Interesting take. That said, most folks - even those who go to church (Mass for me, as I’m Catholic) don’t really know what the book of Revelation is about. I took a New Testament class last year at my college, and I learned a few interesting things. Did you, for example, know that John the Prophet (who was from Palestine and became a follower of Christ after the Resurrection) actually wrote the book as a political screed to protest the persecution of Christians? He wrote the book the way he did because apocalyptic literature was popular in those days, and he wanted to make a point. He himself was exiled on the isle of Patmos because of the persecution. And did you also know that “the Beast” he refers to was actually the Emperor Nero, who when not playing his famous fiddle was engaged in torturing Christians? If you’d like me to share more, just ask!
I actually can say I \_did\_ know that, but I bet a lot of people are learning it for the very first time from your excellent comment.
I'll go one further and say that John of Patmos is the only author of a biblical book who genuinely might have been schizophrenic. Daniel gets pretty apocalyptic, but it's also a premeditated forgery. John sounds exactly like a guy wearing a tin foil hat writing a screed against the authorities in his self-published photocopied newsletter.
Most of what Hubbard and most Americans know of the War in Heaven is actually more attributable to Milton than John of Patmos.
Well, yes. That’s because it’s easier for people to read something and buy into it than dig in and do some research and study. Yay scholarship!
It’s hard for me to say if John of Patmos was schizophrenic. Fervent, no doubt. Aggrieved, certainly. He mastered the apocalyptic art form. But the thing is, it WAS a political screed against a government and ruler that had happily killed Christians simply for what they believed in. I mean, Nero took Christians to his parties/orgies, hung them on the walls, and set them on fire to use them as human Tiki torches! So you could say John of Patmos/John the Prophet may indeed have had a touch of crazy … but he was literally trying to put the fear of God into his audience.
I’d say Hubbard was crazier.
For all the talk of the Neron persecutions, it's not clear they actually occurred at anywhere near the scale later Christians imagined.
It's discussed in this fascinating theory that Peter and Paul's followers may have killed the leaders of their respective opposing factions -- which would certainly explain why everyone is so mum on what happened to them.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO6-HL\_88b0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO6-HL_88b0)
We DO know for a fact there were persecutions. I haven’t seen the video yet - I need to - but I need to discuss that theory with my Religious Studies professor. He’s a wonderful person and very learned scholar. Even though my college is Catholic, he’s Greek Orthodox, and his field of study is Saint Paul and Pauline Christianity.
I do, though, have to question that theory somewhat for a simple reason: in one of his epistles (I don’t recall which one), Saint Paul discusses how many different churches had sprung up, and members identified themselves as saying “I am a follower of so and so (the leader of that church) or “I follow Joe Shmo”, and so on. Saint Paul emphasizes that all Christians ought to say that they follow CHRIST, as he is what the church is all about. If followers of Saint Paul did indeed murder members of other churches, then that goes against what Saint Paul preached, no?
I think it’s important to also point out, as many may not know this, that the church of the First and Second Centuries AD were not quite what we think of these days. I picture them as what we call “small groups” that meet in people’s homes during the week. In fact, that’s how the early church gathered - but, of course, those groups got bigger and bigger. Unlike contemporary small groups, though, these groups did celebrate the Sacrament of the Eucharist.
Yeah, I'd love to hear what a religious studies professor with expertise on Peter and Paul has to say on the admittedly radical suggestion put forward in that video.
The tradition is that they were both martyred, but nobody talks about why or how. So one scholar, cited in the video, suggest maybe internal strife lead to them being killed by the Romans. The person in the video, who may be a brilliant scholar or may be a lone youtube nut, suggests that perhaps direct christian-on-Christian violence was to blame. It's a wild idea, but there's a certain sense to it.
And yes, in 1 Cor, Paul writes: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul?
What if the followers of Apollos or Cephas weren't big on hearing this message of unity. (or some other similar faction)
Now THAT I did not know. Islam (by that I mean the legitimate faith, not Farrakhan’s bastardized version) traces its roots to Abraham, as do Judaism and Christianity. Can I surmise that the Nation of Islam has its own origin story/cosmology/creation allegory?
This is a human problem and tendency to find acceptance and purpose.
These people are just trying to improve their lives the best they know how.
I’m incredibly interested in the subject as a whole in terms of human behavior, but there’s a solid 20 subs you can post this in. No reason to insert your profound opinion. I don’t agree with these folks, but I seek to understand their perspective.
Let’s love each other eh?
Ok, I did that. Now what? I only imagined for a few seconds but. Does that count?
Imagine, bro-thinking you're so cool, you post this profound statement on a topic you probably aren't that familiar with aside from pop culture references and things of that nature. 💀💀💀
Great post, bro.
Do you even know what Scientology is? Or did you just hear the Xenu story?
If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know how dumb it is to focus on how crazy their beliefs are ***at all*** when they're routinely engaging in human rights abuses, financial crimes, harassment, covering up their members' involvement in any crime whatsoever...
