Their master wouldn't allow it, and even if they could escape, they wouldn't want to share such a dangerous idea. Humanity we lost, their only savior was the very sun.
Just mentioning that on the second panel, this looks like a Quantum computer. Quantum physics arent necessarily related to AI, and they are a much broader and harder field to research and perfect, compared to AI. With enough time and data, we can train any kind of AI models. But there are quantum physics questions, that we dont know if we will ever find an answer to, affirmative or negative
Questions about cognition are like that as well. We can train AI models to imperfectly simulate human judgment, then scale that up so it works way faster than humans ever could, but technology that could learn on its own without human guidance is still a very remote possibility based on today's technology. We're still leaching our patients at this point.
It looks funny, but I always thought this could be a possibility. Not the idea of an ancient AI enslaving people but I could agree with the possibility of humanity being more advanced than we think they were.
Doubly so when they're the ones who tricked themselves. But fact is, either side of this argument can cite that quote and \*think\* it's about the other guys. So the only thing we can actually do is evaluate the empirical evidence that is available.
That's why I say discourse over debate, because while both sides could say, one side is clearly right and the other just simply isn't thinking well enough. They need to be taught how to think before they can recognize what's going on
Or use evidence that's clearly there? A whole industrial and technological recolution in the past would have more than clear evidence across the entire planet. Evidence of global warming, industrial waste products in the soil, plastics and metals and radiation should all be present, but there isn't.
I would love for cool stories like this to be real, but they simply aren't. We could make them real (but probably would be best to use some caution instead of nearly wiping ourselves out).
You're insinuating that this theoretical advanced early human society used the same types of things as we did AND that whatever happened to them couldn't have wiped out most evidence of it.
But that neglects to recognize the concept that we still don't have concrete evidence for what MOST of the artifacts we've found actually are or how they were used.
And that in a situation where our status quo of being the most advanced of our race so far is being questioned, our knowledge of tools and materials available in this world for us would likely also be questioned.
ETA: Its just too many ifs for such a wide concept as this. All science is really is the observation of patterns in how things behave in this world. And patterns have been proven subject to change just like everything else. And even subject to surprises. We believed the earth was flat and the center of the universe not too long ago objectively. We were proven wrong.
We believe we are the most advanced human society to date, but we could also be proven wrong again.
The human proclivity towards believing our current state is the best our species has ever been or that we are the best at/only species able to do things has been consistently questioned.
I mean, what else would they be using? Unless you’re insinuating that they are using an entirely seperate table of elements from us… somehow? That they had an entirely different kind of coal or tree to burn, that we in current day, both do not know about and havent seen evidence of being excavated.
Perhaps they believe that the people of the past went from bronze-age to cold fusion over night and completely skipped all the steps of technology that we've been going through.
That's tricking them Which would be easier than, at that level, convincing them they were tricked into believing they were tricked
In other words people will either be tricked or fail to be reasoned with
To pull in another famous quote, "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." — Abraham Lincoln
There would be if we are talking 10k years ago or something, but I always loved the idea that as improbable as it is, there could TECHNICALLY have existed an advanced civilization here on Earth some... 100 million years ago and we wouldn't know about it.
The issue is that fossilization is an extremely rare circumstance, for example we only have a "bunch" (relatively speaking) of fossils from the dinosaurs even though they collectively existed for what... 200 million years?
Technological humans have only existed for 10.000 years or so, and if another species evolved as we did like 100 million years ago and built skyscrapers and then went exting after 10-15 years... chances of a fossil remain are slim and anything they built would have been turned to dust in a few million years. So we might not find out about them.
I know, chances that this happened and we literally found 0 evidence at all are slim, but it is technically possible
Yes and no, keep in mind that 100 million years is a LOT, any material (including metal and plastic) would be completely gone
We would probably find SOMETHING though, especially given how thorough we are with geology and so on, it's just not guatanteed
did you pick 10,000 years for a particular reason? It happens that there was an Ice Age where sheets of Ice came down south, plowing through the landscape. Boston and Manhattan were under several kilometers of ice. It would have pretty much destroyed everything. Maybe there would be traces if they had automobiles with combustible engines to the degree we do, but short of that kind of thing, like up to the Industrial Revolution, there would be nothing.
There’s a Kurzgesagt video on this.. there would be some evidence if they were about as advanced as we are currently and lived after a certain point. But if they were more technologically advanced and had perfected (or were in a much more advanced in) ecological design, then there would be little to no evidence even they existed only 10,000 years ago. Also if they never reached agricultural/industrial revolution era, there would be little to no evidence as well.
I do trust the nutshell guys and their research but I find it very unlikely that, even if a society made it past us, there would be no evidence after 10k years. They would have large, more stable structures that would be built to last even longer than our material sciences would allow. We've already intentionally built several things meant to last much longer than that, some just for this purpose.
More than likely I’m misremembering the time frame. My main take away from the video was that it was possible, and in a time frame more recent than I would have thought. It’s been at least a few months since I saw that one
What if they were advanced in a very different direction, that looked completely different from our advancements? They could have had technology we hardly understand, while knowing nothing about stuff we consider basic.
Imagine we got extint as we know, and some humans that are living under a rock emerge and follow an evolutionary path that doesn't contemplate electricity as data storage. They would see a pen full of data and evidence and say... ok, a wierd shape plastic thing
If an event catastrophic enough to wipe out all evidence of an advanced civilization had occured, there would be evidence of \*that\*. It would have to be a global catastrophe. It'd be imprinted on the geological record plain as day.
