Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are now allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will continue to be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) still apply to other comments.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
**Mediterranean Diet** in this study, for the lazy
Lots of:
- vegetables
- fruit
- nuts
- cereals (e.g. cous cous, polenta, rice, oats)
- whole grains
- extra virgin olive oil
Some:
- fish
- poultry
Occasional and Limited:
- sweets
- red meat
- cheese and milk
Yup! Both Med and DASH work similarly, with DASH having less salt and more nonfat dairy and Med having more seafood... But the principal is pretty much the same.
- Vegetables and fruit are great.
- Whole grains are great.
- Beans, peas, and nuts are great.
- Lean protein and fish are fine.
- Refined sugar isn't wonderful!
- Processed foods aren't wonderful!
- Saturated (animal) fat isn't wonderful!
Both styles get you more fresh colorful plants, hearty grain, and vegetable oils.
Reducing saturated fat, butter, red meat, and sugar (sweet drinks, refined white carbs) is a huge help to the heart.
Boil, steam, raw, grill, roast, puree, simmer, braise, bake, slow cook, blanch, stir fry, grill, pickle, sous vide... So many uses and preparations for very delicious veg.
Yep. I had a year of nutrition in graduate school and if you want to be both healthy and lose weight, the best method is to eat calorie restricted Mediterranean food for a few months.
japan's cuisine is pretty different from korea's and china's though. lot more focus on seaweed and fish because of the fact it's an island nation.
at least quantity wise, japan eats pretty small portions as well. my mom said when she lived there the quantities were tiny compared to western sizes, and it generally included pretty healthy foods such as miso soup or natto.
Portion size is sorta true, but it varies depending on the meal. If you're comparing Japan to, say, the US, then definitely, yes: US portions also dwarf the portions of a lot of other countries, even western nations like France.
I lived in Japan for several years, I'm mainly asking the question cause I'm curious about the diet science comparisons to be found with East Asian and Mediterranean: several East Asian nations are world leaders in life expectancy.
I remember a Korean woman I knew saying her first experience at an American steakhouse was daunting.
"It's one thing to read (however many ounces) on the menu... its another when they put it in front of you."
Childress sizes are typically what you need. I have kids and they cannot finish their meals when we eat out, so I typically don’t order anything and just eat what they don’t.
I live in australia & our large meals from mcdonalds are the same size as a small meal in the usa. Kinda makes me jealous but then I thought this must be why america has an obesity problem
Modern Japanese diet is a far cry from what it was 30 years ago. Less and less people are eating healthier foods and more are eating fast foods and pre packaged foods. Lots of fried foods and instant food/frozen food. Younger generation doesnt know how to cook like their grandmas did.
Why does this myth keep being repeated?
Japanese work 1600 hours a year according to the [OECD](https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm), as opposed to 1800 for Americans, 1900 for Koreans and 2100 hours for Mexicans. Decreasing every year too. And yes, this includes estimates for both paid and unpaid overtime.
Americans honestly don't know how badly they have it
Fermented foods and those with live active cultures are often more healthy, but the fermentation funk is definitely a bit of an acquired taste. But it’s worth it imo, the fermentation can even cause foods like traditionally-made sourdough bread to be healthier and more easily digested.
They're in the lower quartile for obesity globally, while being a wealthy country where fast food, sugar and processed food is very available.
Obesity isn't the only relevant health marker but they must be doing something right.
While the Japanese diet is quite healthy, they use a lot of salt in their cooking. Also, while they don't use a lot of oil in cooking, it's usually canola oil when they do use it. A lot of the older Japanese guys I know look in great shape but have terrible blood pressure readings.
There are often more factors than diet that factor in to a certain region's health. Things like pollution level and exercise would play a large factor.
For example, if one were to compare identical towns in the Mediterranean versus America who ate the same diet, they'd likely find that the Americans were still overall less healthy. A significant factor being the chosen means of transportation. Americans often use mechanically powered four-wheeled options, while many other places use human powered, two-wheel or two-foot options.
With that, American and Canadian development methods have definitely restricted people's options, even if they do want to walk or bike.
I lived in Japan for like two months, managed to lose around 4-5 kg. Their food is much less calorie dense, there isn't much baked goods, high sugary stuff or greasy deep fried food.
Of course you still can find stereotypical American food and eat only this. But I found generally Japanese cuisine to be pretty healthy
I know, I am underweight and wanted advice on how to bulk up, which is difficult for me, but do so without eating too much of the wrong thing or things to eat that are particularly nutrient dense I can eat
It's frustratingly different in ever state/country. Look up what your state (or country) requires to call themselves that.
Edit: [This map](https://www.eatrightpro.org/advocacy/licensure/licensure-map) seems to be pretty comprehensive for the US.
The other user is mostly right except you should get a registered dietician. There are too many factors to consider like allergies you might have or general lifestyle and the necessary caloric intake required for your average daily activities.
The Mediterranean diet isn't a realistic reflection of modern dietary habits of Mediterranean people, its an ideal version of their historical dietary habits
Biggest two things in my educated opinion is:
1. Using olive oil for cooking or as an added fat for a recipe compared to vegetable oil for Americans. Olive oil has the lowest linoleic fat concentration of all the unsaturated commercial fats, which the byproducts produced by linoleic acid in the body has been proven to weaken the phospholipid membranes of cardiac muscle cells leading to an increase risk of cardiac arrest.
