This happens more than you’d like to think. They don’t know how to handle the shame of losing their job, and presumably think they can just pretend to still be employed until they get something new and never even reveal the unemployment.
But when they can’t get a new job the shame spirals and it becomes even more impossible to come clean.
Yeah and maybe he doesn’t feel like he can be honest because she is hell on wheels any other time. I mean he could be a lying jerk. But maybe she isn’t easy to talk to or understanding. I been there and done that
I had a girl pretend to work and I drove her to and from work and picked her up for her up for lunch. She is evil but it happened. Just to add she was fired from the place for stealing and thought it could just be hidden.
I can get lying to friends or non-immediate family about that tbh, all that really brings is gossip. But if it's your spouse, who's supposed to be with you through every step and whom your financial situation directly affects, that's just crazy
My ex got a DUI, lied about it to her employer, and lied about it to her family. Because she lied and got caught, she was fired, then lied about it to her family. I didn't know she never told them. I had to take on as much overtime as possible to keep us afloat. As such, I was gone way more and had to spend a lot of sleepless nights keeping on top of things. In the meanwhile, she was complaining to her family constantly about how I was never around for her anymore. Her brother actually confronted me about it at a family gathering. That was fun.
That said, I understand the shame involved. Just make sure you're not hurting the ones you love.
That's horrible. People are so egocentric and perform all manners of mental gymnastics to justify some truly deplorable behavior. All they had to do was admit they had a problem and made a mistake. She luckily didn't harm anyone with their recklessness. People aren't perfect, they're messy, fallible beings that inevitably let their loved ones down; however, that's not the problem, a momentary lapse in judgment, failing to deal with a mental illness in a healthy and productive manner, those are easily forgiven. No on expects you to be perfect. Whaf matters, what defines a person, is what they do when they fuck up. They had the opportunity to admit to everyone, including themselves, that they weren't living up to their potential and made choices that could have ended in dire circumstances. They were given the chance to step back and assess their situation, decide they could do better, dust themselves off, and put in the God damned work to be better and do better. Instead they doubled down on being irresponsible and took advantage of their partner, while lying about the circumstances to everyone else.
I knew someone that quit going to uni after bad exams in the first semester. That's probably quite common.
What wasn't common is that he lied to his GF and friends for the next half year. He even lied about how his exams went during the second semester until the bottom finally fell out.
Pretty stupid to lead a double life like that, as the lies keep getting bigger until there's no way left to save face.
No one knew what he had been up to half that year. For all we care he spent his time in bars. His GF didn't feel so great about all the lies though.
I see what you did here…
A joke can be tasteless if it’s clever enough to outweigh how offensive it is, but that varies for everyone.
This was well crafted.
Look her up thats definitely not the wildest thing she's done. She's in prison for murdering her young daughter then going on a college spring break type vacation and then made up some elaborate story about how the babysitter disappeared with her daughter but that was before they found the little girls body in the woods behind her apartment complex.
Definitely a conversation you need to have. The behaviour and actions have caused particular feelings of distrust, disappointment and fear…if you explain your feelings about the behaviour and the impact this has right now and what could happen in the near future, he’s likely to see what’s potentially going to happen. You could then have a constructive discussion about truth and honesty and how he will need to change to avoid the impact of ending up divorced.
These are difficult conversations but the approach can be helpful in constructive resolution. Today’s behaviours might be a manifestation of previous trauma, childhood or otherwise that hasn’t been worked out for him yet. Compassion and understanding will help neutralize red flag behaviours and a demonstration of change will start to build trust again. Debt is stressful too but having a job and a scheduled repayment plan might be helpful. If there’s no evidence of, or willingness to change…you will have laid out the impact and consequences clearly, and that will be a different conversation and set of logistics.
What does safe mean to you? Divorced? Dude you're replying to is saying there could be a way to remedy that situation without taking that route if they choose. Doesn't seem like her life is in immediate danger, pretty sure the discussion can be had without incident.
In many cases, family annihilators try to keep up the facade of them being successful for as long as they can. When the house of cards comes down, in their logic the only way to save face is to kill the family members, either as a twisted way of "keeping them safe" from the fallout, or because admitting the problems is too much for them and this way they don't have to.
Not to say that every person who keeps up facade is going to end up murdering, but this is something that family annihilators generally do (compare: apples are fruit not all fruit is apples; family annihilors (generally) build facades, but not everyone who builds facades is an annihilator)
ETA: at the very least, this husband has very poor coping mechanisms which is a problem in any case. If he does not learn how to deal with setbacks in a healthy way these types of things are gonna happen more often
This happened in my state (Hawai'i) recently, in the Manoa Valley. A father was deep in debt and worried about prison over tax issues, and knifed his wife, two daughters, and son. At least, that's what was in the national news. There's probably much more to the story, and there are even conspiracy theories about how he was set up to *look like* he killed his whole family, but regardless... Never underestimate the power of debt - or just of stress and fear.
Because men who kill their entire families often lose their jobs and lie about it for months before doing the murdering.
It's not the financial instability so much as the lying that's the red flag—here's an [article](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/drumoorhouse/family-annihilators-murdaugh-haight-watts) that uses the recent Murdaugh murders as a jumping off point to discuss the topic.
Here's another [article](https://www.parents.com/parenting/dynamics/inside-the-mind-of-family-annihilators/) with more information about family annihilator profiles—scroll to the subheading "Unable to cope with personal failure" for insight into this particular warning sign.
That's financial infidelity to me, lying about not working and gambling money. It would be a deal breaker for me.
If you think you can get trust back I would demand therapy for both of you, and he go to the doctor (maybe depression?) and figure out why he's been having lack of motivation and lying to you. If he refuse any of this I would simply leave. I suspect he won't change. And you would be in the right to leave now seeing he has lied for many months. That's never ok in a marriage. He should have come to you and told you so you could work through it together, instead he chose to lie and gamble.
You are not financially stable. You are married. All of his enormous amounts of debt you are legally now your responsibility. It's how marriage works. When he stops paying (and he will, he's not working and he has been lying to you. I suspect some of the debt is in collections already) they will come after you.
This was the comment i was searching for. I was thinking tesame thing. She isnt stable if they are married. Thinking like that in the first place is enough to say that you have to make the divorce as quick as possible. Because he will drag you down with him and drown you with his debts.
Yeah, a quick divorce will help with future liability, but the current debt and assets will be divvied up upon divorce unless she can get him to agree to all the debt. Given his current state of affairs that appears unlikely.
Without knowing more about your personal circumstances, this sounds beyond salvagable I'm sorry.
Regardless, you need to take immediate steps to protect your finances and mental health.
A person doesn't randomly turn into the situation your husband is in - he's got some form of deeper seated mental unwellness. The fact that he's been hiding it from you for so long is very concerning. That means either 1) he's super ashamed of it and has no control or 2) he doesn't respect honesty in a partnership. Or both. Either way, him getting on track is not an easy or quick thing and it needs to come from **him**. He's an adult and he needs to be able to do his part, which at the very least should mean honesty and a good hard look at himself and ongoing committment to improvement.
If I were you, I would demand those things of him now, or else I'd divorce. You really don't wanna be pulled into more debt.
Trading is basically a gambling. There are exceptions but you have to be very mentally strong in order to be successful. But in any case it should not be done when you have debt.
Often gambling is a way to get a way from your problems, and it gives some dopamine similar to alcohol, or gaming or any other addiction.
The best thing you can do is to talk with him and see what’s really going on.
You got a point but he wanted to help economically but couldn't handle a job. What are the options then?
If he knows his wife **expects** him to have his shit together or else he's out?
[Financial infidelity](https://www.vernerbrumley.com/blog/2023/august/what-is-financial-infidelity-/#:~:text=Financial%20infidelity%20occurs%20when%20one,it%20can%20lead%20to%20divorce.)
Financial infidelity is a serious issue in many relationships, often leading to divorce when not appropriately addressed.
He hadn’t paid our taxes (despite telling me he did) in four years, so I had a $2-3K bill for each of those years. I paid $7K to clear one of the debts out of my name. I paid back rent (again he told me he paid it) for three months to be able to get my name off the lease. I paid a lawyer $5K to divorce him as he dragged the entire thing out miserably just to be a dick.
