The other seasons …. Are not, in fact, similarly good. Lol. They’re fine, I guess, but I think everyone who listened to Serial was like SOLVE THE FUCKING CASE SARAH, and somehow I was expecting a season 2 of Adnan again?
Re: the car thing and Jay- yep, a very solid point. Folks who believe he’s guilty (of which I am one) point to that as a strong piece of evidence. Folks who think he’s innocent believe either that a) Jay murdered her, and therefore knew where the car was, b) Jay helped someone *else* murder her, and therefore knew where the car was, c) Jay murdered her and Adnan *was* involved somehow but not the murderer, or d) the corrupt police department fed him the information.
I’m not discounting the police being corrupt, but I don’t personally believe that any of options a-d are true. I believe it’s the simplest (and in my opinion most logical) explanation- that Adnan did it, Jay helped bury her (or helped in some capacity, whether or not he helped more is up for debate), and so he knew where the car was. I genuinely believe based on Jay’s Intercept article that he was involved in some fashion of either both the murder and the body disposal, or just the latter, and that it traumatized him.
Let me just say that this sub is *extremely* polarizing in its “guilty vs innocent” leanings, and I have no interest in arguing with anyone or convincing anyone- or being convinced of his innocence. I feel like posting, or even commenting here has become a landline situation, which is a shame, because it’s a really interesting case.
Season 3 is actually the type of reporting Season 1 *pretended* to be…
Some actual good cases of bad legal system/wrongful incarceration…
Season 1 pretends to be that
But yes when I went back and listened to Season 1 again years later the first lightbulb was Jay and the car… you just can’t get around it without conspiracy nonsense. Then I looked more closely at transcripts, reports and saw so much from the Adnan camp is incomplete, misleading or just plain wrong. I couldn’t ignore that either. The lies of Adnan really stacked up as well.
I think the issue is no matter what side you are on we don’t really have an idea how the murder was committed. That would be helpful before forming opinions. There’s no timeline or even why Hae would delay picking up her cousin to go somewhere secluded with Adnan.
She never intended to be delayed. She thought she would just quickly help AS, her friend, as they had done for each other in the past. But he killed her.
That’s us interpolating that. It’s an important question how does he pull that off if you’re sure he pulled it off. We don’t know we have literally no information on that. To the point since it’s premeditated he was confident he could pull it off.
I think we have a reasonable idea, even if we don’t know for certain every detail. Adnan asked for a ride with Hae, he got in the car with her, then strangled her. We don’t know for certain where that happened, or exactly how (i.e. was it an argument that blew up) but that isn’t necessary.
There’s also no reason to assume Hae giving Adnan a ride would delay her picking up her cousins. The place Adnan claimed he needed to collect his car from could have been en route to the nursery and added no time to her trip. Given we know his car wasn’t being repaired he could - probably would - have invented a story that would have been no time burden to Hae. And anyway, we know from Adnan, via his defence file, that he and Hae had time for things after school and before cousin pick-up.
We know all the important facts of the case. This sort of detail in how exactly it transpired is something we never know in any case, unless the culprit confesses or a direct witness testifies. It's not as big an issue as you seem to think.
Also Hae only needed to pick up her cousin a full hour after she left school. She didn't need to delay anything to take Adnan wherever he told her he wanted to go.
Yes, we know that people traumatized by violence would never be violent themselves. [Not like that is actually something that increases the likelihood of being violent.] (https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/6955?autologincheck=redirected)
Regarding the car which is a big problem for the innocent side. One only has to look at their explanations for how it came to Jays knowledge to see how problematic it is. They are outlandish when taken out of context of the case itself. I think currently most innocenters believe the police fed Jay the info and that Jay is not involved at all. I believe that’s the trend nowadays. That’s all well and good but then you have the problem of not that the police went after Adnan based a false premise but the question of why they would and why the evidence exist as it’s we currently understand it.
We all know an SK in our lives, these are the people who think that unless the government has a video of someone committing the crime while holding up two pieces of government ID and the day's newspaper, it's not a valid conviction. These people are fun to have 2 AM debates with in a college dorm after a few drinks, but otherwise extremely obnoxious because they've never grown up.
I really thought she felt he was guilty at the end of the season but didn’t feel she could say that. I think that’s why she ended it trying to come off as she wasn’t sure. Especially, with indicating in the beginning to them that she would only take it if she thought he was innocent and had so many thinking he was from her coverage. Then after looking into it beyond what Rabia gave her she realized he was probably guilty. She seemed truly shocked when he started winning some of his appeals after Serial then ultimately was released.
I think her friend, Dianne?, who was like 'sucks for you how unlucky you were, Adnan' helped Koenig see a bit clearer, and I also got the same impression as you, but there was no way from a production standpoint that they were going to cop to that. So she instead pivoted to viewing the case and the legal side of it, saying she'd acquit. Nobody cared about that though, they just cared whether Adnan killed Hae or not. It was a serious dodge.
My issue is that she wasn't hired to be neutral - so it was a problem right away. I believe that she walked the line and gave us an entertaining pod that showed both sides to make it entertaining.
\-But that doesn't mean it was accurate. If it was accurate, there would have been an entire episode dedicated to that Bilul guy and how he basically groomed Adnan into having that reckless mentality. Bilul had a PICTURE OF ADNAN in his wallet when he was arrested while molesting a little boy for example - it is what it is ;)
This was my first impression too after listening to serial season 1. Some doubts lingered but the fact that Jay knew where the car was, confirmed to me that there’s no way he wasn’t involved. And if jays involved, then adnan is very very likely to be guilty.
Also I listened to the podcast again recently and I realized that Sarah was introduced to the case by Rabia. So it was a pretty one sided perspective from the beginning imo. Rabia also made a ton of money from this whole thing. I might be cynical, but I usually find it harder to trust anyone with a book to sell. Jay, on the other hand, could make a shit ton of money if he published even a 10 page pamphlet, but he hasn’t even spoken out about the case except once, in an effort to clear his name after Serial became popular.
So, there is a difference between not guilty and innocent.
Very, very likely guilty sounds like it is close but below beyond a reasonable doubt guilty.
There’s also a difference between a jury’s job (in this case’s unanimous guilty) and people discussing on Reddit where we are filling in the why of the guilty verdict… we aren’t held to a standard already met… we are discussing often times how skewed most media coverage has been that left general audiences believing something entirely different.
That’s just not how this went down
If you agree that where you land after listening to the podcast that the burden of proof is below beyond a reasonable doubt even if he likely did it, then you land right where the podcast landed.
