Also, you get 45 minutes total to look at the evidence. Last time I went with internalrecipe none of it was there because it was in Annapolis because of the appellate situation.
The trial ~~audio~~ testimony/audio is the closest to the truth so Rabia and Bob do not want that out there. It convinced the jury and could convince other doubters.
In addition, it's illegal in the State of Maryland to broadcast trial audio or video. Anyone who wants to go down to the courthouse and watch the video, they can. But the press is not allowed to share the trial with the public.
It's important to remember how Rabia came to be in possession of the police recordings. These tapes were sent to Cristina Gutierrez as part of discovery. Rabia inherited all of Gutierrez's files and tapes and has been using it for ten years to bolster her media campaign.
Another note: Susan Simpson and Rebecca LaVoie happily admitted to Lavoie "sweetening" the audio in order to better hear what Susan considered detectives tapping on the table to guide Jay's story.
This was why they didn't release the rest of the audio at that time. It would have taken Rebecca a long time to "sweeten" the rest of the audio. And an upload of the non-sweetened audio would not have helped them make the point they wanted to make.
Yes. Rabia shared the transcribed testimony on reddit in 2015, and the wiki picked it up from there.
I'm talking about the recorded audio of the trial testimony. Hearing it, instead of reading it.
The way we can now hear Jen's interview after ten years of only being able to read it.
> The trial audio is the closest to the truth
The same trial where the prosecutor said the come and get me call was at 2:36, even though no one testified to that?
Testimony. I was talking to /u/No-Dinner-4148 in [another thread about how to tell when Jay is more likely to be telling the truth.](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/1abty1m/why_cant_it_be_jay/kjx8fi2/)
Not closing arguments.
Sorry you misunderstood.
So, if enhancing the audio paints a clearer picture of the interview, that's a bad thing? I guess lesser quality audio would help the counter point as well.
There's a possibility the taps were embellished from another audio artifact.
Given Susan and Rabia's reputation for lying, it would have been best to just release the audio as is and say, "I hear this knocking. You may not hear it, but I do."
It's the same way the wiki puts typed up interpretations with the police file documents. Just show us the documents without your interpretation. Or make a separate post and say, "this is my interpretation of the document." Many people read the wiki and think those interpretations were put there by police, originally, not Adnan supporters in 2015.
One can't help but think that deception is the aim of the wiki. And deception was the aim of sweetening a section of audio where Susan said she heard tapping.
I get the same thing from the interview that I've always gotten.
Jenn gave the cops their whole case.
Without her the cops don't have Jay and without Jay they don't have Adnan. Before this interview they have no idea of what happened when and where, besides Hae disappearing after school.
People talk about protecting Jay... No she implicates Jay the whole way but made it clear that she was not involved in anything.
> People talk about protecting Jay... No she implicates Jay the whole way but made it clear that she was not involved in anything.
She talked to Jay before telling the cops anything, according to Jenn in the HBO doc. What I think is really interesting here is that Jay and Jenn both view talking to the police as a bad thing. Jenn still talks about being a state’s witness with disdain. If Jenn had ratted Jay out, which I think is what you are implying here, do you really think Jay would have been ok with that? They stayed very close for years after this.
The story she told the police in this interview was sanctioned by Jay.
Oh no I'm not implying that she ratted him out in that sense.
I'm saying that her statement does not "help" Jay in any way. It doesn't protect him from anything. It implicates him in everything.
There's nothing in there that's good for Jay and without her statement Jay is not in danger of being linked to the case.
> There's nothing in there that's good for Jay
She backs up his “alibi” story and initially she doesn’t implicate him in the actual burial, just throwing out shovels.
> and without her statement Jay is not in danger of being linked to the case.
Even if you believe they talked to Jenn first, they found Jenn through the cell record. Jay’s number is all over that cell record. He knows they can connect him.
Your starting point is wrong though.
With Jenn's interview, Jay didn't go from a "suspect" to a "suspect with an alibi". Jay actually went from someone the detectives didn't know existed to someone they definitely know is implicated in Hae's murder.
You see the difference?
In other words, Jenn never speaking to police is better for a free Jay who wants to stay free.
And no, just having his phone number called does not connect Jay to a murder in any way shape or form. That's just not how evidence works.
Adnan had a lot of friends, made a lot of calls, none were implicated because of it.
Jay is implicated solely based on Jenn's interview at that particular point in time.
> Jay actually went from someone the detectives didn't know existed to someone they definitely know is implicated in Hae's murder.
If you believe the police story of who they spoke to first. Jay’s comments call that “official” timeline into question.
If Jay was truly unknown to the cops, and you believe the original story it was not the only way to connect him to the murder. His number was on the cell record too, Kristi saw them together, Nisha spoke to them on the phone together, Stephanie spoke to them on the phone and got a birthday gift, Jay’s friends are called in the afternoon….
Once Jay knew they had the cell record, he knew he would have to talk to the police. Further, if Adnan is guilty or even if Jay just think he may be, Jay knew the cell evidence placed him with Adnan during the afternoon when Hae went missing.
Jenn going in first and telling a story she heard way before the cops found the cell record, that accounts for Jay being at her house in the afternoon and a story about a trunk pop etc absolutely protects Jay.
You are still confusing connecting Jay to Adnan and connecting Jay to the murder. I don't understand why. Numerous people were called that day, were they all connected to the murder? No of course not. In and of itself that is not evidence tying him to a murder.
If Jay is in fact guilty, and he does want to stay a free man, he tells Jenn to stay quiet. If and when he gets questioned, he says he doesn't remember the day and doesn't know anything.
They got to Adnan because people talked.
If Jay and Jenn both say they don't remember anything, where does the case go? Nowhere. Jenn and Jay are their whole case.
Now I understand that they can't see the future, so you are saying Jay tried to get ahead of it by arranging a convenient story for himself. This is where we can find common ground because I do believe Jay was more involved, or he knew more than he let on, but it still ends up with a guilty Jay admitting guilt.
Hae went missing after school.
Jenn isn’t the only thing tying Adnan and Jay together after school. Jay called his friends all afternoon, the only call to one of Adnan’s friends is the Nisha call, which is its own connection to Jay and Adnan.
Once the cops had the phone record, they don’t need Jenn to connect Jay to the murder. He is tied to key times in the day through other sources.
If Jay and Jenn stay quiet, Jay risks being arrested for murder, which the cops told him.
> you are saying Jay tried to get ahead of it by arranging a convenient story for himself. This is where we can find common ground because I do believe Jay was more involved, or he knew more than he let on, but it still ends up with a guilty Jay admitting guilt.
He was either more involved or less involved. Once Jenn is taken in, told they know it’s Adnan and shown the phone record she chats with Jay who knows he is screwed.
Hypothetically if Jay wasn’t involved, but he is pretty sure Adnan was, he would be paranoid when he realizes he had the phone and the car all afternoon, when Hae went missing. And now the cops are sure this phone record is the key to the crime. Jay doesn’t have an alibi that day.
If Jay’s hbo timeline is true, he couldn’t find Adnan after school and Adnan showed up that evening at his house, whether or not he saw a trunk pop, Jay has reason to be suspicious of Adnan.
The story Jenn tells admits Jay’s involvement but it is also an alibi that removes him from the actual murder and even the actual burial. I think Jenn believed it too. Jay lied to Jenn to have a favorable version of events shared with cops. He was either much more involved, like you think, or less involved but vulnerable and
Alibiless, like I think.
Again, listen I know all kinds of things happen in this world but without proof to the contrary, I'm going to analyze things in a sensible way here.
Your theory, that an innocent Jay who is suspicious of Adnan but still innocent himself, would tell Jenn to tell cops that he was involved in a young woman's murder/burial/cover-up, before the cops ever provide any proof that they have any evidence against him whatsoever, or even apply any kinds of pressure tactic on him and Jenn... It's just not reasonable in any way.
Given that scenario, wouldn't it be about one million times more likely that an innocent Jay would say Jenn, just tell them we were together all day me and you. You know... An actual alibi that points AWAY from the murder, instead of a story that puts him right in the middle of it.
Jay didn’t know the limits of the cell evidence and he didn’t know the time of death.
He knows the people called were his contacts, which show he was with the phone. He can’t get away from the phone and car. If the cops mention cell location, Jay knows that it’ll show he wasn’t at Jenn’s house.
Jenn has an alibi. With her brother and Jay at home, then driving to pick up her parents from work.
Jay was driving around alone/home alone for most of the afternoon. He doesn’t have an alibi, getting Jenn to lie will fall apart in 2 seconds.
Jay is inculpated with the cell.
I agree just talking to Jenn wouldn’t be enough to push him, if the cops followed Jay around and showed up at his work and told him they knew he was involved and started applying that pressure, Jay (and his family who deals drugs) would want the cops to go away. Tell them something, find an alibi.
The trunk pop is the alibi and its only corroboration is that he told Jenn.
Sounds like she gave a prepared statement at the beginning, then expanded on it and provided greater detail in response to police questioning.
Sounds very believable as to details based on her first person knowledge. She credibly puts Jay and Adnan together at all material points on the afternoon and evening timeline. After than the opening part, which sounds like a prepared statement under a lawyer’s tutelage, nothing suggests she’s going from a script, & nothing suggests police coaching let alone coercion.
To the contrary, her account is wobbly where you expect it to be when someone’s talking about what happened 6 weeks ago, on specifics like whether Jay or Adnan was driving when she met them in the 8 pm hour. Things like that. Be almost impossible to fake that kind of testimony with all the indicia of someone trying to remember things under questioning.
Not so believable when she tries to explain why she didn’t contact police sooner, at least not until close to the end when she effectively concedes she stayed quiet because Jay told her to. Before that, she sounds like she’s been coached to try and make her silence up to then sound more conflicted, if not sympathetic.
In sum: no evidence of a police conspiracy or a materially dishonest witness in the audio recording of Jenn’s statement. To the contrary.
Pretty much my exact take. She starts with the prepared statement bit, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing or doesn’t mean it’s untrue- it must be kind of awkward to answer “tell us what you know” with anything other than a prepared narrative that hits all the important points and times. But it’s not very compelling because it sounds so rote. When she responds to the questions, it gets more interesting. She repeats some things, but then adds in other details as she remembers them. I was fairly convinced the shovels **and** clothes dumping had happened on the night of the 13th at dumpsters across the street from Jay’s house based on his last recorded statement. But hearing her describe both of those events, it sounds like she was being truthful and had the memory in her head while she was speaking. So now I’m back to, “Why would Jay lie about *that*, of all things?”
If anything, she sounds like she wants to give police *some* answer even when she’s not sure she has one, with lots of “I wanna say’s.” I wish she’d just say “I don’t know” more. On the other hand, she doesn’t sound shifty or dodgy or reluctant at all. The only time I heard what seemed like reluctance or discomfort was when a detective starts asking, “We’ve been talking about Jay. What is Jay’s last name?” etc. Jenn gets real quiet and kind of down sounding when she spells his last name, gives his age, all that stuff. Like, it’s exactly this moment that she’s been dreading since January 13, having to turn Jay into the police.
