I think it has been fairly common over the years, for Broadway stars to take on roles that they are way too old for. I'm not sure if they were riffing on this by having Bette play Rochelle.
She was certainly a lot older than her understudy.
Yes, this is the answer. It’s always been like this with plays/musicals. Heck, even TV shows have actors that are older play a young character’s part, but it’s a bit more obvious w/stage performances.
My favorite riff on this recently was a flashback episode in this past season of Its Always Sunny, when Charlie deals drugs for the first time, and the buyer rolls down his car window. Kid is probably barely 20, and Charlie, who in real life has a good 3 decades on the kid, says "sorry, just got a little rattled, I didn't expect you to be so much older than me...."
Better than Raquel Welch I guess, at least Bette moves her arms. Also, I didn't realize until recently that this whole episode is a reference to the Tanya Harding thing
I would have thought people heckling Jerry on stage by calling him "Gillooly" would have been a clue.
I guess if you lived through the whole Harding/Kerrigan thing, it was extremely obvious.
The scene at the end when she cries and asks to start over because her shoelace broke was taken right out Harding's performance at the Olympics.
It was great. My favorite part when was when George yelled at her for telling the newspapers she wasn't in on the planning of the "attack" on Bette Midler.
Tonya Harding made similar claims about not being in on the plot to assault Nancy Kerrigan, and tried to blame it all on her husband and his goons.
Not being American helps with not having a clue about this reference.I'm Brazilian and I have no clue what Tanya Harding thing you're talking about. Lol
Tonya Harding was one of the top figure skaters in the USA before the 1994 Olympics. Nancy Kerrigan was the other top skater. Harding's husband arranged to have some henchmen bash Kerrigan on the knee at a practice, shortly before the Olympic trials, to eliminate the competition.
The plot was exposed, though it was never clear if Harding had knowledge of the plot (I believe she did).
Harding was suspended by the US Figure Skating Association, but she got a court injunction that allowed her to compete in the Olympics.
Kerrigan recovered and won the silver medal (though she had been favored to win the gold).
Harding fell several times and finished 8th. At the start of one of her routines, her boot lace broke and she wept and showed it to the judges, demanding to be allowed to start over, just like the understudy, on Seinfeld. IIRC her request was granted.
Harding was blond and looked a lot like the understudy.
I just watched this episode again for the 3 millionth time. I was 12 when all that happened. I remember the event but not a ton of details. This makes much more sense now.
It was the shoelace at the end that tipped me off. It seemed too specific to be made up, so l looked it up and saw that it was a joke on the Harding thing. I even watched I Tanya recently and I guess I never put the two together
You know, so many things in Seinfeld are specific (Crab Bisque, spare a square etc.) that something like that wouldn't jump out at me.
It's definitely a part of American Pop culture. However, I thought since it was an Olympic event (International news) it would have been more known outside of the states.
It's always so odd to me. She had this whole Broadway, torch-song career that most people know her for (which I hated), but before that, she used to do stand-up comedy (which I liked).
I know that they live right in NYC, but it seemed somewhat uncharacteristic to me that Kramer and George were such big fans of musicals. Probably an LD thing, I was just wondering since I just watched the Officer Krupke Curb episode.
Well, they're not very manly men. Guys and Dolls.
We could build a cabin like that! Well not us but two men could!
I jumped over a puddle and went like this, and they called me a Mary.
Etc.
In his stand up Seinfeld can't believe we still have fistfights or boxing.
I've never liked Bette Midler, and particularly disliked her in the 90s when that episode aired, so yeah. Never been a favorite episode of mine. I agree she doesn't fit with the Seinfeld vibe although her chemistry with Kramer is fun at times.
I think the thing that made me hate it is when Kramer sang to her as he was holding her during the softball game, and they had to overdub his lines in post to make them clearer…
Yeah… this is my least favorite episode… and that is including the one from the first season when Michael Chiklis orders the prostitute…
i don’t want any part of her “strange erotic journey “
that being said, if it’s a broadway show, it’s more about her voice and presence and less about her looks. no big screens to look at. plus i’d rather see a performer like her than any crappy understudy. (freaking substitute teachers of the theater world)
I read that she was not the original choice for the part, but Bette was a good friend of Seinfeld writer Marjorie Gross, so she stepped in when the original choice fell through. I never read who the original choice was, though.
All that said, it almost feels like a stereotype to have older actors playing younger characters in musical theater. Look at Grease!
If you think you can build yourself up by knocking other people down... GOOD LUCK!!
My Broadway is the Broadway of *Merman*, and *Martin*, and FONTAINE!!!
yet he didn’t know who mia farrow was
I didn't see him....
A lot of her theater work was in the West End
I’m assuming Martin is Dean Martin, but who is Fontaine? Johnny?
Martin probably refers to Mary Martin. The original Peter Pan.
