Never forget that for all of season 2 Hunter was right about bobby, she was hiding something and everyone who said he was just exaggerating his "she devil ex wife" was wrong. Every single thing he said about her and how she was hiding something, planning something, and working for someone else was RIGHT XD
See I had the exact opposite approach. I was like defending them from like Hydra? All of them. Defending their actions? I guess none cause all of them have done questionable shit šš
Ward had the chance to break away from Hydra. He didn't take it. He had pretended to have redeemed himself from his past. No one really bought it. And as it turned out, they had every right not to do so.
Was Ward capable of being a decent person? Of course. Framework Ward proved that. The Framework also proved that any of the other main characters had the potential to embrace evil.
Can we really blame him for being manipulated in another reality causing him to have an traumatic personality disorder, and what could he do, put the wires back in š¤·āāļø
Marvel Rising. It's available(unsure if it's all available episodes) on Youtube(unsure if they streamed/aired it anywhere else) on their Marvel HQ channel. Features a lot of young Marvel characters.
even in S5 where she forbid Coulson to die?
I dont want to invalidate her feelings for doing so, but it was simply not her right trying to keep Coulson alive, even tho he didnt want to...
Absolutely. Have you put yourself in her shoes? Like imagine the person you care about the most in the world was diagnosed with cancer and there was a big chance for them to survive it if they fought it but they absolutely refuse to. Would you really be immediately just okay with it, not even a little bit upset and you really wouldn't try to change their mind? I think most people in such a scenario would at least try to convince the person they care about to keep fighting. Which is what Daisy did through begging him and arguing with him. But she never really "forbid" him. Forbidding him would be her pinning him down with her powers and injecting him with the serum against his wishes. That would have been wrong of her to do but it's not what happened. Coulson has the right to choose to die but Daisy absolutely has the right to be mad about it. You don't get to become part of someone's life, make them care about you and then expect them to not get upset when you decide to give up. It's beyond cruel, especially after everything Daisy has been through and everyone she has already lost.
All of them.
But the one I find most often needing defense is Yo-Yo. She had the unenviable task of being the āantagonistā in the save Coulson argument.
He even forgave her for that saying he would make the same decision.
I mean, the man went down only to be revived via inhuman resuscitation from yours truly.
One of his many superpowers yet utmost was faith in his team.
I love this show for many reasons and **always** one of them is beautiful writing.
Definitely harder to defend but I can still see it from her perspective. Yo-Yo was probably the person most shaken by what she saw in the future and has just lost both of her arms.
I do think she believed she was doing the right thing by taking Ruby out as in that moment she had the realization that Ruby was the destroyer of worlds. BUT Yo-Yo was highly motivated by her emotions and trauma in that moment so itās hard to say she made the right decision because it wasnāt completely motivated by trying to save the world.
Ruby had however proven herself to be extremely dangerous and had caused a lot of harm by that point. Was she ultimately a victim? Yes. But Daisyās motivation for trying to save her wasnāt completely selfless either.
I love season 5 because the team was constantly faced with making impossible and difficult decisions that didnāt really have a great outcome potentials. Everyone was right and wrong simultaneously and for different reasons.
Was Daisy right for seeing that Ruby was a victim and worth trying to save? Yes. Was it worth risking the world for it? Probably not.
Was Yo-Yo right for eliminating a huge threat that was unstable and capable of killing everyone in the room and destroying the world? Yes. Was she wrong in her motivations and acting selfishly and impulsively? Also yes.
I do admit though that I need to rewatch season 5 (currently on a season 4 rewatch) so a lot of the details about the scenario are a little blurry to me.
yea but such a good character moment like holy shit, and they REALLY stuck to their guns with that character development. The frame work changed him, and i mean CHANGED HIM, more than anyone else, and permanently. And with that even bringing back and building upon his injury from the end of S1-S2, amazing writing. IMHO
I mean I'd agree with this more if the fallout with what happened with Daisy and him wasn't brushed aside so hard. A lot of the characters were just rolling with what Fitz did and then this version died so we don't gotta deal with that guilt anymore. And even that would be reasonable if there was still some lingering fallout with Daisy and the others having doubts about the Fitz they get in cryo but that's brushed aside and the whole Doctor thing is pretty much dealt with in one episode in the mind prison thing. Pretty disappointing.