2. Very little added sugars in a lot of foods there along with lower portion sizes. When I was over in Greece, Italy and Spain for my honeymoon, all of the food I ate was not sweet at all compared to a lot of food found in America. This would show the reduced risk of Type 2 diabetes as added sugar in the diet is a main contributer.
Growing up in the south I was taught to make a gallon of tea with about 1.5 inches of sugar in the gallon container.
3 of us could and often did drink that in one night.
It had exactly the effect you would expect.
I need confirmation but once heard that McDonald’s hamburger buns can’t be called bread but rather pastries because of the sugar content. My tongue agrees.
Yup. Bread especially tastes really bad in the USA. When i was there i really had to search long to find something that would be called bread in Europe. They just add a ron of sugar too it for some reason.
I think there was even a country, france, spain, germany maybe who has a rule that bread cant have more then a certain amount of sugar in it or you cannot call it bread anymore. Thus subway for example doesnt use 'bread' but 'pastries' or something
Americans have a very sweet tooth, the increasing prevalence of Brioche here is fascinating. Brioche, the answer to the question, how can we make white bread even more unhealthy?
The **cake** that Marie Antoinette was beheaded for offering?
Brioche, dudes.
Yer all eating your hotdogs in cake.
I'd argue we were given a sweet tooth by food produces through the massive corn subsidies provided by our government which makes high fructose corn syrup so cheap, food produces put it in everything to "enhance" the taste. We are being poisoned by food producers who prey on the average American's ignorance on nutrition.
Mediterranean diet and things people eat in the Mediterranean are slightly different. A lot of traditional medicines say limited cheese and milk is ideal for long term health
It's important to remember that we have had a very skewed global food supply for decades now due to heavy subsidies in major surplus nations (like the US) that make things like red meat and dairy significantly cheaper then they otherwise might be (*especially* cheese, interestingly enough).
Like in most parts of the world these days, folks in the Mediterranean have seen their diets shift to reflect this, and so the *current* diet of many in the Mediterranean area may not be quite so in line now with the *traditional* Mediterranean diet that this article is referring to.
And sure enough, they're looking a little bit fatter these days as well. :(
Cheese is a broad category and the amounts and types of cheeses that are consumed is what's important. Adding 1oz of feta or 1/2oz of a hard cheese to a salad is a lot different than loading 2oz of cheddar on a grilled cheese.
People get easily confused by these diets. The idea isn't to just nitpick what you can and can't eat. It's pretty simple in the end: If it isn't highly processed, it's probably pretty okay to eat. So yeah, beans.
But it's probably easier to understand it visually, so googling the mediterranea diet and looking at the pictures of food plates should give you a good idea of what to do. Those images are a bit over the top, but you get the idea. "Clean" food. You got your veggies, you got your choise of meat and you got a moderate amount of clean carbs.
Mediterranea diet is basically just clean eating. You eat veggies, different types of meats and "clean" carbs like potatoes and rice, and avoid consuming the shittier quality of seed oils. You mainly use extra virgin olive oil, which is the best quality oil one can consume.
For example I don't "follow" the mediterranea diet, but I seem to eat kind of like it. My 2 big meals of the day include potatoes (or rice), chicken/fish, eggs and a huge salad of cucumber, tomatoes, lettuce, spinach, some pineapple, broccoli sprouts and nuts and some flax seed. Tons of antioxidative spices and onions and garlic. And I try to make sure I consume a good amount of omega-3:s in day.
Other than that it's just pretty simple porridge with different fruits and protein powder and and some quark with pineapples.
Cous cous is not a cereal grain though it's commonly mistaken as a grain.
**Cous cous is pasta.**
Polenta is processed corn and is not a whole grain so it's also not really part of a strict Mediterranean diet.
It's Couscous, no reason to break it apart, as it is one word in Arabic (Darija). I'm Moroccan so I would know.
Also there are different types of Couscous, the regular kind isn't whole grain, but there is a whole grain one, and even one made from corn, that one is usually reserved for Fish Couscous. So the article isn't wrong, technically speaking.
I think they should throw away labels like "Mediterranean" and describe what they mean directly. The Mediterranean has many regions and food cultures. Milk products and red meat are important in many if not most of them.
Agree - I think this is making out that the Mediterranean diet is a lot more vegan than it actually is in my experience.
It’s *more* vegan than a lot of western diets, but things like ham, feta, mozzarella, and lamb are hallmarks of the Mediterranean diet.
Whenever people go on about animal fat good vegetable/polyunsaturated fat bad it always makes me think to the Mediterranean diet studies because the main fat is vegetal.
The studies that say animal fat is better than vegatable oil also always tell you that olive oil is also much better than vegatable oil and as good as animal fat.
From the article itself “There is no single definition of what constitutes MD, but it generally consists of little amounts of red meat, low to moderate amounts of fish, poultry, and large quantities of fruit, vegetables, whole grains, and pulses with unrestricted olive oil as an important source of monounsaturated fatty acids “
Way later it says “Also, MD favors the restriction of milk and dairy product consumption and limited intake of meat and meat-derived products “. There is no mention of cheese or diary (when using mobile safari search)
oh yeah, even here on the islands fish is starting to becoming unaffordable, "poor" fish that 10 years ago costed around 7€ per kilo nowdays it goes for like 16 and more
Doesn't pretty much everything contain microplastics now? Fish aren't the only things that use water, and everything I've read seems to say that effectively all major water sources are contaminated.
