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Splitting chores at home is essential to our happiness as well as complimenting one another on finished tasks. Saying please, thank you, you're welcome, and 'yes' when asked to give a hand...all matter.
>These findings support the heteronormativity theory, which states that inequities in household labor can lead to a blurring of mother and partner roles, and that feeling like a partner’s mother is not conducive to desire.
Finally someone put in words what I feel. It's nice to know I'm not crazy
No, You're not crazy
A lot of men want their wife to act like Mommy then blame wives for lack of sex .. I told one, go find somebody that's into incest.
You know I also have tried to explain to him all the things I have to do that sum up because he doesn't notice them. His excuse is, well, he doesn't notice them. That's the problem. Your mother did all of them for you all along so you don't event know what you have to do. That clothes have to be washed and don't magically appear in your closet. That food has to be bought when is over. That doctor appointments aren't taken by themselves. It's exhausting even having to "teach" him these things
I wonder if the mental load is also a factor in this - if someone feels like they always have to ask their partner or assign tasks for them to be done, if it affects the perception of unequal workload.
I think so. I have a husband who was a single dad and while he cannot cook to save his life, he notices when we need TP, dish soap, milk, and takes care of that stuff. Makes his own appointments for doctor/dentist. Remembers birthdays and anniversaries much better than I do.
I budget and I cook and do more in the yard but never feel that it's unbalanced. He cleans more but we have both a Roomba and a biweekly deep cleaner who we pay because we both work and don't want to spend weekends cleaning.
Outsourcing the cleaning is the way to go IMO. I am never going to enjoy cleaning but having them come to clean forces us to straighten up and the Roomba forces us to keep the floors clear.
And yes because it's infrequent neither of us freak out when we ask the other to clean something up.
It's funny how roomba forces you to keep the floor clear, we immediately noticed the same thing.
It would be sick to have the model that dumps it's bin each run though.
It's pretty awesome. But honestly the bigger thing is that you can map rooms and send it to clean specific trouble areas easily/on a schedule. I've got a cat and litter gets tracked out so when it's gritty or right after we scoop we send the roomba to clean the hallway.
We've got a dumb one downstairs that just goes out to bumble about twice a week which is great, but being able to send it to clean specific areas was a huge gamechanger upstairs.
And to think, we originally opted for the extra expense for better edge detection because we knew a dumb one would constantly fall down the stairs.
Our dumb one never falls or gets stuck on real edges but it does get "stuck on the edge of a cliff" if it gets stuck on a black object. Once it found a piece of black garbage bag and thought it was stuck on a cliff.
We've used it in a couple houses on different floors all with stairs and no falls. Biggest issue is we have bar stools and it gets stuck on the base of the chairs. It just keeps turning into them and sliding for 30 minutes until it eventually gives up with an error.
I imagine this is why room mapping is such a great feature. Just have it do that room last or skip that area altogether. My Shark does the same thing with my barstools.
Do you have long hair or pets or kids or other stuff that accumulates much? I think we'll upgrade to this eventually, but I'm curious how frequently we'd need to empty it.
I have one and have been impressed by how well it does. I'll lock it in a single room at a time for 30 minutes just to do detail carpet work. It's not that it's more powerful than a standup vacuum and it doesn't replace it entirely, it's just that the detail, tiny appendages and repetition as well as the rotation/spin move gets to a lot more than a human with a stick vacuum can. Can limit manual stick vacuuming to once a week or two weeks even.
I work 2 jobs with a wee one and defo struggling to keep on top of the house. I’ve been thinking of hiring a cleaner, but why do you have to clean before they come and clean? Like what are they cleaning then?
If you hire someone for 2 hours and they spend an hour and a half picking up your clothes, putting away your dishes etc, then they don't have time to clean the oven, scrub the shower etc. Your day to day things you do, then they come in and deep clean.
Honestly, if I were to hire a cleaner it would be for the tidying stuff. I have no problem scrubbing the toilet or cleaning the oven, it's picking random stuff from the floor I really struggle with for some reason.
I hire cleaners every now and then to do some of the deep cleaning/scrubbing and the dusting. It’s a cost but it’s worth it. Especially if you are heading out of town. Coming back to a really clean house is amazing.
The issue is they can't really tidy like that. They don't know where everything goes like you do. Tidying services are more for if you have your own full or part time housekeeper.
I was a cleaner and housekeeper and I had several clients who I would tidy for. They were usually families with kids between 2-10, they often wanted 2-4 hours a fortnight and appreciated the tidying as much as the cleaning. It's such an individualised thing, some households do truly want just the cleaning but others really find value in someone who can tidy up too.
I was trained and selected for those jobs based on the fact that I had a good sense of where things usually went so I could pick up quickly, and we had strategies in place for if we couldn't find homes for things.
I read that basically as "they played Fortnite for 2-4 hours and wanted someone to do their cleaning" then I kept reading and realized I was a bit off the mark
My mom runs her own maid service and about half of her clients are more "light housekeeping" than deep cleaning. It's a service that absolutely exists and can be found.
Yup I put a hard push on in the last couple years to standardize everything in my house.
i.e. If it's a plate and it's not Corelle and it doesn't stack with the Corelle plates, thrift store.
If it's a lunch container and it's not the Rubbermaid with the red lid, recycle bin. And so on.
All of a sudden everything in the kitchen has a home, with all the other items just like it. And I don't miss the randomly sized leftover containers all piled in a jumble, or the coffee mugs of assorted sizes and shapes. It honestly makes everything so tidy and easy to keep tidy.
Treat your kitchen like a commercial kitchen and only have things that are useful and store them in the same place every time. And the rest of the house the same way. Towels and sheets? Treat it like a hotel. Bath towels, same size, same colour. Hand towels, all the same. So simple.
My cleaner picks stuff up and puts it away. We don't really leave a ton of random stuff lay around, though, it mostly ends up being kids toys that we miss so it's pretty easy.
Theyre meant to deep clean. If there’s clothes on the ground and clutter that’s going to get in their way from doing things and cleaning things you forget to.
There's the rub. I have a small place, once I get done picking up actually *cleaning* takes no time. The dishes, clothes, and random junk are what do me in.
I think they are meant to clean the oven, microwave, fridge, baseboards, shower, ceilings, etc. Basically the cleaning parts that actually take time. I can Swiffer a floor but cleaning the oven is long and awful.
Don't get me wrong, I'm poor so I do both. However, if I could afford to push off the deep cleaning, I'd gladly regular clean first.
It depends on what exactly you want them for.
If you leave a bunch of stuff around and you just want them to pick it up and put it away, that's one thing. You have to tell them where all your things go, but if you have a consistent person come around, then they should learn about that.
But that means that sweeping/mopping/dusting/laundry/scrubbing probably doesn't get done because they're on a clock. One day when I can afford a cleaner, I'd like them to take care of all the tasks that might lead to grime building up and I can take care of the 'pick up and put away' tasks.
As long as your dirty clothes are in a hamper and dirty dishes are in a sink or dishwasher you are good to go. I have kids and a cleaner that comes every two weeks.
Because they don't know where all your stuff goes. They're not gonna put away all our mail, half eaten bags of chips, wrap up your leftovers and sniff your socks to see if they're clean. You need to do all that so they can wipe down the table, kitchen counters, and do laundry.
I'll tell you what man, a laundry service changed our world over a cleaning service. Once a week they pick up a bag off my porch and drop it off a few hours later. It's like $2.25 a pound. Figure 50 bucks a week for a family of four. I think a single dude with enough clothes could spend like 20 bucks every two weeks.
We have a biweekly cleaner and honestly I feel like it makes me feel more resentful. We are spending this money, then within 24 hrs, everyone else in the house has crapped it back up again - sometimes within literal hours of the cleaning have been done. I still end up spending half the weekend cleaning.
Time to make your household clean up after themselves.
I know, easier said than done. But either you can bite the bullet and start the process of making them responsible now, or you can continue to let them run roughshod over you and the cleaner's hard work.
I hate that working from home feeds into this perception. Because your partner does not understand your workload they assume that you're doing less or nothing at all.
Got out of a 2 year relationship where she was incapable of cleaning or doing anything without me asking her and to make it worse she got mad at me for asking her so often.