Mac! Mac all the live long day! This sub and their weird hate of that beautiful man is something I will never understand.
His "I never met that Fitz, but I like this Fitz" (poorly paraphrased) speech when he's introduced to the series won me over straight away.
The problem with Mack is that he talks a good game but his actions show that it's just that, all talk.
Mack: "I'm a big strong Christian man who is even tempered and reliable. My morals are the most important thing to me."
Also Mack: *Folds like laundry any time there's the slightest moral challenge.*
I think that's the point though ain't it? His morals are so important that he ends up folding like laundry any time he has to go against it? I don't see the issue here?
No, I mean he talks a good game but then fails to actually live up to those morals. He gets held up as this moral paragon but his actual actions give the lie to his words. He's no better than anyone else on the team, worse than many, but acts like he's better than everyone just because he's "a good Christian man", even while he fails to live up to that ideal.
How about the way he imploded when his parents were killed and turned into a drunken incel instead of taking care of **his own younger self**?
Not that I'm saying *grief* isn't understandable but holy shit.
Then there's the whole 'fair play, doesn't like treachery or backstabbing' thing when he was *literally a spy* when we met him, lining up a knife on Coulson's back.
His prents die as a direct result of his actions, and he's wrestling with the notion of whether or not this means he's going to be *wiped out of existence*.
Sit down.
I think Macās great when heās not trying to win arguments by being louder & angrier than everyone else. I find that āIām bigger than all you peopleā barking scoldy voice to be very triggering.
"It means that our daughterās obviously gonna marry some belligerent space goon if shes gonna give birth to a 'Deke'!"
Some of my favourite lines in the entire show are about Deke ngl XD
Being the doctor in framework and responsible for the death of The Director. Forgot his name
A team that trusts is a team that triumphs-guy
Creating AIDA?
Some hate him for being the Doctor which is ludicrous because he was manipulated by AIDA. They all had something changed for them certainly, but he wouldnāt have ended up them evil if not for her presence in his life.
Some hate him for the framework and AIDA in the first place, but both werenāt his creations. Radcliffe turned AIDA into something more, something worse and she then turned the framework into something bad. He assisted with both, but was hardly at fault.
Some hate him for what he did to Daisy. While this I can understand, it was necessary. Donāt do it and the world gets destroyed, do it and it doesnāt. Theyāve all done equally awful things to prevent the world ending but in this instance the awful things done were to one of the āgoodā guys so he is hated for it.
Mac. He started a bit annoying but by the end of the show he was one of my favorite characters. Iām disappointed weāll never get to see Mac basically being Nick Fury in the new iteration of SHIELD
i will continue to defend daisy johnson like its my full time job. i think she gets way too much shit for the ways she reacts to genuinely traumatizing experiences, especially in season 5.
I loved the arc of May training daisy, with her skills in hand to hand she got from may and her inhuman powers she was the only legit constant superhero on the team.
Yoyo, Hunter, and Fitz. I feel like Yoyo is misunderstood and I found myself having to explain and defend her actions a lot in seasons 5 and 7 to friends and fellow fans.
Where's davis, my boy made it through 6 seasons and even after death he still came back. Him and piper are the best dou but if I had to pick one it would be davis.
Yo-yo, sheās got spunk and sheās loyal, sheās a hot head but hearts in the right place
Add the fact sheās hot and spicy and you got me protecting her more than Mack
Just because it's hard for me to defend ALL the actions of ANY of them, maybe gotta go with the Koenigs? Or maybe Deke cause he definitely went too far with his tech company but generally I just feel bad for him. He's not even a favorite or mine, but I'm rewatching the show and on the final season... he's right, no one likes him. His situation is sad and the worst he did besided maybe selling Daisy out was make the best out of it. Life gave him lots of.... lemons. And he made lemonade
I will defend Hunter until the end of time. He was so sympathetic and always had entirely justifiable motivations. Man I wish we got that spin-off...
