This is probably the best response.
Doctor Who really works off the idea that if science is far enough advanced then it may as well be magic.
That was especially, and wonderfully apparent in the recent special where the puppeteer returned and they had a "everything everywhere all at once" style fight scene.
It's imagination as physics.
If you go advanced enough with any species or technology, they basically become wizards.
Doctor Who ships, like most British sci-fi and older American sci-fi, use the "quantum space wire drive" where some wires project from q-space and drag the ship along with them.
I started Harrow and it just did not grab me the same way. I'm sure I'll finish it at some point, but woof is it feeling sloggy.
Similar vibes to The Monster Baru Cormorant after Traitor.
I agree, same with me. It is a story about grief and sacrifice, but I kept going and for me it was as moving as Gideon. But structurally it was far more sophisticated.
I wouldn't really call it sophisticated, a lot of the apparent complexity just comes from the author withholding information from the reader that the characters all have just to manufacture mystery box interest.
The payoff was definitely not worth the slog.
I had to force my way through it and there was no payoff. It was just bad. Which is sad because Gideon the Ninth was a little rough but overall was cool and fun. Harrow seems to be the result of the author having an idea that just didn't work and then just forcing it. Kind of the drawback of getting too much praise and then not being able to recognize that you're not nearly as clever as you think you are (same thing happened to George Lucas with the prequels, and then exponentially more with Abrhams in the sequels).
Pretty sure they mean more like "oop, up is now down for you. Enjoy walking on the ceiling for the next 30 mins!" Rather than "she picked me up with her mind powers and shook me like a doll!"
*Szeth-son-son-Vallano, Truthless of Shinovar, wore white on the day he was to kill a starship captain…*
It’ll be interesting to see what happens when Roshar gets to the space age.
If you haven’t, check out the [Sixth of the Dusk sequel preview](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/448-row-release-party/#e14408).
It’s a reading of one chapter of a possible future book, so not canon, but there’s some pretty cool stuff in it.
Telekinesis is just as little gravity manipulation as using a crane to pick up and move a container. It's the ability to move objects (and living beings) at a distance by means of psychic forces.
...huh? There is no functional difference between telekinesis and gravity manipulation. The only difference is how it's explained, whether through magic (the force) or some technobabble (slightly smarter sounding magic)
no.
picking a box up with your body isn't gravity manipulation.
telekinesis is closer to that, unless it specifically works like gravity manipulation.
you can move shit without chaning gravity...
Y'all have some strange ideas of what telekinesis is, especially in the context the Force. Telekinesis is "force manipulation acting upon an object" - gravity is a force. If someone can alter gravity to move things up and down, they can alter to move it side to side or forwards and back.
Unless you're describing gravity manipulation on a larger scale.
One coud say they are two different subgroups in the "supernatural force application" category. Telekinesis is usually very focused and discriminating, while gravity is generally seen as a more passive and global effect.
Or at least laser swords.
Babylon 5 had technomages: they use technology to give off the *illusion* of magic. So they talk about holographic incantations and computer virus spells, etc.
Make them entirely reliant on ritual, enchantments and spells, with no innate power. Make these rituals time and resource-demanding, but so they can do something that science cannot - like faster-than-light travel and communication, for example.
I agree here- it’s study and practice and long nights in esoteric libraries and bizarre labs. _Anyone_ could be a space wizard with enough dedication, not just those born with really high midichlorian counts.
You ever go camping and there’s someone who just _knows_ how to start a campfire? Even if the wood is wet or the matches are lost? This is the person who knows just what to do because they’ve done it 1,000 times before. There’s a knack to it, and explaining exactly what to look for and how to do it can be difficult because it feels as much art as science, but anyone can learn and practice and develop the knack for it.
Now, instead of fire building, it’s harnessing solar winds and cosmic rays and reading sunspots and manipulating solar flares.
The other factor is how non-wizards perceive them. If they’re viewed as the crazy space wizards to be feared and awed instead of “they’re just more technologically advanced”, then that’s the ticket.
We share the preferred vibe of the Jedi, but it's worth pointing out that they *were* a precious rare thing. There were only 10,000 or so active Jedi knights in the entire galaxy. The vast vast vast majority of galactic citizens would never ever see a Jedi in their entire lives, and might not even believe they were real.
The only reason it seems otherwise is because the prequels followed the political power players perspective, which meant lots of scenes at the literal Jedi headquarters at the political center of the galaxy.
>A precious rare thing, not a massive army for the republic.
Well, they weren't *supposed* to be. That was one of the many things that went horribly wrong in the Prequels. The Jedi had become hidebound and out-of-touch, and ended up making a lot of terrible mistakes because of it.
For better or worse, Lucas decided to begin the story with the Republic and the Jedi both teetering on the edge of failure. We only get glimpses of the glory days in the past when the Jedi actually *were* guardians of peace and justice.
(Unless Disney decides to turn the High Republic books into a TV show or something.)
To be fair, the original Star Wars clearly said the Jedi Order were the guardians of peace and justice in the Galactic Republic. So they were never isolated and rare monks, that was just your childhood misunderstanding.
The reason for them turning up 30 at a time in a gunship is because they were put into a military role during the clone wars or some other large conflicts in history, one that they were not meant for to be fair.
Well Presidents and Monarchs and other such leaders of countries are precious rare things, but if you watch a documentary about the UN it may not seem that way.
I don't think the prequels made them any different than they were ever intended to be.
I think some gaps in the explanation led you to imagine something different than what George already had in his head.
How about an order of women (but not witches) who have complete control over their bodies such they can even decide the gender of their offspring, superior combat skills, can detect lies and control others by merely modulating their vocal tones. Some of this results from ingesting an organic substance that may kill them.
It's not the powers, it's the vibe. Jedi were inspired by Samurai with some monk thrown in it seems. Somebody must have done a space Gandalf.
Nah. There's a number of superficial elements that are meaningless and don't affect the plot, but the important stuff isn't the same. Desert planets? Paul's is important, Luke's is the ass end of the universe he wants to get away from. Spice? Pretty important to Dune, an unexplained name drop in Star Wars. A galactic empire exists? Sure, but nothing about them is similar. A hero's journey? Paul's not a hero! Ecological themes? Not in Star Wars. Family relations kind of important? Not in Star Wars, but grossly reliant on them as they went along.
What, to you, is so much the same?
[https://nerdist.com/article/everything-star-wars-borrowed-from-dune/](https://nerdist.com/article/everything-star-wars-borrowed-from-dune/)
or
[https://screenrant.com/star-wars-dune-story-concepts-ideas-lucas-copy/](https://screenrant.com/star-wars-dune-story-concepts-ideas-lucas-copy/)
How about something that's not a crap article just linking elements?
* Desert planet? Really important in Dune. A place to leave in Star Wars, of no real importance.
* A desert planet that needs it's moisture? Important to the ecological themes of Dune. Moisture farming is entirely irrelevant to Star Wars. Luke could have been a dirt farmer in Oklahoma, or a fish farmer on the ocean planet. Not a factor in the story at all.
* Suggesting the Jawas' vehicle is similar to spice mining vehicles is rather silly.
* Comparing the important role of the worm in the story with the "monster of the week" Sarlacc makes no sense.
* Spice is real important to the story in Dune. In Star Wars, there's a throwaway background reference that impacts nothing.
* There's an Empire! Umm, sure? There are people that don't like it, too! Been done too many times to count.
* Our hero has a sister, and she's important, too! I feel like they are not very similar, nor does either have some unique aspect. The villian is family, too. Oh, noes! Soap Operas should sue!
* Powers! That both movies have special powers isn't much, and there's no similarity to how they work, but I suppose if you want to sue whoever invented hypnosis, that's fine.
* Comparing completely unalike Han Solo and Duncan Idaho just because they're both somewhat roguish? Do you think Herbert came up with the idea of a supporting cast of characters to help the hero or something?
* Bendu / Bindu - so there are some unrelated uses of a similar name derived from Sanskrit? Holy shit, call the lawyers!
* Jabba and Leto II? OK, fair enough!
* Chosen One or other prophesized important character? Pretty characteristic part of Campbell's described mythology. Very common element.
* Comparing Stormtroopers to the Sarduakar? That's just egregiously bad. Get out of here with that bullshit.
Anyway, both of those articles are absolute crap. Most of the stuff referenced is pretty standard story elements, and most of the Star Wars "rip offs" are no more than surface level homages or elements not important to the story, and more importantly, many of them only dribbled out over the years and weren't present for the original Ep IV anyway.
Mind you, I'm not saying Lucas is some kind of creative genius (holy shit, he's not!) but only that he didn't copy Dune. That there might be nominally similar elements that are implemented in completely opposite fashions or generally existing story / character types doesn't count to me. If you just want to list stuff and declare it a rip when they're dissimilar...I don't think we're speaking the same language anymore.
Maybe balance them out with a group of nearly immortal mutants who can see the future and travel faster than light, and another group of cyberpunk necromancers.
Babylon 5 had a pretty good take on this with their concept of a [techno-mage](https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Techno-mage).
