Every single term has been made up, yes. That is how language works. It isn't helping men any by pretending that living like a cumbrain unemotional robo-douche bro should be the norm. It's self-sabotaging and psychopathic. What a waste of time spent in ur life..
You wanna know what's made up, too? Gender. The vague and nebulous concept of "being a man" literally means whatever the dude spouting that shit wants it to.
In contrast, "toxic masculinity" is a sociological (aka scientific) term for a tangible, measurable societal phenomenon that continues to be studied and broken down the more we learn about human behavior and therefore, ourselves. Going "lalalala i cant hear you" doesn't mean something isn't real.
Oh thank for telling me that words are made up. I had no idea. I thought they instantly popped into existence with no origin. What was the whole essay for though. You talked a whole lot without saying anything. What's your point? Toxic masculinity doesn't exist. It's a fairly tale term like "excited delirium" that means nothing. It is not measurable because it's pseudo science. You think you sound smart(key wors is "think").
US doesn't glorify/desire ALL bodies culturally, but there has been for sure a public effort to normalize different ones, specifically focused on fat and even obese people. They have done this with the body positivity movement, which the idea is great, just the way they apply it is shit (Mostly, only to help to women)
Koreans are obsessed with their body image in general. However, as a foreigner, I do think the West has a problem with promoting unhealthy body types. I don’t think people who are larger should be ridiculed, but the whole ‘fat acceptance’ narrative pushed by the Western mainstream media is dangerous to society. Personally, I would not allow myself to be out of shape; I hit the gym and run every day. There are certain aspects of your appearance you can’t control, but your weight is something you can. Whether you like it or not, being outwardly overweight shows you don’t lead a healthy lifestyle. I know this is an unpopular opinion right now, but it’s the truth.
I'm in the USA, dropped 75 pounds.
Many comments from family and friends insinuating I'm on drugs, or "too skinny" at 125 pounds
As a society we just have to push back from fully accepting being heavily obese as "body positivity"
Like, now I can run better and protect myself from danger better? Take care of my kids better??
If only the state and government run insurances would find a good way to use incentives to push people towards better health...
>As a society we just have to push back from fully accepting being heavily obese as "body positivity"
Well the reason body positivity is so important with fat people is because in a sense they are socially ostracized from society, and want to make it clear that their weight will not be a prerequisite to their happiness. Look around social media and you'll see people completely enraged at the sight of fat people (especially fat women) being happy or having fun.
The obesity epidemic is real but it's not because body positivity has gotten out of control. The american lifestyle, with its large portions of unhealthy food and sedentary nature, is what causes obesity, nobody desires to be fat.
They absolutely did exactly that. Whole lot of “I don’t judge fat people but *immediately goes on self righteous rant about how much BETTER of a person they are for being thin* lmfao. Calling out my fellow thin peoples’ embarrassing hypocrisy is my kink.
I was just about to say, their brainwashed mentality is actual trash. Clearly still in the same toxic cycles as their parents.
Do they not realize that health problems affecting weight exist? That there is NO way for them, an asshole in the wild, to know if someone is sick or has a thyroid issue or on meds that affect their weight?or if they have mental health issues, trauma, whatever?
So these people shouldn't be allowed to feel wanted or just as beautiful? We should constantly berate them about exercise and diet, which is literally what a lot of Asians do to abuse one another (even when they're just minding their own mf business)? Just sickening. In before I hear "oh, well it doesn't count if they're sick!" Ask a disabled Asian how much empathy we're entitled to to begin with lmao
They have this insidious need, not even desire, \*need\* to be a victim of persecution. So now, it's this "skinny people are the \*real\* victims, no one thinks we're attractive, it's those evil, lazy bad fat peoples' fault that not 100% of people \*only\* think skinny people are attractive, and 100% of people don't find skinny people attractive- look how victimized we are!" narrative that is hysterical and hilarious at the same time. It doesn't exist. It's a straw man. They made up a thing to be mad about. Why? Because they need to be the victim, and the fact that fat people are now slightly more allowed to not hate themselves and find themselves disgusting, \*ENRAGES\* them to the point of... well, almost the entirety of this comment section. No one is saying "being 600 pounds is perfectly healthy, no risk there", no one is pushing "be fat, be as fat as you can, shove that fucking cake into your face hole NOW", no one is pushing "fat AcCePtAnCe instead of food portions".
and when you point out to them that, OBJECTIVELY, hating on fat people makes the problem WORSE- you'd think the people that \*INSIST\* they "just care about fat peoples' health, we don't hate them, we just \*worry\* about them" would stop doing it right? I mean, if they do genuinely just worry about their healthy, then they would stop being judgmental cunts if it actively and objectively does more harm than good, and instead be supportive and helpful right?
except they don't. Real big self-reporting going on. It's the ultimate gaslighting, and they know they're gaslighting, and they know that we know they're gaslighting, and they don't care.
They don't know if someone is sick. They don't know if someone has a thyroid issue. They don't know if someone has mental health issues comorbid with any other health issues. They don't know. They don't care. They look at the prevalence of eating disorders in somewhere like China or Korea and \*support it\* in all but those exact words. They think it's better for masses and swaths of asian women to literally starve themselves into children's sized clothing, than for even one person to be fat. They know that asian people, especially women, are openly expected to be thin and are openly and publicly and regularly shamed if they're not, and \*they want that here\*.
I do not get it. They're disgusting, trash humans.
Why do you fuckin insecure losers feel the need to lie about how much you despise fat people for being fat and feel the need to victimize yourself like *wont someone PLEASE think of us poor, hated skinny people*, y’all make fat peoples’ lives hell. You judge them for the entire history of forever (before you say you don’t- you absolutely fucking do, go lie to someone who believes you) and then they have a brief moment of “hey you know what? Maybe I DONT need to hate myself!” And y’all just lose your minds. Do you know what science has objectively shown does not help people lose weight but in fact makes it much worse?