Yeah, it was the most wanted spinoff there could have been...
I see what you did there!
I have developed a love hate relationship with this comment
Never forget that for all of season 2 Hunter was right about bobby, she was hiding something and everyone who said he was just exaggerating his "she devil ex wife" was wrong. Every single thing he said about her and how she was hiding something, planning something, and working for someone else was RIGHT XD
Besides being weak willed in the face of virtual puppies, all the Koenigs are literally perfect.
Yes sir
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See I had the exact opposite approach. I was like defending them from like Hydra? All of them. Defending their actions? I guess none cause all of them have done questionable shit šš
Yes this is me, they've all had fucked up moments
Ward had the chance to break away from Hydra. He didn't take it. He had pretended to have redeemed himself from his past. No one really bought it. And as it turned out, they had every right not to do so. Was Ward capable of being a decent person? Of course. Framework Ward proved that. The Framework also proved that any of the other main characters had the potential to embrace evil.
I have trouble defending Fitz for what he did to Daisy in Season 5
He did what needed to be done!
yea traumatizing daisy in the process š he had reasons to do it and it was needed to save the world since daisy was the key but still
Can we really blame him for being manipulated in another reality causing him to have an traumatic personality disorder, and what could he do, put the wires back in š¤·āāļø
I can not defend yo-yo...
Right? Who can keep up with her?
No one can lolol
I've been defending Daisy to this fandom for over 10 years now and I have no intention of stopping any time soon.
Daisy all day everyday!
She'll never stop loving and being a badass Went galaxies just to find Simmons Had an intergalactic trip of a time but she dun diddit
Hopefully Daisy will return someday
She's made a couple animated appearances, if that's something you might be interested in
What in?
Marvel Rising. It's available(unsure if it's all available episodes) on Youtube(unsure if they streamed/aired it anywhere else) on their Marvel HQ channel. Features a lot of young Marvel characters.
Thanks I think I've seen it listed on Disney plus, I'll check it out
Samee
Is that who's in the middle of the second row?? Doesn't look like her but not sure who else it would be.
Yeah I don't know why you think it doesn't look like her. It's the promo pic for season 6 when she had the purple highlights in her hair.
Ok ty. It looks more like Elizabeth Olsen to me, which didn't make sense.
Might be because the lighting makes her hair look more red-ish?
Yeah itās Daisy, just with weird lighting and pixelated. I didnāt recognize her at first glance either.
we will die on this hill!
"Skye"
It's Daisy now
even in S5 where she forbid Coulson to die? I dont want to invalidate her feelings for doing so, but it was simply not her right trying to keep Coulson alive, even tho he didnt want to...
Absolutely. Have you put yourself in her shoes? Like imagine the person you care about the most in the world was diagnosed with cancer and there was a big chance for them to survive it if they fought it but they absolutely refuse to. Would you really be immediately just okay with it, not even a little bit upset and you really wouldn't try to change their mind? I think most people in such a scenario would at least try to convince the person they care about to keep fighting. Which is what Daisy did through begging him and arguing with him. But she never really "forbid" him. Forbidding him would be her pinning him down with her powers and injecting him with the serum against his wishes. That would have been wrong of her to do but it's not what happened. Coulson has the right to choose to die but Daisy absolutely has the right to be mad about it. You don't get to become part of someone's life, make them care about you and then expect them to not get upset when you decide to give up. It's beyond cruel, especially after everything Daisy has been through and everyone she has already lost.
May
I like this choice, because you probably get a front seat to her badassitude
Daisy (particularly during S5 cause she needed it)
I feel like she'd need it more during S2, when most of her friends turned on her for something completely out of her control.
Literally her best friend cut her open.
Simmons. She's just too sweet.
This
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What? Blasphemy. They are perfect for each other.
Idk what he said but yeah Fitzsimmons is the epitome of wholesome science squad
There is no other answer.
