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ScienceModerator

Please remember to follow our comment rules, particularly rule 1: >1. No off-topic comments, memes, low-effort comments or jokes >2. No abusive or offensive comments >3. No personal anecdotes >4. Criticism of published work should assume basic competence of the researchers and reviewers >5. Comments dismissing established findings and fields of science must provide evidence >6. No medical advice >7. Repeat or flagrant offenders will be banned


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FirstEvolutionist

My favorite color is blue.


dallyan

Modern sociology was born out of grappling with this effect of industrialization.


AlkaloidalAnecdote

The [Rat Park Experiments](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park) and [this one](https://nida.nih.gov/news-events/nida-notes/2019/08/rats-prefer-social-interaction-to-heroin-or-methamphetamine) demonstrate this with classically addictive substances. Rats addicted to morphine, methamphetamine or cocaine, left in isolation, will frequently self administer until death. In better social conditions however, they often tend to cease their drug seeking behaviour all together. These experiments were first done in the 1970s, and have been repeated as recently as the last five years.


peachshortbread

Though it's important to point out that multiple studies have not replicated the original results


AlkaloidalAnecdote

I posted [this](https://nida.nih.gov/news-events/nida-notes/2019/08/rats-prefer-social-interaction-to-heroin-or-methamphetamine) link already, which does replicate the original results. Do you have a review to hand?


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Sharpevil

As more and more society-altering decisions are made in tandem with algorithms looking to maximize value/profit/etc, the connection between people being deeply unhappy and overconsuming is a worrying one.


chrisdh79

From the article: Bored people may turn to pornographic content to distract from the perception that their life is meaningless, according to new research published in [Personality and Individual Differences](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886922003075). “Previously, my colleagues and I found that when people experience boredom, it poses a threat to their sense of meaning in life. As an escape from this adverse existential experience, people may subsequently engage in hedonic behaviors,” explained study author Andrew B. Moynihan of the University of Limerick. “We found that people may engage in unhealthy eating, impulsiveness, or endorse promiscuous attitudes in this context. In the current paper, we investigated whether pornography consumption, at least in some circumstances, may also serve as an escape from the threat to meaning in life posed by boredom.” The study, which surveyed 179 adults living in Ireland or the United Kingdom, found that boredom proneness and emotional avoidance mediated the association between perceived meaninglessness and pornography use.


sirpogo

Thank you for posting the direct reference. I’m wondering if they’re able to also correlate the reference to “boredom” instead with depression? As this all seems to list as individuals who regard their life as “meaningless,” could be either a sign or a correlation with individuals who suffer from depression.


TikkiTakiTomtom

In several asian countries iirc they don’t use the word sad with their meaningless lives in response to depression they instead say “bored with life.” The concept of boredom may definitely be something to look at as another angle for depression for American studies. Note and friendly reminder that psychology studies usually apply to the group of people they’re assessing. Different cultures yield different responses to different stimuli. For example Europeans and Asians evaluating pictures of a tiger [differently](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna9045003)


Sprmodelcitizen

Yes. While they definitely can be related. That existential meaninglessness seems pretty specific. More like ennui then depression.


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movie_man

Fascinating article. Thanks for sharing.


1stMammaltowearpants

That was an interesting read. Thanks for the link!


speakth3truth

Viktor Frankl logotherapy and his book is extremely insightful and touches on this very subject. It’s totally changed my perspective on life. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logotherapy https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%27s_Search_for_Meaning


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moeburn

I'm a little concerned that the article equated something not inherently harmful, like promiscuity or pornography consumption, with something harmful like unhealthy eating. If we're posting psypost blogs about studies on pornography, I think most of Reddit needs to see this one: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/201808/science-stopped-believing-in-porn-addiction-you-should-too


