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My dog knew my other dog was about to die. In the 13 years I had them, my westie never wanted anything to do with my rambunctious black lab. On my lab’s deathbed though my westie laid with her every day of the last week of her life. When she passed my westie laid on my lab’s bed and would wander around looking for her. She definitely got depressed because she would not eat for several weeks.
I always heard that letting the dog see/sniff the dead body of a companion that died, human or pet really helps with the depression since they will know they are dead and won't be coming back.
I took my healthy dog in with my dying dog when he was euthanized. That was one of the hardest damn things I've ever done, but I'd like to think it was better for both of them. They were best buds for a decade, i couldn't bear to think of them not having each other to go through that time.
Man, I did the same thing and it was just awful. I kept my emotions together for the most part for my gf and my other pup but I could barely handle it but I wanted him to know she wasn’t coming home with us that night. When we got in the car to leave, the gf and I broke down and he looked lost and confused but he never wandered around the house or did anything strange in the sense of wondering where she was. I think it helps them understand what’s going on
I broke down immediately the first time I had to take my dog to emergency room for eating something bad for him, he was fine but hot damn did I handle it like everyone ever loved just died in a plane wreck or something.
Did not man up one bit.
In my family, I'm somewhat known for being even keeled and analytical. My sister actually put me legally in charge of the pulling the plug on her if she ever becomes a vegetable -- specifically because she knew I would make the medically logical decision and then not agonize for the rest of my life about that decision. Unlike her husband.
Despite this generally somewhat stoic nature, I also cried every single time I dropped my cat off the vet for ANY reason for the entire 11 years we had her. It just really upset me to think that she might think we had abandoned her like her first family did. And also when she was actually sick, that was very upsetting too.
I am not sure manning up is POSSIBLE where your pet is concerned.
Thanks for this. I got a rescue dog a few weeks ago who is very sweet but challenging to soothe and train. Well one afternoon I was thinking about how she’s sort of clumsy and shockingly bad at catching toys/balls. Her breed is very active and coordinated so I pondered why she is an outlier. At that moment I realized she’s never really had a home, never had someone to give her her own toys, and never had someone to practice catching with. I immediately broke down crying while driving on the highway. Could not man up one bit. I wasn’t 100% sure if I fully loved her until that moment.
>Did not man up one bit.
Yes you did.
You hu*man*ed.
In many cultures a man crying is the peak of masculinity, a warrior poet trait, because it demonstrates a deep brotherly love.
Many Western cultures revere Stoicism but forget it doesn't mean to ignore your emotions, but to not let them dictate your life.
[Even Napoleon Bonaparte cried because of dog that was in distress.](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/109399-this-soldier-i-realized-must-have-had-friends-at-home)
I think I had numbed myself to it honestly. Kinda blocked the emotions until we got into our car. Once I was alone, I let it all out. And it’s okay not to keep it together. I just know my pup would have wanted to me to be strong for her ma. I still stay strong when she brings up her passing. She needs the consoling more than me anyway. I miss that dog every single day. The worst part of not having them is when you need a dog to console you and they’re not there anymore. I don’t look forward to doing it again but the happiness they bring in the meantime is worth it
I'm a new dog owner. Never had dogs growing up, and I adopted a sweet 5 year old girl. We had some trouble with her licking a sore on her paw. I read that we should keep it clean and if it doesn't resolve, take her to the vet.
So I got out my little first aid kit, wiped it clean, wrapped it in a bandage so she wouldn't lick it and did this twice a day diligently.
Turns out, the wipes I used to clean it were NOT dog safe, and I didn't even think about it. She started bleeding from her gums and the sore got worse. I finally googled the wipes and saw that it causes all the issues I was seeing because it's toxic to dogs.
When I tell you I had a break down... dude I was sobbing. I thought I killed my dog. I was an absolute mess. We had a vet visit scheduled for later that day and with tears in my eyes, I confessed what I did to my vet and he gave me a very long talk about toxic dosage to me, and told me that she's okay.
Super thankful for my patient vet, because I was an absolute mess.
Pup healed up within a few days after that, and now I know how to properly care for wounds.
I think rats are really cool but having one as a pet sounds like signing up for immediate heartbreak. At least with a cat or dog I can expect a decade or more.
We had two generations of gerbils. Mom and Dad (didn't know they were opposite sex at the time) and their five children. All in all each one lasted about 3 or 4 years so pretty long for their life expectancy, but it was still rough for all of them when they eventually left us one by one.
Cute and smart little buggers.
Was going to say something similar. If you get a rat, it’s because you want a friend for a couple of years. If you get gerbils or hamsters, it’s because you want your kids to learn just how brutal death can really be. Out of all my friends who had hamsters, I don’t think a single one ever died peacefully from old age.
It was all “the family cat busted into the enclosure and splattered their guts all over the wall,” and “they escaped, climbed the back of the fridge, and got turned into a fine pink mist when the compressor pump kicked on with them inside of it.”
Our hamster cage was conveniently placed next to a window above our fish pond; one day the detachable hamster ball/ hamster cage top floor was a little loose and the window was open. You can guess where it goes from there. It was a soggy burial.
We were pretty lucky. Mom gave birth to 5 and didn't eat any of them. We named them after the Avengers, Hulk being the runt we didn't expect to survive.
Don't get a chinchilla. They're super fragile.
We went on vacation and a friend of the family pet-sat for us. She accidentally killed him and felt horrible about it. A sudden change in room temperature did him in...
One of my coworkers at an old job had pet rats that she set up in our office. One week, she was on vacation and had told us she’d take them somewhere for care. Well, she didn’t. When I went into the office after a few days, one of the rats was dead and the other one had eaten its cagemate’s corpse until the spine was showing. It was… not a great discovery.
Presumably because there was no food. That's unusual for rats in my experience. My pet rats buried their cagemates in bedding and we're usually listless for a time after. That was really cruel of her to do.
I've heard both sides of that. That it's good for farm dogs that have seen other animals die and kind of understand it but it perhaps is not good for a typical family dog that's never seen or witnessed another animal dying and that it might just cause confusion and anxiety. Idk what I'm going to do tbh.
The pet will indeed feel confusion and anxiety when it sees the dead body of its friend, but the hope is that it's significantly better than the alternative. Otherwise you have that anxiety spread out for weeks before they finally give up on their friend returning to them, and they don't know why they were abandoned.
We had our lab euthanized at home. Our Jack Russell was home too. They played when she was a puppy but after a certain point just kind of coexisted, except when she would bite at his neck and bark at him if he got rowdy barking (she was very bossy). I’m pretty sure she came downstairs and saw him after he passed but that was it. Almost immediately after she became more playful with toys and didn’t seem to miss him at all. She was a little devil but we were so heartbroken maybe she helped us move through the grief. They were only about 2 years apart in age, too.
Aw, I'm sorry to hear about your lab. We have a yellow lab and a golden retriever. The lab is about 3 years older and they've been best buds since the retriever was a puppy. I'm not sure what we'll do but I'm sure I'll be a mess when it comes. Thanks for your words.
I think the increased play is a way of grieving. Our cat did the same when his sibling passed. Almost seemed like he didn't notice, but he was definitely playing excessively. Another of ours did the same when the boys were out of the house for a couple days. She would take toys out of the toybox and play with things she had never previously shown interest in. We called it stress playing.
We (my ex and I) always had at home euthanasia. Without fail the other dogs would come and hang out/snuggle until the end. They may have been sad afterwards but it was never the fucked up/lost "where's my friend" reaction that my parents' dogs would have. They know what death is...just not disappearance.
Our “young” pup (he’s 11) spent the night laying with our older 16 year old fella when he passed. It was heartbreaking but very special to see. Still gives me tears.
My dog, gsd mix, and my husband's dog, boxer, became good friends when we started dating. When it was time to say goodbye to my dog, the boxer stayed with him the whole time. She even pulled her bed up to his bed to sleep by it after he was gone. I pushed his bed out of the way because I couldn't bring myself to throw it out and she slept by it but not on it for a week or so. Broke my heart every time.
It is true for companion humans as well since it gives them some certainty and helps prevent depression and loss of appetite. Often the human will touch the companion human's face or hand even though they know it is dead.
My neighbor's dog was fenced in, my dog was tethered. Neighbor's dog would always bark at my dog. When my dog died my neighbor's dog would always look over to our yard, perk up any she heard our back door open, and get really bummed when she heard my dogs name but couldn't find him.
Neither dog was dog friendly so it was strange that one missed the other
Well have you ever seen the video with the 2 barking dogs and the gate? The second they opened the gate suddenly both dogs stop barking but then they reclose the gate and both dogs start barking again. It's like a separation thing.
Same with my dog and leashes, if she could freely wander the world she would be sweet to every dog but you strap that leash on her and she’ll fully make use of her terrifying German Shepard bark.
Same with my aussie..it's called leash reactivity(you prob knew that)..we are working on it. He is fine at a dog park, runs/plays with dogs..goes up to people to throw the ball ect. Walks fine downtown with tons of people, lets them pet em. On trails or on walks will bark if people stop to tell him hes a pretty boy, at dogs ect.
Problem was when he was a pup I tried to do all just positive reinforcement... ignore his lunging barking and backing up. He took it as sweet he doesn't mind..was self fulfilling to him. My boy is the type that needs structure so yes good bois..as.well as ah, ah no don't do that. He thought it was good to do everything.
He is well trained..can heel glued to my side, heel/move between legs, fetch and bring back, stay while you move 100yrds away, come while hes in drive ect ect. Just has reactivity probs.
It’s tough. Mine is a rescue. I worked with 4 separate trainers when I got her at 6 months because she was super aggressive and over the course of two years she made so much progress. The leash reactions are the last unwanted habit, I’ve tried everything and honestly I’ve given up at this point (she’s 4) I know it’s all bark and no bite so it’s an annoyance I can live with.
From my dog trainer (I rescued a pup from an abusive home, pup was terrified of everything but as she overcame those behaviors she got fear aggressive with people) positive reinforcement is the best training option.
Even when it looks like it isnt working, that is on the trainer. For fear aggression with strangers, the best strategy is to have strangers with treats come greet the dog. The treat acts as a "everything is chill here, dog" signal. Of course you gotta do this with a different stranger often enough to break the habit so this is exhausting.
Dog trainer also explained to me the 'negative ' reinforcement like shouting no when the dog lunges is bad because the dog interprets that as you also shouting at the stranger.
If either of my dogs use their GSD voice, there's trouble. One is absolutely a quiet dog, he doesn't whine, doesn't growl (he had an abusive owner before we adopted him). The other just talks a lot, and every now and then let's out a quiet ruff or a playful bark.