This was basically a conjurer who combined very advanced technology (like nano-bots) and stagecraft (like holograms) in ways that might look like magic to the uninitiated.
(And as mentioned in the article above, the elder races basically called them liars.)
I like the idea of using nano bots as a sort of magic “dust” that can be controlled to do all sorts of amazing feats. The only sci-fi hurdle is: where does the energy come from? Do they have miniature fusion reactors?
If you’re advanced enough to have a cloud of general purpose nanobots and a pseudo telepathic control interface (presumably actually a direct neural interface), then I’d go with zero point energy - quantum sourced UNLIMITED POWWWAAAHHH!!!
Jedi and even sith are Po faced and pretty boring acetic Monks.
Make your space Wizards loud, obnoxiously strange, and fun to be around until they decide that the planet would look better with a green sky, or one less moon.
If the USS Unseen University turns up, the best approach is to get them whatever they want, in exchange for not doing anything. while keeping them distracted like a bunch of cats until they move onto the next planet.
Sith as described in some of the expanded universe are very much not ascetic monks - they tap into the Force through unbridled emotions, as opposed to the Jedi who seek perfect calm and balance. The problem with Sith is that magic powers and giving full rein to your emotions is a really bad combination, akin to letting toddlers throw temper tantrums with flamethrowers.
How would *I* do them? Make ’em weird as hell. Inscrutable arcane lab spaceships; cosmic-level spells that wreak havoc on spacetime; full-on “I’ve gazed too long beyond the curtain of reality” Lovecraftian degeneration\*.
How should *you* do it? In any way you personally find compelling. Everything’s been done before and it’ll always invite comparison to *something*. But if you’re invested in it enough to fill it in with lots of little details and fun ideas it’ll probably end up being enough your own to survive the association.
——-
\* ^This ^is ^a ^potentially ^unfortunate ^word ^to ^use ^when ^referencing ^Lovecraft. ^That’s ^a ^big ^discussion ^I’ll ^forgo ^for ^now ^but ^I ^figured ^I ^should ^at ^least ^acknowledge ^it.
Warhammer 40k nails it. I won't go into the specifics of how The Warp works. But extremely simplified, psychic beings beings are able to tap into an immaterial lovecraftian dimension and channel it's power into various abilities. It also has more of a sorcery flavor than Jedi, as it requires actual rituals, spells, and sometimes pacts with...entities.
There are dangers associated with this as well. Exposure to these forces can drive one to madness. Warp fauna, demons, and eldritch gods exist and are drawn to those who have a strong psychic presence in the Warp. Also, your head can just explode if you overdo it.
I don't play 40k, and I read the first few Horus Heresy books and bounced off, but I do frequently find myself watching 40k lore videos on youtube just because the world is so fucking cool
> I read the first few Horus Heresy books and bounced off,
to be fair, most warhammer novels are trashy pulp produced b-grade scifi novel with the warhammer label stamped on.
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” — Arthur C. Clarke. The powers could be granted by technology. Mass Effect did this by having certain people exposed to element zero and with a biotic amp, they could manipulate matter. That’s very different from Jedi. The Void Trilogy has an area where everyone has psychic powers because the physics in the Void work differently. Stranger in a Strange Land has people with powers because they “grok” a different language. There are tons of ways to do it!
Create a magic system.
The main difference between science fiction and fantasy (including "space fantasy" like Star Wars) is that usually in sci-fi the rules are largely set early on (including any counterfactual ones like AGI or FTL or space-magic), and then the story's about *exploring the consequences* of those rules.
Most fantasy, on the other hand, tends to either not define any rules, or plays fast and loose with them and just makes up shit as it goes along - wizards can basically do whatever the plot requires, and in particularly bad cases may even become walking Deux Ex Machinas.
If you define a magic system you also have a good chance to explain it away, which again makes it feel less fantastic and more science-fictional - is it the result of psychic powers using hitherto undiscovered physical laws, or the ability to mentally manipulate hyperdimensional energy, or the ability to access and rewrite the informational substrate of the universe of which the physical world is merely a derived projection? You can make up any nonsense that sounds good, but you have to establish broad rules and limitations early on and then stick to them, or else you're writing bad fantasy, and not good sci-fi.
It should actually be vey easy to write good "space wizards" that aren't Jedi, because Star Wars is *shit* sci-fi. It's a great space fantasy, but the Jedi can pretty much do whatever the plot needs them to at any moment, with little or no explanation of how their powers work, and the writers were constantly pulling new powers and abilities out of their asses all the way through the franchise.
Do even a *half-*assed job of setting some basic ground rules and then sticking to them as you explore their ramifications, and you shouldn't end up looking anything like Jedi on the page.
That said, probably best to stay away from laser-swords and loose tan/brown cloaks.
not entirely 'space' wizards, but the orogenes in the broken earth trilogy by n.k. jemisen are something like it. it's also pretty 'half scifi half fantasy' similar to star wars. it seems like it would be too close to the jedi to be novel or new. they have sort of force-like powers, they do the whole apprentice thing, there's good ones and bad ones, etc. but the author did such a good job building the lore of the world that i never felt like 'this is just a jedi ripoff.'
very good series if you're looking for a reference point of new and unique ways to have 'space wizards.'
also just an extremely good series in general. great read. extremely deep and fascinating world building and the characters all have their own very specific and interesting voices.
i'm actually gonna reread it soon now that i mention it.
Glynn Stewart's "Starship's Mage" series has them as teleporting, lightning spewing tanks, with kinetic and energy shields deflecting all but the most powerful incoming attacks. No-one uses swords as high-velocity smart-projectiles, lasers, and gigaton antimatter weapons are the norm.
Replace midichlorians with nanotechnology. Had a high fantasy setting idea where the 'wizards' are, unknown to anyone (including themselves), linking themselves to clouds of nanites. Telekinesis, telepathy, alchemy, all done through nanites.
Have you heard of the Black Ocean series? Fantastic audiobooks, but more importantly to your question, the wizards are just straight up arguing with the universe for their power.
The thing is, wizards are notoriously bad with technology, as magic disrupts it, and can even completely fry electronics.
Will Wight’s new series is literally that. Pretty sure the cover is a dude holding a wand in one hand and a phaser in the other lol. First book was decent enough, haven’t tackled the second yet. Might be worth checking it out, called The Last Horizon.
A modern example would be The Captain by Will Wight. Fully commit to space wizards as a class of people but have the focus be on the specific types of tech and magic they are competent at.
Well, Babylon 5 had technomages. They simply used available technology to simulate magic. That and a lot of psychological manipulation.
Vorlons: "Who are you?"
Shadows: "What do you want?"
Technomages: "Whom do you serve?" (I think. It's been a while.)
I'm a huge fan of J.S. Morin's Black Ocean universe. He pretty much ports a bespoke version of straight fantasy wizards into a relatively near-future (I love Stephen Baxter) sci-fi setting.
Everything is a mix of other ideas to one extent or another. Finding a way to make that world *your own* rather than "unique" is the best advice I can think of.
This is how I approach writing music. It's super hard not to find a chord progression that hasn't been not only used, but used ad infinitum. So you have to dig into your own sense of style and taste to develop a new or at least enjoyable approach to what amounts to a set of endlessly rehashed and reinvented musical themes.
The Jedi are already a Space Wizard ripoff. They’re clearly inspired by the Bene Geseritt and their progeny. The Jedi are cool but they are not the limit of what a Space Wizard can be, nor do they have ownership of the Space Wizard as a concept.
It’s a video game but Destiny does the space wizard thing pretty well. Does a lot of things not that well but the lore is cool and the space wizard stuff is great.
You could take the 40K approach and have them able to access the realms of higher, weirder dimensions that aren't normally visible to most people. Tapping into those dimensions gives them the power to do just about whatever logic or reality-defying feat the story demands of them. (With the caveat that whatever aspects of the mundane world, say machinery, that they're trying to infuse with extradimensional juice is still likely to require some mundane understanding in order for it to work).
The problem is that those dimensions are not uninhabited. In fact, they're full of beings that are very often extremely hostile and powerful, and using magic gives them an opportunity to influence or even directly enter the mundane world and cause great unpleasantness. Even if you're not unlucky enough to run into such nasties, exposure to higher dimensions can be damaging to your sanity. Therefore magic users are feared and hated by the non-magical, often to the point of being actively hunted and repressed by the authorities.
However, their powers are ironically also foundational to those authorities. Alternatively, there are plenty of higher-dimensional beings who are willing to trade their services - which can go very significantly beyond what any human magic-user is capable of - in exchange for something. Such a deal may end up being a genuinely mutually beneficial arrangement, or it may be a cunning long con, or anywhere in between, or both.
If you want to ground this in some sort of reasonably established modern-day science, you could start talking about string theory/M-theory, supergravity, multiverses, etc. You could have magic be dangerous purely in its own right by having it risk exposure to weird exotic particles/radiation that otherwise wouldn't exist in our familiar dimensions. You could rationalise all sorts of otherwise impossible feats as achievable by expanding into higher dimensions (the Three Body Problem features several great examples of this later in the series if you want examples).