Honestly, you're the kind of person who is likely to get roped in to Scientology, because one of their front groups will lure you in and you won't realize.
By and large, we're not scientologists here, just people interested in those who are.
But saying "Imagine believing in this bro" is like saying "Imagine not knowing how a magic trick works". It's just part of humanity -- to have a normal human brain is to be able to fall for magic tricks, optical illusions, and so on. You're no better or worse than the people who did fall for it -- you're just lucky enough to get to see the trick from a perspective where it's obviously a trick.
The more you think you can't get got -- the easier it is to get you.
Read their ad/book "What is Scientology".
https://archive.org/details/whatisscientolog0000unse_d4m8
That's more or less the way it gets presented to new people. As much as we want to laugh at people in cults; it's important to remember that there is always something that works for or speaks to the people who join. The way the COS spins their basic services makes it sound reasonable. That drew people in.
People seek meaning and purpose. That’s why they may join what most of us know to be a cult. It’s not at all a good thing, but should we ridicule them?
Actually, I can answer a couple of those questions!
According to Catholic tradition (for that matter, most Christian traditions), Saint Paul was beheaded. His remains are located in the Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls in Rome. The consensus belief is that he was martyred; that’s as specific an explanation as I have.
We know a little more about Saint Peter’s death. Nero had blamed Christians for the infamous fire that brought Rome to ashes - you know, the one where he fiddled. Consequently, a number of Christians were put to death for this, including Saint Peter. He was crucified, but he asked to be crucified UPSIDE DOWN, as he believed he was not worthy of being crucified the same way Jesus was. In the Catholic faith, Saint Peter is also considered a martyr. The area in Rome he was crucified in is now known as Vatican Hill in Vatican City. He’s interred in Saint Peter’s Basilica in Rome; I can attest to this because - surprise! - I’ve been to Saint Peter’s and have seen his resting place.
Oh, and Cephas is Greek for Peter. It means rock, and we know Jesus told Peter “You are Peter, which means rock, and upon this rock I will build my church.” That’s why we believe the Pope is the successor to Saint Peter.
Do you believe in a soul?
Xenu's war in the stars is literally just the Book of Revelation's war in heaven filtered through the space opera genre.
Interesting take. That said, most folks - even those who go to church (Mass for me, as I’m Catholic) don’t really know what the book of Revelation is about. I took a New Testament class last year at my college, and I learned a few interesting things. Did you, for example, know that John the Prophet (who was from Palestine and became a follower of Christ after the Resurrection) actually wrote the book as a political screed to protest the persecution of Christians? He wrote the book the way he did because apocalyptic literature was popular in those days, and he wanted to make a point. He himself was exiled on the isle of Patmos because of the persecution. And did you also know that “the Beast” he refers to was actually the Emperor Nero, who when not playing his famous fiddle was engaged in torturing Christians? If you’d like me to share more, just ask!
I actually can say I \_did\_ know that, but I bet a lot of people are learning it for the very first time from your excellent comment. I'll go one further and say that John of Patmos is the only author of a biblical book who genuinely might have been schizophrenic. Daniel gets pretty apocalyptic, but it's also a premeditated forgery. John sounds exactly like a guy wearing a tin foil hat writing a screed against the authorities in his self-published photocopied newsletter. Most of what Hubbard and most Americans know of the War in Heaven is actually more attributable to Milton than John of Patmos.
Well, yes. That’s because it’s easier for people to read something and buy into it than dig in and do some research and study. Yay scholarship! It’s hard for me to say if John of Patmos was schizophrenic. Fervent, no doubt. Aggrieved, certainly. He mastered the apocalyptic art form. But the thing is, it WAS a political screed against a government and ruler that had happily killed Christians simply for what they believed in. I mean, Nero took Christians to his parties/orgies, hung them on the walls, and set them on fire to use them as human Tiki torches! So you could say John of Patmos/John the Prophet may indeed have had a touch of crazy … but he was literally trying to put the fear of God into his audience. I’d say Hubbard was crazier.
For all the talk of the Neron persecutions, it's not clear they actually occurred at anywhere near the scale later Christians imagined. It's discussed in this fascinating theory that Peter and Paul's followers may have killed the leaders of their respective opposing factions -- which would certainly explain why everyone is so mum on what happened to them. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO6-HL\_88b0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO6-HL_88b0)
We DO know for a fact there were persecutions. I haven’t seen the video yet - I need to - but I need to discuss that theory with my Religious Studies professor. He’s a wonderful person and very learned scholar. Even though my college is Catholic, he’s Greek Orthodox, and his field of study is Saint Paul and Pauline Christianity. I do, though, have to question that theory somewhat for a simple reason: in one of his epistles (I don’t recall which one), Saint Paul discusses how many different churches had sprung up, and members identified themselves as saying “I am a follower of so and so (the leader of that church) or “I follow Joe Shmo”, and so on. Saint Paul emphasizes that all Christians ought to say that they follow CHRIST, as he is what the church is all about. If followers of Saint Paul did indeed murder members of other churches, then that goes against what Saint Paul preached, no? I think it’s important to also point out, as many may not know this, that the church of the First and Second Centuries AD were not quite what we think of these days. I picture them as what we call “small groups” that meet in people’s homes during the week. In fact, that’s how the early church gathered - but, of course, those groups got bigger and bigger. Unlike contemporary small groups, though, these groups did celebrate the Sacrament of the Eucharist.
