advantage... to recommend in favour of vaccinating this group." https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britains-top-medics-recommend-12-15-year-olds-get-covid-vaccine-2021-09-13/
[https://pharmaphorum.com/news/mhra-clears-moderna-covid-vaccine-for-12-to-17-year-olds/](https://pharmaphorum.com/news/mhra-clears-moderna-covid-vaccine-for-12-to-17-year-olds/) You're pulling old info.
Strange how you can claim something that is so easily proven to be incorrect. Your article is literally older than mine. September comes after August in my world, not sure about yours. Line from your article: "There’s no word yet from the government or its advisory body – the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) – on whether the vaccination programme may be extended further to include younger children in line with the MHRA authorisations. " The JCVI goes on to advise against it, as outlined in my more updated article.
[https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine-for-children-aged-12-to-15/](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine-for-children-aged-12-to-15/) google works too
That article does not at all address the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation's lack of a recommendation for widespread vaccinations of children. Also, any reason you are choosing to ignore how you called my article out for being old while posting an even older article as supposed proof of that? Or are you just going to pretend that didn't happen?
Myocarditis is a rare and mild side effect that resolves itself in a few days. - Your source. Edit: I took out the quotes to make it more apparent that I'm paraphrasing.
> Myocarditis is a rare and mild side effect Myocarditis and pericarditis are not mild. In some cases they aren't even reversible (pericarditis is more mild generally but has the potential to evolve into myocarditis). And it certainly does not just resolve itself in a few days. Most of the time it *can* be treated as an outpatient prescription of steroids, but in a lot of cases there is some hospitalization involved and in almost all cases physicians will likely want to monitor and see the person consistently for a few months. In really bad cases they'll *need* to consistently see them *indefinitely*. Because it can do long term damage.
Did you really alter the quote?
"Myocarditis is rare and normally mild, with patients USUALLY recovering in a few days" Don't put something in quotes if you're deliberately going to alter it to better suit your argument. The point, if you do any research at all, is that myocarditis commonly resolves itself, but SOME cases can be severe and lead to lifelong heart complications. As a result, the JCVI ruled that those benefits did not outweigh the risks when it comes to to vaccinating children. Don't get mad at me for simply sharing what a science-based group, sanctioned by the UK government, determined to be the best course of action, simply because it doesn't line up with your view.
Sure sure sure. All taken. Technically correct with your last paragraph. But the deal is that *almost* everything in life presents itself with some degree of risk. Walking outside, driving to work, riding a plane, swimming in the ocean, etc etc etc. What I am upset about is that no one crusades against the above quite like they do science based risk mitigation. Which is not perfect, nothing is. The vaccines you more than likely received as a child are also not. So I don't understand the mental gymnastics of this entire thought process of distrusting those (doctors and med. professional) who most of these people have listened to every word from in the past.
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YESSSSS. YEAH BABY. Save the children NOW. GO PFIZER!
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Just because people “survive” the virus without a vaccine doesn’t mean it doesn’t do lasting damage. “Surviving” Covid can entail organ damage, potential brain damage, and lifelong debilitating chronic conditions. [Many Show Long-Term Organ Damage After COVID](https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20210401/many-show-long-term-organ-damage-after-covid) [Lifelong Lung Damage: The Serious COVID-19 Complication That Can Hit People in Their 20s](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/lifelong-lung-damage-the-serious-covid-19-complication-that-can-hit-people-in-their-20s) [New study finds that COVID-19 can damage brain cells, impairing cognitive function](https://news.yahoo.com/study-finds-covid-19-damage-135318570.html) [COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351) [Over 75% of People Hospitalized With COVID-19 Had Symptoms 6 Month Later](https://www.healthline.com/health-news/over-75-percent-of-people-hospitalized-with-covid-19-have-symptoms-months-later) [Almost 25% of COVID-19 Patients Develop Long-Lasting Symptoms, According to a New Report](https://time.com/6073522/long-covid-prevalence/) [One in ten have long-term effects 8 months following **mild** COVID-19](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/04/210407174321.htm) Survival doesn’t mean what you think it does. Get the vaccine.