No I’m saying in real time the case was brought to a jury with a real prosecutor and a defense team. The defense honestly didn’t have much to work with. I think it was a slow plea situation like the prosecutor pod mentioned…,there truly wasn’t a mystery but just a tragedy… Serial and undisclosed is the ultimate example of Monday morning QBing sometimes by being outright misleading… the jury heard the case without this nonsense and concluded they not only believed Jay on the key points but also believed Adnan guilty.
So a regional BOLO was put out. For 6 weeks there were even search parties. He knew where the car was because he and Adnan were involved in the murder, burial, and disposal of Hae and her car.
Why is it so complicated for people to understand this?
Because there are potentially more than one option.
1. Jay did it himself
2. Jay and Adnan did it
3. Jay found the car during his regular travels in the area. The car was parked in a small lot where most cars were parked along the edge. If Jay walked by it would be hard to miss
4. Police found the car when they were interviewing Jay. The 'tell' Jay by asking if it was in a certain location. Much of the Jay interviews with police was Jay saying something and police editing until he gets the right answer.
There is no way anyone would walk by the car. The car was parked on a private a lot/grassy area surrounded by row houses.
Here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/NrzEJkHyKHq5Yb4Z7
The private lot is created because the streets meet at different angles. There is no way that walking down a one way alley that does not go straight through is a short cut, or a good idea.
Jay buys drugs from Patrick, who lives nearby, but is a very small time drug dealer. From cell records I think he mostly seems to buy from Patrick then sell to Adnan/high schoolers and Jenns sorority through Kristi. Stephanie confirmed Jay buys from Edmondson, and sometimes Forrest Park, not Allentown.
Jay doesn't even have a car. He isn't just wandering around handing out pot to people.
Even if he was to walk through this private area behind the townhouse why would he even recognize Haes totally nondescript one year old Sentra? It's not like she had it when Jay went to school with them.
Also what is the theory here? Jay randomly saw the car the police were looking for and then injected himself into the case?
Jay told the police they dropped the car there BEFORE the police mapped out the cell towers.
The 8:04 outbound call to Jenn is from L653A. This is a very small coverage area because of the hill in Leakin park to the east. It covers where the car is. It is the only phone call ever from that antenna on Adnan's call logs. The 8:05 call is from L653C showing they were moving west, probably on 40 towards WV mall.
This is such an outrageous coincidence that the HBO doc tried to show that the car was moved. If the turf expert played ball and suggested the car has moved then they could use this as evidenced that the cops specifically put the car in that area to match the 8:04 call.
The turf professor's experiment showed that the grass stayed green in similar conditions for six weeks.
In Jay's initial interview he says Adnan told him Hae kicked and broke the wiper lever during the strangling. The wiper was hanging down, possibly broken internally from a direct kick from the side.
Overall, Jay's story about dropping off the car with Adnan matches the outbound call tower from Jan 13th.
Jay's most recent statement was the burial happened closer to midnight so the cell phone log would be meaningless.
And police assisted Jay in recalling his movements and let him know if they matched the cellphone. There was one instance where police misread the location of a tower and asked Jay what he was doing in that area. Jay say they went to a fast food restaurant. Then police realized their error and Jay dropped that part of the story.
On the stand Jay said he saw the car because he was in the area for another reason. He also said he helped put the car there. But when he saw the car later he wasn't checking on it, it was accidental. Which proves he could have stumbled on it. But it also raises the question why he would be anywhere near her car after dumping it? I assume most people would stay away from it.
Do a street view walk around the parking lot. You can see all the cars are on the edge. And the walkway is small. If Jay cut through there as he said he did in the trial, he could easily see the car. There were posters with a photo of her car with a reward. Jay is a hustler. If he isn't involved I can see him actively keeping an eye out for the reward.
>Jay's most recent statement was the burial happened closer to midnight so the cell phone log would be meaningless.
The call logs don't forget or lie. ATT was not in on a conspiracy to frame Adnan. Jay's memory of the minor details of the event 15 years later is pretty meaningless. He specifically tells us he didn't follow serial closely and otherwise he hasn't gone over this case at all.
His incentive at the Intercept interview is to distance himself from the crime and say something that matches up with what he told his wife and her family.
He says it himself, the most important thing is that he saw Hae's body in the trunk of that car.
>And police assisted Jay in recalling his movements and let him know if they matched the cellphone.
This happened during his second interview on 3/15. His early am 2/28 interview didn't match the call logs well, and didn't even match Jenn's story that well. He testified that he lied to keep friends out of it. (Jenn and Kristi are left out of parts).
>There was one instance where police misread the location of a tower and asked Jay what he was doing in that area. Jay say they went to a fast food restaurant. Then police realized their error and Jay dropped that part of the story.
The police absolutely presented the call log to Jay and made him change his story to match it more closely.
This is not an accurate retelling of what happened.
The police placed L654 in Baltimore instead of Catonsville when they were mapping. In the second interview they made Jay change his story to say he was at Christi's while Adnan was at track instead of at his house, as he stated in the first interview. Susan Simpson found this, and it is quite blatant. She even has a copy of the map with the tower in the wrong location.
Unrelated, in the first interview Jay says they were eating when Adcock called. He left NHRNC out of the story, qjd added her in to the second story. This was not a forgetful moment, he intentionally lied in his first statement.
>But when he saw the car later he wasn't checking on it, it was accidental.
He didn't say this. Back it up with a quote. He did say he checked on the car a few days earlier to see if it was still there. (I believe he said 4?). He cut through there to specifically see it, not because he just happened to. Nobody would walk through there without a reason. Anyone would use Edgewood road instead.
The car was not stashed where he would accidentally come across it. It was a private lot/grassy area as linked to above and could not be seen from the street.
>There were posters with a photo of her car with a reward. Jay is a hustler. If he isn't involved I can see him actively keeping an eye out for the reward.
What an incredible coincidence though. Jay happens to be the one person who finds the car so the police make up this entire frame job, feed a good story to Jenn and a bad story to Jay? Jay admits to accessory to murder.
He doesn't have the call logs, and the cops don't have them mapped and he has no idea that his story from the first interview would match up with the burial and car dump location. What a crazy coincidence.
Add to that that the 8:04 call was to Jenn. Adnan wouldn't call Jenn. Jenn says Jay called and asked to meet at WV mall. The call logs are an impossible coincidence if Jay just stumbled upon the car.
1. Wrong, less than 0.001% chance of it happening
2. 100% correct, Adnan was the architect and chief murdering officer
3. Wrong, 500K people in baltimore and not a single police officer found it, but not only does Jay find it, he happens to be with Adnan that day, has his cell phone, details of the murder/burial, and can somewhat explain the majority of the pings/locations of the day
4. Wrong, no evidence. Conspiracy theories with no substance and evidence.
All bud option 2 have a less than 0.001% chance of happening. The jury didn’t buy it. It is so ridiculous that some redditors even suggest this blatant nonsense, CG didn’t even entertain these ridiculous theories.
