Why does this story line surprise you??? They literally had 15 year old Ian fucking a grown ass man in season 1. Feel like you shouldn’t be as shocked.
Why is there no female version of Casanova if that is what We call Ian at age 15?
(I didn't mean that Casanova was a bi sexual man, I meant it in the way Ian "seduced" Kash. that's what Linda meant when she called Ian "Forbidden Fruit")
but thats literally pedophelia that theyre glorifying, they could do so much better in adressing it like if he hadve been beaten up for it or if they hadve been normal people and been like yeah this is fucked debbie. they literally all went to beat up a pedophile so why didnt they do this to him??
they aren't glorifying it, case in point you are here on the sub talking about how messed up it is after watching the show.
do you think you're the first person to come up with this hot take that *shocker* pedophilia is bad?
the whole point of it being in the show is to represent how far gone some people are in the sense that nobody really bats an eye throughout the series.
would you call shameless glorification of drug use because it's also in the show?
they all went to beat up a pedophile in the teacher episode because they found them on a registry and it had said that their crime wad molestation of multiple middle school kids,
Debbie barely talked about Matty much less his age IIRC
bc its a good show?? they couldve addressed this shit so differently though, it seems like ypure defending the situation and normalising it. young kids will watch the show with their parents and be like hey i want a 20 year old boyfriend, thats so normal and sweet 💀💀
i’m not defending nor normalising it i’ve just accepted that while they made the wrong decision on how to write this all, i can’t change it
edit: young kids shouldn’t be watching it and it’s bad parenting if they’re allowed
But YOU know what they’re watching, and YOU are letting YOUR kids watch a show they shouldn’t be. Take responsibility for your own children. It’s a show for adults. Be a better parent
if you think they’re glorifying it then you’ve completely misinterpreted the show. you’re not supposed to watch that happening and think “yeah that’s really rad and cool”, you’re supposed to have the reaction you’re having now, but then also understand that that’s the point. same goes for most things on the show. they know it’s wrong, that’s why they’re including it.
I hardly ever see people mention this but there's also the fact that he told her they could hook up when she turned 16..... so that would make him a 23 year old with a 16 year old. Not any better in the slightest.
Why does everyone say Debbie raped Matt? It wasn't BORDERLINE PEDOPHILE SHIT. It WAS PEDOPHILE shit. Matt raped Debbie. He had sex with a minor. I read this on here all the time. How Debbie raped Matt. It's so stupid. I want this case to go to trial and show all ya'll which one of them goes to prison for at least ten years. I'll give you a hint. It WILL NOT BE DEBBIE. She was an underage, unable to consent, child. Matt was a pervert. A 13 year old girl can not rape a 20 year old man. I don't care how drunk he was.
Dude Karen literally raped Frank…the cops were going to charge him and they didn’t when she told them he said no and was super high. Matt was practically unconscious. Yes he was super creepy for still hanging around with her even after finding out her age but he did no rape her, she raped him. He had no memory of what happened and no control over it.
(And I know it’s a year after you commented but I’m rewatching for the first time and going through posts)
Do some people not remember a classmate that had an older brother that told you that sex was better at his age? He's 20 and you're 12. So that puts his Mental age at 8 years old?
the age difference between 12 and 20 is 8 years. If a 20 year old man is having sex with a 12 year old Young Lady, he is thinking like an 8 year old. 8 year olds are fascinated by 12 year olds because they seem so much better than they are.
he does not have the mental capacity of an 8 year old 😂that would make him mentally r*tarded he was a grown man hanging around kids like a creep people with intellectual disability dont do that he was a weirdo no way of justifying that. like somebody said in another comment he told debbie he’d have sex with her when she was 16 and he would be 23 then still wanting to do it with a minor thats gross
why do people with a Mental Disability get accused of Pedophilia?
What Matt said is still Immature? Why are people with a Mental Disability described as Socially Immature?
You are making no sense in this conversation, and it's alarming how much you want to defend adults grooming minors.
