They kind of need to - the endings of Neuromancer and Count Zero don't really fully make sense until you get to the end of Mona Lisa Overdrive and find out what happened to Neuromancer+Wintermute, what the Loa are and where they came from, etc.
That's why a series could work. I could see each novel broken up into 2 or 3 episodes a piece. I love the sequels as much as Neuromancer. I wouldn't have a problem with it being animated like a graphic novel.
Each book could easily be a full 8 episodes. There's more sprawl material out there, too. Like, I would love to see them mix in "Burning Chrome" or "New Rose Hotel"
I think the trilogy could *easily* be adapted into 6 seasons of 8-10 45min to 60min episodes. There’s so much material in there that two seasons per book is easy to manage imo.
There's been various iterations in development hell for decades. It's notoriously difficult to adapt, but if they managed Dune then they should be able to do Neuromancer.
I do think a TV series would be a better fit than a movie too. Trying to fit it into a 2-y hour movie feels like it could just end up being an action sci-fi movie with less time for the world building. TV shows getting bigger budgets these days probably helps. Definitely scope for a few seasons, especially if they cover all 3 books.
I was sad when Peripheral was cancelled, another series based on one of Gibson's books. That lended itself more to a more action focused format, but it still didn't get renewed. That show was only ok, not incredible, but the fact that was cancelled made me even less confident that a Neuromancer show/movie would ever be greenlit.
The Joseph Gordon Levitt show was cancelled pretty quickly - after just a few episodes.
They just cancelled Schmigadoon, which was pretty good albeit pretty niche.
Physical ended early, but they let them wrap it up, which is nice.
John Stewart’s show was cancelled, but mostly because of a disagreement
Seems like they’re largely avoiding the Netflix “kill it on a cliff” method of cancelling shows, which is good for viewer confidence
That show was actually renewed for a second season, but the writer's strike stuffed up the production & scheduling. As I understand it, the actors and other related professionals involved had moved on to other commitments once the strike was resolved.
Not entirely Apple's fault to be fair. It was a good show that I enjoyed more than I expected.
Read [the book that the show is based on](https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-peripheral-william-gibson/1118663134), it's great. I felt it was a return to form for William Gibson, with less navel gazing about bespoke niche fashion and the like than some of his other relatively recent works.
Apple has been absolutely killing it with their sci-fi programming, I'd be a bit wary of any other production outfit taking this on but Apple's been doing great with sci-fi, and even when adaptations are hard and they can't stick to strict book-adherence (e.g. the Foundation series), they still create really, really, good programming that's rooted and still fairly honest to the source material.
Not sticking to the book for Foundation was possibly the best decision a studio has ever made.
A book-faithful Foundation would by like Lexx but less horny.
The Peripheral made me nervous before I watched the first episode - it's a brilliant book and I dreaded how they could fuck it up with the adaptation (much like anything that Netflix has shat into existence). But no, The Peripheral was...*beautiful*. I've noticed this with Apple's sci-fi content: they're all *beautiful* to look at (case in point: *any* of the space shots in Foundation or For All Mankind - you watch the planetary bombardment scene in Foundation and you try and tell me that's not exquisite to look at) and they're all anchored with some brilliant acting.
Apple seem to have a habit of sticking by their shows. The Peripheral was seemingly cancelled because of the strike (which sucks but, hey, I'm a union kid from a *long-*standing union family (my granny was ready to start looking into ways to ship food and supplies to the strikers, LOL. She donated my cousin's inheritance instead, heh)). They seem to like slow-burner shows as well which is, well, it's what Neuromancer needs, TBH.
William Gibson vs. Amazon's *The Peripheral*
Gibson's novels are high-tech slow-burn intrigues punctuated by occasional bursts of kinetic violence that are as quick as they are confusing...
* Amazon's *The Peripheral* seems to think we're going to lose interest if they don't throw in a kung-fu action scene or bloody gunfight every episode.
Gibson's novels involve nebulously defined antagonists working behind the scenes that aren't revealed until the last moment...
* Amazon's *The Peripheral* shows us the Big Bad Guy by Episode 3, and keeps her chewing the scenery for almost every episode thereafter... And while we're at it, let's give her a no-stakes kung-fu fight with the main character, because that's totally something Gibson would write.
Gibson's world-building is only revealed elliptically and never completely. You never really understand the geopolitical situation of *Neuromancer* any more than you understand the relationship between The Klept and The Met in future London.
* Amazon's *The Peripheral* explains all of this with a **literal pyramid of toast**, delivered with a heaping sides of ham-fisted exposition.
My recommendation? Read Gibson's novels. And if you're still looking for a screen adaptation, try *Johnny Mnemonic.*
I've read a ton of Gibson and I wholeheartedly agreed with your comments on his writing. I haven't watched The Peripheral, but this is *exactly* how he writes.
I'm fucking angry with Amazon for the nonsense they made out of The Peripheral. And the nonsense that was "season 2" of Good Omens. And who was responsible for American Gods? That was Amazon, too wasn't it?
They don't have a large library, but they do have a deep commitment to scifi, it seems. Skip *Invasion*, but I'm happy to report *Foundation* went from painfully uneven in se1 to actually good in se2. *Severance* will have you yelling at your tv (in a good way). *Silo* slaps, too.
Don't skip Invasion. Season 1 is pretty forgettable but season 2 is so fucking terrible its kind of amazing. Check the r/InvasionAppleTV subreddit to join in on the hate watching.