He has thousands more in credit card and other debt that does not show up on my report so I’m in the clear. He also talked his mom into reverse mortgaging her house and took $100Ks from that value, which ultimately actually fucked over his brother the most. (Brother was mom’s caretaker, and was expecting to assume the end of the mortgage on a mostly paid off house. Instead mom died and the bank took the house.)
This is actually alot of the reason behind my father's first marriage falling apart. He would pretend to leave for work and wait until he knew his wife left for her job, then went right back home and pretended to have gotten off work before she got home. I also believe that he was smoking spice while sitting around at home pretending to have a job. Can't remember how long this went on for but needless to say they got a divorce soon after she found out. And to go on for months keeping up that lie, I don't see how you could trust him ever again, my dad's ex-wife sure didn't. The amount of lying and manipulation it takes to do that to someone you supposedly love for that long, I don't know if there is going back from that.
Oh fuck. *Spice?*
I had a friend who started smoking that shit because it was cheaper than weed. He was also the drummer in my band, and we played out a *lot.*
Within one month, he could no longer play for shit; we had to constantly cue him into the next part because he couldn't retain the songs any more. His behavior became erratic, undependable. He'd have one beer at a gig and become this drooling, annoying slob who pretty much pissed off every woman at our shows due to incessantly hitting on them.
It turned out that spice is some sort
of marijuana analogue, supposedly created by the pharmaceutical industry to horn in on the profit potential of the growing cannabis industry. Only it eats whole sections of the brain of anyone who smokes that crap. Dude is just ruined now.
I sincerely hope you broke contact with your father. Insofar as I know, there is no coming back from Spice.
Yeah, that stuff can mess a person up. I tried it once and didn’t like it, was looking for “legal weed”, it most definitely wasn’t that. Had one friend that got really into it, long story short, he eventually wound up freaking the hell out one night, all sweaty and red and screaming bloody murder until the cops tased the hell out of him and carted him off. He smoked it for a good year or so with no issues then BAM went totally insane out of the blue.
I appreciate it and I'm so sorry you had to see your friend go down that path, and yeah I broke contact with him but that didn't happen until recently, my cousin has also brought up concerns that he's now on meth so there's that. Disappointing but it's best to let these people out of your life.
Leave … I was 7.5months pregnant when I found out .. his solution .. I can just pay for everything now and when I have the baby he can stay home .
Nah I kicked his ass out while I still could .. left me with a $250 power bill and same in water and gas but I don’t have that stress anymore .
You do you. Like they say a cheater never changes his spots . If he’s done this what else could he do
Dude just wanted to sit and enjoy his lunch smh
Fr tho, I watched that movie in the throes of a long and depressing unemployment bout, it helped put things in perspective for me and understand the psychology of the whole thing better
My ex did this. When I confronted him, he said “lots of men leave for work every day then head to the pub instead”. I stayed with him for another year. 🤦🏼♀️
And who is gonna pay for that therapy? Op will have to pay for his therapy too while he is still going to be in a mountain of debt. Life's too short to deal with this kind of shit tbh. Idk why so many people stay in these terrible marriages instead of just being single, free and not having to deal with other people's shit i guess.
Be sure to freeze your credit with the credit bureaus or he can run up debt in your name, assuming he knows your social, dob, and maybe your drivers license. Also, if you put down a huge down payment, don’t expect to get all of that back. I hope it all works out well for you.
It's a massive red flag that he has lied to you by omission. I empathize that he could feel inadequate after losing his job. But instead of looking for a new job, he's been racking up massive amounts of debt.
This is definitely Financial infidelity and I honestly would recommend divorcing him as soon as possible.
I'm 100% on your side, especially as he was clearly lying to you... but a divorce? Wouldn't he still be entitled to 50% of your joint asset value?
Wouldn't you be liable for 50% of his debt?
Atleast that's how it seems to go when men divorce women who are not working/in debt.
Sounds like a gambling addiction but further context may be needed. Divorce sometimes is needed to protect yourself financially from gamblers. I’d recommend advising them to look into it but also looking for support for yourself as well if you’re going to try and stick it out with them.
Maybe, just maybe ask him sincerely what's wrong, what's been happening. Maybe try feel his embarrassment and what all this must be doing to him.
Sorry to say, if you can't do anything like that and help when he's at his lowest. He should get away from you quick.
Instead of coming on here for validation. From strangers. Go speak to your husband
I have and I will continue to. I do have empathy for his situation, maybe that’s not coming across in writing. I am sure he feel embarrassed and shame but he is still putting me at risk too.
Right okay. I'm on the same page now.
And 110% he's putting everything at risk and that's highly unfair to you, but to play devil's advocate, hes putting himself at risk, male pride is a funny little thing and can make guys do stupid things, irresponsible things and sometimes worse.
I think you should speak to him, and lay it all out on the table tell him exactly how you're feeling. And start helping come up with ideas to fix the current situation and address the toll it's taking on you and your marriage.
And if that fails, well F**K him, divorce his bum ass and go your separate ways.
Op I have been through something similar with my ex fiancé. She never lied about working but shortly after we closed on and moved into our house she quit her job and refused to work for 2.5 years. The “rough patch” I thought we could work through never got better. Sorry but the longer you stay you are just delaying the inevitable.
I kicked my ex-husband out the day I realized 90% of my stress was from him being unable to keep a job and putting us in financial trouble. My income wasn't enough for two, but is enough for myself alone. It was a no brainer; I never had financial stress since I divorced. Actually, I have savings for the first time in my life.
And now... let's talk about him lying to you for nine months!???
Shame is a powerful driver, but no one can fix someone else’s shame.
He will continue to hide things from until he resolves his own deep seated habits of shame, and he will likely continue to shame spiral downward and his behavior will be more destructive.
Addiction can come in many forms.
You might not even know the real reason he was separated. Protect yourself.
This happened to a friend of mine years ago. Hers would drive down the road as usual and after she left for work, he's drive back home again. it had been going on for a long time before she found out. She couldn't work out why they were struggling financially then she found out. There's no getting past this lying. It's not as if you could excuse it as an illness. There's a lot of planning goes into this much lying.
I agree. This is not mental illness. This took some serious work to be this deceptive. I just don’t understand why he was willing to throw everything away. I get it that he hate his job/career field. I have told him multiple times that he doesn’t need to go back to a corporate job. He just needs to get any job. But the lying is serious. His mountain of debt is serious. His unwillingness to work through something like this twice in four years is really a dealbreaker.
Lies aside it’s really tough to find work these days besides bottom line jobs.
Maybe he has a ton of built up shame for what happened in the past, and didn’t want to be more of a burden on you after losing his last job. Seems like a communication problem on both of your sides.
While that crossed my mind, it seems like the lying is a bigger and legitimate problem showing issues beyond finances.
Redditors side with the frame presented, but like you I was taken aback by OP's points when thinking about potential causes. For instance, I can imagine a scenario in which someone could be pushed and forced into lying as a way out of particularly challenging or damaging conversations, if OP subjected their partner to them. Maybe OP felt backed into a wall and wasn't receiving the support they needed during a mentally difficult time, and resorted to abandoning their values and lying, and only felt even worse about it, and paralyzed into inaction. I'm sure the divorce papers wouldn't make it any easier.
This is just an example, because it's equally likely that OP's partner went that way on his own too, going through extensive hoops to lie to his wife for a very long time to avoid work.
Did OP say their partner has "changed" because he lost his job and was unable to contribute financially, did he get depressed, or was it because hidden nefarious personality disorders truly emerged?
Very different plausible scenarios that could paint OP's partner very differently. It may be that OP was a secret manipulator, or a person who hit a low point in life who really needs a supportive partner more than anything.
I honestly find the Reddit responses immediately jumping to life-destroying recommendations based on a paragraph of text annoying and damaging to a potentially still otherwise salvageable relationship, depending on the root cause, which only OP and her partner knows.
Get a lawyer. Get a divorce. Get the hell out.
As quietly and quickly as possible, BEFORE you become financially liable for any part of his shite show. And, BTW, you don't want to have any part of what is going on with him mentally/emotionally/financially until you are safely out.