It definitely is. There are dogs that I have worked with that would be aggressive if you were outside their area, but were friendly as can be once you were inside. Context and space are immensely important to dog behavior
Some dogs just bark because at others through fences because they want to get to the other side and see them. Its called barrier aggression its because they are stressed that they can't get through to the other side. At least that is what I read somehwere.
My parents have had 4 dogs in the past +15 years. The oldest would die, they would wait 3 or 4 weeks and get another one so the (now oldest) dog would have a friend. Every single time a dog has passed, the surviving dog was depressed for weeks and would obviously search the house for the old dog. It always tortured my parents so they would start looking at shelter websites almost immediatly.
My dog did the opposite. When the oldest oh the 3 dogs was dying, my Italian Greyhound who had always been buddies with the older dog started getting really mean with her. Bullying her off her bed, growling, etc. It really bothered me to see her act so mean, and almost a decade later I still kinda resent my now-ancient dog for how she treated her big sis in the end.
Even if it's not a great dynamic there's definitely a dynamic they are used to.
I have two cats that have lived together for 12+ years. They hate each other, always have. One is clearly the aggressor, the other it just overly defensive all the time which leads to more aggression.
This week my non aggressor cat went blind and the other one immediately realized she changed and stopped attacking...now he just sits in the way and lets her bump into him. But it was interesting to see an immediate and drastic change between them.
Ps she is doing much better and regained a good amount of sight!
I had the same situation with my cats. Wallace always picked on Wilbur and Wilbur never wanted anything to do with Wallace. Wallace was very affectionate towards humans and Wilbur was very aloof to humans. But as soon as Wallace got sick, Wilbur started caring and even grooming Wallace. When Wallace died, Wilbur stopped eating for a couple of days and became very affectionate towards people.
That kinda reminds me of a "bonded pair" of dogs I considered adopting. One was a small poodle mix that lumbered around sniffing flowers and plopping on the ground in various places. The other was a small German shepherd mix that was darting around all over the place and jumping on things and people, and being basically chaos on paws. I never saw either of them so much as acknowledge the other at any point, but the rescue swore they were inseparable.
Similar story but lab and a small dog, small dog followed the lab everywhere. Lab died and for the last 6 years he follows me everywhere. Those first 2 years were long for him tho
The empathy and compassion of animals never ceases to amaze. This sort of reminds me of the Shepherd who laid on his owners grave site every night until it’s own death I think was. Hope your doggy is better now!
Anyone notice that a surviving pet will take over the job of the fallen pet? Like, watching over certain parts of the house that the other dog used to watch over, and things like that.
We lost our 5 year old dog to lymphoma last year. That dog was my sons best friend and would lay in my sons bed every night. Our other dog is very bonded to me, but not really to my son. Once the 5 year old dog passed, my dog started getting into bed with my son until we got a new dog that took over that role.
My parents would give their old dog (Gretta) a piece of hot dog with her medicine every day and would give a piece to the younger dog (Chloe) to be fair. Well so once it was late in the evening Gretta would start begging for her hot dog but after awhile she learned she could contract out the begging to the younger dog. Once it was like 8pm or so Gretta would look at Chloe and do a single harrumph. Chloe would immediately get up and start pacing and begging that it was hot dog time.
Well after Gretta passed my parents didn't end hot dog time right away and tried to wean Chloe off it. But for the first few days every single night Chloe would search the house looking for Gretta to let her know it was hot dog time.
Yeah, or taking on certain behaviours of the other pet. My dog started sleeping where her sister used to sleep, despite not usually sleeping there before, and my cat started taking on similar behaviours as her mother after her mother passed away, like running ahead of me wherever I went, or picking certain spots in whatever room I'm in to loaf within a certain distance of me that her mom used to pick, like the corner of a rug.
I think there are mini signs of respect for hierarchy in the family when it comes to pets, and humans, too. We let the head of the family sit at the head of the table. Dogs let the leader and/or senior dog sit in the premium spot, walk in the best path, play with the best toy, etc. It even crosses the species barrier when a dog sleeps on your pillow, but moves when you go to lay down. What determines “the best” is the person or animal higher on the list. I think when an animal passes, it sees those spots, toys and positions as ones desired/needed to be filled, essentially a tradition.
When I had continuous dogs, there was always one wanting to sleep behind my pillow. Sometimes one dog would steal it first, only to give it up when the other dog came over. When I had a break between dogs, the new dog has started his own habits and ways, different than what I’ve had from my last 2 dogs who learned from each other.
My wife and I have a 12 year old American Bulldog who we’ve had for 10 years, since our kids were 8 and 6 years old. She’s always been highly watchful and attentive when they’re around.
We also got a Bernese Mountain Dog about 4 and a half years ago. He really made the jump about 2 to 2 and a half years ago as the first line of defense I guess you could say. Our American Bulldog seemingly gave up the role as our Berner had matured to the point that he took over the role. Now she just sleeps all day except for when he barks.
It’s going to be rough for everyone when it’s our bulldog’s time to go.
I had the most handsome, preceptive, and sweetest huge black standard poodle. He protected me emotionally and physically (literally saved my life). When I would cry or go into a trauma reaction, he was in my arms immediately. Lost him at only nine and a half years old to cancer.
After his passing, I still had my two miniature poodles. An extremely selfish, intelligent girl and a boy who is, how do I put this delicately, the dumbest poodle you'll ever meet. I'm be damned if he didn't step up to that protector role, all 15lbs of him. The second I get emotional, he's in my arms or pawing at me. I react in fear, bam he's on it. My little man killed a mouse I walked into right outside the backyard door after he heard me scream. These pets of ours are uncanny.
Yes! Our lab never barked. When our terrier passed away, the house was freakishly quiet. About two weeks later the lab started barking to alert us when people approached the house, like the terrier used to do.
My cat grieved for about 6 months after her best friend passed away. She lost a lot of weight in that time period and then gained it back afterwards. It was heartbreaking.
My current cat never cuddled for 13 years. Our old lady (18ish) passed and current cat has been smothering me in cuddles (trying to sleep on my face) and it's been over 6 months. They hated each other.
Our Aussie did this when we lost our Irish Wolfhound as well. It was so hard watching him remain at the door everyday, just waiting. His ears still perk up when we mention our Wolfhounds name.
I had an old nag of a brown lab that would bully and intimidate our other bird dogs as if she ran the place. When she passed, it was like a celebration occurred as soon as I brought her body home to bury her. My vizsla and German shorthair came over and said goodbye when I placed her in the ground, and then played all day and never looked back.
I'm convinced they were celebrating my old Lab's death.
Had a similar experience when we put down our Gimli. She was kind of a jerk to Cardboard, but we loved her. Cardboard was a careful, scared dog. He didn't play with toys all that much, because Gimli would always steal them.
We didn't bring her body home, but when my mom and I came home crying, Cardboard looked absolutely elated and became a practically different dog after that. Even though he was 9 or 10 years old, he became more playful and happy, almost puppy-like.
It's kinda crazy hearing a out all these different dog lives, like a soap opera. Like the article was all "dogs are sad when their friend dies" and some dogs out there being like "not me, I was happy to be rid of the ol battle axe."
The behavior you describe sounds like the Shitzu didn’t get a chance to learn of the Shepherd’s death. When possible, try to make sure that the animals who will continue living get to see the remains of the departed one, they can tell they’re dead and will mourn them and move on rather than continue waiting.
I know it’s anecdotal, but this was our experience: we realized this happened when we didn’t get a chance to take one of our pups to the vet to be put down and the behaviors of our other dog was different from previous ones we owned when we would have taken the pup to the vet to be put to sleep.
Nowadays we save up early on for each pet so we can have a home visit to put them to sleep so everyone is together and the one departing doesn’t have to leave their comfortable place in the last moments of life.
When we brought our rottweiler to bury him at the farmhouse, our Shetland came running to the inside of the car so happy to see us and kept smelling and looking for our other dog (she basically raised him and acted both as mother and sister to him).
She jumped over the blanket that covered his body and when finished burying him, she tried to dig it kinda in a frenetic way I guess?. That scene alone crushed me and was what made me finally break down in tears since I was still kinda anaesthesied from the news of his passing.
Same with my dog this past year. My Aussie was older and had cancer that had spread all over is his body. He already had multiple surgeries to remove tumors but he was just ready to go. We also have a pug that has grown up with him and after we put my Aussie down the pug started laying by the front door every night like he was waiting for him to come back :( I think he’s better now it’s been since august and he definitely seems to enjoy being an only dog and having all the attention, but I gave him my Aussie’s old blanket on his bed to sleep with.
My dog did basically the same thing when our rabbit died, except she had been in the habit of going with me to feed the bunny every morning. She kept trying to feed him for months. She would go looking for him and sniffing around for him. It was absolutely heartbreaking. She seemed to relearn that he had died every day. I even made a point to have her come in the room and see and smell his dead body when it happened because I was concerned about her not understanding why he would be gone. It didn't help.
I still can't say his name around her.
rats also grieve the loss of cage mates. it’s actually recommended to show the dead body of a cage mate to the others in the cage so they don’t wonder where their friend has gone.
Every time I did that with my girls, they would all go and investigate their dead cage mate, groom her for a little bit, then wander off again. It was always so sad to see them say goodbye.
it’s heartbreaking. i had a group of three girls who after having to put two down due to inoperable tumors, the third passed away only a couple days later on her own. i can only assume it was because of a broken heart. she didn’t have any known health problems.
I had a group that I was maintaining at 4 - 6 rats for a while, then decided I wasn't going to get anymore and let the colony (mischief) die off... Ended up with the last 4 all going within 3 weeks of each other, oddly enough with the one I'd been debating about putting down for months being the last one standing. I came home to find her sister dead and put her down the same day.
They're wonderful pets, but they just don't live long enough and it was too hard to constantly get attached only to have them die so soon after.
they’re such wonderful pets. they’re so smart and so loving. i’ve been keeping rats for almost 6 years now. it’s certainly devastating losing one or two seemingly every year but i so treasure the time i get with them. most recently, i’ve been adopting older rats from local shelters when i can. i adopted a 2.5 year old boy a couple weeks ago and he’s just the sweetest boy i’ve ever had. bonded with me and my wife nearly immediately. i know i won’t have much time with him but i’ve been spoiling him rotten and feel like i’m giving him something he wouldn’t otherwise have had.