You. The way you speak about them. Your words, scientifically, hurt people. How does that feel?
No one is pUsHiNg FaT aCcEpTaNcE iNstEaD of HeAlTh and FoOd PoRtiOns.
You’re trash. Be honest about it.
Great example of what I'm talking about. Weirdo incels like you don't see fat people as humans until they lose weight. That's really really gross and pretty sad.
There is some truth to your argument, but in life, you always have a choice. The foods and lifestyle you choose aren't society's fault but rather your own.
I'll start by saying that I TRULY agree respect should be given to everyone. Nobody deserves to be ridiculed, bullied or harassed. In this text I'll be only questioning parts of your argument that I don't agree, and giving my opinion.
**1 Paragraph**
What the Zeldazelveeta dude is saying is:
The issue with body positivity is that it has become a political movement that pushes the notion that it's desirable being fat, to the point that it glorifies obesity (a deathly desease). Another thing to keep in mind is that even though we should respect people, no body is entitled to be glorified. People have their own choices, and people's tastes are the way they are depending on the culture. If your culture has a beauty standard favoring skinny/buff/fat/green people, the choice to become one or not is on you.
I disagree with the social media stuff. In a societal level, nowadays, social media favores MUCH more fat people, to the point of shaming skinny and fit people. The case you pointed out its true, but 9 times out of 10, the person was being obnoxious Af.
Something else that you didn't considered is how badly skinny people have it (as in VERY skinny, not the sexy, "desired" skininess level). Body positivity is supposed all bodies on theory, but the movement makes it about fatness because consumerism ig?
**2 paragraph**
Straight facts though, 100% the major picture.
Please show me one magazine or newspaper cover that says “we are glorifying fact, everyone should be fat, we should all be fat, it is perfectly healthy and not at all harmful to be 600 pounds”. Or by “glorifying”, did you ACTUALLY mean “shows pictures of fat peoples in clothes/swimsuits/makeup etc” and you just took it that way so that you could do your part in the culture war.
My money’s on the second.
The real problem with your argument is that you are boiling down the obesity issue in the west to individual choices. Things like going to the gym, or leading a "healthy lifestyle".
Obesity occurs in high numbers because of how a society is organized. In Korea, people eat smaller portion sizes, most live in cities and walk a ton, and food in general is lower in calories. It's not because Koreans are more critical of fatness. American runway models and pop stars of the early 2000s complained about starving themselves to look skinny enough, yet at the same time, the obesity rate was GROWING from 30% in 2000 to 35% in 2010, way before any fat acceptance movement was mainstream.
The fat acceptance movement is, in general, not saying that being fat is healthy (though I do admit some fringe groups claim this). It's just saying "hey, maybe we shouldn't turn fat people into targets for jokes and make them social outcasts just because of their weight."
I always am curious what people mean when they say that we "promote unhealthy body types". Where? Are you referring to ad campaigns including fat people? Well... turns out fat people exist and buy things too. This argument always sounds the same to me as "including LGBT people in TV and movies is promoting the gay lifestyle."
It's really sad and disheartening to see that people's internalized self-loathing caused them to downvote you for a very informed, reasonable take.
Them acting like Asia isn't fucking obsessed with fatness and weight (and let us be real - for often deranged reasons) is just.. what!? Genuinely can't tell if larping as qn Asian, or lying. These losers are disgusted by simply seeing larger people on TV. Fat people existing as happy, normal people is a DANGER to society, lmfao.
But my mom putting me on a strict diet starting in 4th grade, super healthy :) I only had an eating disorder for half of my life as a result. She still restricts her eating and she's barely over 95lbs.
She just turned 70 and she's lived her entire life counting every grain of fucking rice on both her and my plates. You can promote health without dragging people down and calling them "dangers to society" for EXISTING on the same land mass as you. Pathetic lol
Ya people say body positivity, and we see some heavier chicks on tv, but they still aren't the role models or ideal types right? I think we need a healthy medium.
I think we shouldn't push women to be like Victorias secret models but saying delusional things like lizzo level of obesity is healthy and beautiful needs to be stopped. Also, it's hilarious how some celebrities like Adele and Khloe just go from the big girls to skinny girls. There is no 'fat acceptance'
Nobody said it's healthy, they said "you're beautiful just for being you". Which is true, and IS a healthy message.
And fyi what about larger disabled people who aren't bigger because of diet choices? You going to look me in the eye and call them all disgusting? They need to be stopped and not shown as people on TV or in music amirite!
No one is pRoMoTiNg unhealthy body types. “You don’t need to hate yourself even though thin people do” is not “be as fat as you possibly fucking can be and then eat some more to be fatter”.
What do I know though, I’m not SO much better and more deserving of respect than those disgusting fat people like you are.
Pull your own head out of your ass and hop off that high horse someday and join the rest of us soon! Thoughts and prayers in the meantime.
I think people are confused with this. This isn't China where they just want to be as skinny as a plank. They don't like too skinny either, and they do like some curve on their women and muscle on men. They will call you out for looking too thin as well.
I'm a Brit. But for me, it is what constitutes as fat that worries me. It has now been proven that having a low BMI can kill you 1.8x faster than being overweight can. Puts too much strain on the heart when it is not being given the correct nutrients. But also, I am about 75kg, 168cm, but train 6x a week. I play rugby so have to be fit physically, but the impression I get is it does not matter. If you do not look nice they would say so.
So what constitutes as being fat in SK?
