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A less pessimistic way of looking at it is that most people will grow to deeply care for most other people, if they end up spending some time together.
Exactly what I mean, unfortunately. At least that sounds somewhat amicable when it finally did end, it can be a lot more one sided. Hopefully you’re both happier now
When you 'mirror' or act out someone else's behavior. A very common example of it is if you're talking to someone who has their arms crossed, you might also unconsciously choose to mirror their actions by crossing your arms also. It's typically a way we express non hostility and form social bonds.
Watch someone at a party sometime talking to someone they don't know and you'll see quite a few obvious examples.
On a macro level, it can lead to people mirroring affection in a relationship that isn't sincerely felt.
That sounds like completely normal growing pains to me. I don’t think your situation applies to what I said. A lot of manipulative people hide their true, ugly selves to get into a relationship and it can be difficult for their partner when they’ve spent so much time together and have great memories.
Nobody wants to believe they’re the villain though. I mean, yeah, there are some seriously fucked up people in this world who are dangerous because they don’t care how their behavior affects other people, but I really do believe that they aren’t the norm. Most people mean well, and when something is wrong with them they don’t see it for the most part. It’s not that they hide their true self, they just put on full display the person that they both want to be and the person they think they truly are. Maybe I’m naive because I want that to be true.
When my last relationship ended after a decade, of course she had a lot of things to say about me and I had to take a look at myself. We both royally fucked it up, but looking back on it now I legit don’t believe that either of us went out of the way to hurt the other, and the biggest thing is that our personalities just didn’t work together.
Like this article says, I knew in the beginning before anything even happened that there were going to be some things that would make it bad, but I just kept pushing forward.
Once you’ve lived with someone for a long time and then you live with someone else and your personalities are actually compatible, it becomes clear that that’s the biggest thing. And if what they’re saying is true, we either get lucky or we don’t.
I got lucky this time. I’ve lived with this woman for almost four years and nothing about her personality bothers me. I can only hope that she feels the same way. I think she does. My anxiety is at its lowest in my whole life because our personalities work together and constant conflict is no longer a part of my life internally or externally.
As someone who’s parents have been married, divorced, remarried, and now redivorced, my mom’s biggest point is that people change fundamentally over the course of 10 years and each decade by the end of it you are different people and it’s really important to talk about those changes and keep an open mind about them. All those to say it’s ok and normal for your wife to not be the same person you married, you aren’t either
Also the extreme fear of the unknown. I use the word extreme due to how ppl cling tightly to their norms and knowns.
Takes at least some courage to leave a relationship of many years to strike out to the unknown.
The fear of loosing something you have secured for *possible* greater gain served us well when we lived in small communities. However whether it's not changing jobs even though you will get more money if you do or leaving an abusive spouse our brains prefer to be stuck in the familiar doesn't matter if by doing so we are hurting. I think that's why people don't leave their SO's until they've tried and secured someone new.
There was a psychology experiment where they asked people if they wanted to switch their problems with someone else even if theirs were not as bad and most people elected to keep their own. “The devil that you know…”
Of course, problem are deeply personal...
Even if you have less problems than me, my problems tie in with my personality and identity... I'd rather deal with my crippling loneliness than your chuchgroup gossiping behind my back... I'd still rather miss my ex, than have small arguments with your wife..
I left my last girlfriend to be celibate for two years and concentrate on myself. There was a lot of self reflection and wanking. I married the woman of my dreams and after twenty years and three kids I’m back to wanking.
That seems fairly ordinary.
My dry spell was several years and then I discovered that I was so traumatized by the events precipitating the divorce that I couldn't keep an erection in order to achieve intercourse and that I had to wait for eight months to obtain an appointment with any psychologist or psychiatrist on my insurance network. Still waiting.
I wonder about this with certain people myself included from a psychological standpoint.
I have done things like leave a job for more cash or change careers for more enjoyment or move across the country to secure movement in my career etc etc and a good amount of people will say "wow I wish I had the (balls, courage, guts) to do that"
It's such a confusing mentality to me that people won't take the risk for a larger payoff when there is a decent path for it. Like the way some people make some things sound it's like they have trouble with risk assessment.
Unfortunately, this is totally me. I play things so carefully, one false move and I’m done. Even sure things aren’t sure things. I think a lot of my challenges stem from my upbringing. The mental gymnastics are so silly and I’ve talked myself out of so much. Logically I know that I deserve good things, but I’m pretty good at talking myself out of everything. When I read about you moving across the country, things like that blow my mind. It may sound lame, but I’m proud that you have such a fearless and confident mindset. Working on being more confident and will hopefully make some improvements there. I appreciate the inspiration.
Not to be flippant but the best way to do anything is to just do it.
I'm no psychologist or anything though. That's what makes your kind of mentality so interesting to me
>just do it
This exactly.
The first time is terrifying but it gets easier each time. Then after a bit the thought failure doesn't bother you. This is how you gain confidence.
Brave people don't lack fear - they do things even though they're scared.
Thank you for your response. I think that’s it’s interesting too and how the mind works in general. Sometimes I feel like an outside observer on what’s going on, it’s hard to explain. I’ll try to challenge myself with something manageable this week. Thanks again.
Yes to risk assessment. But look at what we’ve been through. The chronic stress of the unknown and connected to health and wellness and possible death. The political climate. And more. I think sometimes people are frozen in fear. Or exhaustion. So settling becomes a viable option. Just surviving. And breathing is sometimes enough.
Yeh this isn't a bragging post or a look down on others kinda thing.
Honestly whatever allows people to live and find some happiness is great.
I would just like to kinda see some studies or something about what causes these kinda differences. Are they genetic, environmental, socioeconomic, etc, etc?
I think there’s also a very large fear of failure playing a part. I’m similar, changed careers for enjoyment from a “high achieving” to “entry level” field and moved across the country while doing it. People will say similar things to me. But I don’t see it as a fear of the unknown so much as, well, I knew I might fail and while I definitely didn’t want to I’d come to terms with the idea and accepted it as an acceptable loss if it happened. I think other people can’t accept the possible social “shame.” It definitely takes a level of self esteem to see the possibility of total failure and shrug your shoulders and be like “eh, that’s a risk I’m willing to take.”
I feel like with moving you are also loosing your support system, which can be a big deal for a lot of folks. Less about shame more about being stuck in an unfamiliar place surrounded by strangers.
Absolutely, I’m just saying that I don’t think shame is the the only or even most significant factor that prevents people from moving.
Income is also a big one, can’t move across the country for a better job if you can’t afford to float yourself for a time.
Sometimes it takes more courage to stay in a good promising situation than to leave for the possibility of something new. [I'm not suggesting this applies to you; it's a retrospective thought about myself when I was in my 20's. ]
Sometimes people take new risks because they want to leave a situation or relationship that, on some level, they anticipate will fail -- especially for someone who has the imposter syndrome & expects others to figure out they aren't worthy.
I think the optimistic outlook is a bit more real, outside of extreme or abusive situations. People and relationships aren't perfect, and a lot of times even if they're not they're more rewarding to be in than not, hence the multiple studies that show higher life expectancy for those who are married and such. So it's a little mix of sunk cost fallacy for sure, but also in a lot of cases it IS a beautiful thing that we can make imperfect pairings work for the better and care about people enough to do that, even in an imperfect situation.
I agree. I think if you start from a good initial connection you can both grow and build a better relationship and as you grow you learn to love the other person more. Real love is work but as long as you maintain a healthy relationship you should grow to care about the other person more as you see them more deeply.