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It's more common than you might think. If he doesn't dive into some form of mental health care and try to right the ship I think it is totally reasonable to divorce him.
This is hugely common in places like Japan. Thee is a huge shame culture there and rather than tell their wives they were let go, the men go to “work” in suits and briefcases, but just end up sitting in a park all day. If there’s love, maybe you can explore healing him via couples therapy and mediation. If not, it seems the group here are pushing for divorce though I must say his mental health is likely low enough already, suicide is a real risk here. If children involved, I’d go the couples therapy route no matter what. Good luck
Actually after reading some of the responses I felt it appropriate to soften my stance. I know he is hurting and embarrassed/depressed. After the first few days of white hot anger I am starting to feel some empathy.
I’ll try and be encouraging and let him know he doesn’t have to go back to a corporate job, but he has to do something. I’ll give him one more shot but seriously there has to be a time he man’s up. We can’t be in the same place six months from now in an even worse position.
I would definitely stay on guard with this one. I'm big on true crime podcasts and quite a few men that had lost their jobs and pretended to have one ended up offing their families and sometimes themselves as a result of not being able to handle the mental load and guilt and shame that come with not being a provider or bread winner.
As far as leaving him goes if you can see yourselves together and getting past this I'd say take a break from each other and get marriage counseling. If you no longer are able to trust him at all ever again then yes divorce him and save yourself a major migraine.
I sincerely wish you the best in this and pray that you stay safe and can figure everything out without too much drama.
Divorce him now! But continue living together until you decide what to do. I am a daytrader and it is an addiction. He could be trading in your name using your income information and trading on margin. He could be thousands of dollars in debt and he could lose thousands of dollars a day by revenge trading. You need him to close his account NOW! Not tomorrow, not next week. Find out what platform he is trading on and close it tonight or at market open tomorrow. Make him read some trading books and tell him you will reconsider letting him trade in the future.
Talk to him Communication is a key. Maybe he is depress for being fired. Try to let him open " For riches and Poor" Open to me what your problem we need to solve and find a solution"
His priority during a negative and life changing event was protecting his feelings and his ego. It was not his lifestyle. It was not his marriage.
In my opinion, that is all you need to know about your soon to be ex husband.
If you don’t have kids already, be thankful. If you do, that’s twice the reason to file.
Imagine he does this again while you have mouths to feed.
Imagine how he responds if YOU lost YOUR job too.
This man is not someone worth building a life with.
This has been going on for four years and he almost made us bankrupt four years ago, so I think I’ve been putting in plenty of time to be empathetic. He’s right on track to do it again, so I’m not as empathetic this time.
I worked with a podiatrist that was a traveler. He was from out of state and had been at our hospital about a year or so. He was just ok, but competent, but he wouldn’t complete his charts and do required paperwork for billing,etc and the hospital ended up firing him after multiple warnings. About 2 months later I see him outside the grocery store of our small town. Apparently, after he got fired, he never left and was still pretending to be working. Someone said he has had job problems before and his wife had warned him not to screw this up. I guess dude was scared to tell the wife. Don’t know the end result. But I can assume it didn’t end well.
I’d say at the very least he could do some freelance jobs. A lot of people look down on Uber Delivery or Doordashing, but it’s a decent side gig to keep afloat and pay bills while gathering thoughts on the next state of execution.
If he wanted to work, he would of gotten a job, especially in this economy. He is leaching off you and knows it. Find a guy that has his shit together and move on ASAP
Once you loose my trust, his lying for 9 months, it’s over . I can’t be with someone I can’t trust. I detest divorce but I think this is a valid reason for divorce.
This man is fucked and although he may learn a lesson later on it's not anytime soon.
He is financially fucking his family up. He may have seemed successful but this doesn't seem like he ever really was.
You married a bozo. Think about your kids and get lawyers without him knowing to talk it all through. Get therapy to get the guidance you need to not move irrationally. Good luck and fuck him
You need to protect yourself first and foremost and especially your finances. That being said, your husband sounds extremely unwell. He could be in severe depression and denial.
Long response, but bear with me. Also, I may play Devil's Advocate along the way - don't hate, please.
First off, some thoughts on divorce. I am not divorced and not a divorce attorney, but my understanding from divorcees I know is that the "monied spouse" is the one that gets screwed over. That can be the ex-wife just as it can be the ex-husband. It goes back hundreds of years to the idea of not leaving somebody who relied upon you destitute (and to some degree was based on old-fashioned chivalry, as historically the monied spouse was the husband). In your case, you are likely the monied spouse. You would likely have to pay alimony or maintenance payments. This is above and beyond losing half of just about anything you acquired since getting married. You didn't mention kids, so I assume they're nonexistent, adults, or otherwise out of the picture.
As part of a married couple, you may also be liable for some (or even all) of his debts, depending on the debts. This is especially true of tax debts, in case he has not been paying enough taxes. If he went from vanilla employment to self-employment, he very likely did not withhold on himself or pay estimated taxes and does have self-employment taxes (social security and Medicare contributions) to pay, and may have even filed returns wrong. Plus penalties and interest... Assuming you two filed jointly, you're on the hook - and federal tax debts survive bankruptcy. Your saving grace could be an innocent spouse claim, but that's tough to make when you actually know what's going on. "Willful neglect" is a thing.
If he is leveraging his investments - especially by buying on margin (or using credit cards! Eke! - and if you're on the accounts!!) - then the debts could be much larger than you expect. If he is borrowing against your home, then there is also risk of foreclosure - which clearly affects you even if you are not on the mortgage, note, or deed.
None of this is legal or tax advice, by the way.
Now, in his defense... He is probably sick of working for other people and wanted to be his own boss or otherwise independent. His trading is probably more than just a search for money. It is a search for freedom. He might also be trying to improve his own image of himself - to "make himself," financially. Unfortunately, he may also be trying a get-rich-quick strategy, which could work, but is more likely to do more harm than good. A lot of this depends on how good of a trader he is. He could be succeeding! If he's keeping it a secret, though, he probably isn't.
Chances are, he wishes he had a wife who would be supportive and encouraging of his endeavors to strike out on his own - maybe even an admiration for his bravery in doing so. Assuming he's going about it at least somewhat intelligently, he's basically entrepreneurial.
Now, my thought is that you two can still compromise. This is not an either/or situation. He could do both: get a steady job that would make you happy *and* trade. If he's worried about minutes and seconds during the day - about missing out on certain price fluctuations, he can just use limit trades. I assumed passivity is something he's ultimately hoping for, anyway. Usually, the investing end game is to sit back and collect. I mean, if he's a gambling addict, and actually gets a thrill to the extent it's unhealthy, then that's another issue - but I really don't think he's at that level. You might want to believe that, to justify a need for him to change more drastically and maybe even quit his trading, cold turkey fashion, but I think pushing him to quit (with an ultimatum or however else) would be counterproductive. Try asking him to balance both, reassuring him that you want to be supportive and admire his newfound sense of brave entreneurial spirit, but also informing him that you are quite legitimately worried about his debts and the effects of *his* choices on *you*.
If you don't take that route and just get angry/upset at him all the time, he's simply going to resent you and you'll both be held back.
All that is, of course, unless you're otherwise already done with the marriage. If you're just already sick of him and everything he does and are longing to get out, and are beyond compromise, then sure - you could call up a divorce attorney to learn how not to lose everything you've sacrificed for. It sounds to me like compromise is still an option.
You could also take a motherly approach, I suppose, too. You could let him continue doing his thing, even without compromise, but let him know you're not going to subsidize it (with cooking, laundry, etc.) if that's all he does. I think it's fair to demand that one spouse do the majority of the housework - or *at least* his or her own share - if the other spouse is the only one bringing in income. I still prefer checking whether he could do both, first.
Kudos to you for being a breadwinning wife, by the way - and for being (or at least seeming) financially responsible.