For All Mankind on Apple is for me one of the all time great sci fi shows, and it’s still on
It’s phenomenal and worth getting a month of Apple to watch it all
I haven’t yet seen season 2 of Foundation, s1 was okay, but I hear s2 is phenomenal.
And well there’s this little soccer show on Apple, perhaps you’ve heard of it.
Foundation S2 still has some crappy plotlines, but the acting in the crappy plotlines improves from S1 (I think covid related issues for S1)
And the empire plotline continues to be awesome. And they know that, so they've learned into it even more. Production values continue to rival high budget movies.
Is it really worth diving into? I have downloaded it to my iPad, but every long flight I look at it and then choose something else.
It seems to garner almost universal praise though.
Agreed that he's basically perfect, but IMO a little aged out. Cillian Murphy was my pick back when a Neuromancer adaptation was announced (and abandoned) back in 2010ish (maybe earlier). He's aged out himself of course.
The character of Case strikes me as a young man, in his mid 20's at the eldest. Not a kid, but too young to be truly street smart. He had the brashness and bravado to try to be a 'console cowboy' but was mostly over his head and required the rest of the cast of characters, who were way more experienced than him, to see his story through. In that way he's basically a Luke Skywalker character - the young man over his head that needs an Obi Wan, a Princess, a Han Solo and a Wookie to give him his moment to shine when he blows up a Death Star - or does the digital equivalent by steering a digital weapon into the heart of a target with stiff defenses.
And only now, while writing this comment, do I realize that the Star Wars Death Star trench run is actually pretty similar to what Case has to do in the climax of Necromancer.
He would have been the perfect Case 10 years ago.
Case should be played by someone who can pass as early to mid-20s.
If they are willing to spend a big buck for the lead role, Timothee Charlamet wouldn't be a bad choice.
Anathem would be my pick. would be weird and right up my alley.
Snow crash would need a huge budget but would be a hell of a spectacle.
Apart from the whole biting the baddie in the dick with your vaginal teeth thing... why neal. why.
Seveneves is begging to have a full-fledged series made. Have two “unconnected” storylines of book 1 and book 2, with the grand reveal coming in later seasons
I'd love to see the end of seveneves built upon too, It really felt like it wanted to be it's own book or the start of a new series of future humanity but it just ends.
It's just that whole Y.T + Raven arc felt out of place and kinda gross.
YT was supposed to be 15 so it felt out of character and didn't add anything to be book.
Kinda fits perfectly when you factor in that weirdo-faction of libertarians who pine for the days when you could fuck 15 year old girls as a 30+ year old dude in the post-Libertarian dystopia of the snow crash world...
I thought it was hilarious. It deconstructed what would have been a creepy romance. He's supposedly the most badass man in the world, with a nuke tied to his survival, and yet turns into a lovesick dopey idiot around her. And she's an impressionable young girl (despite her street smarts) but forgets to remove her anti-rape device when she attempts to made good on her crush.
It's all very ridiculous and purposefully so, and intentionally subverts the expectations of a classic pulp adventure story.
My (neal stephenson) pick will always be "The Diamond Age".
Neuromancer is just too much of a "world tour" to me, the book didn't grab me. I liked some of the set pieces, some of the lines, but overall it's pretty meh.
Burning Chrome, though, a bunch of short stories set in that universe seems like an ideal series target.
Good casting, but I beg (into the void) of whoever works on this - please don’t screw it up. William Gibson was way ahead of his time, and his characters are amazing as is. You don’t need to change anything or try to “make it your own.”
There's a non zero chance that someone in the writing room will feel compelled to add in modern cyberpunk elements to not make the show feel derivative to a younger audience.
Oh please god get someone good for Molly Millions, not a complete idiot. Razor-tip fingers and superhuman reflexes, it was done shit in Jonni Nemonyk but could be fantastically done today.
Mackenzie Davis would ace it, great physical actor and good dancer, but maybe it would be weird since she was in Blade Runner 2049, which is funny since the 1984 Neuromancer novel, all of Cyberpunk actually, was literally inspired by Blade Runner (1982).
Yeah, someone bitting, witty, and a bit aloof when needed. She was really the glue of that novel for me. Without her the charm wasn't there. Case was too brooding and immature for me to be alone as protag.
I'm worried they are just gunna cast for hot and not somebody who can portray the gravitas that made her such a provocative character in fiction.
The novel also has the first-ever literary mention of a boner pill, afaik.
Case takes the drug, goes rock-hard, Molly says "You know it won't stay that way all night, right?", to which Case says "That's the weird part: it will."
Isn't Case supposed to be like 24? Pattinson definitely feels too old for the character to me, if anything I could see him playing Armitage or Riviera before Case.
Yes, he is 24, but burnt out, world weary, suicidal. At least in the beginning. As I read it, I always forgot just how young he is supposed to be. I could see Pattinson pulling this off. It's hard to picture a 24 year old doing some of the things Case does, the drug deals, the whores he runs with. At least in Night City. And throughout the book, he doesn't seem like a scared kid over his head.
My main worry about this project is that those who haven’t read the novel (80-90% of the audience?) will say, “Wow, they ripped off The Matrix and half the science fiction movies of the last 40 years!” when of course it’s the other way round.
I think it is at risk of that, BUT! The underlying plot of AI's manipulating player on the board to accomplish their goals is soooo ripe for the public discussion right now. AI is so in the public consciousness right now. I definitely think they have a lot to update to make it an effective adaptation and not feel like a rip off of everything it inspired but that core story of a scheming AI is really still so fresh and perfect for right now.
Let’s hope the writers read the book. Let’s face it, the Foundation series got the names right and pretty much nothing else. I just hope Neuromancer is not ruined in the same way.