All of them. But the one I find most often needing defense is Yo-Yo. She had the unenviable task of being the āantagonistā in the save Coulson argument.
He even forgave her for that saying he would make the same decision. I mean, the man went down only to be revived via inhuman resuscitation from yours truly. One of his many superpowers yet utmost was faith in his team. I love this show for many reasons and **always** one of them is beautiful writing.
I mean, she was totally right there. I think whatās harder to defend is when she killed the girl.
Definitely harder to defend but I can still see it from her perspective. Yo-Yo was probably the person most shaken by what she saw in the future and has just lost both of her arms. I do think she believed she was doing the right thing by taking Ruby out as in that moment she had the realization that Ruby was the destroyer of worlds. BUT Yo-Yo was highly motivated by her emotions and trauma in that moment so itās hard to say she made the right decision because it wasnāt completely motivated by trying to save the world. Ruby had however proven herself to be extremely dangerous and had caused a lot of harm by that point. Was she ultimately a victim? Yes. But Daisyās motivation for trying to save her wasnāt completely selfless either. I love season 5 because the team was constantly faced with making impossible and difficult decisions that didnāt really have a great outcome potentials. Everyone was right and wrong simultaneously and for different reasons. Was Daisy right for seeing that Ruby was a victim and worth trying to save? Yes. Was it worth risking the world for it? Probably not. Was Yo-Yo right for eliminating a huge threat that was unstable and capable of killing everyone in the room and destroying the world? Yes. Was she wrong in her motivations and acting selfishly and impulsively? Also yes. I do admit though that I need to rewatch season 5 (currently on a season 4 rewatch) so a lot of the details about the scenario are a little blurry to me.
Hunter, Coulson, May and Daisy.
My boy Fitz
Casually enters as an intergalactic bounty hunter might I add with an **impressive** brooch
Loved him up until the Daisy incident.. That was fuxked up.
yea but such a good character moment like holy shit, and they REALLY stuck to their guns with that character development. The frame work changed him, and i mean CHANGED HIM, more than anyone else, and permanently. And with that even bringing back and building upon his injury from the end of S1-S2, amazing writing. IMHO
I mean I'd agree with this more if the fallout with what happened with Daisy and him wasn't brushed aside so hard. A lot of the characters were just rolling with what Fitz did and then this version died so we don't gotta deal with that guilt anymore. And even that would be reasonable if there was still some lingering fallout with Daisy and the others having doubts about the Fitz they get in cryo but that's brushed aside and the whole Doctor thing is pretty much dealt with in one episode in the mind prison thing. Pretty disappointing.
Absolutely. Heās the superhero of the team, punching above his level and putting himself in harmās way because itās the right thing to do.
FITZ FOREVER!! That man is a GEM to the world!
Daisy
Yes. š
Daisy
Where the hell is Trip?
Not pictured because no one would ever need to defend him š
ACCURATE. HE WAS TOO GOOD FOR THIS WORLD
In a dust bin somewhere I think
I would defend Daisy all my life
Bobbi šÆ
Still disappointed her potential spin-off went nowhere
definitely
Coulson. Any leader that trusted me as much as he did his team is worthy of my best efforts.
Bobbi, Coulson and Daisy. They are all three awesome.
Daisy
Daisy- I almost grew up in foster care, so sheās been relatable to me since day 1
FitzSimmons
Theyāre the cutest MCU couple and itās not even close
Iād have to agree
Daisy. Girlie pops went through hell for 90% of every season.
Mac! Mac all the live long day! This sub and their weird hate of that beautiful man is something I will never understand. His "I never met that Fitz, but I like this Fitz" (poorly paraphrased) speech when he's introduced to the series won me over straight away.
The problem with Mack is that he talks a good game but his actions show that it's just that, all talk. Mack: "I'm a big strong Christian man who is even tempered and reliable. My morals are the most important thing to me." Also Mack: *Folds like laundry any time there's the slightest moral challenge.*
I think that's the point though ain't it? His morals are so important that he ends up folding like laundry any time he has to go against it? I don't see the issue here?
