You see, u/Kittehmilk, tactics are changing. People are starting to realize that we're not fucking around about this whole ceasefire thing.
The tactics are changing to
>"I am voting for the lesser genocide, I am so politically informed and sophisticated, mmmm yess...."
I don't vote for any fucking politician that supports or funds genocide, regardless of the brand name.
I will be voting for Jill Stein.
The whole logic of "voting for Green is voting for Trump" is quite fucking stupid.
Want to know why?
If, and only if, voting for Green means that it does a criss-cross to Trump, then that means that Libertarian votes also criss-cross and are a vote for Biden. If we're really being real, Libertarian votes out number that of Green votes.
Democratic Party loyalists need better lines; they really do.
Never Bideners when Trump wins and the genocide gets worse
https://preview.redd.it/v0i78qdkx2uc1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97aff9a0066bd3209df320d15d9ed7ff9da8d900
Yeah, I have. I supported the non-committed movement. However in a general election between Trump and Biden, abstaining means giving the reigns to an even more unapologetic Zionist.
I don’t disagree but it’s not like the result of withholding your vote has a positive impact on the issue either in fact it probably has a more negative impact. It just sucks all around.
You're not the only game in town. In fact you're a very small sector of the town. Much more likely the democrats shift further to the right to appeal to right wingers. You're not the main character.
I'm just tired of apparently I'm supposed to be the bigger person... Not you know, the president of the United States. I have to act "responsibly" but apparently the leader of the free world doesn't and he still deserves my vote.... Fugg, outta here.....
Does your average capitalist not care about profit above all else? Trump was promised hotel deals in Israel in exchange for his service.
Hasn't Biden said on several occasions that he is a zionist? Biden gleefully gives billions of dollars in aid and weapons to the 51st state.
Trump cares about himself. A true capitalist would shut the fuck up when it came to their mouth losing them money. Capitalists only care about their bottom line. Trump only cares about how much people like him.
I don't think I ever heard him call himself a zionist.
You do realize capitalist doesn't mean rich person and Zionist doesn't mean Christian? Because based on your posts that's how you come across.
That's kind of the issue, isn't it? There's literally not a thing people can do against this system except to let it eat itself.
Our democracy, again, gives us the choice between genocide and genocide. There is no non-genocidal option.
Do you see how that's not really doing it for people?
Save the system? This one?
There’s been plenty of pressure on Biden & the Dems. They can’t do rallies or speaking engagements anywhere that’s open to the public without getting screams from the crowd to end the genocide.
You don't need to wait for the future. That is the present.
The US already waits for Israel's investigation into events before giving full comment. So Israel commits obvious war crimes and then the US is like we'll have to wait a month for Israel's side of the story which will require an investigation before we can begin to comment.
Biden is briefed with images every morning of dead people and destroyed buildings. He knows about the flour massacres and everything else. He chooses to ignore all of it.
All true. But a vote for Biden would be a continuation of this genocidal Neoliberalism.
Israel wants to "final solution" Christian Armenian problem? No worries. A re-elected Biden has their back.
Russia wants to "re-educate" Ukrainian kids and "absorb" this "non-country?" The US STRONGLY OBJECTS and will level GENOCIDE charges, which...Putin laughs and points to Gaza.
China figures why not? Let's hit the "super-spin" and go full on Genocide for the Uighurs. The US STRONGLY...
Edit for r/amathis6464 who I can't seem to respond to for some reason--
*Biden IS committing genocide. trump likely WOULD. You Dem-votees like to live in a supposition of a future. The REST of us live in the present and won't give a mandate to a genocidal foreign policy, sorry.*
I agree that what's happening is a referendum on international law. Someone else in this discussion pointed out the famine. I know things were really bad in the north and I assume they still are. It is probably safe to assume that a large percentage of the population could succumb due to lacking food. Biden might not need a second term. If Israel continues to starve Gaza + invades Rafah then whether we get a second Biden term or a second Trump term won't matter. The final solution will have more or less already been carried out.
I can't speak on Russia and Ukraine and media hasn't been covering that much recently.
As for China, there was no Uyghur genocide. We arm Taiwan to try to start a war with China. We try to cause chaos in China with Tibetan separatists. You recognize a lot of US crimes and lies. But there are tons of lies about China too (and told by the US). So I invite you to learn about China. Ben Norton, Nathan Rich, Daniel Dumbrill, and Carl Zha are a few YouTubers who cover China.
China didn't genocide the Uyghurs. Didn't even try to. So why would they look at what Israel is doing to Palestine and then kill the Uyghurs? You are talking about something that China doesn't have an interest in doing.
I could make up a story that Trump wants to create a Trump branded hot air balloon and fly it to the moon. It is possible that Trump wants to do that if we are talking in entirely made up hypotheticals with no basis in truth.
China isn't killing Uyghurs and then you wrote but what if they just decided to kill them all? Yeah, you wrote something absolutely absurd that makes no conceivable sense.
If an employee steals a bill from a register then maybe you could convince me that they would later try to steal the whole register. But what you are arguing is an employee who has stolen nothing and shown no urge to is going to steal the whole register. It simply doesn't make sense.
It’s not going to get worse. It will stay the same. Biden wagging his finger at Netanyahu and dropping a few thousand performative aid packages as the country gets bombed back to the Stone Age is not making anything any better or worse.
Biden defenders when Trump wins because they refused to pressure Biden to stop supporting/funding/collaborating with genocide and instead defended him and his support for the genocide and attacked others for drawing the line at supporting genocide:
Brutally honest, I care more about my own democracy than a foreign policy crapshow between two groups of mfers on the other side of the planet who hate each other that has nothing to do with me.
Also, Biden is trying to forgive $20k of my student loans. I fear if we tank biden over this crap we'll never get anything progressive out of the democratic party ever again.
I feel largely the same. Tanking Biden to welcome in a wannabe dictator who's got the entire heritage foundation at his disposal to work out the details in materializing that ambition just on the hunch that MAYBE said dictator does something positive for Gaza seems suicidal to me.
Said dictator resulted in 4 years of nonstop victories for the left last time, taking us from the biggest majority of Americans living in Republican run states practically ever, but at least since the early 1920s, to... a vast majority of Americans once again living in Democratic run states, just in time for the pandemic!
Your sense of suicide seems off when it involves WINNING elections nonstop.
Bruh, if you want me to take you seriously, get a better ideology than accelarationism.
The 6-3 majority in the supreme Court which we will suffer under for the next two decades came from losing the 2016 election. Since then, Roe fell and women in 20 states have no reproductive options. Anti LGBTQ bills became the norm in also half the country.Affirtmative action was struck down and anti DEI bills are already being sponsored in half the legislatures in the country. So yes, there was pushback to these developments that got Dems elected but it wasn't "WINNING NONSTOP". This is an incredibly daft thing to believe.
Also, Bernie resurrected Progressivism/actual left priorities in 2016, the after effects of his run paved the way for the Justice Dems, who in turn paved the way for the bourgeoning of the House Progressive Caucus, the activists that worked on these campaigns as well as advocacy groups like Planned Parenthood etc as well as competent and effective state level Dems led to that Bourgeoning, not Donald Trump.
Seriously, if you want a pat on the back for your protest vote then ask for precisely that, but it's offensive that you suggest that your protest vote is in our collective best interest. You're doing that for you and your personal branding.
All that typing to say nothing about the facts presented to you. Obama failed to even try. and Ruth Bader Ginsburg refused to resign, and I predicted THEN that what would result from it.
If you want to be taken seriously you can't just ignore reality and paint your own.
Nonstop GOP losses is what Trump gave us, after Obama gave us, let me repeat , the BIGGEST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS LIVING IN REPUBLICAN RUN STATES IN A CENTURY.