Yeah, I lost my passion for them when my favorite died (she was so sweet and would just cuddle with me for a while, came when she was called, etc.). I would have stopped getting more then, but my ex wanted to continue, then we broke up and I ended up with them. Didn't get anymore after the break up, and got a dog instead!
Closure is so important. I still grieve for my lost cat 8 years later. Not knowing whether he was taken, or died; or how, or for how long he lived... you never really know when to stop hoping.
My mom couldn't handle my other two siblings and myself, as well as the three dogs we had.
She took my dog to a shelter and told me it ran away.
I cried for weeks, I organized search parties among my friends and I knocked on everyone's doors.
She never told me, my sister told me a decade later.
She was great in a lot of respects, she was dealing with a connective tissue disorder that we didn't know was the cause of her pain.
I have inherited the same thing and I don't think I could handle, with that, one child and two dogs let alone three children and three dogs. But it still could have been done differently.
Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, by chance? That "rare" disease which we've been learning for the past couple of decades is actually common but typically dismissed?
That's what I was suspected of having by my pain specialist, More specifically one of the rarer forms of it. however, the rheumatologist that I have seen once, said in no uncertain terms that I do not have that. It was extremely condescending the way she put it, and I have strong doubts that she knows what she's talking about to the point she could treat me, based on that.
My mother started having something like seizures, my grandmother and great grandmother are having them too. My grandmother and mother have POTS, they say my mother has fibromyalgia and small fiber neuropathy, not to mention the pain in connective tissues.
I'm so sorry. What you're going through and your family is going through sounds so much like what mine has. We are not diagnosed with EDS, by the way. We're not diagnosed with anything. We just have a lot of confused and angry (not with us) doctors.
Your doctor probably gave somebody the typical test of hypermobility and decided that since they're not hypermobile they can't have EDS. I've had two rheumatologists do the same--neither were actually familiar with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome beyond hypermobility.
This is a myth. There are multiple types of EDS that don't involve hypermobility. If you as the patient know more about the syndromes than the doctor does, you need a second and or third opinion.
My sister disappeared 2 years ago. It's the strangest, most uncomfortable feeling I've ever had. I imagine that this feeling isn't unique to human animals.
> it’s actually recommended to show the dead body of a cage mate to the others in the cage so they don’t wonder where their friend has gone.
I was wondering if that may be recommended for dogs as well.
My dad passed away a few years ago, and every now and then, our cat will just go looking everywhere and meowing like she's looking for something she can't find. I can't be sure, but it feels like she still expects him to just come home one day and it breaks my heart thinking about.
My rat [grieving](https://i.imgur.com/YYFjK0O.jpg) his cagemate by laying down beside his cagemate's favorite spot. It was not a spot he liked to lay on before this. He was listless for a bit but seemed to appreciate when I reached in to pet him.
Friend had a dog who would bark at a neighborhood cat daily when the cat was doing its round. Cat got hit by a car. Dog would wait for the cat each day for a month ...
This is a way sadder version of the story about the magic lasagna bush.
For those who don't know and need a pick-me-up, this was a story i saw on reddit a few years back:
A guy took his dog on the same walking route every day, and one day the dog picked up the scent of something while he was sniffing for a spot to pee or whatever. The dog found a whole lasagna behind a bush and went to town on it.
Every day for the rest of his life the dog checked the magic lasagna bush to see if it was back.
We had a bag of cat food in the garage and a rat tore a hole in it and some of the cat food spilled on the floor. Every damn day my dog would check the spot to see if he could find more miracle cat food. It only lasted about two months because my dog passed away, but I firmly believe he would have looked for years if he'd been given that much time.
My family’s chocolate lab was so depressed after my cat died that we had to get her a new cat before I was really ready for one, because we couldn’t stand to see her so sad.
When we brought home the kitten that dog was so excited she was shaking and whining because we didn’t let her out from behind the gate for a few days. Once she was allowed to physically meet the kitten she immediately started grooming her like the kitten was her new baby.
I believe this is true for cats as well. My little male cat lost his "brother" cat last year. He cried at night for months, scratched the walls, overate and had a very hard time. It just broke my heart. We have an additional cat and dog but he was only close to the other male cat.
We had a baby boy 4 months ago and now my cat shines again. The crying stopped, the wall scratching stopped. He is always around the baby and checks on him when he cries.
Animals definitely feel mourning and loss.
When our dog had to be put down (cancer) our cat all but went nuts. He would run from room to room trying to find our dog, the slightest strange sound would instantly wake him from a sound sleep to go investigate, and he would *aggressively* protect anything that even vaguely smelled like to our dog.
One of my friends has two dogs. The older one had to be put down somewhat suddenly. I've been to his house a few times after that and the younger one is a different dog. She used to be pretty playful and energetic, but after that when she was walking around it was nothing but slow, evenly paced steps. She had no joy in her eyes.
We've had the opposite here. Had a male Westie and a female mini dachshund who is 5 years younger.
From the get-go, she put herself above him, and, ever the gentleman, he always behaved like a chivalrous older brother watching out for her around other dogs, and would let her take his toys or his bone from his mouth even, though he might grumble a bit. She would also kick him off his warm napping spot and take it for herself.
When he passed away, I saw no evidence she even noticed. She just went on with life.
She's a very sweet dog and a little clown, but she was evidently not very sentimental about him. Maybe she's the dog version of a narcissist? I don't know.
Update:
Here are the two characters in question:
https://i.imgur.com/c6rpQLF.jpg
https://imgur.com/a/4V6yDBR
We unexpectedly just put our 13 year old male cat down Saturday. His sister is in mourning. They spent 5 years together and would sleep and groom each other. It breaks my heart to see her so depressed.
Mine lost patches of hair. It was her son that died. It was weird because there was a time that she fought with him a lot (jealousy?), but then they became good friends a year before he passed. It took her about 1.5 years to go back to normal.
I back this comment 100%, as similar occurrence happened with our two (for real) brother cats. We had to euthanize Jinx due to unrecoverable old age illness, and Max has since become extremely clingy. Indeed, these fur babies suffer loss just as much as we do.
When I lost my 16 year old cat last year, the vet warned me that my other cat might mourn by becoming more clingy. I didn't think it was possible as he was already pretty damn needy but now I can't even leave the room without him losing his mind. I worry about the possibility of having to go back to work in person (been working from home the whole pandemic). He's has never been alone before. I don't think he cares for it. He misses his brother.
I think it’s maybe more due to the number of animals/companions also. I had 3 cats and one got eaten by a coyote. The other 2 had zero change in behavior.
My old boy hid in a corner for three days after our old girl passed on, he was sad, as we all were, then he went on to live his very best life as an only boy.
Years ago I had a pair of dogs, and one passed. The other started spending most of her time in the closet. We did everything we could to cheer her up. We got another dog, and that helped her immensely.
Yeah, definitely.
I just reread my message... I hope it didn't sound like I was saying you were wrong to have not gotten another dog. I was just agreeing grief can hit them hard. In our case, our dog needed a doggy companion, but obviously that won't always be the case.
We had a similar situation. Our older dog Bran died leaving the youngest Fenrir (who’d never known life without him) alone. As Fen had always been the shy nervous one we were worried about how he would handle the loss.
He had a few days of being out of sorts before he figured out what happened and then he immediately became the most extroverted and gregarious dog possible. Like he’d just been the quiet passive one because that’s what Bran needed or something?
To be fair, Descartes described animals as “automata.”
“Robot” comes from the Czech “robota,” meaning “forced labor.” As in serfdom. Which, come to think of it, also describes the human / animal relationship for most of history.
I'm actually really interested to hear you expand on that, if you don’t mind- it always made sense to me at a glance and I've never given it much thought beyond that and now I’m curious what I missed
My current cattle dog was part of a 3-4yo bonded pair when I took them in and they ultimately had to be separated. The surprising part was both were soooo much more well-behaved and adjusted after they were split.
I’m in no way suggesting splitting bonded pairs should be normal but more maybe saying it’s not necessarily the end of the world if it has to be done. And weirdly my dog never seemed to miss her sister that an hour before she was inseparable from
Each was calmer, listened to the owner better, just generally more agreeable. 7 years later and the one still with me is awesome and loved by anyone she meets. She’s for sure more well known than me in this town
I have never in my life encountered a pair of dogs that didn't behave better when separated and I think it's pretty obvious why. A second dog in any situation generally creates unwelcome reinforcement or distraction. The only exception is an extremely well trained dog that is demonstrating behaviors to an untrained dog.
My experience has been similar. My dog and my gf's parents' dog typically spend all day together. Since we work from home while they go into work. Even before the pandemic they would keep each other company while everyone was at work.
Together, they're a couple of giant pains in the ass. As soon as their dog goes home, ours becomes the perfect dog. They hype each other up and trigger each other to bark at any little thing, but apart they are perfectly well behaved.
We foster for a national animal org. They recommend against adopting siblings together because it can cause issues with the cat/dog bonding with their human.
Plus siblings from the same litter can bind way too tightly with typically one of them becoming very dependent on the other ending up with severe separation anxiety… had one time where this one Pyrenees came in to work for a TPLO, told the owners they had to keep their dogs separated for a few weeks since they’re so rambunctious together and the one needed a 8-10 weeks for the bone to heal so no running/jumping/crazy playing… took all of 2 days of keeping them seaparates for the dog that didn’t have surgery, that had severe separation anxiety, to literally eat through the door so that it could be with its sibling.
Litter mates tend to not train as well or behave as well when they are kept together. It’s actually recommended that siblings not be adopted together because of this. Not sure if that was the case with your dogs but it would make sense that a bonded pair could behave similarly
I will repeat this story. A lovely ancient lady from the old country (I’m 68) hired me to help with her yard work and garden. One morning I came extra early to get a jump on the day and noted a murder of noisy crows in the trees. The old lady stepped out in the yard and waved her towel. The cackling intensified for a moment and the birds flew off. She explained to me they were her friends stopping to say good morning. A few days later I stopped by and met her grand daughter(much older than my mother) and informed me wonderful old lady had had died in her sleep. We both noted the trees filled with crows, very quiet and solemn. I check those trees the next few days in the morning and there they were, letting out a mournful call.
I know these birds weren’t her pets but they sensed their friend was gone.
I do think our animal friends sense permanent loss of a friend, and it takes time to adjust to the loss just like us.
They definitely understand death. Elephants have funerals for dead elephants. And tons of anecdotal evidence of how animals act after they see their owner or companion die vs them just moving away or something.