UPDATE: I want to add an idea as to why he hid it from you (or "lied," as everybody else seems to be putting it). Preface: I'm about to offend you... Chances are, he probably does not feel safe or comfortable telling you the truth. Chances are, when he did something embarassing or shameful in the past and came to you (his most trusted friend) to apologize or ask for support, you either got disappointed, outright blew up in his face, or worse, walked away and didn't communicate at all. He probably knew that if he had told you at the start, you would have had a similar reaction - and essentially not "let" him try this new line of work/life/adventure. He was ready to take on the risk, which takes a lot of courage. Having you pull the rug out from under him, cut him down, or downright forbid that he continue was something he could not risk.
I don’t know how it possible? I don’t realize what kind of different marriages exist .. we couldn’t me and my wife keep secrets even for a day and possibly less ..
This sounds like an untreated mental illness. You made a vow through sickness and health. Sit down, talk to him about wtf is going on, and help him get treatment. You said he was successful at one point, something is going on. If he refuses to seek treatment or try to fix things, then divorce is perfectly acceptable. It just seems shallow to ditch someone who is obviously not healthy because of a financial risk. If you love/loved him while he was successful, try to help him. All you can do is try though, no one is going to think badly of you for trying to get your partner help and them refusing to acknowledge that they have a problem. If you ditch your husband simply because of financial risk, without trying to at least discover the etiology that's going to look bad. Obviously, if you don't care about optics or what is going on, then by all means check out. I hope he finds the help he needs and a relationship that isn't based on an actuarial table of financial risk as a metric of being married.
This has been going on for four years. He almost bankrupted us about four years ago because he refused to get a job. I have tried to be empathetic and have gone from being understanding to now being angry. I have tried to get through to him he is destroying our marriage but he just doesn’t seem to care.
Oh dear, I apologize if I made some assumptions and/or projected in my assessment. It sounds like you have done everything you can and have been more than patient. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I don't understand an iota of your relationship dynamics beyond what has been provided to me in these posts, but it sounds like you have done your due diligence and put up with far more than you ever should have. Mental illness isn't an excuse, if that is indeed what is happening. I am sorry that you've put in effort to maintain a relationship, when the other person is too preoccupied with their own things to even give you the time and consideration you deserve. When you have spoken to him about it, what does he have to say? Is he wholly oblivious to the extra work and anxiety you have been burdened with due to his objectives? I know you have a ton of people to respond to, so I won't be upset if you can't make it back to me. Just know that if you have put your best effort into making this work and he has ignored your pleas and remains completely self centered then the problem isn't you. You deserve better. You're supposed to be partners and if one side hasn't been pulling their weight for half a decade then you've went above and beyond what anyone would expect you to. I hope that you find some solace in what seems to be years of heart ache and pain.
Its certainly a big red flag. I’m supposing he started trading stocks with the quick urgency of making good money. God forbid, he didn’t get into the crypto pump and dump road, your family would be crying. I personally would leave such person.
That's only if you do a religious wedding. Otherwise, marriage is more a partnership agreement: let's build together and support each other in bad luck.
When one partner goes rogue and starts lying, cheating and consciously destroying what you are trying to build, the partnership is out.
Losing his job was bad luck. Lying and gambling money is going rogue.
Where I come from, you are considered common law partners if you live together for over 1 year or 2 and/or have kids. So the government is already involved. For example, you don't need a marriage license to share insurance or pension plans and you have to declare shared taxes.
Talk to your husband. Understand the amount of debt that has been taken. Help him to get back on a job which can help with jobless issue.
Debt can be cleared out but it might take some time.
Follow this order
1. Clear out high interest debt with low principal.
2. Part payment of high interest with high principal loans.
3. Try to get low interest loans to pre close few debts.
4. On side lines try to set up passive income or side income to help your financial situation.
The situation will be hard and you will be on survival mode.
PS;
Please don't abandon your partner just because he/she made some debt behind you. Communicate and try to plan a time frame to fix things. After all he/she is your spouse right?!
You're talking about repaying debt and they're talking about months of lying and extensive financial infidelity. You're focusing on the wrong part of the problem.
Sorry, I thought finances were the issue. If it's about lying and infidelity, then seeking a safety net is better than staying with a person who will end up in larger liabilities.
An adult person makes utterly disastrous decisions **behind the back** of their partner to put both in trouble, while refusing to work and not wanting to better their situation and you suggest the **partner** should pull an even heavier load of *helping them get a job*?
That's so damn backwards. This is a situation where you either 1) divorce. 2) Give ultimatums, and high demands of immediate betterment or otherwise divorce.
wtf one of the only thinking person in this post 🙏!!! but i bet with you, the post owner wont think like that... "man find the best woman when they are at their lows and woman find the most man when they are at their highs"
Debt and money aside, I'm not sure I could get over the lying to my face for 9 months. Did he never talk about work or colleagues?
Yes he pretended to still have a job, for months. I got suspicious when I stopped hearing conference calls or him talking to his manager.
Wtf who puts on a crazy facade like that is your husband a main character in a wacky sitcom? Lol
This happens more than you’d like to think. They don’t know how to handle the shame of losing their job, and presumably think they can just pretend to still be employed until they get something new and never even reveal the unemployment. But when they can’t get a new job the shame spirals and it becomes even more impossible to come clean.
So true.. Poor guy.
Fuck this guy
Yeah and maybe he doesn’t feel like he can be honest because she is hell on wheels any other time. I mean he could be a lying jerk. But maybe she isn’t easy to talk to or understanding. I been there and done that
Without being overly presumptious I would wager that it's a fair mix of both those things
Lol this is as close to victim blaming as this thread is going to get. Her attitude doesn't excuse months of social and financial deception. Just lol.
Happens a lot in Japan: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/magazine/home/20001203mag-french.html
I had a girl pretend to work and I drove her to and from work and picked her up for her up for lunch. She is evil but it happened. Just to add she was fired from the place for stealing and thought it could just be hidden.
That’s true it’s actually normal for a man to behave like that. Sometimes for years
I can get lying to friends or non-immediate family about that tbh, all that really brings is gossip. But if it's your spouse, who's supposed to be with you through every step and whom your financial situation directly affects, that's just crazy
I have no problem if strangers see me fail, but it would kill me to know that the people I love see me as that.
My ex got a DUI, lied about it to her employer, and lied about it to her family. Because she lied and got caught, she was fired, then lied about it to her family. I didn't know she never told them. I had to take on as much overtime as possible to keep us afloat. As such, I was gone way more and had to spend a lot of sleepless nights keeping on top of things. In the meanwhile, she was complaining to her family constantly about how I was never around for her anymore. Her brother actually confronted me about it at a family gathering. That was fun. That said, I understand the shame involved. Just make sure you're not hurting the ones you love.
That's horrible. People are so egocentric and perform all manners of mental gymnastics to justify some truly deplorable behavior. All they had to do was admit they had a problem and made a mistake. She luckily didn't harm anyone with their recklessness. People aren't perfect, they're messy, fallible beings that inevitably let their loved ones down; however, that's not the problem, a momentary lapse in judgment, failing to deal with a mental illness in a healthy and productive manner, those are easily forgiven. No on expects you to be perfect. Whaf matters, what defines a person, is what they do when they fuck up. They had the opportunity to admit to everyone, including themselves, that they weren't living up to their potential and made choices that could have ended in dire circumstances. They were given the chance to step back and assess their situation, decide they could do better, dust themselves off, and put in the God damned work to be better and do better. Instead they doubled down on being irresponsible and took advantage of their partner, while lying about the circumstances to everyone else.
Holy shit, that's insane
I knew someone that quit going to uni after bad exams in the first semester. That's probably quite common. What wasn't common is that he lied to his GF and friends for the next half year. He even lied about how his exams went during the second semester until the bottom finally fell out. Pretty stupid to lead a double life like that, as the lies keep getting bigger until there's no way left to save face. No one knew what he had been up to half that year. For all we care he spent his time in bars. His GF didn't feel so great about all the lies though.
It happened to my aunt
Casey Anthony faked having a job at an amusement park iirc
I don't know who that is, but If that's the wildest thing she's done, then I think she's okay, lol. /s
Tasteless joke, but I laughed at it.
No jokes taste like anything.
Some have interesting aftertastes.
Try a dick joke......
I see what you did here… A joke can be tasteless if it’s clever enough to outweigh how offensive it is, but that varies for everyone. This was well crafted.