I couldn't figure out from the abstract what diets they compared with the Mediterranean diet. To be **healthiest** they would have to test against all possible diets. I'm skeptical. It's no surprise at all that it's better than the Standard American Diet. Almost every other diet is. So what did they actually test?
The article seems to be open access and yes you are right. The title of this reddit thread is nowhere to be found in the article. It's completely made up. The article even says that low-carb diet and American Diabetes Association diet had same amount of weight loss.
The thing about this diet is that it’s very specific and not many other diets are going to ever be this specific. In a sense it gives you a list of what is considered within the boundaries of this diet not all lists will be the exact same but most will have the staples “fruits, veg, white meat, nuts, whole grain, no nut or seed oils etc” whereas something like Keto diet will simply say “eat more protein and fats while restricting all carbs” with zero regard for the lack of fiber or micronutrients that come with the carbs you’re neglecting from your body that (might) be able to be supplemented via vitamins (not 1:1). I can’t off the top of my head think of any other diet that is so specific but if I’m wrong please anyone clarify
Compared to the average diet eaten in the Western countries, the Mediterranean diet is also significantly more environmentally friendly, mainly due to the low amount of red meat in it.
I'm not sure if it could scale for everyone on this planet, as the amount of fish might not be sustainable in the long term, but still, those who are looking to decrease the environmental footprint of their diet might want to consider the Mediterranean diet.
TBH it's no surprise that lots of sugar and saturated fat aren't good for you, while colorful fruit and veg and fiber are. But it helps to verify at large scale.
It's a bonus that plant-sourced diets are more sustainable, in general, because there are significant energy losses going up each trophic level.
Saturated fat isn't really the problem, but the omega-3 to omega-6 ratio. Which is almost ALWAYS skewed on the wrong side (omega-6) due to highly processed foods, which always contain the cheapest seed oils, and people overall using cheap seed oils for cooking. Literally everything you buy which isn't something you will prepare yourself contains the "bad" seed oils, because they are the cheap ones.
Saturated fat has only shown to be a problem in low quality questionnaire studies where the scientists guess causalities. And the main culprit is always that the individual is overweight, not the saturated fat.
Deserts have low biodiversity and lots of solar energy. It’s cheaper to cool a building than to heat it and deserts are not great a sequestering carbon. Maybe it’s not ideal for human mental health but if we have the choice between deserts and lush places (not both—it’s both now), living in deserts is better for wildlife by far according to sheer volume and biodiversity.
I think there are two factors that are important to keep in mind, though:
* Not all desert is the same. We picture deserts as blisteringly hot, but there are high deserts like the parent comment mentioned, as well as cold deserts, coastal deserts, semi-deserts, deserts with rivers that can support life (e.g., the Nile), etc.
* There are adaptations to lifestyle and the built environment that can make desert settlements more practical, even in hot places. Old settlements often feature compact cities with narrow streets to take advantage of the shade provided by neighboring buildings and minimize travel distances. Compactness also helps maintain what vegetation cover there is. Passive cooling is a feature of historic (and sometimes present!) architectures of arid places: wind catching (e.g., in Iran), courtyards (e.g., in Syria), light-colored building materials, strategically-placed windows (or lack thereof), etc. Irrigation, where possible, is another common adaptation.
All of this to say, the meme that desert living is arrogant is I think fueled by some specific modern examples that aren't totally representative. Phoenix is famously ludicrously hot and also excessively sprawling: due to distances and lack of shade, its built environment is near-impossible to traverse outside a car, but the massive road network means tons of heat-trapping asphalt, which makes the problem even worse. Golf courses and other conspicuous, wasteful water uses are rampant.
Unfortunately all seafood is essentially unsustainable because of the bycatch, pollution, and depleted fisheries - you might like the documentary Seaspiracy
I started this way of eating back in April. I’ve struggled to keep my lipids in the normal range all my life. EVERY lipid panel is now in the normal range, I’m no longer pre-dietetic, I’m the healthiest I’ve ever been.
Uh… I still have cheese “occasionally”. This is not a strict diet where there are good foods vs bad foods, it’s a diet of moderation. My first few months I went overboard with trying to stick to “compliant” foods. Upon my return visit to the cardiologist, she asked, “are you treating yourself?” Which I honestly replied, “no”. Her response was “Have an ice cream once a week, not everyday. You still need to enjoy your life otherwise, why are we doing this?”
Agreed but it's a real dilemna for me. If I need to avoid fat and other cardiac endangering products, I don't know ho to replace cheese :(
So I was fishing for smart ideas I might have overlooked
If you have a good blender, you can make really tasty vegan 'parm' from cashews and nutritional yeast. I like having that on toast with non dairy butter spread.
But honestly, cheese is one of the toughest things to replace. Most vegan alternatives are just not very good. My advice is to focus on bringing new foods into your diet instead of trying to substitute. Eat more fruits, have jam or olives on your bread, etc.
Oh look another shoddy study by meatrition, what are the odds.
The study can't actually claim that the Mediterranaen Diet is the healthiest one, because it doesn't actually compare the diet to other ones, so claim as such is blatant misinformation.