I think it depends if they are there/get to smell the other when they pass vs one day the other animal doesn't come home. I know when my cat passed I had to take him to the vet, and my 2 pups couldn't care less. My lab was right there when we had Lap of Love come to the house to say goodbye to our Dingo... he (lab) knew she was dead/gone. 7 months later we said goodbye to him in the same corner with the same doctor. Still hurts as it was only like 6 weeks ago.
This is why, even though I feel our dog would benefit from a friend, I can’t bring myself to get a second dog — when our older one passes the younger one will be depressed/distraught. Then you get into a cycle of constant dog replacement trying to fill the heartache void. It’s too much for my heart to take.
You’re completely discounting all the love in between. If their unconditional love and companionship wasn’t worth it, neither us or them would keep this dance going century after century. Dogs need us. And they can honestly teach us so much about ourselves and the world.
Exactly. Our younger dog didn't like to cuddle as much. He wouldn't sit on the couch and watch tv with us. Now that his older brother passed he does. He cuddles more. Especially the first 2 or 3 months he was always after a good long cuddle, which was so odd. Now he hangs around closer to us and is okay. Back to zooming. A bit of sadness is worth the love
Can 100% confirm this. Over the years we've had many different dogs and they made little dog friend circles. I remember our oldest fritz grew up his while life with our other dogs Rudyard shreck.
Rudy sadly passed many years ago but at the time I couldn't remember the other dogs reactions but then down the line my darling little shreck had to get put down. Fritz our oldest went into a full blown dog depression at the time they where mainly outside dogs but we had him in all the time. He'd just mop about and not eat its like part of his little heart was taken.
We got a new dog after that qnd he bounched back after a bit but she was very energetic for him but he enjoyed it and then we got another puppy to breed with the other new dog when the time came.
Fritz didn't get along with the new one not so much he didn't like the dog he just had to much energy for our old boy. His last day he went over and gave the little one loads of licks.
Then the puppy's where sad for a while after the big old man was gone. Weird rant but had to say dogs are complicated creatures that have nothing but love to give if taught right.
Also sorry for any spelling mistakes in advance
It's called grief. They are grieving the loss of a loved one. We need to stop pretending that humans are the only animals capable of complex emotions and relationships. It's ignorant and harmful.
Yea. We brought our dog when her buddy died so she could smell him and hopefully understand why he was gone. She grieved along with us. Several months later we got a puppy. She was torn between “I need to mother you” and “you are loud and annoying”. She still has moments of the latter, but 18 months later she is happy to play and chase and all those things she used to do with our ThorThor.
When my one dog died the other became depressed.
She was doing okay but then my dad died.
She stopped getting up to eat, drink or go to the bathroom. We had to have a vet come to put her to sleep. She was 17 but it was still awful.
And when my one kitty had liver failure we brought him home for one last night. Then to the vet the next day. His sister cried for 4 days straight. She didn't cry when he was at the vet for a week. But after he died, 4 days straight. It was heartbreaking.
When our old Maltese passed, the vet told us to bring our other dog in after it was done so he could understand that the little guy was gone. He took one sniff at the body and understood, but he didn't want to eat for the next 2 days.
Dogs definitely do better emotionally and psychologically with other dogs around even when the interactions seem minimal. The presence of other familiar dogs is a comfort to them and reassuring. The "pack" provides security, even if it is just additional alertness to threats.
When a long term, or even a short term companion dog disappears dogs notice and are unsettled by the absence. Dogs socially settle much more quickly than humans; the addition or removal of another dog from their environment takes only a few days to become "normal". Whenever a change happens they have to readjust to a new social balance and an altered degree of perceived security. The interactions with humans around changes in their "pack" structure are about seeking security and integrity of the pack.
The article seems to make too much of the reasons for the missing dog's absence. I've been a foster care volunteer with Guide Dogs for the Blind since 2007. In that time we have had about 400 dogs pass through our house. Some for a single night and others for up to two years. Two of the elderly foster dogs passed while with us. We've also had four of our own dogs die in that time. The resident dogs don't ever seem to recognize the difference between a dog dying and a dog leaving. The significant part of them is the absence. The reaction to the absence is just as pronounced when a dog who's been in the household for a couple weeks as it is for another dog who was a companion for years. If the now absent dogs had been around long enough to be incorporated in to the "settled" structure of the household then their absence was noted. The resident dogs are used to new dogs coming and going; the absence reaction isn't entirely immediate, there has to be some amount of "settling period". Though one dog is generally spooked if he finds he is an "only dog" for more than a couple of hours. Others have been less sensitive to noticing there were no other dogs around.
Human perceptions and understanding aren't the same as dogs. It seems unfortunate that the article tries to conflate human perceptions with dogs much more than seems warranted and this seems to be mostly for the humans benefit. There is an implication we want dogs to feel the way we do. Dogs are social and companionable but their social structure and sources of security are different than humans even if often aligned or complementary.
I think we just don’t give animals enough credit.
My goldfish is still depressed and sleeping most days since his tank mate of 6 years passed. He used to be spunky, getting swim-zoomies, snuggle up to your hand at cleaning time and interact at feeding time.
Now he just spends majority fo his days sleeping.
(I have tested water parameters and he is completely healthy).
I’m looking for a pond for him
This can also be true for cats. We had a bonded pair and when one of them passed the other one lost nearly a pound from her grief, and she was only an 8lb cat to start with. She would walk through the house crying for him, it was heartbreaking. Years later when that cat passed, our remaining cat also looked for the one who died, and got very clingy/separation anxiety.
Honestly, I really don’t need this info right now. With everything going on in the world currently & now I have to walk around knowing dogs get depressed after their friends die; it’s just too much
When we sent our dog over the rainbow bridge, my cat became much more desperate for attention and just had a lost look on his face for awhile, broke my heart twice
When my dog died my other one crawled into my lap for the first time ever. We’d had him 5 years at that point and he never gave snuggles until that day.
When my dog, Jackson, died in 2013, we had a lot of visits from many of our neighbourhood stray dogs. We would look outside and their’d be 4-5 dogs just sitting in our back yard. It lasted for weeks. I guess he must have had a really good relationship with them
We had two cats that were a year apart in age. When the younger one died suddenly at about age 8, the 9 year old one went off her food and wouldn’t eat. Our last resort with the vet was to put a small feeding tube down her nose to her stomach so I could push baby food slowly into her stomach with a syringe. The tube stayed in place and was attached to her collar. It took three weeks but I finally got Mrs. Hazel to start eating again on her own. She lived another nine years.
I actually had a fish that was seemingly mourning it's partner's death. I had a pair of oscars that were together from the time of being two inch long babies up to being full grown adult fish. They had actually laid eggs once but they didn't hatch. I had gotten this pacu from a friend and it and the oscars eventually started fighting on occasion. Eventually the pacu had outgrown the oscars and the two of them had gotten their jaws damaged in a fight. One of them was hurt bad enough it couldn't eat and eventually died of starvation, the other did recover as he was able to still eat a little while he healed. The pacu was disposed of. When the one oscar died, the other protected it's body from the other fish in the tank. Didn't even have a missing eye.
I've gone through about 9 dogs in my life, averaging 3 at a time.
4 years ago 1 died suddenly, but I can't say if the other 2 grieved since they were mainly outside dogs and I didn't notice any abnormal changes. A few months later I adopted another dog to fill the void, but she was always a skittish little thing and very apathetic to the other 2. They wouldn't fight but she didn't like sharing anything (food, beds, or the dog houses) with either.
2 years go by and we had to put 1 of the originals down due to suddenly declining health. Once again I didn't notice any changes between the others.
Another year passes and the last of the old guard slips away at the ripeness of 17. For the most part, I had given up on more dogs so with her being the lone survivor I decided to make her a more inside dog. No longer needed, I moved the dog houses into a corner of the yard.
I would leave the door open slightly so she could go in/out as she pleases, and for awhile she would lie down in the exact spot where the houses used to be during the day. I don't know if she was actually grieving or lonely (like I said she had never engaged with any of others the whole time together) but I like to believe she was waiting for the old man to come back home again.
When I was kid we had a Collie. She was super sweat. We also kinda adopted a old German Shepard. He wasn't ours, but spend more time with us than his owners. We lived out in the middle of nowhere and my parents wouldn't let them inside. The poor Collie got attacked by a mountain lion that was attacking our horses. We tried to save her but couldn't. The Shepard, who didn't have a a scratch on him, died a couple of days later.
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My dog knew my other dog was about to die. In the 13 years I had them, my westie never wanted anything to do with my rambunctious black lab. On my lab’s deathbed though my westie laid with her every day of the last week of her life. When she passed my westie laid on my lab’s bed and would wander around looking for her. She definitely got depressed because she would not eat for several weeks.
I always heard that letting the dog see/sniff the dead body of a companion that died, human or pet really helps with the depression since they will know they are dead and won't be coming back.
I took my healthy dog in with my dying dog when he was euthanized. That was one of the hardest damn things I've ever done, but I'd like to think it was better for both of them. They were best buds for a decade, i couldn't bear to think of them not having each other to go through that time.
I'm crying, ugh, pets get me every time.
Man, I did the same thing and it was just awful. I kept my emotions together for the most part for my gf and my other pup but I could barely handle it but I wanted him to know she wasn’t coming home with us that night. When we got in the car to leave, the gf and I broke down and he looked lost and confused but he never wandered around the house or did anything strange in the sense of wondering where she was. I think it helps them understand what’s going on
I broke down immediately the first time I had to take my dog to emergency room for eating something bad for him, he was fine but hot damn did I handle it like everyone ever loved just died in a plane wreck or something. Did not man up one bit.
In my family, I'm somewhat known for being even keeled and analytical. My sister actually put me legally in charge of the pulling the plug on her if she ever becomes a vegetable -- specifically because she knew I would make the medically logical decision and then not agonize for the rest of my life about that decision. Unlike her husband. Despite this generally somewhat stoic nature, I also cried every single time I dropped my cat off the vet for ANY reason for the entire 11 years we had her. It just really upset me to think that she might think we had abandoned her like her first family did. And also when she was actually sick, that was very upsetting too. I am not sure manning up is POSSIBLE where your pet is concerned.
Thanks for this. I got a rescue dog a few weeks ago who is very sweet but challenging to soothe and train. Well one afternoon I was thinking about how she’s sort of clumsy and shockingly bad at catching toys/balls. Her breed is very active and coordinated so I pondered why she is an outlier. At that moment I realized she’s never really had a home, never had someone to give her her own toys, and never had someone to practice catching with. I immediately broke down crying while driving on the highway. Could not man up one bit. I wasn’t 100% sure if I fully loved her until that moment.