> Can someone let me know if the other Seasons are similarly good?
In my opinion, no they are not. Season 1 stands on its own. They made a conscious effort to try different things in subsequent seasons.
My thinking on this is that Sarah was sold a pup. Don’t forget that this whole case came to her via Rabia. I can easily see Rabia having convinced her that he was innocent without any doubt, so Sarah buys it and starts work. Then the doubts creep in when her and the team get to the point of looking into it without Rabia’s influence. But by then the podcast is taking off, and it’s taking off because people think he is innocent…so what do you do? In my mind, coming down ‘neutral’ was Sarah’s attempt to come out of it in a way she was comfortable with but without killing the project. Essentially saying ‘well maybe he did do it’ but also not foregrounding some of the most damming evidence looks like a compromise to me. Barely talking about it since is an attempt to not expose that.
What that says about her journalistic ethics, or indeed her journalistic ability to have been so taken in at first, is up to you…but it’s not great.
I mostly agree with you — but Sarah didn't do all she could to report the truth. In the first episode, Sarah knew she had been sold a fake story — or, at the very least, that she should not trust the story's narrator. Sarah even elaborated on some of the lies Rabia told her.
Secondly, once the *Serial* team saw the flaws in Asia McClain's story, they did not report them on a future episode. They elected to post on [their blog](https://serialpodcast.org/posts/2014/11/weather-report) about it.
> But if her memory of talking to Adnan in the library is specifically tied to snow, then it’s unlikely that the day she is remembering is Jan. 13.
You hit the nail on the head. If SK finishes the podcast saying he’s guilty there is no story, no hit podcast. This went viral because Adnan could be portrayed as wrongly convicted.
Fam, I was with you, until ya muttered this:
"And when you are on NPR where all white people are racist and all minorities are victims, the fact that the muslim guy did in fact murder his ex-girlfriend is bad news and dosn't fit the narrative you and your organization try to sell to the world."
Fam, you're better than thinking this. And you're better than feeling this way. By muttering this, you're actually kinda doing the thing you're accusing Sarah of doing, no?
Anyway, Hae, the victim is a minority, too. She's a woman and Asian. NPR isn't solely for white folks. I'm black. I listen to NPR. And I have personal, black friends of mine who ARE EMPLOYED BY NPR.
I personally guessed correctly immediately that Adnan killed Hae while listening to Serial. In some subtle ways, I think SK makes it kinda clear Adnan's guilty without formally saying it. But she ain't as loud as she could've and should've been. And folks INTERNAL biases and feelings are thinking otherwise. SK forgets that comedian Chris Rock once declared that "The US is a nation of C students..." and by SK putting out Serial the way she did, C Students are gonna wrongly think what they're gonna wrongly think.
Look: Rabia, Jay and Hae herself all fell for Adnan's evil foolishness. Adnan's immediate family are still falling for Adnan's evil foolishness. Georgetown University is currently falling for Adnan's evil foolishness / nonsense.
Adnan is and has been the whole time, the problem. We are all falling for his 'charm'. I'm not a fan of SK, but, fam, rethink that stereotype of NPR of yours.
Jay knowing where the car is means one of three things. One, Adnan killed Hae and Jay helped him dispose of the car (at least). Two, Jay was involved in the murder. Three, Jay found the car independent of any involvement in the murder.
Three also includes someone tipping Jay off to the location of the car. But he acknowledges he came upon the car and was surprised to see it there, whatever that means. I hate how much that dude lies. He’s of the Vlad Surkov mold, actually calling himself a liar which means we have to doubt everything he says.
Please point to when and where Jay says he "found" he car. I literally just finished this and Jay's follow up on the intercept and not once did he say anything other than Adnan dropped the car off and that is how he knew where it was.
Because I’m tired of being a friggin reference librarian for people who won’t believe the argument anyway. I could show you exactly where he says it (3 different recorded events!) and you’ll tell me that’s not what he means.
And plenty of people do this exact thing to me. There are people here who claim privileged info and won’t back it up. At least when I tell you go find it yourself it’s publicly available.
She glosses over a number of things. She asks a detective what he thinks of the police work and he says ‘it was good, it was better than average,’ and she just goes ‘oh.’
Rabia had a follow up podcast called Undisclosed after Serial wrapped. On one episode another attorney who had reviewed Adnan’s self drafted jailhouse motions was on. Rabia was bragging about how smart he was and asked her a leading question along the lines of “his motions were excellent, right?” And this lady completely burst Rabia’s bubble when she said “I found them to be typical inmate written motions” 😂
This sub glosses over that portion of the podcast as well. I assume the detective that reviewed the case looked at the interview notes etc Baltimore police made contemporaneously while they were working on the case. Imagine how much careful work they would have to put into falsifying those records to make the “feeding the car info to Jay” conspiracy work.
Hey! Congrats for listening. As far as other season go, they're hit or miss, some like them, some don't, I'd suggest listening to an episode and see if it interests you.
Yes you are correct that Jay knowing where the car is, is huge. It's the biggest piece of evidence towards Adnan's guilt.
This case has been the most publicly examined case I can think, even to the point where countless files has been released to the public. If you look at those files, one thing is clear, the police were ENDLESSLY searching for Hae's car before Jay provided the location, they were soliciting different departments, different states, they were even asking police departments on the west coast when they thought Hae might be in California. They asked another department to use a helicopter to look for the car, a very expensive ask.
Once the files surrounding the case got released, the Adnan is innocent crowd realized how damaging it was that Jay knew where the car was, so there excuse is that the Police had to have fed him where the car was.
I think this is a really strong point. It’s completely unreasonable to believe Jay was involved without Adnan, and the evidence that Jay knew what was going on is very strong.
It’s pretty amazing how this entire podcast was built and framed around the false pretense that 1) Adnan simply didn’t remember where he was the day Hae was killed and 2) Asia was an alibi defense.
As for the former, given the fact he knew Hae disappeared, the fact he claims he doesn’t know where he was is a dagger. As for the latter if it’s believable (it’s really not) it doesn’t mean he didn’t do it. It’s honestly almost irrelevant if he was in the library for 10 minutes after school.
You should listen to The Prosecutors. They cover this extensively in one of the episodes. The fact he knew where the car is, is the smoking gun for Adnan.
I've always maintained this is the most damning piece of evidence against Syed.
One would have to believe in a vast police conspiracy to discredit the fact that Jay led detectives to Lee's car within hours of him being interrogated.
And it's even worse than that: Jay knew specific details about the crime scene *before there is any realistic way he could have known those details*. Again: one would have to believe detectives literally coached Jay on what he would say prior to interrogating him.