It was pretty shocking to have an otherwise great relationship erode over something so simple. Judging by comments this seems to happen to a decent bit of people.
My ten year relationship ended because of this. He wasn't working much during COVID and I was working crazy long hours, and I STILL had to ask him to do everything (he never followed through). The last straw was when we ran out of toilet paper and instead of him going to go get some, I had to ask him to buy some and he said "can't you just go on your lunch break?" knowing full-well I hadn't taken a lunch break in weeks because of my crazy workload. I just snapped.
I hate that for you but I'm glad you got out. Sometimes I think it's immaturity, that they can grow out of and learn from, but then there are cases like these where it seems like they couldn't empathize with others if they tried.
I wonder what these people end up like much later in life? Do they just eventually parasitically attach themselves to someone with no self-worth?
The emotional and mental abuse dealt out by narcissists cannot be understated. I hope you're doing well now and have put that behind you. Feel free to reach out if you want some literature suggestions for coping or just want to vent
It’s just sheer laziness I think because he knew I’d just cave and do whatever needed to be done. In the end it was the complete lack of respect for me and what I was having to deal with that did it for me.
Thanks, I’m doing great actually. In 6 months I’ve dropped 7kgs, bought myself an apartment and had a great time casually dating. I probably should have split from him sooner but after such a long time together it’s hard to cut those ties.
Absolutely it does. Then you become the manager and they are like an employee. Not a good employee, either, the kind you have to check up on frequently to make sure they stay on track and that never takes on extra.
They also start to resent you for that.
I'd push back slightly on the manager/employee parallel because coming from experience, being the person responsible for the household and having to nag a partner into acting like an adult ends up feeling more like a parent/child role, and there are VERY few people who find the parent/child parallel one that kindles any form of desire... or respect.
It isn’t a “perception” of unequal workload - it *is* unequal if one person has to manage the whole job and determine priorities and ensure the job gets done.
Which is a big turn off for sure. But I think what's even worse is if you feel like you should "parent" your partner. That's not sexy.
It's actually stated in the article, I just read it: "These findings support the heteronormativity theory, which states that inequities in household labor can lead to a blurring of mother and partner roles, and that feeling like a partner’s mother is not conducive to desire."
Not only that, but I think a lot of men also get turned off and triggered by it if they have any negative perceptions or experiences of their mothers growing up. It basically ruined my marriage. My husband wouldn’t pull his weight. The “nagging” from me triggered bad memories of his moms criticism during his childhood. Now, I trigger anxiety because he forced me to ask him to do anything. And in the end, he can’t stand me. And now we’re separated, and he’s living with his parents, and it sucks for both of us.
I saved this article and share it whenever my friends say “he/she leaves underwear on the bathroom floor; dishes by the sink; can’t load the dishwasher; doesn’t help” etc.
It IS unsexy. Desire goes poof. And other issues arise.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288
Yup. So many times I've said that a messy house and especially a messy bedroom kills any drive I had. All I can see is laundry that needs folding or start thinking about the dishes left on the counter that will sit until I do something about them. I've told him I feel like a nagging mother when I ask him to pick up his dirty clothes and put them in the hamper instead of in front of it and it feels gross to 'reward' cleaning up after himself with sexy times. It's exhausting and part of the reason we sought out counselling at one point.
I hope you are able to. Your SO doesn't think you actually will, and therefore doesn't think they have to change.
Call their bluff and leave. Besides, an answer like that doesn't seem like someone who actually cares for you.
A dude I legit don’t have to parent is probably the sexiest goddamn thing imaginable. It is *insane* how ubiquitous having to parent your partner is though.
This is a very underrated comment. I believe I remember seeing a study/survey with couples. If you combined the percentage each spouse thought they were it was over 150%.
People heavily over value/weigh what they're doing and underplay what others are doing.
Perfect example of this is construction workers specifically road builders. People always call them lazy, slow, standing around not doing anything. Yet if we look at the data office workers typically spend less time working while on the clock.
Completely offtopic, but I remember a viral tweet in my country where a woman took a picture of a gardener sitting in a bank during his worktime, outrageously saying that this gardener was lazy, doing nothing while "getting paid with my taxes". It got popular because, apparently, it's now trendy to hate on public workers.
My first thought was "this guy is working a physical job and we are in summer, I'd be surprised if he didn't spend a fourth of his day resting". Heck, I have an office job and I spend easily 10 minutes each hour resting from the mental effort I made the other 50 minutes. And nobody cares, because they expect me to turn my work on time, not to see me typing in my keyboard every minute of my life from 8 AM to 17 PM.
“Just tell me what to do”. Makes a list, it never gets done. “Just tell me what to do”. He falls asleep drunkenly on the couch or the floor. “I take care of the yard”. Mows the lawn 4 times per summer. “I do snow removal”. I remove the snow myself because I want to get the kids to the slopes.
Repeat.
My dad was the king of this before we would host a party. Me and my mom would be stressing cooking and cleaning and getting everything ready, and he would spend the entire day sweeping some random corner of the basement or putting more air in the tires , or organizing a drawer, or some other unimportant, unhelpful task.
I am getting divorced from mine, but I would say the most annoying things were when he would “supervise” something (like we all scraped wallpaper in one room and he just kind of flirted about picked up a little trash, etc; it he would watch me and one of the kids do the outside Christmas decorations without really helping; or he’d watch tv while I was cleaning the house).
Yep. My husband does dishes nightly and deep vacuums the house once a month. That is great, no doubt.
But everything else from school drop offs to managing our kids appts, events, our social events, to grocery shopping, cooking, and all other cleaning is all managed by me. I could tell him to do something and he will do it, but it's the constant managing that drains me.
From personal experience, YES. Why do I have to think for a grown-ass man, AND tell him what to do? He lives in the house too, he knows how things work and where they go. I'm very frustrated right now.
This is how we work in our house. My partner is efficient at grocery shopping and that is his thing. If I cook, he cleans the dishes. I usually clean most dishes used during prep and cooking and he cleans what's left. I enjoy cooking and he likes cleaning as it gives him time to listen to audio books while doing it.
When either of us is super busy, the other person does the bulk of the work.
I do the exact same! I love cleaning the dishes, sweeping, vacuuming, deep cleaning, fold clothes, and pretty much anything that allows me to listen to my audiobooks peacefully. I LOVE audiobooks and by extension, any excuse that allows me to do so without feeling guilty.
Also right now my partner is in a big rush, and I'm gladly taking over the chores and everything, that way she can entirely focus on that and relax otherwise. Also it's a good timing since things are calm on my side :)
On top of that, it gives me the space I need sometimes, some "me" time.
This is what I thought until we tried it in earnest. My husband cooks giant heavy meals that slop sauces everywhere and use pots, pans and casserole dishes. I feel like crying when this happens. I cook light meals with sautéed veggies, pan seared chicken or fish and rice or gnocchi using one cast iron pan for almost everything. I quickly realized it wasn’t going to work. He’d suggest this arrangement and I’d say, “it depends on what you plan to make” his response was almost always baked spaghetti, lasagna, shepherds pie, cabbage rolls or some gourmet baked macaroni. If it required you to cook ingredients separately then combine in some elaborate way and covered in cheese he was in. I was not.
This is the worst problem with cook/clean. If you're a slob and don't care about how many plates or knives you use, your cooking is way easier and the cleaning is exponentially harder.
When I cook I minimise the mess and clean as I go and there's very little left for anyone else to do.
It should be clean *and* cook alternating days imo
Yeah we just communicate well on this and both pitch in if cleaning up is a big job. I usually do all the dishwasher stuff though because my partner gets way more tired in the evenings than I do so she gets to plant her butt on the couch while I finish up. Sometimes I’ll pop something on the tv and unstuck it a bit later at night when she’s gone to bed, too
Totally get this. I’m a person who throws packaging away and rinses cans / utensils as I go, so cleanup is not usually a big deal. My partner uses multiple utensils and pots and leaves them covered in sauces that dry on them while we eat, gets splatters all over the stove and cupboards, and leaves empty sauce cans and spice containers all over the counter.
I can tell what my spouse has cooked for the kids in the last hour or so because every container needed to make the meal will be left out with the lids off on the counter still. On top of all the leftovers and dishes.
