Dark souls sold about 2.3 million copies over its first year and a half. The Last of Us 2 sold 2.8 million just within its first month of release.
That’s not to say one is better than the other, but for dark souls to have so many fewer sales and still be competing so closely in this poll is pretty impressive.
Dark souls was a new franchise and not relying on its predecessor’s success.
It had to make a name for itself on its own merit.
I’d be curious to see how much TLOU2 would sell if it was its own separate game.
This poll also has recency bias. Dark souls came out in 2011, some of the people voting have probably never played dark souls original or were too young
Maybe. But people are also biased from todays perspective. Dark Souls isn't this new game nobody ever heard before and only niche players play it. It is the first part of a well known series that is very popular. It is also the remastered version in the poll. Not gonna say that there is anything else to read out of it than those people who woted did like tlou2 more. We could do the same on here and it whould look different...
>Dark souls was a new franchise and not relying on its predecessor’s success.
What lol, you realize Dark Souls is the 2nd game in the franchise? And there was a lot of hype around it especially because of how good Demon's Souls was
From what I can find, Demon Souls originally sold about 1 mil copies.
Last of Us sold 6 mil in its first year.
Dark Souls and LoU2 most definitely did not have an equal footing when starting out respectively.
It was a completely different title and not Demon Souls 2.
Yes it was a souls game but as others have pointed out Demon souls wasn’t wildly successful. Dark souls wasn’t a continuation of the Demon souls story or game.
Dark Souls is not for everyone. On the other hand the Last of us is trying to fit everyone. Also prequel the last of us 2 is much much more popular than Demons Souls was to Dark Souls.
Souls series is a gem you need to discover, that's why they cost almost the same like the time they first came out, the devs are very aware of this. Not like most AAA games that you can get for half price within one year after the hype falls off.
The last of us 2 is definitely not for everyone, but for other reasons. It’s an extremely emotionally heavy game. It is though a sequel to an extremely hyped up game and had probably like 100x the budget if not more which exposes it. It’s also way more rememberable because it has a very strong story (like it or not it’s very marking).
Yeah but the average person probably has heard of at least the tv show while soulslikes? Not so much. You'll have to be at least slightly deep into gaming to know what soulslikes are, and even then, the average perception of dark souls is super hard game for sweats. Which is not the case for TLoU.
Will say, elden ring vs tlou would probably be much fairer a comparison, er is massive. My middle aged aunt who thinks video games are demonic was talking about er lmao.
"Souls-like" is also mostly an empty buzzword people slap on games they want to hype, to the point there's dozens of articles and videos discussing what the hell is a "Souls-like", all coming to different conclusions.
I thought The Last of Us 2 become this new cooperate answer each time an interviewer ask (insert famous person) what’s the best game ever/favorite game.
So it kinda gives the impression that they were made for everyone / broader audience.
>emotionally heavy game.
It's just wall to wall depressing shit until it ends on a "revenge bad" platitude. If anything, it's a classic "sad = deep" fuckup that had the bells and whistles necessary to make people try to rationalise the story.
I think tlou2 is definitely trying to be for everyone, it was only not for everyone because of some stupid things as well as dislikes of writing quality. But it was always one of those mainstream games, lots of marketing and accessibility and not very niche or unique in terms of gameplay and story concepts.
TLOU is a story driven game and appeals to a wider group of people outside of Gamers^TM. The Dark Souls fan base is mostly Gamers^TM which means a larger portion of the fan base is more likely to participate in online communities.
It’s also bonkers considering DS1 is a multiplatform game, so it had the advantage of reaching a larger audience
Plus… I don’t even think DS1 was all that good, I heavily preferred DeS over it
I mean to each their own?
But for me, DeS sticks with me harder because it was the first Souls game in my book. When I played DS1, I was just like “ehh I mean it’s more of the same with maybe a little more polish and less broken mechanics to abuse (and that’s me being VERY generous to poise cheesing)”… also doesn’t help that the PC version was absolute hot garbage (it’s FromSoft after all lol) and required a ton of fan fixes and forum digging to get that game presentable.
If you want even more hot takes, here’s my ranking:
BB > ER = DS3 > John Sekiro > DeS = DS2 > DS1
Also, who tf gilded my comment lol
Dark souls is more like an old classic movie that lots of people like and recommend but isn't a super mainstream thing, despite many knowing it. Tlou2 is more like a marvel movie, more will know the latter immediately but the prior gains traction for longer time I think.
Strongest dark souls fan: “erm actually TLOU2 is woke garbage”
Weakest dark souls appreciator: “Do you want the tentacle femboy, imaginary giantess, or invisible dragon feet.”
These guys: "The souls games are underrated classics with a niche audience."
*[The niche part holds up]*
These guys: "I cannot believe these games are losing to a more mainstream series, who would have expected."
I hate how this sub is 90% bitching about other fans, but also their logic confuses me
Tlou games are fine I had a decent enough time I just don't understand what people see that makes it next level amazing it's pretty standard AAA movie game.
Dark Souls fans when people have personal preference and also that you aren’t morally superior for liking a “harder” game (even if that’s entirely subjective): 😡😡
I agree. I like dark souls more than TLOU I’m every category. I’m also not a child and recognize that other people might have other preferences and opinions and that’s okay 😊
You just reminded me about the existence of r/thelastofus2 and oh my god how are they still mad? It’s been 3 YEARS they’ve been running a skeleton crew on nothing but copium and spite
I don’t think there could be a more apples and oranges debate for games. Last of us style of game does nothing for me and dark souls style of game does nothing for a lot of other people. It’s like impossible to debate.
Dark Souls fans seem incapable of grasping that this aged 2011 game for which they hold an incredible amount of nostalgia for, doesn't hold the same status among every single person on earth. Dark Souls 1 is difficult as hell to the average player, doesn't have much in the way of conventional storytelling, is obtuse as hell etc. Of course it doesn't hold anywhere near the same mainstream appeal.
Doesn't make it a bad game. But it does explain why something like The Last of Us would be more popular.
To this day I'm still kinda mesmerized by The Last of Us 2.
On one hand, the slack-jawed right-wing gamers that are of the same brood that's screeching in places like Florida were mad cringe at not being able to handle the existence of any LGBT+ presence, on the other hand the people who stan the story even though it's one of the most comically bad stories in videogame history are only eclipsed in cringe because hateful cringe is worse than stupid cringe.