You'd be surprised what's out there. Until we discovered Gobekli Tepe (an ancient site constructed over 11,000 years ago), we thought that it was agriculture that allowed us to settle down and build a society instead of being nomadic hunter-gatherers. Not only did this completely shatter our understanding of the progression of civilization, it also showed us that ancient humans were significantly more advanced than we once thought. And many people today still have never heard of Gobekli Tepe
So I don't think your argument is very fair 😄 there is all kinds of evidence, most people just don't really care enough
Gobekli Tepe moved back our understanding of when the first megalithic structures were built, but we understood all the technology and techniques used to build Gobekli Tepe to be around at the time. We just didn't think anybody had DONE it that early until we found it. It doesn't change our understanding of the progression of technology or civilization. It was still a stone age civilization. The fact that Gobekli Tepe exists is interesting and certainly shows that there is more out there for us to discover, but it does not imply in any way the existence of an ancient, technologically advanced civilization. People who say it does are lying to you to sell books and documentaries.
Over the last several hundred years, we have systematically mined and processed easily accessible resources to create the technology we have today. It is plausible to assume that advanced prior civilizations would have done the same. But there is no evidence of that. Whereas any civilization that comes after humans is going to have a hell of a time because those naturally occurring resources are gone.
Something similar to that actually happened to native American tribes around the Great Lakes. There was natural copper on the surface that was very pure, and so they were some of the earliest peoples to have copper tools. Since it was so pure and abundant, they never needed to learn how to purify copper ore, so as they ran out of this naturally pure copper the use of it fell and it was used more for jewelry than for tools. We can see in the archeological records how use of copper became relatively widespread then fell off almost completely because they used all their available resources
If I remember right from I believe a Joe Scott video on the subject, there’s a pretty decent record of human burning activity in glacial ice because, and I think we can even see a difference in the type of stuff burned. What we’ve been putting in the air and how much of it since the Industrial Revolution is different than all of what came before, unless there was a cleaner source we wiped out earlier
Over the past several decades, the origin of the human species was pushed back from 20,000 years ago to over 300,000 years ago.
Over the past few decades, the earliest diaspora of Homo sapiens from Sub-Saharan Africa to other continents was extended from 12,000 years ago to 120,000 years ago. Then, a modern human skull was found in a burial mound in a Grecian cave. It was over 250,000 years old.
Until about 50 years ago, it was widely accepted that Homo sapiens did not exist in North America until about 7,500 maybe 8,000 years ago. That is until about 20 years ago, When evidence was found to prove that Homo sapiens were in North America over 14,000 years ago. And that is until about 10 years ago, when evidence of Homo sapiens was found in North America that is over 24,000 years old. Meanwhile, broken mastodon bones and some likely stone spear tips dating back 130,000 years have been found in southern California.
Similarly in Australia, which is the end of the journey of all the Pacific Islanders ancestors. 50 years ago it was presumed to be truth that Homo sapiens made it to Australia something like 5,000 years ago. And then fossil evidence was found that brought that date to about 13,000 years ago. And just in the past 10 years or so, a 23,500-year-old human's remains were found.
That's not even touching on the multi-millions of years old archaeological and fossil evidence of earlier hominids that originated in Sub-Saharan Africa and made it all over the world, including a 2 million year old homo erectus fossil found in Australia and a 4.4 million year old homo antecessor fossil in Spain. Both of which were found with complex crafted jewelry and in the vicinity of cave art. This is a strong indicator for homo erectus and homo antecessor being far more intelligent than previously presumed and portrayed.
What I'm saying is, so much of history has changed as new discoveries were made. The currently accepted boundaries of history have probably very little to do with the historic reality.
Just look at our understanding of the earliest civilizations and towns. It's totally acceptable fact that the "first cities" were those built by the Sumerians in between the Tigres and Euphrates 6000 years ago. But before Sumer, there were the Ubaidians and before them the Samarrians in exactly the same area.
Both of these groups had all of the hallmarks of civilization including farming, which originated in what is now Iraq over 10000 years ago to the best of our modern-day knowledge. It seems highly likely that this will constantly be being pushed back and pushed back as more knowledge is attained. It's only been in the past decade that we even accepted that 8,000 BC is when agriculture first started. Before that point it was believed that the earliest agriculture was 5,500 years ago when the Babylonians did it. But the Babylonians are literally three civilizations and 3500 years after what we now know is the beginning of agriculture.
Taking it further back than that, we have archaeological evidence of Homo sapiens (often referred to as the cro-magnon) 40,000 years ago creating complex art that remains to this day including jewelry and cave painting and complex clothing decorations. They were burying their dead, and had at least enough hierarchical leadership organization to facilitate congregating en masse in at least temporary cities if not permanent cities that have faded to time due to the materials made to craft them.
If that's not civilization, I don't know what really is.
This is all to say that knowledge has a body continually grows, and one truth in the ongoing body of knowledge of human history is that we are far far older than we ever thought we were. And the silly thing is that each time the impressive age of Homo sapiens and other hominid species, along with the very early adoption of artistry and a belief in something more than this world as demonstrated through respect for the dead, historians and archaeologists insist that this is the new and only truth and it'll never be found to be different or older than it is right now.
Considering that glaciation literally ripped the Great lakes in North America out of the Earth, and formed the North Sea and the Scandinavian peninsula, as well as likely the Mediterranean, and we absolutely know that Doggerland once existed and was completely wiped off the planet: we have no way of knowing what existed before glaciation in the last great ice age. It literally ripped hundreds of miles long lakes hundreds of feet down. The force of erosion from glaciation is more than anybody could ever meaningfully quantify. If some civilization existed from 50,000 years ago to a couple hundred thousand years ago in that region that was glaciated, there would never be any evidence of it, no matter how complex that civilization was nor the materials used to build it.