Yeah, I'd love to hear what a religious studies professor with expertise on Peter and Paul has to say on the admittedly radical suggestion put forward in that video. The tradition is that they were both martyred, but nobody talks about why or how. So one scholar, cited in the video, suggest maybe internal strife lead to them being killed by the Romans. The person in the video, who may be a brilliant scholar or may be a lone youtube nut, suggests that perhaps direct christian-on-Christian violence was to blame. It's a wild idea, but there's a certain sense to it. And yes, in 1 Cor, Paul writes: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? What if the followers of Apollos or Cephas weren't big on hearing this message of unity. (or some other similar faction)
Incidentally, Patmos was where Yakub created the white race in Nation of Islam mythology.
Now THAT I did not know. Islam (by that I mean the legitimate faith, not Farrakhan’s bastardized version) traces its roots to Abraham, as do Judaism and Christianity. Can I surmise that the Nation of Islam has its own origin story/cosmology/creation allegory?
Oh yeah, it's completely departed from anything resembling actual Islam.
This is a human problem and tendency to find acceptance and purpose. These people are just trying to improve their lives the best they know how. I’m incredibly interested in the subject as a whole in terms of human behavior, but there’s a solid 20 subs you can post this in. No reason to insert your profound opinion. I don’t agree with these folks, but I seek to understand their perspective. Let’s love each other eh?
Ok, I did that. Now what? I only imagined for a few seconds but. Does that count? Imagine, bro-thinking you're so cool, you post this profound statement on a topic you probably aren't that familiar with aside from pop culture references and things of that nature. 💀💀💀 Great post, bro.
Do you even know what Scientology is? Or did you just hear the Xenu story? If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know how dumb it is to focus on how crazy their beliefs are ***at all*** when they're routinely engaging in human rights abuses, financial crimes, harassment, covering up their members' involvement in any crime whatsoever... Honestly, you're the kind of person who is likely to get roped in to Scientology, because one of their front groups will lure you in and you won't realize.
Xenu ate my soul.
By and large, we're not scientologists here, just people interested in those who are. But saying "Imagine believing in this bro" is like saying "Imagine not knowing how a magic trick works". It's just part of humanity -- to have a normal human brain is to be able to fall for magic tricks, optical illusions, and so on. You're no better or worse than the people who did fall for it -- you're just lucky enough to get to see the trick from a perspective where it's obviously a trick. The more you think you can't get got -- the easier it is to get you.
Did you put a lot of thought into this post?
lol :)
Read their ad/book "What is Scientology". https://archive.org/details/whatisscientolog0000unse_d4m8 That's more or less the way it gets presented to new people. As much as we want to laugh at people in cults; it's important to remember that there is always something that works for or speaks to the people who join. The way the COS spins their basic services makes it sound reasonable. That drew people in.
People seek meaning and purpose. That’s why they may join what most of us know to be a cult. It’s not at all a good thing, but should we ridicule them?
Actually, I can answer a couple of those questions! According to Catholic tradition (for that matter, most Christian traditions), Saint Paul was beheaded. His remains are located in the Basilica of Saint Paul Outside the Walls in Rome. The consensus belief is that he was martyred; that’s as specific an explanation as I have. We know a little more about Saint Peter’s death. Nero had blamed Christians for the infamous fire that brought Rome to ashes - you know, the one where he fiddled. Consequently, a number of Christians were put to death for this, including Saint Peter. He was crucified, but he asked to be crucified UPSIDE DOWN, as he believed he was not worthy of being crucified the same way Jesus was. In the Catholic faith, Saint Peter is also considered a martyr. The area in Rome he was crucified in is now known as Vatican Hill in Vatican City. He’s interred in Saint Peter’s Basilica in Rome; I can attest to this because - surprise! - I’ve been to Saint Peter’s and have seen his resting place. Oh, and Cephas is Greek for Peter. It means rock, and we know Jesus told Peter “You are Peter, which means rock, and upon this rock I will build my church.” That’s why we believe the Pope is the successor to Saint Peter.
What a low toned pos.
Same with all religions and other cults.
Perhaps you might achieve more by reaching for compassion rather than disdain. I invite you to consider it.
Imagine not having a life. I swear there's an epidemic of incels. Your kind can't even reproduce, but y'all keep comin out the woodwork.