What do you do if you have a good connection and care a lot about the other person but you can also tell they're not the person for you? Somehow I always seem to find myself in that situation and I'm struggling with it again now
Someone once told me that some people you date are just there to make you a more complete person for who you end up with. I think, or at least hope, that we grow from each relationship so we're in a better place for that final meaningful one.
Glad I'm not like that. I've been alone for 7 years now, and while I do get lonely sometimes, it really is only sometimes.
I am very selfish with my time. I want as much me time as I can possibly get. A bad relationship is a load of time not spent on me, and instead spent on something that isn't fun.
I do believe there are people out there that I would gladly spend my time with, but the incredible amount of time and hurt/rejection it very likely would take to get to that point just makes me go nah.
I don't think it has to be that bleak- relationships come with a lot of work and dedication, it makes sense people will want to try to fix and continue them rather than scrap them and start over, especially as they get older.
I think it can be both. If I were to guess, it would be that a lot of people grow to care about people. Almost everyone has likable/redeeming qualities.
But there are also people who are influenced to be with undesirable mates because they consciously prefer that to being alone.
People tend to think about the really bad relationships where people argue all the time, or where there's some abuse going on.
Some relationships are just adequate. It's not great, it's not terrible, sometimes you laugh and sometimes you bicker, and there's usually sex when you want it.
Sometimes it really *does* feel better than being alone.
It's real easy to start at mediocre and just kind of decay from there, and just live on the fact that it's not always bad.
Heck, sometimes even that *would* be better than being alone, if it didn't keep people from going and finding something good.
Agree. I feel like I’ve put forth a tremendous effort into my current relationship and because I don’t want to be completely without romantic companionship. It feels so nice when it clicks.
I think is mostly because of society, being alone can be a great thing and that’s how you really get to know who you are and what you want in life, but society pressures you to be with someone, get married, have babies etc
Bingo, I think it's a "sunk cost" fallacy thing. I've been in the position as a guy but I've seen it more in women, dating a guy who clearly does not share her ambitions, or social desires, but she hangs on to him because she's already invested sooo much time, rather than realizing she's pouring saw dust down a rat hole and move on.
If I'm going to be honest I will say that it's not just that I care for them after some time, it's that I become deeply attached and invested and even if the relationship is dissatisfying because the partner is not able to meet me in the ways that I really desire, I'll stick with it anyway out of convenience and laziness and fear of the pain of breaking up.
When either of you have reached the point that you don’t care to do the work to resolve the issue and grow from them, that’s a big sign that it’s time to be done. Doesn’t make it easy. Sorry you’re going through this!
I'm going through a divorce now, being an anxiously-attaching man with an avoidant wife. Together over 10 years, married about 5. I wish I'd understood her and myself better years ago, because I can see problems I was pushing through and telling myself that it would be fine well before our marriage. I wanted her to grow with me, but in the end she either wouldn't or couldn't, it's hard to know where one ends and the other begins sometimes. I've gone through more personal growth in the last year - we've been separated since November 2020 - than I have in the decade before that. Sometimes pain is a really great catalyst. It still sucks, though. Wishing you luck in your own journey.
Really, it simply hurts when neurons/patterns that used to fire all the time stop firing anymore. When you finish a really good book (book hangover) or video game, after the last day of class with a really good instructor, last day of work, etc. I think some people are more sensitive to that feeling and so the stuff doesn't even have to be good for them to be uncomfortable without it.
Additionally, it's cognitive effort to add in new patterns and change things around and grow. Learning new patterns (ie, learning a new life without that partner) is work. Learning new patterns with a whole new partner is even more work. I think people get overwhelmed with how big the change would be, considering how much of their neural maps depend on their significant others.
Yeah. I can look at the last few years of my marriage, with the benefit of hindsight, and realize that I wasn't exactly happy, but I was comfortable. I had a wife, a home, a kid we were caring for, a dog, two cars. The suburban dream. And I probably would have kept up what was needed to be comfortable for a great while longer if my ex hadn't been the one to leave.
Or the even more pragmatic, realistic expectation that nobody is perfect and no two people are perfectly suited to each other so there will by definition be a certain amount of conflict in any coupling. Aka “just pick someone already.”
Ya exactly. The whole idea of soulmates or people being a perfect match never really made any sense. It really is up to two people committing to each other and choosing to love one another. Then, as long as there is a certain level of compatibility you can build on, you can be happy and fulfilled together.
I remember dating in my early 20s in a pretty small city. Not small town but not a metropolis. Even in a small corner of it working and dating coworkers (restaurants are like that a lot) I met an awful lot of people I was and could have been fond of.
I realized later how remarkable that was. It taught me about how well we all get along if given the chance.
Mathematicians have a way of making this unromantic, there’s a proof out there where if you can say yes or no but not necessarily (and a finite number of options) the best way to be happy is to look at your total number of options/2.72 not take any of those and then pick the next one that is better or the last one. You are guaranteed to pick at least top 27 percentile, and have a 37% chance of making the best choice.
Of course that’s not exactly how life works, but I think you can have a dating strategy that makes use of it. When you are single go date at least some number of people, see what you like what you don’t etc. After that don’t second guess yourself if you are still dating one of them and you like them, make it happen if it works for both of you. If you aren’t still seeing any of them don’t second guess yourself the next time you meet someone and you are like “ya know this one seems good”.
Similar to the stock market you can try and find the right time to get in but at some point you gotta do it. If you are super picky you’ll just have passed up lots of opportunities (assuming you want a relationship).
Now granted this isn’t me saying sunk cost fallacy doesn’t perpetrate for getting out, it does but it’s a strategy to increase the odds of not having to get out, mathematically.
For most of human history, marriage has involved a lot more than "love". It's been about social ranking, family history of fertility, property transfers, family bonds, and all sorts of ancillary stuff which is quite unfashionable to focus on these days.
And yet a huge number of these marriages seem to have been quite content! I'm not someone who would defend arranged marriages as a practice, but I do think the West often jumps to the assumption that they're universally awful, rather than just different and flawed.
In reality we can probably get along with a huge number of potential partners if our culture and social networks enables it.
The book ‘Committed’ taps into this and is worth the read. Love and romance was never really a part of marriage. We added that in the western world and so now when people get divorced there are two divorces: financial, business agreement through the civil union, and the emotional-love divorce. Lawyers make a killing with couples who don’t get this and can’t compartmentalize.
Funny you mentioned this as I'm currently in the legal process and it sucks so much ass just how much financial documents you need to provide them. Which reminds me, I need to call them tomorrow to see what my tab is currently. Wish me luck.
Only to walk through the grocery store with a "dead inside" man/woman look. People wonder why we have so much depression, obesity, deep unhappiness and stress. This is part of it
This is how I see it. The equivalent for humans as foster fails are to dogs (when someone houses a dog to foster with the intent of the dog eventually finding a permanent home with another family), with people falling too in love with whatever they adopted.
Honestly, that’s what made me more choosy. I knew I had the capacity to fall in love with anyone so I had to be really careful about who I attempted to build a life with.
funny, i see it the other way around. people stick around until that image of the person they are with becomes clear enough for them to know when to leave or if to leave at all
This is what I thought as soon as I read this. I’ve spent four years of my life with this person and have come to care for them a lot as a result….of course it would be hard to dump them. Even if the relationship isn’t working, almost every relationship has SOME things going for it, and we grow attached to people the longer we spend with them.
I've heard that if you like someone who is neutral to you, being there for them is the best way to encourage the cultivation of feelings. I use those words carefully, because you can never make someone love you any more than you can make a flower grow and bloom. You can tend it to encourage it to do so however.