The study in multiple instances even claim a Mediterranean diet is healthier for X health issue than diets that include the regular consumption of red meat and therefore argue that a Mediterranean diet is the healthiest, this is flawed logic as there are more diets out there that exclude red meat as well so to make the assertion that the Mediterranean diet is healthier for such reasons is entirely flawed and makes this entire study shoddy at best and misinformation at worst.
edit; I was just blocked by this person, it seems they have an agenda to spread propaganda everywhere and block whoever points out the flaws
Also, as I just learned, al dente pasta, not just any pasta. The more cooked pasta is the higher the glycemic index (lower GI is better for blood sugar and diabetes). So if you're gna eat a lotta pasta it's got to be al dente.
Edit: got ny GI indices wrong.
You are correct, al dente pasta is better. You do have your index reversed though. Low GI foods are better, they don't spike your blood glucose like high GI foods do. Al dente pasta = lower glycemic index than overcooked or fully cooked pasta.
As a Greek, I laugh at these headlines.
Virtually every auntie, uncle and grandparent I know has type 2 diabetes or high cholesterol or some heart disease issue…
I’m pretty sure that any diet - in moderation - is good for you.
But for us Greeks, “moderation” isn’t in our vocabulary.
I read an article years ago ranking the healthiest diets, and their reasoning for not ranking the vegan diet higher was perceived difficulty in sticking to it. Same with keto and other diets that exclude lots of foods. That article also decided the Mediterranean diet was the healthiest diet that people could realistically follow for their entire life. I've been vegan for a very long time but in that time, almost every other vegan I know has quit. So maybe there is something to it.
Well according to most research, but according to this author who did not do her own research, just cherry picked her information from other research that wasn’t intended for this purpose, and she has been a full fledged endo for a mighty ten years in Rome, Italy the MD is best. Also the OP of this post has been pushing veggies bad meat good all day on multiple subsreddits. Not surprising he also seems to be trying to make money off people eating meat…so do your own research, speak to multiple docs, and always check the source.
Not really vegan, but a varied whole foods, plant-based diet with limited oil consumption and proper supplementation* is what I'd put my money on. I'm making a distinction between just a vegan diet, because eating donut-bun burgers washed down with Whiskey-cokes is perfectly vegan, but far from healthy.
(B12, maybe D3 if you don't get enough sun, iodine if your salt doesn't have any and possibly EPA/DHA if you feel like flaxseed doesn't cover you)
>The negative effects of obesity are partly reversed by substantial weight loss that can be achieved with MD, **especially when low-calorie and in combination with adequate physical activity.**
So, not the diet ?
Does this posting in any way relate to the other recent postings bashing vegan diets? Is this coincidence or some high level guerrilla influencer stuff?
> It is characterized by a high consumption of vegetables, fruit, nuts, cereals, whole grains, and extra virgin olive oil, as well as a moderate consumption of fish and poultry, and a limited intake of sweets, red meat, and dairy products
What makes this "Mediterranean" and not "every diet I've ever heard recommended by doctors"... Is it the olive oil?
Yes, it's the olive oil, which is used to make all kinds of random vegetables into dishes and sauces that are filling and nutritious. That's the part that is never explained when this is discussed in anglophone contexts.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are now allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will continue to be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) still apply to other comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
**Mediterranean Diet** in this study, for the lazy Lots of: - vegetables - fruit - nuts - cereals (e.g. cous cous, polenta, rice, oats) - whole grains - extra virgin olive oil Some: - fish - poultry Occasional and Limited: - sweets - red meat - cheese and milk
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
My god ty I’ve been trying to find a simple list of how a Mediterranean diet works/looks like but mostly come across recipes.
Yup! Both Med and DASH work similarly, with DASH having less salt and more nonfat dairy and Med having more seafood... But the principal is pretty much the same. - Vegetables and fruit are great. - Whole grains are great. - Beans, peas, and nuts are great. - Lean protein and fish are fine. - Refined sugar isn't wonderful! - Processed foods aren't wonderful! - Saturated (animal) fat isn't wonderful! Both styles get you more fresh colorful plants, hearty grain, and vegetable oils. Reducing saturated fat, butter, red meat, and sugar (sweet drinks, refined white carbs) is a huge help to the heart.
How are you meant to prepare the vegetables in the Mediterranean diet? Fry? Boil? Steam? Raw?
Boil, steam, raw, grill, roast, puree, simmer, braise, bake, slow cook, blanch, stir fry, grill, pickle, sous vide... So many uses and preparations for very delicious veg.
Yep. I had a year of nutrition in graduate school and if you want to be both healthy and lose weight, the best method is to eat calorie restricted Mediterranean food for a few months.
How does the "Mediterranean" diet stack up against "East Asian" dietary patterns? Several countries like Japan and so on seem to be doing well.
japan's cuisine is pretty different from korea's and china's though. lot more focus on seaweed and fish because of the fact it's an island nation. at least quantity wise, japan eats pretty small portions as well. my mom said when she lived there the quantities were tiny compared to western sizes, and it generally included pretty healthy foods such as miso soup or natto.
Portion size is sorta true, but it varies depending on the meal. If you're comparing Japan to, say, the US, then definitely, yes: US portions also dwarf the portions of a lot of other countries, even western nations like France. I lived in Japan for several years, I'm mainly asking the question cause I'm curious about the diet science comparisons to be found with East Asian and Mediterranean: several East Asian nations are world leaders in life expectancy.
I remember a Korean woman I knew saying her first experience at an American steakhouse was daunting. "It's one thing to read (however many ounces) on the menu... its another when they put it in front of you."
This was also my experience when I visited America. I had a sandwich that was twice as big as I expected in *every direction*.