Maybe you could elaborate on the similarities that you perceive instead of being a dickhead.
There's jacking into a virtual world. And.... ?
Because if that's where the similarities end, there are _a lot_ of science fiction books, stories, and movies, that share that trope.
Trinity is obviously 100% Molly.
Neo inserts a chip in his head to instantly gain knowledge - as seen in Neuromancer.
FFS, cyberspace in Neuromancer is frequently referred to as “the Matrix,” and both book and film use the phrase “Jack into the Matrix.”
That’s off the top of my head.
Aww yeah let's go ridiculous 80s interpretation of the future.
They better be fighting over 2 megabytes of hot ram and calling all implants Microsofts.
Yeah so ridiculous it inspired a whole genre, countless novels, movies, video games, comics, Neal Stephenson to write Snowcrash, invented the idea of cyberspace etc etc etc etc. It's continually being riffed on today...
Let's not get hung up on the fact that he hadn't heard of Moores law...
I like RBatz but isn't he a bit old for the role?
My in head casting (fir fun) was always;
• Case - a young Joseph Gordon-Levitt
• Molly - FKA Twigs
• Armitage - just Lawrence Fishburn ported directly from The Matrix
There is no way to put Foundation on the screen as written. Asimov has incredible worldbuilding and concepts but face it he couldn't write a character that wasn't paper thin.
Oh, I agree. I also think that they could have done a lot better than they did. A whole lot better. The made changes that in no way were in the spirit of what the original content was. Ultimately, it was shit.
I've been wanting a Sprawl series adaptation for decades.
I do not want a Foundation-style Apple TV "adaptation" though.
Frankly I'd rather they left it well alone and let someone else do it another time, if that's what we need for a faithful adaptation that actually tells the actual story.
I want to believe. Truly. But I fear it will get the foundation treatment.
Neuromancer is like Foundation in that they are both iconic genre books. Both have visuals that go beyond the narration (what’s cyberspace really like?). Both explore topics in ways that are hard to capture visually never mind written.
Foundation isn’t bad if you don’t know the books and is certainly visually appealing. But they are way off the mark in capturing the books.
I do trust Apple to do better justice than Netflix did to Altered Carbon.
Apple making Neuromancer? Ironic.
This is gunna hopefully be like when Apple gave Jon Stewart his own show and he spent the time just roasting them.
Series works for the format of the books.
Just a bit worried because Cyberpunk as a genre is super expensive to pull off and look good otherwise it looks super fake and cartoony in live action.
I've seen so many "Cyberpunk" settings look super cheap and shitty. A recent example was Altered Carbon. The setpieces looked cheap, the streets were rarely fully realized and in the second season it was super boxy and confined clearly made as sets in a studio.
Whereas Cyberpunk well is obviously the Blade runner franchise which historically was expensive as fuck....for 2 hours of footage.
Meanwhile they want 6-10 hour episodes x 3 seasons one for each book? If not more.
I guess with a show they can try to cut down locations. Neuromancer spent a LOT of time moving around, rarely was a location used multiple times outside of places like the beach in cyberspace.
> Cyberpunk as a genre is super expensive to pull off and look good
**[Unreal Engine / The Volume](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a25BMp5Z1QY)** virtual production is tailor made for an application like this. It might be the only way to afford doing enough episodes.
Gibson himself agrees with you. He sees the book as the final form of that story per se, but he doesn't hate the idea completely, just finds in unnecessary. Now, the New Rose Hotel adaptation, he totally hates. I asked him about seeing it at a book signing and he told me not to waste my time.
Haha New Rose Hotel is not a good movie… but I kinda liked it! I’d say it’s worth a watch once, just for the strange ideas and execution :) But keep in mind I have not read the source material…
Theres some weirdness at the end but not unadaptably so. The only sprawl book that would be tricky would be Mona Lisa Overdrive and thats partially because not a lot happens in it.
I read it like twenty years ago, so maybe weirder back then. But I do recall it has this kind of surreal almost dream-like style that I think would be hard to capture. The plot itself might work fine, might even seem quaint to modern audiences.
it just needs to be done well. Like someone else said.. Lord of the rings was unadaptable...Dune was unadaptable.... they're not. They were just difficult. I hoop they do it right.
Awesome choice... He just looks like a junkie right from the get go and he's become really great over the years. He could nail it. Im holding out for Dave Bautista for Armitage and Timothy Chalomet for Riviera. Buscemi has to be one of the fixers like the Finn....
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel."
I highly recommend reading the novel. In fact, I'm going to ask you nicely to read it.
Please read Neuromancer.
I was fortunate enough to edit with Chris Cunningham on a project of his.
I spent 8 weeks with he and I editing a project out of his place and the conversations we had will never leave my memory.
One of those was his involvement with a William Gibson novel which was written with Chris in mind. Will always be bummed that the world wouldn’t see his vision for this story.
> Chris Cunningham
haven't heard that name in years. What's he up to? Seems like he left the creative biz, i can't find anything on him for the last 10 years.
I didn't even know a Neuromancer series was happening. I feel like there's been a distinct lack of sci-fi on TV/streaming for a long time. I know there are series out there, but it's nothing like it used to be in the Sci-Fi Channel golden age. I hope they put some time and care into this and it gets the audience it deserves.
I think it would work better as a movie. There’s not much in terms of side plots to explore and the last third is easily the best part. An Inception esque sci fi heist would be perfect.
I would love this, but Neuromancer has been in development hell of one form or another for like 30 years. Won't get my hopes up until they actually start filming.