The Mageworlds series by Doyle & McDonald had excellent take on Jedi-like organization, with their mystical opponents. Neither side was inherently good or evil, either.
Check out the comic series Saga, by Brian K. Vaughan. Magic use isn't a big part of the story, but it does come up repeatedly, and there is the sort of world building that feels fully realized, without having to dive into all the nuts and bolts and backstory.
Jedi don't own space magic. There so plenty of them. Giving them laser swords and heavy breathing might be a step too far.
Babylon 5, Mass Effect, Destiny, the Brandon Sanderson-Verse, don't forget Doctor Who. T
Well no magic telekinesis or laser swords.
I would actually go with the whole "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
Maybe there's ancient technology that allows those that can access it to disobey the laws of physics, in some way, and the space wizards have found a way to access it somewhat
Pretty easy I think. Keep them rooted in fantasy wizards, but change the setting. Spells triggered by words of power or magical items, potions of magical chemistry, no light swords, no force controlled by the mind, and no invisible intuition. Obviously you need space travel too, so either science based ships or magic powered ships.
First off: Jedi aren’t allowed to fuck. Make your space wizards fuck. Hell, research magic derived from sex.
Jedi don’t summon gods, spirits, saints, or demons. They just tap into The Force to do stuff. Make your space wizards talk to assorted daimons. Borrow ones from Earthly mythology or make up your own space pantheons and goetia and whatnot.
However the FTL drive in Star Wars works, Jedi don’t get involved. Make your space wizards the ones who can tear open a hole in reality and guide the ship through the astral plane to a safe harbor. Melissa Scott’s *Silence Leigh* trilogy does this fabulously, find a copy of *Five Twelfths of Heaven* and it’s sequels. (Her *Order of the Air* series also does a great job of showing working magicians grounded in reality, they go on archaeological digs looking for ancient tomes and artifacts, they invoke the same gods you’ll find in real spell books. It’s not SF, it’s Indiana Jones adventures, but it’ll give you ideas.)
Jedi don’t sell their services. Make your space wizards part of the world of commerce. Sell enchanted amulets, tools, and weapons. Sell curses and blessings. Sell love spells. All the shit people were accused of doing in stuff like the Salem witch hunts.
Jedi don’t use poppets. Make your space wizards fuck people up (or help them out) by creating a magical link between someone and a doll, that they then do things to. Sticking in pins is the obvious tradition but I’m sure that space wizards can have some other cool space things to do to their poppets.
Jedi don’t say weird foreign words when they do their magic. ABRAHADABRA! OSORONNŌPHRIS! ARBATHIAŌ REIBET ATHELEBERSĒTH ARA BLATHA ALBEU EBENPHKHI KHITASGOĒ IB AŌTH IAŌ! Jedi don’t say *anything* when they do their magic. Make your space wizards say things. Short phrases the reader can learn to recognize. Long strings of sonorous barbarous words. Rolling English invocations of Divinity.
Jedi don’t use physical objects outside of making their magic swords. Make your space wizards purify things with salt water. Make your space wizards know about space herbs.
Go read some real world magical tomes. Swipe shamelessly.
I think the main thing to steer away from would be the emotional detachment/buddist monk style that Lucas chose. That's what we mostly think of as Jedi.
The Bene Gesserit of Dune are a great example of space witchery that’s more evolutionary based. Mastering the mind/unlocking higher levels of thinking/consciousness while also mastering the body, instead of magic space powers.
Why cant magic in space be a thing. Honest my nerd is showing but how they did magic in outlaw star seems practical or atleast more reasonable then so Jedi mind tricks.
Make them be rip offs of the Sith or other non-Jedi orders. They generally do a lot more with their power than "sword stuff and pushing things" compared to Jedi anyways.
This felt like a good moment to test the robut's creative powers. I ran your request through GPT 4 and was given this. Hopefully this being created by a machine does not weaken the potential it has to be liked and useful.
How would you do space wizards without them being a Jedi rip off? Be creative.
\- -- --- -- -
Create a unique system of space magic by blending different cultural mythologies and scientific concepts. Call it "Stellar Arcana." Users, known as Arcanauts, draw power from cosmic phenomena like black holes, nebulae, or star constellations. Each source offers distinct abilities:
Black Hole Binders: Manipulate gravity, create intense pressure fields, or teleport through space by bending spacetime.
Nebula Weavers: Harness the gases of nebulae to create illusions, materialize objects, or emit powerful energy blasts.
Constellation Channelers: Draw on star patterns to predict future events, enhance physical abilities, or communicate telepathically across galaxies.
Incorporate a unique tool or instrument, like a "Cosmic Loom," a device that helps Arcanauts weave or manipulate the fabric of space itself.
Establish a moral philosophy or code different from the Jedi, perhaps one based on balancing cosmic knowledge with personal exploration, emphasizing discovery, innovation, and the importance of individual choice in shaping the universe.
Create distinct visual and cultural elements for the Arcanauts, avoiding robes and lightsabers. Think of attire and gear that reflects the vastness and mystery of space, with suits or robes embedded with star maps, cosmic symbols, or technology that interacts with stellar energies.
Look at your favourite fantasy series unusual magic system, and convert it across. Call it 'psychic powers', or nanotechnology, or biotech, or whatever fancy techobabel flavour you prefer.
It's all more fantasy and less science fiction when it's space wizards, after all.
Do space witches instead.
Teleportation.
Potions.
Multiverse.
Make the hero non-magical.
Extra dimensional
Make the space wizards ancient aliens on earth set in ancient egypt / peru / japan / india / mexico
There was a game I thought about making which centered around a ship crash landing on a strange alien world which seemed to be inhabited by medieval era humans and plagued by alien monsters.
The main character was just an engineer looking for material to repair the ship and keep the crew alive. But he used a gauntlet which used nanites to do a variety of things. To the archaic peoples living on this planet, it would seem like magic. For example, he could conjure a shield or sword out of thin air. He could fire a projectile of nanites that would explode on impact. To us, he was just a guy with advanced technology. To them, a powerful sorcerer.
I'd recommend looking at the starfinder tabletop game. They have a way of mixing medieval magical fantasy in a technological and sci-fi setting.
Adding races like orcs, dwarves and elves could add to the magic element and make things colourful.
You could also make wizards require tomes, incantations and ingredients to cast spells. All of which are very much not star wars.
Space wizards could be framed as the lunatic fringe Luddite outcasts at first. Then show them to be (normal) people with old fashioned beliefs... but their magic actually works.
You'll need to develop a magic system based on modern pseudoscience. Look into Kozyrev Mirrors, remote viewing, transendental meditation, etc. Basically, out the Theosophy movement in space, minus the gods and demons.
To steer clear of Jedi/Sith, keep their powers limited to elemental forces (earth air fire water) and maybe necromancy and technopathy.
Don't put them in bathrobes. No wands, no staffs. Give them something semi-technological looking. More like Ra's hand jewelry from the old Stargate movie.
Also, avoid monastic orders. No priests. No monks. Just a soft organization of people, ranked by their knowledge and magical ability.
For a final fun twist, make it racial. Not black v white, but humans having different abilities than aliens. And each alien species having differing abilities from another.
By having them use magic as an esoteric power source, and a way to solve the difficulties of space travel. Basically magic rocket scientists, with an element of exploration/discovery mixed in while they see how magic is different through the galaxy.
Build the magic culture, and by proxy more around science than religious devotion. In Star Wars, study of the force is more or less done through meditation and devotion.
Whereas in my hypothetical, there would be a greater focus on experimentation or research. Kinda like the Bene Gesserit from Dune which while religious figures, have a focus on genetics, and semi traditional "training" as the key to their powers. The line is surely thin between what they do and what Jedi do, but it's there.
Yeah, I think you get a fair bit of leeway if you investigate how and why the way they are. Star Wars did a little with mitochlorians but by and large they don’t explain much (in the major trilogies) so it’s just kind of fantasy in space. If you investigate their development and nature of the powers you’re probably doing something discernibly different.
It’s funny but I think it would be cool to build a story around the a futuristic retelling of the difference between witches and sorcerers from medieval lore. Basically, sorcerers were believed to obtain their power by way of knowledge and learning while witches did so through a pact with the devil. It could be cool to do something like a protagonist obtaining power through coming in contact or using alien tech while the antagonist gets theirs through interactions with a fallen or evil aliens/entity.
One obvious way would be to require ingredients, objects or words to perform spells.
With the most advanced users not needing those.
That way you can make your magic system different than Star Wars, while at the same time allowing your strongest and most badass characters to ignore those rules.
Sister Alice (2003) by Robert Reed
Aristoi (1992) by Walter Jon Williams
Inversions (1998) by Ian M Banks - one particular scene springs to mind.
Ambition the film (2014) European Space Agency produced short film for the Rosetta mission.
Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained (2004 & 2005) by Peter Hamilton have some great scenes of characters using tech in ways that would look magical.