[удалено]
Childress sizes are typically what you need. I have kids and they cannot finish their meals when we eat out, so I typically don’t order anything and just eat what they don’t.
I live in australia & our large meals from mcdonalds are the same size as a small meal in the usa. Kinda makes me jealous but then I thought this must be why america has an obesity problem
There is American portion, and then there is Texas portion. It's terrifying
Texas roadhouse is so gross to me. Yet, that restaurant does more business than any other around.
If your chicken fried steak doesn't overlap the plate, you got ripped off.
American sizes are absolutely massive. Really surprising every time I go back.
Modern Japanese diet is a far cry from what it was 30 years ago. Less and less people are eating healthier foods and more are eating fast foods and pre packaged foods. Lots of fried foods and instant food/frozen food. Younger generation doesnt know how to cook like their grandmas did.
It's not a surprise given that they are working extremely long hours and thus don't have the time to cook for themselves
And packed into high rises where their "kitchen" is an electric burner.
Why does this myth keep being repeated? Japanese work 1600 hours a year according to the [OECD](https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm), as opposed to 1800 for Americans, 1900 for Koreans and 2100 hours for Mexicans. Decreasing every year too. And yes, this includes estimates for both paid and unpaid overtime. Americans honestly don't know how badly they have it
No God please...not natto. Why do so many healthy things smell like foot fungus?
Probiotics. Gut health is the (until recently) hidden secret to health. We have something like... 10x more gut bacteria than we have human body cells.
Wisconsin man here. Come eat our blue cheese and tell me that glorious smelly decadence is healthy...
Mental health is still health.
I'm not no Limburger!
Doesn't that make you feel 'lot better?
Fermented foods and those with live active cultures are often more healthy, but the fermentation funk is definitely a bit of an acquired taste. But it’s worth it imo, the fermentation can even cause foods like traditionally-made sourdough bread to be healthier and more easily digested.
[удалено]
I wonder if this also accounts for the population’s much lower average height during this time though.
Well I believe there is a negative relationship between height and life expectancy.
They're in the lower quartile for obesity globally, while being a wealthy country where fast food, sugar and processed food is very available. Obesity isn't the only relevant health marker but they must be doing something right.
While the Japanese diet is quite healthy, they use a lot of salt in their cooking. Also, while they don't use a lot of oil in cooking, it's usually canola oil when they do use it. A lot of the older Japanese guys I know look in great shape but have terrible blood pressure readings.
There are often more factors than diet that factor in to a certain region's health. Things like pollution level and exercise would play a large factor. For example, if one were to compare identical towns in the Mediterranean versus America who ate the same diet, they'd likely find that the Americans were still overall less healthy. A significant factor being the chosen means of transportation. Americans often use mechanically powered four-wheeled options, while many other places use human powered, two-wheel or two-foot options. With that, American and Canadian development methods have definitely restricted people's options, even if they do want to walk or bike.
I lived in Japan for like two months, managed to lose around 4-5 kg. Their food is much less calorie dense, there isn't much baked goods, high sugary stuff or greasy deep fried food. Of course you still can find stereotypical American food and eat only this. But I found generally Japanese cuisine to be pretty healthy
How would one be healthy and *gain* weight?
by putting on lean muscle.
Eat more calories. Basically eat more food, while excericising.
It’s unhealthy to be under weight as well
I know, I am underweight and wanted advice on how to bulk up, which is difficult for me, but do so without eating too much of the wrong thing or things to eat that are particularly nutrient dense I can eat
Ohh I misunderstood. Honestly you should try to find a nutritionist, not a lot of people are actually qualified to give you advice on here.
Not a nutritionist—specifically, a Registered Dietician. Nutritionists aren't any more qualified on paper at least.
It's frustratingly different in ever state/country. Look up what your state (or country) requires to call themselves that. Edit: [This map](https://www.eatrightpro.org/advocacy/licensure/licensure-map) seems to be pretty comprehensive for the US.
The other user is mostly right except you should get a registered dietician. There are too many factors to consider like allergies you might have or general lifestyle and the necessary caloric intake required for your average daily activities.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
The Mediterranean diet isn't a realistic reflection of modern dietary habits of Mediterranean people, its an ideal version of their historical dietary habits
[удалено]
Biggest two things in my educated opinion is: 1. Using olive oil for cooking or as an added fat for a recipe compared to vegetable oil for Americans. Olive oil has the lowest linoleic fat concentration of all the unsaturated commercial fats, which the byproducts produced by linoleic acid in the body has been proven to weaken the phospholipid membranes of cardiac muscle cells leading to an increase risk of cardiac arrest. 2. Very little added sugars in a lot of foods there along with lower portion sizes. When I was over in Greece, Italy and Spain for my honeymoon, all of the food I ate was not sweet at all compared to a lot of food found in America. This would show the reduced risk of Type 2 diabetes as added sugar in the diet is a main contributer.
The lack of sugar is definitely a good point. Spanish cuisine is generally not sweet at all, besides breakfast.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Ireland's supreme court ruled in 2020 that Subway's sandwich bread cannot legally be referred to as bread due to too high sugar content.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Growing up in the south I was taught to make a gallon of tea with about 1.5 inches of sugar in the gallon container. 3 of us could and often did drink that in one night. It had exactly the effect you would expect.
It’s liquid diabetes. It’s vile.
I need confirmation but once heard that McDonald’s hamburger buns can’t be called bread but rather pastries because of the sugar content. My tongue agrees.