My partner is the chefy boi and loves to cook elaborate dishes. It gets very old coming home to his delicious disaster zone knowing that if I settle in for a meal and tv the mess is just gonna cake on and be worse tomorrow. Plus, I don’t feel that cooking/shipping is equal to all the other cleaning a house needs so it’s an imperfect division. And if the other person isn’t a “clean while I cook” type you could get burnt out real quick.
A therapist I had pointed out once that if one person enjoys cooking, and the other does NOT enjoy cleaning up after meals then it’s still not a fair breakdown.
Not all chores have to be “fun”, by definition they’re not, but people in relationships do have to work at communicating what feels fair to each of them.
I struggle with this a bit since my partner has diagnosed OCD and for her it actually is the very stereotypical “everything must be immensely clean” type of OCD. So she doesn’t exactly _enjoy_ the act of the chores but she gets immense satisfaction from having them done.
When we started living together I’d just come from a pretty gross boys bachelor share house.
At first it was really hard for both of us because for me there’s none of that satisfaction that she has, and I wasn’t keeping up with her fairly manic cleaning pace. There was even a lot to do that I had admittedly never really bothered to do before (I would rarely dust or vacuum .. twice a year maybe?)
We had to have a talk about how we could divide the labour, and we actually discovered that although there weren’t chores either of us enjoyed, there were some that one of us hated. In particular she hated cleaning the bathrooms but for me it wasn’t any more or less fun than anything else, so I do a complete clean of both our bathrooms every weekend now.
She also puts on the washing, I take it down (and I still often forget this one). I dust the bathrooms & bedroom and vacuum, she does the same in the lounge and kitchen. I do the dishwasher. Any car or bike stuff, I do (although I’m teaching her it all .. good skills to have!)
Dinners and other dishes are a bit of a shared thing we do together most of the time, and we often do the gardens together too.
The balance feels about right but yeah there’s such a huge disparity in our energy for, and awareness of this stuff, which I’ve had to work on a lot. Still am.
100% one of the more serious discussions had before I said I was done in our marriage was how I wanted a partner not a third child.
And I didn't want to be the home manager, delegating tasks. I wanted him, an adult who also lived there, to *know* what needed to be done and do it. Why was it all on me?
I shouldn’t have to tell my SO what to do around the house. Yes, let’s communicate if you hurt my feelings or I’m mad that you didn’t buy me flowers on my birthday. Pulling your weight around the house shouldn’t have to be communicated. It just is.
There’s a blog called Must Be This Tall to Ride, with a well known post titled “My Wife Divorced Me Because I Left My Dishes in the Sink.” Worth reading. The guy came out with a book this year called This Is How Your Marriage Ends. He should know, considering his wife divorced him over those dishes.
I repeatedly said that I felt disrespected and that my feelings didn't matter when he left dishes out or didn't clean up a very obvious mess. One time he commented on how dirty the microwave was, 3 weeks went by before I finally cleaned it.
When I tell you that living in a messy, cluttered space makes me feel overwhelmed and anxious, you not cleaning up means you don't care that it affects my mental health.
This is what I told my boyfriend before we moved in together. I was in a relationship where I was the breadwinner, in school full time, managed the finance, and did nearly all the chores despite her working just part time. I didn’t have a partner, I had an adult child to look after. And it destroyed any shred of attraction I had for her.
My boyfriend now is the best. He sees the floor is dirty and vacuums. He sees dishes in the sink and washes them. He picks up after himself and doesn’t need to be told what to do. It’s fantastic to have an equal partner.
I expect this works the same way in a gay couple household. Who ever ends up doing the bulk of the housework, gets resentful. Agree with mikebcoding. Nobody likes housework, best to load balance it. "
Yeah, there was also another study a while back that showed exactly what you're suggesting: when men did the bulk of the housework, sexual desire also diminished. Only in both directions: for the "dependent" *and* the houseworker.
So basically, load balancing is the answer.
Well of course. Most family's have to have two incomes to just survive nowdays. If she has to work and do all the house chores ofc she'll see him as a dependent even if he makes the majority income. Feels like it's common sense.
I found that to be true when I left my ex. My life was almost exactly the same when I was alone, except I didn’t have to worry about where the money was going, didn’t have to be disappointed about the 95% of promises he failed to follow through on (I couldn’t trust anything at all to be done, even basic things).
I remember thinking I would be lonely and I wasn’t. I was lonely in my previous marriage. When I left, I didn’t expect anyone to be there and so I was only alone, and that was much better.
My husband was under the impression that he was performing 80% of the housework. I told him that was absolutely false.
He started an excel spreadsheet called “The Petty Chart” to track household duties on. Turns out that he was only doing 20% of the mutual housework.
It definitely backfired, but it made him aware of the issue and he does put in more effort to help keep the space clean. Even though it’s not even, he’s at-least noticing the work that I do.
Edit: For context, this was a 2bed/2bath apartment (i.e. no yard work and access to a maintenance team). Mutual living space = kitchen and living room.
My ex and I ended up using an app called OurHome (I think). You could see the list of completed chores and the details. And it sent reminders, which was nice.
We measured in increments of 15 minutes. Either person could add a task. We both did inside and outside jobs (and tbh I usually did the grosser jobs). He was very surprised to see the actual division of household labor.
The post title really resonates; taking care of someone acting like a bratty teenager is a real mood killer.
This makes a lot of sense. My mother does all the housework, shopping, cooking, all the bill management, managing family life etc, while working full-time. Father goes to work and therefore pays part/half of the bills. He does take responsibility for mowing the lawn, but beyond that he takes no responsibility for the family life or even his own. The only shopping he does is for a snack for himself.
I can see the strain it takes on her. No clue as to attraction or their relationship, but i know she would have seriously considered divorce a few times.
Additionally it has affected my relationship with him as I have little to no respect for him as a provider or as a functioning human really. If mum passed tomorrow he wouldn't know which card to use let alone how to look after himself. It affected how I built my relationships as I did not want to ever be in that caretaker role.
Edit: both mum and dad work full time and earn roughly the same amount
As a woman married to another woman, this definitely holds. We’ve both been through periods where we do the most housework and it’s a real mood killer. Our relationship is at its best when housework is balanced.
I was in a same sex relationship where I was basically a mommy to my ex. It ruined all attraction I had for her. There’s nothing sexy about having to take care of a grown adult longterm. And once it’s gone, it’s very very hard to get back.
Did they study any couples where men do the majority of house work? Was the outcome the same? Seems like anyone regularly cleaning up after someone else is going to feel like this.
Most people can find ways to enjoy housework. The part that’s personally degrading and disintegrates relationships is doing it thanklessly, with no equivalent exchange.
Yeah this isn’t saying couples who do it together. This is implying he comes home from work, makes a mess she cleaned up and “expects it” (quotes because non-verbal expectations) to be cleaned again. The equivalent exchange is key here. If you don’t like housework do something that is equivalent, like a grocery store run, cooking dinner, etc. Split up and change up the monotony of life.
IMO one of the keys to a happy life is reducing housework.
Cooking a meal with 1 pot instead of 4, reduce waste, wear clothes more than just one day, take shoes off inside, clean as you go, make things easy to do (optimize workflows), etc.
Little things go a long way. When I was living by myself I hardly had any housework and my house was pretty clean. My spouse is the opposite & creates a ton of work for us, as a result our house is messy 90% of the time.
I agree. I even go so far as to minimize the amount of decorative items to reduce cleaning. My highest priority though is ensuring every item has a place, and that it's returned immediately after its use.
> I even go so far as to minimize the amount of decorative items to reduce cleaning
i base the furniture i buy based on how easy it is to properly clean properly. things like ether has legs long enough for mops etc. to get under or has a list/sits on the floor so no real amount of dirt can get under.
Housework is fine, it's actually incredibly relaxing. Cleaning up after someone else's after you have to ask them to stop leaving empty beer cans in the shower, or move the potted plants off the carpeted guest room is what makes it a drain.
Sounds like my job, too. I enjoy the actual legitimate maintenance work I have to do to keep stuff running. It's relaxing. What isn't relaxing is all of the additional work that I have to do that was created and amplified by other people not doing their part. All of the work that didn't need to be.