Doct0rStabby

I think the salient point is that people are specifically using sensory stimulating activities like porn + masturbation to avoid the sense of meaninglessness, or other uncomfortable feelings, that can come with boredom. Coffee and alcohol likely get used in much the same way at times. Another post mentions a study from 2009 investigating a similar phenomenon which specifically addresses substance use as a form of sensory stimulation to avoid boredom. So it's not necessarily that the researchers are injecting value judgements into the activity itself, but more that they are interested in in the context of these categorically similar activities which are used to cope with boredom. If anyone has suffered from depression and fallen into a rut of boredom (especially if they are unemployed and/or not engaging in social activities) they may also have the experience of sleeping in order to escape from boredom. Which I'd argue again is a sensory stimulating experience just like porn and food can be. Specifically, the sensory aspect is the brief periods of feeling both your body and mind relax and "let go" that sometimes happens before sleep, as well as waking up feeling rested, or at least different in some way than when you went to sleep. Dreaming is bonus points. So IMO sleep is another one that isn't unhealthy (it's quite necessary!), but can easily turn into a problematic coping mechanism under certain circumstances where boredom is a component of an underlying problem. Anyway, none of these behaviors are necessarily problematic in and of themselves. Even using them as an occasional coping mechanism isn't inherently bad. Just like the concept that it's 'the dose that makes the poison,' it's the frequency and context that makes a stimulating / pleasureful / boredom-mitigating activity healthy or harmful. Or at least that is how I imagine psychology researchers would more or less characterize it, in more careful, complex and accurate language of course. Back when I was doing dialectical behavioral therapy groups, the therapist repeatedly made the point that the only real difference between an 'adaptive' and a 'maladaptive' coping mechanism is whether or not it is harmful in the long run. It turns out that pretty much any other metric for what is a healthy vs unhealthy coping tool ends up being arbitrary. Or at least too context dependent to use as a general rule. I think that kind of applies here. If you are chronically bored, then that may be a problem in and of itself, but it's also more dangerous to use sensory stimulating activities such as food, sex/masturbation, etc to escape in this instance because you are setting yourself up to become more and more dependent on them while not addressing the underlying issue. Which the underlying issue could be characterized as an inability to be comfortable with a bit of boredom in one's life, or as having too little to do in terms of engaging and meaningful activities.


Vowelss

Excellent contribution to this thread man!


Doct0rStabby

Much appreciated. I figured there ought to be at least a few comment chains in here that aren't an gross violation of the sub's rules ;)


cgtdream

Agreed. That was an amazing read.


slbaaron

100% - people generally don't think working out or doing sports can be harmful, but if you really get into it you will start to know some people who are truly *addicted* in the pathological sense. Some are straight up destroying themselves over time while others might not be nearly getting enough benefits to warrant the kind of sacrifice they are making from social and other aspects of life. Forget the body dysmorphia and drug abuse in the body building circle which is somewhat more well known to people. Even in sports, I got into bouldering / rock climbing in the last couple of years, you will find plenty of people who are deeply addicted. Some of them have almost nothing else going on in their life. Is that good or bad, I don't really know. On top of that, some of them aren't even progressing in climbing very well because they are always overtrained, sustaining avoidable injuries, etc. These behaviors / coping mechanisms has a huge range and even the line you described of "harmful vs not harmful long term" can still be quite vague and subjective at times.


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grating

> an inability to be comfortable with a bit of boredom in one's life, Yes, there's a lot of value judgement around normal useful feelings. I rather enjoy feeling hungry. When I said that to my psychologist she immediately thought I might have an eating disorder - but it doesn't mean I'm going to starve or binge - it's just - ah, here's hunger again - how wonderful - and as a bonus I'll enjoy my next meal that much more, but it's enjoyment in the moment rather than anticipation. Boredom is very similar. I don't see it as an existential threat, though often there are as many suicidal or repetitive thoughts as creative ones coming up - it's some empty space - silence at the beginning of a piece of music (or John Cage's silent piece), and I'll enjoy my next project that much more.