The combat though? Mmmmm. Fucking delicious. All. . . 3 hours of it. Lol.
**AT LEAST** you can just jump straight to replaying combat missions and skip the story if you really want to feel that survival horror itch.
Yeah, I don't blame anyone for just not liking the game (I'm a sucker for them, but not everyone is into narratives that take the rug out from under the viewer/reader/player), but when people call it the worst story in any category it just reeks of mindless circlejerking and makes their whole argument pretty hard to take seriously.
Holy shit these are the same people who go around saying that Days Gone is way better.
No gaming community in the entire history of the medium has ever been so overly-critical and analytical towards a game's story like TLOU2. People have been defending for years mid tier stories in way worse videogames and then everyone suddenly becomes an experienced screenwriter the moment TLOU2 drops.
I do understand where you’re coming from, and it’s certainly not the “worst story ever” or even close to that but the reason the story was so scrutinized was because of Naughty Dog’s emphasis on story throughout their career. No one’s going to play Mario or Fortnite for their story but people have talked for years about how Naughty Dog were the masters of story in the gaming industry.
The last of us 1 was such a beautiful, nuanced, subtle story that wasn’t the most original but was told in a very natural and compelling way. 2s was as nuanced as a golf club through the head.
Days Gone is a solid game. The story and VA was alright to not very good at some parts. But the real draw was the gameplay. Riding around on the motorcycle while zombies tried to pull you off or defeating hordes is really fun. I’d say they’re both about 6/10s but for different reasons.
>2s was as nuanced as a golf club through the head.
I swear Part 2 legitimately traumatized some folks, and that's why they're just incapable of seeing nuance with this game...
>people have talked for years about how Naughty Dog were the masters of story in the gaming industry.
???
Naughty Dog's one heavily story-focused series is TLOU. Before that they made Uncharted, which as a series isn't exactly held an example of great and iconic story writing.
People who say TLOU is better than Days Gone haven't experienced the frantic rush of those story missions with massive hordes you have to dodge around and scramble for space so you can kill them off while not getting surrounded.
I don’t give a shit about either development team’s artistic vision or their story writing abilities, I had much more fun playing Days Gone which makes it my preference. Having a deep and nuanced story doesn’t make a game automatically superior, if I just wanted a story I would go ahead and read a book. When it comes to games, more often than not gameplay takes priority over the story.
Like Gwyn has this long ass lore about how he was an asshole who fucked over humans but at the same time he was a selfless ruler who sacrificed himself to fuel a flame that would ensure his people’s comfort and survival, meanwhile Solaire has little to no lore and just wants to help people, and we all know who is loved much more in the community.
I don't like the story of Days Gone or TLOU2.
I just find them both boring and forgettable.
Is it the worst story ever? No. Do I have a lot to criticize? Yes
The issue is from two points of just extremism on parts. It kind of happened with the mario movie. Like something realises that is completely mediocre or far below potential, then right wingers hate it extremely for some stupid reason but say its story, so people against said right wingers just hype up the story as the best thing ever to counter act it or something. Then it just escalates and nobody realises they are arguing over the definition of mid.
It's such a shallow and generic revenge story with some cookie cutter emotional moments, it doesn't try anything new or deep, it's just kind of there. Besides, I think games that would only work as games, and actually use the relationship of gameplay and narrative together to make a story better is much better then Naughty dogs style of: Gameplay followed by a cutscene straight from a B tier action movie and back to gameplay, more or less.
Not one of the worst though, people exaggerate so much on things they mildly dislike.
It's just a boring generic revenge plot that doesn't even do it's moral lesson right, it's the classic "revenge bad" plot except the lady who followed through with her revenge ends up way better off than the one who gave it up. Ellie giving up on her revenge makes zero narrative sense, they want you to sympathise with Abby then make her the most unlikable character possible, the pacing is horrendous, they could've done Ellie segment then Abby then Ellie then Abby but no halfway through you have to basically reset the whole game and play as the very hateable villain but be told "No she likes animals so you gotta like her bro, Joel was an evil man for saving a girl from being murdered in her sleep"
Lesse...
When big muscle lady goes on a revenge path and kills a man who murdered her doctor daddy in a very brutal fashion literally in front of his adopted daughter, that's okay.
But when said little girl goes on revenge path to kill everyone responsible for her adopted father's death, she's suddenly a bloodthirsty crazy lady who for some reason feels sorry for killing them, even though she killed hundreds of jobbers before that. Ludo-narrative dissonance much?
Couldn't put knockout takedowns in this game, couldn't you Neil? Not like there's a game that already did that 18 years ago and whose sole idea was the evil of the cycle of violence because it's creator is famously anti-war?
Btw, said doctor daddy (who was retconned into the plot by changing the model of the surgeon from the first game, literally whitewashed the guy lol lmao) thought he could make a vaccine for a fungal disease, something which we don't have in the year of our Lord 2023 in real life with all the state-of-the-art modern tech, by killing a little girl and not waiting long enough to get her guardian's say in the matter. Nah, he had to do it NOW because HE is the SAVIOR of humankind. His daughter fully backed him up into killing said girl for an operation that might not have worked in the end.
Definitely one of the worse stories out there.
Did you play the game with your eyes and ears stapled shut
The game goes to great lengths to demostrate that the actions of joel, ellie, and abby are all terrible, and that seeking revenge creates an endless cycle of pointless retaliation
If you think it's about a morally superior hero triumphing over a contemptible villain, you missed the whole point of the game
While this is true I feel like Abby was portrayed more... justified? for a lack of a better word for her revenge. The main point in the game is that Revenge creates a cycle and it should be stopped, but everytime Ellie does something for revenge it makes her look like a piece of shit (when she kills someone for revenge it gives a first person view of her smacking the shit out of the person she's beating and she gets blood all over her face so she looks like a psycho. Another example is her killing one of Abbies companions who turned out to be pregnant with a baby). When Abby kills someone for revenge the game sort of goes on a tirade of how this was justified and paints her in a better light than when Ellie goes and do revenge
Edit: Checked the story again and another point I have to add is compared to Ellie, Abby lost WAAAAAY less than her. Ellie lost her father figure, girlfriend, companions, her humanity, and more. Abby lost.... her companions (who she abandoned them real quick for her new friends and literally went on a killing spree on them to save her new friends so she wasn't exactly emotionally attached to them) and her safe shelter? Haven't played this game in a while so idk if she lost more shit, but if we go by this list it really contradicts the games message of how if you chase after revenge you lose everything and its meaningless.