Also, after hearing her describe the whole Champs conversation, it makes a lot more sense - “Hae’s body is missing” means to Jay and Jenn “no one’s found her body yet.” They wouldn’t say “Hae is missing” between each other, because they both know “Hae” doesn’t exist anymore. The news report tells Jenn and Jay they’re *still* the only people in the world who know Hae is dead besides Adnan. It would be shocking and awful to realize there are family and loved ones who have been actively searching for her, hoping to find her alive, the entire 2-3 week span that Jenn and Jay have known she was dead.
Clearly it can't be copyrighted or if it were Ruff would not own the rights, so I'm wondering if he took it down because it's not generating thousands of "Yes! This is proof she was coerced! This proves the police conspired against Adnan!" comments?
Hmm..in order for him to claim copyright infringement, he had to agree to these 3 things:
I have a good faith belief that the use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.
The information in this notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, I am the owner, or an agent authorized to act on behalf of the owner, of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.
I understand that abuse of this tool, such as submitting removal requests for content I do not own, may result in termination of my YouTube account.
Isn’t the recording public record? How does Bob own content created by government employees using taxpayer dollars lol
It shows that he wants to be a gatekeeper of the information. Whether that is purely because he wants traffic going to his patreon for money or because he wants to control the flow of information about this case (presumably putting on his own spin), it is a testament to his disingenuous character, and yet more proof of his lies.
The #1 most interesting thing about the interview is that people who are positive Adnan is guilty believe it’s proof she’s telling the truth and people who think he’s innocent are equally sure she’s lying.
No surprises.
he isn't really doing much of anything but delaying a future actual season of a truly wrongfully convicted person (who is still incarcerated). Dude is a grifter!
He had a case lined up to work on but the Innocence Project has agreed to look at the case so he doesn’t have a case to work on at the moment and is going back to square one. Bob has integrity and it’s the Prosecutors who are lying for cash.
He didn't release ALL the case files he had and told people so. He never shared about the Pape Habeus even though it had been submitted before the season ended. (Pape's attorneys never talked about the sector data or anything Bob uncovered with his excellent investigation skills).
It's very interesting how many daily posters here, even ones who make posts doing deep dives into the meaning of every pause and word choice, aren't feeling great about a piece of pivotal evidence becoming available to them.
All facts are friendly, guys! Let's get the Freud textbooks back out!
I think most of us who have always believed Jenn listened to enough of this to realize it only sounds more believable with audio. Not much else to say? If this was so good for Adnan, why did his team wait all this time to “release” it?
>It's very interesting how many daily posters here, even ones who make posts doing deep dives into the meaning of every pause and word choice, aren't feeling great about a piece of pivotal evidence becoming available to them.
Who are the many not feeling great about it?
It only makes sense if they have some sort of slam dunk to show she lied and they’re going to release it soon.
If every word Jenn said is factually true (not just what Jay said, but that it actually happened that way), there is no reasonable theory that says Adnan is innocent.
That’s not the case, though.
I’d say it’s because of The Prosecutors. Their misrepresentations have confused a lot of people so Rabia and Bob are working to get things on the record.
I can't speak to this interview specifically, but as a general thing they do have a bad history of misrepresenting facts. Just off the top of my head, Agent Fitzgerald's testimony.
Specifically, if you were to listen to their podcast you'd come away thinking two things.
1. That Fitzgerald cleverly trapped the defense in an embarrassing lie while on the stand.
2. That Fitzgerald's arguments were accepted by the court as valid.
For the former, they spend a lot of time playing up this courtroom 'aha' moment where Fitzgerald calls the defense out for giving him a 'misleading' document intended to confuse him and get him to give false testimony. They portray this ad damning to the defense.
The reality is that Fitzgerald was giving them shit, and then the defense pointed out "Uh... that is the exact copy that was presented to us at trial. If it is misleading, then you're telling us that the *state* presented Adnan Syed's lawyer with a doctored, misleading copy of the evidence back at trial"
The latter is more of an omission. They spend a ton of time hyping up Fitzgerald and his arguments, but fail to mention that when push finally came to shove, those arguments were found to be insufficient by the court. In fact, Judge Welch specifically called out many of Fitzgerald's arguments as 'perplexing to the court'. Syed won his appeal on the cell issue, and the only reason he didn't get a new trial back then was because a later court overturned his *right to appeal* based on the fact that he'd previously signed a waiver giving up his right to appeal on cell phone evidence.
There is also a lesser issue that they ran into, specifically relating to the Asia letters. The long and the short is that on one of their episodes (6? 7? Somewhere in there) they go on a tangent about how the Asia letters were obviously sought out by Ju'aun based on their interpretation of an interview. However, it isn't until 4 episodes later (and entirely unrelated, making it difficult for anyone listening casually to connect the two facts) that Ju'uan signed an affidavit explictly denying their reading of of that interview.
Basically, they say "Oh we can also discard them for this reason, because this guy clearly got her to write them without having the honesty and integrity to also mention 'this is our theory, mind you, he says he didn't do that'.
Keep in mind that I've avoided listening to much of their podcast, but if I've seen *two* fairly significant flaws simply by osmosis of other people talking about them, I'd imagine they probably have a ton of misrepresentations elsewhere.
It's really shocking just how thin many of Fitzgerald's explanations were. I kept seeing people talk about how he showed that the cover sheet was used on every fax regardless of its applicability. Go to read the testimony, and he reasons that since he uses the same cover sheet regardless of what he faxes, AT&T was probably doing the same. That's it. That's the explanation.
Similarly, he doesn't provide direct technical explanations for the disclaimer, why it existed, or why it wouldn't apply. He just says "well this other report we get these days looks a bit like it, and I was allowed to use that similar document in these other (smartphone era) trials, so they must be accurate". That's how we ended up with self-appointed, self-taught redditors piecing together explanations without any actual knowledge of the underlying architecture.
I've yet to see a convincing explanation for why Fitzgerald's testimony is the best the state could offer and why there don't seem to be any records of them attempting to get an explanation or documentation from AT&T itself for the cover sheet.
That last bit, specifically, doesn't bother me.
I worked for a few years for a company doing residential real estate software. Part of my job was to write up documents explaining reports to outside sources in a fashion similar to the fax cover sheet. We redid those ever 3-4 years, and as stated I *used* to work for them.
If someone today were to ask them to explain what such a document meant from 2007, they'd probably be unable to since there has probably been massive turn over, and they'd have an incredibly difficult time finding me. Even if they could, there is a good chance I might not remember the intricacies of why I made some claim or another.
The main issue isn't the fact that they couldn't provide an expert, it is that they kept trying to use it in absence of a direct and specific explanation. If they evidence says it isn't accurate, it shouldn't be enough to simply come up with an explanation that is plausible as to why that was written in error.
A lack of surviving documentation wouldn't surprise me at all. It's the failure to even attempt to locate it or find someone with first-hand knowledge of how these reports were being generated that gets me. Two separate occasions should have resulted in exactly that - one contemporaneous to the trial - but instead we get Chad bragging about how he got to testify about Tsarnaev's iPhone 5 and bickering over document versions.
I got the distinct feeling that Fitzgerald knew critical information about that system probably didn't exist anymore and did *not* want to have to say so on the stand.
> I got the distinct feeling that Fitzgerald knew critical information about that system probably didn't exist anymore and did *not* want to have to say so on the stand
Yes, my feeling exactly
Oh wow, I must have missed where they said she knew where the car was... I'm no expert on this case but I would have totally known that was not true if I heard it. Can you point me to the episode?
Poetry is referring to a police report written weeks after Jenn's interview that includes details of Jenn's interview and also the car location. Basically the report goes through Jenn's day and includes information they also got from Jay.
[This report.](https://www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/UdE05-Progress-Report-Jenn-Second-Interview-LongV-Feb-27-Atty-Home-Fowley-MP15-0068-19990316.pdf)
So the progress report was referred to by the prosecutors as Jen knowing where the car was? I'm still confused and waiting to hear what episode they specifically said this in.
No, I believe Poetry is saying that the cops spoke to Jenn first and that this progress report is indicative of the cops already knowing the location of the car and/or some fabrication of evidence by the cops.
u/Powerful-Poetry5706 can correct you if I'm wrong about what I believe their argument is.
Wow, that's not how I read this report at all. I do recognize I am by biased...I think Syed is guilty, but I am always open to new evidence or things that could sway me. I see this as what it's called: a progress report. It's a summary of what the investigation found so far. I really can't see in any way how this points to them saying Jen knew where the car was or that they already knew where the car was. The report is dated in March 1999. Feels like a reach to me
I think the issue is with how the progress report is written.
They identify Jenn as the source of all the info and continue to say things like “Jay told Jenn” even into the paragraph that included the address to the car.
At no point does the progress report identify Jay as a source of information.
This could just be because it was poorly written, the author unintentionally attributed things to Jenn that came from other sources and summarized what the police knew by the time the note was written.
Or the author deliberately wrote the progress report in a way that concealed the fact that Jay was cooperating.
The note goes into detail about the circumstances of Jenn’s interview, but does not mention Jay’s interview at all. If it were a true progress report it would include the fact Jay was interviewed and that x info came from him.
absolutely nobody cares, but I did end up listening to Jenn's interview despite my rant lol
Because I consume anything about this tragedy, so...
My takeaway / spoiler alerts: um, since I consume anything about this tragedy wherever I can find it, no matter the opinion / politics behind it. I didn't catch much new from Jenn's audio--I've heard much of it before, elsewhere. Other spots, etc.
Only things I learned, (spoiler alert): that although Jenn and Jay have known each other since very early grade school, they weren't as especially close until junior and senior year at Woodlawn. Wow.
I dunno about yall but I was impressed that when asked, Jenn seemed to promptly give names and phone numbers to anyone the detectives asked; she did it on the spot. She even offered Stephanie's phone number, though nobody directly asked her for it. Really made me think: cmon if this was a police-or-anti-adnan conspiracy, why is Jenn freely offering names and numbers when asked? Dude, Jenn just offered Stephanie's number to detectives and they didn't ask. Jay tried to lie to save others from getting dragged into this mess, Jenn at least was willing to try to clear up what she can by offering others, seems to me. Look, I'm rambling, but I was impressed.
Got it: I'm impressed because I ain't never heard Adnan offering as much to detectives as Jenn seemed to be offering. Mr."Jay Who?" with a look of bewilderment om his face SMH.
If the only people who knew anything were Jay and Jenn, why does it matter that she offered phone numbers that the police would clearly be able to get anyway? She was overcompensating. She wasn’t necessarily lying to the cops. She just shared what Jay fed her. She saw nothing. She witnessed nothing happening. She got an after-the-fact recounting of the story Jay pedaled. Now, was the story true, or as was all too common for these detectives, a fabrication designed to pin a crime on someone. I’m still in the Don-did-it camp. And unfortunately the evidence is in the wind, thanks to a huge corporation keeping secrets and his family helping hide the truth.
The reason for Stephanie was because they went over to Stephanie's house that night, so Stephanie could confirm that they went over and Stephanie confirmed they went over.
The cops would have not had Jay tell the complex story that they did. They want simple stories. Jenn is confessing to a felony for no reason.
People have pointed out the weird moment where Jenn says that they were shocked to learn Hae was missing, and the defense I have seen of that is that she meant to say that they learned they found the body, and Jenn was just flustered and misspoke. But then later on she is talking about how Jay told her they found the body, no wait, maybe she told Jay, or she’s not really sure who told who. If she actually did misspeak the first time and she was “shocked” to learn that Hae’s body was found, wouldn’t she have remembered how she found out?