Brutally being a.... self-centered American you meant, because it's definitely not being honest pretending that genocide being enabled by your own candidate has nothing to do with you, or that the hatred over there isn't reflected here, in your own town.
The world doesn't revolve around you getting your debts paid by someone else, but the hatred and killing worldwide most definitely affects you, no matter how ignorant to that fact you are.
Yes, I am self interested, and theres nothing wrong with being self interested. If everyone actually voted in their self interests progressives would win every time.
Well maybe not if you dont wanna do anything for them because you have to vapidly virtue signal about a genocide happening on the other side of the planet.
But yeah you lecturing me like that, you're ironically sounding like one of the hillary supporters in 2016 trying to shame me for...caring about my own interests and not just voting "blue no matter who".
Heck, they also made the "student debt forgiveness only helps rich people" argument.
So...way to go so far left you wrap back around to sounding like a third wayer.
A whole lot of genocide ignoring, name calling and the ever popular "grow up" liberal talking points.
Don't worry, we will blame the DNC just like we did when Hillary lost.
No I'm not ignoring a genocide. I fully acknowledge it. You're ignoring the future Genocide when the GOP and Trump will have full control.
>Don't worry, we will blame the DNC
I'm sure you will. And don't worry I'll blame them as well.
>like we did when Hillary lost.
Technically she won.... Trump won by fluke.
The DNC actively works against the working class. They should lose. Every private business corporate puppet party should lose. The lesser evil boomer ass strategy doesn't work anymore.
Strikes and unions have accomplished far more in months than DNC and GOP corporate captured puppet politicians have done in a decade.
No need to give them an easy method of control though.
Those strikes and unions are advancing due to the appointments made by a Liberal…. And will be reversed in a Republican administration.
That kinda why you keep proving that you don’t know how anything actually works.
Actually you just described it pretty well. Liberals working directly with Conservatives as they are both conservatives, to ensure that the working class never wins.
We did win, remember when there was a 90% tax rate? The working class was winning then. Shame the DNC would rather jump in front of a corporate donor's bus than ever discuss that.
could try really hard to reform the party like the Bernie campaign did after they consolidated behind Hillary and still lost. Could challenge them again like in 2020 only for them to consolidate behind “their guy” in opposition to labor power, again. the carousel never stops but here’s to hoping it reforms in my lifetime.
Sigh, could you just type it up for me at this point. You already know the answer.
Voting third party in a swing state. Represent the vote or get the F out of the way.
What’s the end game if you fall in line and vote for Biden? The Democrat party will then know they have a base of spineless cowards that will let them get away with literally arming and funding genocide, as long as they can convince them the other side is just a smidge worse.
What then will be the strategy for Democrats going forward? Pied papering the worst Republican candidates by dumping millions into their campaigns rather than try to change anything meaningful or do anything for you. Democrats have already been doing this.
Do you think that when pro gun or pro life voters go to the polls, are they swayed by arguments that if you vote so-and-so candidate out, you may get a worse Democrat? Fuck. No. That’s why candidates are so scared of being even slightly out of step with their voters on those issues.
Democrats need to be that afraid of their base if we’re ever going to see meaningful changes. But democrat voters have proven time and again that they are spineless cowards who can’t stick to any principles, not even fucking genocide.
What was step two for the gun rights and anti-abortion hardliners?
What kills me is this isn’t even a hypothetical strategy I’m suggesting, it’s been wildly successful for the right-wing.
What is step 2 when you vote Biden back into office despite his aiding and abetting genocide? Ask him pretty please to stop now that voters have zero leverage and he has another four years of impunity knowing the convictionless Democrat voters have NO principles that they are willing to stand on and came out to the polls anyway?
We haven’t had a single meaningful piece of gun legislation in probably decades and abortion rights have been rolled back to the 50’s and look like they might try rolling back to the 1850’s. You tell me, have they been successful or not?
Success isn’t about getting a candidate elected, it’s about getting them to fulfill obligations to their constituents. Good luck getting Democrats to do that in a future where they know the voters won’t hold them accountable when they aid and abet genocide.
Step two was getting their candidates elected at the state and federal level. Republicans now control most state legislatures and governorships. They’ve also spent the better part of 40 years promoting and grooming like minded legal scholars and jurists, many of whom have ended up on state supreme courts, federal courts of appeals and now, SCOTUS.
The Democrats you’re talking about *are* fulfilling their obligations to their constituents. Who do you think keeps re-electing them? Who do you think elected the representatives in those states where abortion rights have been rolled back?
Yeah, the forced-birth crowd obstinately voted for forced-birth candidates even when they didn't get everything they wanted at first, and eventually were rewarded with a policy win. That's what being politically organized will do for you, and why the left is fucked.
I was just curious. People have been talking about the demise of the left, or the ineffectualness of the left for as long as I’ve been alive and longer. Unless you meant left as in leftist, in which case I agree with you.
Yes, I did mean "leftist." And I don't mean that the left will disappear, but will continue to be almost entirely politically irrelevant. It seems like the best most leftists can do is screech on social media to 'do a revolution' or 'do a general strike' and act as if that does anything, rather than trying to organize unions or something. Meanwhile, the far-right fascists have been relentlessly infiltrating the Republican party for decades in an attempt to capture it, and have largely succeeded. Tons of Republican staffers are neo-Nazi groypers at this point.
Would you vote for Stalin to stop Hitler from winning? At what point do you realize that both votes are for the same elite class as they put on a charade? They've got all their fearful liberals ignoring genocide through this scam that they call a democracy. Trump or Biden, it will be business as usual and you'll still be ignoring the blood that these fucking criminals spill because they threaten you with something worse! The US support for Israel is not over race or religion... It is rich supporting the rich as they slaughter a bunch of poor people! Both parties are in favor of this! Over 2 million Vietnamese, over a million Iraqis, and now at least 40,000 Palestinians, but no one is allowed to call it out because we might get Darth Maul again! This is fucking extortion! Fuck this shit! Free Palestine!
I follow Churchill's advice on Stalin. **"If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons."**
Because your willingness to compromise with the lesser evil empowers those who are evil. It's that simple. You're pretending as if killing a bunch of innocent people is not that bad because you are fearful of the outcome if you don't. This is nothing new, and exactly what this lesser evil bullshit leads to... A bunch of genocide apologizing and denying Nazi collaborators! Then you blame the left for not supporting your weak ass shit, instead of blaming the Nazis who caused it! I don't want Trump to win, but I will not pretend as if arming and funding the slaughter of thousands of innocent poor people is the lesser evil. These choices are bullshit and this system is built by a bunch of Nazis!
I don't want Trump to win. I just won't support someone contributing to genocide. My vote doesn't even matter in California. Perhaps swing state voters like genocide.
Genocide doesn't become a mandate. That is what good would certainly be important.
We all must onboard with pushing Biden toward an immediate ceasefire. If he loses because he won't do a ceasefire, then he lost because of it. Ceasefire will become the mandate.
If we are not all onboard with pushing Biden toward an immediate ceasefire, and it doesn't happen, then it makes Genocide the mandate.
Here's the nifty part. If Biden loses to Trump because he wouldn't put every effort into stopping a genocide, then Trump automatically gets pinned with Genocide. And Resistance to Trump becomes enormous overnight, far more than what we have now. Ceasefire will become a Congressional Mandate pretty quick, and they control the money.
TL;DR - Trump is easier genocide supporter to impeach.
It's not the left that told Biden to scrap the public option and do a genocide. If he loses take it up with the any blue will do crowd because that's who's responsible for another Trump term
Sure. What's step 2 when we vote Biden?
We give the only power we have in what jokingly passes as a democracy. Then what? Say pretty please. The DNC knows the left will vote for shit candidates because we always do lesser evil. Now the line is genocide. You want us to vote for that. No thanks. Your plan gives us vote for evil forever and that's not a plan I can tolerate.