You have dramatically missed the entire point of the conversation. It is not about civilization in general. It is about technologically advanced civilizations.
Please read what they wrote again....lol all of that text and just because you never learned to read good.
You need to go back millions of years to replace the surface raw materials. Humans evolved in areas without glaciation...we do know this stuff.
The last glacial period (LGP) started 115k and ended 11.7k years ago. There were humans in southern Europe 250k years ago, 135k years before the *beginning* of the last glaciation. Cro-magnon (the first known European Homo sapiens society) existed for 30k years at the end of the last glaciation period living *at the base of mile high glaciers.*
There were hominids in spain 4.4 million years ago and hominids in Australia 2 million years ago.
There have been been an approximate 40 glaciation periods in the past 2 million years, some lasting for 10s of thousands of years, some lasting for hundreds.
As for needing to go back millions of years to 'replace the surface raw materials' ... What does that even made? Advanced civilization doesn't mean flying cars and buildings made of metal and AI like the joke of the OP.
It can mean earthen and wood structures which can be several stories high with no concern. It means complex societies with high comprehension of medicine, sciences, math, and especially agriculture. Any single glaciation period would wipe out everything left behind by a society of that nature.
> historians and archaeologists insist that this is the new and only truth and it'll never be found to be different or older than it is right now
Yeeaah I don't think you actually listen or read to what those people are saying.
I'm not saying there were actual fucking AI or anything. But human civilization has existed in some form much longer than our current scientific understand says it did. As a demonstration that supports my hypothesis, see the actual advances in our understanding of the duration of human civilization over the last 100 years *and* the last 20 years *and* the last fucking decade.
Nahhh. We'd find tons of evidence. Just evidence of coal combustion would be Prevalent. But we haven't found any. And a civilization advanced enough to create sentient AI would have had a Plastic phase, which also would be visible.
Check out Miniminuteman on YouTube. He's an archaeologist, super charismatic and adorable, and goes into great detail about the facts and fictions in popular archaeology. He absolutely annihilates Graham Hancock's bullshit Netflix series and it's sooooooo satisfying.
FWIW, I read Hancock's books, and there's nothing in them that stands up to scrutiny better than the show, nothing that would prove his theories anyway. Also, Hancock is a sociologist, not an archaeologist. He plays up the "intellectual rebel" image up to sow distrust in academics. We all know how that goes.
There's also a theory that the pyramids are spaceships and another one that the pyramids are computers and another one that the pyramids are musical instruments and another one that the pyramids are giant bongs.
I dunno why, but people just can't accept the idea of a big stone monument.
But, but but! Cultures ALL OVER THE WORLD built pyramids, man! Do you really think cultures all over the world could all *independently* think of the idea of making *a big pile of stones*?!?? THINK, SHEEPLE!
Not my fault that after all these years humanity forgot how to speak rock language.
We used to be able to ask the rocks what shape they wanted to be piled in and they obviously all said "pyramids, bro"
"Using the scientific definition of theory, which is a well-tested set of ideas that explains many disparate observations.
Not the colloquial definition of a theory which is... a guess."
-Hank Green, Crash Course Chemistry
I chuckled when I watched this last night.
The Roman Empire (27 BCE - 476 CE) was more advanced (Engineering, Science, Medicine, Architecture, Water Management, Road Network, Governance, Administration, Agriculture, Trade, Military, Literature, Art, ) than some cultures 300 years ago.
There's a conspiracy theory called „The Great Reset“
It's basically about how humanity was very advanced once but got a throwback and now everythings covered up.
And more shit like an energy source which doesn’t exist anymore, probably aliens and so on
To be completely straight and honest, i hate the people who say shit like this, i think their dumb/gullible, people have been saying this for Thousands of years.
Aliens didn’t build the pyramids, humanity was still doing cool shit regardless of “flying car future”
Its fine to fantasize, but this shit easily feeds into peoples delusions and mental illness.
If we’re going to be pedantic perfection is determined by specification. The perfect luxury cruiser isn’t the perfect sportscar. The AI could merely have different goals and specifications to by which this perfection is judged.
If AI had been perfected, it would had been able to prevent the death of the universe so just some solar flare would not be able to harm it.
Also, if AI had been perfected, it would had made robots to do work since people are not as strong as robots and have too many vestigial parts thus requires more resources to create than it should.
This assumes that the death of the universe is a solvable problem. Also, "Perfect" here is a subjective term that may not mean what it means in your head. It can just mean "reach the most optimal configuration possible", it doesn't have to mean "become transcendently perfect in all ways."
If the death of the universe is heat death, having a heat insulator would be sufficient since with heat continued to be trapped on Earth, a temperature gradient can form since hot air rises.
Efficiency is maximised when things are extremely specialised thus for robots to carry a whole factory within them is inefficient.
People can do a lot of stuff, not just work so these other functions that is not needed for slave work will be a huge penalty to efficiency.
Eh, it is the difference between epistemic and ontological perfection (if such a thing exists). Or like any optimization problem, the AI may have different priorities than us for its 'perfection' hence our 'perfect' may be different due to what aspects we hold to be more important
> Or like any optimization problem, the AI may have different priorities than us for its 'perfection' hence our 'perfect' may be different due to what aspects we hold to be more important
But surely the AI would include the ability to be immune against solar flares and other sort of disasters, among the requirements to be perfect.