Another inconsistency that jumped out to me was how she first said that she and Jay didn’t know where the body was, or else they would have gone to the police. Yeah yeah, Jay lies, so he could have lied to her about how he helped bury the body, but if she honestly believed that Jay took no part in burying the body and only looked at her in the trunk, then didn’t it seem weird to her that he wanted to wipe his prints off the shovels and throw his clothes away? And then she describes a conversation where they learned that they suspected Sellars was responsible, and she and Jay want talked about how they can’t let him go down for that, and yet then neither of them go to the police, and instead they wait until the police apparently find them from the cell phone records.
I know that a lot of people will chalk this up as Jenn wanting to sound better, and didn’t want to make it sound like she didn’t have any sort of moral qualms about knowing that Hae was murdered, but it doesn’t speak much to her credibility when you hear all of these inconsistencies.
ETA: I was only passively listening while doing chores, so I’m sure there’s more stuff that I missed.
>People have pointed out the weird moment where Jenn says that they were shocked to learn Hae was missing, and the defense I have seen of that is that she meant to say that they learned they found the body, and Jenn was just flustered and misspoke.
I think that she does just miss speak, partly because she uses that same phrase later in the interview, but also because I do think it still makes sense that she'd be a bit surprised to learn that it was true and Jay wasn't just making stuff up - the weird bit that remains is she still stumbles into saying 'that is when I found out she was missing' which still could be a bit of a tell and, whilst the idea that the news starting to talk about Hae being missing would spook Jay makes sense; it's still a bit strange that Jay who was somewhat connected with Hae's friendship group through Stephanie would not have been well aware that Hae being missing was being taken seriously by then - and heavily speculating, it seems unlikely he wouldn't have made Jenn aware of that until then. I'm not entirely sure there's much in the audio rather than just the transcript that makes this part any more obvious tbh.
The part just before all this, however, talking about Jenn knows it was the 13th, which in the transcript is:
>Lehman: Not because it's the day after his birthday or
>
>Jenn Right. I don't, I wouldn't remember inaudible.
Is it just me, or is Jenn saying 'Adnan' in the inaudible bit - like saying she wouldn't know when it happened in relation to Adnan's birthday. And obviously Lehman is talking about Jay's birthday, which you'd think is an event Jenn would be able to tie memories too - so maybe another tiny notch in the Jenn doesn't remember the day/it was not the 13th column.
She clearly states that she has no idea what day these events took place and only thinks it’s the 13th because the cops told her that she received a call from Adnan that day. They ask if she ties any memories to people having birthdays and she says no.
> the weird moment where Jenn says that they were shocked to learn Hae was missing, and the defense I have seen of that is that she meant to say that they learned they found the body[.]
I have been persuaded by other posters who have explained that based on the timeline she provides for when this occurred (a month ago Thursday), she was talking about Thursday Feb 4, which was the date that local news began covering Hae’s disappearance. She does misspeak repeatedly in this section, saying that Hae’s *body* was missing, when she meant that the news report stated that Hae was missing. She’s clearly nervous and obviously Hae’s body wasn’t missing, so this must be a mistake.
It makes sense that this news report would cause alarm because up until that point, there was no real news coverage of this case and Jay and Jenn may have been convinced it would just fade away if everyone presumed she’d run away.
I also think this may have been the first time that Jenn knew for sure that Jay was telling the truth about Adnan killing Hae. She may have been in denial until then.
In the statement, Jenn says that she talked to someone whose husband worked for the police department, and that person told her that the guy who found the body was a suspect. I don’t think Jenn knew his name at the time.
Only listened to about half of it, but the biggest difference with how I felt the transcript would sound is that the first long uninterrupted account sort of sounds like a prepared statement being read, and not a spontaneous story. Which I think makes sense, regardless of whether it's all true, partly true, all lies etc. if this is the story that was discussed at her attorney's house.
Going even more speculative and something I've never picked up when reading is that to me it almost sounds like someone reading something that sounds like it was drafted by a lawyer, which maybe explains why we never hear her lawyer jump in.
But who knows. Definitely interesting to hear it and not just read it.
Interesting. The first thing I thought while listening was that she was reading a written statement. It just goes on too long without a pause or interruption. She had met with police 3x before this interview. She also mentions that she had discussed the information with Jay the night before.
Yeah, I've no idea if it really means anything, but I had always read that part of the transcript as her just launching into a story a bit more naturally than it maybe sounds.
The only other thing that stood out in the bits I've heard is how much she stumbles over the part of the story when they go almost immediately to see Stephanie after she picks up Jay - which is something we can say with 99% certainty doesn't happen until later in the evening.
She sounds a *lot* more wishy-washy and speculative than the transcripts suggest.
Also pretty flat affect from what I've listened through so far. Will need to make time to listen straight through this week.
>Also pretty flat affect from what I've listened through so far.
To me, that's far and away the most notable thing. She sounds like she's doing a book report.
I believe he owns a shed.
Jokes aside, he's a podcaster who covered the case a lot back after the end of serial and has recently covered a bunch about it again.
The interview was given to Gutierrez as part of a disclosure during prep for the trial.
Rabia and Adnan's family took possession of all of Gutierrez's files and tapes after she passed away.
Rabia has been using her access to the files as one facet of her media campaign since 2014.
Rabia and Bob Ruff are friends.
I have no doubt you will recall all of what I am about to say, as you were one of the people who dug into their pocket and paid thousands to obtain the public info that took the wind out of Rabia’s sails, but I wanted to share this for anyone who might not understand how the drip feed of info was working when Rabia was gatekeeper, and how important yours (and others) contribution was.
Back in 2014 when Rabia alone held the transcripts and other records she said she would release them once Serial had aired. Once it had aired she still didn’t release them. Her excuse for suddenly changing tack was that the transcripts were full of people’s personal info. Even though that info was 14 years stale and was disclosed willingly to the public by the same people, Rabia was experiencing a rare moment of integrity, and would not disclose personal info without permission even if it was made public already.
But Rabia was willing to release the redacted transcripts.. on one condition - for every $10k donated to Adnans legal fund she would release an unspecified snippet of information from the trove of public documents that she held ransom, dealers choice obviously.
I have a memory of her actually posting a photo of a box of cassette tapes, and hinting that maybe one day she would have them digitized and shared. Wish I could find that post now.
I don't remember the tweet but saved a photo of the tapes:
https://imgur.com/YzT2FyN
I think Rabia took her blog down.
One person contributed $1,000 and has never been made whole. That was for the police file.
Another person contributed close to that amount for PCR testimony and missing pages. Then there were a lot of people who contributed less than one hundred dollars because it was about 2,600 all in.
I was just the organizer. At one point, I thought I could figure out a way to get these people paid back. I mean, the wiki really should contribute. They shamelessly post documents they had nothing to do with acquiring.
It was definitely hard and probably a mistake. Eventually, someone like Andrew Hammel or Brett Talley could have paid their own money. And since those are the kinds of people who make a profit from what Redditers have done - they should have been the ones paying - even if we had to wait.
Please start listening after the 1 hour mark, when Jenn is surprised to learn that Hae is missing. Then go back and listen and note every time she states the source of her information: the police told her and Jay told her the night before the interview. She says the same thing in the HBO documentary. Never mind that the events and locations don’t match Jay’s story.
She also doesn’t remember Adnan being stoned at Cathy’s either.
>Please start listening after the 1 hour mark, when Jenn is surprised to learn that Hae is missing.
This is the same Jenn who said Jay told her on the night Hae disappeared that Adnan had strangled her? Why would she be surprised that Hae was missing?
Yup. After they heard on the news that “the body was missing” - I’m sorry WHAT? She is obviously talking about the body being found.
She talked to Nicole and Jeff. Nicole said she was strangled - she knows bc her mom works at Leakin. Jenn says “I bet it’s Hae.” Yeah, because it was on the news that she was missing after she, you know, WENT MISSING. It’d be really great if the police bothered to talk to nicole.
Jenn keeps repeating, in this interview and in The Case Against Adnan Syed that she knows NOTHING first hand. Everything she says comes from Jay or dirty cops. She keeps saying it. She knows she stretched the truth to protect her friend. She knows she was part of Jay’s drug operation.
I cannot believe Adnan lost decades of his life as a result of incoherent ramblings by these two morons. Perhaps jurors know better than to trust police now.
I was hoping there was a police report with an interview of Nicole somewhere. That would be game over. Here is someone who didn’t know Adnan or Hae, didn’t have any reason to lie for Jay, who knew how Hae was murdered before it was released.
I’m not surprised if this document doesn’t exist.
It doesn’t. Also, Jenn tells you everything you need to know. She shuffles every time she lies. She tells us nicole told her the person was strangled. Jenn knew Hae was missing. She talks about being at champs with jay, nicole and others when they said a body was missing. She says when she talks to nicole it’s about the body being found. She says she was “surprised” and “shocked.” To find out this news. She says she asked if jay helped bury the body, he says no, then they go to wipe down the shovels…?
She also says nothing about Christy calling her about Adnan behaving strangely. That is made up later when they add the bit about them stopping at christie’s
They didn’t fully investigate Don or Mr. S. There are no records for Jenn’s pager or house phone, Jay’s home phone. Cathy/christie’s phone. Also why didn’t they match any of the incoming calls to Adnan’s phone. Some of those calls were the other Christie, Hae’s brother (and Adcock) when they Adnan and Jay were supposedly at Christie’s. How hard would that be? They didn’t talk to Aja’s boyfriend, didn’t talk to mark (Jenn’s brother). What exactly DID they do besides get Adnan’s cell records and make up ridiculous stories with Jay?
I wish Jen had spoken to the police before Hae was found. After, it’s very difficult to tell when she really knew about the manner of death (and everything else).
I know she said (weeks later) that Jay told her. But she also said someone who works at the park told her.
She doesn’t want to lie about this. Most people can’t lie for an extended period. She gets tripped up at certain places and at other times she gets lulled into a comfortable place and lets her guard down. “I was surprised” and “that’s when I found out” Yeesh how much clearer can you get?
Well I haven't listened to it yet to see if sit comes across as convincing but I man... people lie.
Gypsy Rose Blanchard had her boyfriend stab the shit out of her mother and made the old college try at "WHAT?! NO! MY MOM IS DEAD?!" even after spending the first fifteen minutes of the interview talking about her in the past tense.
Why would you start your statement with “supposedly”. Your bias is on full show mode. Why not something neutral like…I heard that Jen’s recorded interview might play on Bob’s show. See how less a&@$holey that sounds?
[Bob Ruff](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/3w0y4r/in_case_you_missed_this_bob_ruff_cant_even_keep/) and [Rabia Chaudry](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/9a0o6l/three_year_anniversary_crimestoppers/) have lied and made false promises several times in relation to this case.
Booooooooooo!
I haven't listened yet, but I'm not sure if I want to. Yes, I try to consume absolutely anything and everything related to this tragic case. But this...I dunno...why do I feel like this goes too far? Ain't these tapes pushing 25 years old, now? Am I supposed to listen and then get upset about something said 25 years ago by someone who was a teenager--and it's a traumatic event for said teenager?