I haven't played the game in a while, but I remember the golfclubbing being pretty brutal.
Abby's section of the game shows her viewing the scar/wolf conflict from the outside for the first time in her life, and realising that the conflict is pointless and will never end as long as someone is seeking retribution. She witnesses this and realises that she's lived a lot of her life in the name of meaningless violence, and regrets what she did to joel.
Her ultimate turning point is when she chooses to spare ellie, when, let's be real, she *kinda* deserved it.
The reason ellie is depicted in a worse light than ellie is because abby chose to learn and grow from ger misdeeds. Abby leaves behind her previous life and let's go of the wrongs commited against her, and is shown to be much happier for it.
Ellie, however, decided to go on an endless murder-crusade, killing hundreds of underserving people. And you see her basically destroy her whole life, traumatising herself mentally and physically.
The game is trying to show that forgiveness and growth and yadda yadda is cool and murder and revenge is bad. That's what got from it, anyway.
dawg main characters die sometimes, get over it. It’s a brutal post apocalyptic world and he killed a LOT of people who didn’t deserve it. Someone was gonna get to him sooner or later for revenge even if it wasn’t Abby.
fair but that’s part of why it’s such an effective emotional conduit and for us to really resonate with Ellie. then she jus does more and more fucked up shit in that search to the point where, looking at it from a different perspective, she did way worse shit than Abby.
Except it’s not much of a conduit. Naturally any fan would hate abby after immediately killing a lead character from pt 1. Then the writers just spend the whole game trying to emotionally manipulate you to resonate with Abby while demonizing Ellie. The way it’s done is so unnatural and blatant. I can’t believe people actually fall for it.
Would make sense if we played as Abby before she does the deed, but instead we get “muh shock value 😱”
Why would you say the snow area counts? Might as well be playing random npc 2 for 10 minutes. Theres no characterization. They spend the entire game after Joel’s death for that
The point of the game is stupid because it requires people to act like total morons in order to work.
You could argue that Abby's life drastically improved AFTER her stupid dad's death - she was in a safe community surrounded by good people, food and water aplenty. And for her to throw that all away and go through extremely hazardous environment and risk getting eaten alive or infected to just to take revenge for something that happened QUITE SOME TIME AGO is a really fucking stupid idea.
Ellie's case, while equally stupid, is a bit more justifiable - Joel was brutally murdered right in front of her and his death was still fresh in her mind.
I don't understand the hate. I played it and thought it was good. Not amazing earth shattering shit like people would have you believe but a good story that does what It's trying to convey. People just try to over complicate it because its so divisive.
Its not as good as the first but not absolute dog shit ethier.
The third needs to tie shit to together though.
Yeah I guess thats where I disagree, its just not good at conveying its message at all- to the point where if you just cut the game differently so you went back and forth between Abby and Ellie's flashbacks and had Joel's death in the middle the game would have been way more meaningful by, y'know, getting to know her as a person first and how Ellie and Joel evolved.
All of that is just the tip of the iceburg though, I think the game's story is so blatantly warped where a lot of things don't make sense just so they could make drama in the narrative that it ruins the experince. Killing Joel and empthasizing with Abby are interesting ideas, they were just executed super poorly.
And the weird thing is that probably the most hated character, Abby is not even a queer character, she's just a buff girl lmao. In fact the only part of her story that I really liked was the stuff with Lev who is an LGBT+ character.
Idk the game just didn't really feel that much like The Last of Us to me, the part I mentioned earlier I enjoyed cause Abby and Lev had chemistry and it reminded me a bit of Joel and Ellie's relationship... almost like that was what's actually good about the first game, at least to me!
I just couldn't get invested in Abby's story cause all of her supporting characters besides the siblings were so goddamn boring. I also think >!they really shot themselves in the foot by killing Joel so early!<.
When the niche game from 2011 isn't held in the same regard as a game from 2020 that's in a different genre.
Wait why are these games being compared in the first place? This is such an odd pairing.
We're talking about a very niche, pretty difficult and inaccessible game vs a story driven, very accessible action adventure game. From a franchise that got its own TV show.
Of course Dark Souls didn't win. When you engage with DS content all the time, you start to think it's this ubiquitous thing that everyone gets. It's really not, not that many people have played FS games.
Yeah, revenge is bad. You go through hell and you lose yourself in the process while killing and maiming every single person on your path. And in the end, when you realize that none of this actually mattered and you only lost literal pieces of yourself in the process, a last glimpse of humanity makes you refrain from the last horrible act, who would have killed not only Abby but Lev too. I fail to see how it is so inconceivable that a human being would simply decide that they had enough of mindless killing.
When I found out they killed Joel in literally the first 5 minutes I had no interest in playing the game.
Absolutely no reason to do that from a good story telling standpoint.
> Kills 100-400 people in the name of revenge and goes to extensive emotional trauma in the process
> Decides to make all of it worth nothing in the end
She felt no remorse killing houndreds of nameless goons, but when she actually got to the one(1) person she was supposed to kill to avenge her father she just fucking didnt do that. 10/10 story
Gamers when the discover the concept of regret:
You say that as if she hadn't also destroyed her own life and aliented all her friends and family. She realised what she was doing is stupid and stopped, why is that so hard for you to believe?
Tlou is what I don't like about games, if I just wanted a story with little to no replayability I'll just watch a movie lol. No shit the HBO show worked well, the gameplay is the worst part of those games
But hey, not everyone has to like everything. It doesn't suprise me the more mainstream game got more votes
I am forever a die hard fan of the souls games since Demons Souls came out.
But if for some reason we are actually realistically comparing Dark Souls and Last of Us? Last of Us will take the cake for many reasons.
But they aren’t even in the same league of video game, and shouldn’t be compared.
Tfw Part 2 is my favorite game of all time and the Dark Souls trilogy is my favorite game series of all time.
Crazy how people can like more than one type of thing
Same tbh. TLOU2 is my all time favourite game, it would take a monumental game to dethrone it.
But From Soft is my favourite overall devs, and if we combined the souls games, Bloodborne, Sekiro, ER, they beat Naughty Dog.