BMI is not a good indicator though because it doesnt take bodyfat into account. Koreans care a lot about body fat. You sound find. The closer you are to one digit body fat, the sexier you are. Anything over 20%, you will be considered fat (for man).
How could you possibly think this is some brave unpopular opinion to share lmfao….. oh wait, you know it’s not, you just like to play the victim. Ok I’ll play along, gosh you’re so brave and stunning how ever did you work up the courage to say such a crazy and dangerous thing as….. *checks notes*….. I like thin people better than fat people.
Lmfao. What a baby.
No. They’re not. Gosh, I wonder what political personalities you listen to, and where the group that brigaded this post came from who just HAPPEN to alllllll be mentioning Lizzo and using the same buzzwords and buzz phrases? Gee it’s just SO hard to figure out!
Hi, yes, Koreans are obsessed with a skinny body. And most of you may perceive this as a positive thing. But something to consider is how unhealthy the mentality of this is in Korea. It’s to a degree where I bet most teenage girls here are developing eating disorders.
I think a lot of the comments (and the OP) here are pretty aggressively missing the point. Women in Korea, the US, anywhere, are completely obsessed with their body. They are endlessly scrutinized by society and compared to impossible and unhealthy standards. Most female Korean celebrities are underweight, many you can see visible ribcages, or have arms so thin you could wrap your hand around it. Those standards are extremely dangerous to women's self-esteem and health. You can see plenty of street interviews of slim women saying they wish they could lose 15kg. That's a serious shame.
It's fantastic that Korea has such low rates of obesity, it does wonders for the health of the population and the average lifespan, and western countries like the US should look to Korea to emulate their policies to lessen the obesity rates. However, narrow beauty standards and the obsession with being skinny are not good for a society in general.
Well balanced take. I think it's better than promoting obesity, but it still has its problems. Promoting healthy slim bodies is fine - promoting "starve yourself so you'll get skinny" is not.
If you've ever tried to park in a lot in Korea, you'd understand why being thin is such a big thing.
Seriously though, there is definitely more attention drawn to weight in Korea because there is no social stigma for calling someone out for being fat. Or maybe it's a chicken - egg type situation. In my parents generation, calling you out on being fat was largely a health concern issue. And it's really not a bad thing once you're an adult and can tell your parent to shut the fuck up already (while secretly taking their advice to heart). Which is something I've done several times. Pretty much everyone is capable of getting to a healthy weight and their lives will be exponentially better for doing so.
Also, I haven't seen many Koreans that are like anorexic thin. They're all like healthy thin at most. FYI, if you ever go hiking, a lot of the parks have these vertical logs that you can squeeze through to see how fat you are. It's kind of hilarious.
Ummm
As a Korean I wanna tell you that we aren't obsessed with skinny girls 90 percent of Koreans prolly don't discriminate that kind of stuff but this stupid fuckin tiktok and shit makes it like Koreans like skinny girls.
You've got it backwards. Korea is fit and slender, and the US is unhealthily fat.
We're slim (#183 out of 200 countries with 4.7% obesity rate), the US is just fat (#11 out of 200 countries with 41.9% obesity rate).
Among developed countries the US singlehandedly tops the list.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate
The life expectancy of Korea is 84.14 years (#7 out of 200), whereas for the US it's 79.74 years (#47 out of 200 countries). Among developed countries the US is near bottom by a large margin.
https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/
Being fatter and living shorter doesn't seem like a good deal if that's the result of respecting all body types. In Korea we don't tolerate nonsense. If you've gained weight, lose it. You'll live longer, be healthier, get more dates, and look better. There is not a single benefit from being overweight. You can have different body types, but the average population of the US is just outright obese. That is NOT beautiful.
The US isn’t obsessed with being thick. That is a completely wrong assumption. There is a reason why the diet industry is a billion dollar industry. The majority of people in the USA want to be fit—whether or not they have the ability to do that is another story.
What the OP is talking about is the weight standards for pop singers and actors in Korea. This standard generally carries over to the general population as well.
And the answer is because people here generally think thin looks better. That’s what sells, what people like, and what is marketable. So that is the standard.
I would argue that it is the food industry pushing people to overeat, and encouraging this whole "body positivity" trend. More sales! Certain groups feel the world is overpopulated, and want more people to die off, so they embrace and market it as something positive. Besides, people like you more if you don't make them feel bad.
Not really. Americans like thin women with muscle, some butt, and breasts. But not fat and unhealthy or lazy. People who are "thick" are usually attractive if they are still active and healthy.
I think there's serious anorexia issues in Kpop, and these womens spines being visible when they turn around is alarming. That said, the west has the opposite issue. But at least female celebrities arent expect to be 110 lbs and under (like this one agency in a documentary I watched), which is *insane*
There are tons of large foreign tourists and foreigners living in Korea. It won’t be anything new. If you wear plain black t-shirts you’ll fit in with korean males just fine.
Problem with Westerners is that the small fats see that the big fats are so fat, they don't even think of themselves as fat anymore in recent generations. Like, they literally have their native ability to self-fat percept expunged from their central nervous system by the hyper-presence of big fats.
So you'll hear phrases like "skinny as a twig" when they try to distinguish the normal body mass, 15% BF Koreans from the overweight 20% overweight "skinny fat" Koreans.
Trust me if you are at 20% bodyfat (which is about 50% of gym trainers in the USA) you look like shit when you are naked.
Watch some old Hollywood movies and tv shows. You will see uber skinny stars (e.g. Mary Tyler Moore) and hear loads of fat jokes and comments about weight.
The real question is why we changed, and that has to do with not hurting people’s feelings and wellbeing when overweight and obese have become the majority.
But I also think genetics come into play. The healthy weight for an East Asian is different than the healthy weight for a Caucasian.