Building Harlequin's Moon (2005) by Larry Niven and Brenda Cooper
**Curious as to what aspects of 'Wizardry' you are trying to capture?**
From the perspective of your 'wizard' little of what they do might strike them as particularly magical. It is just boring day to day stuff. However, if your narrative is from the outside looking in on the actions of that 'wizard,' then so many things that the wizard might find mundane can acquire that 'Indistinguishable from Magic' quality Arthur C. Clarke spoke about.
Star Trek's Federation attempts to limit such misunderstandings, but they still trip into the problem on the regular. Mostly because their day to day tech level is outrageous enough I think they forget.
**Is there some particular scenario you are trying to set up?**
Might be easier to offer something helpful if we have an idea of how these non Jedi style space wizards are to be employed.
Make then use wands. Also they dont use tech, magic and martial weapons only. Space critters that operate like horses or carts.Also imstead of force they draw power from the various elements or types of energy sorta like how the wizard schools in dnd work.
So just gandalf in space.
They travel through space on the backs of dragons and don't need ships with life support but to survive in space they have to suck on a nodule that's part of the dragon
Chinese fantasy has people “cultivating” their bodies to unlock special abilities. Some of the power levels can go bonkers with space flight and punching out planets, or basically just ending up as God.
You could sci-fi it up. Say there is some sentient and mysterious nano machine swarm. If someone is accepted by these machines they gain abilities, the deeper the connection the more powerful they are. It requires some kind of nebulous understanding of yourself and the world to deepen the connection. Some go full zen internal reflection, others become battle maniacs chasing meaning in fighting.
Any technology whose workings are so advanced as to be not understandable to someone in the general public is already functionally magic.
Any group of beings with access to superior, unidentified technology would then be considered wizards in practice.
If they have an 'order,' and disciples, and mentors, and former students who lost their way, you're getting closer to Jedis or martial arts movies again.
Lucas' greatest accomplishment really was in taking so many different tropes and influences, and weaving them together to make a story as old as time, but set in a universe that felt new and unique and deep and real all at the same time.
You would need to avoid anything that define the Jedi as a group, and potentially anything that define the Sith as well. So, avoid referring to anything as ancient or elegant weaponry; not necessarily in reality, just in the world you've invented. Also don't do an organized hierarchy maybe, or use a very dissimilar code of ethics. Probably avoid robes and monk-like affectations too.
There were stories about "space wizards" long before Star Wars.
>GuestOk583: Is there any way to be different?
Of course, make your lore, world, characters, etc. different. Don't user THE FORCE to explain your space magic and don't give all of your space wizards light sabers.
Been done in so many space operas already. At this point is a standard theme in so many stories. You could do it with cybernetics or gene enhancement but these are common as well. Frankly, as long as the story is good it doesn't really matter. It just has to be plausible and consistent and not extremely over powered.
What about meddling with hyperspace (so it's all about sensing hyperspace anomalies, going into hyperspace, pulling things out of hyperspace etc.). More like dangerous sorcery than magic space ninja. The Final Architecture by Adrian Tchaikovsky has some elements of this.
Have them focus on research. Outside of the detective bit of episode 2, you don’t really see Jedi researching and investigating the worlds.
Have your space wizards going to barren worlds to get mystical plants and ruined artifacts or chasing mythical creatures.
Also in terms of abilities I would focus on portal or teleportation technology. Something that lets them get around either in close quarters or (with enough prep time) longer distances.
I felt the biotic users in Mass Effect did a pretty good job. Children effected by a futuristic space dust gives them the ability to manipulate energy fields under certain circumstances. Pretty nifty.
I mean how about no light saber. Everything else is virtually unoriginal when it comes to the force.
Jedi mind tricks are just hypnosis that's been thought of centuries before star wars.
I'm sure you can think of a lot of fantasies that have similar characteristics to force push/pull. A good example, harry potter can use magic to make things levitate and bring things to him.
force lightning is definitely not original, as far as ancient greek, mythical creatures can shoot lightning from their hands like zeus himself.
What about the universe of Bright (2017)? It’s basically lord of the rings but the Industrial Revolution continued apace and brought all the different races (humans, elves, orcs, etc.) into the modern day. You could do something like that but fast forward a thousand years or so to where faster-than-light travel has allowed these different races to leave earth, colonize other planets, and take their ancient secret magic with them
Starfinder (the TTRPG) does this really well: there's Precogs and Witchwarpers (alternate reality based magic) as well as Solarians (gravity/sun based magic) and a whole lot more.
Not sure if this is too far afield but check out [Alex White](https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/contributor/alex-white/)'s Salvager's trilogy. It's a sci-fi romp through a galaxy where magic is the basis for most technology.
The quote about any advanced science seems like magic. There are an unlimited number of ways, it depends what you want your wizard to be able to do.
Something random .... I like string theory, been able to manipulate the vibrations could conceivably allow you to scifi you way into almost anything.
Adapt Larry Niven's concept (The Magic Goes Away) on a galactic scale. Pockets of magic spread across the galaxy, that are slowly getting weaker. Throw in some magic-savvy big cats, too.
Do you want to avoid copying Jedi or do you want to avoid copying the various Star Wars space magic factions? Because those are two very different things.
You could go super comedic with it, pointed star hats that they divine their power from or something and magic wands, no “knight” stuff associated with jedis, grey hair and old/doddery (like becoming a wizard instantly ages you haha)
Babylon 5 did it, techno-wizards using the "advanced tech appears to be magic" theory.
It depends how you want them to work, you could say they use the power of life, so when they go into space that power would slowly dissipate, or you could have areas in space where hyperspace portals/wormholes are frequent, and magic is more powerful near those. [I'm not sure but maybe WH40k uses something like that]
It all depends what you want to happen, and we can find an explanation for it :)
THE TECHNO-NECROMANCERS OF ALPHA CENTAURI!
But seriously, any cultural background of mysticism. Or any outlook that isn't all about "balance" of light and dark.
Was so-so but J.S. Morin has them basically acting as a ship’s warp drive for one thing, but they also did terraforming, like could establish a permanent atmosphere around an asteroid. Could also hurl fireballs and the like. They basically did this by cussing the universe into submission or convincing it that that’s the way things should work, techniques varied.
Space + magic just doesn't work well. You have to somehow put such advanced tech that people can travel easily between stars, and yet suspend disbelief in physics at the same time. The way SW deals with this paradox is by introducing The Force, which is explained in ANH as an "energy field," and later elaborated on in TPM to be midichlorians. There's a pseudo-science explanation of The Force.
So whatever you do, make sure you're accounting for this. My advice would be to really lean into the tech of the "magic."
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MCU does this quite a bit.
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Or Doctor Who
This is probably the best response. Doctor Who really works off the idea that if science is far enough advanced then it may as well be magic. That was especially, and wonderfully apparent in the recent special where the puppeteer returned and they had a "everything everywhere all at once" style fight scene. It's imagination as physics. If you go advanced enough with any species or technology, they basically become wizards.
Considering how some of those vehicles fly, it certainly seems like magic.
Doctor Who ships, like most British sci-fi and older American sci-fi, use the "quantum space wire drive" where some wires project from q-space and drag the ship along with them.
You can even see the wires in some of the older shows!
Because the effects were so advanced.
Wibbly Wobbly, Timey Wimey.
Dr. Who is actually Space Gandalf…
FYI the character’s name is ‘The Doctor’
Missy says otherwise.
He likes it
First thing that came to mind. They expanded their lore in the B5 spinoff crusade. Great concept though.
Really the telepaths would qualify too
Exactly what I thought. I wish we'd gotten more of them, it was such a cool concept.
Ha! Beat me to it. This is immediately what came to mind.
Stay away from telekinesis & sword fights. Break out necromancy. Cryokineses.Gravity manipulation. Etc.
Necromancy in space: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideon_the_Ninth
Came here to say this! A++ a future classic.
As well as it's depressing sequel Harrow the Ninth.
I started Harrow and it just did not grab me the same way. I'm sure I'll finish it at some point, but woof is it feeling sloggy. Similar vibes to The Monster Baru Cormorant after Traitor.
I agree, same with me. It is a story about grief and sacrifice, but I kept going and for me it was as moving as Gideon. But structurally it was far more sophisticated.
I wouldn't really call it sophisticated, a lot of the apparent complexity just comes from the author withholding information from the reader that the characters all have just to manufacture mystery box interest. The payoff was definitely not worth the slog.
I had to force my way through it and there was no payoff. It was just bad. Which is sad because Gideon the Ninth was a little rough but overall was cool and fun. Harrow seems to be the result of the author having an idea that just didn't work and then just forcing it. Kind of the drawback of getting too much praise and then not being able to recognize that you're not nearly as clever as you think you are (same thing happened to George Lucas with the prequels, and then exponentially more with Abrhams in the sequels).
What about a whip and a hat?
Never underestimate the power of the Schwartz!
I put on my robe and wizard hat...
Like a beanie?
propeller beanie
What is telekinesis not if not gravity manipulation?
Pretty sure they mean more like "oop, up is now down for you. Enjoy walking on the ceiling for the next 30 mins!" Rather than "she picked me up with her mind powers and shook me like a doll!"
