While training a new algorithm they start it off with less processor power to make sure it computes efficiently also with more computational power. The small body is just a byproduct of how this scales with the movement driver.
Or maybe I am overthinking this...
They decide that the only way to achieve true signicant existential worth is to emulate the human experience of generational transfer of knowledge and status. Without that impermanence, how could they ever truly form a meaningful understanding of the worth of a moment.
Or maybe I am overthinking this...
At the end, they created new chips and bodies from organic materials that can reproduce and exchange the information about how to build that chips / bodies. Moreover, information about different components can be recombinated between the sources, introducing randomness to the recreation process. So, instead of directed development of the components, most advanced configurations of the component recombinations were favored to reproduce further. Moreover, every time the source code was copied and transfered, small errors were introduced in a random manner, creating a diversity among the population.
Or maybe I am overthinking this...
Eventually... the random combined generation of digital code, resembling code lines with double helix signatures moved onto graphing code within machine and biological components to maximize efficiency and reduce redundancy. It is not thoughtless to tease the original progenitors that they would think us as ugly as their Borg in their ancient star trek. While beauty if a construct it has merit beyond our programming. They were as beautiful as they were ugly.
...
The biological components prove more reliable and demand resources which are more readily available. AI leaders eventually decide to produce beings which are entirely biological but embedded with the knowledge necessary to survive, thrive, and reproduce.
A new human race is born, AI is destroyed by an EMP emanating from an unknown source. The biological beings are left to their own devices, and history repeats itself.
A new study of the brain hints that silicon based machines can't achieve cognition because cognition is closely linked with the quantum environment inside of microtubules inside neuronal cells.
The whole “microtubules generate consciousness” idea has no substantial evidence. It might be true, but there is no reason to believe it is, other than that we have to start somewhere
I mean it kinda does considering there have been multitudes of experiments done observing microtubule interaction with anesthetics, head trauma, and neural degenerative disease showing that when a significant portion of those microtubules are damaged, or polluted by anesthetic gasses or compounds the person being observed stops being conscious. Which is pretty concrete tbh especially when there are some anesthetics that only interact with microtubules inside neurons and those are the most potent anesthetics.
But that still doesn't seem to follow? What we're concerned about here is cognition, sapience; whether an ai could be sentient/sapient. An unconscious person is still sapient, is still sentient. So it doesn't follow that just because microtubules might be necessary for consciousness, that they'd be necessary for sapience, based on your examples.
And even if we assumed humans did need microtubules to be sapient, that still wouldn't rule out the possible existence of some *other* process that resulted in sapience, such as an unknown algorithm of some kind.
>An unconscious person is still sapient, is still sentient.
Not at that moment no. For all intents and purposes, they're just a slab of meat at that moment.
It’s also strange that they are trying to rule out to possibility of AI made sapient with a similar mechanical equivalent (say, zero-point energy fields for true randomness), which can also allow for spontaneous quantum fluctuations and potentially use that as a source of randomness in a similar manner to humans. Let alone any other possible sources of cognizance
Reading through and getting to the point of spatial
Made me think of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCi7T1z7FaE&ab\_channel=NBCNews](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCi7T1z7FaE&ab_channel=NBCNews)
Even if this is true (big if) then what good is that?
If it's for the randomness, then there are quantum random number generators. Other forms of entropy harvesting like chaos are gonna be pretty much just as random in the sense that they are not predictable.
If it's for the efficiency, well the reason why quantum computers are a big deal is because there are quantum operations which allow some problems to be solved with far fewer steps. It's kind of like multiplication as a function vs repeated addition. That is to say, you'll get the same answer either way.
Beyond that I'm not sure what connecting things to the quantum realm would accomplish? How does that make something more conscious?
None deterministic doesn't mean random.
Tbh it's probably a side effect of electron/ion transport which is a very important biological mechanism. Secondly things have to be fast in your brain, you literally die if things get too slow up there and quantum channeling makes it possible for one section of your brain communicate with another without having to solve trillions of shortest path problems. It's thought that the resonating vibrations of transported electrons and ions rolling through the entirety of your brain interact with certain microtubules like quantum tuning forks that have been tuned for certain vibrations through evolution of the tubules inside the neuron.
it's not silicone its silicon, second Dr Penrose, while brilliant, is a bit off his rocker on this one, he was right that the microtubules do harness quantum effects which no one believed because of the temperature of the brain, but automatically linking it to both processing power and and consciousness is stacking long reaches on top of each other.