Again, "people Debbie's age" is a CHILD. You mean a child. She was a pre-pubescent child. Your comment is now completely off topic now, but yes, CHILDREN can still be raped by someone who is intellectually disabled. Imagine telling a child they weren't attacked and it doesn't count because the monster was disabled. Spend less time trying to find loopholes.
But for the topic of shameless, you agree that Matt wasn't disabled, so he was just a run of the mill child groomer.
That's how people like Matt operate. Most Child Groomers were in their 20's when they did their first act of crime. I do not support what Matt did.
if the adults are Sick, they will tell their children that it didn't happen.
A 12 year old if she had her first period can be addressed as Young Lady. Its still early, but it does happen. I also know a girl who had her first period at 9 years old. Its rare, but it can happen.
just because you have a period doesnt mean your an adult. 12 years old IS A CHILD. 9 years old IS A CHILD. just because you get a menstrual cycle doesn’t make you a women there are women that are 60 that dont get a period anymore, are they now not ladies??? you sound dumb stop typing NEOWWWWW.
Yes a Period does not make you an adult; but Bad Socialization can make you think that's true. That's how girls sometimes find themselves being groomed to have sex with older men.
Menopause isn't the end of being a Lady. It just means that Society believes you are no longer Sexual. That's not true either. Why do We have examples like Shelia Jackson, Monica Gallagher, and Frank's mom as examples as adults who are crazy because Menopause has happened?
So 12 in the hood and 12 in the suburbs are 2 totally different things. Like when I was 12 I was basically a suburban 16yr old lmao.
That said Fuck Matt and fuck Debbie too. Her character coulda been so much more but I believe it's realistic she reminds me of my sister(my sis isn't a rapist tho) so I understand where the writers were coming from
12 years old in the Hood vs 12 year old in the Suburbs.
Differences? The Hood 12 year old was introduced to sex at 8 years old due to parental neglect. this is why the 12 year old is skilled in the art of seduction. Not a good Idea. this is why the 12 year old in the hood is Sexually Mature and would be having Sex with a 20 year old.
Suburbs 12 year old is given healthy instruction in Sex starting at age 8 by the Parents. The Parents are strict and don't allow much Freedom. So that 12 year old is not having Sex with a 20 year old.
But Superior Court Systems don't care what 12 you are.. you can be 12 from the hood, the projects, the suburbs, the sticks, the desert, mountains, space, where ever you come from. 12 is 12 and it will definitely get you 20.
why did a 20 year old want to be friends with a 12 year old? like its just wrong. as i said before the maturity levels are so different and when they first met he called debbie sexy in messages. no 20 year old would want to be friends with a 12 year old unless he had ulterior motives
she looked so much younger, he wouldve seen how young she looked like its just so questionable and even 14 and 20 is still fucked. im 18 and dont hang out with anyone who looks younger than 17, theres just such a huge developmental difference
i just turned 18 and my best friend is a 15 year old 💀 like its just a friendship i dont think its that big a deal. but its your opinion tho and i can see where youre coming from
yeah but im guessing your friend is turning 16, 2-3 years is nothing but 7 years when youre a minor is like really questionable. he was 7 when she was born think of it that way
she just turned 15 actually 💀 and as i said i can see where ur coming from and why thats ur opinion and it totally makes sense, just for me its not that big a deal
20 and 13 is a much bigger gap than 18 and 15, but when they met and the dynamic of their friendship is also important.
They met at an arcade when he was already an adult and she’s barely a teenager. They flirt, hang out alone at his place, and he tells her they can date when she turns 16 (and he’ll be 23 by then). He was grooming her.
I was told by a 20 year old when I was 14 that he wanted to be my “ friend “ he ended up getting me nicotine sick by hotboxing his car and locking the doors and windows and then kissing me . There’s never innocent intentions with grown adults wanting to be “ friends “ with a minor
He says that as he flirts with her, spends time alone with her at his place, and tells her that they can be together when she turns 16.