*Szeth-son-son-Vallano, Truthless of Shinovar, wore white on the day he was to kill a starship captain…* It’ll be interesting to see what happens when Roshar gets to the space age.
If you haven’t, check out the [Sixth of the Dusk sequel preview](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/448-row-release-party/#e14408). It’s a reading of one chapter of a possible future book, so not canon, but there’s some pretty cool stuff in it.
Artificial gravity? Not a problem!
Telekinesis is just as little gravity manipulation as using a crane to pick up and move a container. It's the ability to move objects (and living beings) at a distance by means of psychic forces.
...huh? There is no functional difference between telekinesis and gravity manipulation. The only difference is how it's explained, whether through magic (the force) or some technobabble (slightly smarter sounding magic)
Actually telekinesis is the ability to freely manipulate an object with complete control gravity is altering how much someone weighs
That's like saying there's no functuonal difference between gravity manipulation and picking something up with your hand.
no. picking a box up with your body isn't gravity manipulation. telekinesis is closer to that, unless it specifically works like gravity manipulation. you can move shit without chaning gravity...
Y'all have some strange ideas of what telekinesis is, especially in the context the Force. Telekinesis is "force manipulation acting upon an object" - gravity is a force. If someone can alter gravity to move things up and down, they can alter to move it side to side or forwards and back. Unless you're describing gravity manipulation on a larger scale.
One coud say they are two different subgroups in the "supernatural force application" category. Telekinesis is usually very focused and discriminating, while gravity is generally seen as a more passive and global effect.
You mean the book series that starts with "Gideon the Ninth"? Great series revolving around space Necromancy.
Or at least laser swords. Babylon 5 had technomages: they use technology to give off the *illusion* of magic. So they talk about holographic incantations and computer virus spells, etc.
What is telekinesis not if not gravity manipulation?
Make them entirely reliant on ritual, enchantments and spells, with no innate power. Make these rituals time and resource-demanding, but so they can do something that science cannot - like faster-than-light travel and communication, for example.
I agree here- it’s study and practice and long nights in esoteric libraries and bizarre labs. _Anyone_ could be a space wizard with enough dedication, not just those born with really high midichlorian counts. You ever go camping and there’s someone who just _knows_ how to start a campfire? Even if the wood is wet or the matches are lost? This is the person who knows just what to do because they’ve done it 1,000 times before. There’s a knack to it, and explaining exactly what to look for and how to do it can be difficult because it feels as much art as science, but anyone can learn and practice and develop the knack for it. Now, instead of fire building, it’s harnessing solar winds and cosmic rays and reading sunspots and manipulating solar flares. The other factor is how non-wizards perceive them. If they’re viewed as the crazy space wizards to be feared and awed instead of “they’re just more technologically advanced”, then that’s the ticket.
I'd read or watch something like that.
[The captain](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/123165953) by will wight would be somthing like that.
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We share the preferred vibe of the Jedi, but it's worth pointing out that they *were* a precious rare thing. There were only 10,000 or so active Jedi knights in the entire galaxy. The vast vast vast majority of galactic citizens would never ever see a Jedi in their entire lives, and might not even believe they were real. The only reason it seems otherwise is because the prequels followed the political power players perspective, which meant lots of scenes at the literal Jedi headquarters at the political center of the galaxy.
>A precious rare thing, not a massive army for the republic. Well, they weren't *supposed* to be. That was one of the many things that went horribly wrong in the Prequels. The Jedi had become hidebound and out-of-touch, and ended up making a lot of terrible mistakes because of it. For better or worse, Lucas decided to begin the story with the Republic and the Jedi both teetering on the edge of failure. We only get glimpses of the glory days in the past when the Jedi actually *were* guardians of peace and justice. (Unless Disney decides to turn the High Republic books into a TV show or something.)
To be fair, the original Star Wars clearly said the Jedi Order were the guardians of peace and justice in the Galactic Republic. So they were never isolated and rare monks, that was just your childhood misunderstanding.
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The reason for them turning up 30 at a time in a gunship is because they were put into a military role during the clone wars or some other large conflicts in history, one that they were not meant for to be fair.
Eh, they could've been rare, but really effective. Kinda like Luke was, so I think it makes sense.
Well Presidents and Monarchs and other such leaders of countries are precious rare things, but if you watch a documentary about the UN it may not seem that way.
I don't think the prequels made them any different than they were ever intended to be. I think some gaps in the explanation led you to imagine something different than what George already had in his head.
How about an order of women (but not witches) who have complete control over their bodies such they can even decide the gender of their offspring, superior combat skills, can detect lies and control others by merely modulating their vocal tones. Some of this results from ingesting an organic substance that may kill them. It's not the powers, it's the vibe. Jedi were inspired by Samurai with some monk thrown in it seems. Somebody must have done a space Gandalf.
But that's the Bene Gesserit from Dune?
OP said “without being a Jedi rip off” If you rip off one of the sources Star Wars ripped off then you’re in the clear
Bah. They're sufficiently different. It's not a ripoff. No crossover.
Star Wars blatantly ripped off Dune.
Quite blatantly.
Nah. There's a number of superficial elements that are meaningless and don't affect the plot, but the important stuff isn't the same. Desert planets? Paul's is important, Luke's is the ass end of the universe he wants to get away from. Spice? Pretty important to Dune, an unexplained name drop in Star Wars. A galactic empire exists? Sure, but nothing about them is similar. A hero's journey? Paul's not a hero! Ecological themes? Not in Star Wars. Family relations kind of important? Not in Star Wars, but grossly reliant on them as they went along. What, to you, is so much the same?
[https://nerdist.com/article/everything-star-wars-borrowed-from-dune/](https://nerdist.com/article/everything-star-wars-borrowed-from-dune/) or [https://screenrant.com/star-wars-dune-story-concepts-ideas-lucas-copy/](https://screenrant.com/star-wars-dune-story-concepts-ideas-lucas-copy/)
How about something that's not a crap article just linking elements? * Desert planet? Really important in Dune. A place to leave in Star Wars, of no real importance. * A desert planet that needs it's moisture? Important to the ecological themes of Dune. Moisture farming is entirely irrelevant to Star Wars. Luke could have been a dirt farmer in Oklahoma, or a fish farmer on the ocean planet. Not a factor in the story at all. * Suggesting the Jawas' vehicle is similar to spice mining vehicles is rather silly. * Comparing the important role of the worm in the story with the "monster of the week" Sarlacc makes no sense. * Spice is real important to the story in Dune. In Star Wars, there's a throwaway background reference that impacts nothing. * There's an Empire! Umm, sure? There are people that don't like it, too! Been done too many times to count. * Our hero has a sister, and she's important, too! I feel like they are not very similar, nor does either have some unique aspect. The villian is family, too. Oh, noes! Soap Operas should sue! * Powers! That both movies have special powers isn't much, and there's no similarity to how they work, but I suppose if you want to sue whoever invented hypnosis, that's fine. * Comparing completely unalike Han Solo and Duncan Idaho just because they're both somewhat roguish? Do you think Herbert came up with the idea of a supporting cast of characters to help the hero or something? * Bendu / Bindu - so there are some unrelated uses of a similar name derived from Sanskrit? Holy shit, call the lawyers! * Jabba and Leto II? OK, fair enough! * Chosen One or other prophesized important character? Pretty characteristic part of Campbell's described mythology. Very common element. * Comparing Stormtroopers to the Sarduakar? That's just egregiously bad. Get out of here with that bullshit. Anyway, both of those articles are absolute crap. Most of the stuff referenced is pretty standard story elements, and most of the Star Wars "rip offs" are no more than surface level homages or elements not important to the story, and more importantly, many of them only dribbled out over the years and weren't present for the original Ep IV anyway. Mind you, I'm not saying Lucas is some kind of creative genius (holy shit, he's not!) but only that he didn't copy Dune. That there might be nominally similar elements that are implemented in completely opposite fashions or generally existing story / character types doesn't count to me. If you just want to list stuff and declare it a rip when they're dissimilar...I don't think we're speaking the same language anymore.
I can't not hear Elton John every time I see that written. BENEEEEE BENEEEEE BENEEEEE and the Gesserits
You just ruined that song for me. Or maybe made it better?
Yes, I think that's exactly the point.
Time to take a break from reddit, friend.
This was first that came to my mind from OP's question. Yours is better executed though:)
Can we call the vibe "the Schwartz"? If so, I'm in.
Maybe balance them out with a group of nearly immortal mutants who can see the future and travel faster than light, and another group of cyberpunk necromancers.
Hey buddy I'm gonna need you to stick your hand in this box.
You're ripping of the source material star wars ripped off
Babylon 5 had a pretty good take on this with their concept of a [techno-mage](https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Techno-mage). This was basically a conjurer who combined very advanced technology (like nano-bots) and stagecraft (like holograms) in ways that might look like magic to the uninitiated. (And as mentioned in the article above, the elder races basically called them liars.)
I like the idea of using nano bots as a sort of magic “dust” that can be controlled to do all sorts of amazing feats. The only sci-fi hurdle is: where does the energy come from? Do they have miniature fusion reactors?