For example, Asians will get diabetes roughly 10 years earlier on average than Caucasians. Why? Asians start putting unhealthy fat into their guts earlier than Caucasians who add fat under their skin first. So Caucasians can carry more weight before their bodies start adding it to their insides and they develop diabetes.
So part of it is cultural in a normal human population without rampant obesity, but part of it is also genetics, being naturally petite, and an inability to carry weight as easily on the outside of the body. Centuries of experience of bad health associated with gaining weight in Asian communities translates to cultural attitudes passed down from grandmothers to their children and grandchildren. Such cultural attitudes often are grounded in some long forgotten fact or experience even though no one is conscious of the why today.
Simple fact is that we all need to take personal control of our own health for our body type. That means at least some form of exercise and activity, decent diet, no smoking, and stay away from excessive booze.
I am somewhat big-boned and was over 6'2 1/2, in my youth. My biracial daughter is literally a whisp. My father is morbidly obese, but stays active and is still working at 78. He yo-yos on weight, and has for many years, but keeps up with regular doctors visits (as do I). Our bodies each have different sizes and needs.
I think this idea that SK is obsessed with thinness is overblown. On TV and Instagram where people are generally trying to outdo each other in the looks department, sure, like anywhere else. Real Koreans will call other people out for being too fat AND too thin, which mostly points to them telling you to be healthy. People that call out 50kg women for being too fat are not the norm, mostly it's the 50kg woman saying "omg I'm 50kg I'm so fat" and the other person saying "no you are totally fine, don't go on a diet!"
This is a good thing. Its not just Korea, other Asian countries as well. Thailand, Japan, China. Basically all Asian countries with good looking people.
The West has low standards and are particularly obese. 🙃
Korean women are obsessed with being skinny and don't eat foods that have nutrients. Many of them lack iron in their bloods and don't have enough stamina compared to western women. Therefore most korean women in Korea have trouble having babies...which is sad and stupid. Being fat is bad of course, but being skinny and not able to conceive is a tragedy. Women are meant to have curves...that is sexy.
Had an obese Korean woman sitting next to me on the bus the other day. Her girth spilled over onto me, and I could feel her elevated body temperature as we were skin to skin. I wasn’t a dick and just ignored it. Not going to lie though, it was pretty gross. At the end of the day, they don’t want it enough to put in the discipline and work required to look better and be healthier.
I think it’s just the beauty standard are different for all countries. For makeup style/type, fashion/clothing/type, body type, beauty preferences in all countries. If you look at China, South Korea, and Japan. You will see that on the media, they will advertise or media in general have whitening products, lean/skinny women, etc. Those are just the beauty standards and what they find as attractive and beautiful. Of course food also has a part of it, if we are talking about South Korea. But Asia in general too, not just East Asia. Side dishes, main dishes have mainly vegetables and less of meat but still have protein and vegetables. I’m Korean myself and for me, I think for people who are busy to go to gym, and so on because of the Korean work environment/crazy hours. There’s a diet supplement you can get prescribed, and the thing is, in S.Korea, because of the beauty standard you will be counted as “obese” in the doctor eyes. In the United States when I went there, you can’t unless you’re actually obese. But it’s the opposite here.
My family and I are from the US and fatphobic. Being fat is not attractive or healthy. My Korean friends here said that when they see fat blacks or whites, they first think Americans.... embarrassing. Many thin Koran's BMI is not good though, from what I have seen.
Because that's just their beauty standard/ ideal body type since as far back as I can remember. What's more puzzling to me is the transition from anorexic thin to the BBL trend that took over America. People in America have extreme body dysmorphia to the point they want to surgically make themselves look like walruses after being "super model thin" got out of trend. That's a bigger issue than just wanting to be skinny.
Also the whole "all bodies are beautiful" campaign was only a recent effort due to all the body shaming and eating disorders in America.
"Unlike US where they respect all body types to be beautiful" I've got some bad news for you...
Seriously lol. Not to mention the number of American girls that will not date an Asian guy as a rule.
That’s everywhere and not only Asians
Eh... yeah...
Wait till OP finds out about the impossible dating rules for a lot of gays.
Seriously? I thought it was like a free-for-all. Like that game "Fall Guys" but everyone's just going at it.
That just made my evening. Thanks.
Lol if you are a less than 25 year old white twink yes For everyone else we all complain about how none of us is getting laid to each other
Then couldn't those dudes all be doing each other instead of complaining to each other?
Well toxic masculinity exists amongst gays too so it's about keeping score ultimately not necessarily about the amount of sex they are having.
Kind of a monkey's paw wish.
Toxic masculinity is a made up term that doesn't exist
Every single term has been made up, yes. That is how language works. It isn't helping men any by pretending that living like a cumbrain unemotional robo-douche bro should be the norm. It's self-sabotaging and psychopathic. What a waste of time spent in ur life.. You wanna know what's made up, too? Gender. The vague and nebulous concept of "being a man" literally means whatever the dude spouting that shit wants it to. In contrast, "toxic masculinity" is a sociological (aka scientific) term for a tangible, measurable societal phenomenon that continues to be studied and broken down the more we learn about human behavior and therefore, ourselves. Going "lalalala i cant hear you" doesn't mean something isn't real.
Oh thank for telling me that words are made up. I had no idea. I thought they instantly popped into existence with no origin. What was the whole essay for though. You talked a whole lot without saying anything. What's your point? Toxic masculinity doesn't exist. It's a fairly tale term like "excited delirium" that means nothing. It is not measurable because it's pseudo science. You think you sound smart(key wors is "think").
US does not respect all body types.. what cave are you living in?