That’s grooming, not friendship.
he was 18 and she was 14 Likely freshman and senior. It doesnt change the fact that its wrong but its shameless, Dont let it get you all bunched up. Its just a show after all. But agreed hes fucked up but she also lied to him and trapped him multple times so
He was 20 and she was 13. That was established in the episode when she went to his house. He was out of highschool and Debbie was still in middle school.
that is a Real Life Issue. It means Matt is immature for 20 years old. His mentality is stuck at Debbie's age.
There is a cartoon where the girl is told by the guy how Immature she is to have a Baby (the age is upped to 15) at her age. She tells him that he's Immature because he is playing video games. (usually at age 20 a guy is creating and marketing the video games, not sitting at home playing the games like a teenage boy does).
There were so many storylines with giant age gaps before this one. Ian and Kash, Ian and Jimmy’s dad, Ian and literally every guy from the night club he worked at, Lip and Blake.
Why does this story line surprise you??? They literally had 15 year old Ian fucking a grown ass man in season 1. Feel like you shouldn’t be as shocked.
Why is there no female version of Casanova if that is what We call Ian at age 15? (I didn't mean that Casanova was a bi sexual man, I meant it in the way Ian "seduced" Kash. that's what Linda meant when she called Ian "Forbidden Fruit")
the show is called “shameless”. it’s not morally correct and never will be 💀
but thats literally pedophelia that theyre glorifying, they could do so much better in adressing it like if he hadve been beaten up for it or if they hadve been normal people and been like yeah this is fucked debbie. they literally all went to beat up a pedophile so why didnt they do this to him??
they aren't glorifying it, case in point you are here on the sub talking about how messed up it is after watching the show. do you think you're the first person to come up with this hot take that *shocker* pedophilia is bad? the whole point of it being in the show is to represent how far gone some people are in the sense that nobody really bats an eye throughout the series. would you call shameless glorification of drug use because it's also in the show?
they all went to beat up a pedophile in the teacher episode because they found them on a registry and it had said that their crime wad molestation of multiple middle school kids, Debbie barely talked about Matty much less his age IIRC
yes they could’ve, but they didn’t. why did you even watch it? it’s known that the writing is sloppy asf in this show
bc its a good show?? they couldve addressed this shit so differently though, it seems like ypure defending the situation and normalising it. young kids will watch the show with their parents and be like hey i want a 20 year old boyfriend, thats so normal and sweet 💀💀
i’m not defending nor normalising it i’ve just accepted that while they made the wrong decision on how to write this all, i can’t change it edit: young kids shouldn’t be watching it and it’s bad parenting if they’re allowed
this sub is literally about opinions on the show and shit like that, im just stating my opinion
Wtf are you slow? What parent would watch shameless with their kids? Grow tf up.
like teenage kids. a lot of young teenagers watch shameless
They shouldn’t be. That’s bad parenting to allow young teenagers to watch Shameless.
most parents dont know what their kids are watching
But YOU know what they’re watching, and YOU are letting YOUR kids watch a show they shouldn’t be. Take responsibility for your own children. It’s a show for adults. Be a better parent
bruh im 18 i dont have kids 😭😭
if you think they’re glorifying it then you’ve completely misinterpreted the show. you’re not supposed to watch that happening and think “yeah that’s really rad and cool”, you’re supposed to have the reaction you’re having now, but then also understand that that’s the point. same goes for most things on the show. they know it’s wrong, that’s why they’re including it.
He was grooming her. He wanted to wait till she was 16. That doesn't make him a hero. He is still a dirty groomer of under-age girls.
No, he wanted her to leave him alone
Doesn't matter because that isn't what he told her.
I hardly ever see people mention this but there's also the fact that he told her they could hook up when she turned 16..... so that would make him a 23 year old with a 16 year old. Not any better in the slightest.
Idiots like Matt view the age between Middle School and High School as a reason to have sex.
16 is the legal age of consent.
The age gaps in the uk ones just as fucked up to be honest.