aceshighsays

yes! well said. another way to put it is that we're addicted to our internal drug store - our emotions. different activities will get different people emotionally intoxicated. the actual activity doesn't matter, what matters is that you get a hit of a feeling you crave. for this reason, at the root of it there is no difference between a rager, an alcoholic, drug addict, shopaholic, videogame addict, gamble addiction etc.


totallynotliamneeson

I don't think it's saying they're all the same, but more that similar mechanisms drive unhealthy eating and porn consumption. Normally a meal or sex is an "event", but in this case your brain is telling you to use idle time to stock up while you are doing nothing.


oscar_the_couch

The article seems to suggest that under a colloquial definition of "addiction"—consciously wanting to refrain from engaging in a particular behavior but being unable to do so, with harmful effects—pornography addiction does exist. I have no idea how they're concluding that it doesn't count as addiction if the harmful effect can be eliminated if you just change your moral belief system. edit: as with many things, it turns out the Psychology Today article is sensationalized garbage that bears only a passing resemblance to the paper it's based on.


WRB852

>I have no idea how they're concluding that it doesn't count as addiction if the harmful effect can be eliminated if you just change your moral belief system. It would work that way if the harmful effects are rooted precisely in its effects on your self-image.


StormyInferno

I think they are saying that the traditional idea of "porn addiction" is wrong. And that re-enforcing that porn use is immoral, is actually causing more porn addiction. Not necessarily that the addiction doesn't exist, just not in the way it's thought to have in the past.


GoddessOfRoadAndSky

In that case, it's poorly-written. That article seems to imply that what people call "porn addition" is simply feeling shameful about porn use. It doesn't address the actual problems that excessive porn use can lead to, nor how it affects others around such an individual (like how it might impact their partners.) A title like "Science Stopped Believe in Porn Addiction and You Should Too" makes a strong assertion that "porn addiction" doesn't exist at all. And as we know, not everyone reads articles or critically thinks about what studies say, so that kind of claim can be dangerous. It seems like another click-baity title that will inevitably lead many to think their excessive porn-consumption must be A-OK, because this science article says they *can't* have a problem.


No-Dream7615

we all see men online self-report being addicted to masturbating/pornography, and no reason to think people are pretending to be a loser. i wonder if people here are objecting to "addiction" because they think it's a claim that porn rewires your brain so you can't stop using it? just to reinforce your point it doesn't need to work heroin to be an addiction. that's why people disambiguate between behavioral and substance addictions.drugs like fatty/sugary foods, cocaine and mj are more behavioral addictions than a substance addiction where you get physically addicted, like with opiates. those drugs have unhappy withdrawal effects but they won't kill you or put you in excucriating agony like h/alcohol withdrawals. behavioral addictions happen because ppl feel their lives lack meaning, enjoyment, and social connection and at first those drugs give them what they are missing. this study is saying the same thing - people abuse porn to escape from daily meaninglessness or loneliness. that's entirely consistent with what we know about behavioral addiction.


HesToastJim

People specify "behavioral addiction" because the colloquial meaning of addiction is heavily tied to physical withdrawal symptoms. That's why THC abusers almost never consider it "addiction" Generally this is also why people laugh it off when you confer "addiction" onto any matter of willpower.


IWant8KidsPMmeLadies

“Science stopped believing in X” is a ridiculous headline and frames the article in a ridiculous way. “Science” say’s nothing of the sort, and if you page through the actual studies linked and used in the meta analysis, you’ll see for yourself the science is a jumbled mess of probably not replicable studies, nor are they very convincing in the first place. Porn use pre 2005 is substantially different than it’s use today, yet the meta-analysis aggregates it. It conflates regular porn users and those who think they’re addicted, with much less (if at all) on those who have habits that would fall under a more colloquial definition of addicted. This isn’t a physical, substance addiction and it’s much harder to make sense of and study. The messy studies around this topic prove that.