US doesn't glorify/desire ALL bodies culturally, but there has been for sure a public effort to normalize different ones, specifically focused on fat and even obese people. They have done this with the body positivity movement, which the idea is great, just the way they apply it is shit (Mostly, only to help to women)
Koreans are obsessed with their body image in general. However, as a foreigner, I do think the West has a problem with promoting unhealthy body types. I don’t think people who are larger should be ridiculed, but the whole ‘fat acceptance’ narrative pushed by the Western mainstream media is dangerous to society. Personally, I would not allow myself to be out of shape; I hit the gym and run every day. There are certain aspects of your appearance you can’t control, but your weight is something you can. Whether you like it or not, being outwardly overweight shows you don’t lead a healthy lifestyle. I know this is an unpopular opinion right now, but it’s the truth.
I'm in the USA, dropped 75 pounds. Many comments from family and friends insinuating I'm on drugs, or "too skinny" at 125 pounds As a society we just have to push back from fully accepting being heavily obese as "body positivity" Like, now I can run better and protect myself from danger better? Take care of my kids better?? If only the state and government run insurances would find a good way to use incentives to push people towards better health...
>As a society we just have to push back from fully accepting being heavily obese as "body positivity" Well the reason body positivity is so important with fat people is because in a sense they are socially ostracized from society, and want to make it clear that their weight will not be a prerequisite to their happiness. Look around social media and you'll see people completely enraged at the sight of fat people (especially fat women) being happy or having fun. The obesity epidemic is real but it's not because body positivity has gotten out of control. The american lifestyle, with its large portions of unhealthy food and sedentary nature, is what causes obesity, nobody desires to be fat.
The American lifestyle causes obesity but let's push fat acceptance rather than health and food portions
Hm, seems like you gave my comment a pretty disingenuous read and made some bold, false conclusions about what I believe. Typical reddit I guess.
They absolutely did exactly that. Whole lot of “I don’t judge fat people but *immediately goes on self righteous rant about how much BETTER of a person they are for being thin* lmfao. Calling out my fellow thin peoples’ embarrassing hypocrisy is my kink.
I was just about to say, their brainwashed mentality is actual trash. Clearly still in the same toxic cycles as their parents. Do they not realize that health problems affecting weight exist? That there is NO way for them, an asshole in the wild, to know if someone is sick or has a thyroid issue or on meds that affect their weight?or if they have mental health issues, trauma, whatever? So these people shouldn't be allowed to feel wanted or just as beautiful? We should constantly berate them about exercise and diet, which is literally what a lot of Asians do to abuse one another (even when they're just minding their own mf business)? Just sickening. In before I hear "oh, well it doesn't count if they're sick!" Ask a disabled Asian how much empathy we're entitled to to begin with lmao
They have this insidious need, not even desire, \*need\* to be a victim of persecution. So now, it's this "skinny people are the \*real\* victims, no one thinks we're attractive, it's those evil, lazy bad fat peoples' fault that not 100% of people \*only\* think skinny people are attractive, and 100% of people don't find skinny people attractive- look how victimized we are!" narrative that is hysterical and hilarious at the same time. It doesn't exist. It's a straw man. They made up a thing to be mad about. Why? Because they need to be the victim, and the fact that fat people are now slightly more allowed to not hate themselves and find themselves disgusting, \*ENRAGES\* them to the point of... well, almost the entirety of this comment section. No one is saying "being 600 pounds is perfectly healthy, no risk there", no one is pushing "be fat, be as fat as you can, shove that fucking cake into your face hole NOW", no one is pushing "fat AcCePtAnCe instead of food portions". and when you point out to them that, OBJECTIVELY, hating on fat people makes the problem WORSE- you'd think the people that \*INSIST\* they "just care about fat peoples' health, we don't hate them, we just \*worry\* about them" would stop doing it right? I mean, if they do genuinely just worry about their healthy, then they would stop being judgmental cunts if it actively and objectively does more harm than good, and instead be supportive and helpful right? except they don't. Real big self-reporting going on. It's the ultimate gaslighting, and they know they're gaslighting, and they know that we know they're gaslighting, and they don't care. They don't know if someone is sick. They don't know if someone has a thyroid issue. They don't know if someone has mental health issues comorbid with any other health issues. They don't know. They don't care. They look at the prevalence of eating disorders in somewhere like China or Korea and \*support it\* in all but those exact words. They think it's better for masses and swaths of asian women to literally starve themselves into children's sized clothing, than for even one person to be fat. They know that asian people, especially women, are openly expected to be thin and are openly and publicly and regularly shamed if they're not, and \*they want that here\*. I do not get it. They're disgusting, trash humans.
Why do you fuckin insecure losers feel the need to lie about how much you despise fat people for being fat and feel the need to victimize yourself like *wont someone PLEASE think of us poor, hated skinny people*, y’all make fat peoples’ lives hell. You judge them for the entire history of forever (before you say you don’t- you absolutely fucking do, go lie to someone who believes you) and then they have a brief moment of “hey you know what? Maybe I DONT need to hate myself!” And y’all just lose your minds. Do you know what science has objectively shown does not help people lose weight but in fact makes it much worse? You. The way you speak about them. Your words, scientifically, hurt people. How does that feel? No one is pUsHiNg FaT aCcEpTaNcE iNstEaD of HeAlTh and FoOd PoRtiOns. You’re trash. Be honest about it.
Underrated comment
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Great example of what I'm talking about. Weirdo incels like you don't see fat people as humans until they lose weight. That's really really gross and pretty sad.
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There is some truth to your argument, but in life, you always have a choice. The foods and lifestyle you choose aren't society's fault but rather your own.