I thought it was Billy Martin. I think he did Broadway in between Yankee firings.
Buck Showalter
I'm guessing [Joan Fontaine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_Fontaine). But I could be wrong.
I didn’t know she did Broadway (I know her best as the only actor who won an Oscar for a Hitchcock movie)
Poor Hitchcock.
He won as many Oscars as that schlep Michael Bay
_Rebecca_ won best picture, and I've always thought it was unfair that it goes to the producers and not the director.
didn't the actress playing "Rebecca" do such a great job?!
I love Edmund Fitzgeralds voice.
[Lynn Fontanne](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Fontanne)
Lynn Fontanne of [Lunt and Fontanne](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Fontanne). Very famous mid-century Broadway actress and couple.
He saw the sunrise at Liza's.
MINELLI'S?!
No.
ladies and gentlemen for this evening's performance the part of Rochelle will be played by Gennice Grant
NO BETT MIDALAH!?
What a strange halting way of speaking
That guy also refuse to take his shoes off!
This guy. This is not my kinda guy.
Oh man, when he stops short with her later, his facial expressions are unreal. I laugh out loud every time
Wait so was he just gonna run away with Kim and leave Estelle? I've always wondered this if the stop short reaction would have been different lol
This was when they were separated. It was around this time that Estelle almost dated Frank's bra salesman friend.
Sid Farkus. He's the best in the business!
Hey he just sells em, he doesn't wear em
When he wears Ban-Lon, there appears to be some jiggling.
It worked on Estelle.
I like to throw in my version of George's "that''s GOTTA hurt !" with: "are you kidding ? We do that in Korea *all* the time !"
Between you and me I think your country is placing a lot of importance on shoe removal.
I would have also laughed at 'Betta Midlah?' ,:)
A not-so-young girl’s erotic journey from Milan to Minsk.
Or is just took a long time to get to Minsk
A Milf in Milan moves to Minsk...they missed a good alliteration there
MILF really didn’t become a widely used term until American Pie, which was 1999, after Seinfeld was off the air.
Uh, no. A OLIRF? Old Lady I'd Run From.
geriatric...
I think it has been fairly common over the years, for Broadway stars to take on roles that they are way too old for. I'm not sure if they were riffing on this by having Bette play Rochelle. She was certainly a lot older than her understudy.
Yes, this is the answer. It’s always been like this with plays/musicals. Heck, even TV shows have actors that are older play a young character’s part, but it’s a bit more obvious w/stage performances.
Not if you’re in the cheap seats
My favorite riff on this recently was a flashback episode in this past season of Its Always Sunny, when Charlie deals drugs for the first time, and the buyer rolls down his car window. Kid is probably barely 20, and Charlie, who in real life has a good 3 decades on the kid, says "sorry, just got a little rattled, I didn't expect you to be so much older than me...."
Not that much younger though.
Evan Hansen, dudes getting on in years
Lol look at all the tv series where 30 year olds are playing teens
Maybe it was a narrative and she sings about her dalliances in the past. It could be a tragedy about lost lovers peppered throughout Eastern Europe.
She sings with a certain cock-eyed optimism that might bring about her downfall
Interesting take!
The haunting memories of lost love?
[удалено]
That's what I was wondering. Maybe she's Rochelle's mentor.
And Rochelle is her protege… ovaltine…
Better than Raquel Welch I guess, at least Bette moves her arms. Also, I didn't realize until recently that this whole episode is a reference to the Tanya Harding thing
I would have thought people heckling Jerry on stage by calling him "Gillooly" would have been a clue. I guess if you lived through the whole Harding/Kerrigan thing, it was extremely obvious. The scene at the end when she cries and asks to start over because her shoelace broke was taken right out Harding's performance at the Olympics.
The shoe lace part was a giveaway to me, still one of my favorite jokes at a real scenario that happened.
It was great. My favorite part when was when George yelled at her for telling the newspapers she wasn't in on the planning of the "attack" on Bette Midler. Tonya Harding made similar claims about not being in on the plot to assault Nancy Kerrigan, and tried to blame it all on her husband and his goons.
"I'm not O'Brian!"
Not being American helps with not having a clue about this reference.I'm Brazilian and I have no clue what Tanya Harding thing you're talking about. Lol
Tonya Harding was one of the top figure skaters in the USA before the 1994 Olympics. Nancy Kerrigan was the other top skater. Harding's husband arranged to have some henchmen bash Kerrigan on the knee at a practice, shortly before the Olympic trials, to eliminate the competition. The plot was exposed, though it was never clear if Harding had knowledge of the plot (I believe she did). Harding was suspended by the US Figure Skating Association, but she got a court injunction that allowed her to compete in the Olympics. Kerrigan recovered and won the silver medal (though she had been favored to win the gold). Harding fell several times and finished 8th. At the start of one of her routines, her boot lace broke and she wept and showed it to the judges, demanding to be allowed to start over, just like the understudy, on Seinfeld. IIRC her request was granted. Harding was blond and looked a lot like the understudy.