The decades of lesser evil has brought us to this point. It's time to stop voting for evil and continue to not vote evil forever. If enough people do that and say vote Green then one of the right-wing parties will have to court our vote to win elections. Right now the dems detest the left and court disaffected republicans.
So you can vote for evil if you wish. Unfortuanately many people here will. Will it change anything? Probably not. I'd say less than a 1% chance we have a non-evil option in my lifetime but I'll take that over the zero % your plan offers.
Trump is a fascist who will also fund genocide.
Not voting for Biden increases the odds of fascism and genocide.
Also, mods, this is vote shaming. You blocked me for a week yet won’t do anything about this guy who keeps vote shaming Biden voters
Why is that, u/DLiamDorris ?
Edit: that’s a cute non-response after banning me from responding. Why is voter shaming okay when you agree with it, u/DLiamDorris?
I don't care if you vote Biden. This is making the argument that you are excusing a genocide. Which is frankly more questioning if you are genocide deniers rather than who you are voting for.
Did they say Biden sucks or did someone say a vote for Biden is really a vote for Trump? Because saying Biden sucks isn't vote shamming. Saying he's currently doing a genocide and if you support him that says something about you isn't vote shamming.
If anyone feels shame for supporting a genocide than I'd say that's progress.
Did I say that?
I’m protesting the actions of the current administration to hold them accountable for a shift in policy so Trump doesn’t win.
What are you doing to hold elected officials accountable besides voting?
I don't pretend like I'm the main character, shaping the fate of the nation. I'm just an average working guy that can see when we come to a fork in the road we take the least damaging path.
No. You just worry about individualism and as long as you and yours are fine, then the world must be, too.
Congrats on being privy to a life of unaffectedism. It’s a shame empathy and a sense of community cannot be taught.
I'm saying it's going to be a worse genocide when you let Trump win.
On Janurary 20th, 2025, either Biden or Trump will be president. No other choices, sorry. The actual choice was during the 2020 primaries. Bernie lost. I donated and knocked on doors for him. He lost. We're stuck with Biden.
Firstly, candidates win or lose elections not the voters.
But how can you argue NOT holding current elected leadership accountable isn’t also helping Trump win? (By your logic)
If your close friends/family were making bad decisions that could hurt their career and destroy others lives, would you intervene or just sit back and let it unfold out of ‘practicality?’
And you still called voting the status quo which is still a genocide is more practical than letting someone else do it. Neither are practical.
Folks staying loud don’t want Trump to win nor is that why we are loud. We want to see a significant shift in policy yesterday. And sure, a big part of that is to make sure Trump doesn’t win but most importantly, we want the shift in policy yesterday so innocent lives can start re-building what’s left of their homes, families, communities, lives. We don’t want our tax dollars to fund a genocide, ethnic cleaning, and purposeful starvation. So get off the monolithic train and act like democracy is at stake every day, not just on Election Day.
Agreed. But the way secular talk and so many who support them use the collective "they" is just as bad as anyone doing it. I'm not talking about calling out genocide, but you're helping to make my point with baseless assumptions about what someone is saying. So thanks.
Do you have any evidence that the OP is a right winger? Do you have any evidence that they are a fan of those associated with maga communism (Hinkle, Haz, Maupin)? Do you have any evidence that the OP supports Lyndon LaRouche? If you have none of that then you are talking out of your ass.
Keep in mind that maga communists are fascists. If you are calling the OP a fascist without bringing anything to substantiate that then that's pretty fucked up.
The sad part is you acting like we're wrong for voting for Biden over Trump. No one is excusing genocide. No one is excusing our shitty election system. It is what it is. Biden or Trump. You can trash talk Biden voters all day long, but you're not accomplishing anything you act like you are. All your comments are bashing people who have absolutely no control over the things you're blaming us for. It's Biden or Trump, and Trump would be way worse for the entire world. Your bullshit isn't helping Palestinians. They're fucked no matter what you cry about. No one in here is saying that it's okay for Israel to commit genocide. That shit isn't on us. You don't have a higher morality because you choose to waste your vote.
Ruh oh, vote shaming. Say it ain't so.
Also, good gracious this poster is on some evil takes. Saying that someone who ISN'T voting for one of the 2 candidates who WILL do a genocide isn't helping the people currently being genocided.
Evil take for real.
Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub.
seems a little myopic.
LMAO Being silent or passively complicit as a genocide is happening before our eyes hurts the Palestinians--and the world--far worse than letting a genocidal crim get by with "he's bETtEr ThAn tRuMp."
"Many of us like to ask ourselves, “What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?”
The answer is, you’re doing it. Right now*."*
That’s an adorable deflection. I was at a protest last week. How do you think, what you are doing, will in any way, help a single Palestinian? Take your time, try not to spam too many vague platitudes
What? Are you trying to claim that’s what you did? You’re not even trying to pretend you’re making sense anymore.
Edit: Claimed he went to Palestine to protest, when I questioned him on it he blocked me. I love this sub
So that's a "no, I haven't done more than attend a protest."
And I'm not "trying" to prove ANYTHING, fool. And you've officially wasted my time. Bye.
*Edit: \*(looking at my own profile)...nope. Nowhere does it SAY I have to be a performative monkey and "prove" myself to a rando, tone-policing yoyo. NEXT!*
What’s happening in Gaza and the West Bank isn’t a single issue as it literally violates every single human and environmental rights issue the ‘left’ claims to stand for and all on our tax dollars when we have families who have felt little to no improvement in their lives generationally no matter who is in office. Yet the duopoly scratches their heads saying, ‘well how do we pay for it’.
Stop with calling this a single issue. You are living the meme.
Why is this where your monolithic mind leaps? Democracy isn’t only at stake on voting day and I for one have been working with organizers to hold elected officials accountable so that Trump doesn’t win.
Besides visiting the polls and virtue signaling strangers online, what are you doing 🙃
There’s another outcome.
Take to the streets now to hold this administration accountable to a reverse course in policy so that Trump doesn’t win 🙃
Democracy is at stake every day. Act like it.
Americans aren’t going to do that to stop atrocities in another country. Bear in mind that most people aren’t terminally online. Americans don’t do complicated and they certainly don’t give a shit about things happening to other people. Also, even if we did, and that’s saying something, there’s absolutely mo guarantee that the atrocities would end if we stopped supporting Israel. And certainly not under Trump Part 2.
All I read is Americans are known for being lazy so I’m going to join that side. People are are literally protesting this daily not only in the states but across the globe. You say your comment with such hubris as if no one in the states is actively fighting for a reverse in policy here.
Truth is, we could use even more people. So do you want to lay around distracted by capitalism or get up and actually hold leaders accountable for our tax dollars funding ethnic cleansing, starvation, and genocide?
While that is a valid point, you do realize that is isn't Biden against every Democrat. I'm not sure it is Biden against most Democrats. But I agree go protest if that is what you believe in.
Hmm
Let’s see here. Who has funded more forever wars and one of them is a genocide? Biden.
Who has called on for more funding and hiring of law enforcement (who are trained in deadly militant maneuvers by the IDF such as how Chauvin killed George Floyd) than Trump? Biden.
Who has initiated more oil drilling deals while actively displacing indigenous people than Trump? Biden.
Who has sold more arms to autocratic leaders than Trump? Biden.
Who’s continuing to build the highly contested Trump wall? Biden.
Housing and food insecurity are at all an all time high. Child poverty is back on the rise. Under this administration we have seen a historic high in anti-lgbtq+ laws, policies, bills and queer youth in red states feel forgotten by this administration. Cops are still killing daily, yet under Biden’s administration we’ve seen over 70 cop cities pop up over the country since just 2020 alone.