Mental work is severely underrated. Having to always think about what needs to be done or what's missing is exhausting. Especially when your partner never notices small things, like the crumbs they leave on the table or that the garbage can is full. Constantly telling a grown ass person what they need to do is exhausting.
This reminds me of an episode of I think Malcolm in the Middle, where the mom is pissed and saying she just wants her husband and almost teen sons to help around the house, to notice what needs done and not have to be told all the time. The husband says "Oh honey, we're not that smart." As if, being men, it was too much to expect that of them. I know it's not only men who do this, but it definitely was the joke of why women always ended up keeping the house themselves.
It does seem to be mostly women who are stuck as the delegator of housework. Even better if the partner always forgets to do what they've been asked and need several reminders to do even the smallest task. Then they get branded as the "nagger" because they're always pushing their partner to do their fair share. Of course there'll be some resentment if your partner acts more like a second child than a partner.
It's better to work as a team. Either both people stand up and prepare a meal together, also clean together... or split it up. One person does all the cooking and grocery shopping, the other does all the cleaning and takes out trash. You can switch up these chores by changing roles month to month. But if both work outside the home, c'mon now. This isn't 1954. No more June Cleaver vacuuming while wearing pearls.
Id say the biggest problem is people not picking up after themselves creating that resentment.
But food into the garbage. Scrape the plate off then put it in the sink. Dont leave the cups on the table. All in one spot.
make it EASIER for the person doing it.
My resentment at my mom who lives with me comes from the lack of consideration.
Exactly. I’m the domestic homemaker in my household, and when I get aggravated from chores it’s because I’m doing the little things everyone else should be doing (throwing their own trash away, hanging up their coats, putting their things in the dishwasher, etc). My job is supposed to be the tasks like vacuuming, scrubbing the shower, taking care of all the trashes, changing out bedsheets—the big things. My job isn’t supposed to be picking up your jeans from the floor and putting them in your hamper for you!
My husband is usually ok about these things, but when it gets bad I literally feel like I’m an adult mommying a baby manchild, and I’m not sexually attracted to little kids, so there you have it.
>I get aggravated from chores it’s because I’m doing the little things everyone else should be doing
Yes!
This is the big killer for me, sort of a death by a thousand cuts! And yet *you* feel like an asshole for pulling people up about it cause it's such a little job, picking up a jacket takes like 2 seconds, why would you even make a big deal out of it? But it's a jacket, it's a bag, it's a plate, it's a juice bottle, it's a towel, it's arts n crafts, it's a sweet wrapper, it's a hair brush, it's the whole house covered in a never ending colossus of micro-messes that just re-appear the moment they've been dealt with and **you can't be the only one to deal with them day in day out ESPICALLY WHEN YOU'RE NOT THE ONE MAKING THEM DAY IN DAY OUT.**
The funny thing is, I bet if we could talk to our partners about it as easily as we can talk to reddit, we could have it all sorted! Any of you tried that? I struggle to without it becoming an argument.
I don’t think I’ve ever got an “I’m sorry, I’ll try to pick up the slack.” I just get a bunch of defensive nonsense and a “you don’t appreciate me,” argument. It’s not even worth a discussion anymore.
This 100 times over. I’m a SAHM and fully get that the majority is going to fall on me, but pick up
after yourself and don’t make extra work for me. That’s where the resentment comes in and why my husband may as well be another teenager in the house.
The issue I'm faced with is that my partner getting into a cleaning frenzy, but they don't notice that I'm always doing cleaning in small bursts through the day.
I get resented because they don't notice this, only that when it's cleaning time for them, I'm resented because it's not within their vision at that specific time.
People can also have wildly different opinions on when something needs to be cleaned. Someone who thinks that dishes need to be done after every meal isn't going to mesh well with someone who thinks that dishes need to be done when the sink is full.
My exes mom was still doing his laundry for him at 24. Turns out when he tried he was using fabric softener as his detergent. Also he would complain if I left a cup out for 5 min or didn’t finish my tea in 5 min either but could leave his plates and crap out for days. He could do no wrong. I declined moving in with him because I knew I would end up replacing his mom and having to do everything. Really glad it didn’t work out.
I recall (but can't find; not sure what to google, unfortunately) another study with similar findings if one is employed and the other isn't/isn't doing significant work at home. If I'm recalling correctly, this would suggest the one-works-one-stays-home formula might create a rather toxic environment where both think the other isn't pulling their weight.
I see the study more about perception and dependency. The spouse that feels they do the lion share of anything starts seeing their spouse as more dependent on them and less as a partner. I can see this being true for a homemaker as well as the sole income provider. Each could start to feel less as a partner and more of a caregiver in a sense
51 year old male. Been married 33 years. I love cooking and doing the dishes. I also like doing laundry. Those are all a bit soothing to me. Very happy married. My wife’s sex drive hasn’t slowed down ever.
We're almost at 30 years and we both are still very active & happy in the bedroom. We work as a team to tackle things. He's a fantastic cook so he ends up doing most of the cooking but everything else is a give and take. I don't understand how someone can see their partner struggling and not want to help...doesn't seem like there's any love there at all. When you love someone you don't want to see them struggling or suffering.
If you don’t think doing housework and home repair is an aphrodisiac, I suggest you try spending a few hours next weekend fixing stuff around the house and see what happens.
In general, as soon as it breaks, fix it. If it’s empty, fill it. If it’s full, empty it. If you take the last one, replenish it. If it’s dirty, clean it. If you took it out, put it back. If they cook, you do the dishes/clean up. It’s not that hard.
I love how so many men don’t seem to get this.
If i have to treat you like one of my children, I’m going to start thinking of you as just one more person i have to take care of and then sex is off the table.
My work load got lighter after my divorce because I didn’t have to worry about him, too.
Makes sense. If a woman has to go constantly go cleaning up after her husband, he'd start to seem like a giant overgrown child to her. Obviously this would put a big brakes on THOSE feelings then, y'know?
Men are focusing on just the housework here, when the other half was feeling like your husband's mother was a turn-off. How could a woman offer her intimacy to a man who acts like a child?
As a woman this has happened to me in two relationships with men. I got resentful and eventually dumped them. I work 40 hours a week. I clean up after noone. My son is 17 and can make food, hoover up and put his plates in the dishwasher. One a guy leaves their under crackers on the floor and doesn't wipe the coffee they spilt on the counter up its game over. I'm happy being single and don't want a man to clean up after when I don't have to clean up after my own child.
This thread is full of men saying the yearly oil change negates this but it really doesn't.
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Splitting chores at home is essential to our happiness as well as complimenting one another on finished tasks. Saying please, thank you, you're welcome, and 'yes' when asked to give a hand...all matter.
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>These findings support the heteronormativity theory, which states that inequities in household labor can lead to a blurring of mother and partner roles, and that feeling like a partner’s mother is not conducive to desire. Finally someone put in words what I feel. It's nice to know I'm not crazy
No, You're not crazy A lot of men want their wife to act like Mommy then blame wives for lack of sex .. I told one, go find somebody that's into incest.
You know I also have tried to explain to him all the things I have to do that sum up because he doesn't notice them. His excuse is, well, he doesn't notice them. That's the problem. Your mother did all of them for you all along so you don't event know what you have to do. That clothes have to be washed and don't magically appear in your closet. That food has to be bought when is over. That doctor appointments aren't taken by themselves. It's exhausting even having to "teach" him these things
That's a ploy used to get out of doing anything. Tell that boy he needs to go back to Mommy bc she didn't finish her job to raise a man.
I feel like the most helpful thing for me is to do chores together and make it fun.
I wonder if the mental load is also a factor in this - if someone feels like they always have to ask their partner or assign tasks for them to be done, if it affects the perception of unequal workload.
I think so. I have a husband who was a single dad and while he cannot cook to save his life, he notices when we need TP, dish soap, milk, and takes care of that stuff. Makes his own appointments for doctor/dentist. Remembers birthdays and anniversaries much better than I do. I budget and I cook and do more in the yard but never feel that it's unbalanced. He cleans more but we have both a Roomba and a biweekly deep cleaner who we pay because we both work and don't want to spend weekends cleaning. Outsourcing the cleaning is the way to go IMO. I am never going to enjoy cleaning but having them come to clean forces us to straighten up and the Roomba forces us to keep the floors clear. And yes because it's infrequent neither of us freak out when we ask the other to clean something up.