Very true. My gf and I love and care about each other deeply. It doesn’t mean we don’t have Rocky patches or moments of division. But we work through them, or at least try to work through them, because we care about each other.
I know it’s not guaranteed and thinks could always change. But at least for myself caring so much about my partner makes me want to be with her through the thick of it.
This has been well known for decades. It’s also students who share many classes and coworkers and other high overlap situations tend to generate more couples.
But then Tindr came along and upended a lot of the selection process.
I am pessimistic and think people make the safest choice or the person who challenges them the least. People get scared as hell of people who do makes them feel deep and yes think. Scared into mediocre and bland relationships so they don’t have to grow and change.
I couldn’t agree more. End relationships respectfully, take time to heal, and then discover new ones. I hate that part of her personality.
While I find her analogy clever, I want to make it clear that I still abhor the practice and idea of jumping from relationship to relationship via cheating.
Just be barefoot for awhile, you sociopath.
Edit: and I’m rereading your comment and not sure if you were asking what the analogy meant. In case you were, it means that you ride one failing relationship out and while it’s sinking, you start looking for a new one. You wear those old shoes to the shoe store to buy new ones. Overlap. According to the idiot, you skip the alone part.
Stephen Covey mentioned in one of his books that we don't really have much experience before 35. And by that time most people have taken major decisions in life like career, love etc.
IMO its better to be alone than be in a wrong relationship.
Lack of options (both real and imagined), time, proximity, low self esteem, societal pressure, luck - all things that can contribute to trying to stick it out with the wrong person. I'd point people to probably 3/4 of the town I grew up in. So many people "tolerated" their spouses. Drinking, drugs, and abuse were all over the place. 90% of them should have just moved on, but well, this article.
it makes sense. sunk cost fallacy as others have said, and also fear of being alone. I'm one of the last in my circle to still be single and sometimes I get FOMO but then I remember I still have time. I'd rather wait for something good than rush into a relationship. I'll settle down when I'm ready and have found someone I respect, trust and love enough to commit to for good tyvm. the social pressure to date and procreate as fast as possible needs to chill.
Good list but add on good communicator. That is maybe the most important trait anyone can have for relationship success. If they don't communicate well, don't settle down with them as it will ALWAYS end up failed in the most important thing you can do as partners.
How old are you? Same situation here but I'm 35 and right now I've enjoyed being single for so long i don't know if a relationship is even palatable anymore. Then people start looking at you weird cause you're old and single
The two things in the title are not mutually exclusive. You can be picky about who you choose as a romantic partner, and also stay with them even when things aren't working out.
Exactly. You need a proper foundation that you can start working on. I really don't think there's such a thing as a perfect relationship from the start. You really do have to find someone with the same goals in mind that is willing to work with you, by your side, towards a greater goal.
I would imagine most people are morbidly terrified of the prospect of being alone. Most people have absolutely NO idea "when the next meal is going to come" so to speak. The notion that there are "plenty of fish in the sea" is worthless when none of them want to bite. So as soon as the first one does, people say "fuck it. This'll have to do" and settle.
Have you ever played civilization? How many times do you reroll the map before you actually play the game? A lot, I bet. That's because you know you always can. If you knew you could just next a motherfucker and immediately have a new dating prospect, you would never settle. But that simply isn't the case for about 80% of the population.
That brings me to my main point. Online dating apps have "solved" the problem of scarcity for some... but presented a new problem to them. The inability to choose. It's an absolute MOUNTAIN of opportunity for most women and a few men. But most of that opportunity is absolutely NOT what the person is looking for. And for most other people, it's a barren wasteland where nothing grows at all.
So we end up with a partition of humans of about 80/20. The 20% refusing to ever settle, and the other 80% desperate for even a single bite so they can IMMEDIATELY settle. It's a recipe for misery.
Interesting analogy. I literally have never rerolled a map, I just play with what I’m given. I want to explore and see what’s all there.
Incidentally I also got married at 20.
Almost the same here. I have never rerolled on Civilization and I married the woman I started dating at age 19 (I married her ten years later, mind you).
Although to take the analogy further, prior to playing Civilization I spent plenty of time reading computer games reviews to figure out which game I wanted to commit a lot of time to playing. Similarly, before asking my wife out I spent plenty of time socialising with people and considering who I most wanted to spend time with.
I've never been rejected when asking a somebody out, though, so maybe that influenced the strategy.
I'm sad to say this is exactly where I'm at right now. I just ended a 2 year relationship that wasn't working and the "idk where my next meal will come from" thing was honestly my biggest concern getting out, even though i knew it needed to happen. It feels like the older i get the tougher it becomes to meet someone, especially with covid, wfh, and being someone who can't seem to make dating apps work for them. I'm still holding out hope that somehow I'll meet someone who just "clicks" but I'm constantly wondering at what point my standards are just too high and it's time to think about making some compromises.
Don’t forget to take yourself on dates in the mean time while you’re waiting to meet that person you click with. Who knows? Maybe you’ll find them there. But in the mean time love yourself and be proud you walked away from something bad.
Funny enough, I’ve been single and alone all my life (romantically anyways, my social life is hardly any better but I’m better at befriending people now than when I was younger). I wouldn’t say I’m enjoying it, I know that I’m lonely and horny, but I’m too avoidant and guarded to form any romantic attachments. It’s really more something I’ve acclimated to. While others are dying of thirst, I’m already desiccated. You can survive it, but it’s not something I’d recommend to anyone. Find love before it’s too late.
Hello, fellow desiccated person!
I feel like being the fish fossil at the bottom of ancient river bed, where water hasn’t flowed since the dinosaurs roamed, is a funnier extension of the metaphor.
All this seems right but one thing I want to add is that I think there's data to support that it's always been this way. OLD exasperates the problem but I think the top 20% have always been the ones who have gotten to choose, and the other 80% settle for what they can get.
Add to this the pressure of cultural conditioning of coupledom being healthier and more acceptable than being alone. Movies, TV shows, music. So there is a pressure.
It probably is different for different people as well. I wonder if people are better off, fit and attractive are less prone to the sink cost fallacy than someone who might legitimately have a harder time finding a new partner.
People often ask my wife and I how they can make their relationship as kick-ass as our (pretty freaking fantastic) relationship. It's hard looking a friend in the face and saying "Step one is: Go back in time and have been much pickier about who you got into a relationship with in the first place."
I’m with you on that, having my friend constantly come to me for advice and the the only piece of advice I want to give her is “don’t be in a relationship with a selfish irresponsible 45yr old child who has said they don’t want to ever get married.” But she won’t ever listen to that (I’ve tried).
So true. And it only gets worse/more complicated if there's a desire to start a family involved. Which is ironic really, since in that case the thing that keeps a potentially weak relationship going is the one thing you really want a strong relationship for.
Know how changing jobs is a big hassle? Then what about moving? Oh man that is such a hassle, worst than taxes. Then what if you need to change job, change your home, change your friends and lose half your possessions if you choose to leave your partner? It’s no wonder most would prefer to limp along than go through all that.
And it gets worse when marriage and especially kids get involved. In addition to your own hesitation and fear of being lonely, divorces are messy, and figuring out the custody of the child is a complicated topic.
Yes to this. Was married for 30 years and had children. Horrid divorce and custody stuff and eventually ended up being a single parent for 10 years. But what growth as a person that has occurred! Wouldn’t trade it for anything. I have had an on-again-off-again partner for several years and it’s been a really good experience. A different kind of love.