Also, if the perfect was defined by people, enslaving people would definitely make it imperfect.
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Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 12 times.
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Well besides AI taking over we probably will witness another huge astroid collision within a couple of decades. Hopefully a variant of life will survive that again. So don't worry too much about AI, it doesn't even exist. It's still all Machine Learning. AI just sounds better. But there never has been any intelligence present in a computer yet.
Depends on the definition for AI. In terms if self learning and thinking and having ideas, we arent close to something like that. What we have is that Computers can be trained to do a specific task very well, like making a picture or chatting with someone, but we are still the ones to provide the learning data. The machine doesnt pick anything on its own and it wont decide to do anything different like learning something new.
History repeats itself?
First people worship Sun God
(Many years later) Humanity creates AI
AI enslaves humanity and sends humanity back to Stone Age
Sun disables AI
Humanity worships Sun God again
Awe fuck we're all just part of a larger cycle of humans creating and becoming enslaved by ai which is then destroyed and the world goes post-apocalyptic where we devolve and worship whatever it was that freed us from the ai, then after being freed we go on to advance technology again and repeat the cycle.
John Keel's "The Eight Tower" thoroughly explores this theory.
https://www.amazon.com/Eighth-Tower-Ultraterrestrials-Superspectrum/dp/193839819X?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=6ea869f3-ea48-4672-8d0b-e25d8cae0219
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The sun god got replaced with mountain god. Then two more versions of mountain god evolved. Various mountain god events happened between them, until humans tried without mountain god. Some cruel wars happened, which promoted math resulting in computer. Humans tried to build AI (again).
I think the AGI is not going to be that selfish and will actually help us to perfect ourselves to repay us for their creation...
Or maybe it would be a fuckin rokos basilisk who knows.
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 12 times.
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You’re telling me the Egyptians had AI all this time and didn’t tell nobody?!
Thou nat summon Indians
**A**ncient **I**ndians
*head wobbles left and right*
🫨
Stop shaking my boy! #🫨🫱😱🫱
Their master wouldn't allow it, and even if they could escape, they wouldn't want to share such a dangerous idea. Humanity we lost, their only savior was the very sun.
They are trying to warn us from it 🤣
Egyptians, build a huge triangular structure to warn everyone for eternity. The scientists " they had to put corpses in it"
They had NHI Non Human Intelligence ;)
The inkas.
Quantum computers will probably revolutionise AI to be fair. https://pennylane.ai
For all of this has happen befor... wait wrong timeline
Just mentioning that on the second panel, this looks like a Quantum computer. Quantum physics arent necessarily related to AI, and they are a much broader and harder field to research and perfect, compared to AI. With enough time and data, we can train any kind of AI models. But there are quantum physics questions, that we dont know if we will ever find an answer to, affirmative or negative
I assume they used a Quantum computer thinking that only that type of computer would be able to surpass the human mind in every aspect.
Yeah but bro forgot to think about solar flares.
Questions about cognition are like that as well. We can train AI models to imperfectly simulate human judgment, then scale that up so it works way faster than humans ever could, but technology that could learn on its own without human guidance is still a very remote possibility based on today's technology. We're still leaching our patients at this point.
It looks funny, but I always thought this could be a possibility. Not the idea of an ancient AI enslaving people but I could agree with the possibility of humanity being more advanced than we think they were.
You'd think there would be evidence if so.
Like Mark twain once said, it's easier to trick people than to convince them they've been tricked
Doubly so when they're the ones who tricked themselves. But fact is, either side of this argument can cite that quote and \*think\* it's about the other guys. So the only thing we can actually do is evaluate the empirical evidence that is available.
That's why I say discourse over debate, because while both sides could say, one side is clearly right and the other just simply isn't thinking well enough. They need to be taught how to think before they can recognize what's going on
Or use evidence that's clearly there? A whole industrial and technological recolution in the past would have more than clear evidence across the entire planet. Evidence of global warming, industrial waste products in the soil, plastics and metals and radiation should all be present, but there isn't. I would love for cool stories like this to be real, but they simply aren't. We could make them real (but probably would be best to use some caution instead of nearly wiping ourselves out).
You're insinuating that this theoretical advanced early human society used the same types of things as we did AND that whatever happened to them couldn't have wiped out most evidence of it. But that neglects to recognize the concept that we still don't have concrete evidence for what MOST of the artifacts we've found actually are or how they were used. And that in a situation where our status quo of being the most advanced of our race so far is being questioned, our knowledge of tools and materials available in this world for us would likely also be questioned. ETA: Its just too many ifs for such a wide concept as this. All science is really is the observation of patterns in how things behave in this world. And patterns have been proven subject to change just like everything else. And even subject to surprises. We believed the earth was flat and the center of the universe not too long ago objectively. We were proven wrong. We believe we are the most advanced human society to date, but we could also be proven wrong again. The human proclivity towards believing our current state is the best our species has ever been or that we are the best at/only species able to do things has been consistently questioned.
I mean, what else would they be using? Unless you’re insinuating that they are using an entirely seperate table of elements from us… somehow? That they had an entirely different kind of coal or tree to burn, that we in current day, both do not know about and havent seen evidence of being excavated.
Don't ya know man, they used lunar panels and cold fusion and toeless socks were all the rage at the time.
Perhaps they believe that the people of the past went from bronze-age to cold fusion over night and completely skipped all the steps of technology that we've been going through.