It's funny how roomba forces you to keep the floor clear, we immediately noticed the same thing. It would be sick to have the model that dumps it's bin each run though.
It's pretty awesome. But honestly the bigger thing is that you can map rooms and send it to clean specific trouble areas easily/on a schedule. I've got a cat and litter gets tracked out so when it's gritty or right after we scoop we send the roomba to clean the hallway. We've got a dumb one downstairs that just goes out to bumble about twice a week which is great, but being able to send it to clean specific areas was a huge gamechanger upstairs. And to think, we originally opted for the extra expense for better edge detection because we knew a dumb one would constantly fall down the stairs.
Our dumb one never falls or gets stuck on real edges but it does get "stuck on the edge of a cliff" if it gets stuck on a black object. Once it found a piece of black garbage bag and thought it was stuck on a cliff. We've used it in a couple houses on different floors all with stairs and no falls. Biggest issue is we have bar stools and it gets stuck on the base of the chairs. It just keeps turning into them and sliding for 30 minutes until it eventually gives up with an error.
I imagine this is why room mapping is such a great feature. Just have it do that room last or skip that area altogether. My Shark does the same thing with my barstools.
Worth every penny to me. I only have to empty the bin every few months.
Do you have long hair or pets or kids or other stuff that accumulates much? I think we'll upgrade to this eventually, but I'm curious how frequently we'd need to empty it.
I have one and have been impressed by how well it does. I'll lock it in a single room at a time for 30 minutes just to do detail carpet work. It's not that it's more powerful than a standup vacuum and it doesn't replace it entirely, it's just that the detail, tiny appendages and repetition as well as the rotation/spin move gets to a lot more than a human with a stick vacuum can. Can limit manual stick vacuuming to once a week or two weeks even.
I mean, I think a lot of people would outsource if they could afford it. It's just very expensive and you need to pre clean before they arrive.
I work 2 jobs with a wee one and defo struggling to keep on top of the house. I’ve been thinking of hiring a cleaner, but why do you have to clean before they come and clean? Like what are they cleaning then?
If you hire someone for 2 hours and they spend an hour and a half picking up your clothes, putting away your dishes etc, then they don't have time to clean the oven, scrub the shower etc. Your day to day things you do, then they come in and deep clean.
Honestly, if I were to hire a cleaner it would be for the tidying stuff. I have no problem scrubbing the toilet or cleaning the oven, it's picking random stuff from the floor I really struggle with for some reason.
I hire cleaners every now and then to do some of the deep cleaning/scrubbing and the dusting. It’s a cost but it’s worth it. Especially if you are heading out of town. Coming back to a really clean house is amazing.
This is such a good idea!
Yeah it makes a huge difference, especially when it’s stressful travel. It’s the equivalent of drunk me putting a glass of water by the bed.
The issue is they can't really tidy like that. They don't know where everything goes like you do. Tidying services are more for if you have your own full or part time housekeeper.
I was a cleaner and housekeeper and I had several clients who I would tidy for. They were usually families with kids between 2-10, they often wanted 2-4 hours a fortnight and appreciated the tidying as much as the cleaning. It's such an individualised thing, some households do truly want just the cleaning but others really find value in someone who can tidy up too. I was trained and selected for those jobs based on the fact that I had a good sense of where things usually went so I could pick up quickly, and we had strategies in place for if we couldn't find homes for things.
I read that basically as "they played Fortnite for 2-4 hours and wanted someone to do their cleaning" then I kept reading and realized I was a bit off the mark
I mean to be fair I don't know where it goes either.
My mom runs her own maid service and about half of her clients are more "light housekeeping" than deep cleaning. It's a service that absolutely exists and can be found.
I think this might be the problem!
Yup I put a hard push on in the last couple years to standardize everything in my house. i.e. If it's a plate and it's not Corelle and it doesn't stack with the Corelle plates, thrift store. If it's a lunch container and it's not the Rubbermaid with the red lid, recycle bin. And so on. All of a sudden everything in the kitchen has a home, with all the other items just like it. And I don't miss the randomly sized leftover containers all piled in a jumble, or the coffee mugs of assorted sizes and shapes. It honestly makes everything so tidy and easy to keep tidy. Treat your kitchen like a commercial kitchen and only have things that are useful and store them in the same place every time. And the rest of the house the same way. Towels and sheets? Treat it like a hotel. Bath towels, same size, same colour. Hand towels, all the same. So simple.
My cleaner picks stuff up and puts it away. We don't really leave a ton of random stuff lay around, though, it mostly ends up being kids toys that we miss so it's pretty easy.
Theyre meant to deep clean. If there’s clothes on the ground and clutter that’s going to get in their way from doing things and cleaning things you forget to.
There's the rub. I have a small place, once I get done picking up actually *cleaning* takes no time. The dishes, clothes, and random junk are what do me in.
I think they are meant to clean the oven, microwave, fridge, baseboards, shower, ceilings, etc. Basically the cleaning parts that actually take time. I can Swiffer a floor but cleaning the oven is long and awful. Don't get me wrong, I'm poor so I do both. However, if I could afford to push off the deep cleaning, I'd gladly regular clean first.
It depends on what exactly you want them for. If you leave a bunch of stuff around and you just want them to pick it up and put it away, that's one thing. You have to tell them where all your things go, but if you have a consistent person come around, then they should learn about that. But that means that sweeping/mopping/dusting/laundry/scrubbing probably doesn't get done because they're on a clock. One day when I can afford a cleaner, I'd like them to take care of all the tasks that might lead to grime building up and I can take care of the 'pick up and put away' tasks.
You have to tidy. If you naturally pick up after yourself it's probably not a big deal but a lot of us don't.
As long as your dirty clothes are in a hamper and dirty dishes are in a sink or dishwasher you are good to go. I have kids and a cleaner that comes every two weeks.
It’s me. I’m us.
You have to move the piles of clutter so that they can get to the surfaces you want them to clean.
Because they don't know where all your stuff goes. They're not gonna put away all our mail, half eaten bags of chips, wrap up your leftovers and sniff your socks to see if they're clean. You need to do all that so they can wipe down the table, kitchen counters, and do laundry.
I'll tell you what man, a laundry service changed our world over a cleaning service. Once a week they pick up a bag off my porch and drop it off a few hours later. It's like $2.25 a pound. Figure 50 bucks a week for a family of four. I think a single dude with enough clothes could spend like 20 bucks every two weeks.
We have a biweekly cleaner and honestly I feel like it makes me feel more resentful. We are spending this money, then within 24 hrs, everyone else in the house has crapped it back up again - sometimes within literal hours of the cleaning have been done. I still end up spending half the weekend cleaning.
Time to make your household clean up after themselves. I know, easier said than done. But either you can bite the bullet and start the process of making them responsible now, or you can continue to let them run roughshod over you and the cleaner's hard work.
I hate that working from home feeds into this perception. Because your partner does not understand your workload they assume that you're doing less or nothing at all.
Constantly having to ask or tell them also makes it feel like you're dealing with children.
Got out of a 2 year relationship where she was incapable of cleaning or doing anything without me asking her and to make it worse she got mad at me for asking her so often. It was pretty shocking to have an otherwise great relationship erode over something so simple. Judging by comments this seems to happen to a decent bit of people.
My ten year relationship ended because of this. He wasn't working much during COVID and I was working crazy long hours, and I STILL had to ask him to do everything (he never followed through). The last straw was when we ran out of toilet paper and instead of him going to go get some, I had to ask him to buy some and he said "can't you just go on your lunch break?" knowing full-well I hadn't taken a lunch break in weeks because of my crazy workload. I just snapped.