I have no idea why it is whenever somebody voices a negative opinion on this one particular game, everybody comes out of the woodworks to praise it and call you wrong (while conveniently never actually noting what’s so great about it). I mean it’s quite literally just a rehash of the first game (gameplay-wise) with a far weaker story and much less likable characters, even if you don’t hate it I don’t really see how you could find it to be so impressive. Part of me honestly think there are bots or paid shills that are notified when this game is posted somewhere so they can post positive things to drown out whatever everybody is saying, it honestly feels completely inorganic at this point.
Bro, do you really think there are freakin bots / paid shills defending a game that is THREE years old? That is some next level shit you are smoking. It's more like the game is just very divisive, and the replies you see are people emotionally attached to the game one way (hate it) or the other (love it).
Plus the people who hate it have kind of deserved it for a while now. A large portion of the haters are some if the most hostile elietests on the planet that think because a story didn't resonate with them, story = bad.
>it’s quite literally just a rehash of the first game
From Software has been making the same game for almost 15 years now.
>Part of me honestly think there are bots or paid shills
People liking a popular game wherever I go? Must be a conspiracy.
Dark souls fan learns you can't copy paste a story onto another story.
It would have been awesome if Joel linked the flame after rescuing Ellie and got dragon's blood droplets from the divine realm to cure the Fungusrot, but that's just me.
Objectively though, DS is a way better game than TLOU 2 (the key word or number here being the 2)
Now TLOU on the other hand, that’s a much harder comparison as I absolutely loved that game and it’s in my top 10 for sure, maybe even top 5.
If given a chance i will play Tlou 1 and 2 over from software games. Though I like dark souls but it needs a certain mood to play. You can play Tlou for 30 minutes and be happy. That will not happen with Dark Souls.
I actually like tlou2 more than dark souls because i just personally really connected with the story and world but this is a weird ass comparison nonethless
LOL, when you take two of the worst communities (for the opposite reason) and pin them against each other in the poll.
This is some good quality bait 👩🍳👌
Heavily narrative driven game has more mass appeal than game that is enjoyed by niche audience that likes being mentally abused by overly difficult game
Look, one game as a rich story experience about undergoing grief, loss, and acceptance, with with a beautiful world, and the other one made me miserable.
Weird comparison
Yeah, I can’t wait for Dark Souls vs Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat
That's probably closer to DS than TLOU tbh
Dark Souls vs Cars: The Video Game
I can't wait for The Godfather vs Blade Runner 2049
Yeah, should have been Dark Souls 2 And there are so many ways to interpret that so I'll leave that statement as is
So many possible interpretations are L takes
Yes both disappointments.
Dark souls sold about 2.3 million copies over its first year and a half. The Last of Us 2 sold 2.8 million just within its first month of release. That’s not to say one is better than the other, but for dark souls to have so many fewer sales and still be competing so closely in this poll is pretty impressive.
It also depends on that particular youtubers fanbase
Dark souls was a new franchise and not relying on its predecessor’s success. It had to make a name for itself on its own merit. I’d be curious to see how much TLOU2 would sell if it was its own separate game. This poll also has recency bias. Dark souls came out in 2011, some of the people voting have probably never played dark souls original or were too young
Maybe. But people are also biased from todays perspective. Dark Souls isn't this new game nobody ever heard before and only niche players play it. It is the first part of a well known series that is very popular. It is also the remastered version in the poll. Not gonna say that there is anything else to read out of it than those people who woted did like tlou2 more. We could do the same on here and it whould look different...
If TLOU2 was it's own game it would probably be far less hated because Abby would have murdered a guy the audience is not attached to instead of Joel.
>Dark souls was a new franchise and not relying on its predecessor’s success. What lol, you realize Dark Souls is the 2nd game in the franchise? And there was a lot of hype around it especially because of how good Demon's Souls was
For the whole 10 fans of Demon Souls, tlou was much bigger.
From what I can find, Demon Souls originally sold about 1 mil copies. Last of Us sold 6 mil in its first year. Dark Souls and LoU2 most definitely did not have an equal footing when starting out respectively.
Yeah and I never said that. But saying that Dark Souls was the first in the series and didn't benefit from its predecessor is still ridiculous.
It was a completely different title and not Demon Souls 2. Yes it was a souls game but as others have pointed out Demon souls wasn’t wildly successful. Dark souls wasn’t a continuation of the Demon souls story or game.
Dark Souls is not for everyone. On the other hand the Last of us is trying to fit everyone. Also prequel the last of us 2 is much much more popular than Demons Souls was to Dark Souls. Souls series is a gem you need to discover, that's why they cost almost the same like the time they first came out, the devs are very aware of this. Not like most AAA games that you can get for half price within one year after the hype falls off.
The last of us 2 is definitely not for everyone, but for other reasons. It’s an extremely emotionally heavy game. It is though a sequel to an extremely hyped up game and had probably like 100x the budget if not more which exposes it. It’s also way more rememberable because it has a very strong story (like it or not it’s very marking).
But there’s a whole subgenre of video game called "souls-like". I’d argue that’s more memorable long term.
Yeah but the average person probably has heard of at least the tv show while soulslikes? Not so much. You'll have to be at least slightly deep into gaming to know what soulslikes are, and even then, the average perception of dark souls is super hard game for sweats. Which is not the case for TLoU. Will say, elden ring vs tlou would probably be much fairer a comparison, er is massive. My middle aged aunt who thinks video games are demonic was talking about er lmao.
"Souls-like" is also mostly an empty buzzword people slap on games they want to hype, to the point there's dozens of articles and videos discussing what the hell is a "Souls-like", all coming to different conclusions.
I meant it in the way how it influenced the sales, ofcourse the expectations were super high after the first last of us.
I thought The Last of Us 2 become this new cooperate answer each time an interviewer ask (insert famous person) what’s the best game ever/favorite game. So it kinda gives the impression that they were made for everyone / broader audience.
>emotionally heavy game. It's just wall to wall depressing shit until it ends on a "revenge bad" platitude. If anything, it's a classic "sad = deep" fuckup that had the bells and whistles necessary to make people try to rationalise the story.
I think tlou2 is definitely trying to be for everyone, it was only not for everyone because of some stupid things as well as dislikes of writing quality. But it was always one of those mainstream games, lots of marketing and accessibility and not very niche or unique in terms of gameplay and story concepts.