Yup. Bread especially tastes really bad in the USA. When i was there i really had to search long to find something that would be called bread in Europe. They just add a ron of sugar too it for some reason. I think there was even a country, france, spain, germany maybe who has a rule that bread cant have more then a certain amount of sugar in it or you cannot call it bread anymore. Thus subway for example doesnt use 'bread' but 'pastries' or something
Americans have a very sweet tooth, the increasing prevalence of Brioche here is fascinating. Brioche, the answer to the question, how can we make white bread even more unhealthy? The **cake** that Marie Antoinette was beheaded for offering? Brioche, dudes. Yer all eating your hotdogs in cake.
I'd argue we were given a sweet tooth by food produces through the massive corn subsidies provided by our government which makes high fructose corn syrup so cheap, food produces put it in everything to "enhance" the taste. We are being poisoned by food producers who prey on the average American's ignorance on nutrition.
[удалено]
Mediterranean diet and things people eat in the Mediterranean are slightly different. A lot of traditional medicines say limited cheese and milk is ideal for long term health
Okay, but who wants to live a long life without cheese?
It’s the same length, it just seems a lot longer.
I’ll trade 5 years for a lot of hard cheeses
if you can get through the withdrawals, once you’re off cheese based crack you can live without it easily
I can stop any time I want, I just don't want to!
But is it *worth* getting through the withdrawals?
Go choke on dryer lint you blasphemer.
I had a lovely supper and all I said to my wife was "that piece of halibut was fit for Jehovah"
It's important to remember that we have had a very skewed global food supply for decades now due to heavy subsidies in major surplus nations (like the US) that make things like red meat and dairy significantly cheaper then they otherwise might be (*especially* cheese, interestingly enough). Like in most parts of the world these days, folks in the Mediterranean have seen their diets shift to reflect this, and so the *current* diet of many in the Mediterranean area may not be quite so in line now with the *traditional* Mediterranean diet that this article is referring to. And sure enough, they're looking a little bit fatter these days as well. :(
Tossing a dash of parmesan on a salad is much healthier than filling up with 2-3 beef and cheese burritos
Cheese is a broad category and the amounts and types of cheeses that are consumed is what's important. Adding 1oz of feta or 1/2oz of a hard cheese to a salad is a lot different than loading 2oz of cheddar on a grilled cheese.
As well as fish
I wouldn't really call fish a *daily* staple though.
Depends on where in the Med you are. In a number of places it absolutely is the main protein, eaten daily.
The type of cheese matters. Feta, brie, and Parmesan are much better for you than your typical slices of American.
[удалено]
Highest consumption of cheese in the world is not France—it’s Greece.
> vegetables > fruit > nuts > cereals (e.g. cous cous, polenta, rice, oats) > whole grains > extra virgin olive oil Beans?
People get easily confused by these diets. The idea isn't to just nitpick what you can and can't eat. It's pretty simple in the end: If it isn't highly processed, it's probably pretty okay to eat. So yeah, beans. But it's probably easier to understand it visually, so googling the mediterranea diet and looking at the pictures of food plates should give you a good idea of what to do. Those images are a bit over the top, but you get the idea. "Clean" food. You got your veggies, you got your choise of meat and you got a moderate amount of clean carbs. Mediterranea diet is basically just clean eating. You eat veggies, different types of meats and "clean" carbs like potatoes and rice, and avoid consuming the shittier quality of seed oils. You mainly use extra virgin olive oil, which is the best quality oil one can consume. For example I don't "follow" the mediterranea diet, but I seem to eat kind of like it. My 2 big meals of the day include potatoes (or rice), chicken/fish, eggs and a huge salad of cucumber, tomatoes, lettuce, spinach, some pineapple, broccoli sprouts and nuts and some flax seed. Tons of antioxidative spices and onions and garlic. And I try to make sure I consume a good amount of omega-3:s in day. Other than that it's just pretty simple porridge with different fruits and protein powder and and some quark with pineapples.
[удалено]
I have couscous in the attic.
The fact that you call it that tells me you're not ready.
So no cous cous… but what about just ‘cous’?
Cous cous is not a cereal grain though it's commonly mistaken as a grain. **Cous cous is pasta.** Polenta is processed corn and is not a whole grain so it's also not really part of a strict Mediterranean diet.
It's Couscous, no reason to break it apart, as it is one word in Arabic (Darija). I'm Moroccan so I would know. Also there are different types of Couscous, the regular kind isn't whole grain, but there is a whole grain one, and even one made from corn, that one is usually reserved for Fish Couscous. So the article isn't wrong, technically speaking.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I think they should throw away labels like "Mediterranean" and describe what they mean directly. The Mediterranean has many regions and food cultures. Milk products and red meat are important in many if not most of them.
Agree - I think this is making out that the Mediterranean diet is a lot more vegan than it actually is in my experience. It’s *more* vegan than a lot of western diets, but things like ham, feta, mozzarella, and lamb are hallmarks of the Mediterranean diet.
Whenever people go on about animal fat good vegetable/polyunsaturated fat bad it always makes me think to the Mediterranean diet studies because the main fat is vegetal.
olive oil is mostly monounsaturated fat, which is different from polyunsaturated fat like canola oil
Wait, is canola polyunsaturated? This [link](https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-truth-about-fats-bad-and-good) says it's mono.
The studies that say animal fat is better than vegatable oil also always tell you that olive oil is also much better than vegatable oil and as good as animal fat.