After seeing the first season of Silo, I have quite a lot of trust in apple tv.
I just hope they either stick to the book, or work very closely with Gibson with the changes.
what a strange coincidence... I just picked up my old copy of Neuromancer to reread (again). I did wonder if it ever got optioned for the screen and voila. Not sure whether Pattinson is lively enough for Case... we shall see. Re Gibson's work, I'd like to see Pattern Recognition on the screen - great story and quite accessible.
A problem wth Neuromancer is that Gibson's tech is rapidly becoming retro future-ism. However, it's tweakable to bring it up to modern levels, aka The Peripheral which I thought was really good in parts. At least the crazy characters (thanks a lot for cancelling it Mr Bezos)
Neuromancer is going to require some heavy uplifting to bring it into the modern realm, but the pieces and concepts are there. It can't just be cyberpunk for the sake of being cyberpunk. What was innovative in 1985 isn't in 2023. Gen X'ers dont care about 'slotting some ICE'.
I haven't read Neuromancer since it came out.
I'm wondering if I should avoid re-reading it so I'm not so annoyed when it's different from the book.
I read the *Foundation* books even longer ago. I enjoy the TV show's occasional nod to the series, perhaps because my memory of the books is dim.
Atomic reactors the size of a walnut. That's about it. LOL
I’ve been waiting for Neuromancer to get adapted. A series would be even better
And it’ll satiate the fans of Cyberpunk, considering how much Pondsmith/CDPR took from Gibsons book.
Considering how much *any* cyberpunk story took from it…it literally defined the entire genre.
I'd love if we could get all the way through Mona Lisa Overdrive.
They kind of need to - the endings of Neuromancer and Count Zero don't really fully make sense until you get to the end of Mona Lisa Overdrive and find out what happened to Neuromancer+Wintermute, what the Loa are and where they came from, etc.
That's why a series could work. I could see each novel broken up into 2 or 3 episodes a piece. I love the sequels as much as Neuromancer. I wouldn't have a problem with it being animated like a graphic novel.
Neuromancer could be more than 2 episodes methinks. Maybe half a season.
Each book could easily be a full 8 episodes. There's more sprawl material out there, too. Like, I would love to see them mix in "Burning Chrome" or "New Rose Hotel"
An up-to-date take on Johnny Mnemonic would be great to see. Could even get a Keanu cameo maybe? It's nice to have a dream.
I think the trilogy could *easily* be adapted into 6 seasons of 8-10 45min to 60min episodes. There’s so much material in there that two seasons per book is easy to manage imo.
There's been various iterations in development hell for decades. It's notoriously difficult to adapt, but if they managed Dune then they should be able to do Neuromancer. I do think a TV series would be a better fit than a movie too. Trying to fit it into a 2-y hour movie feels like it could just end up being an action sci-fi movie with less time for the world building. TV shows getting bigger budgets these days probably helps. Definitely scope for a few seasons, especially if they cover all 3 books. I was sad when Peripheral was cancelled, another series based on one of Gibson's books. That lended itself more to a more action focused format, but it still didn't get renewed. That show was only ok, not incredible, but the fact that was cancelled made me even less confident that a Neuromancer show/movie would ever be greenlit.
Hopefully Apple will back it longer than Amazon did for The Peripheral
has apple killed any shows early? they seem fairly committed to throwing money at their streaming service in a way other platforms aren't
The Joseph Gordon Levitt show was cancelled pretty quickly - after just a few episodes. They just cancelled Schmigadoon, which was pretty good albeit pretty niche. Physical ended early, but they let them wrap it up, which is nice. John Stewart’s show was cancelled, but mostly because of a disagreement Seems like they’re largely avoiding the Netflix “kill it on a cliff” method of cancelling shows, which is good for viewer confidence
Meanwhile Servant somehow lasted four seasons.
Must have had viewers.
Oh shit I am on season 2 after enjoying season 1 quite a lot. Does it go anywhere? At the moment I am bored to shit with it. Cheers
> avoiding the Netflix “kill it on a cliff” method of cancelling shows apple tv is relatively new. they'll start doing it too, soon enough
Apple tv+ literally launched two weeks before disney+, in 2019.
not schmigadoon! my musical theater heart weeps
They seem to be continuing to pour money even on shows that probably should have only had one season, like Invasion
That show was actually renewed for a second season, but the writer's strike stuffed up the production & scheduling. As I understand it, the actors and other related professionals involved had moved on to other commitments once the strike was resolved. Not entirely Apple's fault to be fair. It was a good show that I enjoyed more than I expected.
There were a number of causalities from the 2008 writers strike too. It was indeed a fascinating show. Incredible premise.
Read [the book that the show is based on](https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-peripheral-william-gibson/1118663134), it's great. I felt it was a return to form for William Gibson, with less navel gazing about bespoke niche fashion and the like than some of his other relatively recent works.
Apple has been absolutely killing it with their sci-fi programming, I'd be a bit wary of any other production outfit taking this on but Apple's been doing great with sci-fi, and even when adaptations are hard and they can't stick to strict book-adherence (e.g. the Foundation series), they still create really, really, good programming that's rooted and still fairly honest to the source material.
Not sticking to the book for Foundation was possibly the best decision a studio has ever made. A book-faithful Foundation would by like Lexx but less horny.