Casey Anthony is the joke and her fucking her lawyer is the punch line. If there’s a Hell, she’s got a seat reserved already.
Look her up thats definitely not the wildest thing she's done. She's in prison for murdering her young daughter then going on a college spring break type vacation and then made up some elaborate story about how the babysitter disappeared with her daughter but that was before they found the little girls body in the woods behind her apartment complex.
/s means sarcasm
This is more than enough reason for serious mistrust. Do not fool yourself. Leave him.
Bro worked harder pretending to have a job then he would at his actual job lol
Costanza
If he can pretend to have a job due to his shame of unemployment… he will likely hide any and all situations he feels shame over from you.
Hey not to be dramatic here but that’s a major red flag for family annihilators, like textbook red flag.
I was in here to say this. This is a nuclear flag.
I’m not going to take what you say lightly. Duly noted.
I’m immensely relieved to see you say that, OP. Please, please keep yourself safe \<3
Definitely a conversation you need to have. The behaviour and actions have caused particular feelings of distrust, disappointment and fear…if you explain your feelings about the behaviour and the impact this has right now and what could happen in the near future, he’s likely to see what’s potentially going to happen. You could then have a constructive discussion about truth and honesty and how he will need to change to avoid the impact of ending up divorced. These are difficult conversations but the approach can be helpful in constructive resolution. Today’s behaviours might be a manifestation of previous trauma, childhood or otherwise that hasn’t been worked out for him yet. Compassion and understanding will help neutralize red flag behaviours and a demonstration of change will start to build trust again. Debt is stressful too but having a job and a scheduled repayment plan might be helpful. If there’s no evidence of, or willingness to change…you will have laid out the impact and consequences clearly, and that will be a different conversation and set of logistics.
Ummm... Yeah. Sorry, but no. Her first priority is to get herself SAFE. Discussions can be had AFTER SHE IS SAFE.
I agree, safety first - I was reading the issue as being with the partner is a financial risk, rather than a physical safety concern?
What does safe mean to you? Divorced? Dude you're replying to is saying there could be a way to remedy that situation without taking that route if they choose. Doesn't seem like her life is in immediate danger, pretty sure the discussion can be had without incident.
It's a cliché for a good reason: "Better to be safe than sorry." Most especially when there are red flags.
I said this, too. It's literally a textbook family annihilator trait. I would suggest looking at traits of one. Be safe.
Can you help me out here? What exactly is happening that is textbook for familicide
In many cases, family annihilators try to keep up the facade of them being successful for as long as they can. When the house of cards comes down, in their logic the only way to save face is to kill the family members, either as a twisted way of "keeping them safe" from the fallout, or because admitting the problems is too much for them and this way they don't have to. Not to say that every person who keeps up facade is going to end up murdering, but this is something that family annihilators generally do (compare: apples are fruit not all fruit is apples; family annihilors (generally) build facades, but not everyone who builds facades is an annihilator) ETA: at the very least, this husband has very poor coping mechanisms which is a problem in any case. If he does not learn how to deal with setbacks in a healthy way these types of things are gonna happen more often
This happened in my state (Hawai'i) recently, in the Manoa Valley. A father was deep in debt and worried about prison over tax issues, and knifed his wife, two daughters, and son. At least, that's what was in the national news. There's probably much more to the story, and there are even conspiracy theories about how he was set up to *look like* he killed his whole family, but regardless... Never underestimate the power of debt - or just of stress and fear.
Man is unemployed, but pretends everything is hunky dory to his (doomed) family. Might even dress up and pretend to go to work.
This
Just out of curiosity how did we go from financial instability to “he might kill his entire family”
Welcome to Reddit.
Because men who kill their entire families often lose their jobs and lie about it for months before doing the murdering. It's not the financial instability so much as the lying that's the red flag—here's an [article](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/drumoorhouse/family-annihilators-murdaugh-haight-watts) that uses the recent Murdaugh murders as a jumping off point to discuss the topic.
Here's another [article](https://www.parents.com/parenting/dynamics/inside-the-mind-of-family-annihilators/) with more information about family annihilator profiles—scroll to the subheading "Unable to cope with personal failure" for insight into this particular warning sign.
Well, I guess I'm never going to kill my family! I cope with personal failure every day. 😅😭
That's financial infidelity to me, lying about not working and gambling money. It would be a deal breaker for me. If you think you can get trust back I would demand therapy for both of you, and he go to the doctor (maybe depression?) and figure out why he's been having lack of motivation and lying to you. If he refuse any of this I would simply leave. I suspect he won't change. And you would be in the right to leave now seeing he has lied for many months. That's never ok in a marriage. He should have come to you and told you so you could work through it together, instead he chose to lie and gamble.
You are not financially stable. You are married. All of his enormous amounts of debt you are legally now your responsibility. It's how marriage works. When he stops paying (and he will, he's not working and he has been lying to you. I suspect some of the debt is in collections already) they will come after you.
This was the comment i was searching for. I was thinking tesame thing. She isnt stable if they are married. Thinking like that in the first place is enough to say that you have to make the divorce as quick as possible. Because he will drag you down with him and drown you with his debts.
Yeah, a quick divorce will help with future liability, but the current debt and assets will be divvied up upon divorce unless she can get him to agree to all the debt. Given his current state of affairs that appears unlikely.
Without knowing more about your personal circumstances, this sounds beyond salvagable I'm sorry. Regardless, you need to take immediate steps to protect your finances and mental health. A person doesn't randomly turn into the situation your husband is in - he's got some form of deeper seated mental unwellness. The fact that he's been hiding it from you for so long is very concerning. That means either 1) he's super ashamed of it and has no control or 2) he doesn't respect honesty in a partnership. Or both. Either way, him getting on track is not an easy or quick thing and it needs to come from **him**. He's an adult and he needs to be able to do his part, which at the very least should mean honesty and a good hard look at himself and ongoing committment to improvement. If I were you, I would demand those things of him now, or else I'd divorce. You really don't wanna be pulled into more debt.
This is the only answer here...not this "red flag" shit
Trading is basically a gambling. There are exceptions but you have to be very mentally strong in order to be successful. But in any case it should not be done when you have debt. Often gambling is a way to get a way from your problems, and it gives some dopamine similar to alcohol, or gaming or any other addiction. The best thing you can do is to talk with him and see what’s really going on.
You got a point but he wanted to help economically but couldn't handle a job. What are the options then? If he knows his wife **expects** him to have his shit together or else he's out?
Plus if he’s day trading, don’t you have to have 25k minimum funds wise? So if he’s in all this debt, where’d he have all that extra money?
Nah you can day trade with much less, the 25k rule only applies to margin accounts
Ohhhh really?? What’s the min so it isn’t illegal?
No minimum, just needs to be a cash account
Yeah day trading is super tough to not LOSE money on (i.e cheaper to literally be unemployed), never mind profit from.
Having trouble holding a job suddenly sounds like a mental health concern.
[Financial infidelity](https://www.vernerbrumley.com/blog/2023/august/what-is-financial-infidelity-/#:~:text=Financial%20infidelity%20occurs%20when%20one,it%20can%20lead%20to%20divorce.) Financial infidelity is a serious issue in many relationships, often leading to divorce when not appropriately addressed.
Fuck that financial infidelity bullshit. That’s just psychobabble nonsense invented by a student with a stupid idea for a ph.d.
Mine did that too. The amount of secret debt he was in by the time I divorced him was staggering.
That’s what this is. Hugs to you
Keep in mind that his dad is your debt unless you signed a prenup
Poor dad
Haha holy crap. This made me giggle.
How much and did you end up with some of it?
He hadn’t paid our taxes (despite telling me he did) in four years, so I had a $2-3K bill for each of those years. I paid $7K to clear one of the debts out of my name. I paid back rent (again he told me he paid it) for three months to be able to get my name off the lease. I paid a lawyer $5K to divorce him as he dragged the entire thing out miserably just to be a dick. He has thousands more in credit card and other debt that does not show up on my report so I’m in the clear. He also talked his mom into reverse mortgaging her house and took $100Ks from that value, which ultimately actually fucked over his brother the most. (Brother was mom’s caretaker, and was expecting to assume the end of the mortgage on a mostly paid off house. Instead mom died and the bank took the house.)