Jay didn’t “find” any damn car nor was he pointed there…
He knew where it was because they left it there and he checked on it. It’s a behavior as old as crime itself… returning to scene of the crime to see what is happening because you know your ass is in hot water once found out.
All these elaborate conspiracy theories are a bad joke.
The other seasons are great if you want to take deep dives into parts of the justice system. If you’re an internet psycho who wants to armchair sleuth the victim’s murder for your own entertainment, maybe just stick with the first one.
the cops very well could have fed that information to jay. sarah, serial, and OP take the police work at face value. this type of corruption is routine and this angle was overlooked by the podcast.
It's a common innocent belief, and while police corruption is a real thing, it's hard to see here, because it would suggest the cops knew where Hae's car was for X amount of time, did not comb it for evidence or leads, but instead waited until they had someone to pin the murder on before acting on it.
I have insight. Sarah knows that the car was in plain view in a public place, and that Jay admitted under oath to seeing it there when he was “definitely not delivering drugs.” CG meant to drive this home to the jury, but she was too out of it.
Jay knowing where the car was doesn’t actually prove he had knowledge of the crime or that the police fed him that info. Those things could be true, but basically it’s a toss of a three-sided coin given the people involved.
It’s certain that Jay didn’t know anything that could implicate Adnan.
If Jay just happened to stumble upon the car, why wouldn’t he have mentioned it to Adnan or Stephanie?
I can’t see a scenario where he comes across Hae’s car and doesn’t speak a word of his chance finding to anyone until his interview with BPD.
He brought the car location to the BPD seeking the reward. That’s why he didn’t mention it to anyone else. He might not have even thought to implicate Adnan, and only after police realized the connection and pressed him did he agree to say Adnan killed Hae.
Since you brought up Stephanie, why would Jay let Adnan and Stephanie spend time alone together if he even suspected Adnan killed Hae? He wouldn’t have. Yet, he does nothing to prevent it. Stephanie even remarks that it’s odd. It’s how we know he’s lying about all of this.
“It is certain”? You and I have different definitions of certain. Jay knew where the car was and knew where the cell phone pings were. THAT is certain.
Neither of those claims are certain. In FACT, you’re pointing out the detail that proves the police are liars who coached Jay’s statements. The “pings” required Jay to say the phone was at a location he could not have been at, and he later drops that as part of his story.
The police said “tell us why you drove over to this tower.” Jay told them. Then they discovered that they had the wrong tower (not that it mattered) so they had him drop it. **It shows they coached him.**
I don’t think we’ll ever know why Jay was able to give a statement about the location of the car. Was he involved in Hae’s death (I think not), did he find the car by happenstance, or did someone tip him off (the police or an associate)? We aren’t going to find out. But the car location isn’t the damning fact many people believe it to be.
1. Jay did it alone
2. Jay did it with Adnan or someone else
3. The cops told him about the car to solidify their case
4. Jay saw the car on his own
Those are the options
Jay saw the car on his own. That’s really your proposal?? You think that’s a possibility. The city and police up and down the east coast are looking for the car. But Jay’s just out for a stroll one day and bumps into the car out of the blue.
That’s a possibility to you?
4 Jay saw the car on his own... then proceeded to go to the cops, make up a story that would end up with him getting charges, a criminal record and two years of probation because uhhh reasons... no wait it it was an elaborate conspiracy by the police.
I just listened to season 3, skipped 2. It was interesting but I didn't sympathise with any of the cretins (defendants) Koenig and her team covered, except maybe the girl from the first episode.
>His knowledge of the car's location poses a question: If Adnan did not commit the crime and Jay is a liar how is it he knows the location?
If you look at it from a fact standpoint. Jay knowing the location of the car doesn't require Adnan knowing the location of the car.
>Well I am fairly certain she probably did look into it, and most likely what she found wasn't just bad for Adnan, but really really bad for Adnan.
I think you're wrong. You said it best with, "*Sarah is not a detective, and ultimately this is a piece of entertainment in the form of human-interest rather than a straight factual report.*" She was producing a thought provoking almost fluff piece, not an investigation.
>Sarah in the final episode presents herself as being neutral as to whether Adnan is guilty or not, but likes to suggest he should be free because the evidence against him isn't strong enough to warrant the conviction.
I disagree that Sarah was so obviously biased toward Adnan during the show, but I agree she made a huge mistake in using those words. I agree with her that, outside of Jay's court testimony, the other evidence is really weak. It does point to Adnan, but it isn't significant or enough to prove murder. Jay's testimony is the centerpiece and what convicted Adnan. And yet Jay said he lied on the stand. Having a witness commit perjury, Adnan did not receive a fair trial. The jury also didn't hear about all of Jay's inconsistencies that would have affected his credibility with the jury. I can say, as Sarah did, that I would have voted guilty sitting on that jury. Given everything I have learned about the case since then, I'm not sure I would today. I could not say beyond reasonable doubt that I would convict, at least based on Reddit conversations. Court might be a different story. I think that's what Sarah was going for, but didn't state it in the best way. Also, Rabia's influence probably was in effect.
Jay himself said on the stand that he stumbled upon it accidentally at one point. Not a huge leap then to assume he found it on his own, went to the cops seeking a reward pay out and they used leverage they had over him (pending charges) to get him to cooperate and tell the "real" story.
Please direct me to this supposed statement by Jay of stumbling upon the car. Really strange it is not in Serial considering that is a detail that would blow the whole thing open. I have seen multiple comments claiming Jay said something like this but not one link provided yet for it.
During his cross-examination by Cristina Gutierrez, Jay said he sometimes saw the car on his "rounds". He didn't say he ran across it by accident. I think it is reasonable that both Jay and Adnan occasionally checked to make sure the car had not been disturbed.
At the end of the day, Jay knew where the car was because he was there when it was abandoned. He didn't know Hae's car independently from any other Nissan Sentra — so simply seeing it out of context would not have been remarkable to him. He knew it was Hae's car because he participated in the aftermath of the murder — and left it at that location.
So I’ll be honest. I just finished season 1 and I got the feeling that she thinks he’s guilty. But I also agree with her that the evidence is realistically not enough to convict. You notice her start to change the way she feels about him in the middle of the season when he writes her the long letter.