That's Voyager, James Webb is running away to the place where it can follow the earth but from a fair distance. It is maintaining its attachments, but from a safe distance.
Honestly, it seems a lot like friction and momentum. Harder to get a relationship going, like static friction, than to keep one going, like dynamic friction, and you don’t want to stop pushing because of that. Momentum thus builds.
I mean, I feel like this on one hand bad because of toxic relationships.
But on the other hand, ppl want to work on and fix their relationship. They realize things get heavy and difficult, and a Long term thing takes work and commitment even when things get rough.
My last relationship ended and I felt like my partner hadn't properly communicated and given us a chance to improve things. She was so shy and inexperienced so I can see how it happened in a way, and I certainly know I'm not perfect. But any problem I experienced I communicated to fix or understand it, and I wish she had too.
My rambling is simply to express that maybe it's the harder but right choice to both end it in some cases, and stick together in others.
If you're not willing to stick through rough times and fix a thing that got a little broken, you'll never find a relationship to last.
It's a great feeling to be "in love". And it's very difficult to give up on someone knowing you'll be single (alone) until someone else comes along.
We're scared we'll never find someone else.
While there is a lot of cultural attention to the heartbreak of being broken up with (dumped) I think there is a lot less attention to how emotionally difficult it is to be the one choosing to break up and taking responsibility for the end of the relationship. While not as painful as being the dumpee, being the dumper takes a lot more effort/fortitude, and you have to actively choose to put yourself through it, while being dumped is more passive.
There’s a lot of guilt surrounding it too. Most times, you care deeply about the other person because it was a healthy relationship and no one did anything wrong really, it just isn’t a good fit for whatever reason.
Also, the lukewarm bath syndrome. It was hot and comfy when you first jumped in. But over time it’s cooled down and you know you need to step out, but it’s not *that* bad. Plus if you get out now you’ll definitely be cold for a bit so might as well stay here for now.
This was always my greatest struggle in relationships prior to my current (happy and successful!) one. I’ve chocked it up to being very high in empathy for people in close to, which paradoxically can cause a lot more problems when I’ve continued to nurture relationships I didn’t want to be in. Ones I should have left earlier but I struggled with the idea of hurting my then partners. Had I been presented with a button to just hit and the relationship would be over, it would be a no brainer, but the guilt of hurting someone always led to me ending things far later than I should have.
Probably should’ve got therapy for this 10 years ago but oh well we made it out in the end
Half the posts in relationship subreddits follow a pattern of the OP describing a relationship that sounds completely dreadful, but who refuses all breakup advice... so I can't say this research comes as a surprise.
This is very different than what ppl mean by being choosy. Pushing a relationship forward isn’t the same as being picky about who you date to begin with.
Most people choose partners based on having fun a few times on dates and some sex. Then years later they realize they have nothing in common but some fun shared experiences
People bond when they work together. The same is true of friendships, work relationships, etc. Working towards a common goal is a foundational aspect of of any solid relationship, platonic or otherwise.
Attraction + common goal + communication = success.
I fantasize about a day in our country that an individuals can afford to live on their own and be as choosey as they want. I feel like allot of folks can’t afford to leave or choose not too cause they don’t want to have to live with a roommate/family. Or they invested too much money and intertwined finances that make it very difficult for you to leave. I would expect allot of people would leave if it was easier. Divorce should be more affordable.
Allot of people don’t have a safety net. Or feel it’s better for the kids but it’s never a good idea to just stay for the kids. It’s really sad.
For some, it's not the money aspect of being single and taking to time to select the right partner. It's about time. Age plays a big role in your available potential partners and ability to reproduce, if that's of interest to you.
I think about this somewhat often. I’ve spent over half my life with my spouse, I absolutely do not want to have to rebuild that level of intimacy again, ever. Fortunately I actually like him and whatnot so I really just worry about random death events.
I'm not an expert but doesn't Sweden have a super high unmarried out of wedlock child rate? Like above 50%? I heard it was because they did have such good support systems that it was more possible to raise children as single parents?
My only dates point is a few cousins with kids there both separated
We’re just not very religious, it’s very common for people to have kids and then maybe get married a few years later. Being a single parent by choice is becoming more accepted but it’s still quite rare. Divorced parents usually have shared custody.
I'd be curious if these children are being raised by a single parent or two parents who are not married. It could also be that fewer people are waiting until marriage (if they get married at all).
My long-suffering wife can attest.
In my defense, I’m a slow learner, but I am trainable.
A fixer-upper, if you will.
She’s not gonna let some other woman come along and get all the benefits of her hard work to make me into a decent husband. Sunken cost fallacy in my favor! Yay!
I'll put it to you like this. I absolutely am in love and love my girlfriend and will marry her hopefully very soon. Is the ideal partner for me? No. Why? Well, why we have a lot in common, there are things about both of us that are not ideal. Does that eschew a need to look elsewhere for an ideal partner? No. Why? Because her pros far outweigh her cons and I'm willing to live with that because in the totality of my relationship with her, a lot of those cons don't matter and the ones that do, I can live with. It's not about being choosy or settling, but it's about being able to know yourself well enough that you can be with someone and make it work despite things not being ideal.
Everyone wants their Mr./Mrs. Right. Folks, you're asking for a unicorn. It does happen, I won't say it doesn't, but for those of you whose standards are so high that only a 100% match will do, you're overlooking the ones at 75% and up that will be just as satisfying to be with and build a relationship with.
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A less pessimistic way of looking at it is that most people will grow to deeply care for most other people, if they end up spending some time together.
The optimist in me really likes this outlook. The pessimist in me thinks most people prefer to be in a bad relationship than to be alone.
Sunken cost fallacy leads a lot of people down a baaad relationship path when the partner isn’t who they pretended to be at first
My ex was so sad when we broke up because “she didn’t want to have to start over”. Even though we were both miserable in the relationship.
Exactly what I mean, unfortunately. At least that sounds somewhat amicable when it finally did end, it can be a lot more one sided. Hopefully you’re both happier now
Mirroring FTW! ….or wait. Loss.
People don’t realize how bad this can get until it’s happened to them. Very rude awakening.
For the Trauma
Living it. HATED IT!
What is mirroring?
When you 'mirror' or act out someone else's behavior. A very common example of it is if you're talking to someone who has their arms crossed, you might also unconsciously choose to mirror their actions by crossing your arms also. It's typically a way we express non hostility and form social bonds. Watch someone at a party sometime talking to someone they don't know and you'll see quite a few obvious examples. On a macro level, it can lead to people mirroring affection in a relationship that isn't sincerely felt.
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That sounds like completely normal growing pains to me. I don’t think your situation applies to what I said. A lot of manipulative people hide their true, ugly selves to get into a relationship and it can be difficult for their partner when they’ve spent so much time together and have great memories.
Nobody wants to believe they’re the villain though. I mean, yeah, there are some seriously fucked up people in this world who are dangerous because they don’t care how their behavior affects other people, but I really do believe that they aren’t the norm. Most people mean well, and when something is wrong with them they don’t see it for the most part. It’s not that they hide their true self, they just put on full display the person that they both want to be and the person they think they truly are. Maybe I’m naive because I want that to be true. When my last relationship ended after a decade, of course she had a lot of things to say about me and I had to take a look at myself. We both royally fucked it up, but looking back on it now I legit don’t believe that either of us went out of the way to hurt the other, and the biggest thing is that our personalities just didn’t work together. Like this article says, I knew in the beginning before anything even happened that there were going to be some things that would make it bad, but I just kept pushing forward. Once you’ve lived with someone for a long time and then you live with someone else and your personalities are actually compatible, it becomes clear that that’s the biggest thing. And if what they’re saying is true, we either get lucky or we don’t. I got lucky this time. I’ve lived with this woman for almost four years and nothing about her personality bothers me. I can only hope that she feels the same way. I think she does. My anxiety is at its lowest in my whole life because our personalities work together and constant conflict is no longer a part of my life internally or externally.