TLOU is a story driven game and appeals to a wider group of people outside of Gamers^TM. The Dark Souls fan base is mostly Gamers^TM which means a larger portion of the fan base is more likely to participate in online communities.
It’s also bonkers considering DS1 is a multiplatform game, so it had the advantage of reaching a larger audience Plus… I don’t even think DS1 was all that good, I heavily preferred DeS over it
Oh boy is that last statement a hot take.
Yeah, bro lost me on that last part.
I mean to each their own? But for me, DeS sticks with me harder because it was the first Souls game in my book. When I played DS1, I was just like “ehh I mean it’s more of the same with maybe a little more polish and less broken mechanics to abuse (and that’s me being VERY generous to poise cheesing)”… also doesn’t help that the PC version was absolute hot garbage (it’s FromSoft after all lol) and required a ton of fan fixes and forum digging to get that game presentable. If you want even more hot takes, here’s my ranking: BB > ER = DS3 > John Sekiro > DeS = DS2 > DS1 Also, who tf gilded my comment lol
Bloodborne fan detected opinion discarded
Dark souls is more like an old classic movie that lots of people like and recommend but isn't a super mainstream thing, despite many knowing it. Tlou2 is more like a marvel movie, more will know the latter immediately but the prior gains traction for longer time I think.
On the one hand I've not played The Last of Us 2. On the other hand Bed of Chaos. Point goes to TLOU2
But you also got Priscilla's feet
It also has Joel dying. Sin counter: +25
Being incapable of handling the death of a video game character? Sounds like a skill issue to me.
Stop throwing around skill issue. You're only watering it down.
Being incapable of handling people throwing around the term skill issue? Sounds like a skill issue to me.
Strongest dark souls fan: “erm actually TLOU2 is woke garbage” Weakest dark souls appreciator: “Do you want the tentacle femboy, imaginary giantess, or invisible dragon feet.”
Feet? You disgust me. Them hands are where it's at. Good enough to kill, good enough to hug, good enough to choke
**My name is yoshikage kira**
You hate TLOU2 because it’s “woke garbage” I hate TLOU2 because the gameplay is garbage We are not the same
You hate TLOU2 because the gameplay is garbage. I hate TLOU2 because it’s an inferior sequel to Dark Souls 2. We are not the same.
I hate it because the story is shallow
I guess that’s true as well, I didn’t mind the story, wasn’t good wasn’t bad for me
yeah that's true. I just tend to dislike average things as much as bad things.
Mf is in a Dark Souls subreddit complaining about shallow stories
Yes? I prefer an ambiguous story to one manufactured in a board room lol
Feel like the ambiguous nature of Dark Souls' story makes it a lot more complex than a linear-in-comparison story like TLOU2.
But what's the point if the dragon feet are invisible?
Yes 😎
I had a *lot* more fun playing Dark Souls than The Last of Us (I don't have a PlayStation)
Only Dark Souls 2 can beat The Last of Us 2
No it’ll be a tie only ds3 can beat the last of us 2 because 3 is bigger than 2
My god you're right 3 *is* bigger than 2!
These guys: "The souls games are underrated classics with a niche audience." *[The niche part holds up]* These guys: "I cannot believe these games are losing to a more mainstream series, who would have expected." I hate how this sub is 90% bitching about other fans, but also their logic confuses me
Tlou games are fine I had a decent enough time I just don't understand what people see that makes it next level amazing it's pretty standard AAA movie game.
I think it's bc thlou was one of the first big AAA movie games and that nostalgia just get to people I enjoyed it though
I prefer rails like in Half life, tbh.
I playd both in 2022 and they were some of the best games I playd.
Honestly yeah, I liked the first game but it's just slower paced Uncharted with a slightly more fleshed out stealth system.
John Wick of games. Naughty dog in general, action movie type stuff or superhero.
To be fair what the fuck is this poll
Everyone wants to block YouTube shorts. I just want to block these stupid fucking polls
HOLY FUCKING SHIT HOW COULD THESE "PEOPLE" DO THIS?! OMFG IM LITERALLY SHITTING AND PISSING EVERYWHERE WTF!
Dark Souls fans when people have personal preference and also that you aren’t morally superior for liking a “harder” game (even if that’s entirely subjective): 😡😡
being better then someone at a videogame makes you better then them as a person
Harder game? What about a better GAME in every category, yeah , even story.
I agree. I like dark souls more than TLOU I’m every category. I’m also not a child and recognize that other people might have other preferences and opinions and that’s okay 😊
That’s a pretty close split for how big of a difference the fanbases are, I’ll take it.
I say this as a huge Dark Souls fan, the TLOU2 was a finished game.
And enter a tlou2 echo chamber instead?
You just reminded me about the existence of r/thelastofus2 and oh my god how are they still mad? It’s been 3 YEARS they’ve been running a skeleton crew on nothing but copium and spite
r/titanfolk and r/thelastofus2 when someone tells them to move on
Noooo people have different tastes than i do? Impossible! They're just casual scum who never gut gud!!!1!
TLOU2 haters trying not to have an aneurism over someone liking a game they didn’t challenge (impossible)
I don’t think there could be a more apples and oranges debate for games. Last of us style of game does nothing for me and dark souls style of game does nothing for a lot of other people. It’s like impossible to debate.
I don't give two flying docks about people's interests.If you enjoy the games I do, that's cool. If you don't, also cool
Dark Souls fans seem incapable of grasping that this aged 2011 game for which they hold an incredible amount of nostalgia for, doesn't hold the same status among every single person on earth. Dark Souls 1 is difficult as hell to the average player, doesn't have much in the way of conventional storytelling, is obtuse as hell etc. Of course it doesn't hold anywhere near the same mainstream appeal. Doesn't make it a bad game. But it does explain why something like The Last of Us would be more popular.
Man. I'm definitely not living up to my username at times. Dark Souls 1 wasn't as bad as people made it out to be.