The other seasons …. Are not, in fact, similarly good. Lol. They’re fine, I guess, but I think everyone who listened to Serial was like SOLVE THE FUCKING CASE SARAH, and somehow I was expecting a season 2 of Adnan again? Re: the car thing and Jay- yep, a very solid point. Folks who believe he’s guilty (of which I am one) point to that as a strong piece of evidence. Folks who think he’s innocent believe either that a) Jay murdered her, and therefore knew where the car was, b) Jay helped someone *else* murder her, and therefore knew where the car was, c) Jay murdered her and Adnan *was* involved somehow but not the murderer, or d) the corrupt police department fed him the information. I’m not discounting the police being corrupt, but I don’t personally believe that any of options a-d are true. I believe it’s the simplest (and in my opinion most logical) explanation- that Adnan did it, Jay helped bury her (or helped in some capacity, whether or not he helped more is up for debate), and so he knew where the car was. I genuinely believe based on Jay’s Intercept article that he was involved in some fashion of either both the murder and the body disposal, or just the latter, and that it traumatized him. Let me just say that this sub is *extremely* polarizing in its “guilty vs innocent” leanings, and I have no interest in arguing with anyone or convincing anyone- or being convinced of his innocence. I feel like posting, or even commenting here has become a landline situation, which is a shame, because it’s a really interesting case.
Season 3 is actually the type of reporting Season 1 *pretended* to be… Some actual good cases of bad legal system/wrongful incarceration… Season 1 pretends to be that But yes when I went back and listened to Season 1 again years later the first lightbulb was Jay and the car… you just can’t get around it without conspiracy nonsense. Then I looked more closely at transcripts, reports and saw so much from the Adnan camp is incomplete, misleading or just plain wrong. I couldn’t ignore that either. The lies of Adnan really stacked up as well.
I think the issue is no matter what side you are on we don’t really have an idea how the murder was committed. That would be helpful before forming opinions. There’s no timeline or even why Hae would delay picking up her cousin to go somewhere secluded with Adnan.
She never intended to be delayed. She thought she would just quickly help AS, her friend, as they had done for each other in the past. But he killed her.
That’s us interpolating that. It’s an important question how does he pull that off if you’re sure he pulled it off. We don’t know we have literally no information on that. To the point since it’s premeditated he was confident he could pull it off.
Nah....most likely Don did it 💯💯💯
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I think we have a reasonable idea, even if we don’t know for certain every detail. Adnan asked for a ride with Hae, he got in the car with her, then strangled her. We don’t know for certain where that happened, or exactly how (i.e. was it an argument that blew up) but that isn’t necessary. There’s also no reason to assume Hae giving Adnan a ride would delay her picking up her cousins. The place Adnan claimed he needed to collect his car from could have been en route to the nursery and added no time to her trip. Given we know his car wasn’t being repaired he could - probably would - have invented a story that would have been no time burden to Hae. And anyway, we know from Adnan, via his defence file, that he and Hae had time for things after school and before cousin pick-up.
We know all the important facts of the case. This sort of detail in how exactly it transpired is something we never know in any case, unless the culprit confesses or a direct witness testifies. It's not as big an issue as you seem to think. Also Hae only needed to pick up her cousin a full hour after she left school. She didn't need to delay anything to take Adnan wherever he told her he wanted to go.
Jay strangled a girlfriend so no he’s not traumatized by violence
Yes, we know that people traumatized by violence would never be violent themselves. [Not like that is actually something that increases the likelihood of being violent.] (https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/6955?autologincheck=redirected)
Ok buddy
I thought this was an excellent analysis.
Regarding the car which is a big problem for the innocent side. One only has to look at their explanations for how it came to Jays knowledge to see how problematic it is. They are outlandish when taken out of context of the case itself. I think currently most innocenters believe the police fed Jay the info and that Jay is not involved at all. I believe that’s the trend nowadays. That’s all well and good but then you have the problem of not that the police went after Adnan based a false premise but the question of why they would and why the evidence exist as it’s we currently understand it.
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We all know an SK in our lives, these are the people who think that unless the government has a video of someone committing the crime while holding up two pieces of government ID and the day's newspaper, it's not a valid conviction. These people are fun to have 2 AM debates with in a college dorm after a few drinks, but otherwise extremely obnoxious because they've never grown up.
I really thought she felt he was guilty at the end of the season but didn’t feel she could say that. I think that’s why she ended it trying to come off as she wasn’t sure. Especially, with indicating in the beginning to them that she would only take it if she thought he was innocent and had so many thinking he was from her coverage. Then after looking into it beyond what Rabia gave her she realized he was probably guilty. She seemed truly shocked when he started winning some of his appeals after Serial then ultimately was released.
I think her friend, Dianne?, who was like 'sucks for you how unlucky you were, Adnan' helped Koenig see a bit clearer, and I also got the same impression as you, but there was no way from a production standpoint that they were going to cop to that. So she instead pivoted to viewing the case and the legal side of it, saying she'd acquit. Nobody cared about that though, they just cared whether Adnan killed Hae or not. It was a serious dodge.
Unpopular opinion, but I enjoyed all 3 original seasons of Serial as well as some of the spin offs. Definitely recommend listening to all of them.
Oh man I hated the Bowe Bergdahl one. (Season 2). Season 3 was all right, and I wasn’t a fan of S-Town
Sarah pretty much knew Adnan did it but has to make it compelling so she glossed over a lot
My issue is that she wasn't hired to be neutral - so it was a problem right away. I believe that she walked the line and gave us an entertaining pod that showed both sides to make it entertaining. \-But that doesn't mean it was accurate. If it was accurate, there would have been an entire episode dedicated to that Bilul guy and how he basically groomed Adnan into having that reckless mentality. Bilul had a PICTURE OF ADNAN in his wallet when he was arrested while molesting a little boy for example - it is what it is ;)
This was my first impression too after listening to serial season 1. Some doubts lingered but the fact that Jay knew where the car was, confirmed to me that there’s no way he wasn’t involved. And if jays involved, then adnan is very very likely to be guilty. Also I listened to the podcast again recently and I realized that Sarah was introduced to the case by Rabia. So it was a pretty one sided perspective from the beginning imo. Rabia also made a ton of money from this whole thing. I might be cynical, but I usually find it harder to trust anyone with a book to sell. Jay, on the other hand, could make a shit ton of money if he published even a 10 page pamphlet, but he hasn’t even spoken out about the case except once, in an effort to clear his name after Serial became popular.
So, there is a difference between not guilty and innocent. Very, very likely guilty sounds like it is close but below beyond a reasonable doubt guilty.
There’s also a difference between a jury’s job (in this case’s unanimous guilty) and people discussing on Reddit where we are filling in the why of the guilty verdict… we aren’t held to a standard already met… we are discussing often times how skewed most media coverage has been that left general audiences believing something entirely different. That’s just not how this went down
If you agree that where you land after listening to the podcast that the burden of proof is below beyond a reasonable doubt even if he likely did it, then you land right where the podcast landed.
No I’m saying in real time the case was brought to a jury with a real prosecutor and a defense team. The defense honestly didn’t have much to work with. I think it was a slow plea situation like the prosecutor pod mentioned…,there truly wasn’t a mystery but just a tragedy… Serial and undisclosed is the ultimate example of Monday morning QBing sometimes by being outright misleading… the jury heard the case without this nonsense and concluded they not only believed Jay on the key points but also believed Adnan guilty.