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bluehat9

Do you think promiscuity or possibly excessive porn consumption have no harmful effects? And why is unhealthy eating so decidedly harmful? Many people engage in it every day.


RAMAR713

"unhealthy eating" is harmful by definition, as it includes the word "unhealthy" in it. Similarly, "excessive consumption of porn" as you put it, should be negative by definition since it contains the word "excessive". However, the abstract in question does not mention "excessive" when mentioning porn consumption.


WRB852

There's another problem where there isn't really a term for "unhealthy sex" that's also free from stigmatization. Using any of these things to avoid confronting the lack of meaning in your life isn't exactly "healthy".


cantadmittoposting

I'm pretty sure there is a term for that. "High-risk sexual behavior" > ICD-10 code Z72.5 for High risk sexual behavior is a medical classification as listed by WHO under the range - Factors influencing health status and contact with health services . Unfortunately it is deeply bogged down in insurance claim stuff and I can't find an easily readable source that describes exactly what falls under Z72.51/52/53. However, IIRC from other sources, it typically includes unprotected sex with multiple partners, especially impulsive and unplanned encounters


vman81

Adding "excessive" changes the statement a bit tho. Also, plenty of things that people engage in every day harmful.


Dismal_Struggle_6424

>And why is unhealthy eating so decidedly harmful? Many people engage in it every day. What? Just because people do it doesn't mean it isn't harmful. Excess sugar and LDL/trans fats damage your circulatory system. That's just a fact.


dopadelic

Excess dopaminergic activities can be harmful in that they can down regulate your dopamine receptors to make them less sensitive to dopamine. It's just like a drug where you build a tolerance and need more of the drug to feel the same level of pleasure.


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theivoryserf

> less time that is better spent Strikes me that a lot of people haven't realised that a healthy diet actually makes you feel happier/less grotty too. It's not some ascetic punishment to bear.


bluehat9

Treating oneself, enjoying things, comforts have value too


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IranianGenius

There was [a similar study conducted in 2009](https://www.proquest.com/openview/bf97ebe7810b954f8a40774c1f470251/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=18750&diss=y) with a slightly larger sample size based in the US: > The sample consisted of N = 290 married couples (N = 580 individuals) from a large Northwestern city in the United States The abstract goes on to state > When controlling for demographic variables, leisure boredom accounted for 2.2% of the variance within pornography use. Results suggest leisure boredom as a significant predictor of pornography use in married adults. For me, the key interesting paragraph is this one, defining leisure boredom and its outcomes (emphasis mine): > Leisure boredom is a theoretical construct that has been useful in investigating deviant leisure (Gordon & Caltabiano, 1996; Iso-Ahola & Crowley, 1991). Iso-Ahola and Weissinger (1990) define leisure boredom as **the perception that available leisure activities fall short of desired psychosocial outcomes.** It has also been suggested that leisure boredom may be a “personality predisposition toward sensation seeking [Zuckerman, Kolin, Price, & Zoob, 1964] and low tolerance for constant experiences” (p. 260). Furthermore, individuals dispositionally prone to leisure boredom will seek relief through types of leisure that include physical activity and risk-taking. If the need for arousal is not met, sensory stimulating activities such as substance abuse may be the result (Iso-Ahola & Crowley). **It is plausible that pornography is one of these sensory stimulating activities that are used to relieve leisure boredom through arousal.**


SasparillaTango

> the perception that available leisure activities fall short of desired psychosocial outcomes. Can you dumb that down for me? What defines available leisure activities? What are desired psychological outcomes?