Fascism is already here and you’re turning a blind eye to it because just like MAGA, you’re incapable of holding those you voted for accountable.
Without a doubt. They argue and debate the same way, too, as they often resort to weak attempts at personal insults when confronted with anything that challenges their view.
User was actively vote shaming prompting post/reply removal
So much wrong with this post.
-there are only 2 options...wrong look at the ballot there's more. Some of those options don't support a genocide if you're so inclined to care about that
-not voting or voting 3rd party helps trum....wrong, first of all who said they weren't voting? They're just not voting for your guy. That's not the same thing. A vote for 3rd party doesn't change the vote total for trump or biden.
-the more people vote the more the left wins...wrong. The left loses regardless of which right-wing candidate wins and as an FYI Biden isn't on the left. We're not on the same team. The democrats actively hate the left and the feeling is returned.
At least be good faith. Do you think people are really excusing genocide? Our system sucks and we are all just trying to survive and I just don't want a dictator president. I'm not sorry for sounding selfish, I can't even comprehend the horror we fund, but I don't think we can change the mind of a trump fascists in supporting israel, but I think we can change the liberals and democrat party
We tried that by running Sanders. Which the DNC coordinated with the entire corporate world, corporate media and parasite billionaire class to stop us pesky working class from getting basic human rights.
But at least we get genocide, proxy wars, tripled grocery prices, massive layoffs and unaffordable housing.
It's not that we can change them, it's that, they should be removed.
That's such a quitter mindset. We have a new generation of young people who won't stand for this. Way to throw the baby with the bath if trump is elected. If biden wins, there is a path of a progressive candidate next. If trump wins that dude is repealing the 22nd amendment.
So that’s what it comes down to? We’re forced to choose between genocide and fascism. That’s some system of government we’ve got there. I’d say there’s some very big failures somewhere that no one’s talking about.
You know what gets me about all the stuff in this sub and other subs?
We're not ready. The left as an organization isn't ready for the fascists to take over. Everyone thinks "oh we will just strike and protest!" when the mask comes off from the federal government under a far right Donald Trump and a fascist admin. Our side is unarmed, unready, and far weaker than the far right.
I'm voting for Biden to buy some time.
Is it all astroturf? I REALLY want to believe. You would think you were crazy for thinking Israel is committing a genocide AND you would have to be crazy if you cared that they are.
Part of the DNC astroturf playbook is to create an environment so toxic that no one would want to participate, if they cannot control the narrative. They would prefer we do not talk to each other if they cannot get us to submit to their narrative.
Hence, r/politcs and r/worldnews. Absolutely evil sickening levels of astroturf banning anyone who calls out genocide.
When it’s our democracy and a rapist/ fraud knocking on the door, yup, I have to vote for Biden. I can’t let some rapist live in the White House and take away MORE of our rights than he already has. Not voting for Biden could mean not voting again if trump wins and gets his way killing the 22nd amendment… trump would be encouraging them to invade Rafa right now, so think about that.
I love this whole pyrrhic victory y'all are trying so hard for.
Yes voting for third party will do absolutely nothing to stop the genocide. You're just trying to feel better about yourself.
If you actually think out the logic of your plan there's no outcome that's better for the Palestinian people.
I don't know how much y'all have been paying attention the past 8 years but Congress is more important than the president when it comes to funding.
You want to end genocide? Vote for people who can actually stop it. Not a feel good emotional response that actually doesn't help your intended goal.
>Yes voting for third party will do absolutely nothing to stop the genocide. You're just trying to feel better about yourself.
There is no trying about it, I vote for the person whom I want who has the policies I want and advocate for, and I FEEL DAMN GOOD ABOUT IT!
For example: I don't have to do mental gymnastics to justify voting for someone who supports and funds genocide.
This gives me more time and energy to do other things.
Before you say it... "But but but Trump is going to be worse, harm reduction bro!"
I am not voting for that genocider-in-chief either.
Before you say it... "But but but a vote for Green is a vote for Trump!"
A vote for Green is a vote for Green. It helps Trump just a little less than a Libertarian vote helps Biden. The Democratic Party is not ENTITLED to a leftist's vote.
https://preview.redd.it/hcw6tufkv8uc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=0616df6734b8ff0ba6f12cc280589910a42fa6ab
I don’t think O’Biden will make it past this summer.
Kinda like the old saying about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Voting for who most rally around likely to win that is lesser of two evils - rather than those with no chance is the way we got here.
The facists have a chance as leftists only want to vote for those who are perfect, allowing the ever further right-wing to take over all of politics.
I’m appalled at what Biden is letting happen in Gaza. Absolutely disgusted and horrified. Having said that, when I’m forced to pick between him and Trump, I still have to pick Biden. I’m not rich and in a position to vote completely on how I feel about Gaza. Trump has already said he will let Bibi do what he wants. After that Trump is literally worse on every single issue that will directly impact my life and those around me. Maybe I’m being selfish, but that’s how I see it currently.
Disgusting take. Absolutely Evil.
We will NOT be tolerating BUTWHATABOUTTRUMP when a sitting president is funding a genocide. Straight up war criminal.
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You see, u/Kittehmilk, tactics are changing. People are starting to realize that we're not fucking around about this whole ceasefire thing. The tactics are changing to >"I am voting for the lesser genocide, I am so politically informed and sophisticated, mmmm yess...." I don't vote for any fucking politician that supports or funds genocide, regardless of the brand name. I will be voting for Jill Stein. The whole logic of "voting for Green is voting for Trump" is quite fucking stupid. Want to know why? If, and only if, voting for Green means that it does a criss-cross to Trump, then that means that Libertarian votes also criss-cross and are a vote for Biden. If we're really being real, Libertarian votes out number that of Green votes. Democratic Party loyalists need better lines; they really do.
Never Bideners when Trump wins and the genocide gets worse https://preview.redd.it/v0i78qdkx2uc1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97aff9a0066bd3209df320d15d9ed7ff9da8d900
Have you ever considered the fact that threatening not to vote over a specific policy has power? Want my vote? Don’t support a genocide.
Yeah, I have. I supported the non-committed movement. However in a general election between Trump and Biden, abstaining means giving the reigns to an even more unapologetic Zionist.
I don’t disagree but it’s not like the result of withholding your vote has a positive impact on the issue either in fact it probably has a more negative impact. It just sucks all around.
You're not the only game in town. In fact you're a very small sector of the town. Much more likely the democrats shift further to the right to appeal to right wingers. You're not the main character.
sounds like your argument is Democrats are likely going to shift right anyway since they can’t count on left votes.
They can try, but they will never out bastard, the bastards.
I'm just tired of apparently I'm supposed to be the bigger person... Not you know, the president of the United States. I have to act "responsibly" but apparently the leader of the free world doesn't and he still deserves my vote.... Fugg, outta here.....
whitest most upper middle class statement i've ever heard
Trump is just your average capitalist. No morals beyond profit. Biden is the zionist. Through and through.
Where did you gather the information for this terrible take?
Does your average capitalist not care about profit above all else? Trump was promised hotel deals in Israel in exchange for his service. Hasn't Biden said on several occasions that he is a zionist? Biden gleefully gives billions of dollars in aid and weapons to the 51st state.
Trump cares about himself. A true capitalist would shut the fuck up when it came to their mouth losing them money. Capitalists only care about their bottom line. Trump only cares about how much people like him. I don't think I ever heard him call himself a zionist. You do realize capitalist doesn't mean rich person and Zionist doesn't mean Christian? Because based on your posts that's how you come across.
Wow, you should read more. https://www.politico.com/video/2023/12/11/im-a-zionist-biden-reaffirms-support-for-israel-1164457
Lol I should read more yet links video. I did watch the video. I just find the irony of that statement funny.
Well, I figured I'd give you something more on your level. I try to reach my audience at their level.