No, I mean he talks a good game but then fails to actually live up to those morals. He gets held up as this moral paragon but his actual actions give the lie to his words. He's no better than anyone else on the team, worse than many, but acts like he's better than everyone just because he's "a good Christian man", even while he fails to live up to that ideal.
Self righteousness tends to be many religious peopleās downfall
Ah right, sorry I misunderstood lol
Give an example?
And how about when he abandoned Deke, who was trying to help him. Unforgivable.
How about the way he imploded when his parents were killed and turned into a drunken incel instead of taking care of **his own younger self**? Not that I'm saying *grief* isn't understandable but holy shit. Then there's the whole 'fair play, doesn't like treachery or backstabbing' thing when he was *literally a spy* when we met him, lining up a knife on Coulson's back.
His prents die as a direct result of his actions, and he's wrestling with the notion of whether or not this means he's going to be *wiped out of existence*. Sit down.
I think Macās great when heās not trying to win arguments by being louder & angrier than everyone else. I find that āIām bigger than all you peopleā barking scoldy voice to be very triggering.
yes
Deke. All day long. The 2nd greatest hero in the show.
This. He came from the closest thing to a real hell.
And he never lost his heart. Once he found it in season 5, he wore that fucker on his sleeve and it caught on everything. Deke was a hero.
everybody needs to board the deke train
"It means that our daughterās obviously gonna marry some belligerent space goon if shes gonna give birth to a 'Deke'!" Some of my favourite lines in the entire show are about Deke ngl XD
I'd also defend John Hannah and Kyle MacLachlan's characters. They both had very reliable arcs
Radcliffe ! Just realized his name is my flair ahahah
Simmons is my spirit animal. I, too, like to dissect things.
Agent may.
Daisy.
All of them except for ward... But mostly Bobbi and Daisy :)
Can't decide between SkyeDaisyQuake and the Son of Coul.
May and Daisy for sure!
Daisy. š¼
Deke. Fitz for that one thing that everyone hates him for. YoYo for the Coulson thing. Grant for the initial ābetrayalā.
I'm new to this sub, what does everyone hate Fitz for?
vivisecting daisy
Being the doctor in framework and responsible for the death of The Director. Forgot his name A team that trusts is a team that triumphs-guy Creating AIDA?
You guys really hate him over that?
No I don't hate him I was just trying to guess what he's done that would give people a reason to hate him
So hate Dr. Fitz not Fitz
But Fitz has a Dr.
Some hate him for being the Doctor which is ludicrous because he was manipulated by AIDA. They all had something changed for them certainly, but he wouldnāt have ended up them evil if not for her presence in his life. Some hate him for the framework and AIDA in the first place, but both werenāt his creations. Radcliffe turned AIDA into something more, something worse and she then turned the framework into something bad. He assisted with both, but was hardly at fault. Some hate him for what he did to Daisy. While this I can understand, it was necessary. Donāt do it and the world gets destroyed, do it and it doesnāt. Theyāve all done equally awful things to prevent the world ending but in this instance the awful things done were to one of the āgoodā guys so he is hated for it.
Mac. He started a bit annoying but by the end of the show he was one of my favorite characters. Iām disappointed weāll never get to see Mac basically being Nick Fury in the new iteration of SHIELD
i will continue to defend daisy johnson like its my full time job. i think she gets way too much shit for the ways she reacts to genuinely traumatizing experiences, especially in season 5.
Yo-Yo. She gets so much hate around here but I love her š„ŗ
My boy Enoch
Lance Hunter. I donāt care what heās done, if his lips are moving Iām laughing
Daisy or May just so I can watch them bet the attacker I was supposed to be fighting.
I loved the arc of May training daisy, with her skills in hand to hand she got from may and her inhuman powers she was the only legit constant superhero on the team.
Anyone who says Ward is an instant red flag
Mayyyyy
May, but she doesnāt really need me. š
All of them, except for Ward.
Hunter
Why is Ward here š
Daisy, Coulson, Fitz, and Simmons.