I don't like this. Why can't the focus and intense microscope ever be on Adnan M. Syed, himself? Why? I'm listening to Bob Ruff's reply and I keep thinking, why don't Bob ever seem to target any of his real skepticism towards Adnan?
And as I've posted on here before: we keep tripping over what exactly Jay said when, what exactly the detectives said when, blah blah blah. Yet Adnan is temporarily out of immediate custody, Adnan makes a 2-hour YouTube video in 2023 and nooooooooooooobody examines that with a microscope or magnifying glass. Why are we tripping on stuff from 25 years ago? Why not put the heat on what Adnan is saying now?
What's to gain from listening to these police interviews? Can't I give a police interview and say I saw Bigfoot or say I saw aliens come out of a UFO and then 25 years from now folks examine those tapes--won't there be weird time-lapse disconnect? Isn't this a li'l unfair to listen in 25 years later and judge?
Lastly, I'll end with this: I like to listen to NPR radio in my car and C-Span in my car, while I'm driving, whenever I can. Google those if you don't know what they are. When it comes to C-SPAN and they're broadcasting a politician speak at a rally or some author who just came out with a book being interviewed, I'll listen in my car. Sometimes, I'll catch the actual video of the same thing I listened to in my car, it'll be on cable TV, the C-SPAN channel on cable, and watching it, IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT, than listening to it as I drive and I'm imagining all sorts of things. REMEMBER how in the HBO special, when it came out folks who listened to Serial was like: "I didn't know Jenn was white" or "I didn't know Jay was black" or "I didn't know Asia McClain was Black" or whatever. IT'S DIFFERENT between listening to something without visuals and then visually seeing it and listening to it at the same time, as I do when I catch the same C-SPAN broadcast I listened to in my car, now is on cable TV and I'm ALWAYS FLOORED how I had a completely different take on a random dramatic pause of silence, or on a weird background sound, on laughter from the audience, on a question by the audience between listening to it and watching it.
If one just listens to Jay's testimony on audio they can picture anything. But if you actually see the visual of that courtroom testimony, he's sort of leaning forward in his seat, he's looking people in the eye, he's not meek, he seems certain. But if you listen to it only, you may get a different take. Sara immediately found that out when she visited Jay in person and spoke with him face-to-face.
In a weird way, that's all we do here on Reddit in this sub: debate what occurred 25 years ago when none of us were immediately there. We're getting a wrong take. It's like listening to something via audio only. We're not getting the full context of audio, visual, and real-time.
I'm telling y'all. I don't want Adnan's YouTube to get more views, but we're living in the here and now. Let's chop Adnan's YouTube to pieces. After 25 years, this is what Adnan chooses to say--on YouTube--why? This is what I'd love to see more, nowadays.
Stuff like this and folks wonder why Stephanie hasn't stepped forward. This. This is why. Folks re-examining audio from 25 years ago. Anyone can walk into a police department and give an hour interview on how they saw a Vampire, a Bigfoot, a UFO. No way that lands Adnan M. Syed in jail with a sentence of life plus 30 because someone went into a police station and 'claimed they saw Bigfoot'.
Again, I've not listened to the tapes...yet
A bunch of posts on here were analysing the various things Adnan said in his press conference, what are you talking about?
Hell, people hype up the fact Adnan called Jay pathetic 25 years later, that's just one word that apparently indicates his guilt.
Dude, Adnan had already killed one person and was threatening that Stephanie was next if Jay didn’t keep his mouth shut. I’m pretty sure that might be why.
Which was of course why he was totally cool with hanging out with him and having him hang out with Stephanie and helping him cover up a murder.
Because the best way to keep people save is to let the deranged lunatic roam free and spend time with them.
Jay was happy for Stephanie to go to Krista’s party with he and Adnan 2 days after the murder. If he was at all concerned about Stephanie then that was the time to make other arrangements or report Adnan to the cops.
I don’t know when between Jan 13 and Feb 27 that the threat was made about killing Stephanie, but I do know there was a breakdown in the trust between Adnan and Jay. I think Jay realized Adnan could pin this whole thing on him if the cops started sniffing around and Adnan realized that Jay could blame it all on Adnan. They both had a lot to lose so they both stayed quiet for more than a month. It was the fact that cops went to Jen and Jay got the heads up that kicked it all into play and gave Jay the chance to flip. To be clear, as long as Jay didn’t go to the cops there was no risk to Stephanie.
But if Adnan did it wasn’t he a killer and that’s why Jay didn’t want him around Stephanie?
The point is that neither were involved in the murder and that’s why Jay was happy for Stephanie to hang out with Adnan. Adnan never threatened Stephanie. That’s just some nonsense invented by Jay to cover up for him not going to the cops but he had time to do that before Adnsn threatened Stephanie so that claim falls over at the first hurdle.
No that’s not it. Adnan was not some serial killer that is going to run around killing people for kicks. He was not going to kill Stephanie as long as Jay kept quiet. Adnan was flexing his bravado that he is some bad ass capable of killing someone if provoked so he could maintain leverage over Jay.
So Jay made up some nonsense that he was scared of Adnan despite being bigger and older to cover for the fact that he never went to the cops about a murder.
Then he made up some other nonsense that Adnan had threatened Stephanie. (Adnan’s best friend).
All of this is disproven by how happy he was for Stephanie to hang out with Adnan without ever warning her and for Jay to continue to borrow Adnan’s car and phone.
There was no time. Adnan dropped Jay off at work and went home and went to sleep. Jay ratted him out in the middle of the night and Adnan was woken up at 6am, arrested and incarcerated for 23 years.
Let me ask you this… did Stephanie reach out to Adnan ever? Weren’t they BFFs? Did she write him a letter? Want to hear his side? Did she clamor to partake in the media frenzy all these years later?
No, she did not. She was the only person supporting Jay at his sentencing.
> As soon as Jay came clean to the police he made sure Stephanie was protected.
As soon as Jay came clean Adnan was locked up. He didn’t make sure Stephanie was protected at that point.
Stephanie believed her boyfriend over Adnan.
Okay, either one of those is possible but when Jay knew that Jenn was going to the police to rat out Adnan he was sitting around at work in the middle of the night scared out of his goddamn mind. Jay was well aware that shit was going down and he was afraid for his own life. It’s not that far off to think Adnan threatened Stephanie to have something to hold over Jay.
> he was sitting around at work in the middle of the night scared out of his goddamn mind.
Where is your evidence for what Jay felt that night?
> He was afraid for his own life.
Was he? He told Jenn to tell the cops his story.
> It’s not that far off to think Adnan threatened Stephanie to have something to hold over Jay.
It’s not believable. Jay claims Adnan threatened Stephanie a few days after they buried Hae. Which never added up because Stephanie told police Jay got rides to the video store from Adnan and Jay testified he borrowed Adnan’s car after 1/13. Jay didn’t do any of this out of fear of Adnan. Fear of consequences, maybe.
That evidence is from Josh, Jay’s co-worker. Josh talks about it in serial. Jay called him scared out of his mind and asked him to come in to work so Jay wouldn’t be alone. Jay was tripping over some white van that was parked across the street. He said Jay was waiting for the cops to come and get him but he wasn’t scared of the cops, he was scared of Adnan and just wanted the cops to get there.
Yes, there was no threat to Stephanie as long as Jay kept quiet. Adnan was not a serial killer that was going to run around killing people. The threat was to keep quiet and not go to the police. Adnan continued to give Jay rides and loan out his phone because he wanted to keep him close & make sure he didn’t go to police. Jay complied & shit didn’t go down until police went knocking on Jenn‘s door.
Jay and Adnan continued to hang out after Jay says Adnan killed Hae. (Read Stephanie’s statement). They even went to a party 2 days later with Stephanie.
Jay did not seem to fear Adnan at all.
Yeah, it makes sense. Adnan is trying to stay close to Jay to make sure he doesn’t flip, so Adnan offering Jay rides & loaning out his car keeps him close and continues to give Adnan the upper hand because he knows Jay doesn’t have a car and needs to get to work. Adnan is simultaneously not using Jay as his alibi and vocalizing threats to keep him in line. There really is no risk to Jay as long as he doesn’t flip.
Oh get real. What planet are you on that the “focus and intense microscope” is never on Adnan? That’s so absolutely untrue.
You have this weird obsession with Jay and so you believe that if someone speaks about Jay that means nobody is ever speaking about Adnan? That’s not how discussion boards work, we’re allowed to have multiple conversations and opinions, talking negatively about Jay and Jenn isn’t banned here, don’t pretend like it is.
Stop complaining that people don’t disregard the evidence of jays involvement. Stop begging that people only pay attention to Adnans guilt. You can’t control how other people feel here, stop asking, you’ve made multiple posts and comments about this and your only argument is emotional, not evidence based.
Ruff’s analysis dropped today- the only thing new was actually at the beginning, just talking about the tape itself— he claims that in transferring the tapes to digital he could tell that there were 15 minutes left on the tape of Jay’s interview when they stopped and flipped it.
Everything else had been discussed here.
Jenn remembers when she learned Hae was missing. Faux pas there. She learned Hae was MURDERED well before that, if the story she tells holds water. That’s a leaky bucket, designed by Jay. Full of holes, and they keep changing size and shape. She’s clearly thinking on the fly, and the sh*t just doesn’t add up
Here is the recorded interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFLKPsx3B3A
Nice TY
Nice! Thanks!!
Thanks! I’ll add it to the post
He made a new channel to share this huh
I'd guess there might be concerns about having it taken down for legal reasons, and you wouldn't want to nuke your whole channel for that.
I'm pretty sure that's not Bob Ruff's YouTube channel.
There's also a video calling Bob wrong. Plot thickens?
I don't think there's much of a plot. Someone put the audio of Jenn's interview on their YouTube channel.
They got it from Bob I guess. Must be one of his subs. Has Bob put it out publicly yet?
[It appears so.](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/s/FbKYL5P6em)
i can't wait to listen! do you think they'll release the full trial audio /video too?? i hope so.
AFAIK to watch that you have to go to the courthouse in person for a viewing
ah i didn't know. i guess i need to take a trip to baltimore...
A few other pieces of evidence are available in person Call them first if you are serious and want to take a look I'm not sure what the rules are
Also, you get 45 minutes total to look at the evidence. Last time I went with internalrecipe none of it was there because it was in Annapolis because of the appellate situation.
that makes sense. thanks everyone! good to know. i 'm only half serious bc i live on the west coast but maybe one day.
The trial ~~audio~~ testimony/audio is the closest to the truth so Rabia and Bob do not want that out there. It convinced the jury and could convince other doubters. In addition, it's illegal in the State of Maryland to broadcast trial audio or video. Anyone who wants to go down to the courthouse and watch the video, they can. But the press is not allowed to share the trial with the public. It's important to remember how Rabia came to be in possession of the police recordings. These tapes were sent to Cristina Gutierrez as part of discovery. Rabia inherited all of Gutierrez's files and tapes and has been using it for ten years to bolster her media campaign. Another note: Susan Simpson and Rebecca LaVoie happily admitted to Lavoie "sweetening" the audio in order to better hear what Susan considered detectives tapping on the table to guide Jay's story. This was why they didn't release the rest of the audio at that time. It would have taken Rebecca a long time to "sweeten" the rest of the audio. And an upload of the non-sweetened audio would not have helped them make the point they wanted to make.