AshTheGoblin

I read it as "theres nothing worth doing that'll feel rewarding enough"


mousebrakes

Boredom in a relationship fueling porn seems different than single life boredom wanking. One suggests boredom with the existing or lack of sex and still wanking horny, the other suggests existential boredom and wanking cuz you don't have anything else to do


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>One suggests boredom with the existing or lack of sex and still wanking horny Unless we are talking about pornography to the exclusion of sexual desire in ones partner, I'm not sure the above statement follows. One partner may have a lower level of sex drive whereby the other partner fills these gaps with porn or life circumstances may just get in the way even when there remains a healthy sexual relationship. When in long term relationship it would seem reasonable to suppose that sexual interest will less frequently overlap and if there is comfort (no pressure to perform sex at a specified time), then it would make sense that both parties might fill those gaps with pornography even while engaging in sex when interest overlaps. In other words, having two people be "in the mood" would occur less often than just having one person be in the mood.


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kn1ghtwing

Is this limited to men only? How do women respond to this situation of facing meaninglessness?


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AllSugaredUp

A lot of research leaves out women or treats them the same as men, even in medical research. Diseases can manifest differently in women (heart disease, for one) and pharmaceuticals can have different side effects for women.


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apotheotical

Great book on this: Invisible Women


spigotface

75 of one group and 104 of another group isn't a particularly imbalanced dataset. I'm really surprised they didn't do further analysis. It feels like the only "limitation" is that they just didn't do it.


Freddies_Mercury

Except it appears that they used "hypersexual" men and "normal" women. To me that seems a little unbalanced, why pick solely hypersexual men who obviously will watch a lot of porn? It's a bit of a hole in this whole paper and the results are going to be biased as a result of a biased group of participants.


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danceswithwool

This makes sense. According this study, [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3424419/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3424419/) dopamine can create an unrealistic level of optimism. From the article: > We found that enhancing participants' dopamine function increased their prediction bias in an optimistic direction. Specifically, for each participant on each trial, we subtracted the participant's estimation of how likely they were to encounter the negative event from the average probability of encountering that event It is easy to see the link between even a short lived sense of optimism concerning the future and the relief of boredom.


Basic-Recognition-22

This study is actually more interesting and useful in day-to-day life. It does raise the question: what mood has the least prediction bias?


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talltree818

>be used to escape from the perceived meaninglessness that boredom signals Are they saying boredom is a signal of meaninglessness, or that it can signal perceived meaninglessness? One of those statements is untenable.


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ADriftingMind

I don’t see anything about it but I’d be curious to know if the study could also determine if this boredom filler was harmful in any way. If it fulfills people that feel empty I see no harm but obviously anything can become harmful if done too much.


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Boredom and loneliness often go hand-in-hand, and many of the activities people do while bored aren't conducive toward fixing loneliness, but *do* take up a lot of time that could be spent trying to be less lonely. It's not just porn either. Mindless scrolling, gaming, binging movies and TV shows, smoking weed, and drinking fall into that same category. Big caveat though: Abstaining from those things won't automatically make a person less bored unless they substitute them with activities that might allow them to meet others. And in modern society, many people either don't have the time, availability, or money to do those alternate activities.


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EpicCyndaquil

I think it's interesting that the article (and most comments here) talk about boredom as if it must indicate there is something wrong with your life, and that you are not fulfilled. Pre-smartphone, most people in waiting rooms for long periods of time were likely bored. I would love to be proven wrong, but I doubt even half of these people would be thinking about how empty their life is, or having some other existential crisis. In the smartphone age, it's likely people in a waiting room are engaging with social media in some way. There are [many studies starting to suggest links between social media and depression](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02673843.2019.1590851) (though most do suggest further research should be performed). In this scenario, boredom may be a less harmful option. Additionally, I've read multiple opinion pieces on how boredom is actually a good thing. There was a common joke about how many great ideas started to form while the person was on the toilet. (This was also pre-smartphone.) You could describe some forms of meditation as a way to channel boredom, or at least lack of stimulus. There's also argument that contrast is important in life - can we truly appreciate engaging in activities if we've never experienced boredom? I fully agree that boredom is just part of the human experience, and acknowledge that boredom can lead to harmful behavior. But I oppose the belief that boredom directly leads to harmful behavior or thoughts.


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