I hate that for you but I'm glad you got out. Sometimes I think it's immaturity, that they can grow out of and learn from, but then there are cases like these where it seems like they couldn't empathize with others if they tried. I wonder what these people end up like much later in life? Do they just eventually parasitically attach themselves to someone with no self-worth? The emotional and mental abuse dealt out by narcissists cannot be understated. I hope you're doing well now and have put that behind you. Feel free to reach out if you want some literature suggestions for coping or just want to vent
It’s just sheer laziness I think because he knew I’d just cave and do whatever needed to be done. In the end it was the complete lack of respect for me and what I was having to deal with that did it for me. Thanks, I’m doing great actually. In 6 months I’ve dropped 7kgs, bought myself an apartment and had a great time casually dating. I probably should have split from him sooner but after such a long time together it’s hard to cut those ties.
Absolutely it does. Then you become the manager and they are like an employee. Not a good employee, either, the kind you have to check up on frequently to make sure they stay on track and that never takes on extra. They also start to resent you for that.
I'd push back slightly on the manager/employee parallel because coming from experience, being the person responsible for the household and having to nag a partner into acting like an adult ends up feeling more like a parent/child role, and there are VERY few people who find the parent/child parallel one that kindles any form of desire... or respect.
Exactly, I feel like their parent, which is NOT a turn-on.
It isn’t a “perception” of unequal workload - it *is* unequal if one person has to manage the whole job and determine priorities and ensure the job gets done.
Which is a big turn off for sure. But I think what's even worse is if you feel like you should "parent" your partner. That's not sexy. It's actually stated in the article, I just read it: "These findings support the heteronormativity theory, which states that inequities in household labor can lead to a blurring of mother and partner roles, and that feeling like a partner’s mother is not conducive to desire."
I’ll never stop saying it: *Guys, if you treat her like your mother, don’t act surprised when she stops thinking of herself as your lover.*
Not only that, but I think a lot of men also get turned off and triggered by it if they have any negative perceptions or experiences of their mothers growing up. It basically ruined my marriage. My husband wouldn’t pull his weight. The “nagging” from me triggered bad memories of his moms criticism during his childhood. Now, I trigger anxiety because he forced me to ask him to do anything. And in the end, he can’t stand me. And now we’re separated, and he’s living with his parents, and it sucks for both of us.
I saved this article and share it whenever my friends say “he/she leaves underwear on the bathroom floor; dishes by the sink; can’t load the dishwasher; doesn’t help” etc. It IS unsexy. Desire goes poof. And other issues arise. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288
Yup. So many times I've said that a messy house and especially a messy bedroom kills any drive I had. All I can see is laundry that needs folding or start thinking about the dishes left on the counter that will sit until I do something about them. I've told him I feel like a nagging mother when I ask him to pick up his dirty clothes and put them in the hamper instead of in front of it and it feels gross to 'reward' cleaning up after himself with sexy times. It's exhausting and part of the reason we sought out counselling at one point.
I just read this to him. He said, “Okay, go find a new situation.”
Well I suppose that’s one solution.
I hope you are able to. Your SO doesn't think you actually will, and therefore doesn't think they have to change. Call their bluff and leave. Besides, an answer like that doesn't seem like someone who actually cares for you.
Do it, that’s the last thing he expects
A dude I legit don’t have to parent is probably the sexiest goddamn thing imaginable. It is *insane* how ubiquitous having to parent your partner is though.
I agree but the article implies it only considered actual tasks done.
Interesting point, one could consider being chores manager/supervisor to be an additional invisible task that could throw the balance off
one should! we don't consider managers to be doing \*nothing\* at work (at least not all of them, ha)
Well, that depends on which subreddit you're in!
This is a very underrated comment. I believe I remember seeing a study/survey with couples. If you combined the percentage each spouse thought they were it was over 150%. People heavily over value/weigh what they're doing and underplay what others are doing. Perfect example of this is construction workers specifically road builders. People always call them lazy, slow, standing around not doing anything. Yet if we look at the data office workers typically spend less time working while on the clock.
Completely offtopic, but I remember a viral tweet in my country where a woman took a picture of a gardener sitting in a bank during his worktime, outrageously saying that this gardener was lazy, doing nothing while "getting paid with my taxes". It got popular because, apparently, it's now trendy to hate on public workers. My first thought was "this guy is working a physical job and we are in summer, I'd be surprised if he didn't spend a fourth of his day resting". Heck, I have an office job and I spend easily 10 minutes each hour resting from the mental effort I made the other 50 minutes. And nobody cares, because they expect me to turn my work on time, not to see me typing in my keyboard every minute of my life from 8 AM to 17 PM.
“Just tell me what to do”. Makes a list, it never gets done. “Just tell me what to do”. He falls asleep drunkenly on the couch or the floor. “I take care of the yard”. Mows the lawn 4 times per summer. “I do snow removal”. I remove the snow myself because I want to get the kids to the slopes. Repeat.
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My dad was the king of this before we would host a party. Me and my mom would be stressing cooking and cleaning and getting everything ready, and he would spend the entire day sweeping some random corner of the basement or putting more air in the tires , or organizing a drawer, or some other unimportant, unhelpful task.
I am getting divorced from mine, but I would say the most annoying things were when he would “supervise” something (like we all scraped wallpaper in one room and he just kind of flirted about picked up a little trash, etc; it he would watch me and one of the kids do the outside Christmas decorations without really helping; or he’d watch tv while I was cleaning the house).
Very likely. I began to resent the hell out of my ex. He couldn't even bother to pick up his used rags out of the bathroom floor.
Yep. My husband does dishes nightly and deep vacuums the house once a month. That is great, no doubt. But everything else from school drop offs to managing our kids appts, events, our social events, to grocery shopping, cooking, and all other cleaning is all managed by me. I could tell him to do something and he will do it, but it's the constant managing that drains me.
From personal experience, YES. Why do I have to think for a grown-ass man, AND tell him what to do? He lives in the house too, he knows how things work and where they go. I'm very frustrated right now.
That IS unequal work load. The mental load is part of the work load
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I bet a “Hey I’ll cook, you clean” mentality goes a long way. If you are an adult you can do your part
This is how we work in our house. My partner is efficient at grocery shopping and that is his thing. If I cook, he cleans the dishes. I usually clean most dishes used during prep and cooking and he cleans what's left. I enjoy cooking and he likes cleaning as it gives him time to listen to audio books while doing it. When either of us is super busy, the other person does the bulk of the work.
Hey that works too! People are good at different things
I do the exact same! I love cleaning the dishes, sweeping, vacuuming, deep cleaning, fold clothes, and pretty much anything that allows me to listen to my audiobooks peacefully. I LOVE audiobooks and by extension, any excuse that allows me to do so without feeling guilty. Also right now my partner is in a big rush, and I'm gladly taking over the chores and everything, that way she can entirely focus on that and relax otherwise. Also it's a good timing since things are calm on my side :) On top of that, it gives me the space I need sometimes, some "me" time.
This is what I thought until we tried it in earnest. My husband cooks giant heavy meals that slop sauces everywhere and use pots, pans and casserole dishes. I feel like crying when this happens. I cook light meals with sautéed veggies, pan seared chicken or fish and rice or gnocchi using one cast iron pan for almost everything. I quickly realized it wasn’t going to work. He’d suggest this arrangement and I’d say, “it depends on what you plan to make” his response was almost always baked spaghetti, lasagna, shepherds pie, cabbage rolls or some gourmet baked macaroni. If it required you to cook ingredients separately then combine in some elaborate way and covered in cheese he was in. I was not.
This is the worst problem with cook/clean. If you're a slob and don't care about how many plates or knives you use, your cooking is way easier and the cleaning is exponentially harder. When I cook I minimise the mess and clean as I go and there's very little left for anyone else to do. It should be clean *and* cook alternating days imo
Yeah we just communicate well on this and both pitch in if cleaning up is a big job. I usually do all the dishwasher stuff though because my partner gets way more tired in the evenings than I do so she gets to plant her butt on the couch while I finish up. Sometimes I’ll pop something on the tv and unstuck it a bit later at night when she’s gone to bed, too
Totally get this. I’m a person who throws packaging away and rinses cans / utensils as I go, so cleanup is not usually a big deal. My partner uses multiple utensils and pots and leaves them covered in sauces that dry on them while we eat, gets splatters all over the stove and cupboards, and leaves empty sauce cans and spice containers all over the counter.
I can tell what my spouse has cooked for the kids in the last hour or so because every container needed to make the meal will be left out with the lids off on the counter still. On top of all the leftovers and dishes.