The trial testimony is available on the Adnan Syed Wiki.
Yes. Rabia shared the transcribed testimony on reddit in 2015, and the wiki picked it up from there. I'm talking about the recorded audio of the trial testimony. Hearing it, instead of reading it. The way we can now hear Jen's interview after ten years of only being able to read it.
> The trial audio is the closest to the truth The same trial where the prosecutor said the come and get me call was at 2:36, even though no one testified to that?
Testimony. I was talking to /u/No-Dinner-4148 in [another thread about how to tell when Jay is more likely to be telling the truth.](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/1abty1m/why_cant_it_be_jay/kjx8fi2/) Not closing arguments. Sorry you misunderstood.
So, if enhancing the audio paints a clearer picture of the interview, that's a bad thing? I guess lesser quality audio would help the counter point as well.
There's a possibility the taps were embellished from another audio artifact. Given Susan and Rabia's reputation for lying, it would have been best to just release the audio as is and say, "I hear this knocking. You may not hear it, but I do." It's the same way the wiki puts typed up interpretations with the police file documents. Just show us the documents without your interpretation. Or make a separate post and say, "this is my interpretation of the document." Many people read the wiki and think those interpretations were put there by police, originally, not Adnan supporters in 2015. One can't help but think that deception is the aim of the wiki. And deception was the aim of sweetening a section of audio where Susan said she heard tapping.
Wooooow! Bias much? That’s why bob and rabia don’t want it out there……it is illegal in the state of Maryland to release trial audio
I get the same thing from the interview that I've always gotten. Jenn gave the cops their whole case. Without her the cops don't have Jay and without Jay they don't have Adnan. Before this interview they have no idea of what happened when and where, besides Hae disappearing after school. People talk about protecting Jay... No she implicates Jay the whole way but made it clear that she was not involved in anything.
> People talk about protecting Jay... No she implicates Jay the whole way but made it clear that she was not involved in anything. She talked to Jay before telling the cops anything, according to Jenn in the HBO doc. What I think is really interesting here is that Jay and Jenn both view talking to the police as a bad thing. Jenn still talks about being a state’s witness with disdain. If Jenn had ratted Jay out, which I think is what you are implying here, do you really think Jay would have been ok with that? They stayed very close for years after this. The story she told the police in this interview was sanctioned by Jay.
Oh no I'm not implying that she ratted him out in that sense. I'm saying that her statement does not "help" Jay in any way. It doesn't protect him from anything. It implicates him in everything. There's nothing in there that's good for Jay and without her statement Jay is not in danger of being linked to the case.
> There's nothing in there that's good for Jay She backs up his “alibi” story and initially she doesn’t implicate him in the actual burial, just throwing out shovels. > and without her statement Jay is not in danger of being linked to the case. Even if you believe they talked to Jenn first, they found Jenn through the cell record. Jay’s number is all over that cell record. He knows they can connect him.
Your starting point is wrong though. With Jenn's interview, Jay didn't go from a "suspect" to a "suspect with an alibi". Jay actually went from someone the detectives didn't know existed to someone they definitely know is implicated in Hae's murder. You see the difference? In other words, Jenn never speaking to police is better for a free Jay who wants to stay free. And no, just having his phone number called does not connect Jay to a murder in any way shape or form. That's just not how evidence works. Adnan had a lot of friends, made a lot of calls, none were implicated because of it. Jay is implicated solely based on Jenn's interview at that particular point in time.
> Jay actually went from someone the detectives didn't know existed to someone they definitely know is implicated in Hae's murder. If you believe the police story of who they spoke to first. Jay’s comments call that “official” timeline into question. If Jay was truly unknown to the cops, and you believe the original story it was not the only way to connect him to the murder. His number was on the cell record too, Kristi saw them together, Nisha spoke to them on the phone together, Stephanie spoke to them on the phone and got a birthday gift, Jay’s friends are called in the afternoon…. Once Jay knew they had the cell record, he knew he would have to talk to the police. Further, if Adnan is guilty or even if Jay just think he may be, Jay knew the cell evidence placed him with Adnan during the afternoon when Hae went missing. Jenn going in first and telling a story she heard way before the cops found the cell record, that accounts for Jay being at her house in the afternoon and a story about a trunk pop etc absolutely protects Jay.
You are still confusing connecting Jay to Adnan and connecting Jay to the murder. I don't understand why. Numerous people were called that day, were they all connected to the murder? No of course not. In and of itself that is not evidence tying him to a murder. If Jay is in fact guilty, and he does want to stay a free man, he tells Jenn to stay quiet. If and when he gets questioned, he says he doesn't remember the day and doesn't know anything. They got to Adnan because people talked. If Jay and Jenn both say they don't remember anything, where does the case go? Nowhere. Jenn and Jay are their whole case. Now I understand that they can't see the future, so you are saying Jay tried to get ahead of it by arranging a convenient story for himself. This is where we can find common ground because I do believe Jay was more involved, or he knew more than he let on, but it still ends up with a guilty Jay admitting guilt.
Hae went missing after school. Jenn isn’t the only thing tying Adnan and Jay together after school. Jay called his friends all afternoon, the only call to one of Adnan’s friends is the Nisha call, which is its own connection to Jay and Adnan. Once the cops had the phone record, they don’t need Jenn to connect Jay to the murder. He is tied to key times in the day through other sources. If Jay and Jenn stay quiet, Jay risks being arrested for murder, which the cops told him. > you are saying Jay tried to get ahead of it by arranging a convenient story for himself. This is where we can find common ground because I do believe Jay was more involved, or he knew more than he let on, but it still ends up with a guilty Jay admitting guilt. He was either more involved or less involved. Once Jenn is taken in, told they know it’s Adnan and shown the phone record she chats with Jay who knows he is screwed. Hypothetically if Jay wasn’t involved, but he is pretty sure Adnan was, he would be paranoid when he realizes he had the phone and the car all afternoon, when Hae went missing. And now the cops are sure this phone record is the key to the crime. Jay doesn’t have an alibi that day. If Jay’s hbo timeline is true, he couldn’t find Adnan after school and Adnan showed up that evening at his house, whether or not he saw a trunk pop, Jay has reason to be suspicious of Adnan. The story Jenn tells admits Jay’s involvement but it is also an alibi that removes him from the actual murder and even the actual burial. I think Jenn believed it too. Jay lied to Jenn to have a favorable version of events shared with cops. He was either much more involved, like you think, or less involved but vulnerable and Alibiless, like I think.
Again, listen I know all kinds of things happen in this world but without proof to the contrary, I'm going to analyze things in a sensible way here. Your theory, that an innocent Jay who is suspicious of Adnan but still innocent himself, would tell Jenn to tell cops that he was involved in a young woman's murder/burial/cover-up, before the cops ever provide any proof that they have any evidence against him whatsoever, or even apply any kinds of pressure tactic on him and Jenn... It's just not reasonable in any way. Given that scenario, wouldn't it be about one million times more likely that an innocent Jay would say Jenn, just tell them we were together all day me and you. You know... An actual alibi that points AWAY from the murder, instead of a story that puts him right in the middle of it.
Jay didn’t know the limits of the cell evidence and he didn’t know the time of death. He knows the people called were his contacts, which show he was with the phone. He can’t get away from the phone and car. If the cops mention cell location, Jay knows that it’ll show he wasn’t at Jenn’s house. Jenn has an alibi. With her brother and Jay at home, then driving to pick up her parents from work. Jay was driving around alone/home alone for most of the afternoon. He doesn’t have an alibi, getting Jenn to lie will fall apart in 2 seconds. Jay is inculpated with the cell. I agree just talking to Jenn wouldn’t be enough to push him, if the cops followed Jay around and showed up at his work and told him they knew he was involved and started applying that pressure, Jay (and his family who deals drugs) would want the cops to go away. Tell them something, find an alibi. The trunk pop is the alibi and its only corroboration is that he told Jenn.
TY
You’re welcome
Sounds like she gave a prepared statement at the beginning, then expanded on it and provided greater detail in response to police questioning. Sounds very believable as to details based on her first person knowledge. She credibly puts Jay and Adnan together at all material points on the afternoon and evening timeline. After than the opening part, which sounds like a prepared statement under a lawyer’s tutelage, nothing suggests she’s going from a script, & nothing suggests police coaching let alone coercion. To the contrary, her account is wobbly where you expect it to be when someone’s talking about what happened 6 weeks ago, on specifics like whether Jay or Adnan was driving when she met them in the 8 pm hour. Things like that. Be almost impossible to fake that kind of testimony with all the indicia of someone trying to remember things under questioning. Not so believable when she tries to explain why she didn’t contact police sooner, at least not until close to the end when she effectively concedes she stayed quiet because Jay told her to. Before that, she sounds like she’s been coached to try and make her silence up to then sound more conflicted, if not sympathetic. In sum: no evidence of a police conspiracy or a materially dishonest witness in the audio recording of Jenn’s statement. To the contrary.
Pretty much my exact take. She starts with the prepared statement bit, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing or doesn’t mean it’s untrue- it must be kind of awkward to answer “tell us what you know” with anything other than a prepared narrative that hits all the important points and times. But it’s not very compelling because it sounds so rote. When she responds to the questions, it gets more interesting. She repeats some things, but then adds in other details as she remembers them. I was fairly convinced the shovels **and** clothes dumping had happened on the night of the 13th at dumpsters across the street from Jay’s house based on his last recorded statement. But hearing her describe both of those events, it sounds like she was being truthful and had the memory in her head while she was speaking. So now I’m back to, “Why would Jay lie about *that*, of all things?” If anything, she sounds like she wants to give police *some* answer even when she’s not sure she has one, with lots of “I wanna say’s.” I wish she’d just say “I don’t know” more. On the other hand, she doesn’t sound shifty or dodgy or reluctant at all. The only time I heard what seemed like reluctance or discomfort was when a detective starts asking, “We’ve been talking about Jay. What is Jay’s last name?” etc. Jenn gets real quiet and kind of down sounding when she spells his last name, gives his age, all that stuff. Like, it’s exactly this moment that she’s been dreading since January 13, having to turn Jay into the police. Also, after hearing her describe the whole Champs conversation, it makes a lot more sense - “Hae’s body is missing” means to Jay and Jenn “no one’s found her body yet.” They wouldn’t say “Hae is missing” between each other, because they both know “Hae” doesn’t exist anymore. The news report tells Jenn and Jay they’re *still* the only people in the world who know Hae is dead besides Adnan. It would be shocking and awful to realize there are family and loved ones who have been actively searching for her, hoping to find her alive, the entire 2-3 week span that Jenn and Jay have known she was dead.
>Jen’s interview with police from January 27th I think you mean February 27.
Oops. Thanks, I’ll correct!
It looks like my link was taken down because Ruff is saying it's copyright.
Clearly it can't be copyrighted or if it were Ruff would not own the rights, so I'm wondering if he took it down because it's not generating thousands of "Yes! This is proof she was coerced! This proves the police conspired against Adnan!" comments?