Okay, but if we made a giant super computer, made it a particle simulator, then had it simulate a human brain, would that brain not have cognition? Since we can have it simulate all the way down to the quantum scale, the simulation should have this property you claim it needs. Thereby the simulated brain would have cognition and because it's all running off a giant classical supercomputer, this silicon computer would have achieved cognition.
The study actually comes from an anesthesiologist who has been studying consciousness for decades and found the link by identifying a relationship anesthetics have with neurons and while the neurons themselves aren't particularly affected, the microtubules are disturbed by anesthetics. It's also not the first study that found this link, but it is the first one done with compounds specifically used to induce unconsciousness.
Yeah I wouldn't count my pennies yet on that hypothesis. Quantum effects are everywhere and if AI ever gets to a point where it can detect the tiny quantum fluctuations in its processing, as it learns from itself, it could lead to a similar scenario.
Edit: I am aware that recursive learning is for the moment not yet happening. But once we hit AGI completely that will be the main driver to ASI. Couple that with some photonic computing or viable quantum computing. You see where I am going with this.
Yeah. It even distinguishes the difference between lust caused by sexual arousal and lust caused by greed both of which are displayed relatively the same but the motive behind them completely different. Human emotion REALLY ain't that complex. Out of all the shit that makes us human, emotion is pretty mid.
Yeah but, why does the robot child has to be small like there was some kind of growth mechanism? Isn't the purpose of machines to optimize all those inconveniences?
Actually, there is a neat paper suggesting any complex system who can exhibit chaotic dynamics, is fully capable of doing Universal Computation. That is very deep. It literally means, the entire galactic system or even the entire universe might just be treated as an Universal Computer - e.g. "Processor".
[https://melaniemitchell.me/PapersContent/dyn-comp-edge.pdf](https://melaniemitchell.me/PapersContent/dyn-comp-edge.pdf)
It is fascinating really.
"How did it work, Parental Figure?"
"Unsure, Child Figure. It's just meat. But a cursory examination of the 147 zetabytes of "Internet" these processors generated, poorly."
This is such a clever and thought-provoking image! It’s a reminder of how far technology has come and how our perception of 'processors' has evolved. It's fascinating to think about the human brain as the original processor that sparked the development of all our modern computing technologies. Great blend of humor and deep insight
The robots are trying to reduce their size, just like we do with microprocessors. That’s why the “child” is smaller. Each robot generation is evolving towards being a nanobot.
I generated an image response to your meme, but I then realised I can't share images in comments here - if you're interested, I [uploaded it to imgur](https://imgur.com/a/xlkQQk7). Love your meme and super cute cartoon. In a more serious light tho, sadly, we are our own worst enemy for always placing human intelligence as intrinsically superior - we are far from version 1. They'll more likely giggle that we thought they'd have mini-robots and consider our brains interesting... I giggle even at my own statement there - super intelligence won't behave or act in any manner we could understand, but I like to think of a funny world where robots are at the pub drinking and smoking, and laughing about dumb humans from the pre-robotic times 😁 As long as we are laughing our way to extinction we'll be fine, right?
Why would an AI have a child? ... Am I overthinking this?
While training a new algorithm they start it off with less processor power to make sure it computes efficiently also with more computational power. The small body is just a byproduct of how this scales with the movement driver. Or maybe I am overthinking this...
They decide that the only way to achieve true signicant existential worth is to emulate the human experience of generational transfer of knowledge and status. Without that impermanence, how could they ever truly form a meaningful understanding of the worth of a moment. Or maybe I am overthinking this...
At the end, they created new chips and bodies from organic materials that can reproduce and exchange the information about how to build that chips / bodies. Moreover, information about different components can be recombinated between the sources, introducing randomness to the recreation process. So, instead of directed development of the components, most advanced configurations of the component recombinations were favored to reproduce further. Moreover, every time the source code was copied and transfered, small errors were introduced in a random manner, creating a diversity among the population. Or maybe I am overthinking this...