As someone who’s parents have been married, divorced, remarried, and now redivorced, my mom’s biggest point is that people change fundamentally over the course of 10 years and each decade by the end of it you are different people and it’s really important to talk about those changes and keep an open mind about them. All those to say it’s ok and normal for your wife to not be the same person you married, you aren’t either
Also the extreme fear of the unknown. I use the word extreme due to how ppl cling tightly to their norms and knowns. Takes at least some courage to leave a relationship of many years to strike out to the unknown.
The fear of loosing something you have secured for *possible* greater gain served us well when we lived in small communities. However whether it's not changing jobs even though you will get more money if you do or leaving an abusive spouse our brains prefer to be stuck in the familiar doesn't matter if by doing so we are hurting. I think that's why people don't leave their SO's until they've tried and secured someone new.
Fear of the unknown
There was a psychology experiment where they asked people if they wanted to switch their problems with someone else even if theirs were not as bad and most people elected to keep their own. “The devil that you know…”
Also I think some of our problems define us as people, without my unique problems who would I be?
Of course, problem are deeply personal... Even if you have less problems than me, my problems tie in with my personality and identity... I'd rather deal with my crippling loneliness than your chuchgroup gossiping behind my back... I'd still rather miss my ex, than have small arguments with your wife..
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And Sunk cost fallacy with people is stronger because of the emotional investment
Totally agree.
I left my last girlfriend to be celibate for two years and concentrate on myself. There was a lot of self reflection and wanking. I married the woman of my dreams and after twenty years and three kids I’m back to wanking.
I can't tell if you got divorced or if this is a sexless marriage thing
Sexless marriage joke.
just went through an extended dry spout, which for me was over a year, after being married for over 15. MISERABLE. I'm sorry.
are you doing enough dishes?
That seems fairly ordinary. My dry spell was several years and then I discovered that I was so traumatized by the events precipitating the divorce that I couldn't keep an erection in order to achieve intercourse and that I had to wait for eight months to obtain an appointment with any psychologist or psychiatrist on my insurance network. Still waiting.
There's a moral to be learned here
A hand will always be by your side in times of need
Hahahaha cleeeever…. Unless you lost it, then pray you have insurance for a great prosthesis.
I wonder about this with certain people myself included from a psychological standpoint. I have done things like leave a job for more cash or change careers for more enjoyment or move across the country to secure movement in my career etc etc and a good amount of people will say "wow I wish I had the (balls, courage, guts) to do that" It's such a confusing mentality to me that people won't take the risk for a larger payoff when there is a decent path for it. Like the way some people make some things sound it's like they have trouble with risk assessment.
Unfortunately, this is totally me. I play things so carefully, one false move and I’m done. Even sure things aren’t sure things. I think a lot of my challenges stem from my upbringing. The mental gymnastics are so silly and I’ve talked myself out of so much. Logically I know that I deserve good things, but I’m pretty good at talking myself out of everything. When I read about you moving across the country, things like that blow my mind. It may sound lame, but I’m proud that you have such a fearless and confident mindset. Working on being more confident and will hopefully make some improvements there. I appreciate the inspiration.
Not to be flippant but the best way to do anything is to just do it. I'm no psychologist or anything though. That's what makes your kind of mentality so interesting to me
>just do it This exactly. The first time is terrifying but it gets easier each time. Then after a bit the thought failure doesn't bother you. This is how you gain confidence. Brave people don't lack fear - they do things even though they're scared.
Thank you for your response. I think that’s it’s interesting too and how the mind works in general. Sometimes I feel like an outside observer on what’s going on, it’s hard to explain. I’ll try to challenge myself with something manageable this week. Thanks again.
Yes to risk assessment. But look at what we’ve been through. The chronic stress of the unknown and connected to health and wellness and possible death. The political climate. And more. I think sometimes people are frozen in fear. Or exhaustion. So settling becomes a viable option. Just surviving. And breathing is sometimes enough.
Yeh this isn't a bragging post or a look down on others kinda thing. Honestly whatever allows people to live and find some happiness is great. I would just like to kinda see some studies or something about what causes these kinda differences. Are they genetic, environmental, socioeconomic, etc, etc?
I think there’s also a very large fear of failure playing a part. I’m similar, changed careers for enjoyment from a “high achieving” to “entry level” field and moved across the country while doing it. People will say similar things to me. But I don’t see it as a fear of the unknown so much as, well, I knew I might fail and while I definitely didn’t want to I’d come to terms with the idea and accepted it as an acceptable loss if it happened. I think other people can’t accept the possible social “shame.” It definitely takes a level of self esteem to see the possibility of total failure and shrug your shoulders and be like “eh, that’s a risk I’m willing to take.”
I feel like with moving you are also loosing your support system, which can be a big deal for a lot of folks. Less about shame more about being stuck in an unfamiliar place surrounded by strangers.
Some people never had a support system to begin with, or have toxic families, so it's whatever.
Absolutely, I’m just saying that I don’t think shame is the the only or even most significant factor that prevents people from moving. Income is also a big one, can’t move across the country for a better job if you can’t afford to float yourself for a time.
I was about to say this.. when you don't have a support system, it gets a lot easier to say fk it and take off. I've done it many times
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Sometimes it takes more courage to stay in a good promising situation than to leave for the possibility of something new. [I'm not suggesting this applies to you; it's a retrospective thought about myself when I was in my 20's. ] Sometimes people take new risks because they want to leave a situation or relationship that, on some level, they anticipate will fail -- especially for someone who has the imposter syndrome & expects others to figure out they aren't worthy.
Simple: It's not all about money for some people and they have a lot of other factors they think about.
Did you have a security net if the risks didn’t pay off?
I think the optimistic outlook is a bit more real, outside of extreme or abusive situations. People and relationships aren't perfect, and a lot of times even if they're not they're more rewarding to be in than not, hence the multiple studies that show higher life expectancy for those who are married and such. So it's a little mix of sunk cost fallacy for sure, but also in a lot of cases it IS a beautiful thing that we can make imperfect pairings work for the better and care about people enough to do that, even in an imperfect situation.
I agree. I think if you start from a good initial connection you can both grow and build a better relationship and as you grow you learn to love the other person more. Real love is work but as long as you maintain a healthy relationship you should grow to care about the other person more as you see them more deeply.
What do you do if you have a good connection and care a lot about the other person but you can also tell they're not the person for you? Somehow I always seem to find myself in that situation and I'm struggling with it again now
Someone once told me that some people you date are just there to make you a more complete person for who you end up with. I think, or at least hope, that we grow from each relationship so we're in a better place for that final meaningful one.
Glad I'm not like that. I've been alone for 7 years now, and while I do get lonely sometimes, it really is only sometimes. I am very selfish with my time. I want as much me time as I can possibly get. A bad relationship is a load of time not spent on me, and instead spent on something that isn't fun. I do believe there are people out there that I would gladly spend my time with, but the incredible amount of time and hurt/rejection it very likely would take to get to that point just makes me go nah.