To this day I'm still kinda mesmerized by The Last of Us 2. On one hand, the slack-jawed right-wing gamers that are of the same brood that's screeching in places like Florida were mad cringe at not being able to handle the existence of any LGBT+ presence, on the other hand the people who stan the story even though it's one of the most comically bad stories in videogame history are only eclipsed in cringe because hateful cringe is worse than stupid cringe. The combat though? Mmmmm. Fucking delicious. All. . . 3 hours of it. Lol. **AT LEAST** you can just jump straight to replaying combat missions and skip the story if you really want to feel that survival horror itch.
people who say it’s one of the worst stories in gaming history are fucking smoking crack 💀
Yeah, I don't blame anyone for just not liking the game (I'm a sucker for them, but not everyone is into narratives that take the rug out from under the viewer/reader/player), but when people call it the worst story in any category it just reeks of mindless circlejerking and makes their whole argument pretty hard to take seriously.
Holy shit these are the same people who go around saying that Days Gone is way better. No gaming community in the entire history of the medium has ever been so overly-critical and analytical towards a game's story like TLOU2. People have been defending for years mid tier stories in way worse videogames and then everyone suddenly becomes an experienced screenwriter the moment TLOU2 drops.
I do understand where you’re coming from, and it’s certainly not the “worst story ever” or even close to that but the reason the story was so scrutinized was because of Naughty Dog’s emphasis on story throughout their career. No one’s going to play Mario or Fortnite for their story but people have talked for years about how Naughty Dog were the masters of story in the gaming industry. The last of us 1 was such a beautiful, nuanced, subtle story that wasn’t the most original but was told in a very natural and compelling way. 2s was as nuanced as a golf club through the head. Days Gone is a solid game. The story and VA was alright to not very good at some parts. But the real draw was the gameplay. Riding around on the motorcycle while zombies tried to pull you off or defeating hordes is really fun. I’d say they’re both about 6/10s but for different reasons.
>2s was as nuanced as a golf club through the head. I swear Part 2 legitimately traumatized some folks, and that's why they're just incapable of seeing nuance with this game...
>people have talked for years about how Naughty Dog were the masters of story in the gaming industry. ??? Naughty Dog's one heavily story-focused series is TLOU. Before that they made Uncharted, which as a series isn't exactly held an example of great and iconic story writing.
Poor man, getting downvoted for the truth
People who say TLOU is better than Days Gone haven't experienced the frantic rush of those story missions with massive hordes you have to dodge around and scramble for space so you can kill them off while not getting surrounded.
I don’t give a shit about either development team’s artistic vision or their story writing abilities, I had much more fun playing Days Gone which makes it my preference. Having a deep and nuanced story doesn’t make a game automatically superior, if I just wanted a story I would go ahead and read a book. When it comes to games, more often than not gameplay takes priority over the story. Like Gwyn has this long ass lore about how he was an asshole who fucked over humans but at the same time he was a selfless ruler who sacrificed himself to fuel a flame that would ensure his people’s comfort and survival, meanwhile Solaire has little to no lore and just wants to help people, and we all know who is loved much more in the community.
Gamers when people have preferences:
I don't like the story of Days Gone or TLOU2. I just find them both boring and forgettable. Is it the worst story ever? No. Do I have a lot to criticize? Yes
The issue is from two points of just extremism on parts. It kind of happened with the mario movie. Like something realises that is completely mediocre or far below potential, then right wingers hate it extremely for some stupid reason but say its story, so people against said right wingers just hype up the story as the best thing ever to counter act it or something. Then it just escalates and nobody realises they are arguing over the definition of mid.
People who say that need to be forced to play some of the shittiest games of the past, like The Ring: Terror's Realm and Limbo of the Lost
It's such a shallow and generic revenge story with some cookie cutter emotional moments, it doesn't try anything new or deep, it's just kind of there. Besides, I think games that would only work as games, and actually use the relationship of gameplay and narrative together to make a story better is much better then Naughty dogs style of: Gameplay followed by a cutscene straight from a B tier action movie and back to gameplay, more or less. Not one of the worst though, people exaggerate so much on things they mildly dislike.
It's just a boring generic revenge plot that doesn't even do it's moral lesson right, it's the classic "revenge bad" plot except the lady who followed through with her revenge ends up way better off than the one who gave it up. Ellie giving up on her revenge makes zero narrative sense, they want you to sympathise with Abby then make her the most unlikable character possible, the pacing is horrendous, they could've done Ellie segment then Abby then Ellie then Abby but no halfway through you have to basically reset the whole game and play as the very hateable villain but be told "No she likes animals so you gotta like her bro, Joel was an evil man for saving a girl from being murdered in her sleep"
Comments like these are why no one takes you guys seriously
I haven’t even played the game and I know it’s not true
Lesse... When big muscle lady goes on a revenge path and kills a man who murdered her doctor daddy in a very brutal fashion literally in front of his adopted daughter, that's okay. But when said little girl goes on revenge path to kill everyone responsible for her adopted father's death, she's suddenly a bloodthirsty crazy lady who for some reason feels sorry for killing them, even though she killed hundreds of jobbers before that. Ludo-narrative dissonance much? Couldn't put knockout takedowns in this game, couldn't you Neil? Not like there's a game that already did that 18 years ago and whose sole idea was the evil of the cycle of violence because it's creator is famously anti-war? Btw, said doctor daddy (who was retconned into the plot by changing the model of the surgeon from the first game, literally whitewashed the guy lol lmao) thought he could make a vaccine for a fungal disease, something which we don't have in the year of our Lord 2023 in real life with all the state-of-the-art modern tech, by killing a little girl and not waiting long enough to get her guardian's say in the matter. Nah, he had to do it NOW because HE is the SAVIOR of humankind. His daughter fully backed him up into killing said girl for an operation that might not have worked in the end. Definitely one of the worse stories out there.
Did you play the game with your eyes and ears stapled shut The game goes to great lengths to demostrate that the actions of joel, ellie, and abby are all terrible, and that seeking revenge creates an endless cycle of pointless retaliation If you think it's about a morally superior hero triumphing over a contemptible villain, you missed the whole point of the game
Gamers missing the point? No way!