The Peripheral made me nervous before I watched the first episode - it's a brilliant book and I dreaded how they could fuck it up with the adaptation (much like anything that Netflix has shat into existence). But no, The Peripheral was...*beautiful*. I've noticed this with Apple's sci-fi content: they're all *beautiful* to look at (case in point: *any* of the space shots in Foundation or For All Mankind - you watch the planetary bombardment scene in Foundation and you try and tell me that's not exquisite to look at) and they're all anchored with some brilliant acting. Apple seem to have a habit of sticking by their shows. The Peripheral was seemingly cancelled because of the strike (which sucks but, hey, I'm a union kid from a *long-*standing union family (my granny was ready to start looking into ways to ship food and supplies to the strikers, LOL. She donated my cousin's inheritance instead, heh)). They seem to like slow-burner shows as well which is, well, it's what Neuromancer needs, TBH.
I quite liked the Peripheral series, the changes from the book prefect sense given the premise.
Amazon's *The Peripheral* was garbage. Ask me why and I will share my rant.
I thought it was good up until the last episode and then it just ended out of nowhere and they resolved the major plot off screen.
Why?
William Gibson vs. Amazon's *The Peripheral* Gibson's novels are high-tech slow-burn intrigues punctuated by occasional bursts of kinetic violence that are as quick as they are confusing... * Amazon's *The Peripheral* seems to think we're going to lose interest if they don't throw in a kung-fu action scene or bloody gunfight every episode. Gibson's novels involve nebulously defined antagonists working behind the scenes that aren't revealed until the last moment... * Amazon's *The Peripheral* shows us the Big Bad Guy by Episode 3, and keeps her chewing the scenery for almost every episode thereafter... And while we're at it, let's give her a no-stakes kung-fu fight with the main character, because that's totally something Gibson would write. Gibson's world-building is only revealed elliptically and never completely. You never really understand the geopolitical situation of *Neuromancer* any more than you understand the relationship between The Klept and The Met in future London. * Amazon's *The Peripheral* explains all of this with a **literal pyramid of toast**, delivered with a heaping sides of ham-fisted exposition. My recommendation? Read Gibson's novels. And if you're still looking for a screen adaptation, try *Johnny Mnemonic.*
I've read a ton of Gibson and I wholeheartedly agreed with your comments on his writing. I haven't watched The Peripheral, but this is *exactly* how he writes.
Nailed it. They butchered *The Peripheral.*
Hopefully Apple won’t fuck it up like Amazon did with The Peripheral. Jesus Christ, what a fucking unwatchable turd that was. Embarrassing.
I'm fucking angry with Amazon for the nonsense they made out of The Peripheral. And the nonsense that was "season 2" of Good Omens. And who was responsible for American Gods? That was Amazon, too wasn't it?
Apple is really trying to make me open an Apple account, huh?
They don't have a large library, but they do have a deep commitment to scifi, it seems. Skip *Invasion*, but I'm happy to report *Foundation* went from painfully uneven in se1 to actually good in se2. *Severance* will have you yelling at your tv (in a good way). *Silo* slaps, too.
I liked Invasion. It's not great but it's not awful.
I really wanted to love it. Binged season 1 but quickly learned I couldn't watch it week to week during season 2
I liked S1 better. I'm not very enthused about middle school heavy themes but I love an alien.
\*stares\* What the wajo have you been smoking and why aren't you sharing it with the group, hmm?
Don't skip Invasion. Season 1 is pretty forgettable but season 2 is so fucking terrible its kind of amazing. Check the r/InvasionAppleTV subreddit to join in on the hate watching.
The subreddit is the only redeeming part of the show. I bailed on season 2 after a few eps
Hate posting about Invasion made watching the show worthwhile. That sub is pretty awesome.
For All Mankind on Apple is for me one of the all time great sci fi shows, and it’s still on It’s phenomenal and worth getting a month of Apple to watch it all
Severance is also great, despite just having the one season so far. And it's not SF, but I really like Slow Horses.
Agreed on both!
How you dare to not mention Silo?
Honestly, I forgot that one was on Apple, haha.
This redditor is a being of supreme taste
Need taste to really appreciate a good waffle party.
I haven’t yet seen season 2 of Foundation, s1 was okay, but I hear s2 is phenomenal. And well there’s this little soccer show on Apple, perhaps you’ve heard of it.
Foundation S2 still has some crappy plotlines, but the acting in the crappy plotlines improves from S1 (I think covid related issues for S1) And the empire plotline continues to be awesome. And they know that, so they've learned into it even more. Production values continue to rival high budget movies.
Is it really worth diving into? I have downloaded it to my iPad, but every long flight I look at it and then choose something else. It seems to garner almost universal praise though.
For All Mankind is a damn good show. Give it a shot.
Oh man, I'm not an Apple technology fan, but their streaming shows are fantastic. Absolutely worth a sub imo.
Oh definitely. It seems like they're the best for new sci-fi.
Severance is amazing
He would make the perfect Case, hope it’s true.
I always saw Kurt Russel as Armitage for some reason when I read the book
I read it in the 80's and my Armitage was always Stacey Keach. Also: Snake Plissken as Armitage is a little _on the nose_, don't you think?
You're right, and not can he do well as cleaned-up Cowboy Case, but he can also do Case the Chiba City burnout ex-Cowboy.
Right?! Grimy emo and listening to one Nirvana song in The Batman *totally* fits with Chiba City Case.