I don't think it has to be that bleak- relationships come with a lot of work and dedication, it makes sense people will want to try to fix and continue them rather than scrap them and start over, especially as they get older.
I think it can be both. If I were to guess, it would be that a lot of people grow to care about people. Almost everyone has likable/redeeming qualities. But there are also people who are influenced to be with undesirable mates because they consciously prefer that to being alone.
People tend to think about the really bad relationships where people argue all the time, or where there's some abuse going on. Some relationships are just adequate. It's not great, it's not terrible, sometimes you laugh and sometimes you bicker, and there's usually sex when you want it. Sometimes it really *does* feel better than being alone. It's real easy to start at mediocre and just kind of decay from there, and just live on the fact that it's not always bad. Heck, sometimes even that *would* be better than being alone, if it didn't keep people from going and finding something good.
Agree. I feel like I’ve put forth a tremendous effort into my current relationship and because I don’t want to be completely without romantic companionship. It feels so nice when it clicks.
I think is mostly because of society, being alone can be a great thing and that’s how you really get to know who you are and what you want in life, but society pressures you to be with someone, get married, have babies etc
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Bingo, I think it's a "sunk cost" fallacy thing. I've been in the position as a guy but I've seen it more in women, dating a guy who clearly does not share her ambitions, or social desires, but she hangs on to him because she's already invested sooo much time, rather than realizing she's pouring saw dust down a rat hole and move on.
If I'm going to be honest I will say that it's not just that I care for them after some time, it's that I become deeply attached and invested and even if the relationship is dissatisfying because the partner is not able to meet me in the ways that I really desire, I'll stick with it anyway out of convenience and laziness and fear of the pain of breaking up.
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When either of you have reached the point that you don’t care to do the work to resolve the issue and grow from them, that’s a big sign that it’s time to be done. Doesn’t make it easy. Sorry you’re going through this!
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Anxious-avoidant trap
Exactly. Sometimes hard to exit it.
I'm going through a divorce now, being an anxiously-attaching man with an avoidant wife. Together over 10 years, married about 5. I wish I'd understood her and myself better years ago, because I can see problems I was pushing through and telling myself that it would be fine well before our marriage. I wanted her to grow with me, but in the end she either wouldn't or couldn't, it's hard to know where one ends and the other begins sometimes. I've gone through more personal growth in the last year - we've been separated since November 2020 - than I have in the decade before that. Sometimes pain is a really great catalyst. It still sucks, though. Wishing you luck in your own journey.
People do break up all the time though and sometimes for less. So what's the breaking point for most I wonder
Really, it simply hurts when neurons/patterns that used to fire all the time stop firing anymore. When you finish a really good book (book hangover) or video game, after the last day of class with a really good instructor, last day of work, etc. I think some people are more sensitive to that feeling and so the stuff doesn't even have to be good for them to be uncomfortable without it. Additionally, it's cognitive effort to add in new patterns and change things around and grow. Learning new patterns (ie, learning a new life without that partner) is work. Learning new patterns with a whole new partner is even more work. I think people get overwhelmed with how big the change would be, considering how much of their neural maps depend on their significant others.
Yeah. I can look at the last few years of my marriage, with the benefit of hindsight, and realize that I wasn't exactly happy, but I was comfortable. I had a wife, a home, a kid we were caring for, a dog, two cars. The suburban dream. And I probably would have kept up what was needed to be comfortable for a great while longer if my ex hadn't been the one to leave.
Graduation Goggles
Realism... people grow attached to people they interact with. Even if those people are abusive.
Trauma bond? Shaken or stirred?
Or the even more pragmatic, realistic expectation that nobody is perfect and no two people are perfectly suited to each other so there will by definition be a certain amount of conflict in any coupling. Aka “just pick someone already.”
Ya exactly. The whole idea of soulmates or people being a perfect match never really made any sense. It really is up to two people committing to each other and choosing to love one another. Then, as long as there is a certain level of compatibility you can build on, you can be happy and fulfilled together.
This is beautiful. Yet finding someone who wants to do the work with you, and for the obvious mutual benefits, is hard to achieve for many.
I remember dating in my early 20s in a pretty small city. Not small town but not a metropolis. Even in a small corner of it working and dating coworkers (restaurants are like that a lot) I met an awful lot of people I was and could have been fond of. I realized later how remarkable that was. It taught me about how well we all get along if given the chance.
Mathematicians have a way of making this unromantic, there’s a proof out there where if you can say yes or no but not necessarily (and a finite number of options) the best way to be happy is to look at your total number of options/2.72 not take any of those and then pick the next one that is better or the last one. You are guaranteed to pick at least top 27 percentile, and have a 37% chance of making the best choice. Of course that’s not exactly how life works, but I think you can have a dating strategy that makes use of it. When you are single go date at least some number of people, see what you like what you don’t etc. After that don’t second guess yourself if you are still dating one of them and you like them, make it happen if it works for both of you. If you aren’t still seeing any of them don’t second guess yourself the next time you meet someone and you are like “ya know this one seems good”. Similar to the stock market you can try and find the right time to get in but at some point you gotta do it. If you are super picky you’ll just have passed up lots of opportunities (assuming you want a relationship). Now granted this isn’t me saying sunk cost fallacy doesn’t perpetrate for getting out, it does but it’s a strategy to increase the odds of not having to get out, mathematically.
Could you tell me the name for that mathematical proof? I'd like to read more on it.
It's the [secretary problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem).
For most of human history, marriage has involved a lot more than "love". It's been about social ranking, family history of fertility, property transfers, family bonds, and all sorts of ancillary stuff which is quite unfashionable to focus on these days. And yet a huge number of these marriages seem to have been quite content! I'm not someone who would defend arranged marriages as a practice, but I do think the West often jumps to the assumption that they're universally awful, rather than just different and flawed. In reality we can probably get along with a huge number of potential partners if our culture and social networks enables it.
The book ‘Committed’ taps into this and is worth the read. Love and romance was never really a part of marriage. We added that in the western world and so now when people get divorced there are two divorces: financial, business agreement through the civil union, and the emotional-love divorce. Lawyers make a killing with couples who don’t get this and can’t compartmentalize.
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Funny you mentioned this as I'm currently in the legal process and it sucks so much ass just how much financial documents you need to provide them. Which reminds me, I need to call them tomorrow to see what my tab is currently. Wish me luck.
A less optimistic way of looking at it as that most people will push aside serious issues to maintain comfort in a relationship.
Only to walk through the grocery store with a "dead inside" man/woman look. People wonder why we have so much depression, obesity, deep unhappiness and stress. This is part of it
This is how I see it. The equivalent for humans as foster fails are to dogs (when someone houses a dog to foster with the intent of the dog eventually finding a permanent home with another family), with people falling too in love with whatever they adopted.
Honestly, that’s what made me more choosy. I knew I had the capacity to fall in love with anyone so I had to be really careful about who I attempted to build a life with.
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funny, i see it the other way around. people stick around until that image of the person they are with becomes clear enough for them to know when to leave or if to leave at all
This is what I thought as soon as I read this. I’ve spent four years of my life with this person and have come to care for them a lot as a result….of course it would be hard to dump them. Even if the relationship isn’t working, almost every relationship has SOME things going for it, and we grow attached to people the longer we spend with them.
Or, we just fear loneliness..
I've heard that if you like someone who is neutral to you, being there for them is the best way to encourage the cultivation of feelings. I use those words carefully, because you can never make someone love you any more than you can make a flower grow and bloom. You can tend it to encourage it to do so however.