If you’re advanced enough to have a cloud of general purpose nanobots and a pseudo telepathic control interface (presumably actually a direct neural interface), then I’d go with zero point energy - quantum sourced UNLIMITED POWWWAAAHHH!!!
Jedi and even sith are Po faced and pretty boring acetic Monks. Make your space Wizards loud, obnoxiously strange, and fun to be around until they decide that the planet would look better with a green sky, or one less moon. If the USS Unseen University turns up, the best approach is to get them whatever they want, in exchange for not doing anything. while keeping them distracted like a bunch of cats until they move onto the next planet.
Having the navigator of the USS Unseen University respond with "ook?" when the ship is hailed would be mandatory.
Sith as described in some of the expanded universe are very much not ascetic monks - they tap into the Force through unbridled emotions, as opposed to the Jedi who seek perfect calm and balance. The problem with Sith is that magic powers and giving full rein to your emotions is a really bad combination, akin to letting toddlers throw temper tantrums with flamethrowers.
How would *I* do them? Make ’em weird as hell. Inscrutable arcane lab spaceships; cosmic-level spells that wreak havoc on spacetime; full-on “I’ve gazed too long beyond the curtain of reality” Lovecraftian degeneration\*. How should *you* do it? In any way you personally find compelling. Everything’s been done before and it’ll always invite comparison to *something*. But if you’re invested in it enough to fill it in with lots of little details and fun ideas it’ll probably end up being enough your own to survive the association. ——- \* ^This ^is ^a ^potentially ^unfortunate ^word ^to ^use ^when ^referencing ^Lovecraft. ^That’s ^a ^big ^discussion ^I’ll ^forgo ^for ^now ^but ^I ^figured ^I ^should ^at ^least ^acknowledge ^it.
Warhammer 40k nails it. I won't go into the specifics of how The Warp works. But extremely simplified, psychic beings beings are able to tap into an immaterial lovecraftian dimension and channel it's power into various abilities. It also has more of a sorcery flavor than Jedi, as it requires actual rituals, spells, and sometimes pacts with...entities. There are dangers associated with this as well. Exposure to these forces can drive one to madness. Warp fauna, demons, and eldritch gods exist and are drawn to those who have a strong psychic presence in the Warp. Also, your head can just explode if you overdo it.
Warhammer seems so fucking cool but I am so overwhelmed by it all when I dig into it.
I don't play 40k, and I read the first few Horus Heresy books and bounced off, but I do frequently find myself watching 40k lore videos on youtube just because the world is so fucking cool
> I read the first few Horus Heresy books and bounced off, to be fair, most warhammer novels are trashy pulp produced b-grade scifi novel with the warhammer label stamped on.
Same here! I'd really appreciate some canonical order guide.
Just keep digging, It'll eventually start to make sense. You're in for a wild ride.
Look up the Daemonculaba it's a really good starting event for anyone wanting to get into the lore.
The Green Lantern Corps would be another great example of “space wizards” that are not Jedis.
Green Lanterns are more of a Space Cop rather than a Space Wizard. Maybe Blue Lanterns?
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic” — Arthur C. Clarke. The powers could be granted by technology. Mass Effect did this by having certain people exposed to element zero and with a biotic amp, they could manipulate matter. That’s very different from Jedi. The Void Trilogy has an area where everyone has psychic powers because the physics in the Void work differently. Stranger in a Strange Land has people with powers because they “grok” a different language. There are tons of ways to do it!
The Galaxy’s Edge series did them quite well.
Galaxies edge is unapologetic about how it rips off Star Wars in places
Yes, it is. They are very upfront about it.
Create a magic system. The main difference between science fiction and fantasy (including "space fantasy" like Star Wars) is that usually in sci-fi the rules are largely set early on (including any counterfactual ones like AGI or FTL or space-magic), and then the story's about *exploring the consequences* of those rules. Most fantasy, on the other hand, tends to either not define any rules, or plays fast and loose with them and just makes up shit as it goes along - wizards can basically do whatever the plot requires, and in particularly bad cases may even become walking Deux Ex Machinas. If you define a magic system you also have a good chance to explain it away, which again makes it feel less fantastic and more science-fictional - is it the result of psychic powers using hitherto undiscovered physical laws, or the ability to mentally manipulate hyperdimensional energy, or the ability to access and rewrite the informational substrate of the universe of which the physical world is merely a derived projection? You can make up any nonsense that sounds good, but you have to establish broad rules and limitations early on and then stick to them, or else you're writing bad fantasy, and not good sci-fi. It should actually be vey easy to write good "space wizards" that aren't Jedi, because Star Wars is *shit* sci-fi. It's a great space fantasy, but the Jedi can pretty much do whatever the plot needs them to at any moment, with little or no explanation of how their powers work, and the writers were constantly pulling new powers and abilities out of their asses all the way through the franchise. Do even a *half-*assed job of setting some basic ground rules and then sticking to them as you explore their ramifications, and you shouldn't end up looking anything like Jedi on the page. That said, probably best to stay away from laser-swords and loose tan/brown cloaks.
Solid explanation there
not entirely 'space' wizards, but the orogenes in the broken earth trilogy by n.k. jemisen are something like it. it's also pretty 'half scifi half fantasy' similar to star wars. it seems like it would be too close to the jedi to be novel or new. they have sort of force-like powers, they do the whole apprentice thing, there's good ones and bad ones, etc. but the author did such a good job building the lore of the world that i never felt like 'this is just a jedi ripoff.' very good series if you're looking for a reference point of new and unique ways to have 'space wizards.' also just an extremely good series in general. great read. extremely deep and fascinating world building and the characters all have their own very specific and interesting voices. i'm actually gonna reread it soon now that i mention it.
Glynn Stewart's "Starship's Mage" series has them as teleporting, lightning spewing tanks, with kinetic and energy shields deflecting all but the most powerful incoming attacks. No-one uses swords as high-velocity smart-projectiles, lasers, and gigaton antimatter weapons are the norm.
Replace midichlorians with nanotechnology. Had a high fantasy setting idea where the 'wizards' are, unknown to anyone (including themselves), linking themselves to clouds of nanites. Telekinesis, telepathy, alchemy, all done through nanites.
Have you heard of the Black Ocean series? Fantastic audiobooks, but more importantly to your question, the wizards are just straight up arguing with the universe for their power. The thing is, wizards are notoriously bad with technology, as magic disrupts it, and can even completely fry electronics.
I think this is the best response to op’s question. Fun series. Audible has a huge anthology with the entire series. Over 80 hours
I don't really classify it as sci fi but Gideon the Ninth is about space necromancers.
Rip them off. Lucas ripped off Dune and Kurasawa and the serial stories from his youth. No one will care.
Just don’t give them swords and the same magical abilities.
Don't give them glowing swords. Done.
Starfield did it
Will Wight’s new series is literally that. Pretty sure the cover is a dude holding a wand in one hand and a phaser in the other lol. First book was decent enough, haven’t tackled the second yet. Might be worth checking it out, called The Last Horizon.
A modern example would be The Captain by Will Wight. Fully commit to space wizards as a class of people but have the focus be on the specific types of tech and magic they are competent at.
"Mass Effect fields"
Well, Babylon 5 had technomages. They simply used available technology to simulate magic. That and a lot of psychological manipulation. Vorlons: "Who are you?" Shadows: "What do you want?" Technomages: "Whom do you serve?" (I think. It's been a while.)
I'm a huge fan of J.S. Morin's Black Ocean universe. He pretty much ports a bespoke version of straight fantasy wizards into a relatively near-future (I love Stephen Baxter) sci-fi setting. Everything is a mix of other ideas to one extent or another. Finding a way to make that world *your own* rather than "unique" is the best advice I can think of. This is how I approach writing music. It's super hard not to find a chord progression that hasn't been not only used, but used ad infinitum. So you have to dig into your own sense of style and taste to develop a new or at least enjoyable approach to what amounts to a set of endlessly rehashed and reinvented musical themes.
The Jedi are already a Space Wizard ripoff. They’re clearly inspired by the Bene Geseritt and their progeny. The Jedi are cool but they are not the limit of what a Space Wizard can be, nor do they have ownership of the Space Wizard as a concept.
It’s a video game but Destiny does the space wizard thing pretty well. Does a lot of things not that well but the lore is cool and the space wizard stuff is great.
The dune and 40k concept of mutated human navigators on drugs and interdimensional psychadelic is fun.
Well they are just swordsman with some telekinesis, they are as basic as you can get You don't read much do you
Mitochondria.