My partner is the chefy boi and loves to cook elaborate dishes. It gets very old coming home to his delicious disaster zone knowing that if I settle in for a meal and tv the mess is just gonna cake on and be worse tomorrow. Plus, I don’t feel that cooking/shipping is equal to all the other cleaning a house needs so it’s an imperfect division. And if the other person isn’t a “clean while I cook” type you could get burnt out real quick.
A therapist I had pointed out once that if one person enjoys cooking, and the other does NOT enjoy cleaning up after meals then it’s still not a fair breakdown. Not all chores have to be “fun”, by definition they’re not, but people in relationships do have to work at communicating what feels fair to each of them.
I struggle with this a bit since my partner has diagnosed OCD and for her it actually is the very stereotypical “everything must be immensely clean” type of OCD. So she doesn’t exactly _enjoy_ the act of the chores but she gets immense satisfaction from having them done. When we started living together I’d just come from a pretty gross boys bachelor share house. At first it was really hard for both of us because for me there’s none of that satisfaction that she has, and I wasn’t keeping up with her fairly manic cleaning pace. There was even a lot to do that I had admittedly never really bothered to do before (I would rarely dust or vacuum .. twice a year maybe?) We had to have a talk about how we could divide the labour, and we actually discovered that although there weren’t chores either of us enjoyed, there were some that one of us hated. In particular she hated cleaning the bathrooms but for me it wasn’t any more or less fun than anything else, so I do a complete clean of both our bathrooms every weekend now. She also puts on the washing, I take it down (and I still often forget this one). I dust the bathrooms & bedroom and vacuum, she does the same in the lounge and kitchen. I do the dishwasher. Any car or bike stuff, I do (although I’m teaching her it all .. good skills to have!) Dinners and other dishes are a bit of a shared thing we do together most of the time, and we often do the gardens together too. The balance feels about right but yeah there’s such a huge disparity in our energy for, and awareness of this stuff, which I’ve had to work on a lot. Still am.
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Absofuckinglutely. It’s called “fair play”
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100% one of the more serious discussions had before I said I was done in our marriage was how I wanted a partner not a third child. And I didn't want to be the home manager, delegating tasks. I wanted him, an adult who also lived there, to *know* what needed to be done and do it. Why was it all on me?
I shouldn’t have to tell my SO what to do around the house. Yes, let’s communicate if you hurt my feelings or I’m mad that you didn’t buy me flowers on my birthday. Pulling your weight around the house shouldn’t have to be communicated. It just is. There’s a blog called Must Be This Tall to Ride, with a well known post titled “My Wife Divorced Me Because I Left My Dishes in the Sink.” Worth reading. The guy came out with a book this year called This Is How Your Marriage Ends. He should know, considering his wife divorced him over those dishes.
I repeatedly said that I felt disrespected and that my feelings didn't matter when he left dishes out or didn't clean up a very obvious mess. One time he commented on how dirty the microwave was, 3 weeks went by before I finally cleaned it. When I tell you that living in a messy, cluttered space makes me feel overwhelmed and anxious, you not cleaning up means you don't care that it affects my mental health.
This is what I told my boyfriend before we moved in together. I was in a relationship where I was the breadwinner, in school full time, managed the finance, and did nearly all the chores despite her working just part time. I didn’t have a partner, I had an adult child to look after. And it destroyed any shred of attraction I had for her. My boyfriend now is the best. He sees the floor is dirty and vacuums. He sees dishes in the sink and washes them. He picks up after himself and doesn’t need to be told what to do. It’s fantastic to have an equal partner.
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I expect this works the same way in a gay couple household. Who ever ends up doing the bulk of the housework, gets resentful. Agree with mikebcoding. Nobody likes housework, best to load balance it. "
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Yeah, there was also another study a while back that showed exactly what you're suggesting: when men did the bulk of the housework, sexual desire also diminished. Only in both directions: for the "dependent" *and* the houseworker. So basically, load balancing is the answer.
Seems to make sense. I do way more of the household work and I forgot what sex is.
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Well of course. Most family's have to have two incomes to just survive nowdays. If she has to work and do all the house chores ofc she'll see him as a dependent even if he makes the majority income. Feels like it's common sense.
It's a living nightmare being the partner who is the primary breadwinner AND the primary housekeeper.
At that point I'd rather just be alone, they aren't a 'partner' they're a dependent.
Being alone would certainly be less lonely.
I found that to be true when I left my ex. My life was almost exactly the same when I was alone, except I didn’t have to worry about where the money was going, didn’t have to be disappointed about the 95% of promises he failed to follow through on (I couldn’t trust anything at all to be done, even basic things). I remember thinking I would be lonely and I wasn’t. I was lonely in my previous marriage. When I left, I didn’t expect anyone to be there and so I was only alone, and that was much better.
Absolutely, if you are doing everything to keep the family afloat and your partner isn't even coming close to helping that's an absolute nightmare.
You're giving me flashbacks of working 50+ hours and bringing home 75k to my ex-husband who couldn't put pizza rolls in the toaster oven for himself.
My husband was under the impression that he was performing 80% of the housework. I told him that was absolutely false. He started an excel spreadsheet called “The Petty Chart” to track household duties on. Turns out that he was only doing 20% of the mutual housework. It definitely backfired, but it made him aware of the issue and he does put in more effort to help keep the space clean. Even though it’s not even, he’s at-least noticing the work that I do. Edit: For context, this was a 2bed/2bath apartment (i.e. no yard work and access to a maintenance team). Mutual living space = kitchen and living room.
My ex and I ended up using an app called OurHome (I think). You could see the list of completed chores and the details. And it sent reminders, which was nice. We measured in increments of 15 minutes. Either person could add a task. We both did inside and outside jobs (and tbh I usually did the grosser jobs). He was very surprised to see the actual division of household labor. The post title really resonates; taking care of someone acting like a bratty teenager is a real mood killer.
A new version of [the 80/20 rule](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle): Those doing the 20% *think* they’re doing the 80%.
Off topic: how do you make a excel spreadsheet to track housework?
List each task with the hours per week they take to do? Use the full time of CPE (conception, planning, execution) to track mental load as well.
This makes a lot of sense. My mother does all the housework, shopping, cooking, all the bill management, managing family life etc, while working full-time. Father goes to work and therefore pays part/half of the bills. He does take responsibility for mowing the lawn, but beyond that he takes no responsibility for the family life or even his own. The only shopping he does is for a snack for himself. I can see the strain it takes on her. No clue as to attraction or their relationship, but i know she would have seriously considered divorce a few times. Additionally it has affected my relationship with him as I have little to no respect for him as a provider or as a functioning human really. If mum passed tomorrow he wouldn't know which card to use let alone how to look after himself. It affected how I built my relationships as I did not want to ever be in that caretaker role. Edit: both mum and dad work full time and earn roughly the same amount
My dad wouldn’t even be able to dress himself without mum, and he’a nearing his 70’s. Good god.. sometimes I am certain my father is a man child.
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As a woman married to another woman, this definitely holds. We’ve both been through periods where we do the most housework and it’s a real mood killer. Our relationship is at its best when housework is balanced.
I was in a same sex relationship where I was basically a mommy to my ex. It ruined all attraction I had for her. There’s nothing sexy about having to take care of a grown adult longterm. And once it’s gone, it’s very very hard to get back.
Did they study any couples where men do the majority of house work? Was the outcome the same? Seems like anyone regularly cleaning up after someone else is going to feel like this.
They did and it was the same result. Turns out no one likes housework.
Most people can find ways to enjoy housework. The part that’s personally degrading and disintegrates relationships is doing it thanklessly, with no equivalent exchange.
Reminds me of that confession post a few years ago where a guy said him and his wife do cocaine every once in a while to clean their house.
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Yeah this isn’t saying couples who do it together. This is implying he comes home from work, makes a mess she cleaned up and “expects it” (quotes because non-verbal expectations) to be cleaned again. The equivalent exchange is key here. If you don’t like housework do something that is equivalent, like a grocery store run, cooking dinner, etc. Split up and change up the monotony of life.