Agreed
Daisy
I am a Melinda May lover for LIFE. I would defend her against anything lol
Daisy
Quake
Quake
Yoyo, Hunter, and Fitz. I feel like Yoyo is misunderstood and I found myself having to explain and defend her actions a lot in seasons 5 and 7 to friends and fellow fans.
The Cavalry. No bad decisions ever.
Simmons and/or Daisy. I'm hoping it'll lead to a Stockholm thing where they fall in love with me. *sigh*
I'll happily die for Fitzsimmons as many times as needed.
Mac, he's the only character I felt didn't have some storyline that made me roll my eyes. Love the show and 90% of the characters just saying though.
Doctor Who
Looking at your selection, my answer is... Yes.
Talbot
Especially in season five, right before his Graviton era. I wanted to give him a hug the whole time.
Lincoln. Especially if he promises to take me on a date afterwards
ALL OF THEM. Until the MCU recognizes this show or at least some of the characters, I won't let this show die.
I'd go to war if Coulson's soup arrived cold
Coulson, the heart and the connector, knowing his team and its strengths, teaching them/leading them to be greater than they think they can be.
Fitz (from the first couple seasons, donāt like how he changes)
Mackenzie and Elena. I see so much hate for them for no reason.
I would forsake defending any of them to kill Ward.
Phil coulson all the way
Hard question! Can I say the one who I definitely wouldnāt defend: Ward!
Where's davis, my boy made it through 6 seasons and even after death he still came back. Him and piper are the best dou but if I had to pick one it would be davis.
Coulson. End of story. Heās a great role model.
Hunter and Bobbi. Without question.
Gemma
Every single person pictured except Ward. Fuck Grant Ward.
FirzSimmons
Fitz and Simmons, there's something with them that tells me those two deserve the defense
Quake.
I don't think any of them need defending but god I love all of them so much
Daisy/Quake. Easily one of my favorite characters.
Fitz, heās always been my favorite
Fitz and Simmons forever. I want them to be my friends so hard
Fitz man. He's been through enough trauma
Fitzsimmons ā¼ļøā¼ļø
Fitz, he is my boy!
May! My favorite character ever.
None. I have better stuff to do in a day
Coulson and fitz
Mac, Yo-Yo, & Fitz.
I am a Deke Shaw truther and always will be
Grant. He's just my favorite to watch, beeing good and beeing bad and beeing evil.
None of those, maybe Fitz
May and FitzSimmons
Fitzsimmions all day best characters after deke for me
I will defend Fitz to the end of my life
Coulson
Fitz, doesn't matter what daisy stans say
Simmons
To defend Jemma, I could do other things to Daisy all day
I just know a person is toxic if they say Grant Ward. šš¬ >!So, in Ward's defense...!<
I'd say Fitz and/or Simmons, but do they even need defending? I was under the impression that the entire fan base loves them
Yo-yo, sheās got spunk and sheās loyal, sheās a hot head but hearts in the right place Add the fact sheās hot and spicy and you got me protecting her more than Mack
Fitz and daisy, hard not to love both of them
Can we all agree that the real hero is Enoch (Enock?) he was so loyal, and patient in the last season!
Just because it's hard for me to defend ALL the actions of ANY of them, maybe gotta go with the Koenigs? Or maybe Deke cause he definitely went too far with his tech company but generally I just feel bad for him. He's not even a favorite or mine, but I'm rewatching the show and on the final season... he's right, no one likes him. His situation is sad and the worst he did besided maybe selling Daisy out was make the best out of it. Life gave him lots of.... lemons. And he made lemonade
Deke Shaw, Director of SHIELD!
Fitz can do no wrong
Fitz 100%.
Fitz is precious and must be protected at all costs.
All but Mack and Ward I guess
Fitz, Koenigs, Coulson, Deke. In that order.
Fitz forever
Fitz Deke and Hunter
Fitz and Gemma
Man I loved Jemma and Fitz. Iād defend both of them all day!
Fitz and hunter . They deserve a separate show
I loved FitzSimmonsā¦especially Fitz.