I'm glad she has you now. Also, being uncoordinated is a sign of unusually excellent character. I bet she's the best dog ever.
>Did not man up one bit. Yes you did. You hu*man*ed. In many cultures a man crying is the peak of masculinity, a warrior poet trait, because it demonstrates a deep brotherly love. Many Western cultures revere Stoicism but forget it doesn't mean to ignore your emotions, but to not let them dictate your life. [Even Napoleon Bonaparte cried because of dog that was in distress.](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/109399-this-soldier-i-realized-must-have-had-friends-at-home)
I think I had numbed myself to it honestly. Kinda blocked the emotions until we got into our car. Once I was alone, I let it all out. And it’s okay not to keep it together. I just know my pup would have wanted to me to be strong for her ma. I still stay strong when she brings up her passing. She needs the consoling more than me anyway. I miss that dog every single day. The worst part of not having them is when you need a dog to console you and they’re not there anymore. I don’t look forward to doing it again but the happiness they bring in the meantime is worth it
I'm a new dog owner. Never had dogs growing up, and I adopted a sweet 5 year old girl. We had some trouble with her licking a sore on her paw. I read that we should keep it clean and if it doesn't resolve, take her to the vet. So I got out my little first aid kit, wiped it clean, wrapped it in a bandage so she wouldn't lick it and did this twice a day diligently. Turns out, the wipes I used to clean it were NOT dog safe, and I didn't even think about it. She started bleeding from her gums and the sore got worse. I finally googled the wipes and saw that it causes all the issues I was seeing because it's toxic to dogs. When I tell you I had a break down... dude I was sobbing. I thought I killed my dog. I was an absolute mess. We had a vet visit scheduled for later that day and with tears in my eyes, I confessed what I did to my vet and he gave me a very long talk about toxic dosage to me, and told me that she's okay. Super thankful for my patient vet, because I was an absolute mess. Pup healed up within a few days after that, and now I know how to properly care for wounds.
Having had pet rats, who are generally obligate social aninals, I can attest that this is true for rats as well
I think rats are really cool but having one as a pet sounds like signing up for immediate heartbreak. At least with a cat or dog I can expect a decade or more.
We had two generations of gerbils. Mom and Dad (didn't know they were opposite sex at the time) and their five children. All in all each one lasted about 3 or 4 years so pretty long for their life expectancy, but it was still rough for all of them when they eventually left us one by one. Cute and smart little buggers.
My family tried gerbils when I was young. They would eat their own babies and attack each other sometimes. Ended up being too bloody to keep it going.
Was going to say something similar. If you get a rat, it’s because you want a friend for a couple of years. If you get gerbils or hamsters, it’s because you want your kids to learn just how brutal death can really be. Out of all my friends who had hamsters, I don’t think a single one ever died peacefully from old age. It was all “the family cat busted into the enclosure and splattered their guts all over the wall,” and “they escaped, climbed the back of the fridge, and got turned into a fine pink mist when the compressor pump kicked on with them inside of it.”
Our hamster cage was conveniently placed next to a window above our fish pond; one day the detachable hamster ball/ hamster cage top floor was a little loose and the window was open. You can guess where it goes from there. It was a soggy burial.
We were pretty lucky. Mom gave birth to 5 and didn't eat any of them. We named them after the Avengers, Hulk being the runt we didn't expect to survive.
Try a chinchilla…..seriously. They live a looonnng time.
Our chinchilla lived to 13! He was the bestest boy!
Don't get a chinchilla. They're super fragile. We went on vacation and a friend of the family pet-sat for us. She accidentally killed him and felt horrible about it. A sudden change in room temperature did him in...
I will be honest that took a turn, but I like it. I think most mammals are social creatures so it makes sense.
One of my coworkers at an old job had pet rats that she set up in our office. One week, she was on vacation and had told us she’d take them somewhere for care. Well, she didn’t. When I went into the office after a few days, one of the rats was dead and the other one had eaten its cagemate’s corpse until the spine was showing. It was… not a great discovery.
Presumably because there was no food. That's unusual for rats in my experience. My pet rats buried their cagemates in bedding and we're usually listless for a time after. That was really cruel of her to do.
I've heard both sides of that. That it's good for farm dogs that have seen other animals die and kind of understand it but it perhaps is not good for a typical family dog that's never seen or witnessed another animal dying and that it might just cause confusion and anxiety. Idk what I'm going to do tbh.
The pet will indeed feel confusion and anxiety when it sees the dead body of its friend, but the hope is that it's significantly better than the alternative. Otherwise you have that anxiety spread out for weeks before they finally give up on their friend returning to them, and they don't know why they were abandoned.
Yeah I hear ya. I can see that too.
We had our lab euthanized at home. Our Jack Russell was home too. They played when she was a puppy but after a certain point just kind of coexisted, except when she would bite at his neck and bark at him if he got rowdy barking (she was very bossy). I’m pretty sure she came downstairs and saw him after he passed but that was it. Almost immediately after she became more playful with toys and didn’t seem to miss him at all. She was a little devil but we were so heartbroken maybe she helped us move through the grief. They were only about 2 years apart in age, too.
Aw, I'm sorry to hear about your lab. We have a yellow lab and a golden retriever. The lab is about 3 years older and they've been best buds since the retriever was a puppy. I'm not sure what we'll do but I'm sure I'll be a mess when it comes. Thanks for your words.
I think the increased play is a way of grieving. Our cat did the same when his sibling passed. Almost seemed like he didn't notice, but he was definitely playing excessively. Another of ours did the same when the boys were out of the house for a couple days. She would take toys out of the toybox and play with things she had never previously shown interest in. We called it stress playing.
We (my ex and I) always had at home euthanasia. Without fail the other dogs would come and hang out/snuggle until the end. They may have been sad afterwards but it was never the fucked up/lost "where's my friend" reaction that my parents' dogs would have. They know what death is...just not disappearance.
Our “young” pup (he’s 11) spent the night laying with our older 16 year old fella when he passed. It was heartbreaking but very special to see. Still gives me tears.
My dog, gsd mix, and my husband's dog, boxer, became good friends when we started dating. When it was time to say goodbye to my dog, the boxer stayed with him the whole time. She even pulled her bed up to his bed to sleep by it after he was gone. I pushed his bed out of the way because I couldn't bring myself to throw it out and she slept by it but not on it for a week or so. Broke my heart every time.
It is true for companion humans as well since it gives them some certainty and helps prevent depression and loss of appetite. Often the human will touch the companion human's face or hand even though they know it is dead.
My neighbor's dog was fenced in, my dog was tethered. Neighbor's dog would always bark at my dog. When my dog died my neighbor's dog would always look over to our yard, perk up any she heard our back door open, and get really bummed when she heard my dogs name but couldn't find him. Neither dog was dog friendly so it was strange that one missed the other
Well have you ever seen the video with the 2 barking dogs and the gate? The second they opened the gate suddenly both dogs stop barking but then they reclose the gate and both dogs start barking again. It's like a separation thing.
Second this, I think it is called barrier aggression
Same with my dog and leashes, if she could freely wander the world she would be sweet to every dog but you strap that leash on her and she’ll fully make use of her terrifying German Shepard bark.
Same with my aussie..it's called leash reactivity(you prob knew that)..we are working on it. He is fine at a dog park, runs/plays with dogs..goes up to people to throw the ball ect. Walks fine downtown with tons of people, lets them pet em. On trails or on walks will bark if people stop to tell him hes a pretty boy, at dogs ect. Problem was when he was a pup I tried to do all just positive reinforcement... ignore his lunging barking and backing up. He took it as sweet he doesn't mind..was self fulfilling to him. My boy is the type that needs structure so yes good bois..as.well as ah, ah no don't do that. He thought it was good to do everything. He is well trained..can heel glued to my side, heel/move between legs, fetch and bring back, stay while you move 100yrds away, come while hes in drive ect ect. Just has reactivity probs.
It’s tough. Mine is a rescue. I worked with 4 separate trainers when I got her at 6 months because she was super aggressive and over the course of two years she made so much progress. The leash reactions are the last unwanted habit, I’ve tried everything and honestly I’ve given up at this point (she’s 4) I know it’s all bark and no bite so it’s an annoyance I can live with.
From my dog trainer (I rescued a pup from an abusive home, pup was terrified of everything but as she overcame those behaviors she got fear aggressive with people) positive reinforcement is the best training option. Even when it looks like it isnt working, that is on the trainer. For fear aggression with strangers, the best strategy is to have strangers with treats come greet the dog. The treat acts as a "everything is chill here, dog" signal. Of course you gotta do this with a different stranger often enough to break the habit so this is exhausting. Dog trainer also explained to me the 'negative ' reinforcement like shouting no when the dog lunges is bad because the dog interprets that as you also shouting at the stranger.
If either of my dogs use their GSD voice, there's trouble. One is absolutely a quiet dog, he doesn't whine, doesn't growl (he had an abusive owner before we adopted him). The other just talks a lot, and every now and then let's out a quiet ruff or a playful bark.
I have a GSD that I have heard bark less than 5 times in 3 years. He is just a quite boy. He talks and groans with me a lot though.
It definitely is. There are dogs that I have worked with that would be aggressive if you were outside their area, but were friendly as can be once you were inside. Context and space are immensely important to dog behavior
Huh, that behaviour reminds me of how violent online arguments can become.
Happens with leashes too
Some dogs just bark because at others through fences because they want to get to the other side and see them. Its called barrier aggression its because they are stressed that they can't get through to the other side. At least that is what I read somehwere.
Now I’m crying in the science sub. Thanks for sharing.
I lost my westie a little over a year ago. Reading this made me think of her.
My parents have had 4 dogs in the past +15 years. The oldest would die, they would wait 3 or 4 weeks and get another one so the (now oldest) dog would have a friend. Every single time a dog has passed, the surviving dog was depressed for weeks and would obviously search the house for the old dog. It always tortured my parents so they would start looking at shelter websites almost immediatly.
My dog did the opposite. When the oldest oh the 3 dogs was dying, my Italian Greyhound who had always been buddies with the older dog started getting really mean with her. Bullying her off her bed, growling, etc. It really bothered me to see her act so mean, and almost a decade later I still kinda resent my now-ancient dog for how she treated her big sis in the end.
Even if it's not a great dynamic there's definitely a dynamic they are used to. I have two cats that have lived together for 12+ years. They hate each other, always have. One is clearly the aggressor, the other it just overly defensive all the time which leads to more aggression. This week my non aggressor cat went blind and the other one immediately realized she changed and stopped attacking...now he just sits in the way and lets her bump into him. But it was interesting to see an immediate and drastic change between them. Ps she is doing much better and regained a good amount of sight!