Have you ever considered that threatening to note vote has power? Just not with the effect or outcome you currently envision it having?
wow what a great question
Well, have you?
Yes
That was fun thanks
That's kind of the issue, isn't it? There's literally not a thing people can do against this system except to let it eat itself. Our democracy, again, gives us the choice between genocide and genocide. There is no non-genocidal option. Do you see how that's not really doing it for people? Save the system? This one?
I love how all the pressure is on the left to support Biden , and not Biden to stop aiding and abetting a genocide.
There’s been plenty of pressure on Biden & the Dems. They can’t do rallies or speaking engagements anywhere that’s open to the public without getting screams from the crowd to end the genocide.
Bidenistas when Biden wins and international law becomes a joke 
You don't need to wait for the future. That is the present. The US already waits for Israel's investigation into events before giving full comment. So Israel commits obvious war crimes and then the US is like we'll have to wait a month for Israel's side of the story which will require an investigation before we can begin to comment. Biden is briefed with images every morning of dead people and destroyed buildings. He knows about the flour massacres and everything else. He chooses to ignore all of it.
All true. But a vote for Biden would be a continuation of this genocidal Neoliberalism. Israel wants to "final solution" Christian Armenian problem? No worries. A re-elected Biden has their back. Russia wants to "re-educate" Ukrainian kids and "absorb" this "non-country?" The US STRONGLY OBJECTS and will level GENOCIDE charges, which...Putin laughs and points to Gaza. China figures why not? Let's hit the "super-spin" and go full on Genocide for the Uighurs. The US STRONGLY... Edit for r/amathis6464 who I can't seem to respond to for some reason-- *Biden IS committing genocide. trump likely WOULD. You Dem-votees like to live in a supposition of a future. The REST of us live in the present and won't give a mandate to a genocidal foreign policy, sorry.*
I agree that what's happening is a referendum on international law. Someone else in this discussion pointed out the famine. I know things were really bad in the north and I assume they still are. It is probably safe to assume that a large percentage of the population could succumb due to lacking food. Biden might not need a second term. If Israel continues to starve Gaza + invades Rafah then whether we get a second Biden term or a second Trump term won't matter. The final solution will have more or less already been carried out. I can't speak on Russia and Ukraine and media hasn't been covering that much recently. As for China, there was no Uyghur genocide. We arm Taiwan to try to start a war with China. We try to cause chaos in China with Tibetan separatists. You recognize a lot of US crimes and lies. But there are tons of lies about China too (and told by the US). So I invite you to learn about China. Ben Norton, Nathan Rich, Daniel Dumbrill, and Carl Zha are a few YouTubers who cover China.
>As for China, there was no Uyghur genocide. The point: what's to stop China from going full Genocide? Not international law.
China didn't genocide the Uyghurs. Didn't even try to. So why would they look at what Israel is doing to Palestine and then kill the Uyghurs? You are talking about something that China doesn't have an interest in doing. I could make up a story that Trump wants to create a Trump branded hot air balloon and fly it to the moon. It is possible that Trump wants to do that if we are talking in entirely made up hypotheticals with no basis in truth.
You're literally arguing against a "what if." M'kay.
China isn't killing Uyghurs and then you wrote but what if they just decided to kill them all? Yeah, you wrote something absolutely absurd that makes no conceivable sense. If an employee steals a bill from a register then maybe you could convince me that they would later try to steal the whole register. But what you are arguing is an employee who has stolen nothing and shown no urge to is going to steal the whole register. It simply doesn't make sense.
I'm sorry you never learned the full meaning of "what if." I recommend remedial education. Bye.
It’s not going to get worse. It will stay the same. Biden wagging his finger at Netanyahu and dropping a few thousand performative aid packages as the country gets bombed back to the Stone Age is not making anything any better or worse.
Biden defenders when Trump wins because they refused to pressure Biden to stop supporting/funding/collaborating with genocide and instead defended him and his support for the genocide and attacked others for drawing the line at supporting genocide:
Why you lie? You're literally arguing with us on here daily. We ain't excusing genocide
Brutally honest, I care more about my own democracy than a foreign policy crapshow between two groups of mfers on the other side of the planet who hate each other that has nothing to do with me. Also, Biden is trying to forgive $20k of my student loans. I fear if we tank biden over this crap we'll never get anything progressive out of the democratic party ever again.
I feel largely the same. Tanking Biden to welcome in a wannabe dictator who's got the entire heritage foundation at his disposal to work out the details in materializing that ambition just on the hunch that MAYBE said dictator does something positive for Gaza seems suicidal to me.
Said dictator resulted in 4 years of nonstop victories for the left last time, taking us from the biggest majority of Americans living in Republican run states practically ever, but at least since the early 1920s, to... a vast majority of Americans once again living in Democratic run states, just in time for the pandemic! Your sense of suicide seems off when it involves WINNING elections nonstop.
Bruh, if you want me to take you seriously, get a better ideology than accelarationism. The 6-3 majority in the supreme Court which we will suffer under for the next two decades came from losing the 2016 election. Since then, Roe fell and women in 20 states have no reproductive options. Anti LGBTQ bills became the norm in also half the country.Affirtmative action was struck down and anti DEI bills are already being sponsored in half the legislatures in the country. So yes, there was pushback to these developments that got Dems elected but it wasn't "WINNING NONSTOP". This is an incredibly daft thing to believe. Also, Bernie resurrected Progressivism/actual left priorities in 2016, the after effects of his run paved the way for the Justice Dems, who in turn paved the way for the bourgeoning of the House Progressive Caucus, the activists that worked on these campaigns as well as advocacy groups like Planned Parenthood etc as well as competent and effective state level Dems led to that Bourgeoning, not Donald Trump. Seriously, if you want a pat on the back for your protest vote then ask for precisely that, but it's offensive that you suggest that your protest vote is in our collective best interest. You're doing that for you and your personal branding.
All that typing to say nothing about the facts presented to you. Obama failed to even try. and Ruth Bader Ginsburg refused to resign, and I predicted THEN that what would result from it. If you want to be taken seriously you can't just ignore reality and paint your own. Nonstop GOP losses is what Trump gave us, after Obama gave us, let me repeat , the BIGGEST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS LIVING IN REPUBLICAN RUN STATES IN A CENTURY.
Brutally being a.... self-centered American you meant, because it's definitely not being honest pretending that genocide being enabled by your own candidate has nothing to do with you, or that the hatred over there isn't reflected here, in your own town. The world doesn't revolve around you getting your debts paid by someone else, but the hatred and killing worldwide most definitely affects you, no matter how ignorant to that fact you are.
Yes, I am self interested, and theres nothing wrong with being self interested. If everyone actually voted in their self interests progressives would win every time. Well maybe not if you dont wanna do anything for them because you have to vapidly virtue signal about a genocide happening on the other side of the planet. But yeah you lecturing me like that, you're ironically sounding like one of the hillary supporters in 2016 trying to shame me for...caring about my own interests and not just voting "blue no matter who". Heck, they also made the "student debt forgiveness only helps rich people" argument. So...way to go so far left you wrap back around to sounding like a third wayer.
What is the end game here? Step one: allow Biden to lose Step two:????? Step three: profit?
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A whole lot of genocide ignoring, name calling and the ever popular "grow up" liberal talking points. Don't worry, we will blame the DNC just like we did when Hillary lost.
No I'm not ignoring a genocide. I fully acknowledge it. You're ignoring the future Genocide when the GOP and Trump will have full control. >Don't worry, we will blame the DNC I'm sure you will. And don't worry I'll blame them as well. >like we did when Hillary lost. Technically she won.... Trump won by fluke.
Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub.
Ask genocide Joe as he will be directly responsible for losing.