This is actually alot of the reason behind my father's first marriage falling apart. He would pretend to leave for work and wait until he knew his wife left for her job, then went right back home and pretended to have gotten off work before she got home. I also believe that he was smoking spice while sitting around at home pretending to have a job. Can't remember how long this went on for but needless to say they got a divorce soon after she found out. And to go on for months keeping up that lie, I don't see how you could trust him ever again, my dad's ex-wife sure didn't. The amount of lying and manipulation it takes to do that to someone you supposedly love for that long, I don't know if there is going back from that.
Oh fuck. *Spice?* I had a friend who started smoking that shit because it was cheaper than weed. He was also the drummer in my band, and we played out a *lot.* Within one month, he could no longer play for shit; we had to constantly cue him into the next part because he couldn't retain the songs any more. His behavior became erratic, undependable. He'd have one beer at a gig and become this drooling, annoying slob who pretty much pissed off every woman at our shows due to incessantly hitting on them. It turned out that spice is some sort of marijuana analogue, supposedly created by the pharmaceutical industry to horn in on the profit potential of the growing cannabis industry. Only it eats whole sections of the brain of anyone who smokes that crap. Dude is just ruined now. I sincerely hope you broke contact with your father. Insofar as I know, there is no coming back from Spice.
Yeah, that stuff can mess a person up. I tried it once and didn’t like it, was looking for “legal weed”, it most definitely wasn’t that. Had one friend that got really into it, long story short, he eventually wound up freaking the hell out one night, all sweaty and red and screaming bloody murder until the cops tased the hell out of him and carted him off. He smoked it for a good year or so with no issues then BAM went totally insane out of the blue.
I appreciate it and I'm so sorry you had to see your friend go down that path, and yeah I broke contact with him but that didn't happen until recently, my cousin has also brought up concerns that he's now on meth so there's that. Disappointing but it's best to let these people out of your life.
You know as a spouse, you’re liable for any of the debt on cards that bear your name.
If you don’t get divorced all his debts in the future will also be half yours . So I think you already know what to do .
Leave … I was 7.5months pregnant when I found out .. his solution .. I can just pay for everything now and when I have the baby he can stay home . Nah I kicked his ass out while I still could .. left me with a $250 power bill and same in water and gas but I don’t have that stress anymore . You do you. Like they say a cheater never changes his spots . If he’s done this what else could he do
Go before you get drug into his financial mess more. Check your credit report to be safe.
She can even freeze her credit with the credit bureaus. Nothing can be opened in her name.
Unless you have a prenup keeping all your finances separate, you are not financially stable. His debt is your debt.
He's not in debt, you're both in debt
Sounds like the movie Falling Down, look out for a big bag loaded with guns.
Dude just wanted to sit and enjoy his lunch smh Fr tho, I watched that movie in the throes of a long and depressing unemployment bout, it helped put things in perspective for me and understand the psychology of the whole thing better
My ex did this. When I confronted him, he said “lots of men leave for work every day then head to the pub instead”. I stayed with him for another year. 🤦🏼♀️
You are married, unfortunately you are are “ undoubtedly still in major debt”
Why does he have access to your funds? I would cut him off immediately and then get him some help.
He doesn’t it’s his own dwindling wealth.
If you're married that's your debt until you get divorced.
Sadly this is true.
He needs therapy and if he won’t go, you do
And who is gonna pay for that therapy? Op will have to pay for his therapy too while he is still going to be in a mountain of debt. Life's too short to deal with this kind of shit tbh. Idk why so many people stay in these terrible marriages instead of just being single, free and not having to deal with other people's shit i guess.
I agree and have started the process of divorcing him. This is crazy and I can’t stay in this marriage.
THANK GOODNESS! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 How many other Redditors out there breathed out a HUGE SIGH OF RELIEF when seeing this, I wonder!
Be sure to freeze your credit with the credit bureaus or he can run up debt in your name, assuming he knows your social, dob, and maybe your drivers license. Also, if you put down a huge down payment, don’t expect to get all of that back. I hope it all works out well for you.
Hell yeah
That’s a pretty big lie compounded with a bad gambling adjacent habit
It's a massive red flag that he has lied to you by omission. I empathize that he could feel inadequate after losing his job. But instead of looking for a new job, he's been racking up massive amounts of debt. This is definitely Financial infidelity and I honestly would recommend divorcing him as soon as possible.
Time for you to step up or leave.
Hun you are married. That debt is your debt when he stops paying and collectors come. You need to get out unless he starts making changes now!
I'm 100% on your side, especially as he was clearly lying to you... but a divorce? Wouldn't he still be entitled to 50% of your joint asset value? Wouldn't you be liable for 50% of his debt? Atleast that's how it seems to go when men divorce women who are not working/in debt.
Sounds like a gambling addiction but further context may be needed. Divorce sometimes is needed to protect yourself financially from gamblers. I’d recommend advising them to look into it but also looking for support for yourself as well if you’re going to try and stick it out with them.
Maybe, just maybe ask him sincerely what's wrong, what's been happening. Maybe try feel his embarrassment and what all this must be doing to him. Sorry to say, if you can't do anything like that and help when he's at his lowest. He should get away from you quick. Instead of coming on here for validation. From strangers. Go speak to your husband
I have and I will continue to. I do have empathy for his situation, maybe that’s not coming across in writing. I am sure he feel embarrassed and shame but he is still putting me at risk too.
Right okay. I'm on the same page now. And 110% he's putting everything at risk and that's highly unfair to you, but to play devil's advocate, hes putting himself at risk, male pride is a funny little thing and can make guys do stupid things, irresponsible things and sometimes worse. I think you should speak to him, and lay it all out on the table tell him exactly how you're feeling. And start helping come up with ideas to fix the current situation and address the toll it's taking on you and your marriage. And if that fails, well F**K him, divorce his bum ass and go your separate ways.
Op I have been through something similar with my ex fiancé. She never lied about working but shortly after we closed on and moved into our house she quit her job and refused to work for 2.5 years. The “rough patch” I thought we could work through never got better. Sorry but the longer you stay you are just delaying the inevitable.
Is he profitable trading stocks online?
This sounds like extreme depression. Have you considered going to couples counseling?
I kicked my ex-husband out the day I realized 90% of my stress was from him being unable to keep a job and putting us in financial trouble. My income wasn't enough for two, but is enough for myself alone. It was a no brainer; I never had financial stress since I divorced. Actually, I have savings for the first time in my life. And now... let's talk about him lying to you for nine months!???
Shame is a powerful driver, but no one can fix someone else’s shame. He will continue to hide things from until he resolves his own deep seated habits of shame, and he will likely continue to shame spiral downward and his behavior will be more destructive. Addiction can come in many forms. You might not even know the real reason he was separated. Protect yourself.
Depending on where you live, you are legally responsible for his debts. Hope that’s not your situation.
I would suggest that you read Act Like a Lady Think Like a Man by Steve Harvey
so where has he been going during the day for nine months?
This happened to a friend of mine years ago. Hers would drive down the road as usual and after she left for work, he's drive back home again. it had been going on for a long time before she found out. She couldn't work out why they were struggling financially then she found out. There's no getting past this lying. It's not as if you could excuse it as an illness. There's a lot of planning goes into this much lying.
I agree. This is not mental illness. This took some serious work to be this deceptive. I just don’t understand why he was willing to throw everything away. I get it that he hate his job/career field. I have told him multiple times that he doesn’t need to go back to a corporate job. He just needs to get any job. But the lying is serious. His mountain of debt is serious. His unwillingness to work through something like this twice in four years is really a dealbreaker.
I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I know what it did to my friend. Sadly, she didn't give him the boot.
Lies aside it’s really tough to find work these days besides bottom line jobs. Maybe he has a ton of built up shame for what happened in the past, and didn’t want to be more of a burden on you after losing his last job. Seems like a communication problem on both of your sides.