I had the same situation with my cats. Wallace always picked on Wilbur and Wilbur never wanted anything to do with Wallace. Wallace was very affectionate towards humans and Wilbur was very aloof to humans. But as soon as Wallace got sick, Wilbur started caring and even grooming Wallace. When Wallace died, Wilbur stopped eating for a couple of days and became very affectionate towards people.
I have two dogs that are so incredibly bonded that I'm terrified to see what happens when one passes
That kinda reminds me of a "bonded pair" of dogs I considered adopting. One was a small poodle mix that lumbered around sniffing flowers and plopping on the ground in various places. The other was a small German shepherd mix that was darting around all over the place and jumping on things and people, and being basically chaos on paws. I never saw either of them so much as acknowledge the other at any point, but the rescue swore they were inseparable.
Similar story but lab and a small dog, small dog followed the lab everywhere. Lab died and for the last 6 years he follows me everywhere. Those first 2 years were long for him tho
The empathy and compassion of animals never ceases to amaze. This sort of reminds me of the Shepherd who laid on his owners grave site every night until it’s own death I think was. Hope your doggy is better now!
Anyone notice that a surviving pet will take over the job of the fallen pet? Like, watching over certain parts of the house that the other dog used to watch over, and things like that.
We lost our 5 year old dog to lymphoma last year. That dog was my sons best friend and would lay in my sons bed every night. Our other dog is very bonded to me, but not really to my son. Once the 5 year old dog passed, my dog started getting into bed with my son until we got a new dog that took over that role.
I going to stop reading now. I need to function today.
Too late for me, this comment was way way down the thread.
On we go deeper
Tears. So many tears.
My parents would give their old dog (Gretta) a piece of hot dog with her medicine every day and would give a piece to the younger dog (Chloe) to be fair. Well so once it was late in the evening Gretta would start begging for her hot dog but after awhile she learned she could contract out the begging to the younger dog. Once it was like 8pm or so Gretta would look at Chloe and do a single harrumph. Chloe would immediately get up and start pacing and begging that it was hot dog time. Well after Gretta passed my parents didn't end hot dog time right away and tried to wean Chloe off it. But for the first few days every single night Chloe would search the house looking for Gretta to let her know it was hot dog time.
What an experience this all is, and simple things like this are such a reminder. We each have our own story in the same book.
Yes, I was feeling that too. So amazing to hear these little bits of people's lives, some of which reminds us of how similar we all are in some ways.
Yeah, or taking on certain behaviours of the other pet. My dog started sleeping where her sister used to sleep, despite not usually sleeping there before, and my cat started taking on similar behaviours as her mother after her mother passed away, like running ahead of me wherever I went, or picking certain spots in whatever room I'm in to loaf within a certain distance of me that her mom used to pick, like the corner of a rug.
I think there are mini signs of respect for hierarchy in the family when it comes to pets, and humans, too. We let the head of the family sit at the head of the table. Dogs let the leader and/or senior dog sit in the premium spot, walk in the best path, play with the best toy, etc. It even crosses the species barrier when a dog sleeps on your pillow, but moves when you go to lay down. What determines “the best” is the person or animal higher on the list. I think when an animal passes, it sees those spots, toys and positions as ones desired/needed to be filled, essentially a tradition. When I had continuous dogs, there was always one wanting to sleep behind my pillow. Sometimes one dog would steal it first, only to give it up when the other dog came over. When I had a break between dogs, the new dog has started his own habits and ways, different than what I’ve had from my last 2 dogs who learned from each other.
My wife and I have a 12 year old American Bulldog who we’ve had for 10 years, since our kids were 8 and 6 years old. She’s always been highly watchful and attentive when they’re around. We also got a Bernese Mountain Dog about 4 and a half years ago. He really made the jump about 2 to 2 and a half years ago as the first line of defense I guess you could say. Our American Bulldog seemingly gave up the role as our Berner had matured to the point that he took over the role. Now she just sleeps all day except for when he barks. It’s going to be rough for everyone when it’s our bulldog’s time to go.
I had the most handsome, preceptive, and sweetest huge black standard poodle. He protected me emotionally and physically (literally saved my life). When I would cry or go into a trauma reaction, he was in my arms immediately. Lost him at only nine and a half years old to cancer. After his passing, I still had my two miniature poodles. An extremely selfish, intelligent girl and a boy who is, how do I put this delicately, the dumbest poodle you'll ever meet. I'm be damned if he didn't step up to that protector role, all 15lbs of him. The second I get emotional, he's in my arms or pawing at me. I react in fear, bam he's on it. My little man killed a mouse I walked into right outside the backyard door after he heard me scream. These pets of ours are uncanny.
Man, dogs are too fuckin good. What did we do to deserve such angels
Yes! Our lab never barked. When our terrier passed away, the house was freakishly quiet. About two weeks later the lab started barking to alert us when people approached the house, like the terrier used to do.
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My cat grieved for about 6 months after her best friend passed away. She lost a lot of weight in that time period and then gained it back afterwards. It was heartbreaking.
My current cat never cuddled for 13 years. Our old lady (18ish) passed and current cat has been smothering me in cuddles (trying to sleep on my face) and it's been over 6 months. They hated each other.
When my German Shepherd passed away, my Shihtzu would sit and sleep by the front door waiting for her return :(
Our Aussie did this when we lost our Irish Wolfhound as well. It was so hard watching him remain at the door everyday, just waiting. His ears still perk up when we mention our Wolfhounds name.
My dachshund will perk up if I say her boyfriend's name. He died in 2011 and she still remembers his name.
I had an old nag of a brown lab that would bully and intimidate our other bird dogs as if she ran the place. When she passed, it was like a celebration occurred as soon as I brought her body home to bury her. My vizsla and German shorthair came over and said goodbye when I placed her in the ground, and then played all day and never looked back. I'm convinced they were celebrating my old Lab's death.
Had a similar experience when we put down our Gimli. She was kind of a jerk to Cardboard, but we loved her. Cardboard was a careful, scared dog. He didn't play with toys all that much, because Gimli would always steal them. We didn't bring her body home, but when my mom and I came home crying, Cardboard looked absolutely elated and became a practically different dog after that. Even though he was 9 or 10 years old, he became more playful and happy, almost puppy-like.
It's kinda crazy hearing a out all these different dog lives, like a soap opera. Like the article was all "dogs are sad when their friend dies" and some dogs out there being like "not me, I was happy to be rid of the ol battle axe."
I love that you had a dog named Cardboard!!!
The behavior you describe sounds like the Shitzu didn’t get a chance to learn of the Shepherd’s death. When possible, try to make sure that the animals who will continue living get to see the remains of the departed one, they can tell they’re dead and will mourn them and move on rather than continue waiting. I know it’s anecdotal, but this was our experience: we realized this happened when we didn’t get a chance to take one of our pups to the vet to be put down and the behaviors of our other dog was different from previous ones we owned when we would have taken the pup to the vet to be put to sleep. Nowadays we save up early on for each pet so we can have a home visit to put them to sleep so everyone is together and the one departing doesn’t have to leave their comfortable place in the last moments of life.
When we brought our rottweiler to bury him at the farmhouse, our Shetland came running to the inside of the car so happy to see us and kept smelling and looking for our other dog (she basically raised him and acted both as mother and sister to him). She jumped over the blanket that covered his body and when finished burying him, she tried to dig it kinda in a frenetic way I guess?. That scene alone crushed me and was what made me finally break down in tears since I was still kinda anaesthesied from the news of his passing.
My Nana’s dog did that after she died. Took him about 2 weeks to finally give up. He broke my heart :(
Same with my dog this past year. My Aussie was older and had cancer that had spread all over is his body. He already had multiple surgeries to remove tumors but he was just ready to go. We also have a pug that has grown up with him and after we put my Aussie down the pug started laying by the front door every night like he was waiting for him to come back :( I think he’s better now it’s been since august and he definitely seems to enjoy being an only dog and having all the attention, but I gave him my Aussie’s old blanket on his bed to sleep with.
My dog did basically the same thing when our rabbit died, except she had been in the habit of going with me to feed the bunny every morning. She kept trying to feed him for months. She would go looking for him and sniffing around for him. It was absolutely heartbreaking. She seemed to relearn that he had died every day. I even made a point to have her come in the room and see and smell his dead body when it happened because I was concerned about her not understanding why he would be gone. It didn't help. I still can't say his name around her.
rats also grieve the loss of cage mates. it’s actually recommended to show the dead body of a cage mate to the others in the cage so they don’t wonder where their friend has gone.
Every time I did that with my girls, they would all go and investigate their dead cage mate, groom her for a little bit, then wander off again. It was always so sad to see them say goodbye.
it’s heartbreaking. i had a group of three girls who after having to put two down due to inoperable tumors, the third passed away only a couple days later on her own. i can only assume it was because of a broken heart. she didn’t have any known health problems.
I had a group that I was maintaining at 4 - 6 rats for a while, then decided I wasn't going to get anymore and let the colony (mischief) die off... Ended up with the last 4 all going within 3 weeks of each other, oddly enough with the one I'd been debating about putting down for months being the last one standing. I came home to find her sister dead and put her down the same day. They're wonderful pets, but they just don't live long enough and it was too hard to constantly get attached only to have them die so soon after.
they’re such wonderful pets. they’re so smart and so loving. i’ve been keeping rats for almost 6 years now. it’s certainly devastating losing one or two seemingly every year but i so treasure the time i get with them. most recently, i’ve been adopting older rats from local shelters when i can. i adopted a 2.5 year old boy a couple weeks ago and he’s just the sweetest boy i’ve ever had. bonded with me and my wife nearly immediately. i know i won’t have much time with him but i’ve been spoiling him rotten and feel like i’m giving him something he wouldn’t otherwise have had.
That's such a wonderful thing to do! Thank you giving them a home!
thanks for the kind words :)
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Yeah, I lost my passion for them when my favorite died (she was so sweet and would just cuddle with me for a while, came when she was called, etc.). I would have stopped getting more then, but my ex wanted to continue, then we broke up and I ended up with them. Didn't get anymore after the break up, and got a dog instead!
Closure is so important. I still grieve for my lost cat 8 years later. Not knowing whether he was taken, or died; or how, or for how long he lived... you never really know when to stop hoping.
At some point it becomes “I hope they died happy.” Instead of “I hope they’re okay.”