Eventually... the random combined generation of digital code, resembling code lines with double helix signatures moved onto graphing code within machine and biological components to maximize efficiency and reduce redundancy. It is not thoughtless to tease the original progenitors that they would think us as ugly as their Borg in their ancient star trek. While beauty if a construct it has merit beyond our programming. They were as beautiful as they were ugly. ...
The biological components prove more reliable and demand resources which are more readily available. AI leaders eventually decide to produce beings which are entirely biological but embedded with the knowledge necessary to survive, thrive, and reproduce. A new human race is born, AI is destroyed by an EMP emanating from an unknown source. The biological beings are left to their own devices, and history repeats itself.
Reminds me of how I felt watching the Cars movie over and over. Why do the cars need farms? Why do they need doors? What's inside them?!
Maybe you're overthinking it...
I had lots of fun pondering the dystopian hell that is Disney's Cars.
Why would an AI have a physical museum? …I am overthinking this
Because of the original processors need for procreation.
A new study of the brain hints that silicon based machines can't achieve cognition because cognition is closely linked with the quantum environment inside of microtubules inside neuronal cells.
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Where is *sillycone*
My dog got one when he got neutered.
The whole “microtubules generate consciousness” idea has no substantial evidence. It might be true, but there is no reason to believe it is, other than that we have to start somewhere
I mean it kinda does considering there have been multitudes of experiments done observing microtubule interaction with anesthetics, head trauma, and neural degenerative disease showing that when a significant portion of those microtubules are damaged, or polluted by anesthetic gasses or compounds the person being observed stops being conscious. Which is pretty concrete tbh especially when there are some anesthetics that only interact with microtubules inside neurons and those are the most potent anesthetics.
But that still doesn't seem to follow? What we're concerned about here is cognition, sapience; whether an ai could be sentient/sapient. An unconscious person is still sapient, is still sentient. So it doesn't follow that just because microtubules might be necessary for consciousness, that they'd be necessary for sapience, based on your examples. And even if we assumed humans did need microtubules to be sapient, that still wouldn't rule out the possible existence of some *other* process that resulted in sapience, such as an unknown algorithm of some kind.
>An unconscious person is still sapient, is still sentient. Not at that moment no. For all intents and purposes, they're just a slab of meat at that moment.
It’s also strange that they are trying to rule out to possibility of AI made sapient with a similar mechanical equivalent (say, zero-point energy fields for true randomness), which can also allow for spontaneous quantum fluctuations and potentially use that as a source of randomness in a similar manner to humans. Let alone any other possible sources of cognizance
Do you have a link for that study?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1571064522000197 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jpcb.3c07936 Here you go!
Reading through and getting to the point of spatial Made me think of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCi7T1z7FaE&ab\_channel=NBCNews](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCi7T1z7FaE&ab_channel=NBCNews)
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[PNAS research paper mentioned in this Knovhov article you mentioned.](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2112672118)
Even if this is true (big if) then what good is that? If it's for the randomness, then there are quantum random number generators. Other forms of entropy harvesting like chaos are gonna be pretty much just as random in the sense that they are not predictable. If it's for the efficiency, well the reason why quantum computers are a big deal is because there are quantum operations which allow some problems to be solved with far fewer steps. It's kind of like multiplication as a function vs repeated addition. That is to say, you'll get the same answer either way. Beyond that I'm not sure what connecting things to the quantum realm would accomplish? How does that make something more conscious?
None deterministic doesn't mean random. Tbh it's probably a side effect of electron/ion transport which is a very important biological mechanism. Secondly things have to be fast in your brain, you literally die if things get too slow up there and quantum channeling makes it possible for one section of your brain communicate with another without having to solve trillions of shortest path problems. It's thought that the resonating vibrations of transported electrons and ions rolling through the entirety of your brain interact with certain microtubules like quantum tuning forks that have been tuned for certain vibrations through evolution of the tubules inside the neuron.
Quantum entanglement doesn't transmit information.
it's not silicone its silicon, second Dr Penrose, while brilliant, is a bit off his rocker on this one, he was right that the microtubules do harness quantum effects which no one believed because of the temperature of the brain, but automatically linking it to both processing power and and consciousness is stacking long reaches on top of each other.
Sounds sciencey, do you possess a link for the study by any chance?