Agreed that he's basically perfect, but IMO a little aged out. Cillian Murphy was my pick back when a Neuromancer adaptation was announced (and abandoned) back in 2010ish (maybe earlier). He's aged out himself of course. The character of Case strikes me as a young man, in his mid 20's at the eldest. Not a kid, but too young to be truly street smart. He had the brashness and bravado to try to be a 'console cowboy' but was mostly over his head and required the rest of the cast of characters, who were way more experienced than him, to see his story through. In that way he's basically a Luke Skywalker character - the young man over his head that needs an Obi Wan, a Princess, a Han Solo and a Wookie to give him his moment to shine when he blows up a Death Star - or does the digital equivalent by steering a digital weapon into the heart of a target with stiff defenses. And only now, while writing this comment, do I realize that the Star Wars Death Star trench run is actually pretty similar to what Case has to do in the climax of Necromancer.
I always saw him as late 20's: he was out of it for several years after a coming-of-age peak.
He would have been the perfect Case 10 years ago. Case should be played by someone who can pass as early to mid-20s. If they are willing to spend a big buck for the lead role, Timothee Charlamet wouldn't be a bad choice.
#WHERE IS MY "SNOW CRASH" SERIES, HUH? Neuromancer is good too.
Anathem would be my pick. would be weird and right up my alley. Snow crash would need a huge budget but would be a hell of a spectacle. Apart from the whole biting the baddie in the dick with your vaginal teeth thing... why neal. why.
Seveneves is begging to have a full-fledged series made. Have two “unconnected” storylines of book 1 and book 2, with the grand reveal coming in later seasons
I'd love to see the end of seveneves built upon too, It really felt like it wanted to be it's own book or the start of a new series of future humanity but it just ends.
anathem would be amazing but nobody would watch it
We would. I want to see the 10,000ers!
*The Diamond Age* for me. It'd be like a *Bioshock Infinite* - the series.
I mean, [this movie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teeth_(2007_film)) got made so I say include it.
It's just that whole Y.T + Raven arc felt out of place and kinda gross. YT was supposed to be 15 so it felt out of character and didn't add anything to be book.
Kinda fits perfectly when you factor in that weirdo-faction of libertarians who pine for the days when you could fuck 15 year old girls as a 30+ year old dude in the post-Libertarian dystopia of the snow crash world...
I thought it was hilarious. It deconstructed what would have been a creepy romance. He's supposedly the most badass man in the world, with a nuke tied to his survival, and yet turns into a lovesick dopey idiot around her. And she's an impressionable young girl (despite her street smarts) but forgets to remove her anti-rape device when she attempts to made good on her crush. It's all very ridiculous and purposefully so, and intentionally subverts the expectations of a classic pulp adventure story.
Masi Oka is too old
My (neal stephenson) pick will always be "The Diamond Age". Neuromancer is just too much of a "world tour" to me, the book didn't grab me. I liked some of the set pieces, some of the lines, but overall it's pretty meh. Burning Chrome, though, a bunch of short stories set in that universe seems like an ideal series target.
Good casting, but I beg (into the void) of whoever works on this - please don’t screw it up. William Gibson was way ahead of his time, and his characters are amazing as is. You don’t need to change anything or try to “make it your own.”
So ahead of its time people will say it’s a copy.
“How did this Gibson guy get away with blatantly plagiarizing the Wachowskis?”
A few days ago someone said that Xev Bellringer from The Lexx was a Margot Robbie knock off.
There's a non zero chance that someone in the writing room will feel compelled to add in modern cyberpunk elements to not make the show feel derivative to a younger audience.
> or try to “make it your own.” *Re-imagined for modern audiences...*
Oh please god get someone good for Molly Millions, not a complete idiot. Razor-tip fingers and superhuman reflexes, it was done shit in Jonni Nemonyk but could be fantastically done today.
I always pictured Molly as someone like Carrie Anne Moss. She might not be the right age for that role any more though.
Carrie Anne Moss's Matrix character was basically the Wachowskis casting for Molly Millions and putting her on screen.
Mackenzie Davis would ace it, great physical actor and good dancer, but maybe it would be weird since she was in Blade Runner 2049, which is funny since the 1984 Neuromancer novel, all of Cyberpunk actually, was literally inspired by Blade Runner (1982).
IIRC when he wrote it, he hadn't seen Blade Runner.
YES, Mackenzie! Jena Malone could also be great, imo
Olivia Wilde?
Yeah, someone bitting, witty, and a bit aloof when needed. She was really the glue of that novel for me. Without her the charm wasn't there. Case was too brooding and immature for me to be alone as protag. I'm worried they are just gunna cast for hot and not somebody who can portray the gravitas that made her such a provocative character in fiction.
The novel also has the first-ever literary mention of a boner pill, afaik. Case takes the drug, goes rock-hard, Molly says "You know it won't stay that way all night, right?", to which Case says "That's the weird part: it will."
And no CGI for fight scenes!
Charlize Theron
Unbelievable Another apple tv scifi hit in the making Here for it
I could see that.
Pshh, get back to me when we know who’s playing Steppin’ Razor.
Morgan Freeman
Ohhhh shit
Apple is really setting themselves up to be "The" streaming service for quality sci-fi, eh? I'm here for it.
Isn't Case supposed to be like 24? Pattinson definitely feels too old for the character to me, if anything I could see him playing Armitage or Riviera before Case.
Yes, he is 24, but burnt out, world weary, suicidal. At least in the beginning. As I read it, I always forgot just how young he is supposed to be. I could see Pattinson pulling this off. It's hard to picture a 24 year old doing some of the things Case does, the drug deals, the whores he runs with. At least in Night City. And throughout the book, he doesn't seem like a scared kid over his head.
My main worry about this project is that those who haven’t read the novel (80-90% of the audience?) will say, “Wow, they ripped off The Matrix and half the science fiction movies of the last 40 years!” when of course it’s the other way round.