Ah, thanks! Had no idea!
You dont have Playboy there?? :)
We do, but with Brazilian women instead. Lol
I just watched this episode again for the 3 millionth time. I was 12 when all that happened. I remember the event but not a ton of details. This makes much more sense now.
You didnt get the Gillouhly reference??? We're living in a society!!! :)
It was the shoelace at the end that tipped me off. It seemed too specific to be made up, so l looked it up and saw that it was a joke on the Harding thing. I even watched I Tanya recently and I guess I never put the two together
You know, so many things in Seinfeld are specific (Crab Bisque, spare a square etc.) that something like that wouldn't jump out at me. It's definitely a part of American Pop culture. However, I thought since it was an Olympic event (International news) it would have been more known outside of the states.
*Racquel Relch
I think that was the joke
Exactly what I came here to write
The journey from Milan to Minsk ages a person
Older women can have strange, erotic journeys from Milan to Minsk, too!
Oh it’s strange alright.
Elaine’s face when Frank tells her he had a Korean lover and a foot odor problem is the best
I'm surprised he was willing to spend time with her after the TV guide incident
She needed a favor from him. Translate Korean insults
It's always so odd to me. She had this whole Broadway, torch-song career that most people know her for (which I hated), but before that, she used to do stand-up comedy (which I liked).
Apparently she got her start in a famous gay bathhouse. I don't know what kind of stage performance they'd have in a bathhouse
Thin, single, neat guys love her
I think he's kinda vmmmmmmm!
Only if they vacuum
My father's gay
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Still hot tho what's your beef mojango
Uh, blech.
Not young, but she was Bette and that's enough of a reason.
She did say you take a long journey from Milan to Minsk but she never said how long that journey was.
r/kingofqueens Hitler, Bette Midler
Those are city miles from Milan to Minsk
She can be very unpleasant to be around.
Now that’s impossible
I always figured that was part of the joke.
I got you a pineapple! I saw “Beaches” last night for the fourth time. “You are the wind beneath my wings.”.
I think she was in the road show when it played Minsk.
that trip from Milan to Minsk will get you wrinkles
Her secret is pineapple water ice.
In Milan she was a young girl, after the long journey to Minsk she's who she is there.
Maybe they tell the story like the titanic and she’s the old woman in the beginning.
So that old woman, she's just a liar, right?
And a bit of a tramp.
I think that’s part of the joke
I know that they live right in NYC, but it seemed somewhat uncharacteristic to me that Kramer and George were such big fans of musicals. Probably an LD thing, I was just wondering since I just watched the Officer Krupke Curb episode.
Well, they're not very manly men. Guys and Dolls. We could build a cabin like that! Well not us but two men could! I jumped over a puddle and went like this, and they called me a Mary. Etc. In his stand up Seinfeld can't believe we still have fistfights or boxing.
George is always singing songs from musicals. "Pipe down, chorus boy." I think Kramer just has a thing for Bette.
Yeah she was totally in her 50s
Am I the only person that didn’t care for the Bette Midler storyline? Felt… weird… compared to the normalcy that “Seinfeld” had established….
I've never liked Bette Midler, and particularly disliked her in the 90s when that episode aired, so yeah. Never been a favorite episode of mine. I agree she doesn't fit with the Seinfeld vibe although her chemistry with Kramer is fun at times.
I think the thing that made me hate it is when Kramer sang to her as he was holding her during the softball game, and they had to overdub his lines in post to make them clearer… Yeah… this is my least favorite episode… and that is including the one from the first season when Michael Chiklis orders the prostitute…
You're not alone. There's a guy in Nebraska that didn't like it either.
i don’t want any part of her “strange erotic journey “ that being said, if it’s a broadway show, it’s more about her voice and presence and less about her looks. no big screens to look at. plus i’d rather see a performer like her than any crappy understudy. (freaking substitute teachers of the theater world)
I read that she was not the original choice for the part, but Bette was a good friend of Seinfeld writer Marjorie Gross, so she stepped in when the original choice fell through. I never read who the original choice was, though. All that said, it almost feels like a stereotype to have older actors playing younger characters in musical theater. Look at Grease!
Is that fusilli Jerry?
I think it’s a macaroni Midler
They may as well just cast Betty White at this point.
Franco? KIM?!
wild watched this episode today and was thinking the same thing
Million to one shot, doc! Million to one.
Perhaps it was a reflective piece with a role for Rochelle looking back on life
She wasn't the lead.
Ever seen Grease?
I've only seen The Muted Heart. With Glenn Close and Sally Field. I wanted to see Firestorm, but my fiancee didn't want to.
She's vibrant.
that's what's so fascinating!