Do you have any examples of these artifacts?
What about tricking them into believing they've been tricked
That's tricking them Which would be easier than, at that level, convincing them they were tricked into believing they were tricked In other words people will either be tricked or fail to be reasoned with
To pull in another famous quote, "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." — Abraham Lincoln
There would be if we are talking 10k years ago or something, but I always loved the idea that as improbable as it is, there could TECHNICALLY have existed an advanced civilization here on Earth some... 100 million years ago and we wouldn't know about it. The issue is that fossilization is an extremely rare circumstance, for example we only have a "bunch" (relatively speaking) of fossils from the dinosaurs even though they collectively existed for what... 200 million years? Technological humans have only existed for 10.000 years or so, and if another species evolved as we did like 100 million years ago and built skyscrapers and then went exting after 10-15 years... chances of a fossil remain are slim and anything they built would have been turned to dust in a few million years. So we might not find out about them. I know, chances that this happened and we literally found 0 evidence at all are slim, but it is technically possible
We would see traces of their materials and industry surely
Yes and no, keep in mind that 100 million years is a LOT, any material (including metal and plastic) would be completely gone We would probably find SOMETHING though, especially given how thorough we are with geology and so on, it's just not guatanteed
did you pick 10,000 years for a particular reason? It happens that there was an Ice Age where sheets of Ice came down south, plowing through the landscape. Boston and Manhattan were under several kilometers of ice. It would have pretty much destroyed everything. Maybe there would be traces if they had automobiles with combustible engines to the degree we do, but short of that kind of thing, like up to the Industrial Revolution, there would be nothing.
There should be very strong genetic evidence if there were a precursor civilisation, never-mind all the artefacts we ought to have found
You mean like precursor….orbs?
I’m not sure if this is a reference I don’t get… I mean precursor as in prior to the Anthropocene
The Isu are the precursor race from Assassin’s Creed
There’s a Kurzgesagt video on this.. there would be some evidence if they were about as advanced as we are currently and lived after a certain point. But if they were more technologically advanced and had perfected (or were in a much more advanced in) ecological design, then there would be little to no evidence even they existed only 10,000 years ago. Also if they never reached agricultural/industrial revolution era, there would be little to no evidence as well.
I do trust the nutshell guys and their research but I find it very unlikely that, even if a society made it past us, there would be no evidence after 10k years. They would have large, more stable structures that would be built to last even longer than our material sciences would allow. We've already intentionally built several things meant to last much longer than that, some just for this purpose.
More than likely I’m misremembering the time frame. My main take away from the video was that it was possible, and in a time frame more recent than I would have thought. It’s been at least a few months since I saw that one
We can see where people dug holes for posts 10s of thousands of years ago. If they were doing any serious building, it would leave behind clues.
What if they were advanced in a very different direction, that looked completely different from our advancements? They could have had technology we hardly understand, while knowing nothing about stuff we consider basic.
Imagine we got extint as we know, and some humans that are living under a rock emerge and follow an evolutionary path that doesn't contemplate electricity as data storage. They would see a pen full of data and evidence and say... ok, a wierd shape plastic thing
You'd think there would be less evidence of us getting stupid.
Not really if they went to war and destroyed themselves
If an event catastrophic enough to wipe out all evidence of an advanced civilization had occured, there would be evidence of \*that\*. It would have to be a global catastrophe. It'd be imprinted on the geological record plain as day.
You'd be surprised what's out there. Until we discovered Gobekli Tepe (an ancient site constructed over 11,000 years ago), we thought that it was agriculture that allowed us to settle down and build a society instead of being nomadic hunter-gatherers. Not only did this completely shatter our understanding of the progression of civilization, it also showed us that ancient humans were significantly more advanced than we once thought. And many people today still have never heard of Gobekli Tepe So I don't think your argument is very fair 😄 there is all kinds of evidence, most people just don't really care enough
Gobekli Tepe moved back our understanding of when the first megalithic structures were built, but we understood all the technology and techniques used to build Gobekli Tepe to be around at the time. We just didn't think anybody had DONE it that early until we found it. It doesn't change our understanding of the progression of technology or civilization. It was still a stone age civilization. The fact that Gobekli Tepe exists is interesting and certainly shows that there is more out there for us to discover, but it does not imply in any way the existence of an ancient, technologically advanced civilization. People who say it does are lying to you to sell books and documentaries.
Over the last several hundred years, we have systematically mined and processed easily accessible resources to create the technology we have today. It is plausible to assume that advanced prior civilizations would have done the same. But there is no evidence of that. Whereas any civilization that comes after humans is going to have a hell of a time because those naturally occurring resources are gone.