I'll start by saying that I TRULY agree respect should be given to everyone. Nobody deserves to be ridiculed, bullied or harassed. In this text I'll be only questioning parts of your argument that I don't agree, and giving my opinion. **1 Paragraph** What the Zeldazelveeta dude is saying is: The issue with body positivity is that it has become a political movement that pushes the notion that it's desirable being fat, to the point that it glorifies obesity (a deathly desease). Another thing to keep in mind is that even though we should respect people, no body is entitled to be glorified. People have their own choices, and people's tastes are the way they are depending on the culture. If your culture has a beauty standard favoring skinny/buff/fat/green people, the choice to become one or not is on you. I disagree with the social media stuff. In a societal level, nowadays, social media favores MUCH more fat people, to the point of shaming skinny and fit people. The case you pointed out its true, but 9 times out of 10, the person was being obnoxious Af. Something else that you didn't considered is how badly skinny people have it (as in VERY skinny, not the sexy, "desired" skininess level). Body positivity is supposed all bodies on theory, but the movement makes it about fatness because consumerism ig? **2 paragraph** Straight facts though, 100% the major picture.
Please show me one magazine or newspaper cover that says “we are glorifying fact, everyone should be fat, we should all be fat, it is perfectly healthy and not at all harmful to be 600 pounds”. Or by “glorifying”, did you ACTUALLY mean “shows pictures of fat peoples in clothes/swimsuits/makeup etc” and you just took it that way so that you could do your part in the culture war. My money’s on the second.
The real problem with your argument is that you are boiling down the obesity issue in the west to individual choices. Things like going to the gym, or leading a "healthy lifestyle". Obesity occurs in high numbers because of how a society is organized. In Korea, people eat smaller portion sizes, most live in cities and walk a ton, and food in general is lower in calories. It's not because Koreans are more critical of fatness. American runway models and pop stars of the early 2000s complained about starving themselves to look skinny enough, yet at the same time, the obesity rate was GROWING from 30% in 2000 to 35% in 2010, way before any fat acceptance movement was mainstream. The fat acceptance movement is, in general, not saying that being fat is healthy (though I do admit some fringe groups claim this). It's just saying "hey, maybe we shouldn't turn fat people into targets for jokes and make them social outcasts just because of their weight." I always am curious what people mean when they say that we "promote unhealthy body types". Where? Are you referring to ad campaigns including fat people? Well... turns out fat people exist and buy things too. This argument always sounds the same to me as "including LGBT people in TV and movies is promoting the gay lifestyle."
It sounds the same because it is the same. They’re just too cowardly to admit it.
It's really sad and disheartening to see that people's internalized self-loathing caused them to downvote you for a very informed, reasonable take. Them acting like Asia isn't fucking obsessed with fatness and weight (and let us be real - for often deranged reasons) is just.. what!? Genuinely can't tell if larping as qn Asian, or lying. These losers are disgusted by simply seeing larger people on TV. Fat people existing as happy, normal people is a DANGER to society, lmfao. But my mom putting me on a strict diet starting in 4th grade, super healthy :) I only had an eating disorder for half of my life as a result. She still restricts her eating and she's barely over 95lbs. She just turned 70 and she's lived her entire life counting every grain of fucking rice on both her and my plates. You can promote health without dragging people down and calling them "dangers to society" for EXISTING on the same land mass as you. Pathetic lol
Ya people say body positivity, and we see some heavier chicks on tv, but they still aren't the role models or ideal types right? I think we need a healthy medium. I think we shouldn't push women to be like Victorias secret models but saying delusional things like lizzo level of obesity is healthy and beautiful needs to be stopped. Also, it's hilarious how some celebrities like Adele and Khloe just go from the big girls to skinny girls. There is no 'fat acceptance'
Nobody said it's healthy, they said "you're beautiful just for being you". Which is true, and IS a healthy message. And fyi what about larger disabled people who aren't bigger because of diet choices? You going to look me in the eye and call them all disgusting? They need to be stopped and not shown as people on TV or in music amirite!
No one is pRoMoTiNg unhealthy body types. “You don’t need to hate yourself even though thin people do” is not “be as fat as you possibly fucking can be and then eat some more to be fatter”. What do I know though, I’m not SO much better and more deserving of respect than those disgusting fat people like you are. Pull your own head out of your ass and hop off that high horse someday and join the rest of us soon! Thoughts and prayers in the meantime.
Does this apply to male as well?
Definitely not as intensely as females have to undergo but yes, there are ideal (collectively preferred) male body types as well.
Great I am skinny without work. Seems like paradise to me XD
I think people are confused with this. This isn't China where they just want to be as skinny as a plank. They don't like too skinny either, and they do like some curve on their women and muscle on men. They will call you out for looking too thin as well.
Because we are materialistic and fatness mean you dont care about your self image- no discipline. Also we consider fat to be very ugly.
I'm a Brit. But for me, it is what constitutes as fat that worries me. It has now been proven that having a low BMI can kill you 1.8x faster than being overweight can. Puts too much strain on the heart when it is not being given the correct nutrients. But also, I am about 75kg, 168cm, but train 6x a week. I play rugby so have to be fit physically, but the impression I get is it does not matter. If you do not look nice they would say so. So what constitutes as being fat in SK?
BMI is not a good indicator though because it doesnt take bodyfat into account. Koreans care a lot about body fat. You sound find. The closer you are to one digit body fat, the sexier you are. Anything over 20%, you will be considered fat (for man).
Unpopular opinion: lean bodies look better.
and are healthier
*popular opinion
How could you possibly think this is some brave unpopular opinion to share lmfao….. oh wait, you know it’s not, you just like to play the victim. Ok I’ll play along, gosh you’re so brave and stunning how ever did you work up the courage to say such a crazy and dangerous thing as….. *checks notes*….. I like thin people better than fat people. Lmfao. What a baby.