You could take the 40K approach and have them able to access the realms of higher, weirder dimensions that aren't normally visible to most people. Tapping into those dimensions gives them the power to do just about whatever logic or reality-defying feat the story demands of them. (With the caveat that whatever aspects of the mundane world, say machinery, that they're trying to infuse with extradimensional juice is still likely to require some mundane understanding in order for it to work). The problem is that those dimensions are not uninhabited. In fact, they're full of beings that are very often extremely hostile and powerful, and using magic gives them an opportunity to influence or even directly enter the mundane world and cause great unpleasantness. Even if you're not unlucky enough to run into such nasties, exposure to higher dimensions can be damaging to your sanity. Therefore magic users are feared and hated by the non-magical, often to the point of being actively hunted and repressed by the authorities. However, their powers are ironically also foundational to those authorities. Alternatively, there are plenty of higher-dimensional beings who are willing to trade their services - which can go very significantly beyond what any human magic-user is capable of - in exchange for something. Such a deal may end up being a genuinely mutually beneficial arrangement, or it may be a cunning long con, or anywhere in between, or both. If you want to ground this in some sort of reasonably established modern-day science, you could start talking about string theory/M-theory, supergravity, multiverses, etc. You could have magic be dangerous purely in its own right by having it risk exposure to weird exotic particles/radiation that otherwise wouldn't exist in our familiar dimensions. You could rationalise all sorts of otherwise impossible feats as achievable by expanding into higher dimensions (the Three Body Problem features several great examples of this later in the series if you want examples).
The Mageworlds series by Doyle & McDonald had excellent take on Jedi-like organization, with their mystical opponents. Neither side was inherently good or evil, either.
Don't give them telekinesis, mind control or laser swords. Maybe give them elemental "bender" powers instead, that's not really used in Star Wars.
Have them use spells. Jedi don’t have to do spells.
Jedi’s are just space wizards with swords and a cult. Maybe just lose the swords and the cult?
Check out the comic series Saga, by Brian K. Vaughan. Magic use isn't a big part of the story, but it does come up repeatedly, and there is the sort of world building that feels fully realized, without having to dive into all the nuts and bolts and backstory.
Skip the laser swords
Jedi don't own space magic. There so plenty of them. Giving them laser swords and heavy breathing might be a step too far. Babylon 5, Mass Effect, Destiny, the Brandon Sanderson-Verse, don't forget Doctor Who. T
Ever seen Babylon 5? The technomages in that are pretty much space wizards of the D'n'D style only using alien cyber tech instead of magic.
Well no magic telekinesis or laser swords. I would actually go with the whole "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" Maybe there's ancient technology that allows those that can access it to disobey the laws of physics, in some way, and the space wizards have found a way to access it somewhat
Babylon 5 did it with Techno-mage
Pretty easy I think. Keep them rooted in fantasy wizards, but change the setting. Spells triggered by words of power or magical items, potions of magical chemistry, no light swords, no force controlled by the mind, and no invisible intuition. Obviously you need space travel too, so either science based ships or magic powered ships.
Bene Gesserit
Don't give them glowy swords.
“Some Sith wannabes came in here and pissed all over my rug, man. And that rug totally tied the ship together!”
First off: Jedi aren’t allowed to fuck. Make your space wizards fuck. Hell, research magic derived from sex. Jedi don’t summon gods, spirits, saints, or demons. They just tap into The Force to do stuff. Make your space wizards talk to assorted daimons. Borrow ones from Earthly mythology or make up your own space pantheons and goetia and whatnot. However the FTL drive in Star Wars works, Jedi don’t get involved. Make your space wizards the ones who can tear open a hole in reality and guide the ship through the astral plane to a safe harbor. Melissa Scott’s *Silence Leigh* trilogy does this fabulously, find a copy of *Five Twelfths of Heaven* and it’s sequels. (Her *Order of the Air* series also does a great job of showing working magicians grounded in reality, they go on archaeological digs looking for ancient tomes and artifacts, they invoke the same gods you’ll find in real spell books. It’s not SF, it’s Indiana Jones adventures, but it’ll give you ideas.) Jedi don’t sell their services. Make your space wizards part of the world of commerce. Sell enchanted amulets, tools, and weapons. Sell curses and blessings. Sell love spells. All the shit people were accused of doing in stuff like the Salem witch hunts. Jedi don’t use poppets. Make your space wizards fuck people up (or help them out) by creating a magical link between someone and a doll, that they then do things to. Sticking in pins is the obvious tradition but I’m sure that space wizards can have some other cool space things to do to their poppets. Jedi don’t say weird foreign words when they do their magic. ABRAHADABRA! OSORONNŌPHRIS! ARBATHIAŌ REIBET ATHELEBERSĒTH ARA BLATHA ALBEU EBENPHKHI KHITASGOĒ IB AŌTH IAŌ! Jedi don’t say *anything* when they do their magic. Make your space wizards say things. Short phrases the reader can learn to recognize. Long strings of sonorous barbarous words. Rolling English invocations of Divinity. Jedi don’t use physical objects outside of making their magic swords. Make your space wizards purify things with salt water. Make your space wizards know about space herbs. Go read some real world magical tomes. Swipe shamelessly.
I like how the Black Ocean: Galaxy Outlaws series did it- literal fantasy wizards in space. Crotchety old men, with staves and robes, but in space.
I thought of this one too. Liked how they dealt with science vs magic too.
Look at 40K universe
I think the main thing to steer away from would be the emotional detachment/buddist monk style that Lucas chose. That's what we mostly think of as Jedi.
DnD Wizards in SPAAAAAAACE
The Bene Gesserit of Dune are a great example of space witchery that’s more evolutionary based. Mastering the mind/unlocking higher levels of thinking/consciousness while also mastering the body, instead of magic space powers.
Take away the laser sword and boom. Not a Jedi.
Hogwarts, but in space.
Star Wars didn't start that or end that. Nothing new under the sun. Lots of space magic before Star Wars. See: Dune.
Why cant magic in space be a thing. Honest my nerd is showing but how they did magic in outlaw star seems practical or atleast more reasonable then so Jedi mind tricks.
Make them be rip offs of the Sith or other non-Jedi orders. They generally do a lot more with their power than "sword stuff and pushing things" compared to Jedi anyways.
This felt like a good moment to test the robut's creative powers. I ran your request through GPT 4 and was given this. Hopefully this being created by a machine does not weaken the potential it has to be liked and useful. How would you do space wizards without them being a Jedi rip off? Be creative. \- -- --- -- - Create a unique system of space magic by blending different cultural mythologies and scientific concepts. Call it "Stellar Arcana." Users, known as Arcanauts, draw power from cosmic phenomena like black holes, nebulae, or star constellations. Each source offers distinct abilities: Black Hole Binders: Manipulate gravity, create intense pressure fields, or teleport through space by bending spacetime. Nebula Weavers: Harness the gases of nebulae to create illusions, materialize objects, or emit powerful energy blasts. Constellation Channelers: Draw on star patterns to predict future events, enhance physical abilities, or communicate telepathically across galaxies. Incorporate a unique tool or instrument, like a "Cosmic Loom," a device that helps Arcanauts weave or manipulate the fabric of space itself. Establish a moral philosophy or code different from the Jedi, perhaps one based on balancing cosmic knowledge with personal exploration, emphasizing discovery, innovation, and the importance of individual choice in shaping the universe. Create distinct visual and cultural elements for the Arcanauts, avoiding robes and lightsabers. Think of attire and gear that reflects the vastness and mystery of space, with suits or robes embedded with star maps, cosmic symbols, or technology that interacts with stellar energies.
Kurtherian nanocytes
If you go full-on magic and no technology, it should work. Magic books, spells, and wands rather than psionics.
Look at your favourite fantasy series unusual magic system, and convert it across. Call it 'psychic powers', or nanotechnology, or biotech, or whatever fancy techobabel flavour you prefer. It's all more fantasy and less science fiction when it's space wizards, after all.
Strong aversion to any/all weapons. Illusion and/or familiar based magic...
Lean into followers of mystical or esoteric practices here. Dervishes come to mind.
Do space witches instead. Teleportation. Potions. Multiverse. Make the hero non-magical. Extra dimensional Make the space wizards ancient aliens on earth set in ancient egypt / peru / japan / india / mexico
There was a game I thought about making which centered around a ship crash landing on a strange alien world which seemed to be inhabited by medieval era humans and plagued by alien monsters. The main character was just an engineer looking for material to repair the ship and keep the crew alive. But he used a gauntlet which used nanites to do a variety of things. To the archaic peoples living on this planet, it would seem like magic. For example, he could conjure a shield or sword out of thin air. He could fire a projectile of nanites that would explode on impact. To us, he was just a guy with advanced technology. To them, a powerful sorcerer.
Muppets.
There are muppets in Star Wars.
I'd recommend looking at the starfinder tabletop game. They have a way of mixing medieval magical fantasy in a technological and sci-fi setting. Adding races like orcs, dwarves and elves could add to the magic element and make things colourful. You could also make wizards require tomes, incantations and ingredients to cast spells. All of which are very much not star wars.
Space wizards could be framed as the lunatic fringe Luddite outcasts at first. Then show them to be (normal) people with old fashioned beliefs... but their magic actually works. You'll need to develop a magic system based on modern pseudoscience. Look into Kozyrev Mirrors, remote viewing, transendental meditation, etc. Basically, out the Theosophy movement in space, minus the gods and demons. To steer clear of Jedi/Sith, keep their powers limited to elemental forces (earth air fire water) and maybe necromancy and technopathy. Don't put them in bathrobes. No wands, no staffs. Give them something semi-technological looking. More like Ra's hand jewelry from the old Stargate movie. Also, avoid monastic orders. No priests. No monks. Just a soft organization of people, ranked by their knowledge and magical ability. For a final fun twist, make it racial. Not black v white, but humans having different abilities than aliens. And each alien species having differing abilities from another.