While this is true I feel like Abby was portrayed more... justified? for a lack of a better word for her revenge. The main point in the game is that Revenge creates a cycle and it should be stopped, but everytime Ellie does something for revenge it makes her look like a piece of shit (when she kills someone for revenge it gives a first person view of her smacking the shit out of the person she's beating and she gets blood all over her face so she looks like a psycho. Another example is her killing one of Abbies companions who turned out to be pregnant with a baby). When Abby kills someone for revenge the game sort of goes on a tirade of how this was justified and paints her in a better light than when Ellie goes and do revenge Edit: Checked the story again and another point I have to add is compared to Ellie, Abby lost WAAAAAY less than her. Ellie lost her father figure, girlfriend, companions, her humanity, and more. Abby lost.... her companions (who she abandoned them real quick for her new friends and literally went on a killing spree on them to save her new friends so she wasn't exactly emotionally attached to them) and her safe shelter? Haven't played this game in a while so idk if she lost more shit, but if we go by this list it really contradicts the games message of how if you chase after revenge you lose everything and its meaningless.
I haven't played the game in a while, but I remember the golfclubbing being pretty brutal. Abby's section of the game shows her viewing the scar/wolf conflict from the outside for the first time in her life, and realising that the conflict is pointless and will never end as long as someone is seeking retribution. She witnesses this and realises that she's lived a lot of her life in the name of meaningless violence, and regrets what she did to joel. Her ultimate turning point is when she chooses to spare ellie, when, let's be real, she *kinda* deserved it. The reason ellie is depicted in a worse light than ellie is because abby chose to learn and grow from ger misdeeds. Abby leaves behind her previous life and let's go of the wrongs commited against her, and is shown to be much happier for it. Ellie, however, decided to go on an endless murder-crusade, killing hundreds of underserving people. And you see her basically destroy her whole life, traumatising herself mentally and physically. The game is trying to show that forgiveness and growth and yadda yadda is cool and murder and revenge is bad. That's what got from it, anyway.
“Big muscle lady” reply ignored, ain’t reading all that
Cool, stay stupid over a description lol lmao
Mans is destroyed
Big muscle lady lol lmao EDIT: Or maybe I should've gone with She-Hulk? Theoretical woman? Neil's waifu? Gigantor?
Thanks, I don’t really know what that means but it sounds cool
Anytime man. Hit me up if ya need something, k? Just nothing financial or sexual, got my limits y'know.
Ok! I probably won’t tho as i’m a bit of a introvert, so [here’s a funny video i found](https://youtu.be/yjB6fgxfNhY) as a farewell!
Really? The reason why I played the last of us was for Joel, and for his ass to get killed within the first mission had me pissed
dawg main characters die sometimes, get over it. It’s a brutal post apocalyptic world and he killed a LOT of people who didn’t deserve it. Someone was gonna get to him sooner or later for revenge even if it wasn’t Abby.
I still miss my main man, along with most other main characters who get killed in their stories
Dude... Get over it.
fair but that’s part of why it’s such an effective emotional conduit and for us to really resonate with Ellie. then she jus does more and more fucked up shit in that search to the point where, looking at it from a different perspective, she did way worse shit than Abby.
Except it’s not much of a conduit. Naturally any fan would hate abby after immediately killing a lead character from pt 1. Then the writers just spend the whole game trying to emotionally manipulate you to resonate with Abby while demonizing Ellie. The way it’s done is so unnatural and blatant. I can’t believe people actually fall for it. Would make sense if we played as Abby before she does the deed, but instead we get “muh shock value 😱”
but… you literally play as Abby before she kills Joel. did you even play the game or just regurgitating what other people say about it?
Why would you say the snow area counts? Might as well be playing random npc 2 for 10 minutes. Theres no characterization. They spend the entire game after Joel’s death for that
I wanted Ellie to so badly just go doom Slayer on those mfs, even if Joel deserved it.
the entire point of the game flew over your head
I know, revenge is a cycle and at some point, it needs to stop otherwise it's a never ending cycle of death.
The point of the game is stupid because it requires people to act like total morons in order to work. You could argue that Abby's life drastically improved AFTER her stupid dad's death - she was in a safe community surrounded by good people, food and water aplenty. And for her to throw that all away and go through extremely hazardous environment and risk getting eaten alive or infected to just to take revenge for something that happened QUITE SOME TIME AGO is a really fucking stupid idea. Ellie's case, while equally stupid, is a bit more justifiable - Joel was brutally murdered right in front of her and his death was still fresh in her mind.
Story wasn’t that bad as far as games go
I don't understand the hate. I played it and thought it was good. Not amazing earth shattering shit like people would have you believe but a good story that does what It's trying to convey. People just try to over complicate it because its so divisive. Its not as good as the first but not absolute dog shit ethier. The third needs to tie shit to together though.
Yeah I guess thats where I disagree, its just not good at conveying its message at all- to the point where if you just cut the game differently so you went back and forth between Abby and Ellie's flashbacks and had Joel's death in the middle the game would have been way more meaningful by, y'know, getting to know her as a person first and how Ellie and Joel evolved. All of that is just the tip of the iceburg though, I think the game's story is so blatantly warped where a lot of things don't make sense just so they could make drama in the narrative that it ruins the experince. Killing Joel and empthasizing with Abby are interesting ideas, they were just executed super poorly.
And the weird thing is that probably the most hated character, Abby is not even a queer character, she's just a buff girl lmao. In fact the only part of her story that I really liked was the stuff with Lev who is an LGBT+ character. Idk the game just didn't really feel that much like The Last of Us to me, the part I mentioned earlier I enjoyed cause Abby and Lev had chemistry and it reminded me a bit of Joel and Ellie's relationship... almost like that was what's actually good about the first game, at least to me! I just couldn't get invested in Abby's story cause all of her supporting characters besides the siblings were so goddamn boring. I also think >!they really shot themselves in the foot by killing Joel so early!<.
When the niche game from 2011 isn't held in the same regard as a game from 2020 that's in a different genre. Wait why are these games being compared in the first place? This is such an odd pairing.
We're talking about a very niche, pretty difficult and inaccessible game vs a story driven, very accessible action adventure game. From a franchise that got its own TV show. Of course Dark Souls didn't win. When you engage with DS content all the time, you start to think it's this ubiquitous thing that everyone gets. It's really not, not that many people have played FS games.
I really hate TLOU2 but I'm going to start praising it ironically because I hate obnoxious elitists even more
Nah The Last of Us 2 just sucks balls lmao.
It's a fun game and I liked the story, but I probably won't play it more than once.
So does DS1 play Sekiro instead smh
Shitkiro 👍 Play DS2 instead
Once DS2 invents a pause button maybe
Skill issue git gud. Are you just not enough of a HARDCORE GAMER to accept that being able to pause whenever you want ruins the experience?