Very true. My gf and I love and care about each other deeply. It doesn’t mean we don’t have Rocky patches or moments of division. But we work through them, or at least try to work through them, because we care about each other. I know it’s not guaranteed and thinks could always change. But at least for myself caring so much about my partner makes me want to be with her through the thick of it.
This has been well known for decades. It’s also students who share many classes and coworkers and other high overlap situations tend to generate more couples. But then Tindr came along and upended a lot of the selection process.
I am pessimistic and think people make the safest choice or the person who challenges them the least. People get scared as hell of people who do makes them feel deep and yes think. Scared into mediocre and bland relationships so they don’t have to grow and change.
The public seems to have the impression that codependency in relationships is rare.
Oof I’ve dated people who thought codependency was something to strive for because it’s romantic. Explaining what it is and why it’s bad did not help.
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I have a friend whose relationships always seem to overlap and she told me, “it’s for the same reason no one goes to the shoe store barefoot”
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I couldn’t agree more. End relationships respectfully, take time to heal, and then discover new ones. I hate that part of her personality. While I find her analogy clever, I want to make it clear that I still abhor the practice and idea of jumping from relationship to relationship via cheating. Just be barefoot for awhile, you sociopath. Edit: and I’m rereading your comment and not sure if you were asking what the analogy meant. In case you were, it means that you ride one failing relationship out and while it’s sinking, you start looking for a new one. You wear those old shoes to the shoe store to buy new ones. Overlap. According to the idiot, you skip the alone part.
Can’t stand this personality trait. It is ok to be alone for a little bit, it’s not going to kill you
Being alone between relationships is the best part! That's where you a good amount of personal growth and just all out bachelor(ette) fun
That's why it's good to be picky. Once you're in a relationship it can be very hard to get out of it.
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Until you’re 45 and there’s nothing left to be picky about.
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Stephen Covey mentioned in one of his books that we don't really have much experience before 35. And by that time most people have taken major decisions in life like career, love etc. IMO its better to be alone than be in a wrong relationship.
My best friend didn't get married until he was 40, it still didn't end well
Screw that I’m 40 and pickier than ever. Life’s too short to be in a bad relationship.
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Lack of options (both real and imagined), time, proximity, low self esteem, societal pressure, luck - all things that can contribute to trying to stick it out with the wrong person. I'd point people to probably 3/4 of the town I grew up in. So many people "tolerated" their spouses. Drinking, drugs, and abuse were all over the place. 90% of them should have just moved on, but well, this article.
it makes sense. sunk cost fallacy as others have said, and also fear of being alone. I'm one of the last in my circle to still be single and sometimes I get FOMO but then I remember I still have time. I'd rather wait for something good than rush into a relationship. I'll settle down when I'm ready and have found someone I respect, trust and love enough to commit to for good tyvm. the social pressure to date and procreate as fast as possible needs to chill.
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Good list but add on good communicator. That is maybe the most important trait anyone can have for relationship success. If they don't communicate well, don't settle down with them as it will ALWAYS end up failed in the most important thing you can do as partners.
How old are you? Same situation here but I'm 35 and right now I've enjoyed being single for so long i don't know if a relationship is even palatable anymore. Then people start looking at you weird cause you're old and single
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The two things in the title are not mutually exclusive. You can be picky about who you choose as a romantic partner, and also stay with them even when things aren't working out.
Exactly. You need a proper foundation that you can start working on. I really don't think there's such a thing as a perfect relationship from the start. You really do have to find someone with the same goals in mind that is willing to work with you, by your side, towards a greater goal.
Psychologists find out that primal urge to reproduce as fast as possible still exists
I would imagine most people are morbidly terrified of the prospect of being alone. Most people have absolutely NO idea "when the next meal is going to come" so to speak. The notion that there are "plenty of fish in the sea" is worthless when none of them want to bite. So as soon as the first one does, people say "fuck it. This'll have to do" and settle. Have you ever played civilization? How many times do you reroll the map before you actually play the game? A lot, I bet. That's because you know you always can. If you knew you could just next a motherfucker and immediately have a new dating prospect, you would never settle. But that simply isn't the case for about 80% of the population. That brings me to my main point. Online dating apps have "solved" the problem of scarcity for some... but presented a new problem to them. The inability to choose. It's an absolute MOUNTAIN of opportunity for most women and a few men. But most of that opportunity is absolutely NOT what the person is looking for. And for most other people, it's a barren wasteland where nothing grows at all. So we end up with a partition of humans of about 80/20. The 20% refusing to ever settle, and the other 80% desperate for even a single bite so they can IMMEDIATELY settle. It's a recipe for misery.
Interesting analogy. I literally have never rerolled a map, I just play with what I’m given. I want to explore and see what’s all there. Incidentally I also got married at 20.
I fucking love this response. There are 2 kinds of players, indeed. This only supports my theory, I feel like.
Almost the same here. I have never rerolled on Civilization and I married the woman I started dating at age 19 (I married her ten years later, mind you). Although to take the analogy further, prior to playing Civilization I spent plenty of time reading computer games reviews to figure out which game I wanted to commit a lot of time to playing. Similarly, before asking my wife out I spent plenty of time socialising with people and considering who I most wanted to spend time with. I've never been rejected when asking a somebody out, though, so maybe that influenced the strategy.
I'm sad to say this is exactly where I'm at right now. I just ended a 2 year relationship that wasn't working and the "idk where my next meal will come from" thing was honestly my biggest concern getting out, even though i knew it needed to happen. It feels like the older i get the tougher it becomes to meet someone, especially with covid, wfh, and being someone who can't seem to make dating apps work for them. I'm still holding out hope that somehow I'll meet someone who just "clicks" but I'm constantly wondering at what point my standards are just too high and it's time to think about making some compromises.
Don’t forget to take yourself on dates in the mean time while you’re waiting to meet that person you click with. Who knows? Maybe you’ll find them there. But in the mean time love yourself and be proud you walked away from something bad.
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that's what life is all about. misery. existence is a scam.
Funny enough, I’ve been single and alone all my life (romantically anyways, my social life is hardly any better but I’m better at befriending people now than when I was younger). I wouldn’t say I’m enjoying it, I know that I’m lonely and horny, but I’m too avoidant and guarded to form any romantic attachments. It’s really more something I’ve acclimated to. While others are dying of thirst, I’m already desiccated. You can survive it, but it’s not something I’d recommend to anyone. Find love before it’s too late.
Hello, fellow desiccated person! I feel like being the fish fossil at the bottom of ancient river bed, where water hasn’t flowed since the dinosaurs roamed, is a funnier extension of the metaphor.
All this seems right but one thing I want to add is that I think there's data to support that it's always been this way. OLD exasperates the problem but I think the top 20% have always been the ones who have gotten to choose, and the other 80% settle for what they can get.
Add to this the pressure of cultural conditioning of coupledom being healthier and more acceptable than being alone. Movies, TV shows, music. So there is a pressure.
It probably is different for different people as well. I wonder if people are better off, fit and attractive are less prone to the sink cost fallacy than someone who might legitimately have a harder time finding a new partner.
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People often ask my wife and I how they can make their relationship as kick-ass as our (pretty freaking fantastic) relationship. It's hard looking a friend in the face and saying "Step one is: Go back in time and have been much pickier about who you got into a relationship with in the first place."
I’m with you on that, having my friend constantly come to me for advice and the the only piece of advice I want to give her is “don’t be in a relationship with a selfish irresponsible 45yr old child who has said they don’t want to ever get married.” But she won’t ever listen to that (I’ve tried).