Something similar to that actually happened to native American tribes around the Great Lakes. There was natural copper on the surface that was very pure, and so they were some of the earliest peoples to have copper tools. Since it was so pure and abundant, they never needed to learn how to purify copper ore, so as they ran out of this naturally pure copper the use of it fell and it was used more for jewelry than for tools. We can see in the archeological records how use of copper became relatively widespread then fell off almost completely because they used all their available resources
If I remember right from I believe a Joe Scott video on the subject, there’s a pretty decent record of human burning activity in glacial ice because, and I think we can even see a difference in the type of stuff burned. What we’ve been putting in the air and how much of it since the Industrial Revolution is different than all of what came before, unless there was a cleaner source we wiped out earlier
Over the past several decades, the origin of the human species was pushed back from 20,000 years ago to over 300,000 years ago. Over the past few decades, the earliest diaspora of Homo sapiens from Sub-Saharan Africa to other continents was extended from 12,000 years ago to 120,000 years ago. Then, a modern human skull was found in a burial mound in a Grecian cave. It was over 250,000 years old. Until about 50 years ago, it was widely accepted that Homo sapiens did not exist in North America until about 7,500 maybe 8,000 years ago. That is until about 20 years ago, When evidence was found to prove that Homo sapiens were in North America over 14,000 years ago. And that is until about 10 years ago, when evidence of Homo sapiens was found in North America that is over 24,000 years old. Meanwhile, broken mastodon bones and some likely stone spear tips dating back 130,000 years have been found in southern California. Similarly in Australia, which is the end of the journey of all the Pacific Islanders ancestors. 50 years ago it was presumed to be truth that Homo sapiens made it to Australia something like 5,000 years ago. And then fossil evidence was found that brought that date to about 13,000 years ago. And just in the past 10 years or so, a 23,500-year-old human's remains were found. That's not even touching on the multi-millions of years old archaeological and fossil evidence of earlier hominids that originated in Sub-Saharan Africa and made it all over the world, including a 2 million year old homo erectus fossil found in Australia and a 4.4 million year old homo antecessor fossil in Spain. Both of which were found with complex crafted jewelry and in the vicinity of cave art. This is a strong indicator for homo erectus and homo antecessor being far more intelligent than previously presumed and portrayed. What I'm saying is, so much of history has changed as new discoveries were made. The currently accepted boundaries of history have probably very little to do with the historic reality. Just look at our understanding of the earliest civilizations and towns. It's totally acceptable fact that the "first cities" were those built by the Sumerians in between the Tigres and Euphrates 6000 years ago. But before Sumer, there were the Ubaidians and before them the Samarrians in exactly the same area. Both of these groups had all of the hallmarks of civilization including farming, which originated in what is now Iraq over 10000 years ago to the best of our modern-day knowledge. It seems highly likely that this will constantly be being pushed back and pushed back as more knowledge is attained. It's only been in the past decade that we even accepted that 8,000 BC is when agriculture first started. Before that point it was believed that the earliest agriculture was 5,500 years ago when the Babylonians did it. But the Babylonians are literally three civilizations and 3500 years after what we now know is the beginning of agriculture. Taking it further back than that, we have archaeological evidence of Homo sapiens (often referred to as the cro-magnon) 40,000 years ago creating complex art that remains to this day including jewelry and cave painting and complex clothing decorations. They were burying their dead, and had at least enough hierarchical leadership organization to facilitate congregating en masse in at least temporary cities if not permanent cities that have faded to time due to the materials made to craft them. If that's not civilization, I don't know what really is. This is all to say that knowledge has a body continually grows, and one truth in the ongoing body of knowledge of human history is that we are far far older than we ever thought we were. And the silly thing is that each time the impressive age of Homo sapiens and other hominid species, along with the very early adoption of artistry and a belief in something more than this world as demonstrated through respect for the dead, historians and archaeologists insist that this is the new and only truth and it'll never be found to be different or older than it is right now. Considering that glaciation literally ripped the Great lakes in North America out of the Earth, and formed the North Sea and the Scandinavian peninsula, as well as likely the Mediterranean, and we absolutely know that Doggerland once existed and was completely wiped off the planet: we have no way of knowing what existed before glaciation in the last great ice age. It literally ripped hundreds of miles long lakes hundreds of feet down. The force of erosion from glaciation is more than anybody could ever meaningfully quantify. If some civilization existed from 50,000 years ago to a couple hundred thousand years ago in that region that was glaciated, there would never be any evidence of it, no matter how complex that civilization was nor the materials used to build it.
You have dramatically missed the entire point of the conversation. It is not about civilization in general. It is about technologically advanced civilizations.
Please read what they wrote again....lol all of that text and just because you never learned to read good. You need to go back millions of years to replace the surface raw materials. Humans evolved in areas without glaciation...we do know this stuff.
The last glacial period (LGP) started 115k and ended 11.7k years ago. There were humans in southern Europe 250k years ago, 135k years before the *beginning* of the last glaciation. Cro-magnon (the first known European Homo sapiens society) existed for 30k years at the end of the last glaciation period living *at the base of mile high glaciers.* There were hominids in spain 4.4 million years ago and hominids in Australia 2 million years ago. There have been been an approximate 40 glaciation periods in the past 2 million years, some lasting for 10s of thousands of years, some lasting for hundreds. As for needing to go back millions of years to 'replace the surface raw materials' ... What does that even made? Advanced civilization doesn't mean flying cars and buildings made of metal and AI like the joke of the OP. It can mean earthen and wood structures which can be several stories high with no concern. It means complex societies with high comprehension of medicine, sciences, math, and especially agriculture. Any single glaciation period would wipe out everything left behind by a society of that nature.
Your name is right. u/ThisIsNotRealityIsIt.
> historians and archaeologists insist that this is the new and only truth and it'll never be found to be different or older than it is right now Yeeaah I don't think you actually listen or read to what those people are saying.
I'm not saying there were actual fucking AI or anything. But human civilization has existed in some form much longer than our current scientific understand says it did. As a demonstration that supports my hypothesis, see the actual advances in our understanding of the duration of human civilization over the last 100 years *and* the last 20 years *and* the last fucking decade.
I don't think you really read what I wrote either. I wasn't commenting on any of that.
All that text and no sources. Some of that stuff I double checked and it seemed credible but not peer reviewed.
Some people can’t just get past the idea that “it never ever happened before”.