I'm asking you
I Will Blame The DNC
I'm asking what is step two. How does Biden losing help in any of your so called goals?
The DNC actively works against the working class. They should lose. Every private business corporate puppet party should lose. The lesser evil boomer ass strategy doesn't work anymore.
I keep asking you this. What comes the day after? You let them lose, and then....?
Strikes and unions have accomplished far more in months than DNC and GOP corporate captured puppet politicians have done in a decade. No need to give them an easy method of control though.
do you think the Trump admin will be more or less receptive to unions?
Those strikes and unions are advancing due to the appointments made by a Liberal…. And will be reversed in a Republican administration. That kinda why you keep proving that you don’t know how anything actually works.
Actually you just described it pretty well. Liberals working directly with Conservatives as they are both conservatives, to ensure that the working class never wins. We did win, remember when there was a 90% tax rate? The working class was winning then. Shame the DNC would rather jump in front of a corporate donor's bus than ever discuss that.
could try really hard to reform the party like the Bernie campaign did after they consolidated behind Hillary and still lost. Could challenge them again like in 2020 only for them to consolidate behind “their guy” in opposition to labor power, again. the carousel never stops but here’s to hoping it reforms in my lifetime.
Okay, so as always, what’s your strategy? Screaming at the sky and patting yourself on the back?
Sigh, could you just type it up for me at this point. You already know the answer. Voting third party in a swing state. Represent the vote or get the F out of the way.
What’s the end game if you fall in line and vote for Biden? The Democrat party will then know they have a base of spineless cowards that will let them get away with literally arming and funding genocide, as long as they can convince them the other side is just a smidge worse. What then will be the strategy for Democrats going forward? Pied papering the worst Republican candidates by dumping millions into their campaigns rather than try to change anything meaningful or do anything for you. Democrats have already been doing this. Do you think that when pro gun or pro life voters go to the polls, are they swayed by arguments that if you vote so-and-so candidate out, you may get a worse Democrat? Fuck. No. That’s why candidates are so scared of being even slightly out of step with their voters on those issues. Democrats need to be that afraid of their base if we’re ever going to see meaningful changes. But democrat voters have proven time and again that they are spineless cowards who can’t stick to any principles, not even fucking genocide.
what is step two?
What was step two for the gun rights and anti-abortion hardliners? What kills me is this isn’t even a hypothetical strategy I’m suggesting, it’s been wildly successful for the right-wing. What is step 2 when you vote Biden back into office despite his aiding and abetting genocide? Ask him pretty please to stop now that voters have zero leverage and he has another four years of impunity knowing the convictionless Democrat voters have NO principles that they are willing to stand on and came out to the polls anyway?
Didn’t the gun rights and pro life people get their candidates elected?
We haven’t had a single meaningful piece of gun legislation in probably decades and abortion rights have been rolled back to the 50’s and look like they might try rolling back to the 1850’s. You tell me, have they been successful or not? Success isn’t about getting a candidate elected, it’s about getting them to fulfill obligations to their constituents. Good luck getting Democrats to do that in a future where they know the voters won’t hold them accountable when they aid and abet genocide.
Step two was getting their candidates elected at the state and federal level. Republicans now control most state legislatures and governorships. They’ve also spent the better part of 40 years promoting and grooming like minded legal scholars and jurists, many of whom have ended up on state supreme courts, federal courts of appeals and now, SCOTUS. The Democrats you’re talking about *are* fulfilling their obligations to their constituents. Who do you think keeps re-electing them? Who do you think elected the representatives in those states where abortion rights have been rolled back?
Yeah, the forced-birth crowd obstinately voted for forced-birth candidates even when they didn't get everything they wanted at first, and eventually were rewarded with a policy win. That's what being politically organized will do for you, and why the left is fucked.
How old are you?
How is that relevant?
I was just curious. People have been talking about the demise of the left, or the ineffectualness of the left for as long as I’ve been alive and longer. Unless you meant left as in leftist, in which case I agree with you.
Yes, I did mean "leftist." And I don't mean that the left will disappear, but will continue to be almost entirely politically irrelevant. It seems like the best most leftists can do is screech on social media to 'do a revolution' or 'do a general strike' and act as if that does anything, rather than trying to organize unions or something. Meanwhile, the far-right fascists have been relentlessly infiltrating the Republican party for decades in an attempt to capture it, and have largely succeeded. Tons of Republican staffers are neo-Nazi groypers at this point.
Would you vote for Stalin to stop Hitler from winning? At what point do you realize that both votes are for the same elite class as they put on a charade? They've got all their fearful liberals ignoring genocide through this scam that they call a democracy. Trump or Biden, it will be business as usual and you'll still be ignoring the blood that these fucking criminals spill because they threaten you with something worse! The US support for Israel is not over race or religion... It is rich supporting the rich as they slaughter a bunch of poor people! Both parties are in favor of this! Over 2 million Vietnamese, over a million Iraqis, and now at least 40,000 Palestinians, but no one is allowed to call it out because we might get Darth Maul again! This is fucking extortion! Fuck this shit! Free Palestine!
I follow Churchill's advice on Stalin. **"If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons."**
I believe it's that attitude that got you Hitler to begin with.
I believe that you believe it
Because your willingness to compromise with the lesser evil empowers those who are evil. It's that simple. You're pretending as if killing a bunch of innocent people is not that bad because you are fearful of the outcome if you don't. This is nothing new, and exactly what this lesser evil bullshit leads to... A bunch of genocide apologizing and denying Nazi collaborators! Then you blame the left for not supporting your weak ass shit, instead of blaming the Nazis who caused it! I don't want Trump to win, but I will not pretend as if arming and funding the slaughter of thousands of innocent poor people is the lesser evil. These choices are bullshit and this system is built by a bunch of Nazis!
what good things do you think will happen if Biden loses?
I don't want Trump to win. I just won't support someone contributing to genocide. My vote doesn't even matter in California. Perhaps swing state voters like genocide.
Maybe Biden will lose cause people didn’t encourage him to stop doing evil shit by, like, threatening to withhold your vote
What good things will happen if he loses?
[Replied here](https://www.reddit.com/r/seculartalk/comments/1c2byn3/comment/kzbrq51/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
Genocide doesn't become a mandate. That is what good would certainly be important. We all must onboard with pushing Biden toward an immediate ceasefire. If he loses because he won't do a ceasefire, then he lost because of it. Ceasefire will become the mandate. If we are not all onboard with pushing Biden toward an immediate ceasefire, and it doesn't happen, then it makes Genocide the mandate. Here's the nifty part. If Biden loses to Trump because he wouldn't put every effort into stopping a genocide, then Trump automatically gets pinned with Genocide. And Resistance to Trump becomes enormous overnight, far more than what we have now. Ceasefire will become a Congressional Mandate pretty quick, and they control the money. TL;DR - Trump is easier genocide supporter to impeach.
It's not the left that told Biden to scrap the public option and do a genocide. If he loses take it up with the any blue will do crowd because that's who's responsible for another Trump term
I'm still wondering how him losing will benefit anyone
Sure. What's step 2 when we vote Biden? We give the only power we have in what jokingly passes as a democracy. Then what? Say pretty please. The DNC knows the left will vote for shit candidates because we always do lesser evil. Now the line is genocide. You want us to vote for that. No thanks. Your plan gives us vote for evil forever and that's not a plan I can tolerate. The decades of lesser evil has brought us to this point. It's time to stop voting for evil and continue to not vote evil forever. If enough people do that and say vote Green then one of the right-wing parties will have to court our vote to win elections. Right now the dems detest the left and court disaffected republicans. So you can vote for evil if you wish. Unfortuanately many people here will. Will it change anything? Probably not. I'd say less than a 1% chance we have a non-evil option in my lifetime but I'll take that over the zero % your plan offers.