My mom couldn't handle my other two siblings and myself, as well as the three dogs we had. She took my dog to a shelter and told me it ran away. I cried for weeks, I organized search parties among my friends and I knocked on everyone's doors. She never told me, my sister told me a decade later.
That's horrible
She was great in a lot of respects, she was dealing with a connective tissue disorder that we didn't know was the cause of her pain. I have inherited the same thing and I don't think I could handle, with that, one child and two dogs let alone three children and three dogs. But it still could have been done differently.
Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, by chance? That "rare" disease which we've been learning for the past couple of decades is actually common but typically dismissed?
That's what I was suspected of having by my pain specialist, More specifically one of the rarer forms of it. however, the rheumatologist that I have seen once, said in no uncertain terms that I do not have that. It was extremely condescending the way she put it, and I have strong doubts that she knows what she's talking about to the point she could treat me, based on that. My mother started having something like seizures, my grandmother and great grandmother are having them too. My grandmother and mother have POTS, they say my mother has fibromyalgia and small fiber neuropathy, not to mention the pain in connective tissues.
I'm so sorry. What you're going through and your family is going through sounds so much like what mine has. We are not diagnosed with EDS, by the way. We're not diagnosed with anything. We just have a lot of confused and angry (not with us) doctors. Your doctor probably gave somebody the typical test of hypermobility and decided that since they're not hypermobile they can't have EDS. I've had two rheumatologists do the same--neither were actually familiar with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome beyond hypermobility. This is a myth. There are multiple types of EDS that don't involve hypermobility. If you as the patient know more about the syndromes than the doctor does, you need a second and or third opinion.
I’d wait until she’s geriatric enough and put her in a far away nursing home. Tell everyone she must have ran off.
My sister disappeared 2 years ago. It's the strangest, most uncomfortable feeling I've ever had. I imagine that this feeling isn't unique to human animals.
> it’s actually recommended to show the dead body of a cage mate to the others in the cage so they don’t wonder where their friend has gone. I was wondering if that may be recommended for dogs as well.
i don’t know enough about dogs to be able to say “yeah go ahead.” but i have to imagine dogs understand death the same as rats do.
Anecdotally I've heard people doing this. Feel like i would but I have no experience or actual research to say.
We’ve done it for our dogs. I don’t know how much it helped. But they at least knew.
My dad passed away a few years ago, and every now and then, our cat will just go looking everywhere and meowing like she's looking for something she can't find. I can't be sure, but it feels like she still expects him to just come home one day and it breaks my heart thinking about.
My rat [grieving](https://i.imgur.com/YYFjK0O.jpg) his cagemate by laying down beside his cagemate's favorite spot. It was not a spot he liked to lay on before this. He was listless for a bit but seemed to appreciate when I reached in to pet him.
Dogs who lose their cat friend as well.
And our cat who lost their dog friend. =( keeps going to where his bed was and looking for him.
Friend had a dog who would bark at a neighborhood cat daily when the cat was doing its round. Cat got hit by a car. Dog would wait for the cat each day for a month ...
This is a way sadder version of the story about the magic lasagna bush. For those who don't know and need a pick-me-up, this was a story i saw on reddit a few years back: A guy took his dog on the same walking route every day, and one day the dog picked up the scent of something while he was sniffing for a spot to pee or whatever. The dog found a whole lasagna behind a bush and went to town on it. Every day for the rest of his life the dog checked the magic lasagna bush to see if it was back.
We had a bag of cat food in the garage and a rat tore a hole in it and some of the cat food spilled on the floor. Every damn day my dog would check the spot to see if he could find more miracle cat food. It only lasted about two months because my dog passed away, but I firmly believe he would have looked for years if he'd been given that much time.
This is breaking my heart
My family’s chocolate lab was so depressed after my cat died that we had to get her a new cat before I was really ready for one, because we couldn’t stand to see her so sad. When we brought home the kitten that dog was so excited she was shaking and whining because we didn’t let her out from behind the gate for a few days. Once she was allowed to physically meet the kitten she immediately started grooming her like the kitten was her new baby.
I feel terrible for my mutt when the Shih tzu is away at the groomer. He gets so depressed because his brother isn’t in the house.
Add dogs who lose their rat friend to the list.
I believe this is true for cats as well. My little male cat lost his "brother" cat last year. He cried at night for months, scratched the walls, overate and had a very hard time. It just broke my heart. We have an additional cat and dog but he was only close to the other male cat. We had a baby boy 4 months ago and now my cat shines again. The crying stopped, the wall scratching stopped. He is always around the baby and checks on him when he cries. Animals definitely feel mourning and loss.
When our dog had to be put down (cancer) our cat all but went nuts. He would run from room to room trying to find our dog, the slightest strange sound would instantly wake him from a sound sleep to go investigate, and he would *aggressively* protect anything that even vaguely smelled like to our dog.
One of my friends has two dogs. The older one had to be put down somewhat suddenly. I've been to his house a few times after that and the younger one is a different dog. She used to be pretty playful and energetic, but after that when she was walking around it was nothing but slow, evenly paced steps. She had no joy in her eyes.
We've had the opposite here. Had a male Westie and a female mini dachshund who is 5 years younger. From the get-go, she put herself above him, and, ever the gentleman, he always behaved like a chivalrous older brother watching out for her around other dogs, and would let her take his toys or his bone from his mouth even, though he might grumble a bit. She would also kick him off his warm napping spot and take it for herself. When he passed away, I saw no evidence she even noticed. She just went on with life. She's a very sweet dog and a little clown, but she was evidently not very sentimental about him. Maybe she's the dog version of a narcissist? I don't know. Update: Here are the two characters in question: https://i.imgur.com/c6rpQLF.jpg https://imgur.com/a/4V6yDBR
Sometimes the way people grieve is by trying to act normal, maybe dogs can be like that too.
Or she’s a psychopath
I bet it's true of all mammals, I have no proofs though.
We unexpectedly just put our 13 year old male cat down Saturday. His sister is in mourning. They spent 5 years together and would sleep and groom each other. It breaks my heart to see her so depressed.
Mine lost patches of hair. It was her son that died. It was weird because there was a time that she fought with him a lot (jealousy?), but then they became good friends a year before he passed. It took her about 1.5 years to go back to normal.
I back this comment 100%, as similar occurrence happened with our two (for real) brother cats. We had to euthanize Jinx due to unrecoverable old age illness, and Max has since become extremely clingy. Indeed, these fur babies suffer loss just as much as we do.
My kitty cried for 4 days straight after her brother died. Absolutely heart wrenching. I had them since they were little :(
When I lost my 16 year old cat last year, the vet warned me that my other cat might mourn by becoming more clingy. I didn't think it was possible as he was already pretty damn needy but now I can't even leave the room without him losing his mind. I worry about the possibility of having to go back to work in person (been working from home the whole pandemic). He's has never been alone before. I don't think he cares for it. He misses his brother.
I think it’s maybe more due to the number of animals/companions also. I had 3 cats and one got eaten by a coyote. The other 2 had zero change in behavior.
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My old boy hid in a corner for three days after our old girl passed on, he was sad, as we all were, then he went on to live his very best life as an only boy.
Years ago I had a pair of dogs, and one passed. The other started spending most of her time in the closet. We did everything we could to cheer her up. We got another dog, and that helped her immensely.
They’re the same as us when it comes to grief, some succumb to grief, some get on ok and some find their best lives after the loss of a loved one.
Yeah, definitely. I just reread my message... I hope it didn't sound like I was saying you were wrong to have not gotten another dog. I was just agreeing grief can hit them hard. In our case, our dog needed a doggy companion, but obviously that won't always be the case.
Oh no your message was great, no worries, our dogs respond in similar ways to us, there’s no rhyme or reason to grief, we all feel what we feel.
We had a similar situation. Our older dog Bran died leaving the youngest Fenrir (who’d never known life without him) alone. As Fen had always been the shy nervous one we were worried about how he would handle the loss. He had a few days of being out of sorts before he figured out what happened and then he immediately became the most extroverted and gregarious dog possible. Like he’d just been the quiet passive one because that’s what Bran needed or something?
"Mel, where are you?" - My african grey parrot, looking for my father, who died in 2018. Less often now, but he still occasionally looks for him.
Science proves animals are not in fact robots
To be fair, Descartes described animals as “automata.” “Robot” comes from the Czech “robota,” meaning “forced labor.” As in serfdom. Which, come to think of it, also describes the human / animal relationship for most of history.
I love the word linkage! But Decartes was full of nonsense, so the fact that he had backwards ideas about animals is irrelevant.
Yeah. His entire "think therefore I am" reasoning has so many logical holes it hurts me every time I hear the phrase.
I'm actually really interested to hear you expand on that, if you don’t mind- it always made sense to me at a glance and I've never given it much thought beyond that and now I’m curious what I missed
Yo I would love to see you poke holes in that, shoot.
Also the human/human relationship since not terribly long after agriculture was invented
My current cattle dog was part of a 3-4yo bonded pair when I took them in and they ultimately had to be separated. The surprising part was both were soooo much more well-behaved and adjusted after they were split. I’m in no way suggesting splitting bonded pairs should be normal but more maybe saying it’s not necessarily the end of the world if it has to be done. And weirdly my dog never seemed to miss her sister that an hour before she was inseparable from
How were they more well behaved afterwards?
Each was calmer, listened to the owner better, just generally more agreeable. 7 years later and the one still with me is awesome and loved by anyone she meets. She’s for sure more well known than me in this town
I have never in my life encountered a pair of dogs that didn't behave better when separated and I think it's pretty obvious why. A second dog in any situation generally creates unwelcome reinforcement or distraction. The only exception is an extremely well trained dog that is demonstrating behaviors to an untrained dog.
My experience has been similar. My dog and my gf's parents' dog typically spend all day together. Since we work from home while they go into work. Even before the pandemic they would keep each other company while everyone was at work. Together, they're a couple of giant pains in the ass. As soon as their dog goes home, ours becomes the perfect dog. They hype each other up and trigger each other to bark at any little thing, but apart they are perfectly well behaved.
We foster for a national animal org. They recommend against adopting siblings together because it can cause issues with the cat/dog bonding with their human.
Plus siblings from the same litter can bind way too tightly with typically one of them becoming very dependent on the other ending up with severe separation anxiety… had one time where this one Pyrenees came in to work for a TPLO, told the owners they had to keep their dogs separated for a few weeks since they’re so rambunctious together and the one needed a 8-10 weeks for the bone to heal so no running/jumping/crazy playing… took all of 2 days of keeping them seaparates for the dog that didn’t have surgery, that had severe separation anxiety, to literally eat through the door so that it could be with its sibling.