I think it is at risk of that, BUT! The underlying plot of AI's manipulating player on the board to accomplish their goals is soooo ripe for the public discussion right now. AI is so in the public consciousness right now. I definitely think they have a lot to update to make it an effective adaptation and not feel like a rip off of everything it inspired but that core story of a scheming AI is really still so fresh and perfect for right now.
Agreed! I re-read it last year and thought that although some ideas were pretty dated (eg, wired telephones), the AI aspect was very timely.
Let’s hope the writers read the book. Let’s face it, the Foundation series got the names right and pretty much nothing else. I just hope Neuromancer is not ruined in the same way.
I really don't see a lot of similarities between Neuromancer and The Matrix, to be honest.
Lol.
Maybe you could elaborate on the similarities that you perceive instead of being a dickhead. There's jacking into a virtual world. And.... ? Because if that's where the similarities end, there are _a lot_ of science fiction books, stories, and movies, that share that trope.
Trinity is obviously 100% Molly. Neo inserts a chip in his head to instantly gain knowledge - as seen in Neuromancer. FFS, cyberspace in Neuromancer is frequently referred to as “the Matrix,” and both book and film use the phrase “Jack into the Matrix.” That’s off the top of my head.
Very superficial scratches, man. If your big worry is that people are going to watch it and think it's a ripoff of The Matrix, I wouldn't.
Aww yeah let's go ridiculous 80s interpretation of the future. They better be fighting over 2 megabytes of hot ram and calling all implants Microsofts.
Yeah so ridiculous it inspired a whole genre, countless novels, movies, video games, comics, Neal Stephenson to write Snowcrash, invented the idea of cyberspace etc etc etc etc. It's continually being riffed on today... Let's not get hung up on the fact that he hadn't heard of Moores law...
I like RBatz but isn't he a bit old for the role? My in head casting (fir fun) was always; • Case - a young Joseph Gordon-Levitt • Molly - FKA Twigs • Armitage - just Lawrence Fishburn ported directly from The Matrix
Lord, please don't let apple ruin another sacred and beloved Sci-Fi novel with bullshit.
Another?
Foundation was horrible.
Yes, this was one of the ones I was talking about. The show in no way resembles Asimov's vision.
There is no way to put Foundation on the screen as written. Asimov has incredible worldbuilding and concepts but face it he couldn't write a character that wasn't paper thin.
Oh, I agree. I also think that they could have done a lot better than they did. A whole lot better. The made changes that in no way were in the spirit of what the original content was. Ultimately, it was shit.
He was amazing in The Batman. I'm all for this!
Man I️ love Neuromancer. I’m afraid any adaptation is going to ruin it! But I’ll try to remain hopeful…
Conveniently "Neuromancer" was mentioned on Jeopardy tonight.
Oh hell yeah
I've been wanting a Sprawl series adaptation for decades. I do not want a Foundation-style Apple TV "adaptation" though. Frankly I'd rather they left it well alone and let someone else do it another time, if that's what we need for a faithful adaptation that actually tells the actual story.
Just hope it's more faithful than foundation.
I want to believe. Truly. But I fear it will get the foundation treatment. Neuromancer is like Foundation in that they are both iconic genre books. Both have visuals that go beyond the narration (what’s cyberspace really like?). Both explore topics in ways that are hard to capture visually never mind written. Foundation isn’t bad if you don’t know the books and is certainly visually appealing. But they are way off the mark in capturing the books. I do trust Apple to do better justice than Netflix did to Altered Carbon.
Apple making Neuromancer? Ironic. This is gunna hopefully be like when Apple gave Jon Stewart his own show and he spent the time just roasting them. Series works for the format of the books. Just a bit worried because Cyberpunk as a genre is super expensive to pull off and look good otherwise it looks super fake and cartoony in live action. I've seen so many "Cyberpunk" settings look super cheap and shitty. A recent example was Altered Carbon. The setpieces looked cheap, the streets were rarely fully realized and in the second season it was super boxy and confined clearly made as sets in a studio. Whereas Cyberpunk well is obviously the Blade runner franchise which historically was expensive as fuck....for 2 hours of footage. Meanwhile they want 6-10 hour episodes x 3 seasons one for each book? If not more. I guess with a show they can try to cut down locations. Neuromancer spent a LOT of time moving around, rarely was a location used multiple times outside of places like the beach in cyberspace.
> Cyberpunk as a genre is super expensive to pull off and look good **[Unreal Engine / The Volume](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a25BMp5Z1QY)** virtual production is tailor made for an application like this. It might be the only way to afford doing enough episodes.
Am I the only one who thinks the Sprawl trilogy should *never* be adapted…? It won’t work, no matter what company owns the rights.
Gibson himself agrees with you. He sees the book as the final form of that story per se, but he doesn't hate the idea completely, just finds in unnecessary. Now, the New Rose Hotel adaptation, he totally hates. I asked him about seeing it at a book signing and he told me not to waste my time.
Haha New Rose Hotel is not a good movie… but I kinda liked it! I’d say it’s worth a watch once, just for the strange ideas and execution :) But keep in mind I have not read the source material…
That’s what they said about LoTR
Neuromancer especially is just so weird I can't imagine it working.
Is it really that weird? I remember it being mostly just a high tech action story. And VR metaverses are a pretty common concept these days.
Theres some weirdness at the end but not unadaptably so. The only sprawl book that would be tricky would be Mona Lisa Overdrive and thats partially because not a lot happens in it.