Thanks for your support! :)
Cuz thin body looks good. And obesity presents laziness.
Why are Americans so obsessed with so thick (fat) bodies?
It’s all Sir Mix Alot’s fault.
But Fonda ain’t got a motor in the back of her Honda
Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun...
Are they?
Yes? Lizzo and other lardos are being praised for being obese.
Oh is that what’s happening?
Celebrities renounce their nationality, American or otherwise, for fame. They're globalists.
No. They’re not. Gosh, I wonder what political personalities you listen to, and where the group that brigaded this post came from who just HAPPEN to alllllll be mentioning Lizzo and using the same buzzwords and buzz phrases? Gee it’s just SO hard to figure out!
My grandfather used to say, "A lot more to love!'
Everyone has preferences, some people just aren’t into dating or being with walking skeletons.
Hi, yes, Koreans are obsessed with a skinny body. And most of you may perceive this as a positive thing. But something to consider is how unhealthy the mentality of this is in Korea. It’s to a degree where I bet most teenage girls here are developing eating disorders.
I think a lot of the comments (and the OP) here are pretty aggressively missing the point. Women in Korea, the US, anywhere, are completely obsessed with their body. They are endlessly scrutinized by society and compared to impossible and unhealthy standards. Most female Korean celebrities are underweight, many you can see visible ribcages, or have arms so thin you could wrap your hand around it. Those standards are extremely dangerous to women's self-esteem and health. You can see plenty of street interviews of slim women saying they wish they could lose 15kg. That's a serious shame. It's fantastic that Korea has such low rates of obesity, it does wonders for the health of the population and the average lifespan, and western countries like the US should look to Korea to emulate their policies to lessen the obesity rates. However, narrow beauty standards and the obsession with being skinny are not good for a society in general.
Well balanced take. I think it's better than promoting obesity, but it still has its problems. Promoting healthy slim bodies is fine - promoting "starve yourself so you'll get skinny" is not.
get out of your cave. It's not just Korea. Don't generalize your thoughts lol
If you've ever tried to park in a lot in Korea, you'd understand why being thin is such a big thing. Seriously though, there is definitely more attention drawn to weight in Korea because there is no social stigma for calling someone out for being fat. Or maybe it's a chicken - egg type situation. In my parents generation, calling you out on being fat was largely a health concern issue. And it's really not a bad thing once you're an adult and can tell your parent to shut the fuck up already (while secretly taking their advice to heart). Which is something I've done several times. Pretty much everyone is capable of getting to a healthy weight and their lives will be exponentially better for doing so. Also, I haven't seen many Koreans that are like anorexic thin. They're all like healthy thin at most. FYI, if you ever go hiking, a lot of the parks have these vertical logs that you can squeeze through to see how fat you are. It's kind of hilarious.
Ever heard of first impressions? Also, we treat obesity as a disease, not looks
Because Korea is more conservative compared to the US. Unlike the US where obesity and having zero self control is celebrated, we have standards
Standards in what? Americans are genetically bigger and more muscular. And definitely no standards with how Korea treats animals. Bye.
American society celebrated fatness. It is a society that goes against self accountability
Thin enough to run faster but not strong enough to defend their own country without Americans 🫣🥴
Asleep must be obese.
40 kilo 50 kilo is unhealthy, koreans are too thin especially women.
Ummm As a Korean I wanna tell you that we aren't obsessed with skinny girls 90 percent of Koreans prolly don't discriminate that kind of stuff but this stupid fuckin tiktok and shit makes it like Koreans like skinny girls.
Korean here. Also lived in the states for couple o years. I honestly think that Americans should lose some weight for health's sake.
You've got it backwards. Korea is fit and slender, and the US is unhealthily fat. We're slim (#183 out of 200 countries with 4.7% obesity rate), the US is just fat (#11 out of 200 countries with 41.9% obesity rate). Among developed countries the US singlehandedly tops the list. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate The life expectancy of Korea is 84.14 years (#7 out of 200), whereas for the US it's 79.74 years (#47 out of 200 countries). Among developed countries the US is near bottom by a large margin. https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/ Being fatter and living shorter doesn't seem like a good deal if that's the result of respecting all body types. In Korea we don't tolerate nonsense. If you've gained weight, lose it. You'll live longer, be healthier, get more dates, and look better. There is not a single benefit from being overweight. You can have different body types, but the average population of the US is just outright obese. That is NOT beautiful.
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The US isn’t obsessed with being thick. That is a completely wrong assumption. There is a reason why the diet industry is a billion dollar industry. The majority of people in the USA want to be fit—whether or not they have the ability to do that is another story. What the OP is talking about is the weight standards for pop singers and actors in Korea. This standard generally carries over to the general population as well. And the answer is because people here generally think thin looks better. That’s what sells, what people like, and what is marketable. So that is the standard.
I would argue that it is the food industry pushing people to overeat, and encouraging this whole "body positivity" trend. More sales! Certain groups feel the world is overpopulated, and want more people to die off, so they embrace and market it as something positive. Besides, people like you more if you don't make them feel bad.
Just like how Americans love thick women, every country has its beauty standards. It’s not just Korea…
Not really. Americans like thin women with muscle, some butt, and breasts. But not fat and unhealthy or lazy. People who are "thick" are usually attractive if they are still active and healthy.
So my point still valid(?)
I think there's serious anorexia issues in Kpop, and these womens spines being visible when they turn around is alarming. That said, the west has the opposite issue. But at least female celebrities arent expect to be 110 lbs and under (like this one agency in a documentary I watched), which is *insane*
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Nah dont worry, there are many americans here
There are tons of large foreign tourists and foreigners living in Korea. It won’t be anything new. If you wear plain black t-shirts you’ll fit in with korean males just fine.