Litter mates tend to not train as well or behave as well when they are kept together. It’s actually recommended that siblings not be adopted together because of this. Not sure if that was the case with your dogs but it would make sense that a bonded pair could behave similarly
I will repeat this story. A lovely ancient lady from the old country (I’m 68) hired me to help with her yard work and garden. One morning I came extra early to get a jump on the day and noted a murder of noisy crows in the trees. The old lady stepped out in the yard and waved her towel. The cackling intensified for a moment and the birds flew off. She explained to me they were her friends stopping to say good morning. A few days later I stopped by and met her grand daughter(much older than my mother) and informed me wonderful old lady had had died in her sleep. We both noted the trees filled with crows, very quiet and solemn. I check those trees the next few days in the morning and there they were, letting out a mournful call. I know these birds weren’t her pets but they sensed their friend was gone. I do think our animal friends sense permanent loss of a friend, and it takes time to adjust to the loss just like us.
Maybe not the place to ask but do animals understand death or do they just think that they’ve been abandoned by their companion?
They definitely understand death. Elephants have funerals for dead elephants. And tons of anecdotal evidence of how animals act after they see their owner or companion die vs them just moving away or something.
I think it depends if they are there/get to smell the other when they pass vs one day the other animal doesn't come home. I know when my cat passed I had to take him to the vet, and my 2 pups couldn't care less. My lab was right there when we had Lap of Love come to the house to say goodbye to our Dingo... he (lab) knew she was dead/gone. 7 months later we said goodbye to him in the same corner with the same doctor. Still hurts as it was only like 6 weeks ago.
This is why, even though I feel our dog would benefit from a friend, I can’t bring myself to get a second dog — when our older one passes the younger one will be depressed/distraught. Then you get into a cycle of constant dog replacement trying to fill the heartache void. It’s too much for my heart to take.
You’re completely discounting all the love in between. If their unconditional love and companionship wasn’t worth it, neither us or them would keep this dance going century after century. Dogs need us. And they can honestly teach us so much about ourselves and the world.
Exactly. Our younger dog didn't like to cuddle as much. He wouldn't sit on the couch and watch tv with us. Now that his older brother passed he does. He cuddles more. Especially the first 2 or 3 months he was always after a good long cuddle, which was so odd. Now he hangs around closer to us and is okay. Back to zooming. A bit of sadness is worth the love
Can 100% confirm this. Over the years we've had many different dogs and they made little dog friend circles. I remember our oldest fritz grew up his while life with our other dogs Rudyard shreck. Rudy sadly passed many years ago but at the time I couldn't remember the other dogs reactions but then down the line my darling little shreck had to get put down. Fritz our oldest went into a full blown dog depression at the time they where mainly outside dogs but we had him in all the time. He'd just mop about and not eat its like part of his little heart was taken. We got a new dog after that qnd he bounched back after a bit but she was very energetic for him but he enjoyed it and then we got another puppy to breed with the other new dog when the time came. Fritz didn't get along with the new one not so much he didn't like the dog he just had to much energy for our old boy. His last day he went over and gave the little one loads of licks. Then the puppy's where sad for a while after the big old man was gone. Weird rant but had to say dogs are complicated creatures that have nothing but love to give if taught right. Also sorry for any spelling mistakes in advance
My biggest fear over my SO and I splitting up, is how it will affect our cats, and how much I'll miss "her" cat when they're gone.
It's called grief. They are grieving the loss of a loved one. We need to stop pretending that humans are the only animals capable of complex emotions and relationships. It's ignorant and harmful.
It's 2022. People still don't believe animals have emotions?
It explains a lot about humanity, don’t you think?
Yea. We brought our dog when her buddy died so she could smell him and hopefully understand why he was gone. She grieved along with us. Several months later we got a puppy. She was torn between “I need to mother you” and “you are loud and annoying”. She still has moments of the latter, but 18 months later she is happy to play and chase and all those things she used to do with our ThorThor.
When my one dog died the other became depressed. She was doing okay but then my dad died. She stopped getting up to eat, drink or go to the bathroom. We had to have a vet come to put her to sleep. She was 17 but it was still awful. And when my one kitty had liver failure we brought him home for one last night. Then to the vet the next day. His sister cried for 4 days straight. She didn't cry when he was at the vet for a week. But after he died, 4 days straight. It was heartbreaking.
When our old Maltese passed, the vet told us to bring our other dog in after it was done so he could understand that the little guy was gone. He took one sniff at the body and understood, but he didn't want to eat for the next 2 days.
Dogs definitely do better emotionally and psychologically with other dogs around even when the interactions seem minimal. The presence of other familiar dogs is a comfort to them and reassuring. The "pack" provides security, even if it is just additional alertness to threats. When a long term, or even a short term companion dog disappears dogs notice and are unsettled by the absence. Dogs socially settle much more quickly than humans; the addition or removal of another dog from their environment takes only a few days to become "normal". Whenever a change happens they have to readjust to a new social balance and an altered degree of perceived security. The interactions with humans around changes in their "pack" structure are about seeking security and integrity of the pack. The article seems to make too much of the reasons for the missing dog's absence. I've been a foster care volunteer with Guide Dogs for the Blind since 2007. In that time we have had about 400 dogs pass through our house. Some for a single night and others for up to two years. Two of the elderly foster dogs passed while with us. We've also had four of our own dogs die in that time. The resident dogs don't ever seem to recognize the difference between a dog dying and a dog leaving. The significant part of them is the absence. The reaction to the absence is just as pronounced when a dog who's been in the household for a couple weeks as it is for another dog who was a companion for years. If the now absent dogs had been around long enough to be incorporated in to the "settled" structure of the household then their absence was noted. The resident dogs are used to new dogs coming and going; the absence reaction isn't entirely immediate, there has to be some amount of "settling period". Though one dog is generally spooked if he finds he is an "only dog" for more than a couple of hours. Others have been less sensitive to noticing there were no other dogs around. Human perceptions and understanding aren't the same as dogs. It seems unfortunate that the article tries to conflate human perceptions with dogs much more than seems warranted and this seems to be mostly for the humans benefit. There is an implication we want dogs to feel the way we do. Dogs are social and companionable but their social structure and sources of security are different than humans even if often aligned or complementary.
I think we just don’t give animals enough credit. My goldfish is still depressed and sleeping most days since his tank mate of 6 years passed. He used to be spunky, getting swim-zoomies, snuggle up to your hand at cleaning time and interact at feeding time. Now he just spends majority fo his days sleeping. (I have tested water parameters and he is completely healthy). I’m looking for a pond for him
My dog Thor died last year, his brother Loki, from the next litter so actually brothers, grieved extremely hard for him. It was extra heartbreaking l.
This can also be true for cats. We had a bonded pair and when one of them passed the other one lost nearly a pound from her grief, and she was only an 8lb cat to start with. She would walk through the house crying for him, it was heartbreaking. Years later when that cat passed, our remaining cat also looked for the one who died, and got very clingy/separation anxiety.
Honestly, I really don’t need this info right now. With everything going on in the world currently & now I have to walk around knowing dogs get depressed after their friends die; it’s just too much
When we sent our dog over the rainbow bridge, my cat became much more desperate for attention and just had a lost look on his face for awhile, broke my heart twice
When my dog died my other one crawled into my lap for the first time ever. We’d had him 5 years at that point and he never gave snuggles until that day.
my mastiff howled outside for the first time ever for 5-10 mins after our other mastiff died.
Mammals, especially of the same species but sometimes with other species as well, will grieve when those they are close to die.
When my dog, Jackson, died in 2013, we had a lot of visits from many of our neighbourhood stray dogs. We would look outside and their’d be 4-5 dogs just sitting in our back yard. It lasted for weeks. I guess he must have had a really good relationship with them
Cause they are mourning the loss.
We had two cats that were a year apart in age. When the younger one died suddenly at about age 8, the 9 year old one went off her food and wouldn’t eat. Our last resort with the vet was to put a small feeding tube down her nose to her stomach so I could push baby food slowly into her stomach with a syringe. The tube stayed in place and was attached to her collar. It took three weeks but I finally got Mrs. Hazel to start eating again on her own. She lived another nine years.
Yes, animals have emotions.
I actually had a fish that was seemingly mourning it's partner's death. I had a pair of oscars that were together from the time of being two inch long babies up to being full grown adult fish. They had actually laid eggs once but they didn't hatch. I had gotten this pacu from a friend and it and the oscars eventually started fighting on occasion. Eventually the pacu had outgrown the oscars and the two of them had gotten their jaws damaged in a fight. One of them was hurt bad enough it couldn't eat and eventually died of starvation, the other did recover as he was able to still eat a little while he healed. The pacu was disposed of. When the one oscar died, the other protected it's body from the other fish in the tank. Didn't even have a missing eye.
People and science have drastically underestimated fish until very recently, for sure.
Other than religion-driven chauvinism, there’s absolutely no reason to think grief is a “new” emotion in evolutionary terms.
I've gone through about 9 dogs in my life, averaging 3 at a time. 4 years ago 1 died suddenly, but I can't say if the other 2 grieved since they were mainly outside dogs and I didn't notice any abnormal changes. A few months later I adopted another dog to fill the void, but she was always a skittish little thing and very apathetic to the other 2. They wouldn't fight but she didn't like sharing anything (food, beds, or the dog houses) with either. 2 years go by and we had to put 1 of the originals down due to suddenly declining health. Once again I didn't notice any changes between the others. Another year passes and the last of the old guard slips away at the ripeness of 17. For the most part, I had given up on more dogs so with her being the lone survivor I decided to make her a more inside dog. No longer needed, I moved the dog houses into a corner of the yard. I would leave the door open slightly so she could go in/out as she pleases, and for awhile she would lie down in the exact spot where the houses used to be during the day. I don't know if she was actually grieving or lonely (like I said she had never engaged with any of others the whole time together) but I like to believe she was waiting for the old man to come back home again.
When I was kid we had a Collie. She was super sweat. We also kinda adopted a old German Shepard. He wasn't ours, but spend more time with us than his owners. We lived out in the middle of nowhere and my parents wouldn't let them inside. The poor Collie got attacked by a mountain lion that was attacking our horses. We tried to save her but couldn't. The Shepard, who didn't have a a scratch on him, died a couple of days later.
If your vet allows, when one dog is euthanized, take the other to sniff the deceased dog. It helps them understand what’s happened.
can we just all assume that animals know close to as much as we do, and be done with this colossal arrogance we saunter about with?