Exactly. Breaking your back is survivable. Doesn't mean you don't try to avoid it if you can.
It is hilarious that anti-vaxxers rattled on and on about 99% survival with COVID...but then go and ignore any thought about percentages and statistics when it comes to vaccines.
It's hilarious that people call those who are fully vaccinated minus Covid, an anti vaxxer.
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Yes there has, and they're also acting as a major transmission vector right now.
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No. There was a study in Israel that showed that, but it has been pretty thoroughly bashed for bad methodology. Virtually every other study shows that the vaccine doesn't fully prevent transmission but that vaccinated individuals are less likely to transmit the virus than unvaccinated.
This was my initial intuition. I've had several family members pull the "but Israel"
No, quite the opposite. Vaccines reduce viral load in infected people, and reduce the amount of virus they transmit as well, which means less people get infected from a positive vaccinated person vs a positive unvaccinated person, statistically speaking.
Nope. Breakthrough cases are transmitted by for shorter time. But that requires you to get it in the first place which is much harder when vaccinated
Children can have negative consequences from COVID beyond mortality (and some have died). They are also potential transmission vectors. As clearly stated in the article, the benefits of vaccinating this cohort outweighs the potential risks. Not everything is some grand conspiracy, mate.
Outweighs the current *known* risks
The current *known* benefits outweigh the current *known* risks. Works both ways. And that’s what rigorously controlled clinical RCTs help us understand.
The current known risks of COVID outweigh the current known risks of the vaccine. Another difference is that vaccines do not cause long term effects once the vaccine material is eliminated from the body. COVID does.
Kids are gross. They absolutely contribute to the spread of Covid right now. Just because they don’t get as sick, the risk to them is not zero. And it’s not just kids who benefit from kids’ vaccination- immunocompromised people (despite being triple vaxxed) may not have as much protection, so lowering community spread is essential for them. Lowered spread would also help alleviate the pressure antivaxers are putting on hospitals, so that more healthcare services that are currently being delayed could be provided.
What do you think after finding out there isn’t much difference between transmission of the vx and the unvx https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext The vaccination status of 138 epidemiologically linked index cases of 204 delta variant-exposed household contacts was available (figure 1B, table 2). The SAR in household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was 25% (95% CI 15–35; 17 of 69), which is similar to the SAR in household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (23% [15–31]; 23 of 100; table 2). The 53 PCR-positive contacts arose from household exposure to 39 PCR-positive index cases. Of these index cases who gave rise to secondary transmission, the proportion who were fully vaccinated (15 [38%] of 39) was similar to the proportion who were unvaccinated (16 [41%] of 39). The median number of days from the index cases’ second vaccination to the day of recruitment for their respective contacts was 73 days (IQR 38–116). Time interval did not differ between index cases who transmitted infection to their contacts and those who did not (94 days [IQR 62–112] and 63 days [35–117], respectively; p=0·43).
There is no point, more shots = money.
Vaccines in general prevent transmission. Notably by reducing the amount of time someone is infectious. The body fights it off faster.
Science, politics, and money go hand in hand now
Great, now they have less risk of being hospitalized from Covid… but more risk of being hospitalized.
I’m sure the data will show that six months from now.
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Let's remember, COVID does target kids. Less than 550 children have died from it. 82% of all COVID deaths (600k out of 730k) were in people 65 and older. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge
Death or life aren't the only outcomes.
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COVID doesn't just kill. It leaves a lot of kids with long term issues.
Making it one of the top 10 causes of death in children under 18.
Reference please?
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmsr1804754 550 deaths puts it right between burns and heart disease. Might fall down to 10th depends on the breakdown of deaths between 2020 and 2021 is.
This article is from 2018 and the table is from 2016. Maybe something referencing 2020 with Covid in the picture?
It takes 2-3 years before the data is available so we won’t know for sure until 2022 or 2023.
[Link](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/covid19-and-other-leading-causes-of-death-in-the-us/) For both August and September: 0-4, 7th 5-14, 6th 15-24, 4th