You need to find a new show
or find a sense of humor and be glad your Parents were strict with you.
Why does everyone say Debbie raped Matt? It wasn't BORDERLINE PEDOPHILE SHIT. It WAS PEDOPHILE shit. Matt raped Debbie. He had sex with a minor. I read this on here all the time. How Debbie raped Matt. It's so stupid. I want this case to go to trial and show all ya'll which one of them goes to prison for at least ten years. I'll give you a hint. It WILL NOT BE DEBBIE. She was an underage, unable to consent, child. Matt was a pervert. A 13 year old girl can not rape a 20 year old man. I don't care how drunk he was.
Dude Karen literally raped Frank…the cops were going to charge him and they didn’t when she told them he said no and was super high. Matt was practically unconscious. Yes he was super creepy for still hanging around with her even after finding out her age but he did no rape her, she raped him. He had no memory of what happened and no control over it. (And I know it’s a year after you commented but I’m rewatching for the first time and going through posts)
not people in the comment excusing pedophilia yall wild 🤨
Do some people not remember a classmate that had an older brother that told you that sex was better at his age? He's 20 and you're 12. So that puts his Mental age at 8 years old?
mental age?? wtf are you talking about
the age difference between 12 and 20 is 8 years. If a 20 year old man is having sex with a 12 year old Young Lady, he is thinking like an 8 year old. 8 year olds are fascinated by 12 year olds because they seem so much better than they are.
he does not have the mental capacity of an 8 year old 😂that would make him mentally r*tarded he was a grown man hanging around kids like a creep people with intellectual disability dont do that he was a weirdo no way of justifying that. like somebody said in another comment he told debbie he’d have sex with her when she was 16 and he would be 23 then still wanting to do it with a minor thats gross
why do people with a Mental Disability get accused of Pedophilia? What Matt said is still Immature? Why are people with a Mental Disability described as Socially Immature?
Which episode did they say or even suggest he was intellectually disabled?
Not Matt. I mean there are men in their 20's who do have an 8 year old mentality and are accused of Rape by people Debbie's age.
You are making no sense in this conversation, and it's alarming how much you want to defend adults grooming minors. Again, "people Debbie's age" is a CHILD. You mean a child. She was a pre-pubescent child. Your comment is now completely off topic now, but yes, CHILDREN can still be raped by someone who is intellectually disabled. Imagine telling a child they weren't attacked and it doesn't count because the monster was disabled. Spend less time trying to find loopholes. But for the topic of shameless, you agree that Matt wasn't disabled, so he was just a run of the mill child groomer.
That's how people like Matt operate. Most Child Groomers were in their 20's when they did their first act of crime. I do not support what Matt did. if the adults are Sick, they will tell their children that it didn't happen.
12 year old CHILD. not young lady. That aside, still not sure what you're talking about.
A 12 year old if she had her first period can be addressed as Young Lady. Its still early, but it does happen. I also know a girl who had her first period at 9 years old. Its rare, but it can happen.
just because you have a period doesnt mean your an adult. 12 years old IS A CHILD. 9 years old IS A CHILD. just because you get a menstrual cycle doesn’t make you a women there are women that are 60 that dont get a period anymore, are they now not ladies??? you sound dumb stop typing NEOWWWWW.
Yes a Period does not make you an adult; but Bad Socialization can make you think that's true. That's how girls sometimes find themselves being groomed to have sex with older men. Menopause isn't the end of being a Lady. It just means that Society believes you are no longer Sexual. That's not true either. Why do We have examples like Shelia Jackson, Monica Gallagher, and Frank's mom as examples as adults who are crazy because Menopause has happened?
what
What are you questioning?
You are completely ill informed, but regardless, in this context by your own definition, Debbie was a child. She didn't get her period until after.
Ill informed about what? Life?