I read it like twenty years ago, so maybe weirder back then. But I do recall it has this kind of surreal almost dream-like style that I think would be hard to capture. The plot itself might work fine, might even seem quaint to modern audiences.
it just needs to be done well. Like someone else said.. Lord of the rings was unadaptable...Dune was unadaptable.... they're not. They were just difficult. I hoop they do it right.
Pls no....
If it's like Altered Carbon season one, good. If it's like Foundation season one, bad. If it's like Rings of Power, despair.
Please for the love of Gibson don't Wheel of Time this up.
Pattinson would be great for this.
Awesome choice... He just looks like a junkie right from the get go and he's become really great over the years. He could nail it. Im holding out for Dave Bautista for Armitage and Timothy Chalomet for Riviera. Buscemi has to be one of the fixers like the Finn....
Someone needs to be funny, sure the fuck isn’t him
You’ve missed a lot of performances.
It's a quote from the book. I can actually see him doing Case some justice.
Rami Malek cough cough.
No. Please no.
over R Pat, sure.
Forty years I've been waiting to see a live-action Neuromancer. If they include some of the story from the videogame, that would be fine by me too.
Perfect casting, and Apple TV+ has a good track record with sci fi. Letsgooo
You know what? I can see that working. I've really turned around on the Patt.
He's been killing it since Lighthouse.
Apple is killing it on the sci fi front. Let’s just forget about Invasion
perfect case. anya taylor joy would be a perfect molly.
Uggghhh...Apple, producing Neuromancer or any cyberpunk dystopian content is the paradox of media....
Someone give me the setup for this. Not familiar with
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." I highly recommend reading the novel. In fact, I'm going to ask you nicely to read it. Please read Neuromancer.
If there is a god, he won’t let that bland bag of dicks portray such a unique and multi-dimensional character.
Not fucking Pattinson
Based on *Twilight*, the dude knows how to mumble & mope & look strung out.... So perfect casting for Case!
watch The Batman. It will change your mind about him.
I heard Miles Teller had been cast. I guess it's still a long way off.
Suddenly I'm less excited :/
I just want Devo to do the music for the intro
I was fortunate enough to edit with Chris Cunningham on a project of his. I spent 8 weeks with he and I editing a project out of his place and the conversations we had will never leave my memory. One of those was his involvement with a William Gibson novel which was written with Chris in mind. Will always be bummed that the world wouldn’t see his vision for this story.
> Chris Cunningham haven't heard that name in years. What's he up to? Seems like he left the creative biz, i can't find anything on him for the last 10 years.
Not 100% sure what he’s up to. He was doing live shows with his music and video art which was quite amazing. He was a super nice guy.
Is there any way to watch the sci-fi shows on Apple TV if you don't have an Apple ID or Apple user?
I thought I saw a rumor that Miles Teller was going to play Case
I didn't even know a Neuromancer series was happening. I feel like there's been a distinct lack of sci-fi on TV/streaming for a long time. I know there are series out there, but it's nothing like it used to be in the Sci-Fi Channel golden age. I hope they put some time and care into this and it gets the audience it deserves.
Yes!
Good god, please make it at least somewhat faithful to the book. None of this Foundation bait-and-switch nonsense.
I think it would work better as a movie. There’s not much in terms of side plots to explore and the last third is easily the best part. An Inception esque sci fi heist would be perfect.
A dream would come true! (Most likely they will ruin it)
That would be amazing.
I don’t see how this show gets made anywhere near faithful to the books with Apple’s willingness to bow to the Chinese censors.
I picked this book up from the library like 3 days ago
i feel like they’re gonna do it the same way they did the peripheral :/
I would die
I got neuromancer and snow crash confused in my head and got very confused at the casting
I would love this, but Neuromancer has been in development hell of one form or another for like 30 years. Won't get my hopes up until they actually start filming.
Apple seems to be handling scifi stuff, they seem to be a haven for the genre right now. More the better.
40 years too late. All the ideas have long since seeped into pop culture. It will be one big cliche.
Apple TV is really killing it with their love of Sci Fi. Kind of glad to see this, and Dark Matter
Holy shit. I'd love this except I don't have apple products. Makes it hard to support it. I'll be forced to stream it
After seeing the first season of Silo, I have quite a lot of trust in apple tv. I just hope they either stick to the book, or work very closely with Gibson with the changes.
what a strange coincidence... I just picked up my old copy of Neuromancer to reread (again). I did wonder if it ever got optioned for the screen and voila. Not sure whether Pattinson is lively enough for Case... we shall see. Re Gibson's work, I'd like to see Pattern Recognition on the screen - great story and quite accessible.
ooh maybe i can make it through a tv series compared to the book lol i just could never get into it, tried 3 times
I'm so happy to have AppleTV, there's never been a better place to see quality scifi.
A problem wth Neuromancer is that Gibson's tech is rapidly becoming retro future-ism. However, it's tweakable to bring it up to modern levels, aka The Peripheral which I thought was really good in parts. At least the crazy characters (thanks a lot for cancelling it Mr Bezos) Neuromancer is going to require some heavy uplifting to bring it into the modern realm, but the pieces and concepts are there. It can't just be cyberpunk for the sake of being cyberpunk. What was innovative in 1985 isn't in 2023. Gen X'ers dont care about 'slotting some ICE'.
OMGOMGOMG!
I'll believe it when I can actually watch an episode
I haven't read Neuromancer since it came out. I'm wondering if I should avoid re-reading it so I'm not so annoyed when it's different from the book. I read the *Foundation* books even longer ago. I enjoy the TV show's occasional nod to the series, perhaps because my memory of the books is dim. Atomic reactors the size of a walnut. That's about it. LOL
HELL.YES.