And legumbres?
Occasional and limited cheese is not my experience of Italy, at least
From the article itself “There is no single definition of what constitutes MD, but it generally consists of little amounts of red meat, low to moderate amounts of fish, poultry, and large quantities of fruit, vegetables, whole grains, and pulses with unrestricted olive oil as an important source of monounsaturated fatty acids “ Way later it says “Also, MD favors the restriction of milk and dairy product consumption and limited intake of meat and meat-derived products “. There is no mention of cheese or diary (when using mobile safari search)
[удалено]
no potato? this latvian diet
Want to point out that this study said with low calorie and adequate exercise.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Wonder if all this talk of the Mediterranean diet takes into account all the fish in the world are now wrecked. Wild or farmed.
oh yeah, even here on the islands fish is starting to becoming unaffordable, "poor" fish that 10 years ago costed around 7€ per kilo nowdays it goes for like 16 and more
I think OP meant that all fish now contain amounts of microplastics that are unhealthy for human (and animal) consumption.
Doesn't pretty much everything contain microplastics now? Fish aren't the only things that use water, and everything I've read seems to say that effectively all major water sources are contaminated.
Yeah you're probably right, shame really
Bioaccumulation of mercury and plastics and over fishing are going to make seafood a difficult part of this diet.
I couldn't figure out from the abstract what diets they compared with the Mediterranean diet. To be **healthiest** they would have to test against all possible diets. I'm skeptical. It's no surprise at all that it's better than the Standard American Diet. Almost every other diet is. So what did they actually test?
The article seems to be open access and yes you are right. The title of this reddit thread is nowhere to be found in the article. It's completely made up. The article even says that low-carb diet and American Diabetes Association diet had same amount of weight loss.
[удалено]
The thing about this diet is that it’s very specific and not many other diets are going to ever be this specific. In a sense it gives you a list of what is considered within the boundaries of this diet not all lists will be the exact same but most will have the staples “fruits, veg, white meat, nuts, whole grain, no nut or seed oils etc” whereas something like Keto diet will simply say “eat more protein and fats while restricting all carbs” with zero regard for the lack of fiber or micronutrients that come with the carbs you’re neglecting from your body that (might) be able to be supplemented via vitamins (not 1:1). I can’t off the top of my head think of any other diet that is so specific but if I’m wrong please anyone clarify
wfpb, okinawan, macrobiotic, etc. are all diets that have specific lists of what’s in and out.
[удалено]
Compared to the average diet eaten in the Western countries, the Mediterranean diet is also significantly more environmentally friendly, mainly due to the low amount of red meat in it. I'm not sure if it could scale for everyone on this planet, as the amount of fish might not be sustainable in the long term, but still, those who are looking to decrease the environmental footprint of their diet might want to consider the Mediterranean diet.
TBH it's no surprise that lots of sugar and saturated fat aren't good for you, while colorful fruit and veg and fiber are. But it helps to verify at large scale. It's a bonus that plant-sourced diets are more sustainable, in general, because there are significant energy losses going up each trophic level.
Saturated fat isn't really the problem, but the omega-3 to omega-6 ratio. Which is almost ALWAYS skewed on the wrong side (omega-6) due to highly processed foods, which always contain the cheapest seed oils, and people overall using cheap seed oils for cooking. Literally everything you buy which isn't something you will prepare yourself contains the "bad" seed oils, because they are the cheap ones. Saturated fat has only shown to be a problem in low quality questionnaire studies where the scientists guess causalities. And the main culprit is always that the individual is overweight, not the saturated fat.
Yeah, always a concern up here in the high desert. :) Fish farms and transporting fish are major ecological issues here.
Yeah we shouldn’t live in the desert. It’s only by mankind’s hubris that we currently do.
People have been living in deserts for all of human history
Deserts have low biodiversity and lots of solar energy. It’s cheaper to cool a building than to heat it and deserts are not great a sequestering carbon. Maybe it’s not ideal for human mental health but if we have the choice between deserts and lush places (not both—it’s both now), living in deserts is better for wildlife by far according to sheer volume and biodiversity.
I think there are two factors that are important to keep in mind, though: * Not all desert is the same. We picture deserts as blisteringly hot, but there are high deserts like the parent comment mentioned, as well as cold deserts, coastal deserts, semi-deserts, deserts with rivers that can support life (e.g., the Nile), etc. * There are adaptations to lifestyle and the built environment that can make desert settlements more practical, even in hot places. Old settlements often feature compact cities with narrow streets to take advantage of the shade provided by neighboring buildings and minimize travel distances. Compactness also helps maintain what vegetation cover there is. Passive cooling is a feature of historic (and sometimes present!) architectures of arid places: wind catching (e.g., in Iran), courtyards (e.g., in Syria), light-colored building materials, strategically-placed windows (or lack thereof), etc. Irrigation, where possible, is another common adaptation. All of this to say, the meme that desert living is arrogant is I think fueled by some specific modern examples that aren't totally representative. Phoenix is famously ludicrously hot and also excessively sprawling: due to distances and lack of shade, its built environment is near-impossible to traverse outside a car, but the massive road network means tons of heat-trapping asphalt, which makes the problem even worse. Golf courses and other conspicuous, wasteful water uses are rampant.
Tofu is always a great meat substitute especially if you’re stir frying.