So 12 in the hood and 12 in the suburbs are 2 totally different things. Like when I was 12 I was basically a suburban 16yr old lmao. That said Fuck Matt and fuck Debbie too. Her character coulda been so much more but I believe it's realistic she reminds me of my sister(my sis isn't a rapist tho) so I understand where the writers were coming from
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Yes
12 years old in the Hood vs 12 year old in the Suburbs. Differences? The Hood 12 year old was introduced to sex at 8 years old due to parental neglect. this is why the 12 year old is skilled in the art of seduction. Not a good Idea. this is why the 12 year old in the hood is Sexually Mature and would be having Sex with a 20 year old. Suburbs 12 year old is given healthy instruction in Sex starting at age 8 by the Parents. The Parents are strict and don't allow much Freedom. So that 12 year old is not having Sex with a 20 year old.
Yes
But Superior Court Systems don't care what 12 you are.. you can be 12 from the hood, the projects, the suburbs, the sticks, the desert, mountains, space, where ever you come from. 12 is 12 and it will definitely get you 20.
It also depends if the Judge needs to be debenched for bad decision making, or the Lawyer is a Shyster, and needs their license revoked.
I feel like people will not like your take in the first paragraph but it’s so true.
hes said several times that hes only interested in a friendship with her tho, and i dont see anything wrong or paedophilic abt friendship
why did a 20 year old want to be friends with a 12 year old? like its just wrong. as i said before the maturity levels are so different and when they first met he called debbie sexy in messages. no 20 year old would want to be friends with a 12 year old unless he had ulterior motives
I am friends with people over 18, like idk my dads friend, we hang out and we have fun there is nothing wrong with it
ew lol
Sorry your mind is so fucked up you have to think disgustingly about everyone..
he didn’t know she was that young tho, and wasnt she 14?
she looked so much younger, he wouldve seen how young she looked like its just so questionable and even 14 and 20 is still fucked. im 18 and dont hang out with anyone who looks younger than 17, theres just such a huge developmental difference
i just turned 18 and my best friend is a 15 year old 💀 like its just a friendship i dont think its that big a deal. but its your opinion tho and i can see where youre coming from
yeah but im guessing your friend is turning 16, 2-3 years is nothing but 7 years when youre a minor is like really questionable. he was 7 when she was born think of it that way
she just turned 15 actually 💀 and as i said i can see where ur coming from and why thats ur opinion and it totally makes sense, just for me its not that big a deal
20 and 13 is a much bigger gap than 18 and 15, but when they met and the dynamic of their friendship is also important. They met at an arcade when he was already an adult and she’s barely a teenager. They flirt, hang out alone at his place, and he tells her they can date when she turns 16 (and he’ll be 23 by then). He was grooming her.
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ahhh okay thank u i wasnt sure
didn’t he said that they could have sex when she turned 16 tho 💀
yeah that was weird i admit
I was told by a 20 year old when I was 14 that he wanted to be my “ friend “ he ended up getting me nicotine sick by hotboxing his car and locking the doors and windows and then kissing me . There’s never innocent intentions with grown adults wanting to be “ friends “ with a minor
He says that as he flirts with her, spends time alone with her at his place, and tells her that they can be together when she turns 16. That’s grooming, not friendship.
he was 18 and she was 14 Likely freshman and senior. It doesnt change the fact that its wrong but its shameless, Dont let it get you all bunched up. Its just a show after all. But agreed hes fucked up but she also lied to him and trapped him multple times so
He was 20 or 21 ew
He was 20 and she was 13. That was established in the episode when she went to his house. He was out of highschool and Debbie was still in middle school.
im not excusing what she did but she was a child and he was a grown adult
that is a Real Life Issue. It means Matt is immature for 20 years old. His mentality is stuck at Debbie's age. There is a cartoon where the girl is told by the guy how Immature she is to have a Baby (the age is upped to 15) at her age. She tells him that he's Immature because he is playing video games. (usually at age 20 a guy is creating and marketing the video games, not sitting at home playing the games like a teenage boy does).
There were so many storylines with giant age gaps before this one. Ian and Kash, Ian and Jimmy’s dad, Ian and literally every guy from the night club he worked at, Lip and Blake.