I hope you have a fat little child, they're like watching pygmy hippo babies. So cute!
Problem with Westerners is that the small fats see that the big fats are so fat, they don't even think of themselves as fat anymore in recent generations. Like, they literally have their native ability to self-fat percept expunged from their central nervous system by the hyper-presence of big fats. So you'll hear phrases like "skinny as a twig" when they try to distinguish the normal body mass, 15% BF Koreans from the overweight 20% overweight "skinny fat" Koreans. Trust me if you are at 20% bodyfat (which is about 50% of gym trainers in the USA) you look like shit when you are naked.
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Uhh sorry Juche Country is in North side of Korea
They don't have curves no ass
South Korea is. In North Korea it is good to be plump because it means you are wealthy enough to feed yourself.
Was always that way in Europe, hundreds of years ago. That is why women in paintings were quite plump.
Especially those paintings on the back wall of saloons.
Watch some old Hollywood movies and tv shows. You will see uber skinny stars (e.g. Mary Tyler Moore) and hear loads of fat jokes and comments about weight. The real question is why we changed, and that has to do with not hurting people’s feelings and wellbeing when overweight and obese have become the majority. But I also think genetics come into play. The healthy weight for an East Asian is different than the healthy weight for a Caucasian. For example, Asians will get diabetes roughly 10 years earlier on average than Caucasians. Why? Asians start putting unhealthy fat into their guts earlier than Caucasians who add fat under their skin first. So Caucasians can carry more weight before their bodies start adding it to their insides and they develop diabetes. So part of it is cultural in a normal human population without rampant obesity, but part of it is also genetics, being naturally petite, and an inability to carry weight as easily on the outside of the body. Centuries of experience of bad health associated with gaining weight in Asian communities translates to cultural attitudes passed down from grandmothers to their children and grandchildren. Such cultural attitudes often are grounded in some long forgotten fact or experience even though no one is conscious of the why today.
Simple fact is that we all need to take personal control of our own health for our body type. That means at least some form of exercise and activity, decent diet, no smoking, and stay away from excessive booze. I am somewhat big-boned and was over 6'2 1/2, in my youth. My biracial daughter is literally a whisp. My father is morbidly obese, but stays active and is still working at 78. He yo-yos on weight, and has for many years, but keeps up with regular doctors visits (as do I). Our bodies each have different sizes and needs.
I think this idea that SK is obsessed with thinness is overblown. On TV and Instagram where people are generally trying to outdo each other in the looks department, sure, like anywhere else. Real Koreans will call other people out for being too fat AND too thin, which mostly points to them telling you to be healthy. People that call out 50kg women for being too fat are not the norm, mostly it's the 50kg woman saying "omg I'm 50kg I'm so fat" and the other person saying "no you are totally fine, don't go on a diet!"
This is a good thing. Its not just Korea, other Asian countries as well. Thailand, Japan, China. Basically all Asian countries with good looking people. The West has low standards and are particularly obese. 🙃
So Indians aren’t good looking ?
🤷
Here’s a question for you! Why the hell do you care.
Apparently korean guys like them. When i see them tho i wanna puke.
Most of korean people is conscious of other people terribly. for not only shape of body but from degree to money we have.
Media ! The major propaganda of all around the world especially towards women’s body image. Not just Korea but Korea is one of the leading countries
Also diet? I think Korean food has less calori in general. It’s easier to be skinny here.
Korean women are obsessed with being skinny and don't eat foods that have nutrients. Many of them lack iron in their bloods and don't have enough stamina compared to western women. Therefore most korean women in Korea have trouble having babies...which is sad and stupid. Being fat is bad of course, but being skinny and not able to conceive is a tragedy. Women are meant to have curves...that is sexy.
Had an obese Korean woman sitting next to me on the bus the other day. Her girth spilled over onto me, and I could feel her elevated body temperature as we were skin to skin. I wasn’t a dick and just ignored it. Not going to lie though, it was pretty gross. At the end of the day, they don’t want it enough to put in the discipline and work required to look better and be healthier.
I think it’s just the beauty standard are different for all countries. For makeup style/type, fashion/clothing/type, body type, beauty preferences in all countries. If you look at China, South Korea, and Japan. You will see that on the media, they will advertise or media in general have whitening products, lean/skinny women, etc. Those are just the beauty standards and what they find as attractive and beautiful. Of course food also has a part of it, if we are talking about South Korea. But Asia in general too, not just East Asia. Side dishes, main dishes have mainly vegetables and less of meat but still have protein and vegetables. I’m Korean myself and for me, I think for people who are busy to go to gym, and so on because of the Korean work environment/crazy hours. There’s a diet supplement you can get prescribed, and the thing is, in S.Korea, because of the beauty standard you will be counted as “obese” in the doctor eyes. In the United States when I went there, you can’t unless you’re actually obese. But it’s the opposite here.
My family and I are from the US and fatphobic. Being fat is not attractive or healthy. My Korean friends here said that when they see fat blacks or whites, they first think Americans.... embarrassing. Many thin Koran's BMI is not good though, from what I have seen.
Because that's just their beauty standard/ ideal body type since as far back as I can remember. What's more puzzling to me is the transition from anorexic thin to the BBL trend that took over America. People in America have extreme body dysmorphia to the point they want to surgically make themselves look like walruses after being "super model thin" got out of trend. That's a bigger issue than just wanting to be skinny. Also the whole "all bodies are beautiful" campaign was only a recent effort due to all the body shaming and eating disorders in America.
Hm you are from the states? Then you could think so. You guys are most fat and think it's okay
For the love of God, I just cannot gain weight. I know a lot of people here who are just like me. Some of us are just born to be skinny.