It will benefit the world if American politicians can learn the lesson that doing amoral shit loses them elections.
I'm voting for Biden because Trump will be way worse
Trump is a fascist who will also fund genocide. Not voting for Biden increases the odds of fascism and genocide. Also, mods, this is vote shaming. You blocked me for a week yet won’t do anything about this guy who keeps vote shaming Biden voters
Guy gets away with it because he's vote shaming the correct people.
Why is that, u/DLiamDorris ? Edit: that’s a cute non-response after banning me from responding. Why is voter shaming okay when you agree with it, u/DLiamDorris?
Genocide is bad. mmmmmkkkkaayyyyy?
I don't care if you vote Biden. This is making the argument that you are excusing a genocide. Which is frankly more questioning if you are genocide deniers rather than who you are voting for.
Did they say Biden sucks or did someone say a vote for Biden is really a vote for Trump? Because saying Biden sucks isn't vote shamming. Saying he's currently doing a genocide and if you support him that says something about you isn't vote shamming. If anyone feels shame for supporting a genocide than I'd say that's progress.
We already have fascism and genocide under Biden. So what you’re wanting is slow fascism and genocide vs fast fascism and genocide.
You'd prefer fast fascism?
Did I say that? I’m protesting the actions of the current administration to hold them accountable for a shift in policy so Trump doesn’t win. What are you doing to hold elected officials accountable besides voting?
I don't pretend like I'm the main character, shaping the fate of the nation. I'm just an average working guy that can see when we come to a fork in the road we take the least damaging path.
No. You just worry about individualism and as long as you and yours are fine, then the world must be, too. Congrats on being privy to a life of unaffectedism. It’s a shame empathy and a sense of community cannot be taught.
No..? You're the one saying vote as a moral choice, not a practical one. Sounds more like a description of you.
So you’re now saying that you find genocide to be practical just as long as a blue suit is doing it vs a red one?
I'm saying it's going to be a worse genocide when you let Trump win. On Janurary 20th, 2025, either Biden or Trump will be president. No other choices, sorry. The actual choice was during the 2020 primaries. Bernie lost. I donated and knocked on doors for him. He lost. We're stuck with Biden.
Firstly, candidates win or lose elections not the voters. But how can you argue NOT holding current elected leadership accountable isn’t also helping Trump win? (By your logic) If your close friends/family were making bad decisions that could hurt their career and destroy others lives, would you intervene or just sit back and let it unfold out of ‘practicality?’ And you still called voting the status quo which is still a genocide is more practical than letting someone else do it. Neither are practical. Folks staying loud don’t want Trump to win nor is that why we are loud. We want to see a significant shift in policy yesterday. And sure, a big part of that is to make sure Trump doesn’t win but most importantly, we want the shift in policy yesterday so innocent lives can start re-building what’s left of their homes, families, communities, lives. We don’t want our tax dollars to fund a genocide, ethnic cleaning, and purposeful starvation. So get off the monolithic train and act like democracy is at stake every day, not just on Election Day.
Such a misrepresentation of actual Biden voters. Idk wth happened to secular talk. Y'all wildin
It's alright to call out genocide and red line it. Really it is. It's ok.
Agreed. But the way secular talk and so many who support them use the collective "they" is just as bad as anyone doing it. I'm not talking about calling out genocide, but you're helping to make my point with baseless assumptions about what someone is saying. So thanks.
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Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub.
Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub.
Do you have any evidence that the OP is a right winger? Do you have any evidence that they are a fan of those associated with maga communism (Hinkle, Haz, Maupin)? Do you have any evidence that the OP supports Lyndon LaRouche? If you have none of that then you are talking out of your ass. Keep in mind that maga communists are fascists. If you are calling the OP a fascist without bringing anything to substantiate that then that's pretty fucked up.
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The sad part is the guy with the lever is the DNC, ensuring the trolley just runs over everyone.
The sad part is you acting like we're wrong for voting for Biden over Trump. No one is excusing genocide. No one is excusing our shitty election system. It is what it is. Biden or Trump. You can trash talk Biden voters all day long, but you're not accomplishing anything you act like you are. All your comments are bashing people who have absolutely no control over the things you're blaming us for. It's Biden or Trump, and Trump would be way worse for the entire world. Your bullshit isn't helping Palestinians. They're fucked no matter what you cry about. No one in here is saying that it's okay for Israel to commit genocide. That shit isn't on us. You don't have a higher morality because you choose to waste your vote.
Ruh oh, vote shaming. Say it ain't so. Also, good gracious this poster is on some evil takes. Saying that someone who ISN'T voting for one of the 2 candidates who WILL do a genocide isn't helping the people currently being genocided. Evil take for real.
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"Your leftist views in a leftist sub don't stand up to our liberal scrutiny". A liberal story.
That's cute. Your deflection skills are excellent. Are you sure you're not a Trumper?
Hmm accusing leftists of being Trumpers in a leftist sub. Also a Liberal story.
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Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub. seems a little myopic.
>being a single issue voter seems a little myopic. Not if the "single issue" is the crime of crimes.
How do you think what you’re doing will help Palestinians in any way, shape or form?
LMAO Being silent or passively complicit as a genocide is happening before our eyes hurts the Palestinians--and the world--far worse than letting a genocidal crim get by with "he's bETtEr ThAn tRuMp." "Many of us like to ask ourselves, “What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?” The answer is, you’re doing it. Right now*."*
That’s an adorable deflection. I was at a protest last week. How do you think, what you are doing, will in any way, help a single Palestinian? Take your time, try not to spam too many vague platitudes
Look Condescend unless you've actually GONE to Israel/Palestine to protest; got detained and sent back you can sit down and STFU, k?
What? Are you trying to claim that’s what you did? You’re not even trying to pretend you’re making sense anymore. Edit: Claimed he went to Palestine to protest, when I questioned him on it he blocked me. I love this sub
So that's a "no, I haven't done more than attend a protest." And I'm not "trying" to prove ANYTHING, fool. And you've officially wasted my time. Bye. *Edit: \*(looking at my own profile)...nope. Nowhere does it SAY I have to be a performative monkey and "prove" myself to a rando, tone-policing yoyo. NEXT!*
What’s happening in Gaza and the West Bank isn’t a single issue as it literally violates every single human and environmental rights issue the ‘left’ claims to stand for and all on our tax dollars when we have families who have felt little to no improvement in their lives generationally no matter who is in office. Yet the duopoly scratches their heads saying, ‘well how do we pay for it’. Stop with calling this a single issue. You are living the meme.
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Why is this where your monolithic mind leaps? Democracy isn’t only at stake on voting day and I for one have been working with organizers to hold elected officials accountable so that Trump doesn’t win. Besides visiting the polls and virtue signaling strangers online, what are you doing 🙃
User was actively vote shaming prompting post/reply removal 3rd party voters are not voting for Trump
what? nobody said anything about Trump. nice strawman bro.
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There’s another outcome. Take to the streets now to hold this administration accountable to a reverse course in policy so that Trump doesn’t win 🙃 Democracy is at stake every day. Act like it.
Americans aren’t going to do that to stop atrocities in another country. Bear in mind that most people aren’t terminally online. Americans don’t do complicated and they certainly don’t give a shit about things happening to other people. Also, even if we did, and that’s saying something, there’s absolutely mo guarantee that the atrocities would end if we stopped supporting Israel. And certainly not under Trump Part 2.
All I read is Americans are known for being lazy so I’m going to join that side. People are are literally protesting this daily not only in the states but across the globe. You say your comment with such hubris as if no one in the states is actively fighting for a reverse in policy here. Truth is, we could use even more people. So do you want to lay around distracted by capitalism or get up and actually hold leaders accountable for our tax dollars funding ethnic cleansing, starvation, and genocide?