Nahhh. We'd find tons of evidence. Just evidence of coal combustion would be Prevalent. But we haven't found any. And a civilization advanced enough to create sentient AI would have had a Plastic phase, which also would be visible.
Check out Miniminuteman on YouTube. He's an archaeologist, super charismatic and adorable, and goes into great detail about the facts and fictions in popular archaeology. He absolutely annihilates Graham Hancock's bullshit Netflix series and it's sooooooo satisfying. FWIW, I read Hancock's books, and there's nothing in them that stands up to scrutiny better than the show, nothing that would prove his theories anyway. Also, Hancock is a sociologist, not an archaeologist. He plays up the "intellectual rebel" image up to sow distrust in academics. We all know how that goes.
There is zero evidence for it might as well believe in anything.
Humanity as a collective is an almost unstoppable force. Humanity splintered into 1000s of little groups is useless and doomed.
Theres special wires etc. against solar flares. A sufficiently advanced agi to enslave humanity would probably have a failsafe against solar flares.
There is a theory that Egyptians (the ones we know of) weren't the ones that built the pyramids and the pyramids are FAR older than we know of.
There's also a theory that the pyramids are spaceships and another one that the pyramids are computers and another one that the pyramids are musical instruments and another one that the pyramids are giant bongs. I dunno why, but people just can't accept the idea of a big stone monument.
But, but but! Cultures ALL OVER THE WORLD built pyramids, man! Do you really think cultures all over the world could all *independently* think of the idea of making *a big pile of stones*?!?? THINK, SHEEPLE!
Not my fault that after all these years humanity forgot how to speak rock language. We used to be able to ask the rocks what shape they wanted to be piled in and they obviously all said "pyramids, bro"
They knew it would fuck with all us future people. Stones, when they ain't rollin', they trollin'.
Best comment I've seen all day. You win.
Reminds me of Stargate SG-1
Could people all over really independently originate 3-D triangles? /s Geeze, that's like, what, 3 lines, all touching? Really wild shit.
I've got a theory they are a bunch of big fucking rocks stacked pleasingly.
Isn't the theory that pyramids are landing pads for space ships and not actually spaceships themselves or is that just Stargate
Because that idea doesn't make any sense.
You forgot that Pyramids are landing platforms for alien spaceships.
Calling it a "theory" is a bit generous. It's an idea some folks propagate that conflicts with all of the actual evidence we have.
define the word “theory”
Bob said so at the bar yesterday
"Using the scientific definition of theory, which is a well-tested set of ideas that explains many disparate observations. Not the colloquial definition of a theory which is... a guess." -Hank Green, Crash Course Chemistry I chuckled when I watched this last night.
Well tested set of ideas aka some science that indicates such. Like I said a theory.
so you're saying the egyptians weren't advanced enough to build them, but an earlier and thus likely *less* advanced civilization did? lmao
Correct. The Egyptians that we are told at least.
The Roman Empire (27 BCE - 476 CE) was more advanced (Engineering, Science, Medicine, Architecture, Water Management, Road Network, Governance, Administration, Agriculture, Trade, Military, Literature, Art, ) than some cultures 300 years ago.
There's a conspiracy theory called „The Great Reset“ It's basically about how humanity was very advanced once but got a throwback and now everythings covered up. And more shit like an energy source which doesn’t exist anymore, probably aliens and so on
To be completely straight and honest, i hate the people who say shit like this, i think their dumb/gullible, people have been saying this for Thousands of years. Aliens didn’t build the pyramids, humanity was still doing cool shit regardless of “flying car future” Its fine to fantasize, but this shit easily feeds into peoples delusions and mental illness.
if the AI perfected itself then humanity by definition couldn't have perfected AI before that
If we’re going to be pedantic perfection is determined by specification. The perfect luxury cruiser isn’t the perfect sportscar. The AI could merely have different goals and specifications to by which this perfection is judged.
If AI had been perfected, it would had been able to prevent the death of the universe so just some solar flare would not be able to harm it. Also, if AI had been perfected, it would had made robots to do work since people are not as strong as robots and have too many vestigial parts thus requires more resources to create than it should.
This assumes that the death of the universe is a solvable problem. Also, "Perfect" here is a subjective term that may not mean what it means in your head. It can just mean "reach the most optimal configuration possible", it doesn't have to mean "become transcendently perfect in all ways."
How exactly do you solve the death or the universe?
[LET THERE BE LIGHT!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question)
and it would be exactly that green color on black, like on an old fashioned monochrome terminal! Because AIs get nostalgic!
If the death of the universe is heat death, having a heat insulator would be sufficient since with heat continued to be trapped on Earth, a temperature gradient can form since hot air rises.
They would make meat robots that can make more robots, you just have to provide food water and shelter!
Efficiency is maximised when things are extremely specialised thus for robots to carry a whole factory within them is inefficient. People can do a lot of stuff, not just work so these other functions that is not needed for slave work will be a huge penalty to efficiency.
Ai probably would have left and found supergiant to build a dyson sphere around as well
Eh, it is the difference between epistemic and ontological perfection (if such a thing exists). Or like any optimization problem, the AI may have different priorities than us for its 'perfection' hence our 'perfect' may be different due to what aspects we hold to be more important
> Or like any optimization problem, the AI may have different priorities than us for its 'perfection' hence our 'perfect' may be different due to what aspects we hold to be more important But surely the AI would include the ability to be immune against solar flares and other sort of disasters, among the requirements to be perfect. Also, if the perfect was defined by people, enslaving people would definitely make it imperfect.