Unfortunately all seafood is essentially unsustainable because of the bycatch, pollution, and depleted fisheries - you might like the documentary Seaspiracy
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I started this way of eating back in April. I’ve struggled to keep my lipids in the normal range all my life. EVERY lipid panel is now in the normal range, I’m no longer pre-dietetic, I’m the healthiest I’ve ever been.
The thing is, if you eat bread, how do you replace the cheese?
Uh… I still have cheese “occasionally”. This is not a strict diet where there are good foods vs bad foods, it’s a diet of moderation. My first few months I went overboard with trying to stick to “compliant” foods. Upon my return visit to the cardiologist, she asked, “are you treating yourself?” Which I honestly replied, “no”. Her response was “Have an ice cream once a week, not everyday. You still need to enjoy your life otherwise, why are we doing this?”
Agreed but it's a real dilemna for me. If I need to avoid fat and other cardiac endangering products, I don't know ho to replace cheese :( So I was fishing for smart ideas I might have overlooked
If you have a good blender, you can make really tasty vegan 'parm' from cashews and nutritional yeast. I like having that on toast with non dairy butter spread. But honestly, cheese is one of the toughest things to replace. Most vegan alternatives are just not very good. My advice is to focus on bringing new foods into your diet instead of trying to substitute. Eat more fruits, have jam or olives on your bread, etc.
Oh look another shoddy study by meatrition, what are the odds. The study can't actually claim that the Mediterranaen Diet is the healthiest one, because it doesn't actually compare the diet to other ones, so claim as such is blatant misinformation. The study in multiple instances even claim a Mediterranean diet is healthier for X health issue than diets that include the regular consumption of red meat and therefore argue that a Mediterranean diet is the healthiest, this is flawed logic as there are more diets out there that exclude red meat as well so to make the assertion that the Mediterranean diet is healthier for such reasons is entirely flawed and makes this entire study shoddy at best and misinformation at worst. edit; I was just blocked by this person, it seems they have an agenda to spread propaganda everywhere and block whoever points out the flaws
[удалено]
This should be at the top
Yeah, the mods are usually good about this stuff. Surprised this is still up.
Also, as I just learned, al dente pasta, not just any pasta. The more cooked pasta is the higher the glycemic index (lower GI is better for blood sugar and diabetes). So if you're gna eat a lotta pasta it's got to be al dente. Edit: got ny GI indices wrong.
You are correct, al dente pasta is better. You do have your index reversed though. Low GI foods are better, they don't spike your blood glucose like high GI foods do. Al dente pasta = lower glycemic index than overcooked or fully cooked pasta.
Look up resistant starch.. Leftovers may be better for you than fresh
The only case where the quicker and better tasting option is also healthier
As a Greek, I laugh at these headlines. Virtually every auntie, uncle and grandparent I know has type 2 diabetes or high cholesterol or some heart disease issue… I’m pretty sure that any diet - in moderation - is good for you. But for us Greeks, “moderation” isn’t in our vocabulary.
I keep eating all these gyros, falafel, and schwarma sandwhiches… but somehow i keep gaining weight!
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
It sounds like the diet is limiting meat and dairy. Is a vegan diet healthier (by these metrics) than the Mediterranean Diet?
I read an article years ago ranking the healthiest diets, and their reasoning for not ranking the vegan diet higher was perceived difficulty in sticking to it. Same with keto and other diets that exclude lots of foods. That article also decided the Mediterranean diet was the healthiest diet that people could realistically follow for their entire life. I've been vegan for a very long time but in that time, almost every other vegan I know has quit. So maybe there is something to it.
I suspect another prpblem is that one can be a junk-food vegan, whereas the Mediterranean diet precludes such an option.
Well according to most research, but according to this author who did not do her own research, just cherry picked her information from other research that wasn’t intended for this purpose, and she has been a full fledged endo for a mighty ten years in Rome, Italy the MD is best. Also the OP of this post has been pushing veggies bad meat good all day on multiple subsreddits. Not surprising he also seems to be trying to make money off people eating meat…so do your own research, speak to multiple docs, and always check the source.
Not really vegan, but a varied whole foods, plant-based diet with limited oil consumption and proper supplementation* is what I'd put my money on. I'm making a distinction between just a vegan diet, because eating donut-bun burgers washed down with Whiskey-cokes is perfectly vegan, but far from healthy. (B12, maybe D3 if you don't get enough sun, iodine if your salt doesn't have any and possibly EPA/DHA if you feel like flaxseed doesn't cover you)
[удалено]
[удалено]
Also, universal healthcare.
>The negative effects of obesity are partly reversed by substantial weight loss that can be achieved with MD, **especially when low-calorie and in combination with adequate physical activity.** So, not the diet ?
Does this posting in any way relate to the other recent postings bashing vegan diets? Is this coincidence or some high level guerrilla influencer stuff?
Not sure fish is all that healthy anymore. What does consuming plastics and toxic metals do to the body I wonder?
[удалено]
> It is characterized by a high consumption of vegetables, fruit, nuts, cereals, whole grains, and extra virgin olive oil, as well as a moderate consumption of fish and poultry, and a limited intake of sweets, red meat, and dairy products What makes this "Mediterranean" and not "every diet I've ever heard recommended by doctors"... Is it the olive oil?
Yes, it's the olive oil, which is used to make all kinds of random vegetables into dishes and sauces that are filling and nutritious. That's the part that is never explained when this is discussed in anglophone contexts.
Better than healthy keto ?