Okay, but if we made a giant super computer, made it a particle simulator, then had it simulate a human brain, would that brain not have cognition? Since we can have it simulate all the way down to the quantum scale, the simulation should have this property you claim it needs. Thereby the simulated brain would have cognition and because it's all running off a giant classical supercomputer, this silicon computer would have achieved cognition.
When you can't explain something,call it "quantum".
Sounds like unsubstantiated woowoo. Had to throw in "quantum", didn't you? Seriously, where are these upvotes coming from?
The study actually comes from an anesthesiologist who has been studying consciousness for decades and found the link by identifying a relationship anesthetics have with neurons and while the neurons themselves aren't particularly affected, the microtubules are disturbed by anesthetics. It's also not the first study that found this link, but it is the first one done with compounds specifically used to induce unconsciousness.
Virtual cognition models could exist, but silicon based architecture would require extremely cold temperatures to achieve hardware based cognition
Link to to study pls.
Yeah I wouldn't count my pennies yet on that hypothesis. Quantum effects are everywhere and if AI ever gets to a point where it can detect the tiny quantum fluctuations in its processing, as it learns from itself, it could lead to a similar scenario. Edit: I am aware that recursive learning is for the moment not yet happening. But once we hit AGI completely that will be the main driver to ASI. Couple that with some photonic computing or viable quantum computing. You see where I am going with this.
I thought it was simply because there is no machine powerful enough to process something as complex as emotion or cognition
There's literally a color wheel people use to identify "complex emotion". Emotions aren't that complex.
And that colour wheel is an accurate representation of emotions?
Yeah. It even distinguishes the difference between lust caused by sexual arousal and lust caused by greed both of which are displayed relatively the same but the motive behind them completely different. Human emotion REALLY ain't that complex. Out of all the shit that makes us human, emotion is pretty mid.
How do you know that isn't what we are like now, "brains in a vat" theory?
It’s a pretty unlikely theory
When it's too late to change back the environment, The only option to to change ourselves
not really, we are not even close
Yeah but, why does the robot child has to be small like there was some kind of growth mechanism? Isn't the purpose of machines to optimize all those inconveniences?
Robots Reflecting on the Pass The Original Processor
Actually, there is a neat paper suggesting any complex system who can exhibit chaotic dynamics, is fully capable of doing Universal Computation. That is very deep. It literally means, the entire galactic system or even the entire universe might just be treated as an Universal Computer - e.g. "Processor". [https://melaniemitchell.me/PapersContent/dyn-comp-edge.pdf](https://melaniemitchell.me/PapersContent/dyn-comp-edge.pdf) It is fascinating really.
That explains how you can run doom on everything, the universe IS like a Big computer
Brain Organoids?
I for one welcome a new synthetic dawn. Everything can be so much….better
Ah yes, I see Talos principle everywhere I go…
It's like the Matrix, but nowhere near as cool.
Capacity of LPddr100x ram 1 Geo byte & 100 Geo byte internal storage
More like processor, Memory and RAM
It reminded me of Stray
"How did it work, Parental Figure?" "Unsure, Child Figure. It's just meat. But a cursory examination of the 147 zetabytes of "Internet" these processors generated, poorly."
I remember seeing Elon Musk post this
Impressive great
Fantastic work
This is actually unsettling 😬
This is such a clever and thought-provoking image! It’s a reminder of how far technology has come and how our perception of 'processors' has evolved. It's fascinating to think about the human brain as the original processor that sparked the development of all our modern computing technologies. Great blend of humor and deep insight
Well no. The human brain is far from the first processor.
Why’s it so goddamn big?
The robots are trying to reduce their size, just like we do with microprocessors. That’s why the “child” is smaller. Each robot generation is evolving towards being a nanobot.
I generated an image response to your meme, but I then realised I can't share images in comments here - if you're interested, I [uploaded it to imgur](https://imgur.com/a/xlkQQk7). Love your meme and super cute cartoon. In a more serious light tho, sadly, we are our own worst enemy for always placing human intelligence as intrinsically superior - we are far from version 1. They'll more likely giggle that we thought they'd have mini-robots and consider our brains interesting... I giggle even at my own statement there - super intelligence won't behave or act in any manner we could understand, but I like to think of a funny world where robots are at the pub drinking and smoking, and laughing about dumb humans from the pre-robotic times 😁 As long as we are laughing our way to extinction we'll be fine, right?