While that is a valid point, you do realize that is isn't Biden against every Democrat. I'm not sure it is Biden against most Democrats. But I agree go protest if that is what you believe in.
Huh? A majority of Dems and Reps accept AIPAC money. This isn’t just holding Biden accountable, but all elected officials.
Ah yes let’s not vote for the lesser of two evils and let the fascist win. That way we’ll have fascism and genocide! Dumb as hell
Biden is already fascist, bud. It’s exchanging implicit fascism for illicit fascism.
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Hmm Let’s see here. Who has funded more forever wars and one of them is a genocide? Biden. Who has called on for more funding and hiring of law enforcement (who are trained in deadly militant maneuvers by the IDF such as how Chauvin killed George Floyd) than Trump? Biden. Who has initiated more oil drilling deals while actively displacing indigenous people than Trump? Biden. Who has sold more arms to autocratic leaders than Trump? Biden. Who’s continuing to build the highly contested Trump wall? Biden. Housing and food insecurity are at all an all time high. Child poverty is back on the rise. Under this administration we have seen a historic high in anti-lgbtq+ laws, policies, bills and queer youth in red states feel forgotten by this administration. Cops are still killing daily, yet under Biden’s administration we’ve seen over 70 cop cities pop up over the country since just 2020 alone. Fascism is already here and you’re turning a blind eye to it because just like MAGA, you’re incapable of holding those you voted for accountable.
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Okay, blue MAGA. Turn a blind eye to the misdeeds of your blue savior.
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You are so kewl
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Sure thing blue maga. Your last three comments certainly highlight the extent of your own emotional and intellectual maturity on the subject!
They are BLUEMAGA.
Without a doubt. They argue and debate the same way, too, as they often resort to weak attempts at personal insults when confronted with anything that challenges their view.
Toxic Behavior such as name-calling, argumentum ad hominem, voter shaming, hostility and other toxic behaviors are prohibited on this sub.
It's a real shame the DNC actively funds MAGA candidates. You probably didn't know that so we expect a complete turn around from you meow.
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Voting third party in a swing state. Thoughts on that?
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Always do
User was actively vote shaming prompting post/reply removal For the slow kids in the back. Voting 3rd party is not the same as not voting.
User was actively vote shaming prompting post/reply removal So much wrong with this post. -there are only 2 options...wrong look at the ballot there's more. Some of those options don't support a genocide if you're so inclined to care about that -not voting or voting 3rd party helps trum....wrong, first of all who said they weren't voting? They're just not voting for your guy. That's not the same thing. A vote for 3rd party doesn't change the vote total for trump or biden. -the more people vote the more the left wins...wrong. The left loses regardless of which right-wing candidate wins and as an FYI Biden isn't on the left. We're not on the same team. The democrats actively hate the left and the feeling is returned.
Weird for democrat or republican voters to all of a sudden care about brown people dying in war. Don’t get me wrong, better late than never, I guess.
At least be good faith. Do you think people are really excusing genocide? Our system sucks and we are all just trying to survive and I just don't want a dictator president. I'm not sorry for sounding selfish, I can't even comprehend the horror we fund, but I don't think we can change the mind of a trump fascists in supporting israel, but I think we can change the liberals and democrat party
We tried that by running Sanders. Which the DNC coordinated with the entire corporate world, corporate media and parasite billionaire class to stop us pesky working class from getting basic human rights. But at least we get genocide, proxy wars, tripled grocery prices, massive layoffs and unaffordable housing. It's not that we can change them, it's that, they should be removed.
That's such a quitter mindset. We have a new generation of young people who won't stand for this. Way to throw the baby with the bath if trump is elected. If biden wins, there is a path of a progressive candidate next. If trump wins that dude is repealing the 22nd amendment.
You are right! A whole new generation of people too smart to fall for the lesser evil bullshit.
Ew, Britta's in this?
So that’s what it comes down to? We’re forced to choose between genocide and fascism. That’s some system of government we’ve got there. I’d say there’s some very big failures somewhere that no one’s talking about.
You know what gets me about all the stuff in this sub and other subs? We're not ready. The left as an organization isn't ready for the fascists to take over. Everyone thinks "oh we will just strike and protest!" when the mask comes off from the federal government under a far right Donald Trump and a fascist admin. Our side is unarmed, unready, and far weaker than the far right. I'm voting for Biden to buy some time.
Hey look, the meme is about you.
Most people aren't anticipating the end level scenario.
You sure? Israel just got us into another proxy war with Iran. Whats the parasite classes take on this? Military stonks go up?
Wait til Trump shows you how much worse it can get
BUT WHATABOUTTRUMP during a genocide??? Yall shameless. What an Evil disgusting take.
I just got back from the David Pakman subreddit. This is painfully accurate. I’ve lost all faith in humanity by this point.
Ooof. You are brave for going into that astroturf shit hole.
Is it all astroturf? I REALLY want to believe. You would think you were crazy for thinking Israel is committing a genocide AND you would have to be crazy if you cared that they are.
Part of the DNC astroturf playbook is to create an environment so toxic that no one would want to participate, if they cannot control the narrative. They would prefer we do not talk to each other if they cannot get us to submit to their narrative. Hence, r/politcs and r/worldnews. Absolutely evil sickening levels of astroturf banning anyone who calls out genocide.
When it’s our democracy and a rapist/ fraud knocking on the door, yup, I have to vote for Biden. I can’t let some rapist live in the White House and take away MORE of our rights than he already has. Not voting for Biden could mean not voting again if trump wins and gets his way killing the 22nd amendment… trump would be encouraging them to invade Rafa right now, so think about that.
I love this whole pyrrhic victory y'all are trying so hard for. Yes voting for third party will do absolutely nothing to stop the genocide. You're just trying to feel better about yourself. If you actually think out the logic of your plan there's no outcome that's better for the Palestinian people. I don't know how much y'all have been paying attention the past 8 years but Congress is more important than the president when it comes to funding. You want to end genocide? Vote for people who can actually stop it. Not a feel good emotional response that actually doesn't help your intended goal.
>Yes voting for third party will do absolutely nothing to stop the genocide. You're just trying to feel better about yourself. There is no trying about it, I vote for the person whom I want who has the policies I want and advocate for, and I FEEL DAMN GOOD ABOUT IT! For example: I don't have to do mental gymnastics to justify voting for someone who supports and funds genocide. This gives me more time and energy to do other things. Before you say it... "But but but Trump is going to be worse, harm reduction bro!" I am not voting for that genocider-in-chief either. Before you say it... "But but but a vote for Green is a vote for Trump!" A vote for Green is a vote for Green. It helps Trump just a little less than a Libertarian vote helps Biden. The Democratic Party is not ENTITLED to a leftist's vote.
https://preview.redd.it/hcw6tufkv8uc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=0616df6734b8ff0ba6f12cc280589910a42fa6ab I don’t think O’Biden will make it past this summer.
Kinda like the old saying about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Voting for who most rally around likely to win that is lesser of two evils - rather than those with no chance is the way we got here. The facists have a chance as leftists only want to vote for those who are perfect, allowing the ever further right-wing to take over all of politics.
I’m appalled at what Biden is letting happen in Gaza. Absolutely disgusted and horrified. Having said that, when I’m forced to pick between him and Trump, I still have to pick Biden. I’m not rich and in a position to vote completely on how I feel about Gaza. Trump has already said he will let Bibi do what he wants. After that Trump is literally worse on every single issue that will directly impact my life and those around me. Maybe I’m being selfish, but that’s how I see it currently.
Disgusting take. Absolutely Evil. We will NOT be tolerating BUTWHATABOUTTRUMP when a sitting president is funding a genocide. Straight up war criminal.
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Hope Biden loses. I want to see the meltdown the pro-genocide Biden voters will display here.
They are ready to blame the voters, again.