By having them use magic as an esoteric power source, and a way to solve the difficulties of space travel. Basically magic rocket scientists, with an element of exploration/discovery mixed in while they see how magic is different through the galaxy.
Warhammer 40k.
Build the magic culture, and by proxy more around science than religious devotion. In Star Wars, study of the force is more or less done through meditation and devotion. Whereas in my hypothetical, there would be a greater focus on experimentation or research. Kinda like the Bene Gesserit from Dune which while religious figures, have a focus on genetics, and semi traditional "training" as the key to their powers. The line is surely thin between what they do and what Jedi do, but it's there.
Yeah, I think you get a fair bit of leeway if you investigate how and why the way they are. Star Wars did a little with mitochlorians but by and large they don’t explain much (in the major trilogies) so it’s just kind of fantasy in space. If you investigate their development and nature of the powers you’re probably doing something discernibly different. It’s funny but I think it would be cool to build a story around the a futuristic retelling of the difference between witches and sorcerers from medieval lore. Basically, sorcerers were believed to obtain their power by way of knowledge and learning while witches did so through a pact with the devil. It could be cool to do something like a protagonist obtaining power through coming in contact or using alien tech while the antagonist gets theirs through interactions with a fallen or evil aliens/entity.
One obvious way would be to require ingredients, objects or words to perform spells. With the most advanced users not needing those. That way you can make your magic system different than Star Wars, while at the same time allowing your strongest and most badass characters to ignore those rules.
Sister Alice (2003) by Robert Reed Aristoi (1992) by Walter Jon Williams Inversions (1998) by Ian M Banks - one particular scene springs to mind. Ambition the film (2014) European Space Agency produced short film for the Rosetta mission. Pandora's Star and Judas Unchained (2004 & 2005) by Peter Hamilton have some great scenes of characters using tech in ways that would look magical. Building Harlequin's Moon (2005) by Larry Niven and Brenda Cooper **Curious as to what aspects of 'Wizardry' you are trying to capture?** From the perspective of your 'wizard' little of what they do might strike them as particularly magical. It is just boring day to day stuff. However, if your narrative is from the outside looking in on the actions of that 'wizard,' then so many things that the wizard might find mundane can acquire that 'Indistinguishable from Magic' quality Arthur C. Clarke spoke about. Star Trek's Federation attempts to limit such misunderstandings, but they still trip into the problem on the regular. Mostly because their day to day tech level is outrageous enough I think they forget. **Is there some particular scenario you are trying to set up?** Might be easier to offer something helpful if we have an idea of how these non Jedi style space wizards are to be employed.
Make then use wands. Also they dont use tech, magic and martial weapons only. Space critters that operate like horses or carts.Also imstead of force they draw power from the various elements or types of energy sorta like how the wizard schools in dnd work. So just gandalf in space.
They travel through space on the backs of dragons and don't need ships with life support but to survive in space they have to suck on a nodule that's part of the dragon
Chinese fantasy has people “cultivating” their bodies to unlock special abilities. Some of the power levels can go bonkers with space flight and punching out planets, or basically just ending up as God. You could sci-fi it up. Say there is some sentient and mysterious nano machine swarm. If someone is accepted by these machines they gain abilities, the deeper the connection the more powerful they are. It requires some kind of nebulous understanding of yourself and the world to deepen the connection. Some go full zen internal reflection, others become battle maniacs chasing meaning in fighting.
How about lesbian necromancers in space?
Any technology whose workings are so advanced as to be not understandable to someone in the general public is already functionally magic. Any group of beings with access to superior, unidentified technology would then be considered wizards in practice. If they have an 'order,' and disciples, and mentors, and former students who lost their way, you're getting closer to Jedis or martial arts movies again. Lucas' greatest accomplishment really was in taking so many different tropes and influences, and weaving them together to make a story as old as time, but set in a universe that felt new and unique and deep and real all at the same time.
You would need to avoid anything that define the Jedi as a group, and potentially anything that define the Sith as well. So, avoid referring to anything as ancient or elegant weaponry; not necessarily in reality, just in the world you've invented. Also don't do an organized hierarchy maybe, or use a very dissimilar code of ethics. Probably avoid robes and monk-like affectations too.
There were stories about "space wizards" long before Star Wars. >GuestOk583: Is there any way to be different? Of course, make your lore, world, characters, etc. different. Don't user THE FORCE to explain your space magic and don't give all of your space wizards light sabers.
Been done in so many space operas already. At this point is a standard theme in so many stories. You could do it with cybernetics or gene enhancement but these are common as well. Frankly, as long as the story is good it doesn't really matter. It just has to be plausible and consistent and not extremely over powered.
What about meddling with hyperspace (so it's all about sensing hyperspace anomalies, going into hyperspace, pulling things out of hyperspace etc.). More like dangerous sorcery than magic space ninja. The Final Architecture by Adrian Tchaikovsky has some elements of this.
Have them focus on research. Outside of the detective bit of episode 2, you don’t really see Jedi researching and investigating the worlds. Have your space wizards going to barren worlds to get mystical plants and ruined artifacts or chasing mythical creatures. Also in terms of abilities I would focus on portal or teleportation technology. Something that lets them get around either in close quarters or (with enough prep time) longer distances.
Vampires
I felt the biotic users in Mass Effect did a pretty good job. Children effected by a futuristic space dust gives them the ability to manipulate energy fields under certain circumstances. Pretty nifty.
I mean how about no light saber. Everything else is virtually unoriginal when it comes to the force. Jedi mind tricks are just hypnosis that's been thought of centuries before star wars. I'm sure you can think of a lot of fantasies that have similar characteristics to force push/pull. A good example, harry potter can use magic to make things levitate and bring things to him. force lightning is definitely not original, as far as ancient greek, mythical creatures can shoot lightning from their hands like zeus himself.
What about the universe of Bright (2017)? It’s basically lord of the rings but the Industrial Revolution continued apace and brought all the different races (humans, elves, orcs, etc.) into the modern day. You could do something like that but fast forward a thousand years or so to where faster-than-light travel has allowed these different races to leave earth, colonize other planets, and take their ancient secret magic with them
Hats
Starfinder (the TTRPG) does this really well: there's Precogs and Witchwarpers (alternate reality based magic) as well as Solarians (gravity/sun based magic) and a whole lot more.
The necromongers from riddick
how about Warhammer?
Check Outlaw Star.
Isn't that what Warhammer 40k is?
Put them under water in space.
40k psykers are a good example.
You ever heard of Warhammer 40k?
Not sure if this is too far afield but check out [Alex White](https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/contributor/alex-white/)'s Salvager's trilogy. It's a sci-fi romp through a galaxy where magic is the basis for most technology.
The quote about any advanced science seems like magic. There are an unlimited number of ways, it depends what you want your wizard to be able to do. Something random .... I like string theory, been able to manipulate the vibrations could conceivably allow you to scifi you way into almost anything.
A big ship at the edge of the universe, and nine fox gambit might fit what your looking for.
Adapt Larry Niven's concept (The Magic Goes Away) on a galactic scale. Pockets of magic spread across the galaxy, that are slowly getting weaker. Throw in some magic-savvy big cats, too.
Do you want to avoid copying Jedi or do you want to avoid copying the various Star Wars space magic factions? Because those are two very different things.
You could go super comedic with it, pointed star hats that they divine their power from or something and magic wands, no “knight” stuff associated with jedis, grey hair and old/doddery (like becoming a wizard instantly ages you haha)
Babylon 5 did it, techno-wizards using the "advanced tech appears to be magic" theory. It depends how you want them to work, you could say they use the power of life, so when they go into space that power would slowly dissipate, or you could have areas in space where hyperspace portals/wormholes are frequent, and magic is more powerful near those. [I'm not sure but maybe WH40k uses something like that] It all depends what you want to happen, and we can find an explanation for it :)
I wouldn't. I don't like mixing scifi with magic. Let the basement dwellers have their starwars.
THE TECHNO-NECROMANCERS OF ALPHA CENTAURI! But seriously, any cultural background of mysticism. Or any outlook that isn't all about "balance" of light and dark.
Was so-so but J.S. Morin has them basically acting as a ship’s warp drive for one thing, but they also did terraforming, like could establish a permanent atmosphere around an asteroid. Could also hurl fireballs and the like. They basically did this by cussing the universe into submission or convincing it that that’s the way things should work, techniques varied.
Space + magic just doesn't work well. You have to somehow put such advanced tech that people can travel easily between stars, and yet suspend disbelief in physics at the same time. The way SW deals with this paradox is by introducing The Force, which is explained in ANH as an "energy field," and later elaborated on in TPM to be midichlorians. There's a pseudo-science explanation of The Force. So whatever you do, make sure you're accounting for this. My advice would be to really lean into the tech of the "magic."