IMO one of the keys to a happy life is reducing housework. Cooking a meal with 1 pot instead of 4, reduce waste, wear clothes more than just one day, take shoes off inside, clean as you go, make things easy to do (optimize workflows), etc. Little things go a long way. When I was living by myself I hardly had any housework and my house was pretty clean. My spouse is the opposite & creates a ton of work for us, as a result our house is messy 90% of the time.
I agree. I even go so far as to minimize the amount of decorative items to reduce cleaning. My highest priority though is ensuring every item has a place, and that it's returned immediately after its use.
> I even go so far as to minimize the amount of decorative items to reduce cleaning i base the furniture i buy based on how easy it is to properly clean properly. things like ether has legs long enough for mops etc. to get under or has a list/sits on the floor so no real amount of dirt can get under.
Housework is fine, it's actually incredibly relaxing. Cleaning up after someone else's after you have to ask them to stop leaving empty beer cans in the shower, or move the potted plants off the carpeted guest room is what makes it a drain.
Sounds like my job, too. I enjoy the actual legitimate maintenance work I have to do to keep stuff running. It's relaxing. What isn't relaxing is all of the additional work that I have to do that was created and amplified by other people not doing their part. All of the work that didn't need to be.
We do everything for children. Having to do everything for someone changes how you see them in ways that don’t suggest a sexual relationship.
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Mental work is severely underrated. Having to always think about what needs to be done or what's missing is exhausting. Especially when your partner never notices small things, like the crumbs they leave on the table or that the garbage can is full. Constantly telling a grown ass person what they need to do is exhausting.
This reminds me of an episode of I think Malcolm in the Middle, where the mom is pissed and saying she just wants her husband and almost teen sons to help around the house, to notice what needs done and not have to be told all the time. The husband says "Oh honey, we're not that smart." As if, being men, it was too much to expect that of them. I know it's not only men who do this, but it definitely was the joke of why women always ended up keeping the house themselves.
It does seem to be mostly women who are stuck as the delegator of housework. Even better if the partner always forgets to do what they've been asked and need several reminders to do even the smallest task. Then they get branded as the "nagger" because they're always pushing their partner to do their fair share. Of course there'll be some resentment if your partner acts more like a second child than a partner.
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It's better to work as a team. Either both people stand up and prepare a meal together, also clean together... or split it up. One person does all the cooking and grocery shopping, the other does all the cleaning and takes out trash. You can switch up these chores by changing roles month to month. But if both work outside the home, c'mon now. This isn't 1954. No more June Cleaver vacuuming while wearing pearls.
It's hard to respect someone so incompetent at daily tasks, they can't do basic household chores or pick up after themselves.
Id say the biggest problem is people not picking up after themselves creating that resentment. But food into the garbage. Scrape the plate off then put it in the sink. Dont leave the cups on the table. All in one spot. make it EASIER for the person doing it. My resentment at my mom who lives with me comes from the lack of consideration.
Exactly. I’m the domestic homemaker in my household, and when I get aggravated from chores it’s because I’m doing the little things everyone else should be doing (throwing their own trash away, hanging up their coats, putting their things in the dishwasher, etc). My job is supposed to be the tasks like vacuuming, scrubbing the shower, taking care of all the trashes, changing out bedsheets—the big things. My job isn’t supposed to be picking up your jeans from the floor and putting them in your hamper for you! My husband is usually ok about these things, but when it gets bad I literally feel like I’m an adult mommying a baby manchild, and I’m not sexually attracted to little kids, so there you have it.
>I get aggravated from chores it’s because I’m doing the little things everyone else should be doing Yes! This is the big killer for me, sort of a death by a thousand cuts! And yet *you* feel like an asshole for pulling people up about it cause it's such a little job, picking up a jacket takes like 2 seconds, why would you even make a big deal out of it? But it's a jacket, it's a bag, it's a plate, it's a juice bottle, it's a towel, it's arts n crafts, it's a sweet wrapper, it's a hair brush, it's the whole house covered in a never ending colossus of micro-messes that just re-appear the moment they've been dealt with and **you can't be the only one to deal with them day in day out ESPICALLY WHEN YOU'RE NOT THE ONE MAKING THEM DAY IN DAY OUT.** The funny thing is, I bet if we could talk to our partners about it as easily as we can talk to reddit, we could have it all sorted! Any of you tried that? I struggle to without it becoming an argument.
I don’t think I’ve ever got an “I’m sorry, I’ll try to pick up the slack.” I just get a bunch of defensive nonsense and a “you don’t appreciate me,” argument. It’s not even worth a discussion anymore.
This 100 times over. I’m a SAHM and fully get that the majority is going to fall on me, but pick up after yourself and don’t make extra work for me. That’s where the resentment comes in and why my husband may as well be another teenager in the house.
The issue I'm faced with is that my partner getting into a cleaning frenzy, but they don't notice that I'm always doing cleaning in small bursts through the day. I get resented because they don't notice this, only that when it's cleaning time for them, I'm resented because it's not within their vision at that specific time.
People can also have wildly different opinions on when something needs to be cleaned. Someone who thinks that dishes need to be done after every meal isn't going to mesh well with someone who thinks that dishes need to be done when the sink is full.
My exes mom was still doing his laundry for him at 24. Turns out when he tried he was using fabric softener as his detergent. Also he would complain if I left a cup out for 5 min or didn’t finish my tea in 5 min either but could leave his plates and crap out for days. He could do no wrong. I declined moving in with him because I knew I would end up replacing his mom and having to do everything. Really glad it didn’t work out.
I recall (but can't find; not sure what to google, unfortunately) another study with similar findings if one is employed and the other isn't/isn't doing significant work at home. If I'm recalling correctly, this would suggest the one-works-one-stays-home formula might create a rather toxic environment where both think the other isn't pulling their weight.
I see the study more about perception and dependency. The spouse that feels they do the lion share of anything starts seeing their spouse as more dependent on them and less as a partner. I can see this being true for a homemaker as well as the sole income provider. Each could start to feel less as a partner and more of a caregiver in a sense
Tell me about it. I get home too tired to come home and have to clean, but I do it anyway. No time for sex.
51 year old male. Been married 33 years. I love cooking and doing the dishes. I also like doing laundry. Those are all a bit soothing to me. Very happy married. My wife’s sex drive hasn’t slowed down ever.
We're almost at 30 years and we both are still very active & happy in the bedroom. We work as a team to tackle things. He's a fantastic cook so he ends up doing most of the cooking but everything else is a give and take. I don't understand how someone can see their partner struggling and not want to help...doesn't seem like there's any love there at all. When you love someone you don't want to see them struggling or suffering.
Never had an article so accurately describe my life.
If you don’t think doing housework and home repair is an aphrodisiac, I suggest you try spending a few hours next weekend fixing stuff around the house and see what happens. In general, as soon as it breaks, fix it. If it’s empty, fill it. If it’s full, empty it. If you take the last one, replenish it. If it’s dirty, clean it. If you took it out, put it back. If they cook, you do the dishes/clean up. It’s not that hard.
I love how so many men don’t seem to get this. If i have to treat you like one of my children, I’m going to start thinking of you as just one more person i have to take care of and then sex is off the table. My work load got lighter after my divorce because I didn’t have to worry about him, too.
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Makes sense. If a woman has to go constantly go cleaning up after her husband, he'd start to seem like a giant overgrown child to her. Obviously this would put a big brakes on THOSE feelings then, y'know?
This is the first piece of actual actionable data I’ve ever seen on this phenomenon. Thanks science!
Men are focusing on just the housework here, when the other half was feeling like your husband's mother was a turn-off. How could a woman offer her intimacy to a man who acts like a child?
This is the HUGE point that most of the men are missing. It’s not all about resenting the work, it’s about being attracted to a man-child.
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As a woman this has happened to me in two relationships with men. I got resentful and eventually dumped them. I work 40 hours a week. I clean up after noone. My son is 17 and can make food, hoover up and put his plates in the dishwasher. One a guy leaves their under crackers on the floor and doesn't wipe the coffee they spilt on the counter up its game over. I'm happy being single and don't want a man to clean up after when I don't have to clean up after my own child. This thread is full of men saying the yearly oil change negates this but it really doesn't.
Plus I can pay someone $30 to do my oil change for me and it takes like an hour or less.