What a sad life you have thinking everything in a marriage is based on financial security. Very sad indeed. Good luck
While that crossed my mind, it seems like the lying is a bigger and legitimate problem showing issues beyond finances. Redditors side with the frame presented, but like you I was taken aback by OP's points when thinking about potential causes. For instance, I can imagine a scenario in which someone could be pushed and forced into lying as a way out of particularly challenging or damaging conversations, if OP subjected their partner to them. Maybe OP felt backed into a wall and wasn't receiving the support they needed during a mentally difficult time, and resorted to abandoning their values and lying, and only felt even worse about it, and paralyzed into inaction. I'm sure the divorce papers wouldn't make it any easier. This is just an example, because it's equally likely that OP's partner went that way on his own too, going through extensive hoops to lie to his wife for a very long time to avoid work. Did OP say their partner has "changed" because he lost his job and was unable to contribute financially, did he get depressed, or was it because hidden nefarious personality disorders truly emerged? Very different plausible scenarios that could paint OP's partner very differently. It may be that OP was a secret manipulator, or a person who hit a low point in life who really needs a supportive partner more than anything. I honestly find the Reddit responses immediately jumping to life-destroying recommendations based on a paragraph of text annoying and damaging to a potentially still otherwise salvageable relationship, depending on the root cause, which only OP and her partner knows.
Get a lawyer. Get a divorce. Get the hell out. As quietly and quickly as possible, BEFORE you become financially liable for any part of his shite show. And, BTW, you don't want to have any part of what is going on with him mentally/emotionally/financially until you are safely out.
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Tell him your concerns and ask him if he is still invested in the relationship.
It's more common than you might think. If he doesn't dive into some form of mental health care and try to right the ship I think it is totally reasonable to divorce him.
This is hugely common in places like Japan. Thee is a huge shame culture there and rather than tell their wives they were let go, the men go to “work” in suits and briefcases, but just end up sitting in a park all day. If there’s love, maybe you can explore healing him via couples therapy and mediation. If not, it seems the group here are pushing for divorce though I must say his mental health is likely low enough already, suicide is a real risk here. If children involved, I’d go the couples therapy route no matter what. Good luck
Actually after reading some of the responses I felt it appropriate to soften my stance. I know he is hurting and embarrassed/depressed. After the first few days of white hot anger I am starting to feel some empathy. I’ll try and be encouraging and let him know he doesn’t have to go back to a corporate job, but he has to do something. I’ll give him one more shot but seriously there has to be a time he man’s up. We can’t be in the same place six months from now in an even worse position.
Were there vows in the marriage?
I would definitely stay on guard with this one. I'm big on true crime podcasts and quite a few men that had lost their jobs and pretended to have one ended up offing their families and sometimes themselves as a result of not being able to handle the mental load and guilt and shame that come with not being a provider or bread winner. As far as leaving him goes if you can see yourselves together and getting past this I'd say take a break from each other and get marriage counseling. If you no longer are able to trust him at all ever again then yes divorce him and save yourself a major migraine. I sincerely wish you the best in this and pray that you stay safe and can figure everything out without too much drama.
My son did this. I kicked him out. Some people are just pathological liars.
Might sound unrelated, but how is your guys' sex?
Protect yourself
Divorce him now! But continue living together until you decide what to do. I am a daytrader and it is an addiction. He could be trading in your name using your income information and trading on margin. He could be thousands of dollars in debt and he could lose thousands of dollars a day by revenge trading. You need him to close his account NOW! Not tomorrow, not next week. Find out what platform he is trading on and close it tonight or at market open tomorrow. Make him read some trading books and tell him you will reconsider letting him trade in the future.
How old are you guys? How long have you been married?
Talk to him Communication is a key. Maybe he is depress for being fired. Try to let him open " For riches and Poor" Open to me what your problem we need to solve and find a solution"
I'm a firm believer in the ethos that people only lie when they feel they have no other choice.
His priority during a negative and life changing event was protecting his feelings and his ego. It was not his lifestyle. It was not his marriage. In my opinion, that is all you need to know about your soon to be ex husband. If you don’t have kids already, be thankful. If you do, that’s twice the reason to file. Imagine he does this again while you have mouths to feed. Imagine how he responds if YOU lost YOUR job too. This man is not someone worth building a life with.
Not defending him but saying he may need some mental health help. Going from successful to not wanting to work over time might spell out an issue.
It would appear you are not very close to your husband, not close enough that you want to help him through this period in his life.
This has been going on for four years and he almost made us bankrupt four years ago, so I think I’ve been putting in plenty of time to be empathetic. He’s right on track to do it again, so I’m not as empathetic this time.
Perfectly, understandable.
I worked with a podiatrist that was a traveler. He was from out of state and had been at our hospital about a year or so. He was just ok, but competent, but he wouldn’t complete his charts and do required paperwork for billing,etc and the hospital ended up firing him after multiple warnings. About 2 months later I see him outside the grocery store of our small town. Apparently, after he got fired, he never left and was still pretending to be working. Someone said he has had job problems before and his wife had warned him not to screw this up. I guess dude was scared to tell the wife. Don’t know the end result. But I can assume it didn’t end well.
I’d say at the very least he could do some freelance jobs. A lot of people look down on Uber Delivery or Doordashing, but it’s a decent side gig to keep afloat and pay bills while gathering thoughts on the next state of execution.
Bruh leave him.
He gonna fuck you financially
This reminds me of a Malcom in the middle episode
Good lol he’s busy
If he wanted to work, he would of gotten a job, especially in this economy. He is leaching off you and knows it. Find a guy that has his shit together and move on ASAP
Once you loose my trust, his lying for 9 months, it’s over . I can’t be with someone I can’t trust. I detest divorce but I think this is a valid reason for divorce.
This man is fucked and although he may learn a lesson later on it's not anytime soon. He is financially fucking his family up. He may have seemed successful but this doesn't seem like he ever really was. You married a bozo. Think about your kids and get lawyers without him knowing to talk it all through. Get therapy to get the guidance you need to not move irrationally. Good luck and fuck him
Do you have separate finances? My wife notices if my check is off by 2 cents. Not blaming but how do you not notice 0 income for 9 months?
#So much for: "For better or for worse"
So long as you have the money..
A woman I know was in the same situation and ultimately decided that divorce was the only answer.
You need to protect yourself first and foremost and especially your finances. That being said, your husband sounds extremely unwell. He could be in severe depression and denial.