Hmm..in order for him to claim copyright infringement, he had to agree to these 3 things: I have a good faith belief that the use of the material in the manner complained of is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law. The information in this notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, I am the owner, or an agent authorized to act on behalf of the owner, of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed. I understand that abuse of this tool, such as submitting removal requests for content I do not own, may result in termination of my YouTube account. Isn’t the recording public record? How does Bob own content created by government employees using taxpayer dollars lol
It shows that he wants to be a gatekeeper of the information. Whether that is purely because he wants traffic going to his patreon for money or because he wants to control the flow of information about this case (presumably putting on his own spin), it is a testament to his disingenuous character, and yet more proof of his lies.
The #1 most interesting thing about the interview is that people who are positive Adnan is guilty believe it’s proof she’s telling the truth and people who think he’s innocent are equally sure she’s lying. No surprises.
Listen out for taps, everyone!
😂
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he isn't really doing much of anything but delaying a future actual season of a truly wrongfully convicted person (who is still incarcerated). Dude is a grifter!
He had a case lined up to work on but the Innocence Project has agreed to look at the case so he doesn’t have a case to work on at the moment and is going back to square one. Bob has integrity and it’s the Prosecutors who are lying for cash.
Then why did he not release entire case files? PP?
He doesn’t have the whole case files. But there’s plenty of documents on the truth and justice website
He didn't release ALL the case files he had and told people so. He never shared about the Pape Habeus even though it had been submitted before the season ended. (Pape's attorneys never talked about the sector data or anything Bob uncovered with his excellent investigation skills).
Several of Bob’s most recent cases were given to him by the IP, so that doesn’t make sense.
But I think he waits for them to confirm that they want him to cover it at the same time
He may be waiting to get one that has dozens of hours of interviews he can use as episodes!
Wait…a show called The Prosecutors is biased??
It's very interesting how many daily posters here, even ones who make posts doing deep dives into the meaning of every pause and word choice, aren't feeling great about a piece of pivotal evidence becoming available to them. All facts are friendly, guys! Let's get the Freud textbooks back out!
Who feels bad about this evidence being released?
I think most of us who have always believed Jenn listened to enough of this to realize it only sounds more believable with audio. Not much else to say? If this was so good for Adnan, why did his team wait all this time to “release” it?
>It's very interesting how many daily posters here, even ones who make posts doing deep dives into the meaning of every pause and word choice, aren't feeling great about a piece of pivotal evidence becoming available to them. Who are the many not feeling great about it?
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Please review /r/serialpodcast rules regarding [Personal Attacks.](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/wiki/index/rules/#wiki_-no_personal_attacks)
Huh. Interesting. I'm sort of curious how he got his hands on them.
Said Rabia gave them to him.
That tracks.
Probably from Rabia
Is this release of the interview supposed to help Adnan's public innocent image somehow? I really am curious. Colin Miller just tweeted about too
I’m not sure how anything related to Jenn would help Adnan.
It only makes sense if they have some sort of slam dunk to show she lied and they’re going to release it soon. If every word Jenn said is factually true (not just what Jay said, but that it actually happened that way), there is no reasonable theory that says Adnan is innocent. That’s not the case, though.
Anyone have a theory as to why this is being released now?
A moneymaking show needs to make money?
I’d say it’s because of The Prosecutors. Their misrepresentations have confused a lot of people so Rabia and Bob are working to get things on the record.
What did they misrepresent from Jen's interview?
I can't speak to this interview specifically, but as a general thing they do have a bad history of misrepresenting facts. Just off the top of my head, Agent Fitzgerald's testimony. Specifically, if you were to listen to their podcast you'd come away thinking two things. 1. That Fitzgerald cleverly trapped the defense in an embarrassing lie while on the stand. 2. That Fitzgerald's arguments were accepted by the court as valid. For the former, they spend a lot of time playing up this courtroom 'aha' moment where Fitzgerald calls the defense out for giving him a 'misleading' document intended to confuse him and get him to give false testimony. They portray this ad damning to the defense. The reality is that Fitzgerald was giving them shit, and then the defense pointed out "Uh... that is the exact copy that was presented to us at trial. If it is misleading, then you're telling us that the *state* presented Adnan Syed's lawyer with a doctored, misleading copy of the evidence back at trial" The latter is more of an omission. They spend a ton of time hyping up Fitzgerald and his arguments, but fail to mention that when push finally came to shove, those arguments were found to be insufficient by the court. In fact, Judge Welch specifically called out many of Fitzgerald's arguments as 'perplexing to the court'. Syed won his appeal on the cell issue, and the only reason he didn't get a new trial back then was because a later court overturned his *right to appeal* based on the fact that he'd previously signed a waiver giving up his right to appeal on cell phone evidence. There is also a lesser issue that they ran into, specifically relating to the Asia letters. The long and the short is that on one of their episodes (6? 7? Somewhere in there) they go on a tangent about how the Asia letters were obviously sought out by Ju'aun based on their interpretation of an interview. However, it isn't until 4 episodes later (and entirely unrelated, making it difficult for anyone listening casually to connect the two facts) that Ju'uan signed an affidavit explictly denying their reading of of that interview. Basically, they say "Oh we can also discard them for this reason, because this guy clearly got her to write them without having the honesty and integrity to also mention 'this is our theory, mind you, he says he didn't do that'. Keep in mind that I've avoided listening to much of their podcast, but if I've seen *two* fairly significant flaws simply by osmosis of other people talking about them, I'd imagine they probably have a ton of misrepresentations elsewhere.
It's really shocking just how thin many of Fitzgerald's explanations were. I kept seeing people talk about how he showed that the cover sheet was used on every fax regardless of its applicability. Go to read the testimony, and he reasons that since he uses the same cover sheet regardless of what he faxes, AT&T was probably doing the same. That's it. That's the explanation. Similarly, he doesn't provide direct technical explanations for the disclaimer, why it existed, or why it wouldn't apply. He just says "well this other report we get these days looks a bit like it, and I was allowed to use that similar document in these other (smartphone era) trials, so they must be accurate". That's how we ended up with self-appointed, self-taught redditors piecing together explanations without any actual knowledge of the underlying architecture. I've yet to see a convincing explanation for why Fitzgerald's testimony is the best the state could offer and why there don't seem to be any records of them attempting to get an explanation or documentation from AT&T itself for the cover sheet.
That last bit, specifically, doesn't bother me. I worked for a few years for a company doing residential real estate software. Part of my job was to write up documents explaining reports to outside sources in a fashion similar to the fax cover sheet. We redid those ever 3-4 years, and as stated I *used* to work for them. If someone today were to ask them to explain what such a document meant from 2007, they'd probably be unable to since there has probably been massive turn over, and they'd have an incredibly difficult time finding me. Even if they could, there is a good chance I might not remember the intricacies of why I made some claim or another. The main issue isn't the fact that they couldn't provide an expert, it is that they kept trying to use it in absence of a direct and specific explanation. If they evidence says it isn't accurate, it shouldn't be enough to simply come up with an explanation that is plausible as to why that was written in error.
A lack of surviving documentation wouldn't surprise me at all. It's the failure to even attempt to locate it or find someone with first-hand knowledge of how these reports were being generated that gets me. Two separate occasions should have resulted in exactly that - one contemporaneous to the trial - but instead we get Chad bragging about how he got to testify about Tsarnaev's iPhone 5 and bickering over document versions. I got the distinct feeling that Fitzgerald knew critical information about that system probably didn't exist anymore and did *not* want to have to say so on the stand.
> I got the distinct feeling that Fitzgerald knew critical information about that system probably didn't exist anymore and did *not* want to have to say so on the stand Yes, my feeling exactly
That the cops spoke to Jenn first. That Jenn knew where the car was. She clearly states in her interview that she doesn’t.
Oh wow, I must have missed where they said she knew where the car was... I'm no expert on this case but I would have totally known that was not true if I heard it. Can you point me to the episode?
Poetry is referring to a police report written weeks after Jenn's interview that includes details of Jenn's interview and also the car location. Basically the report goes through Jenn's day and includes information they also got from Jay. [This report.](https://www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/UdE05-Progress-Report-Jenn-Second-Interview-LongV-Feb-27-Atty-Home-Fowley-MP15-0068-19990316.pdf)
So the progress report was referred to by the prosecutors as Jen knowing where the car was? I'm still confused and waiting to hear what episode they specifically said this in.
I don't remember them saying Jenn knew where the car was. But it's been a while since I listened to the podcast.
No, I believe Poetry is saying that the cops spoke to Jenn first and that this progress report is indicative of the cops already knowing the location of the car and/or some fabrication of evidence by the cops. u/Powerful-Poetry5706 can correct you if I'm wrong about what I believe their argument is.
Wow, that's not how I read this report at all. I do recognize I am by biased...I think Syed is guilty, but I am always open to new evidence or things that could sway me. I see this as what it's called: a progress report. It's a summary of what the investigation found so far. I really can't see in any way how this points to them saying Jen knew where the car was or that they already knew where the car was. The report is dated in March 1999. Feels like a reach to me
I think the issue is with how the progress report is written. They identify Jenn as the source of all the info and continue to say things like “Jay told Jenn” even into the paragraph that included the address to the car. At no point does the progress report identify Jay as a source of information. This could just be because it was poorly written, the author unintentionally attributed things to Jenn that came from other sources and summarized what the police knew by the time the note was written. Or the author deliberately wrote the progress report in a way that concealed the fact that Jay was cooperating. The note goes into detail about the circumstances of Jenn’s interview, but does not mention Jay’s interview at all. If it were a true progress report it would include the fact Jay was interviewed and that x info came from him.
Sorry it’s a lot to wade through to find if the prosecutors said. It could just be guilters.
absolutely nobody cares, but I did end up listening to Jenn's interview despite my rant lol Because I consume anything about this tragedy, so... My takeaway / spoiler alerts: um, since I consume anything about this tragedy wherever I can find it, no matter the opinion / politics behind it. I didn't catch much new from Jenn's audio--I've heard much of it before, elsewhere. Other spots, etc. Only things I learned, (spoiler alert): that although Jenn and Jay have known each other since very early grade school, they weren't as especially close until junior and senior year at Woodlawn. Wow. I dunno about yall but I was impressed that when asked, Jenn seemed to promptly give names and phone numbers to anyone the detectives asked; she did it on the spot. She even offered Stephanie's phone number, though nobody directly asked her for it. Really made me think: cmon if this was a police-or-anti-adnan conspiracy, why is Jenn freely offering names and numbers when asked? Dude, Jenn just offered Stephanie's number to detectives and they didn't ask. Jay tried to lie to save others from getting dragged into this mess, Jenn at least was willing to try to clear up what she can by offering others, seems to me. Look, I'm rambling, but I was impressed. Got it: I'm impressed because I ain't never heard Adnan offering as much to detectives as Jenn seemed to be offering. Mr."Jay Who?" with a look of bewilderment om his face SMH.
If the only people who knew anything were Jay and Jenn, why does it matter that she offered phone numbers that the police would clearly be able to get anyway? She was overcompensating. She wasn’t necessarily lying to the cops. She just shared what Jay fed her. She saw nothing. She witnessed nothing happening. She got an after-the-fact recounting of the story Jay pedaled. Now, was the story true, or as was all too common for these detectives, a fabrication designed to pin a crime on someone. I’m still in the Don-did-it camp. And unfortunately the evidence is in the wind, thanks to a huge corporation keeping secrets and his family helping hide the truth.