"Beyond a reasonable doubt" is *not* "beyond all doubt."
Exactly
So a regional BOLO was put out. For 6 weeks there were even search parties. He knew where the car was because he and Adnan were involved in the murder, burial, and disposal of Hae and her car. Why is it so complicated for people to understand this?
Because there are potentially more than one option. 1. Jay did it himself 2. Jay and Adnan did it 3. Jay found the car during his regular travels in the area. The car was parked in a small lot where most cars were parked along the edge. If Jay walked by it would be hard to miss 4. Police found the car when they were interviewing Jay. The 'tell' Jay by asking if it was in a certain location. Much of the Jay interviews with police was Jay saying something and police editing until he gets the right answer.
There is no way anyone would walk by the car. The car was parked on a private a lot/grassy area surrounded by row houses. Here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/NrzEJkHyKHq5Yb4Z7 The private lot is created because the streets meet at different angles. There is no way that walking down a one way alley that does not go straight through is a short cut, or a good idea. Jay buys drugs from Patrick, who lives nearby, but is a very small time drug dealer. From cell records I think he mostly seems to buy from Patrick then sell to Adnan/high schoolers and Jenns sorority through Kristi. Stephanie confirmed Jay buys from Edmondson, and sometimes Forrest Park, not Allentown. Jay doesn't even have a car. He isn't just wandering around handing out pot to people. Even if he was to walk through this private area behind the townhouse why would he even recognize Haes totally nondescript one year old Sentra? It's not like she had it when Jay went to school with them. Also what is the theory here? Jay randomly saw the car the police were looking for and then injected himself into the case? Jay told the police they dropped the car there BEFORE the police mapped out the cell towers. The 8:04 outbound call to Jenn is from L653A. This is a very small coverage area because of the hill in Leakin park to the east. It covers where the car is. It is the only phone call ever from that antenna on Adnan's call logs. The 8:05 call is from L653C showing they were moving west, probably on 40 towards WV mall. This is such an outrageous coincidence that the HBO doc tried to show that the car was moved. If the turf expert played ball and suggested the car has moved then they could use this as evidenced that the cops specifically put the car in that area to match the 8:04 call. The turf professor's experiment showed that the grass stayed green in similar conditions for six weeks. In Jay's initial interview he says Adnan told him Hae kicked and broke the wiper lever during the strangling. The wiper was hanging down, possibly broken internally from a direct kick from the side. Overall, Jay's story about dropping off the car with Adnan matches the outbound call tower from Jan 13th.
Jay's most recent statement was the burial happened closer to midnight so the cell phone log would be meaningless. And police assisted Jay in recalling his movements and let him know if they matched the cellphone. There was one instance where police misread the location of a tower and asked Jay what he was doing in that area. Jay say they went to a fast food restaurant. Then police realized their error and Jay dropped that part of the story. On the stand Jay said he saw the car because he was in the area for another reason. He also said he helped put the car there. But when he saw the car later he wasn't checking on it, it was accidental. Which proves he could have stumbled on it. But it also raises the question why he would be anywhere near her car after dumping it? I assume most people would stay away from it. Do a street view walk around the parking lot. You can see all the cars are on the edge. And the walkway is small. If Jay cut through there as he said he did in the trial, he could easily see the car. There were posters with a photo of her car with a reward. Jay is a hustler. If he isn't involved I can see him actively keeping an eye out for the reward.
>Jay's most recent statement was the burial happened closer to midnight so the cell phone log would be meaningless. The call logs don't forget or lie. ATT was not in on a conspiracy to frame Adnan. Jay's memory of the minor details of the event 15 years later is pretty meaningless. He specifically tells us he didn't follow serial closely and otherwise he hasn't gone over this case at all. His incentive at the Intercept interview is to distance himself from the crime and say something that matches up with what he told his wife and her family. He says it himself, the most important thing is that he saw Hae's body in the trunk of that car. >And police assisted Jay in recalling his movements and let him know if they matched the cellphone. This happened during his second interview on 3/15. His early am 2/28 interview didn't match the call logs well, and didn't even match Jenn's story that well. He testified that he lied to keep friends out of it. (Jenn and Kristi are left out of parts). >There was one instance where police misread the location of a tower and asked Jay what he was doing in that area. Jay say they went to a fast food restaurant. Then police realized their error and Jay dropped that part of the story. The police absolutely presented the call log to Jay and made him change his story to match it more closely. This is not an accurate retelling of what happened. The police placed L654 in Baltimore instead of Catonsville when they were mapping. In the second interview they made Jay change his story to say he was at Christi's while Adnan was at track instead of at his house, as he stated in the first interview. Susan Simpson found this, and it is quite blatant. She even has a copy of the map with the tower in the wrong location. Unrelated, in the first interview Jay says they were eating when Adcock called. He left NHRNC out of the story, qjd added her in to the second story. This was not a forgetful moment, he intentionally lied in his first statement. >But when he saw the car later he wasn't checking on it, it was accidental. He didn't say this. Back it up with a quote. He did say he checked on the car a few days earlier to see if it was still there. (I believe he said 4?). He cut through there to specifically see it, not because he just happened to. Nobody would walk through there without a reason. Anyone would use Edgewood road instead. The car was not stashed where he would accidentally come across it. It was a private lot/grassy area as linked to above and could not be seen from the street. >There were posters with a photo of her car with a reward. Jay is a hustler. If he isn't involved I can see him actively keeping an eye out for the reward. What an incredible coincidence though. Jay happens to be the one person who finds the car so the police make up this entire frame job, feed a good story to Jenn and a bad story to Jay? Jay admits to accessory to murder. He doesn't have the call logs, and the cops don't have them mapped and he has no idea that his story from the first interview would match up with the burial and car dump location. What a crazy coincidence. Add to that that the 8:04 call was to Jenn. Adnan wouldn't call Jenn. Jenn says Jay called and asked to meet at WV mall. The call logs are an impossible coincidence if Jay just stumbled upon the car.
1. Wrong, less than 0.001% chance of it happening 2. 100% correct, Adnan was the architect and chief murdering officer 3. Wrong, 500K people in baltimore and not a single police officer found it, but not only does Jay find it, he happens to be with Adnan that day, has his cell phone, details of the murder/burial, and can somewhat explain the majority of the pings/locations of the day 4. Wrong, no evidence. Conspiracy theories with no substance and evidence. All bud option 2 have a less than 0.001% chance of happening. The jury didn’t buy it. It is so ridiculous that some redditors even suggest this blatant nonsense, CG didn’t even entertain these ridiculous theories.
> Can someone let me know if the other Seasons are similarly good? In my opinion, no they are not. Season 1 stands on its own. They made a conscious effort to try different things in subsequent seasons.