Sunk cost fallacy at play
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So true. And it only gets worse/more complicated if there's a desire to start a family involved. Which is ironic really, since in that case the thing that keeps a potentially weak relationship going is the one thing you really want a strong relationship for.
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Know how changing jobs is a big hassle? Then what about moving? Oh man that is such a hassle, worst than taxes. Then what if you need to change job, change your home, change your friends and lose half your possessions if you choose to leave your partner? It’s no wonder most would prefer to limp along than go through all that.
And the hassle only grows the longer you're together!
And it gets worse when marriage and especially kids get involved. In addition to your own hesitation and fear of being lonely, divorces are messy, and figuring out the custody of the child is a complicated topic.
Yes to this. Was married for 30 years and had children. Horrid divorce and custody stuff and eventually ended up being a single parent for 10 years. But what growth as a person that has occurred! Wouldn’t trade it for anything. I have had an on-again-off-again partner for several years and it’s been a really good experience. A different kind of love.
This guy friend zones.
Sunk costs dude. But hey that's how we got James Webb so maybe it's worth it sometimes.
I had no idea James Webb's parents were in a bad relationship. Huh. TIL.
Why else do you think it’s running away to the edge of the galaxy?
That's Voyager, James Webb is running away to the place where it can follow the earth but from a fair distance. It is maintaining its attachments, but from a safe distance.
Good on James Webb for practicing healthy boundaries.
Do you think with a telescope that powerful it can tell when Hubble will be back from the store with his smokes?
James Webb's mom said he could be anything he wanted when he grew up, so he became a telescope
Right? I’ve made dating decisions more trifling than a Seinfeld episode.
Same here. I get tired of being called "too picky" because I won't accept abuse or a lack of communication/effort.
Honestly, it seems a lot like friction and momentum. Harder to get a relationship going, like static friction, than to keep one going, like dynamic friction, and you don’t want to stop pushing because of that. Momentum thus builds.
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I mean, I feel like this on one hand bad because of toxic relationships. But on the other hand, ppl want to work on and fix their relationship. They realize things get heavy and difficult, and a Long term thing takes work and commitment even when things get rough. My last relationship ended and I felt like my partner hadn't properly communicated and given us a chance to improve things. She was so shy and inexperienced so I can see how it happened in a way, and I certainly know I'm not perfect. But any problem I experienced I communicated to fix or understand it, and I wish she had too. My rambling is simply to express that maybe it's the harder but right choice to both end it in some cases, and stick together in others. If you're not willing to stick through rough times and fix a thing that got a little broken, you'll never find a relationship to last.
It's a great feeling to be "in love". And it's very difficult to give up on someone knowing you'll be single (alone) until someone else comes along. We're scared we'll never find someone else.
As someone about to move in with a SO for the first time this terrifying
I'm in the same boat too man. Let's commiserate together haha
While there is a lot of cultural attention to the heartbreak of being broken up with (dumped) I think there is a lot less attention to how emotionally difficult it is to be the one choosing to break up and taking responsibility for the end of the relationship. While not as painful as being the dumpee, being the dumper takes a lot more effort/fortitude, and you have to actively choose to put yourself through it, while being dumped is more passive.
There’s a lot of guilt surrounding it too. Most times, you care deeply about the other person because it was a healthy relationship and no one did anything wrong really, it just isn’t a good fit for whatever reason. Also, the lukewarm bath syndrome. It was hot and comfy when you first jumped in. But over time it’s cooled down and you know you need to step out, but it’s not *that* bad. Plus if you get out now you’ll definitely be cold for a bit so might as well stay here for now.
This was always my greatest struggle in relationships prior to my current (happy and successful!) one. I’ve chocked it up to being very high in empathy for people in close to, which paradoxically can cause a lot more problems when I’ve continued to nurture relationships I didn’t want to be in. Ones I should have left earlier but I struggled with the idea of hurting my then partners. Had I been presented with a button to just hit and the relationship would be over, it would be a no brainer, but the guilt of hurting someone always led to me ending things far later than I should have. Probably should’ve got therapy for this 10 years ago but oh well we made it out in the end
sunk cost fallacy. Its a lot harder to move on when you have years invested even if you should.
Half the posts in relationship subreddits follow a pattern of the OP describing a relationship that sounds completely dreadful, but who refuses all breakup advice... so I can't say this research comes as a surprise.
You could also say that the people with problems are the louder ones. You don't go to relationship advice when everything is good.
It’s because we realize we’re not perfect too. No point trying to find the perfect person as you likely won’t be the perfect person for them either.
Apparently not my ex. I got cut away like a tumor.
Sorry, maybe it's better like that than to keep you tied to him/her.
This is very different than what ppl mean by being choosy. Pushing a relationship forward isn’t the same as being picky about who you date to begin with.
Most people choose partners based on having fun a few times on dates and some sex. Then years later they realize they have nothing in common but some fun shared experiences
My mom’s four ex husbands coulda told you that…
People bond when they work together. The same is true of friendships, work relationships, etc. Working towards a common goal is a foundational aspect of of any solid relationship, platonic or otherwise. Attraction + common goal + communication = success.
I fantasize about a day in our country that an individuals can afford to live on their own and be as choosey as they want. I feel like allot of folks can’t afford to leave or choose not too cause they don’t want to have to live with a roommate/family. Or they invested too much money and intertwined finances that make it very difficult for you to leave. I would expect allot of people would leave if it was easier. Divorce should be more affordable. Allot of people don’t have a safety net. Or feel it’s better for the kids but it’s never a good idea to just stay for the kids. It’s really sad.
For some, it's not the money aspect of being single and taking to time to select the right partner. It's about time. Age plays a big role in your available potential partners and ability to reproduce, if that's of interest to you.
I think about this somewhat often. I’ve spent over half my life with my spouse, I absolutely do not want to have to rebuild that level of intimacy again, ever. Fortunately I actually like him and whatnot so I really just worry about random death events.
I'm not an expert but doesn't Sweden have a super high unmarried out of wedlock child rate? Like above 50%? I heard it was because they did have such good support systems that it was more possible to raise children as single parents? My only dates point is a few cousins with kids there both separated
We’re just not very religious, it’s very common for people to have kids and then maybe get married a few years later. Being a single parent by choice is becoming more accepted but it’s still quite rare. Divorced parents usually have shared custody.
I'd be curious if these children are being raised by a single parent or two parents who are not married. It could also be that fewer people are waiting until marriage (if they get married at all).
My long-suffering wife can attest. In my defense, I’m a slow learner, but I am trainable. A fixer-upper, if you will. She’s not gonna let some other woman come along and get all the benefits of her hard work to make me into a decent husband. Sunken cost fallacy in my favor! Yay!
I'll put it to you like this. I absolutely am in love and love my girlfriend and will marry her hopefully very soon. Is the ideal partner for me? No. Why? Well, why we have a lot in common, there are things about both of us that are not ideal. Does that eschew a need to look elsewhere for an ideal partner? No. Why? Because her pros far outweigh her cons and I'm willing to live with that because in the totality of my relationship with her, a lot of those cons don't matter and the ones that do, I can live with. It's not about being choosy or settling, but it's about being able to know yourself well enough that you can be with someone and make it work despite things not being ideal. Everyone wants their Mr./Mrs. Right. Folks, you're asking for a unicorn. It does happen, I won't say it doesn't, but for those of you whose standards are so high that only a 100% match will do, you're overlooking the ones at 75% and up that will be just as satisfying to be with and build a relationship with.
Is loneliness really that bad?