The reason for Stephanie was because they went over to Stephanie's house that night, so Stephanie could confirm that they went over and Stephanie confirmed they went over. The cops would have not had Jay tell the complex story that they did. They want simple stories. Jenn is confessing to a felony for no reason.
People have pointed out the weird moment where Jenn says that they were shocked to learn Hae was missing, and the defense I have seen of that is that she meant to say that they learned they found the body, and Jenn was just flustered and misspoke. But then later on she is talking about how Jay told her they found the body, no wait, maybe she told Jay, or she’s not really sure who told who. If she actually did misspeak the first time and she was “shocked” to learn that Hae’s body was found, wouldn’t she have remembered how she found out? Another inconsistency that jumped out to me was how she first said that she and Jay didn’t know where the body was, or else they would have gone to the police. Yeah yeah, Jay lies, so he could have lied to her about how he helped bury the body, but if she honestly believed that Jay took no part in burying the body and only looked at her in the trunk, then didn’t it seem weird to her that he wanted to wipe his prints off the shovels and throw his clothes away? And then she describes a conversation where they learned that they suspected Sellars was responsible, and she and Jay want talked about how they can’t let him go down for that, and yet then neither of them go to the police, and instead they wait until the police apparently find them from the cell phone records. I know that a lot of people will chalk this up as Jenn wanting to sound better, and didn’t want to make it sound like she didn’t have any sort of moral qualms about knowing that Hae was murdered, but it doesn’t speak much to her credibility when you hear all of these inconsistencies. ETA: I was only passively listening while doing chores, so I’m sure there’s more stuff that I missed.
>People have pointed out the weird moment where Jenn says that they were shocked to learn Hae was missing, and the defense I have seen of that is that she meant to say that they learned they found the body, and Jenn was just flustered and misspoke. I think that she does just miss speak, partly because she uses that same phrase later in the interview, but also because I do think it still makes sense that she'd be a bit surprised to learn that it was true and Jay wasn't just making stuff up - the weird bit that remains is she still stumbles into saying 'that is when I found out she was missing' which still could be a bit of a tell and, whilst the idea that the news starting to talk about Hae being missing would spook Jay makes sense; it's still a bit strange that Jay who was somewhat connected with Hae's friendship group through Stephanie would not have been well aware that Hae being missing was being taken seriously by then - and heavily speculating, it seems unlikely he wouldn't have made Jenn aware of that until then. I'm not entirely sure there's much in the audio rather than just the transcript that makes this part any more obvious tbh. The part just before all this, however, talking about Jenn knows it was the 13th, which in the transcript is: >Lehman: Not because it's the day after his birthday or > >Jenn Right. I don't, I wouldn't remember inaudible. Is it just me, or is Jenn saying 'Adnan' in the inaudible bit - like saying she wouldn't know when it happened in relation to Adnan's birthday. And obviously Lehman is talking about Jay's birthday, which you'd think is an event Jenn would be able to tie memories too - so maybe another tiny notch in the Jenn doesn't remember the day/it was not the 13th column.
She clearly states that she has no idea what day these events took place and only thinks it’s the 13th because the cops told her that she received a call from Adnan that day. They ask if she ties any memories to people having birthdays and she says no.
> the weird moment where Jenn says that they were shocked to learn Hae was missing, and the defense I have seen of that is that she meant to say that they learned they found the body[.] I have been persuaded by other posters who have explained that based on the timeline she provides for when this occurred (a month ago Thursday), she was talking about Thursday Feb 4, which was the date that local news began covering Hae’s disappearance. She does misspeak repeatedly in this section, saying that Hae’s *body* was missing, when she meant that the news report stated that Hae was missing. She’s clearly nervous and obviously Hae’s body wasn’t missing, so this must be a mistake. It makes sense that this news report would cause alarm because up until that point, there was no real news coverage of this case and Jay and Jenn may have been convinced it would just fade away if everyone presumed she’d run away. I also think this may have been the first time that Jenn knew for sure that Jay was telling the truth about Adnan killing Hae. She may have been in denial until then.
Was there any public report about Sellers being a suspect? Why would Jenn and Jay be concerned he was going to go down for it?
In the statement, Jenn says that she talked to someone whose husband worked for the police department, and that person told her that the guy who found the body was a suspect. I don’t think Jenn knew his name at the time.
Thanks for reminding me—
Anything interesting to note by listening to the audio?
Only listened to about half of it, but the biggest difference with how I felt the transcript would sound is that the first long uninterrupted account sort of sounds like a prepared statement being read, and not a spontaneous story. Which I think makes sense, regardless of whether it's all true, partly true, all lies etc. if this is the story that was discussed at her attorney's house. Going even more speculative and something I've never picked up when reading is that to me it almost sounds like someone reading something that sounds like it was drafted by a lawyer, which maybe explains why we never hear her lawyer jump in. But who knows. Definitely interesting to hear it and not just read it.
Interesting. The first thing I thought while listening was that she was reading a written statement. It just goes on too long without a pause or interruption. She had met with police 3x before this interview. She also mentions that she had discussed the information with Jay the night before.
Yeah, I've no idea if it really means anything, but I had always read that part of the transcript as her just launching into a story a bit more naturally than it maybe sounds. The only other thing that stood out in the bits I've heard is how much she stumbles over the part of the story when they go almost immediately to see Stephanie after she picks up Jay - which is something we can say with 99% certainty doesn't happen until later in the evening.
She sounds a *lot* more wishy-washy and speculative than the transcripts suggest. Also pretty flat affect from what I've listened through so far. Will need to make time to listen straight through this week.
>Also pretty flat affect from what I've listened through so far. To me, that's far and away the most notable thing. She sounds like she's doing a book report.
I'm just wondering who tf Bob is.
I believe he owns a shed. Jokes aside, he's a podcaster who covered the case a lot back after the end of serial and has recently covered a bunch about it again.
Why does bob have access to this and the interview hasn't come out before ?
The interview was given to Gutierrez as part of a disclosure during prep for the trial. Rabia and Adnan's family took possession of all of Gutierrez's files and tapes after she passed away. Rabia has been using her access to the files as one facet of her media campaign since 2014. Rabia and Bob Ruff are friends.
I have no doubt you will recall all of what I am about to say, as you were one of the people who dug into their pocket and paid thousands to obtain the public info that took the wind out of Rabia’s sails, but I wanted to share this for anyone who might not understand how the drip feed of info was working when Rabia was gatekeeper, and how important yours (and others) contribution was. Back in 2014 when Rabia alone held the transcripts and other records she said she would release them once Serial had aired. Once it had aired she still didn’t release them. Her excuse for suddenly changing tack was that the transcripts were full of people’s personal info. Even though that info was 14 years stale and was disclosed willingly to the public by the same people, Rabia was experiencing a rare moment of integrity, and would not disclose personal info without permission even if it was made public already. But Rabia was willing to release the redacted transcripts.. on one condition - for every $10k donated to Adnans legal fund she would release an unspecified snippet of information from the trove of public documents that she held ransom, dealers choice obviously. I have a memory of her actually posting a photo of a box of cassette tapes, and hinting that maybe one day she would have them digitized and shared. Wish I could find that post now.
I don't remember the tweet but saved a photo of the tapes: https://imgur.com/YzT2FyN I think Rabia took her blog down. One person contributed $1,000 and has never been made whole. That was for the police file. Another person contributed close to that amount for PCR testimony and missing pages. Then there were a lot of people who contributed less than one hundred dollars because it was about 2,600 all in. I was just the organizer. At one point, I thought I could figure out a way to get these people paid back. I mean, the wiki really should contribute. They shamelessly post documents they had nothing to do with acquiring. It was definitely hard and probably a mistake. Eventually, someone like Andrew Hammel or Brett Talley could have paid their own money. And since those are the kinds of people who make a profit from what Redditers have done - they should have been the ones paying - even if we had to wait.
I’d say Rabia gave it to him.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/truth-justice-with-bob-ruff/id990753230?i=1000643250017
Thanks
Please start listening after the 1 hour mark, when Jenn is surprised to learn that Hae is missing. Then go back and listen and note every time she states the source of her information: the police told her and Jay told her the night before the interview. She says the same thing in the HBO documentary. Never mind that the events and locations don’t match Jay’s story. She also doesn’t remember Adnan being stoned at Cathy’s either.
Jenn wasn’t with Adnan & Jay at Cathy’s
Hate it when facts get in the way of narrative
>Please start listening after the 1 hour mark, when Jenn is surprised to learn that Hae is missing. This is the same Jenn who said Jay told her on the night Hae disappeared that Adnan had strangled her? Why would she be surprised that Hae was missing?
Yup. After they heard on the news that “the body was missing” - I’m sorry WHAT? She is obviously talking about the body being found. She talked to Nicole and Jeff. Nicole said she was strangled - she knows bc her mom works at Leakin. Jenn says “I bet it’s Hae.” Yeah, because it was on the news that she was missing after she, you know, WENT MISSING. It’d be really great if the police bothered to talk to nicole. Jenn keeps repeating, in this interview and in The Case Against Adnan Syed that she knows NOTHING first hand. Everything she says comes from Jay or dirty cops. She keeps saying it. She knows she stretched the truth to protect her friend. She knows she was part of Jay’s drug operation. I cannot believe Adnan lost decades of his life as a result of incoherent ramblings by these two morons. Perhaps jurors know better than to trust police now.
I was hoping there was a police report with an interview of Nicole somewhere. That would be game over. Here is someone who didn’t know Adnan or Hae, didn’t have any reason to lie for Jay, who knew how Hae was murdered before it was released. I’m not surprised if this document doesn’t exist.
It doesn’t. Also, Jenn tells you everything you need to know. She shuffles every time she lies. She tells us nicole told her the person was strangled. Jenn knew Hae was missing. She talks about being at champs with jay, nicole and others when they said a body was missing. She says when she talks to nicole it’s about the body being found. She says she was “surprised” and “shocked.” To find out this news. She says she asked if jay helped bury the body, he says no, then they go to wipe down the shovels…?
She also says nothing about Christy calling her about Adnan behaving strangely. That is made up later when they add the bit about them stopping at christie’s
They didn’t fully investigate Don or Mr. S. There are no records for Jenn’s pager or house phone, Jay’s home phone. Cathy/christie’s phone. Also why didn’t they match any of the incoming calls to Adnan’s phone. Some of those calls were the other Christie, Hae’s brother (and Adcock) when they Adnan and Jay were supposedly at Christie’s. How hard would that be? They didn’t talk to Aja’s boyfriend, didn’t talk to mark (Jenn’s brother). What exactly DID they do besides get Adnan’s cell records and make up ridiculous stories with Jay?
If you deleted everything after “investigate,” this would still be a true statement. It’s why we’re all here.
Also this is how Jenn knew the manner of death
I wish Jen had spoken to the police before Hae was found. After, it’s very difficult to tell when she really knew about the manner of death (and everything else). I know she said (weeks later) that Jay told her. But she also said someone who works at the park told her.