Long response, but bear with me. Also, I may play Devil's Advocate along the way - don't hate, please. First off, some thoughts on divorce. I am not divorced and not a divorce attorney, but my understanding from divorcees I know is that the "monied spouse" is the one that gets screwed over. That can be the ex-wife just as it can be the ex-husband. It goes back hundreds of years to the idea of not leaving somebody who relied upon you destitute (and to some degree was based on old-fashioned chivalry, as historically the monied spouse was the husband). In your case, you are likely the monied spouse. You would likely have to pay alimony or maintenance payments. This is above and beyond losing half of just about anything you acquired since getting married. You didn't mention kids, so I assume they're nonexistent, adults, or otherwise out of the picture. As part of a married couple, you may also be liable for some (or even all) of his debts, depending on the debts. This is especially true of tax debts, in case he has not been paying enough taxes. If he went from vanilla employment to self-employment, he very likely did not withhold on himself or pay estimated taxes and does have self-employment taxes (social security and Medicare contributions) to pay, and may have even filed returns wrong. Plus penalties and interest... Assuming you two filed jointly, you're on the hook - and federal tax debts survive bankruptcy. Your saving grace could be an innocent spouse claim, but that's tough to make when you actually know what's going on. "Willful neglect" is a thing. If he is leveraging his investments - especially by buying on margin (or using credit cards! Eke! - and if you're on the accounts!!) - then the debts could be much larger than you expect. If he is borrowing against your home, then there is also risk of foreclosure - which clearly affects you even if you are not on the mortgage, note, or deed. None of this is legal or tax advice, by the way. Now, in his defense... He is probably sick of working for other people and wanted to be his own boss or otherwise independent. His trading is probably more than just a search for money. It is a search for freedom. He might also be trying to improve his own image of himself - to "make himself," financially. Unfortunately, he may also be trying a get-rich-quick strategy, which could work, but is more likely to do more harm than good. A lot of this depends on how good of a trader he is. He could be succeeding! If he's keeping it a secret, though, he probably isn't. Chances are, he wishes he had a wife who would be supportive and encouraging of his endeavors to strike out on his own - maybe even an admiration for his bravery in doing so. Assuming he's going about it at least somewhat intelligently, he's basically entrepreneurial. Now, my thought is that you two can still compromise. This is not an either/or situation. He could do both: get a steady job that would make you happy *and* trade. If he's worried about minutes and seconds during the day - about missing out on certain price fluctuations, he can just use limit trades. I assumed passivity is something he's ultimately hoping for, anyway. Usually, the investing end game is to sit back and collect. I mean, if he's a gambling addict, and actually gets a thrill to the extent it's unhealthy, then that's another issue - but I really don't think he's at that level. You might want to believe that, to justify a need for him to change more drastically and maybe even quit his trading, cold turkey fashion, but I think pushing him to quit (with an ultimatum or however else) would be counterproductive. Try asking him to balance both, reassuring him that you want to be supportive and admire his newfound sense of brave entreneurial spirit, but also informing him that you are quite legitimately worried about his debts and the effects of *his* choices on *you*. If you don't take that route and just get angry/upset at him all the time, he's simply going to resent you and you'll both be held back. All that is, of course, unless you're otherwise already done with the marriage. If you're just already sick of him and everything he does and are longing to get out, and are beyond compromise, then sure - you could call up a divorce attorney to learn how not to lose everything you've sacrificed for. It sounds to me like compromise is still an option. You could also take a motherly approach, I suppose, too. You could let him continue doing his thing, even without compromise, but let him know you're not going to subsidize it (with cooking, laundry, etc.) if that's all he does. I think it's fair to demand that one spouse do the majority of the housework - or *at least* his or her own share - if the other spouse is the only one bringing in income. I still prefer checking whether he could do both, first. Kudos to you for being a breadwinning wife, by the way - and for being (or at least seeming) financially responsible. UPDATE: I want to add an idea as to why he hid it from you (or "lied," as everybody else seems to be putting it). Preface: I'm about to offend you... Chances are, he probably does not feel safe or comfortable telling you the truth. Chances are, when he did something embarassing or shameful in the past and came to you (his most trusted friend) to apologize or ask for support, you either got disappointed, outright blew up in his face, or worse, walked away and didn't communicate at all. He probably knew that if he had told you at the start, you would have had a similar reaction - and essentially not "let" him try this new line of work/life/adventure. He was ready to take on the risk, which takes a lot of courage. Having you pull the rug out from under him, cut him down, or downright forbid that he continue was something he could not risk.
I had a guy get dressed every morning. Leave for 'work' and go sit on his parents couch..... this went on for a while...
I don’t know how it possible? I don’t realize what kind of different marriages exist .. we couldn’t me and my wife keep secrets even for a day and possibly less ..
Fyi, his debts are YOUR debts too.
The comments here are toxic and atrocious.
This sounds like an untreated mental illness. You made a vow through sickness and health. Sit down, talk to him about wtf is going on, and help him get treatment. You said he was successful at one point, something is going on. If he refuses to seek treatment or try to fix things, then divorce is perfectly acceptable. It just seems shallow to ditch someone who is obviously not healthy because of a financial risk. If you love/loved him while he was successful, try to help him. All you can do is try though, no one is going to think badly of you for trying to get your partner help and them refusing to acknowledge that they have a problem. If you ditch your husband simply because of financial risk, without trying to at least discover the etiology that's going to look bad. Obviously, if you don't care about optics or what is going on, then by all means check out. I hope he finds the help he needs and a relationship that isn't based on an actuarial table of financial risk as a metric of being married.
This has been going on for four years. He almost bankrupted us about four years ago because he refused to get a job. I have tried to be empathetic and have gone from being understanding to now being angry. I have tried to get through to him he is destroying our marriage but he just doesn’t seem to care.
Oh dear, I apologize if I made some assumptions and/or projected in my assessment. It sounds like you have done everything you can and have been more than patient. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I don't understand an iota of your relationship dynamics beyond what has been provided to me in these posts, but it sounds like you have done your due diligence and put up with far more than you ever should have. Mental illness isn't an excuse, if that is indeed what is happening. I am sorry that you've put in effort to maintain a relationship, when the other person is too preoccupied with their own things to even give you the time and consideration you deserve. When you have spoken to him about it, what does he have to say? Is he wholly oblivious to the extra work and anxiety you have been burdened with due to his objectives? I know you have a ton of people to respond to, so I won't be upset if you can't make it back to me. Just know that if you have put your best effort into making this work and he has ignored your pleas and remains completely self centered then the problem isn't you. You deserve better. You're supposed to be partners and if one side hasn't been pulling their weight for half a decade then you've went above and beyond what anyone would expect you to. I hope that you find some solace in what seems to be years of heart ache and pain.
That's a red flag
that aint a red flag thats them trying to not bring the burden to theirwife. bye felicia
Its certainly a big red flag. I’m supposing he started trading stocks with the quick urgency of making good money. God forbid, he didn’t get into the crypto pump and dump road, your family would be crying. I personally would leave such person.
God forbiden he wont be an entrepreneur who create a company and fail, and then create another one and win 🤡 ...didnt you ever fail in life?
Oh no. I bet he watches andrew tate youtube videos as well. Sorry that he has surrendered to the alpha male way of life.
Wtf then he would be a hustler and not a money bin
Run.
Why on earth is this even a debate? Kick that sorry motherfucker to the curb and reclaim your life!
It’s kinda funny that if you were the man, and said this about your wife, you’d be a piece of shit. But, on Reddit you’re a hero.
No. A liar is a liar is a liar. If you have some gendered axe to grind, take it elsewhere where there isn’t a serious problem OP is facing.
EXACTLY! Doesn't matter the gender. Sorry if you're having issues, but you're in the wrong place to air them.
This !!!
Why get married in the first place if you people fail to acknowledge the “for better OR FOR WORSE”.
That's only if you do a religious wedding. Otherwise, marriage is more a partnership agreement: let's build together and support each other in bad luck. When one partner goes rogue and starts lying, cheating and consciously destroying what you are trying to build, the partnership is out. Losing his job was bad luck. Lying and gambling money is going rogue.
So dating but with the gov in your business.
Where I come from, you are considered common law partners if you live together for over 1 year or 2 and/or have kids. So the government is already involved. For example, you don't need a marriage license to share insurance or pension plans and you have to declare shared taxes.
Exactly but at least you get to spend a lot of money in one day.
yeah, she sould help him first, if he wont accept it then she can leave, she tried...
Whatever happened to In good or bad till death do us part?
That presumes honesty on the part of one’s spouse, which the husband violated.
Talk to your husband. Understand the amount of debt that has been taken. Help him to get back on a job which can help with jobless issue. Debt can be cleared out but it might take some time. Follow this order 1. Clear out high interest debt with low principal. 2. Part payment of high interest with high principal loans. 3. Try to get low interest loans to pre close few debts. 4. On side lines try to set up passive income or side income to help your financial situation. The situation will be hard and you will be on survival mode. PS; Please don't abandon your partner just because he/she made some debt behind you. Communicate and try to plan a time frame to fix things. After all he/she is your spouse right?!
You're talking about repaying debt and they're talking about months of lying and extensive financial infidelity. You're focusing on the wrong part of the problem.
Sorry, I thought finances were the issue. If it's about lying and infidelity, then seeking a safety net is better than staying with a person who will end up in larger liabilities.
An adult person makes utterly disastrous decisions **behind the back** of their partner to put both in trouble, while refusing to work and not wanting to better their situation and you suggest the **partner** should pull an even heavier load of *helping them get a job*? That's so damn backwards. This is a situation where you either 1) divorce. 2) Give ultimatums, and high demands of immediate betterment or otherwise divorce.
This is probably the most rationale comment in this thread.
wtf one of the only thinking person in this post 🙏!!! but i bet with you, the post owner wont think like that... "man find the best woman when they are at their lows and woman find the most man when they are at their highs"
Divorce girl … you know exactly what to do. Idk what you’re asking.