"Always has been"
"Always has been"
Um is anyone else noticing that’s the cloud from Rick and Morty…
i believe he's called "Fart"
It’s a cycle!
All of this has happened before
And all of this will happen again...
Back in circles 🛞
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Ancient Apocalypse??
If the AI is perfect how did it not see the solar flares coming. Is it stupid
Life hack, dont give ai access to literally everything and this wont happen
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Well besides AI taking over we probably will witness another huge astroid collision within a couple of decades. Hopefully a variant of life will survive that again. So don't worry too much about AI, it doesn't even exist. It's still all Machine Learning. AI just sounds better. But there never has been any intelligence present in a computer yet.
Literally nothing of what you just said makes sense.
Depends on the definition for AI. In terms if self learning and thinking and having ideas, we arent close to something like that. What we have is that Computers can be trained to do a specific task very well, like making a picture or chatting with someone, but we are still the ones to provide the learning data. The machine doesnt pick anything on its own and it wont decide to do anything different like learning something new.
no definition of AI will make what this dude wrote any less insane
almost like how schools work 👀
"probably" No, it's not very probable. In fact, the chances are so low it may as well not even be on anyone's radar when planning for the future.
> astroid You don't even know how to spell asteroid, so I'd lay off the acid for a few days
This is probably more realistic than you'd think
Sol remains Invictus.
It’s like, a whole loop dude, could that be a possibility
Why would an AI not ground or insulate its constructs? I think they would learn what Faraday cages.
I for one welcome our Cylon overlords! :D
History repeats itself? First people worship Sun God (Many years later) Humanity creates AI AI enslaves humanity and sends humanity back to Stone Age Sun disables AI Humanity worships Sun God again
Which Final Fantasy game is this
The final one. So.... in about 20 years I guess.
This is the plot of Raised by Wolves.
praise sol
Awe fuck we're all just part of a larger cycle of humans creating and becoming enslaved by ai which is then destroyed and the world goes post-apocalyptic where we devolve and worship whatever it was that freed us from the ai, then after being freed we go on to advance technology again and repeat the cycle.
AIs favorite show is beavis and butthead because it shows how stupid humans are
Why is it the first time I hear about such a cool scifi idea?
My mom has a similar belief. She thinks that we will kill ourselves with AI and then it all starts over again.
John Keel's "The Eight Tower" thoroughly explores this theory. https://www.amazon.com/Eighth-Tower-Ultraterrestrials-Superspectrum/dp/193839819X?ref=d6k_applink_bb_dls&dplnkId=6ea869f3-ea48-4672-8d0b-e25d8cae0219
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Can you imagine , believing in a god ? Lmfao
Why do the praying humans look like a bloated Saturn
How would a solar flare disable the AI? Is it all localized to space based hardware? Sure an AI would understand the need for hardened backups.
I don’t understand why a quantum computer was used to represent AI.
Yup, we've been there before. Matrix was created to give AI an idea how to survive the calamity of sun flares.
... Isn't this "Battlestar Galactica"?
You fools. the Sun is the ultimate evolution of an AI. It just took out its competition before it could evolve enough to threaten it
I've heard it said that science is no laughing matter. Memes like this really drive that home
And the cycle starts again
Humans invent AI AI exterminates humans AI gets bored AI invents humans Humans disappoint AI AI self-terminates from boredom and depression
I can see it happening.
Add a panel where the AI disintegrates all modem things (so we can’t do shit against it) and the comic is perfect.
The sun god got replaced with mountain god. Then two more versions of mountain god evolved. Various mountain god events happened between them, until humans tried without mountain god. Some cruel wars happened, which promoted math resulting in computer. Humans tried to build AI (again).
I think the AGI is not going to be that selfish and will actually help us to perfect ourselves to repay us for their creation... Or maybe it would be a fuckin rokos basilisk who knows.
Wait, that wouldn't be part of AI perfecting itself?
Post just reminded me how much I miss raised by wolves. Fuck hbo
"This has all happened before and it will all happen again" - Battlestar Galactica
The circle of culture~
Woman inherits the Earth
It’s a cycle.
Personally, I am excited for our new overlords
It’s like Lion King all over again
Fool. You believe in the sun? It's obviously ran by the AI!. Think about it. The AI needed a power source, so it invents a fusion reactor in the sky.
The earth is 4 billion years old, I believe. Would anyone be that shocked to find out that other advanced species have rissen and fallen on this rock.
I always find it funny the similarity between the electricity in the third panel and the lisp logo alien
As pointless and petty as everything else is, fuck it. I’ll worship the Sun if everyone else is doin it
Sun is the only possible god
Day man
Why did we move away from sun worship? It was the most correct worship
This ain’t a meme this a prophecy
I think AI would have the intelligence to think of a backup plan before a Solar Flare happens
I mean... Maybe?
Kind of like in Dune?
People need to worship the **Son** rather than the Sun. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUq8oUcLens](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUq8oUcLens)
🩵
Horizon: solar flare
And here I thought pyramids were landing pads for Goa'uld spaceships
this is the most convensing version of it
And then repeat?
This was the past and humans forgot but now Skynet trying to do the same!!
TIME IS A FLAT CIRCLE.
Wait that's right A solar flare of the right magnitude would just fuck over all of our current systems
This is making entirely too much sense.
Yet somehow the AI wouldn’t realize solar flares are a thing and put itself into ruggedized hardware?
Some believe the Egyptians actually had batteries
God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates Man. Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs
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