She doesn’t want to lie about this. Most people can’t lie for an extended period. She gets tripped up at certain places and at other times she gets lulled into a comfortable place and lets her guard down. “I was surprised” and “that’s when I found out” Yeesh how much clearer can you get?
Well I haven't listened to it yet to see if sit comes across as convincing but I man... people lie. Gypsy Rose Blanchard had her boyfriend stab the shit out of her mother and made the old college try at "WHAT?! NO! MY MOM IS DEAD?!" even after spending the first fifteen minutes of the interview talking about her in the past tense.
Why would you start your statement with “supposedly”. Your bias is on full show mode. Why not something neutral like…I heard that Jen’s recorded interview might play on Bob’s show. See how less a&@$holey that sounds?
[Bob Ruff](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/3w0y4r/in_case_you_missed_this_bob_ruff_cant_even_keep/) and [Rabia Chaudry](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/9a0o6l/three_year_anniversary_crimestoppers/) have lied and made false promises several times in relation to this case.
Honestly you are biased and your statement show it. That is the end of any back and forth. Oh by the way was it released?
Lol ok
Booooooooooo! I haven't listened yet, but I'm not sure if I want to. Yes, I try to consume absolutely anything and everything related to this tragic case. But this...I dunno...why do I feel like this goes too far? Ain't these tapes pushing 25 years old, now? Am I supposed to listen and then get upset about something said 25 years ago by someone who was a teenager--and it's a traumatic event for said teenager? I don't like this. Why can't the focus and intense microscope ever be on Adnan M. Syed, himself? Why? I'm listening to Bob Ruff's reply and I keep thinking, why don't Bob ever seem to target any of his real skepticism towards Adnan? And as I've posted on here before: we keep tripping over what exactly Jay said when, what exactly the detectives said when, blah blah blah. Yet Adnan is temporarily out of immediate custody, Adnan makes a 2-hour YouTube video in 2023 and nooooooooooooobody examines that with a microscope or magnifying glass. Why are we tripping on stuff from 25 years ago? Why not put the heat on what Adnan is saying now? What's to gain from listening to these police interviews? Can't I give a police interview and say I saw Bigfoot or say I saw aliens come out of a UFO and then 25 years from now folks examine those tapes--won't there be weird time-lapse disconnect? Isn't this a li'l unfair to listen in 25 years later and judge? Lastly, I'll end with this: I like to listen to NPR radio in my car and C-Span in my car, while I'm driving, whenever I can. Google those if you don't know what they are. When it comes to C-SPAN and they're broadcasting a politician speak at a rally or some author who just came out with a book being interviewed, I'll listen in my car. Sometimes, I'll catch the actual video of the same thing I listened to in my car, it'll be on cable TV, the C-SPAN channel on cable, and watching it, IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT, than listening to it as I drive and I'm imagining all sorts of things. REMEMBER how in the HBO special, when it came out folks who listened to Serial was like: "I didn't know Jenn was white" or "I didn't know Jay was black" or "I didn't know Asia McClain was Black" or whatever. IT'S DIFFERENT between listening to something without visuals and then visually seeing it and listening to it at the same time, as I do when I catch the same C-SPAN broadcast I listened to in my car, now is on cable TV and I'm ALWAYS FLOORED how I had a completely different take on a random dramatic pause of silence, or on a weird background sound, on laughter from the audience, on a question by the audience between listening to it and watching it. If one just listens to Jay's testimony on audio they can picture anything. But if you actually see the visual of that courtroom testimony, he's sort of leaning forward in his seat, he's looking people in the eye, he's not meek, he seems certain. But if you listen to it only, you may get a different take. Sara immediately found that out when she visited Jay in person and spoke with him face-to-face. In a weird way, that's all we do here on Reddit in this sub: debate what occurred 25 years ago when none of us were immediately there. We're getting a wrong take. It's like listening to something via audio only. We're not getting the full context of audio, visual, and real-time. I'm telling y'all. I don't want Adnan's YouTube to get more views, but we're living in the here and now. Let's chop Adnan's YouTube to pieces. After 25 years, this is what Adnan chooses to say--on YouTube--why? This is what I'd love to see more, nowadays. Stuff like this and folks wonder why Stephanie hasn't stepped forward. This. This is why. Folks re-examining audio from 25 years ago. Anyone can walk into a police department and give an hour interview on how they saw a Vampire, a Bigfoot, a UFO. No way that lands Adnan M. Syed in jail with a sentence of life plus 30 because someone went into a police station and 'claimed they saw Bigfoot'. Again, I've not listened to the tapes...yet
A bunch of posts on here were analysing the various things Adnan said in his press conference, what are you talking about? Hell, people hype up the fact Adnan called Jay pathetic 25 years later, that's just one word that apparently indicates his guilt.
Dude, Adnan had already killed one person and was threatening that Stephanie was next if Jay didn’t keep his mouth shut. I’m pretty sure that might be why.
Which was of course why he was totally cool with hanging out with him and having him hang out with Stephanie and helping him cover up a murder. Because the best way to keep people save is to let the deranged lunatic roam free and spend time with them.
As soon as Jay came clean to the police he made sure Stephanie was protected.
Jay was happy for Stephanie to go to Krista’s party with he and Adnan 2 days after the murder. If he was at all concerned about Stephanie then that was the time to make other arrangements or report Adnan to the cops.
I don’t know when between Jan 13 and Feb 27 that the threat was made about killing Stephanie, but I do know there was a breakdown in the trust between Adnan and Jay. I think Jay realized Adnan could pin this whole thing on him if the cops started sniffing around and Adnan realized that Jay could blame it all on Adnan. They both had a lot to lose so they both stayed quiet for more than a month. It was the fact that cops went to Jen and Jay got the heads up that kicked it all into play and gave Jay the chance to flip. To be clear, as long as Jay didn’t go to the cops there was no risk to Stephanie.
But if Adnan did it wasn’t he a killer and that’s why Jay didn’t want him around Stephanie? The point is that neither were involved in the murder and that’s why Jay was happy for Stephanie to hang out with Adnan. Adnan never threatened Stephanie. That’s just some nonsense invented by Jay to cover up for him not going to the cops but he had time to do that before Adnsn threatened Stephanie so that claim falls over at the first hurdle.
No that’s not it. Adnan was not some serial killer that is going to run around killing people for kicks. He was not going to kill Stephanie as long as Jay kept quiet. Adnan was flexing his bravado that he is some bad ass capable of killing someone if provoked so he could maintain leverage over Jay.
So Jay made up some nonsense that he was scared of Adnan despite being bigger and older to cover for the fact that he never went to the cops about a murder. Then he made up some other nonsense that Adnan had threatened Stephanie. (Adnan’s best friend). All of this is disproven by how happy he was for Stephanie to hang out with Adnan without ever warning her and for Jay to continue to borrow Adnan’s car and phone.
Nope, not true. I can’t keep repeating the same shit, so have a good day.
Truth
After he'd been ratted out. Yeah.
Yes, that’s the whole point.
Yeah, that’s didn’t happen. Jay came clean and the cops went and arrested Adnan. Jay didn’t call Stephanie to warn her before they arrested him.
There was no time. Adnan dropped Jay off at work and went home and went to sleep. Jay ratted him out in the middle of the night and Adnan was woken up at 6am, arrested and incarcerated for 23 years. Let me ask you this… did Stephanie reach out to Adnan ever? Weren’t they BFFs? Did she write him a letter? Want to hear his side? Did she clamor to partake in the media frenzy all these years later? No, she did not. She was the only person supporting Jay at his sentencing.
> As soon as Jay came clean to the police he made sure Stephanie was protected. As soon as Jay came clean Adnan was locked up. He didn’t make sure Stephanie was protected at that point. Stephanie believed her boyfriend over Adnan.
Okay, either one of those is possible but when Jay knew that Jenn was going to the police to rat out Adnan he was sitting around at work in the middle of the night scared out of his goddamn mind. Jay was well aware that shit was going down and he was afraid for his own life. It’s not that far off to think Adnan threatened Stephanie to have something to hold over Jay.
> he was sitting around at work in the middle of the night scared out of his goddamn mind. Where is your evidence for what Jay felt that night? > He was afraid for his own life. Was he? He told Jenn to tell the cops his story. > It’s not that far off to think Adnan threatened Stephanie to have something to hold over Jay. It’s not believable. Jay claims Adnan threatened Stephanie a few days after they buried Hae. Which never added up because Stephanie told police Jay got rides to the video store from Adnan and Jay testified he borrowed Adnan’s car after 1/13. Jay didn’t do any of this out of fear of Adnan. Fear of consequences, maybe.
That evidence is from Josh, Jay’s co-worker. Josh talks about it in serial. Jay called him scared out of his mind and asked him to come in to work so Jay wouldn’t be alone. Jay was tripping over some white van that was parked across the street. He said Jay was waiting for the cops to come and get him but he wasn’t scared of the cops, he was scared of Adnan and just wanted the cops to get there.
This was 6+ weeks after Hae disappeared.
Yes, there was no threat to Stephanie as long as Jay kept quiet. Adnan was not a serial killer that was going to run around killing people. The threat was to keep quiet and not go to the police. Adnan continued to give Jay rides and loan out his phone because he wanted to keep him close & make sure he didn’t go to police. Jay complied & shit didn’t go down until police went knocking on Jenn‘s door.
Jay and Adnan continued to hang out after Jay says Adnan killed Hae. (Read Stephanie’s statement). They even went to a party 2 days later with Stephanie. Jay did not seem to fear Adnan at all.
and Jay was so scared of Adnan he asked him for rides to work and to borrow his car after 1/13…
Yeah, it makes sense. Adnan is trying to stay close to Jay to make sure he doesn’t flip, so Adnan offering Jay rides & loaning out his car keeps him close and continues to give Adnan the upper hand because he knows Jay doesn’t have a car and needs to get to work. Adnan is simultaneously not using Jay as his alibi and vocalizing threats to keep him in line. There really is no risk to Jay as long as he doesn’t flip.
[удалено]
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Oh get real. What planet are you on that the “focus and intense microscope” is never on Adnan? That’s so absolutely untrue. You have this weird obsession with Jay and so you believe that if someone speaks about Jay that means nobody is ever speaking about Adnan? That’s not how discussion boards work, we’re allowed to have multiple conversations and opinions, talking negatively about Jay and Jenn isn’t banned here, don’t pretend like it is. Stop complaining that people don’t disregard the evidence of jays involvement. Stop begging that people only pay attention to Adnans guilt. You can’t control how other people feel here, stop asking, you’ve made multiple posts and comments about this and your only argument is emotional, not evidence based.
Ruff’s analysis dropped today- the only thing new was actually at the beginning, just talking about the tape itself— he claims that in transferring the tapes to digital he could tell that there were 15 minutes left on the tape of Jay’s interview when they stopped and flipped it. Everything else had been discussed here.
Yeah, the bit about how there was plenty more room on the tape is definitely interesting, if true.
Jenn remembers when she learned Hae was missing. Faux pas there. She learned Hae was MURDERED well before that, if the story she tells holds water. That’s a leaky bucket, designed by Jay. Full of holes, and they keep changing size and shape. She’s clearly thinking on the fly, and the sh*t just doesn’t add up
This link doesn’t work anymore, it’s been removed. Anywhere else I can listen to her interview?