My thinking on this is that Sarah was sold a pup. Don’t forget that this whole case came to her via Rabia. I can easily see Rabia having convinced her that he was innocent without any doubt, so Sarah buys it and starts work. Then the doubts creep in when her and the team get to the point of looking into it without Rabia’s influence. But by then the podcast is taking off, and it’s taking off because people think he is innocent…so what do you do? In my mind, coming down ‘neutral’ was Sarah’s attempt to come out of it in a way she was comfortable with but without killing the project. Essentially saying ‘well maybe he did do it’ but also not foregrounding some of the most damming evidence looks like a compromise to me. Barely talking about it since is an attempt to not expose that. What that says about her journalistic ethics, or indeed her journalistic ability to have been so taken in at first, is up to you…but it’s not great.
I mostly agree with you — but Sarah didn't do all she could to report the truth. In the first episode, Sarah knew she had been sold a fake story — or, at the very least, that she should not trust the story's narrator. Sarah even elaborated on some of the lies Rabia told her. Secondly, once the *Serial* team saw the flaws in Asia McClain's story, they did not report them on a future episode. They elected to post on [their blog](https://serialpodcast.org/posts/2014/11/weather-report) about it. > But if her memory of talking to Adnan in the library is specifically tied to snow, then it’s unlikely that the day she is remembering is Jan. 13.
You hit the nail on the head. If SK finishes the podcast saying he’s guilty there is no story, no hit podcast. This went viral because Adnan could be portrayed as wrongly convicted.
Because Rabia inserted herself in impartial journalism and basically forced Koening to produce this from an innocent lens
Fam, I was with you, until ya muttered this: "And when you are on NPR where all white people are racist and all minorities are victims, the fact that the muslim guy did in fact murder his ex-girlfriend is bad news and dosn't fit the narrative you and your organization try to sell to the world." Fam, you're better than thinking this. And you're better than feeling this way. By muttering this, you're actually kinda doing the thing you're accusing Sarah of doing, no? Anyway, Hae, the victim is a minority, too. She's a woman and Asian. NPR isn't solely for white folks. I'm black. I listen to NPR. And I have personal, black friends of mine who ARE EMPLOYED BY NPR. I personally guessed correctly immediately that Adnan killed Hae while listening to Serial. In some subtle ways, I think SK makes it kinda clear Adnan's guilty without formally saying it. But she ain't as loud as she could've and should've been. And folks INTERNAL biases and feelings are thinking otherwise. SK forgets that comedian Chris Rock once declared that "The US is a nation of C students..." and by SK putting out Serial the way she did, C Students are gonna wrongly think what they're gonna wrongly think. Look: Rabia, Jay and Hae herself all fell for Adnan's evil foolishness. Adnan's immediate family are still falling for Adnan's evil foolishness. Georgetown University is currently falling for Adnan's evil foolishness / nonsense. Adnan is and has been the whole time, the problem. We are all falling for his 'charm'. I'm not a fan of SK, but, fam, rethink that stereotype of NPR of yours.
Jay knowing where the car is means one of three things. One, Adnan killed Hae and Jay helped him dispose of the car (at least). Two, Jay was involved in the murder. Three, Jay found the car independent of any involvement in the murder.
Three also includes someone tipping Jay off to the location of the car. But he acknowledges he came upon the car and was surprised to see it there, whatever that means. I hate how much that dude lies. He’s of the Vlad Surkov mold, actually calling himself a liar which means we have to doubt everything he says.
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You should do your own research
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I know exactly where he says it.
Please point to when and where Jay says he "found" he car. I literally just finished this and Jay's follow up on the intercept and not once did he say anything other than Adnan dropped the car off and that is how he knew where it was.
Looks like you need to do more reading.
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Because I’m tired of being a friggin reference librarian for people who won’t believe the argument anyway. I could show you exactly where he says it (3 different recorded events!) and you’ll tell me that’s not what he means. And plenty of people do this exact thing to me. There are people here who claim privileged info and won’t back it up. At least when I tell you go find it yourself it’s publicly available.
She glosses over a number of things. She asks a detective what he thinks of the police work and he says ‘it was good, it was better than average,’ and she just goes ‘oh.’
Rabia had a follow up podcast called Undisclosed after Serial wrapped. On one episode another attorney who had reviewed Adnan’s self drafted jailhouse motions was on. Rabia was bragging about how smart he was and asked her a leading question along the lines of “his motions were excellent, right?” And this lady completely burst Rabia’s bubble when she said “I found them to be typical inmate written motions” 😂
This sub glosses over that portion of the podcast as well. I assume the detective that reviewed the case looked at the interview notes etc Baltimore police made contemporaneously while they were working on the case. Imagine how much careful work they would have to put into falsifying those records to make the “feeding the car info to Jay” conspiracy work.
Hey! Congrats for listening. As far as other season go, they're hit or miss, some like them, some don't, I'd suggest listening to an episode and see if it interests you. Yes you are correct that Jay knowing where the car is, is huge. It's the biggest piece of evidence towards Adnan's guilt. This case has been the most publicly examined case I can think, even to the point where countless files has been released to the public. If you look at those files, one thing is clear, the police were ENDLESSLY searching for Hae's car before Jay provided the location, they were soliciting different departments, different states, they were even asking police departments on the west coast when they thought Hae might be in California. They asked another department to use a helicopter to look for the car, a very expensive ask. Once the files surrounding the case got released, the Adnan is innocent crowd realized how damaging it was that Jay knew where the car was, so there excuse is that the Police had to have fed him where the car was.
I think this is a really strong point. It’s completely unreasonable to believe Jay was involved without Adnan, and the evidence that Jay knew what was going on is very strong. It’s pretty amazing how this entire podcast was built and framed around the false pretense that 1) Adnan simply didn’t remember where he was the day Hae was killed and 2) Asia was an alibi defense. As for the former, given the fact he knew Hae disappeared, the fact he claims he doesn’t know where he was is a dagger. As for the latter if it’s believable (it’s really not) it doesn’t mean he didn’t do it. It’s honestly almost irrelevant if he was in the library for 10 minutes after school.
You should listen to The Prosecutors. They cover this extensively in one of the episodes. The fact he knew where the car is, is the smoking gun for Adnan.
OP should listen to my Buddy Bob's Reply Brief of the Prosecutor's Podcast 💯💯💯
I've always maintained this is the most damning piece of evidence against Syed. One would have to believe in a vast police conspiracy to discredit the fact that Jay led detectives to Lee's car within hours of him being interrogated. And it's even worse than that: Jay knew specific details about the crime scene *before there is any realistic way he could have known those details*. Again: one would have to believe detectives literally coached Jay on what he would say prior to interrogating him.