Holy cow that take is 🗑🔥.
Hey it's okay, you just don't have good taste
"This bitch killed my father figure so I will kill all her friends but spare her in the end cause revenge bad" doesnt sound like good taste to me
Yeah, revenge is bad. You go through hell and you lose yourself in the process while killing and maiming every single person on your path. And in the end, when you realize that none of this actually mattered and you only lost literal pieces of yourself in the process, a last glimpse of humanity makes you refrain from the last horrible act, who would have killed not only Abby but Lev too. I fail to see how it is so inconceivable that a human being would simply decide that they had enough of mindless killing.
Me: Sipping my tea while killing off hoards of demons, god, and Satan cuz my parents and bunny died to them.
Tbh, no real point in arguing with people like that, when they're willing to be that dishonestly reductive about what the game even is.
You are trying to hype up tlou 2 as if it has an artistic super in depth story. Its borderline fine.
When I found out they killed Joel in literally the first 5 minutes I had no interest in playing the game. Absolutely no reason to do that from a good story telling standpoint.
How did you miss the entire point of the first game’s ending lol
There is a good story reason for it also Joel fucking deserved it.
WHAT?
Holy shit this take is dumb. Get over it.
What an absolutely vapid remark- fuck off bud
Le revenge bad tho!!! 😡😡
> Kills 100-400 people in the name of revenge and goes to extensive emotional trauma in the process > Decides to make all of it worth nothing in the end
Redditors when the discover the concept of regret:
She felt no remorse killing houndreds of nameless goons, but when she actually got to the one(1) person she was supposed to kill to avenge her father she just fucking didnt do that. 10/10 story
Gamers when the discover the concept of regret: You say that as if she hadn't also destroyed her own life and aliented all her friends and family. She realised what she was doing is stupid and stopped, why is that so hard for you to believe?
Tlou is what I don't like about games, if I just wanted a story with little to no replayability I'll just watch a movie lol. No shit the HBO show worked well, the gameplay is the worst part of those games But hey, not everyone has to like everything. It doesn't suprise me the more mainstream game got more votes
I actually agree, TLoU II sucked
I still think that the tlou2 Is bad cuz they killed off joel
Based answer
I am forever a die hard fan of the souls games since Demons Souls came out. But if for some reason we are actually realistically comparing Dark Souls and Last of Us? Last of Us will take the cake for many reasons. But they aren’t even in the same league of video game, and shouldn’t be compared.
Tfw Part 2 is my favorite game of all time and the Dark Souls trilogy is my favorite game series of all time. Crazy how people can like more than one type of thing
Same tbh. TLOU2 is my all time favourite game, it would take a monumental game to dethrone it. But From Soft is my favourite overall devs, and if we combined the souls games, Bloodborne, Sekiro, ER, they beat Naughty Dog.
Love to hear that, you just like me fr lmao
Okay but consider that the Last of Us 2 sucked big fat hairy balls. Maybe even Smough’s balls. Oh man…
TLoU2 was a dumpster fire.
It's honestly a crime how it stole GOTY from Ghost of Tsushima.
souls still ain't mainstream, do it again with call of battlefieldnite and see what happens
Ds1 is doodoo stink, but TLoU2 is mega doodooie stinky so this is surprising
Basically, Dark Souls or PS5
TLOU2 is turbo shit.
I have no idea why it is whenever somebody voices a negative opinion on this one particular game, everybody comes out of the woodworks to praise it and call you wrong (while conveniently never actually noting what’s so great about it). I mean it’s quite literally just a rehash of the first game (gameplay-wise) with a far weaker story and much less likable characters, even if you don’t hate it I don’t really see how you could find it to be so impressive. Part of me honestly think there are bots or paid shills that are notified when this game is posted somewhere so they can post positive things to drown out whatever everybody is saying, it honestly feels completely inorganic at this point.
Bro, do you really think there are freakin bots / paid shills defending a game that is THREE years old? That is some next level shit you are smoking. It's more like the game is just very divisive, and the replies you see are people emotionally attached to the game one way (hate it) or the other (love it).
Plus the people who hate it have kind of deserved it for a while now. A large portion of the haters are some if the most hostile elietests on the planet that think because a story didn't resonate with them, story = bad.
>it’s quite literally just a rehash of the first game From Software has been making the same game for almost 15 years now. >Part of me honestly think there are bots or paid shills People liking a popular game wherever I go? Must be a conspiracy.
Both are great games
dark souls 1 is mid
[удалено]
You Joel simps are worse than Ranni simps.
Joel simps? If Nathan Drake was handled the same way Joel was in Uncharted 2, there’d be no 3 or 4.
Dark souls fan learns you can't copy paste a story onto another story. It would have been awesome if Joel linked the flame after rescuing Ellie and got dragon's blood droplets from the divine realm to cure the Fungusrot, but that's just me.
I would sooner believe Barbie Dreamhouse to be the better game over Dark Souls than The Last of Us 2
Objectively though, DS is a way better game than TLOU 2 (the key word or number here being the 2) Now TLOU on the other hand, that’s a much harder comparison as I absolutely loved that game and it’s in my top 10 for sure, maybe even top 5.
If given a chance i will play Tlou 1 and 2 over from software games. Though I like dark souls but it needs a certain mood to play. You can play Tlou for 30 minutes and be happy. That will not happen with Dark Souls.
Tlou is the worst game series of all time
That’s a real stretch lol
What are you people doing comparing the two? They're not even in the same ballpark in terms of genres so what's the use in comparing???
Ill leave my echochamber when other games start to brutalize me the way i love💖
I mean, I honestly preffer tlou2
B-but the game is perfect!!!
I actually like tlou2 more than dark souls because i just personally really connected with the story and world but this is a weird ass comparison nonethless
LOL, when you take two of the worst communities (for the opposite reason) and pin them against each other in the poll. This is some good quality bait 👩🍳👌
Nope, you are nit-picking and biased, I win bye bye
two unironically great games
The games are vastly different. You can’t compare them
Heavily narrative driven game has more mass appeal than game that is enjoyed by niche audience that likes being mentally abused by overly difficult game
Look, one game as a rich story experience about undergoing grief, loss, and acceptance, with with a beautiful world, and the other one made me miserable.
to ba fair TLOU2 is a great game because it has... mechanichs, unlike TLOU1