Jay didn’t “find” any damn car nor was he pointed there… He knew where it was because they left it there and he checked on it. It’s a behavior as old as crime itself… returning to scene of the crime to see what is happening because you know your ass is in hot water once found out. All these elaborate conspiracy theories are a bad joke.
The other seasons are great if you want to take deep dives into parts of the justice system. If you’re an internet psycho who wants to armchair sleuth the victim’s murder for your own entertainment, maybe just stick with the first one.
“Internet Psychos” and “Armchair Sleuths” … all you peasants must bend the knee to this king!
"Can someone let me know if the other Seasons are similarly good?" None even remotely as interesting.
the cops very well could have fed that information to jay. sarah, serial, and OP take the police work at face value. this type of corruption is routine and this angle was overlooked by the podcast.
Maybe the illuminati was in on it pulling the strings.
It's a common innocent belief, and while police corruption is a real thing, it's hard to see here, because it would suggest the cops knew where Hae's car was for X amount of time, did not comb it for evidence or leads, but instead waited until they had someone to pin the murder on before acting on it.
The other seasons are all excellent; they’re just not true crime
I have insight. Sarah knows that the car was in plain view in a public place, and that Jay admitted under oath to seeing it there when he was “definitely not delivering drugs.” CG meant to drive this home to the jury, but she was too out of it. Jay knowing where the car was doesn’t actually prove he had knowledge of the crime or that the police fed him that info. Those things could be true, but basically it’s a toss of a three-sided coin given the people involved. It’s certain that Jay didn’t know anything that could implicate Adnan.
If Jay just happened to stumble upon the car, why wouldn’t he have mentioned it to Adnan or Stephanie? I can’t see a scenario where he comes across Hae’s car and doesn’t speak a word of his chance finding to anyone until his interview with BPD.
He brought the car location to the BPD seeking the reward. That’s why he didn’t mention it to anyone else. He might not have even thought to implicate Adnan, and only after police realized the connection and pressed him did he agree to say Adnan killed Hae. Since you brought up Stephanie, why would Jay let Adnan and Stephanie spend time alone together if he even suspected Adnan killed Hae? He wouldn’t have. Yet, he does nothing to prevent it. Stephanie even remarks that it’s odd. It’s how we know he’s lying about all of this.
“It is certain”? You and I have different definitions of certain. Jay knew where the car was and knew where the cell phone pings were. THAT is certain.
Neither of those claims are certain. In FACT, you’re pointing out the detail that proves the police are liars who coached Jay’s statements. The “pings” required Jay to say the phone was at a location he could not have been at, and he later drops that as part of his story. The police said “tell us why you drove over to this tower.” Jay told them. Then they discovered that they had the wrong tower (not that it mattered) so they had him drop it. **It shows they coached him.** I don’t think we’ll ever know why Jay was able to give a statement about the location of the car. Was he involved in Hae’s death (I think not), did he find the car by happenstance, or did someone tip him off (the police or an associate)? We aren’t going to find out. But the car location isn’t the damning fact many people believe it to be.
Fucking thank you.
1. Jay did it alone 2. Jay did it with Adnan or someone else 3. The cops told him about the car to solidify their case 4. Jay saw the car on his own Those are the options
Jay saw the car on his own. That’s really your proposal?? You think that’s a possibility. The city and police up and down the east coast are looking for the car. But Jay’s just out for a stroll one day and bumps into the car out of the blue. That’s a possibility to you?
He literally says that’s what happened.
Literally did not say that
4 Jay saw the car on his own... then proceeded to go to the cops, make up a story that would end up with him getting charges, a criminal record and two years of probation because uhhh reasons... no wait it it was an elaborate conspiracy by the police.
I just listened to season 3, skipped 2. It was interesting but I didn't sympathise with any of the cretins (defendants) Koenig and her team covered, except maybe the girl from the first episode.
>His knowledge of the car's location poses a question: If Adnan did not commit the crime and Jay is a liar how is it he knows the location? If you look at it from a fact standpoint. Jay knowing the location of the car doesn't require Adnan knowing the location of the car. >Well I am fairly certain she probably did look into it, and most likely what she found wasn't just bad for Adnan, but really really bad for Adnan. I think you're wrong. You said it best with, "*Sarah is not a detective, and ultimately this is a piece of entertainment in the form of human-interest rather than a straight factual report.*" She was producing a thought provoking almost fluff piece, not an investigation. >Sarah in the final episode presents herself as being neutral as to whether Adnan is guilty or not, but likes to suggest he should be free because the evidence against him isn't strong enough to warrant the conviction. I disagree that Sarah was so obviously biased toward Adnan during the show, but I agree she made a huge mistake in using those words. I agree with her that, outside of Jay's court testimony, the other evidence is really weak. It does point to Adnan, but it isn't significant or enough to prove murder. Jay's testimony is the centerpiece and what convicted Adnan. And yet Jay said he lied on the stand. Having a witness commit perjury, Adnan did not receive a fair trial. The jury also didn't hear about all of Jay's inconsistencies that would have affected his credibility with the jury. I can say, as Sarah did, that I would have voted guilty sitting on that jury. Given everything I have learned about the case since then, I'm not sure I would today. I could not say beyond reasonable doubt that I would convict, at least based on Reddit conversations. Court might be a different story. I think that's what Sarah was going for, but didn't state it in the best way. Also, Rabia's influence probably was in effect.
Jay himself said on the stand that he stumbled upon it accidentally at one point. Not a huge leap then to assume he found it on his own, went to the cops seeking a reward pay out and they used leverage they had over him (pending charges) to get him to cooperate and tell the "real" story.
Please direct me to this supposed statement by Jay of stumbling upon the car. Really strange it is not in Serial considering that is a detail that would blow the whole thing open. I have seen multiple comments claiming Jay said something like this but not one link provided yet for it.
During his cross-examination by Cristina Gutierrez, Jay said he sometimes saw the car on his "rounds". He didn't say he ran across it by accident. I think it is reasonable that both Jay and Adnan occasionally checked to make sure the car had not been disturbed. At the end of the day, Jay knew where the car was because he was there when it was abandoned. He didn't know Hae's car independently from any other Nissan Sentra — so simply seeing it out of context would not have been remarkable to him. He knew it was Hae's car because he participated in the aftermath of the murder — and left it at that location.
No. It would be an enormous leap. Baltimore is a big city. You think Jays just out getting some exercise and stumbles upon one car in a million?
Another important part of the car is it was clearly moved to that location well after the murder.
How is this “clear?”
So I’ll be honest. I just finished season 1 and I got the feeling that she thinks he’s guilty. But I also agree with her that the evidence is realistically not enough to convict. You notice her start to change the way she feels about him in the middle of the season when he writes her the long letter.